Is the Government Hiding Alien UAP Technology? (with Dr. Garry Nolan) | Change Agents #62

Transcript

there are operations being set up to make um parallel retrieval teams that have nothing to do with the government to get there first okay and hopefully not engage yourself in a firefight but you know they they have the means to get there first let's just put it that way how can I help how can I be useful in ending needless suffering do not be afraid of work that has no end we have to organize a social movement we have an opportunity to lead by example versus just talking hot air I think the more people in this fight the more we grow eventually you could change you the people are the ones that can make the change ladies and gentlemen welcome back to change agents an ironclad original presented by Montana Knife Company strap in we're going into outer space for this one this episode is the first in a two-part series about UAP unidentified aerial phenomenon yes we're talking about what used to be called UFOs maybe aliens maybe alien life I don't know it's a broad ecosystem and universe out there so for the purpose of this and future conversations we're calling them UAP unidentified aerial phenomena we're going to be talking about what the government might be hiding and efforts to understand the UAP obviously this area draws a lot of interesting characters so we wanted to focus on guests with credibility and positions of expertise and Authority in addition to today's interview with Stanford Professor Dr Gary Nolan we are going to release a special bonus episode with sitting lawmaker on the US House committee on oversight and accountability representative Tim burett later this week Dr Nolan is one of the world's leading immunologists and is a professor in the department of pathology at Stanford University School of Medicine he is also the executive director of the board and co-founder of the Soul Foundation the foundation's mission is to bring together experts from Academia and government to address the philosophical policy and scientific problems raised by the likely presence on Earth of UAP you know I think the best way to kick it off given what we're going to be talking about is if you could discuss the soul Foundation what it is and how you came to be involved with it so the soul Foundation is an academic organization whose intent is to legitimize the conversation in a professional manner not to make any claims about what UAP or non-human intelligences are or might be but to basically create a place where academics can come and ask the kinds of questions that academics and professionals want to ask they want to have a what if question rather than there is question and so the issue is that Society in general looks to academics for better or worse uh as the people who will talk talk about the kinds of questions that matter to them uh and will provide at the very least for policy makers and government or commercial organizations uh the war gaming questions and answers that might uh affect Human Society at large uh and the output of such an organization and an output of uh any academic organization frankly are published papers that are peer-reviewed and it's not because peerreview legitimizes the answer but peer review legitimizes the methodology by which uh potential answers or conclusions are come to so that somebody else who might be looking at well how did you Analyze This can go back to the paper and say oh well here's the methods you used here's the data you used to come to this conclusion I might disagree with your conclusion but at least I know that the data and the methods that you use to come to your conclusion are reasonable so that other people can can reproduce it but more so it's because again for better or worse both government and Society at large look to academics to spend the time asking the questions that uh matter to humanity at large and so we've done that already now with a couple of papers and uh white papers that we've put out and other papers that we're uh putting out in the future around uh what is it that government needs to do about this what is it that we need to do from the standpoint of the military uh to protect either Pilots or individuals or commercials uh um uh commercial airlines uh for the matter I just got off the line with uh somebody who's the head of a major healthc Care Organization in the United States uh to talk with uh him about mental health issues around this because there are people who for instance feel that they've seen something and they suffer what you can think of as a double trauma they both are suffering and dealing with the issue of having seen something that they don't understand uh and then when they try to relay that to friends and family they're called crazy or they're accused of being you know having a mental health issue so they you know there's nobody that they can go to talk to and we know that that's the worst case that one should ever have when you're when you're trying to relay an experience that you've had you know from my personal standpoint um I got involved in this because somebody came to me some people from the government came to me uh to ask for my help to look at Medical harm that had come to some individuals around this matter and they didn't come to me because I had any special experience in UAP or the phenomena they were doing complete Medical workups on this cohort of individuals about 100 individuals from the military and the defenses staff lishment on the IC and diplomatic Corp uh and um they DED around and they said well we want to do um blood analysis for inflammatory events uh who's the best person we can talk to and they said well you got to go talk to this guy Nolan at Stanford he has the world's most advanced instrument for uh looking at blood and giving you a detailed report on these things and and that's when they showed up in my office and asked me for my help and um you know frankly at the beginning I thought it was a joke uh that somebody was it was sort of a Candid Camera moment I was going to ask you how did they present themselves to you was it the classic suit and tie what what did they say hello sir we're from the government they yes and we're here to help you um yeah I'll I'll Ronald Reagan um so uh no they literally showed up and unannounced and said hi we're here I I represent um and I work with the CIA and the other was a def was a um uh a airospace organization uh executive and um these are the medical cases we'd like your help on um and it didn't become about UAP until about 30 minutes or so into the into the discussion and that's when I began to look around to see if there was a Candid Camera somewhere pointed at me from one of the other windows uh in the building um but you know it was what got me in intrigued was the data that they showed I mean they didn't just say hey these things happened they took out MRIs and they showed me the specific scarring within the brain that had occurred uh and then they gave me the detailed medical reports of some of these individuals and so to the extent that what they were showing me was real and it is real at least I thought it was real at the moment I said okay well this is interesting how can I help and then that's when it became a discussion at least in part about UAP um and I helped them I went out and interviewed some of the individuals personally to make sure that you know I mean I I sort of feel like you have to get involved individually about some of this I flew out to to speak with some of these individuals um and I was convinced that they had experienced something real um I wasn't in a position to validate what they saw but but their body language told me that they had experienced something and so that was pretty much the my inauguration and induction into the uh what is uh often called The Invisible College of uh academics and scientists who are working behind the scenes on the matter to understand it in a in a more um normalized way what year did the government first approach you was around 2011 I think 2011 2012 I don't remember it seems like and maybe it's I mean I remember growing up hearing stories about Roswell you know and the dish and all of these things paid almost no attention to it other than to say that I was aware of that term and it had something to do with I don't think they were calling it uaps at the time I think the blanket term was just aliens yeah UFO aliens it seems like in the past few years these conversations people are in a place where they're much more willing to have these convers ations from a serious perspective and I'm curious why you think that is is it just because of the volume of information is coming forward and it no longer can be held back is it do you think somebody behind the scenes is saying you know what perhaps it's time that we release this to the general population what do you think it is that is setting the stage in environment where people are much more open to talk about these things well I I think it's both of the things that You' said um one the volume of information that's coming out I mean and uh that matches something um where you it's it's called Uh the the aunan revolution KU and Thomas cun uh was a professor I think at Harvard who wrote this thing about the structure of scientific revolutions uh where uh as in many areas people ridicule things at the beginning they don't believe it until the data begins to build to where you can no longer ignore it uh and that the data basically says that the old model of Science of how to view things doesn't operate uh anymore and then suddenly everything changes and the new model becomes the case you know Gandhi had a similar thing first they ridicule you then they fight you then you know then you win essentially um change comes in that in in that order um so uh I think the first thing is the amount of data is overwhelming at this point that there's something worth understanding second you've had people like Schumer uh Senator Schumer Senator rounds Rubio gillibrand uh as the Senators and then a number of Representatives who've seen some of the data behind the scenes literally write legislation and Biden signed legislation in December of 2023 which talks about non-human intelligence I mean think about that for a moment in the National Defense appropriation act in 201 23 and in 2022 in 2022 they established an office in the Department of Defense to study this stuff and to collect information from across all of the organizations within the government which is huge I mean the government operations are huge in that regard so Arrow all domain anomaly re anomaly resolution office exists 50 people paid for by the taxpayer now collecting this information I could have a different set of words just talk about them we can talk about them perhaps later in the in the show um this year again there is going to be another uh Amendment put forward to redo what was wrong with the last one so here you have now three years in a row the National Defense appropriation act will have information regarding UAP first the government has admitted they exist that Havens say what they are that's fine that's science you shouldn't say what they are until you know what it is or at least you're willing to say um they admitted it exists they're putting monies towards understanding it so here you have the government has agreed Society has agreed a large portion of society agrees that there's something there so what's the Missing Link at this point the scientists the academics the academics now are frankly behind the eightball behind the curve on this uh because they haven't been allowed into the conversation because there's been this self uh censoring of academics to think that if you're involved in something like this you've gone over the deep end and I've experienced that personally at least you know as of about let's say maybe 10 years 10 to eight years ago where people would say oh Gary you're going to ruin your career for doing this blah blah I'm like whatever you know it doesn't it I mean my career is perfectly well well set um but the to your point the tables have turned uh in that now I can go give a talk at Harvard or anywhere and literally I will be introduced as the guy who talks about UAP and legitimizes it I will be asked afterwards to take selfie with other scientists because their brothers friends sisters children all know about me and they want want to talk about it I'll go out to dinner after having given a talk and rather than talk about the science I presented for an hour they want to talk about UAP so you know having a serious discussion and framing the conversation with boundary conditions about how you talk about it lets people in to talk about it in a safe space I mean I can believe whatever I want outside about what I think it is and what's going on but that's anecdote and speculation which is f fine I can have and I've had my own personal experiences and having seen things but that's not science so you set and create a separate fenced off area where anybody can walk into it and talk about it safely and have a fun conversation about what the data might mean this week on Borderland in Ironclad original Vince sits down with former CIA targeting officer Sarah Adams to discuss terrorist threats at the southern actually they were here legally because Al-Qaeda determined at the time that us student visas were the easiest visa to get and that's why they chose to get them student visas now Al-Qaeda has decided hey it's easiest just to go over the US Southern border and so they're sending terrrace Taliban has even made a slightly different um focus they've said hey since all these countries are so willing to bring in Afghans let's actually hunt down who actually at some time is a Taliban and served with the US government or the British government the German government and can go through a legal Refugee process you know into those countries and then um operate on our behalf watch 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[Music] how do the academics get out from behind that eightball if the government has as they generally do more information than they share with individuals and sure it's great that they have an entity I'm shocked that it's only 50 people given the size of our current government I'm surprised it's not 500 or 500,000 that'd be a nice way to justify a line item on a budget are those academics or are those people are they academics and are they allowed to share that information because if you academics um in the civilian sector if they're not given access to this information or objects whatever it may be they're always going to be behind the apal because they're always going to be behind the things that the government has that doesn't want to share well that's a very deep question and has a lot of moving Parts um so what is Arrow Arrow was stood up by Congress uh within the Department of Defense to collect the information that the dod thinks it has or is willing to say that it has and then to present that information to Congress so arrow is like in a way an auditing group whose role is to just collect information and tell Congress what it is that Congress is spending money on so you can think about it as that so 50 people who are meant to collect data and then their role is to resolve the cases which is strange because some of the cases are not res solvable um in terms of that well we see stuff moving in ways that it's not supposed to move at least as far as we understand how how physics operates and so um until they resolve something it remains unknown but they're never willing to say that well this is an absolutely measured object by 10 different radar systems and you know because it didn't land and Shake our hands we can't say it's not an Ali it's that it's an alien or that it's something else yeah so um it's a kind of weird uh operation but you know your other point was why aren't there 500 or 5,000 people well there actually are behind the scenes working on this stuff right at least that's what you would conclude if you speak to people like David grush or Carl Nell or half a dozen other people that I know some of whom literally work on the programs that they claim are really reverse engineering hidden within black programs this is an interesting structure of how it's How It operates you have the open budget which of course has a lot of top secret information of things that are being done then there's the black budget and the black programs which are barely discussed and are hidden under very abstruse and abstract names and then literally the way that this seems to operate is that within the black programs there are subsections and people who are operating on the so-called reverse engineering right and but even the black programs don't know that that's what these people are working on so it's layered within levels of uh special access programs that are nearly impossible to understand and this is where you know David grush came forward and others have come forward as whistleblowers um to say the money is being misdirected they're lying on how it is that the money is being spent now this should infuriate anybody in the public to think that your taxpaying your your taxes are going towards programs which you don't understand how the money is being spent first of all I mean for all you know it's being spent and going into somebody's pocket and they're buying a yacht right so maybe you should know that the money is actually being spent or they they're not buying you know $500 toilet seats yeah right so there's that kind of auditing that needs to go on but then let's say that some of this stuff is real right okay so is the money being wisely spent to understand what the technology might be right and is it only being spent to determine whether or not it can be used as a weapon or are there efforts and this is where my interests come in are there efforts to understand the technology in ways that it helps US economy first right are there in are there discoveries about how technology or instrumentation might be created that could be used for legitimate public commercial purposes right for the United States first and then for the world I mean look I'm I I am a patriate right down to my cells I want to see this work for the United States first because I think the United States is a Force for good in the world so that's what I want to see to make sure that the money that we're spending is being done not just for military purposes and I'm fully supportive of the military I'm fully supportive that we need to have a strong military and use it for that first um but then when it's not obviously usable by the military that doesn't mean you keep it like a dragon's horde of gold uh there might be ways that you can use it publicly to help Humanity at Large so for instance the National Defense appropriation act last year uh one of the provisions within the UAP amendment was to establish a semi-public board of scientists and historians and uh other academics that would oversee uh whether or not given information around this subject matter remain secret for good and legitimate reasons or whether it goes into the National Archives I made public um and my point was that's a little too binary you know that maybe there are things that legitimately need to say public or need to say private because you're not sure that making it public is a good idea or maybe there's stuff that's on the edge of utility for public use that you could create a public private partnership where investors or the outside could put money in to bring in real scientists I mean not that there aren't real scientists in the defense department but they're not the kinds of you know amazingly forward-looking thinkers that might be required to uh understand advanced technology that came from somebody else's intelligence yeah so you know for instance I mean there's lots of great people at all kinds of organizations around the United States that are truly the leaders in their area that are not being used uh in these uh claimed reverse engineering programs why not well you know why cuz a a lot of them couldn't get under their current regime the clearances to study the stuff so maybe we need to create a separate organization not funded by the government because the last thing I want is more money from the taxpayer to go into this but funded by the commercial sector where the commercial sector gets rights to the technology should something come of it so it then becomes a z Z sum game for the government because the government always works on a zero sum if I'm taking the money for something else it's coming from somebody else's pocket so let's not play that game and get into those kinds of fights let's create a third lane within which uh the right people on this UAP board put the uh put basically the ideas that could be valuable to society uh into and then bring in other scientists again to legitimize it I can tell you up front that if we had such a thing and I walked out and said here's the steering wheel from one of these craft I'd have half of the physics department at Stanford or the mechanical engineering department or the electronics department at Harvard who will come in and say how can we help understand this they'd be breaking down your door to get involved in that exactly you know I mean I gave a talk um um in the the salt organiz ation which is um Alex Alex cus and um Anthony scaramucci's um investment Fund in Manhattan probably about 1,200 uh high-end investors who were there they were riveted by this subject matter uh Carl Nell gave one just last week at the same organization again riveted by it um so the investors Community is actually as much a part of the push at this point uh to validate this I mean look at what's happening with AI right I mean two years ago Ai and the thought of it was science fiction now it's a near trillion doll opportunity for the US economy yeah how much weight do you put into the whistleblowers and the information that they are presenting coming forward and I say that through the lens of just me as a person I want us to not be alone in the universe because I first off I barely graduated high school so I have a very limited understanding of math but I feel like the universe is large and I feel like from a statistical perspective to think that we're the only people out here on this spec of whatever we're on is unlikely again no Mastery of Statistics but it's not I I'm not scared of not being alone in the universe to me it it sounds like if we were not alone that's less plausible than if somebody else was out there yeah I mean yeah I mean first the statistics work in let's say our favor that uh we're not the only ones I mean there's a thing in math called basian inference and priors that you know a a prior truth is enough to say that the truth can happen again right is basically a simple way Layman's way of of putting it you can assign a statistical probability to that so the statistical probability of Life existing in the universe right now is 100% so the question is whether or not it happened again elsewhere and there's more than enough data to suggest that in fact we came from uh seedings from the it's called panspermia this notion that uh life actually probably started elsewhere and floated our way and seated itself as uh as plank in or something on our on in our oceans um so but there's also more than enough time given the age of the universe that a civilization could have Arisen on the other side of the Galaxy and even by conventional Rockets uh make its way all the way to us it would have taken about two or three billion years and not necessarily they would have lived that long but they could have you know driven their operation with computers and their own form of advanced AI that would land somewhere nearby plant a seed and say well our job is done so you don't have to you don't have to imagine you know super luminal warp drive to get here or nor do you have to imagine that the things that are here are in fact the ones that sent the rocket in the first place um it's well within the capability and of time and statistics to to to get here what do you think it would take you know I mentioned the the whistleblowers that have come forward I think the one Lynch pin for a lot of people is they can discuss the programs that they have either been directly involved with or peripheral but the one thing missing as you mentioned to use your example is the steering wheel even though I feel like Advanced societies would probably have moved on Beyond a steering wheel I like that analogy because people get it what that is the one thing that none of the whistleblowers have and I think that is the one bridge that is keeping that that hasn't been crossed by people because they don't have that visceral evidence to actually look at the leap of faith yeah I agree and so that's what's currently being worked on is how do we get this done in a legitimate manner so that it's not just an anecdote and a story and so there's you know a few ways to move that conversation forward legally I'm not advocating that anybody basically sneak anything out the back door um there's one legal way to do it is to go out and look for the evidence ourselves right the stuff that uh is obtained uh or claim to be obtained is in the possession of the government because they got their first how does they always seem to get there first though is it detection before it impacts we have an amazing detection system okay satellites that you spent billions and billions of dollars on putting up when stuff goes Ary they get there first uh they really do um and so one of the first problems many in the public make or one of the mistakes they make is alerting the government first PA Z call it's a yeah so um you know you know you you do that you think you're doing the right thing but you know there are operations being set up to make um parallel retrieval teams that have nothing to do with the government to get there first okay and hopefully not engage yourself in a firefight but you know they have the means to get there first let's just put it that way um now the second point is um observational work that's being done by the lik of avobe and the Galileo project right where um right I might not have a piece of Hardware that I can show you but I have legitimate measurements on objects uh collected by multiple simultaneous sensors uh that I can write a science paper on and is is as irrefutable as anything done in any other Arena of science right so that's that I think is the second part and then the third part is the UAP board that will be hopefully set up with the new legislation again being put forward by Senator Schumer again um and rounds it's a bipartisan it's not the Democrats or the Republicans it's bipartisan because they have seen enough behind the scenes to say that look we need to get this out um and so if we can and legitimize bringing that out then that would be a good thing that would answer the question I agree what's your what's your best guest guess hypothesis um of what the government or the Pentagon is currently in possession of um well it's it's it's anecdote again um but it you know if you believe the people like David grush and Carl Nell Eric Davis and some other people that I know personally uh they're in possession of a craft multiple craft and we're not the only ones I mean I think we're actually I I think this is this is what should scare people what happens if China gets to it first it's pretty clear they it's not a us thing they don't show up in the United States only so if China and Russia have them or God help us um Iran and they get access and understanding to what the technology means first um we might be in a little bit of trouble what uh based off your experience with some of the people that have come forward there's a couple things I've heard about uh crash sites and materials potentially being found at those crash sites and also unexplainable or strange abilities of these crafts can you kind of unpack from what you have heard and again I understand it's anecdotal through other people but what you've heard the capabilities or the things that have been found that again lead us down this path towards this obviously didn't originate on Earth um Metals with extraordinarily uh hard and heat transmissive capabilities right that are near superconductors of heat if not electricity um that's probably the one that I know ones I know the most of um engineered materials that seem to be engine neared at the atomic level uh that are um people who have called them metam materials I mean there's one of them that's very public uh that I'm not sure about the Providence of or the capability of but there's others that I'm aware of that uh you know people just don't understand first how it is it that they could make something like that how would it be made because it was found at a time when we couldn't make something like that and it is structured in a way that I mean it's even today difficult to understand how some of these things are structured and made um and so uh I mean that's that's what I know about the other things I just I just should be careful what I say because they're given to me under the information has been given to me under confidence not under any secrecy agreement y per se but just under confidence and I just don't want to have them call me up and say why did you talk about my stuff public because now people are going to know what it is and who I talk to fair enough and actually I was going to ask you this when you were talking about the initial people you went and spoke to about their experiences what was your head space before sitting down with them were you skeptical did you go into it just with as big of his open mind as possible and then how did you feel leaving those experiences um good question uh well I mean obviously I went because I thought there was something intriguing here um and I was like well you know if what they are saying is true then it could be important and so that's generally how I approach my science if the hypothesis is correct it's worth the time to investigate it and so um what I came back from those meetings with was the sense that those people were not lying so I came back with okay the story that was told to me by the people who said it was you know that this thing had happened to this individual the individual confirmed it and I'm a very good read of body language um and so these people were either extraordinary Liars or they were extraordinarily mentally Disturbed they showed no other indication of being mentally Disturbed so I can only accept that what they told me was a real experience um and so you know and having you know now met with or talked with a couple of dozen such individuals who are otherwise of sound mind uh I'm like okay well there's you know if there's if it's not non-human intelligence then it's a phenomena that needs to be understood because it's sort of a a yian collective unconscious event that needs to be understood from a psychological standpoint it's you know there's there's two kinds of questions in science um that you can categorize one is What's called the Las Vegas question where if the answer is yes you win if it's no you can waste months or years of your life okay right where it's kind of like it's a high value win but if you're wrong you know you just waste um but sometimes there's just a way that you can reformulate the question so that it's interesting no matter what and that's called the Zen question where the answer is interesting no matter what so this is an this is where we are now with this issue UAP is a Zen question it's interesting no matter what it's either an indication that we are not alone in this universe there's something else here that is different in intelligence than we are um or a different level or we don't understand the nature of reality such that we are observing this sort of stuff on a regular basis at least our Consciousness seems to perceive it um and but we're perceiving it and thinking of it as UAP where in fact it might be something else that we simply don't understand but it's certainly happening right so it's I mean so that's where we are there is something happening what Remains the question is how do we explain it right and that's where I am and that's where sort of circling back to the sa Foundation is how is it that academics who love to sit around and just chatter about this kind of stuff and and write papers or have conferences around it and hash it out to to give it at least a patina of legitimacy so that other people can come in and offer their opinions it's I I often say it's not the conclusion because conclusions can very easily be proven wrong um I can say it's for aliens from alpha centuri well you're wrong it's actually aliens from Zeta reticuli right so don't come to a conclusion but if I can convince you that the D data is legitimate and correctly collected then you and I can have a conversation about what does the data mean right and so it's a philosophical Twist of how you look at the information people say all over Twitter where there's no evidence of course there's evidence but the evidence is not a conclusion don't think that because I say there's evidence that I'm coming to a conclusion that it's an alien all I'm saying is the evidence is legitimate and needs to be explained and if you're going to say it's a weather balloon or it's a weather phenomenon or it's a drone fine where is your data and methods that prove it just because it could be a drone doesn't mean you have dismissed the data as real because you haven't proven that it's a drone just like I haven't proven it's ET right and so that's how you need to equivocate and equalize the answer system ladies and gentlemen today's episode is also brought to you by Mountain tff it's a 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monthly plan to get your first month absolutely free after your 14-day free trial that's 6 weeks free to dive in test the waters the programming and make sure it's actually for you what are you waiting for you can change your life today you ready for the mountains the mission and just life in general [Music] I was jumped a few years ago uh at a gas station what are some like easy to use uh self-defense techniques what is the most cost effective way to make sure my home is secure what would happen if there was a global internet or cellular outage uh what is your suggestion for comms what should I do if I hear shots ring out or what I should do if there's a major terrorist attack how is your faith tied in to being a protector is there a moral case for taking a life what is your recommendation on critical EDC what should I have what's the best should I do what does that look like what would you recommend is there anything I could [Music] do I also think people would be better served if they could become a little bit more comfortable just saying I don't know I mean the history of our species has been you know it seems as if we always have a higher station of what we think of oursel than our true understanding whether it be people convinced that the Earth was the center of the solar system or the Earth was flat or medicine to relieve headaches would drill holes in your head which maybe that does work I don't know I'm glad we have ibuprofen but it's you know with it you give it enough time and you look back you're like huh yeah we probably didn't have all the data on that one or maybe we just weren't Advanced enough to understand what it is that we were looking at so saying I don't know is okay scci the best scientists are the ones who can say that I don't know rather than just you know you know offering their opinion as if it's you know as if it's more legitimate because because you've achieved something in one field doesn't mean that you're legitimate in another field you know I mean I it was funny I was walking my dog this morning playing with them in the dogs playing with them in the front yard and thinking about this exact matter in fact thinking I'm dealing with stuff that they couldn't even possibly understand I have a perception of things that they don't possibly have you go even further down to ants you know ants can't possibly understand Tik Tok right they couldn't even the concepts are just you know and and they don't even have a sensory apparatus to see the world that we do but from their point of view they're like well what they're that that's impossible that's fantasy so imagine that there's another level of reality that we're just not perceiving that something else lives within uh that you know they have a perception of things that we just don't half the country actually unrelated to UAP believes that religion right Catholicism you name your religion they believe that there's a level of reality where Souls go that is different than the reality that we live in so that doesn't mean that this is a religion it just means that people have already formulated structures of how the universe might be operating where there are levels of intelligences that could have a perception of things that we don't understand and so you know just think about it in that way that there is uh you know that maybe there's ways of transmitting information up in some to use the for lack of a better word a Quantum realm or another dimensional aspect that we don't appreciate that somebody else a thousand years from now a million years from now would understand how to operate I mean just 100 200 years ago nobody could possibly understand that I could pick up this little black box here and have a conversation with somebody on the other side of the planet yeah video or voice just by pointing if you know Hey Joe right and and so how does and and that's only 200 years imagine what we'll do assuming we don't you know blow ourselves up or otherwise ruin the planet um what we would be in 50,000 years or a million years incomprehensible yeah we won't even be able to talk to ourselves back here from 50,000 years from now assuming we sort of continue on our trajectory in a positive sense and that kind of Loops back to something else you said that it' be nice to know that we're not alone it actually is quite hopeful to think that there's another civilization that made it past that you know past the precipice the cliff of Apocalypse uh that we all think that's the stage of monkeys with nuclear weapons yeah exactly yeah call us I call us if you've seen any my other podcasts I call us uh the angry monkeys and and you know why would an advanced intelligence show up here and land on the White House lawn with a bunch of angry monkeys you would no more likely do that than you would walk into the middle of a troop of baboons you know fighting over an orange yeah what's the theory among your academic friends in this circle say there's an advanced technology from another world that has the ability to travel through space and time and they can get to planet Earth why do they keep crashing so much um they have the ability to get here but it seems like Earth really trips them up sometimes well I mean okay well maybe the advanced technology is even in and of itself unstable okay right consider that as as advanced as it is it still occasionally has a mishap let's say that we have means to bring them down and let's say that some of the things that are brought down were brought down purposefully let's just let's just let's just say yeah hypothetically hypothetically um and because they're unstable you know I mean let's just think about that for a second here you have a device which at least our best understandings of how it could operate from an academic standpoint it's warping space right so some of the best theories about how this works I know it sounds Star Trek and Star Trek was maybe ahead of his time or something or who knows uh but some of the best theories from physicists who legitimately talk about this somebody your audience could go look up the aluer drive uh a uh Mexican physicist who sort of started it off and came up with the right field equations that would suggest it was possible but the amounts of energy required are impossible to access right people have brought down the levels of energy required to um something you know still outside of our capabilities but not astronomically impossible um okay but you're warping space maybe all you need is an electromagnetic pulse of sufficient energy and that would just disrupt the field um you know I mean look it doesn't doesn't take much more than a blast of wind to push a car off the road yeah so you know similarly maybe a a blast of the wrong electromagnetic energy or a lightning strike uh would bring the thing down who knows that's the first part um about it um there's also evidence that let's say evidence EV again people are going to misquote me evidence does not equal a conclusion evidence is just the raw material for a hypothesis um there's evidence that whatever it is that we're dealing with does not all comport to a common um command structure it's not one thing it seems to be many things many things that might be in tension with each other think of you know in the crudest sense um the colonial powers of the 16 1700s England uh Spain France the Netherlands Portugal all fighting with each other uh for the raw materials of the planet now I'm not saying that we're raw materials planet Earth is such and that we're being fought over by other things but that these things seem to be not happy with each other at least there's evidence of that interesting do you think along those lines that there's even a chance that the craft that we're seeing are actually from terrestrial origin but they are under there you know people heard about stealth technology about a decade after it rolled out whether it's the you know f17 or the B2 do you think there's any chance that what we're seeing is actually terrestrial but just unreleased to this point some of it might be but um you know the the theory behind how the craft that are being observed or operate just doesn't exist in current understanding of science so really what you're talking about is a par is almost parallel civilizational capability right where somebody has discovered Concepts which is fine if they did and they're using them but they would have had to have discovered them now nearly a hundred years ago because these objects were seen as early as the early 1900s so unless you're talking steampunk uh you know capabilities it's you know it just didn't it didn't happen in the Victorian age uh and then shortly thereafter I mean these things were seen as long ago as you know I mean contemporary and we think of it World War II the Foo Fighters right and the things that were seeing then having capabilities that we ascribed to uh Nazi Germany and Nazi Germany ascribed to the US uh defense department and of course neither had had such capabilities so no but the alternative is that it's not aliens at all you know which is interestingly it's it's one of the sort of disinformation approaches that the dod uses to um sort of sweep the whole idea under the rug say we have no evidence that Al it's aliens what happens if it's not aliens what happens if it's something that's been here all along you know I mean here's an for instance uh there is a parallel um uh hominid called homon NTI that you might have heard of uh it it had it was 3 ft tall it had developed fire and uh paintings and burial rights a 100,000 years before Homo sapiens did H they somehow got wiped out probably Homo sapiens came along and wiped them out but they were doing stuff that we thought was only capable of being done by humans 100,000 years before we showed up absolute truth go look up I think it's called the cave of stars it's a Netflix series um about this uh area so what happens if something else what happens if I mean this is speculation what happens if the dinosaurs before that meteor hit uh had already developed some kind of a technology and decided that for the several hundred thousand years that um the Earth was uninhabitable after the meteor strike uh in the you know in the um Caribbean Basin um went underground and decided Well it's better underground anyway we're down here let the planet do what it does and then they became you know what it whatever it is that we're seeing what happens if they created their own Ai and the AI you know not in a Skynet sense but otherwise helped them along and took over I mean yeah we've created in the last three minutes the next level of the Marvel Cinematic Universe at worst like given people enough material yeah I mean what are we gonna be in 10 years I mean look at I don't know how much you use chat gbt and all these AIS they're amazing and I use them to understand them because my children were using them and had a better understanding than I did and I I don't even know what what does Humanity look like if that evolutionary scale from a tech perspective continues on the pace that it's on I I have no idea I mean we are not going to have be able to have conversations with you know our grandchildren uh because they are going to be so Changed by what AI does so all you need as a civilization is to reach that level of Competency which we did frankly in about 500 years you know I mean there was yes there was 5,000 years of math and capabilities by the Assyrians and the Babylonians and the Chinese and this and the groups in the Mayans Etc they knew it but something happened about a thousand years ago in the western civilization that put together accounting and Math and Science and rationalism all together in one and boom we just took off and so in less than 500 years we've gone from huts and mud mud huts and caves essentially to AI capability um and uh so with AI and then with AGI and then ASI general intelligence and super intelligence our understandings and capabilities are going to just basically escalate in ways that we can't even fully appreciate I can't even appreciate it so um all you need is a civilization that gets to that level of Competency and you become unfathomable unfathomable right I mean and so SEI just as an example SEI is looking for stuff out there and looking for radio signals how stupid is that I'm sorry how stupid is it to be spending 20 3040 million looking for radio signals we don't even emit radio signals anymore with a capability or a strength capable of so there was like this 100-year window where we were emitting radio signals and now everything is by fiber optics yeah you know so you know so you're looking at all this stuff and so the statistics are you're never going to see anything CU it's like a micro unit of the length of time that you can either look at a star and see a radio signal or not because we can't look at the whole universe at once we can only point it at certain stars and what happens if we've already decided whatever the civilization is to move beyond the star because we don't need the star anymore we can go live in Intergalactic space what do you think would happen if whatever president was in office to try to make it as apolitical as possible strolls out to the Rose Garden he's like listen Okay in the clearest of languages we are not alone and we are about to show you what we have recovered and what we have been working on what do you think the impact would be on society um about one week of drama uh and then another week of how are you going to use this information for us and then people will go back to putting bread on their tables that's really what I think is going on I mean it' be like it's hard to argue against it I think I think it would make our society or Humanity I I would hope that it would ground us a little bit more like hey maybe we're not the top of the pyramid that we always think that we're at maybe you know it just a greater sense of what we exist in as opposed to always thinking we're the center of our own Universe well that's exactly what I've said before is is it would make us both small smaller and larger at the same time um smaller because we realize we're not the center but larger because we realize that we're part of a larger community and I would be looking for mentors I mean I'm looking for people who've achieved something I mean I am you know I'm a good scientist I I know what I'm good at but I always love being around people who are smarter than me in areas that I have nothing to do with they're even smarter than me in the area I think I'm in because I want to be I want to be not the person who is right I want to know what is right at least scientifically you know knowing truth um and I think that somebody else that might have achieved something I one of the things I tell my students who want to start I've started a number of companies successful companies and uh spun out of my lab and I tell my students you know go find people who know more than you because they can tell you not the things that you should do necessarily but the things that you shouldn't do yeah don't waste your time here yeah because the shouldn't do there's so many more ways to kill yourself than there are to survive that is so true almost unlimited exactly so you know finding people who have that experience the wisdom of what happens when the rubber meets the road that it sounds good in principle but when you actually get out there and apply it in the real world and it doesn't operate the way you thought it should I mean that's the learning experience that's what at now age 63 I feel like I have a bit more of and you know when you re as you get older you always say to yourself oh I wish I knew this when I was 20 yeah what what would I have done if I knew this when I was 20 so I think the value then of that experience and the my purpose at least a teacher or a professor is okay well I can't be the 20-year-old but I can teach the 20-year old yeah well and maybe that's a good way to to bring this to a close too and be respectful of your time where would you point people towards for people who are curious they don't know what to believe maybe they don't even know what they believe but they want to find more information do you have any references or resources that you would Point people towards to at least start that Journey not that it's necessarily an end state but a good entry to it yeah well I mean um I would look at you can start at the soul Foundation website I wouldn't go to wiki Wiki's been contaminated uh terribly by groups that uh just fight over you know whether or not a Comm should be here or there uh I wouldn't use Wiki as your as your Source um there's going to be an announcement of a disclosure group uh that I'm a part of coming up I would go look on uh Ryan graves's Americans for safe Aerospace um which is basically uh under pinned by uh the American Society of aeronautical Engineers uh Ryan was one of the pilots who saw one of these objects and has made it his purpose in life um you know there's some very good books by jacqu Val uh especially passport to Magonia uh and a couple of others um and one is another one of his is called wonders in the sky and again it's not that he's presenting conclusions he's presenting the data wonders in the sky are incidences that have occurred back as many as you know 5,000 years ago all meticulously collected uh and chronicled uh from libraries around the planet and things that people had seen as long ago as you know several hundred or thousand years and again it's just data just collect that kind of information Richard Dolan a historian who writes uh about this uh UFOs in the National Security State he has he's just so again meticulous about it Leslie Keane wrote uh a large book as well about UFOs Pilots governments and the military um she's got some really good books on it um you know those are the you you and again just to finish it off you you can't summarize this in a five-minute elevator pitch it's just not it's way too complicated read the books by um by David by David Max sorry John Mack the Harvard psychiatrist who basically studied so-called abduction phenomena he came to the conclusion is I don't know what this is but it's it's a Zen question it's interesting no matter what these people seem to experience it if you want to look if you're if if documentaries are your thing on Netflix uh would look for um James Fox's moment of contact uh about an event that occurred in Brazil in vinia Brazil I mean just you know dozens of interviews that he did with the people there of a crash of some sort um and then I forget the name of the of the U movie but it's about an event that occurred in Zimbabwe at a children's uh at Elementary School um the Ariel school I think it's called the Arial phenomenon a r i e l Ariel the the the angel the angel Ariel uh the Ariel school um of these six and six to 10 year olds saw this craft land in their schoolyard in a field nearby and they saw things and uh it's actually not just the video document of the interviews that were done with the children at the time but now 30 years later going back to the individuals some of them and saying how did this affect you and do you still believe what you saw and again it has to do with reading the body language of the children and a and John Mack went and interviewed these children um and uh you know uh 60 children all telling the same story and drawing pictures and and so again it's it's evidence the and you have to collect this and realize that you can't put it into a single box of what it is that Hollywood tells you aliens might be or what a non-human intelligence might be and that's why we've changed the terms unidentified anomalous phenomena it's not unidentified flying objects anymore right you generif it non-human intelligence because we're not going to say it's aliens because aliens implies something from another planet somewhere maybe it's something called ultraterrestrials that's something that might have co-evolved with us here or some other form of intelligence that doesn't need to exist with matter who knows you know it the whole idea of academics is to be able to speculate and to shine a light into corn Corners where you otherwise might not look because it's fun and that's what I like to do I mean that's my whole purpose in this I like problems that I can't solve because they're like catnip to people like me perfect that is actually it that's the perfect ending for it uh Dr Nolan thank you so much for your time I really appreciate it thank you very much this was very fun [Music] I hope you enjoy today's episode and I hope at the minimum it causes you to sit back and question our place in the known universe