Episode 13 - Dr Stanislav O'Jack

Transcript

[Music] welcome once again to the official mufon podcast i'm your host richard beckwith tonight my guest is my dear friend dr stanislav ojak he is the greatest ufo and parapsychological researcher you have never heard of dr ojak attended nine different universities over the course of his life he possesses numerous degrees including a bs in mechanical engineering and m.a in architecture and design and a phd in clinical psychology he has worked closely with the likes of dr william tiller professor emeritus at stanford university and co-founder of the institute for noetic sciences he was with hal put off russell targ and ingo swan at the stanford research institute for the now infamous psy experiments that led to the development of the cia's remote viewing program he conducted research projects for a number of governmental agencies including the cia among them a project to seek out identify and cultivate psychically gifted children i met stanislav many years ago when i was doing a lecture on ufos and the nature of reality he introduced himself to me after my talk and we have been close friends ever since that time tonight i am very proud to welcome my dear dear friend and mentor dr stanislav ojack i want you to tell me about your background about your educational background well it's quite extensive in the sense that i kept changing professions i have a background eastern michigan university in mechanical engineering and i worked for a hoover ball bearing company mostly in doing statistics to spend more time with him on a freaking calculator and then i entered the university of michigan to study architecture and design worked with different architects i had the good fortune to meet frank lloyd wright which was a great experience for me then i changed to industrial design cranbrook academy of art and at that time i was involved in entering different undergraduate competitions with had a good fortune to take first place and won several other competitions and while they heard i was doing architectural models i did one for mr yamasaki the one who had designed in 20 hours that went down 911. after that i went into education and i was a head master of a private school to christian murray and spent a year there then i went into teaching i went to broadfoot two years lobby taught in college level and age 46 i decided none of the professions really appealed to me on long-term basis so i returned to school that age age 46 and received a bama and phd in clinical psychology at that time i was involved in some strange photographic experiences with my cameras i met dr william tiller at stanford university as a result of that meeting of being calm but i was involved in a researcher called subtle energy for several years during which time i had the opportunity to meet people like yuri geller which was a lot of fun and from that point i start writing mostly experimental writing to attempt to determine if i was satisfied with psychology and was i satisfied with subtle energy then i became involved in 19. 74 when i was studying psychology in ufos because i had an experience in 1966 and harbor michigan the experience with ufo that was pretty much made fun of by our government dr hardik but later becoming a strong believer in ufos since then i had 10 different conferences one relative to my licensure i'm a licensed mental health worker in wyoming in colorado i have good fortune to meet people so just stay in rome and i got down the line work with stan and uh attended many ufo conferences here in wyoming sponsored and directed by dr leo spring now you say you became interested in ufos because of an experience that you had 1966 can you tell me about that yes i was driving from california to another mission to visit my father and my brother and my son and i'm about halfway between jackson michigan and ann arbor they're separated by about approximately 40 50 miles about halfway towards ann arbor which is driving east i saw something in the sky as a youth at age 14 i became a member of the civil air patrol all i wanted to do was fly this very much and at that time i became really involved in uh theosophical studies too so there's a lot of spiritual and paranormal interests and as i was driving along to ann arbor i saw this spot in the sky you know i just looking at it to identify the configuration because when i in a similar level to him also i thought it's the army air corona 16. he had to be able to identify about 200 silhouettes so i looked at it and at that time in no way would be a helicopter because or helicopters were not advanced at that time it was quite a large arm strength about i'd say 2 000 feet up it wasn't very high and i couldn't figure the configuration because they couldn't see wings it wasn't a chopper book was stationary and i had a radio one because i tried to listen to music and i was looking at that object wondering what it might be i thought i kept moving my head it might be a spot on the windshield and also it just went from my right to the left towards ann arbor and dexter michigan and i was stunned without you that's right i can't imagine what can move that fast well the radio was on and suddenly was interrupted by newt's gas and a flying saucer had been cited by various highway patrolmen and it landed in the what they call the marshland of dexter michigan which i thought was humorous because there's no marshland in dexter there's some small lakes and i used to go there for water skiing i've not done that hard michigan and that was the end of the program and i thought since i'm staying it was until later years that i heard about it again because nothing was really printed up at that time that was my first exposure the next exposure was years later about 1984. uh i'm a stepfather to two blind daughters so i'd drive back to east or fly back east and help them enter uh college and also for breaks i could pick them up or at the end of the semester i'd bring them back home and i usually sleep on airplanes uh it gives me a time for rest and but this time when i was waiting for the the plane i went to the little shop they would sell books and candy bars i always like to watch have a candy bar i picked up a book which i normally don't do it said somebody ufos so i thought i'd read it so i read it on a plane it was about leo sprinkle and one of his colleagues at least that's how identified his name was pat mcguire pat mcguire owned at that time a ranch north of the lyramidia i think about 18 miles and he was his ranch was off highway 30.

on to the turkey marine road actually which is 3 40 going down dunk of this so when i entered when i went i decided to attend my first ufo conference so i went to the uphold conference and met dr little sprinkle which i didn't know who i did not know at that time and i asked him what's this thing about pat mcguire and all this he said if you'd like to meet up i'll make arrangements so i met with pat mcguire and his wife pat i think at that time maybe about 45 years old and his wife of course she's early 20s they had two children and we met a restaurant in laramie and i asked him about uh his ranch and my dad read this book and i want to substantiate it he said it's true he said the aliens land on this property frequently he had a few thousand acres of a very large ranch they had and he told that's a story where he tried several times to find water you know drooling that's what forced cattle and farming and could not find any water and then also these aliens show up in ufos so he made what he called a deal or bargain with them if they would show them where to find water they could use this property freely so they marked a spot they drilled and found water water after uh many many attempts and not fighting them so he told me i asked him permission to go to this property because i wanted to visit the property he said sure one day to do it because their government is taken away from me is i can't begin to tell you that i'm not bad with the us government or some members of their government i use the expression black ops but with something in that nature it was very suspect and i wasn't sure if this guy was delusional but this was real so i thought i'm going to go out there and look at it so the noontime break i thought oh what during the lunch break so i don't want to miss any part of this ufo stuff which remember this is my first exposure and the last session i studied just before noon was where people talked about their experiences but you can't ask questions and there's uh no photograph photography wrist pipe and i was listening to people oh we saw these people are loonies i mean i wasn't impressed at all and a couple sell possible and as i walked out two of the ladies that were there one about 2017 29 and 30 approached me and asked that he could talk to me because we have name tags mine's a doctoral jam so she said they said when they were young and maybe sixth and ten years old they had friends that they would meet out in the fields because they're pretty uh remote in that area i can't think of name that highway but so when it goes west and up over the top there's a lake you come down to the saratoga and they talked about the playmate they had was very strange looking and then one day the youngest one disappeared she was gone for a week there was panic they couldn't figure out what happened i thought she was kidnapped then she shows up again and it's just perfectly healthy but she's perfectly healthy until now she's aged i say 25 to 26 of my minute and the reason they want to talk to me is she's married trying to have a baby and couldn't get pregnant so she had an exam and found a uterus had been removed surgically when she was a child and at that point i said oh it must be talking about aliens things that nature yes we want to talk to you you're a psychologist you're here so i wanted to share with you at this point we're at the ranch so we drove around like the ranch there's a dirt road off that i think it's 3 40 going north and have found the mcguire's house is actually uh what do you call its factory homes and have a large light up there so we looked around and drove back so we got back i went to my session and i never saw them again i wondered what are going to happen to him so i plan to go that night i'm going down that ranch because mcguire doesn't own it tomorrow so i'm out but i'd say near at 7 8 o'clock uh i was going to take off and go to the ranch again i'm driving my subaru and a fellow who was a chiropractor i haven't seen for years shows up he has no interest i didn't know he had interest in us folks in the first place but he heard somehow he heard i was there so that's what if you could spend some time with me i saw not realize that i have something i have to do he said what i thought well since he's here to uphold conference i can mention it i said i'm going down to the mcguire ranch i want to see what happens i hear that you oppose you up there and also uh aliens he's gonna go with you you know okay so he jumped like ours we had to ignore he said can you stop a minute the motel my wife and 12 year old son there when the time was born with you i said sure so we stopped the motel yeah it was there too long so i started getting a little concerned why they all came out and he said they want to come too and at that point i realized i lost control because no way you could get poor people in my subaru brad so we took their four-wheel drive vehicle that's what i call i think it was a jeep of something nature and i had my cameras with me all right i carried two canvas one with infrared and one with a 100 psa pellet film so i thought i'm not sure i'd like this but i need to be courteous so we went out to the ranch but by this time it's 10 30 11 o'clock and we i knew how to get there because i've gone out there today purposely i want to see landmarks i want to see where there are buildings so i don't mistake something because it may look like a presence of some a ufo and actually it's a firehouse or something like that so we get up to the ranch and off of the 340 to that mcguire's home it's quite a distance i'll say a half mile so we got out there and he has uh a security line like a street light you know by its house and is sort of a small no to the east so they're walking around i thought i'm climbing up to that no so i walked on top thumbnail and during the time i was doing my research which still went down but shortly after i completed my phd i've become friends with the little pillow and around to hatchback california his name was trevor constable and trevor koswell used to he told me he used to see walk out of ufos what he was because there's an air base around there and he said if you ever want to see a ufo and do the star exercise yoga star exercise well i've been studying yoga since 12. so i'm on top of the small and i started doing a star exercise where you extend your arms out to right like this and you rotate 90 degrees and i don't know sound very superstitious that's what that i will end up trying to anything if it's not dangerous so i did to start our exercise all of a sudden i look up there are three ufos they weren't higher more than a thousand feet up wow that's fantastic and that became of the effect there was screaming going on and i looked down and this man can't use his name and his wife they're panicking i mean they are screaming so i thought well i better go take her my mental health because i went down there and i was trying to calm him down and i realized i was going to be able to do it so i said well let's get in the car and go back to laramie when we got in the car all the time the screaming the wife is screaming and crying the sun was panicked i mean both of them the husband wasn't that much out of control but he was really nervous uh i felt like i could just slap him in the face few times and straighten him out so i got in the back of this jeep and the three of them in front now this kid is 12 years old he's sitting on his mother's lap and she's in here screaming and crying about it that's why they say they rest like hysterical so i was driving back to the churchway highway and i'm saying myself boy i really screwed this one up i didn't take any pictures i came for that purpose so we got to the blacktop road i hang the right to go west to intersect highway 30 because this highway ends when i was 30. as we were driving along i felt something funny so i turned around looked out the back window it's three year folks they're following us i said they're up above at this point that's even i can still see it i'd say a thousand feet up but i'm fantastic so i took out my cameras and i said i figured that's pretty far away what the heck you know i'll try anyways so i started clicking on some frames they have just stopped being hysterical still crying and sobbing and when they heard the click the camera turned around they saw that they were both they panicked but we'll forget so we got the highway 30th and stop at this point it's a thunderstorm there was some rain but not much but there were slightly things and a lot of thunder so i stopped on the highway and i said stop here so i we got up is what he's going to do i said i'm walking back to the ranch they said that's about 12 miles away i said i don't care i want to go back because this time i couldn't see the europeans up in love anymore so i'm facing east they're facing west and then the intersection of i'll call it 340 i think that's great whatever it's a churchill highway a joshua highway 30 and laramie's to my right which would be south i'm looking at him talking to him trying to explain go ahead and leave me alone when i say something about maybe 150 feet away from me and it's strange it looked like the windows of a pullman box car and they were off white bluish white color and then they kept getting more and more intense uh blue white then into a real bright blue and they were off i thought what that goes to that i said i know there's no building there because that's why i went out during the day there's no farm no nothing and then it started all over again it went on several times at this point i take out my cameras with their head and strapped on i walked on us across the street they didn't see these they turned and they saw they patented again and there was a barbed wire fence it was more than four feet all right but very pretty much scale of four bits it must been about five feet high and i thought can i scale this thing so i found a post i've tried to climb i couldn't do it that just worried about ripping my hands and my clothing so what was interesting was if i looked straight at this object like a pullman car the windows straight ahead were rectangular but they kept getting shorter shorter as they went left and right i thought that's interesting so then i went around the onto highway 340 to see if i could find some entrance there but it was barboy it was all farmland and as i did the same configuration remained it was always the same square in front of me and small enjoy finally realized whatever that thing is about could be 30 feet in diameter it's a uf file i'm sure it is because the the way the size of the windows change i configured you then i realized that you're screaming i pretty much shut them out so i was like i have two cameras i rolled off 72 frames infrared and uh 100 tsa now i knew that flash only carries 25 feet and i might not get it of course there's many you know infinite number of planets in the number of entities some may look exactly like just similar as we do i'm very strong i'd like to say nowhere in regards to the ufos and that when i was watching a tv the other history channel and sean blair will harry truman signing this document and when i listen to that comment that's made over and over the reason i'm not telling the public at large is because the public might panic and therefore to be hysteria and they relate to the orson welts radio program or the world i heard that thing i didn't panic i don't recall i know we laughed at where i grew up so i began to assess the mentalities people were making these statements and i said it cannot have any to a panic of the public because the public is more open than this select group therefore it has to do with something that already is known that we do not know where they're accessing some kind of information to progress our technical uh advancements of our species through our country and whenever i read this material it substantiates my initial concept that when i look at the various cds that i have dvds and i see the historical information of depicted ufos and things that they choice i i laugh at the idiocy or the criminality of those who make the statement denying the public from that information i think it's very sad how long have you felt that the information is being kept from the general public 1966 when heineken made fun of it when he said swamp gas i said you kidding it was about 12 noon you don't see swamp gas besides them there's no swamping dexter until i knew the area very well because therefore this guy's lying so nothing new to me i think that was probably the same reaction that was held by then senator gerald ford who was from michigan right oh really he was from michigan and i think that i think we believed in the ufos yeah actually his position was contrary to what heineken said i think that there there were actually hearings that took place as a result of that heinick's explanation was that you know that the witnesses had seen swamp gas and of course i think that upset uh ford who said that was just a ridiculous explanation exactly i agree with them and i think i think highneck would later agree that that was a ridiculous uh later i developed a great respect for heidi and what he was doing i was doing it he sought information found the information and deduced it and reduced it until it was so obvious there's something that we don't know too much about and in some respects there are some of us that know a heck of a lot about them that won't reveal it i was watching a uh history last night i replayed i saved some of the programs and was the incident in in england i forget the name of that base bent waters ambassador and i was watching that i kept laughing how many people really believe that those who experienced it compared to those who denounced it and i don't know the statistics but my experience of people have met in my lifetime i'd say 75 80 believe it happened and twenty percent are willing to believe that our government because i think they're basically fighting it that might be true yeah i think the explanation for the bent waters incident was that the security personnel were seeing a light from the local lighthouse as opposed to objects that were hovering over the base and shining beams on the weapons storage areas well last night when i was watching the two major ops i can't think of the names the ones who actually went out in the south yeah i think you're talking about jim penniston yeah they did thirty john burroughs all right a tour and they were they could actually mark the spots and you could see the lighthouse it was ridiculous that things were said and i thought well that's nothing new because they've been doing it since the early part of the century why aren't they telling us about it now my uncle my mother's younger brother he was 101st airborne he was one of the few surviving paratroopers he didn't want to go in the service fact he was i wanted to be an actor and a dancer in order to avoid being drafted he was working at factory he stuck his index finger into machine to get rid of the index finger on his right hand that way he conceived they'll never take him because he can't fire a gun well he got in they should have went flying with the left and it was years later in 1966 i was taught when he was working for uh sperry rand and we're talking about differently he was looking at all my drawings that is submitting to uh was applying for a job with thompson rainbow woldridge and there was no one around just he and myself and he was about three four seven years older than nia and he looked to the left and left and right and then a sort of crouch position and he said to me let me tell you something i said tell me he said we have so much going on we have so many inventions if i told you up to where he said would make buck rogers look primitive because we grew up it was buck rogers in the 30s i said you mean veronica bets and all this stuff he says that's nothing and then he stopped and after that he would never talk to me again i'd call him see i was feeling he'd hang up the phone he said too much that was enough there to tell me we have information either given to us and derived from some alien craft that is so you think it's because of technology that they're not telling us right now there's so many people focus on their roswell but their is occurring for roswell in this country too i want you to tell me about um dr tiller and the theosophical society yeah and not to be confused with dr edward teller the father of the atomic bomb yeah that's tiller not tyler okay tell me about doctor taylor atomic bomb and tiller is a physicist now they both were at stanford university as dr klaus heineman i worked with him too dr tiller the reason he and i became friends i attended a conference in carmel california where i was living at the time and dr tiller was making presentation yuri geller of course before if i thought names like escaping that one but think about italian anyways listening to when i thought they're impressive people both two were in color and some people walked out to me because the conference was over the people were gathering in the stage talking to the presenters this fellow walked down the industry his name was jack he said you want to talk to dr tiller i thought how does he know that i said yes i would his lunch would go up as no that man that just went through a very long presentation i think it's discouraging to approach them after confidence that they should rest he said would you like to meet him he said of course he said he could be a telephone number so i gave it to him a few days later i would get a call from this fellow and i arranged for a meeting with you and dr tiller so he he raised his help slightly i thought i don't know i guess he doesn't have time to see me so i was gonna walk out he said well you want to talk to me that's when you're busy no no go ahead that's one of some photographs i want to show you i wanted your comment he said sure he took two photographs very nonchalantly looked at him like his fingers were going like this and i thought i'm wasting his time in mind too so i reached out to grab the protocol as i apologize for about it i reached autographed protest what are you doing i said well you don't have enough at least he said oh yes i do leave them here i want to meet with you again that was the beginning of a long-term relationship we still have a fact i spoke to never until it just a couple of days ago as with all those photographs there appeared to be that human form is almost human-like in a sense there's aspects of the configuration of moment like legs or feet or head or face but they're not detailed as you are right now and uh inform you you can't see i smile through things that i mentioned and there are several of them i was shot at this conference with a flash it was an asthmatic camera so that'd be 126 film and you see these configurations moving from my left to my right now i don't think it was a bunch of configurations as much as it was two figurations passing through the camera kept getting uh reprints of it as it moved it was very dark it was about midnight the conference is over and they're seeing some kind of uh short sort of equivalent to a very well you know to culminate this thing so only white in the entire auditorium more like a stadium with a center stage no lights anywhere else when you look at this photograph the white spots all over and also other figures here and these figures here and the figures here have a line from the back going up into infinity i remember when i first saw the bigger thought oh that reminds me of the silver cord that's supposed to connect human beings to the creator there's something on the theology that talks about the chord now to reference the theory that monograph i just showed it to you as a result of those photographs dr tilley decided to do some kind of researches and fine so we set up uh several sessions where i would attend a meeting where conceivably there would be increased energy uh concerts definitely weddings funerals something where there'd be a different level of energy and by accident when i was taking some photographs somebody pointed at me and started laughing and i thought of being discouraged so i just approached you know i dressed you know i said what's going on he's a look at your camera so i did and there's the lens campus on it so i linked that to notice how i took it i recorded the numbers where i had shot with the lens cap oh well when we developed them there are photographs sometimes very strange things not on this world leg other times it wasn't as though the lens cap had been removed so the doctor told us saw this we did a whole series for about four or five years lens came from telegraphy so then he would attend some of the sessions to make rock concerts one time we were in washington d uh state of washington seattle another time he went down to los angeles then he had this student who was just completing his phd edwin young he would go with me yuri geller elizabeth who blink ross and people like that nature trying to think that just many many people so we did this out of 5 000 photographs there was a 22 anomalous rate there was something strange uh it was different from canada i would have a tripod similar to what you had there and i have a cable release but i have a special bracket on a tripod with two different cameras was in the habit of carrying this camera wherever i went especially when i went down pilgrimage night for israel so i always had it in my left hand i just wouldn't set it down and dr tiller calls that the energize can so we had this setup we have a tripod with two cameras one cable release which is easy to set up either by opening your plants you can set up the timings but one camera would take have strange photographs the other camera be standard so we did that that's where the 5000 photographs came from that it still happens i would say what what do you think you were capturing with those cameras what what was it that you were photographing sometimes people sometimes religious places i'm a member of the behind face i go to the holy land and i'm very touched when i go to cemeteries i pray for people because the body that's buried in the ground is a symbol of where ever that soul is and then i understand the soul they're all here right around us we're never separated from it uh the veil is how we look at it i've met me and spiritually so now it's here so when i pray for the people at the cemetery and take photographs quite hard taking an image of someone so you're photographing spiritual energy that would be a good way you'll see it yes spiritual energy tell me what the tell me about the theosophical society itself is this something that that doctor tillerson yeah tell me about that at age 12 i was raised by a paternal grandfather and he and my father were not they didn't like each other and my father i saw my father once when i was age five and once when i was age 12 i met one of the uh persons who was related to it but no longer was a member his name was j krishnamurti in later years i became a head master with school he was a person who around the turn of the century 1900s the theosis wanted him to acknowledge that he was returned to christ and he refused he's no i'm not returning christ he's a seer uh so i got to meet him when i was 12. and what i liked about the theoceptic society there was no limit in the way they looked at things they looked at everything and introduced me to the paranormal and to the fact that sciences have a way of accessing other dimensions uh and prayer and meditation so i just learned the fundamentals of meditation i was 12 years old so i started meditating as well where i started the process of meditation but in keeping with the concept of meditation with the one that was taught to me which comes out of hinduism is when you read your state of meditation you're in an altered state and there's several levels of meditation the first aspect of meditation was called uh thinking trying to decide what you want to meditate then there's contemplation focusing more clearly then there's meditation you're in a meditative state and then after that there's nervonic state and after that there's a soul state and after that there's a god state so when i hear people talk about meditation their models aren't as extensive this one with what i was trained which i happen to enjoy very much how to prepare itself on a daily basis the thinking process uh i became a vegetarian uh it was for 55 years until my present wife said i've got to use a little agent i can't i work all day i can't afford to make two different meals i wasn't fine my late wife would make different meals my second wife made different meals my first wife made i just i was a child i didn't like me i didn't want to eat anybody so it basically was vegetarian from birth in that sense so today i spent uh put forth parallel worlds and how frequently they concur and then i was introduced to the right he was a cw lindberger uh madame blavosky annie bassant a rudolph steiner and people that major and that was my great interest because there was so much to learn that i couldn't find anywhere else and when i used to talk about it my brother told me to shut up and want people to hear me talk that way so i became more selective with whom i would talk but because the meditation i learned something was different all of a sudden i found myself visiting different parts of the world which they would call autobody experience remote viewing i could see things i was starting to see things and you leave the planet you go to different planets and you can see there are entities there too there's a passage out of the baha'i radiance which really i'd like it says something in fact there are uh infinite number of planets nearly in our galaxy upon which are creatures such as we well i don't know that's because i'd see it i'd say two or three times a week someday somebody starts walking from the right to the left i don't know why it's always these from the right to the left and it's a ghost-like figure and as a child i used to see these things and occasionally you talk to them uh people die they manifest they carry on the conversations they're saying that you and i that was what i learned from theology was not strange it was normal and the more you focus on spirituality the more you pray and meditate to be moved towards selflessness the more frequently that occurs so the position of the of the theosophical society is that these types of experiences that we might call paranormal are in fact normal it's just a part just a part of existence it's a part of the nature of our existence are you of the opinion then i i probably know the answer to this question but are you of the opinion then that there is such a thing as an eternal soul oh absolutely yes and there's a caveat there what i understand from theosophical writings which means i've read writings from all of the major religions hindus and buddhists and soros from judea they all talked about it and in keeping with the laws of science the concept of yin and yang or niels boris and complementarity if there's a body that has been on body if there's good there's bad if there's right to try and up down whatever the law of opposites that's right it's a lot of opposite complementarity therefore if we have a body that has to be a non-body if you have a brain there has to be a mind some brain and mind two different entities using the computers as an analogy the mind is in the soul the brain is in the body the soul is the programmer the brain is a computer so when i so the soul is the software that's right so when i heard comments such as uh we only use ten percent of my bread even before i do anything about computers uh because of what i'm learning from theosome i used to laugh at that because the science is trying to make the reality all in the brain that's why like wilder penfield's uh statement dr will penfield i recall i think it was a neurologist what we know about the mind now what we know about the brain cannot explain what we do not know about the mind i mean it's so obvious so the nature of consciousness cannot be explained by chemistry correct uh if there's chemistry there it has to be non-chemistry that's why i like that excerpts are read from abdul baha a man who was given the title of the peace prophet 1921 by the queen of england and he talks about electrons and cyclones and he said electrons are vibratory chords that you find in the cells of the ions and these very cords vibrate at different levels when they vibrate at one level it's what we call consciousness and they have to do with the physical world when it vibrates on another level it's called cyclones and that is what causes telepathy and the paranormal experience so when you look at it when i look at it and i see with talking about the cycles and electrons i made to think of course complementarity physical non-physical now in a sense we call it non-physical we're called as physical i don't know but i believe we need another word to be able to define these better because if nothing is separate separated and this is physical this is not physical they're still part of the same hole so i struggle with that every day i think about a meditative i write little short monographs about it well recently he wrote something on for lack of a better word reincarnation it's called a a hyper dimensional resonance can you tell me first of all why did you use the the title a hyper dimensional resonance what's the significance of that i initially entitled it traditions transitions and possibilities and purposely traditions because traditionally people are talking about their paradigm relative to how they were educated in their religious model there is conflict between all these religious models and what is humorous to me is the word religion means to make one bind together and how can you take for example christianity and divide in 350 divisions where each one says they have a better understanding so i thought i'll write a paper on traditions talking about superstitions or concepts not based on factuality because i have a very strong scientific analytical orientation that's what i do is a paranormal focus and i've written that monograph and was sending it different people and somehow when i looked at my uh address book on my computer there are two names right next to is there both begin with richard i have an oppressed wrong richard and i said that to richard hoagland the person talks so much about the face on mars have a high respect for him really enjoy him he's a personal friend of dr edward young with whom i did this research and uh ed gave me his address in case i ever went on the contact so by accident i sent it to richard hogan so richard hogan said what i was talking about is hyper dimensional resonance so i thought oh that'd be a better title for this book so this paper well so i named it hyperdimensional resonance meme means you know a concept to a model and then i finished it out and in this particular monograph i spelled out i believe it's caringly carefully again the concept of reincarnation originally wrote the paper to talk about reincarnation it's valid aspects or invalid aspect and invalid meaning can be the concepts that are put forth by those who support reincarnation can be explained different ways i like carl yings he was a very well accepted person as a professional psychiatrist and yet a few years before he died he decided to reveal that he was a psychic now i found that out in 1970 when i was head master at christian bernie school and i needed a mental health worker for the students well i was a member and i used to study with the diaspora for so many years in ohio california i went to the philosophical center and there was uh dr lawrence bendett and his wife as phoebe payne bennett was a psychic they told me they worked with carl jung for 15 years actually dr lawrence bennett was close associated with carly jung phoebe bane meant it was there because she is psychic so carl yoon and phoebe payne would look at the same i'll call they call them patients i call them clients it's the same client and do a psychic analysis who they were and that's how he treated the people for 15 years they did that so i said well we have a psychiatrist for our school he's sure of course because they knew i had been on theaters because i had met them initially years ago in 1966. when i met him 66 i was trying to figure out what to do with my life so i went to see dr bennett and his wife phoebe payne and he um came to the door when i knocked on the door and i was studying in the fiance at the time i drive from malibu up to holiday california and you saw me at the door i don't know what he's selling to me he said that i said i want to see phoebe bane i didn't know it was phoebe payne hyphen bennett so i'd like to speak to phoebe payne there's no way i don't want her near you i thought to myself what's he seeing me i just want to help and the voice from the back of the room it says have stan come in how did she know my name so you'll beat him i mean come in so that's when i met him initially in believe what i 1966 do with my life and uh so that stayed my mind now it's 1970 i go to them for help and they said carl jung was a psychic and all the tests that we have today came from carl jung who devised these tests because he didn't want his colleagues to know that he was psychic so we're talking about we're talking about uh uh you know uh reincarnation and and uh the hyper dimensional resonance and and uh carl jung's i think you were talking about uh of course we're talking about carl jung and what what i find interesting about uh his work was the concept of the archetype right memories that that seemed to follow us through our genes somehow or that are are deeply ingrained in our primitive psyche well what i derived from cairo um or that information reported to him originally from carlin and my study of the theosophical society even though they essentially put forth the concept of reincarnation among most theosis there are a few who defined it differently more of a scientific nature what carl you said which is the basis of my approach reincarnation he said everything that ever happened that ever will happen is recorded in something you might refer to as a universal library or encyclopedia and therefore there's no need to think about the concept of reincarnation because when people talked about reincarnation they want to access information from the past and what he brought forth was you can access it without having the concept of reincarnation because it's there uh available in the universal the subconscious that's correct therefore there's no need to talk about coming back and he had a very scientific approach in one sense he said nothing goes backwards everything goes forward and that is what you find throughout any kind of scientific material nothing goes backward everything goes forward i think that you mentioned in your paper the notion of and correct me if i'm wrong the notion of viewing the past like a image on a tv screen yes when i work with clients i use metaphors and analogies a lot in regards to the concept reincarnation if it's true and from my perspective this that information is recorded somewhere in what in the realm of the soul where realm is above the soul between the soul and what we call god somewhere that information is here and you can access any information without the concept reincarnation this is related to the akashic record yes and one of the means of doing it is to be consistent and devoted to achieving a stage of selflessness which can be done through prayer and meditation and refining the physiology of your body too so there is an unnecessary artifact that firing on neurons relative to use of drugs and alcohol or other stimulants non-prescriptive i know we have type of sprinklers sometimes but there's also healing to occur without prescriptive drugs how do i know because i've done it many times in my lifetime with respect to the nature of consciousness there is an aspect to consciousness some would argue that it is the key aspect of consciousness which is self-awareness and i think folks would be curious to know whether or not our our souls or our consciousness as we know it continues after the death of the physical body in other words is there is there a self-awareness that continues do we continue in a conscious state what's interesting that you use words consciousness and awareness and listening to how you express it they become distinctly different and that's what i put forth i believe my position is this that we still do not have sufficient vocabulary with which to even begin to discuss the after world i think we're at the beginning of it i believe our species has just moved into the age of maturity and leaving adolescence therefore there's going to be more concepts coming in i just listened to my wife and other people using language in regards to their cell phones i sometimes become bewildered they talk about apps i said what nowhere else an app and they she started i said what do you mean application yes that's an app ah i said so what you're now doing is what we used to do in the 30s and 40s we had something called shorthand i mean you made funny shapes but it was a language so you're doing that verbally now you're you're talking shorthand and she said yeah that's a good way to express it i said i have to i'm autistic i'm i'm dyslexic i have to put it in my opinion so when i think of consciousness first thing comes my mind is my conscious right unconscious by definition conscious means a sensory system is working that's a definition then what is unconscious it means the sensory system is not working well what is working how can i go into meditation or sleep and be unconscious yet i'm aware of something so it became very clear to me for me is consciousness the sensory wake state awareness is a nonsensory state which can go on simultaneous with the conscious state and it's primarily when we're asleep or praying or meditating we are out of body it's a lot of body is awareness so we thought about consciousness i'd say okay you mean the information you have what you're conscious that you can discuss that you're an authentic especially now can also be accessed on another level at a higher level called awareness so i see his consciousness totally related to the sensory awake state awareness to the non-sensory not awake state even though the awareness can occur when you're conscious and people say how do you do that i said just what we're doing right now you're thinking while you're listening you're doing more than one thing at the same time when i hear people talk about consciousness it's confusing to me but they're really not talking about awareness so we need a new vocabulary to talk about the specific aspects of what today is called consciousness and specific aspects of what i learned in biosphere and other esoteric groups which i call awareness so for me they're definitely different we have different levels of consciousness with a different level of awareness that's what the meditation is about and the uh the classic model meditation there's six different levels that means there's different levels of awareness now you know dr tiller said we were talking about this one day he said i think there's at least 19 20 of awareness i said so you understand what i'm saying about conscious and awareness so yeah most people say well we have that many different levels of consciousness but it's minute and wealth awareness the model for meditation has helped me considerably to see the difference between wake and unawake or altered state would you say that our our souls are the the basic nature of what we are is filtered more or less by our physical existence in other words do our brains act as some kind of a filter more or less for our souls or our consciousness i use the analogy i like analysis they help me in metaphors analogies um physically we go through various states of development and hinduism they talk about the seven levels of development physically from the fetus to birth to childhood pubescence adolescence maturity and preparation for the transition and according to those models i did this and it is that's where most people got the concept of reincarnation because in that paradigm they talked about from fetus to birth with some reincarnation and from birth to childhood and some reincarnation but but they misunderstood the concept of attorneys putting forth and we have today that we come back again into this world but in hinduism never go back and go forward so in regards to i think i forgot your question well uh i was asking about uh the nature of consciousness and whether or not our physical bodies act as a filter our brains act as a filter for our consciousness and and would we find ourselves in a complete state of awareness once freed of our physical existence well my understanding is that in this experience we call life is the onset of the development of both the physical body short term and development of the soul long term the metaphor that was used and i've read it makes sense to me it says out of the universal sea of consciousness i think this is carl jung and also religious weddings out of the universal consciousness one alcohol atom was removed at that point it was removed at the moment the child was conceived in the womb of the mother and this experience that we're having today that you and i experienced as related to the developmental stages of the soul itself that goes through an infinite stages of development is the first step of the adult of the soul so the first step in the development of soul is in the body and the next one is something not in the body but something else and it goes on endlessly so the parallel is as we as humans develop from fetus to adulthood to maturity to death the soul does the same thing it had a beginning can take another irritable subconsciousness placed in a body where they combined and then when the body no longer functions the soul is going to the next stage of development as we do from birth to child to the dark levels the soul is doing the same thing would it would it be possible to think of the uh body in this limited three or four dimensional existence as something akin to a chrysalis perhaps a chrysalis or a a cocoon like for a for a a butterfly that's a good metaphor or a good analogy yeah i like that very much because before it was before it even became a life in a cocoon it was in the butterfly and then it was placed in the cocoon and went through different stages to build i remember that in a biologic class it goes through several stages of development until the laser controller code and flies and this process goes all over reincarnation reincarnationists would say yeah that's reincarnation but i said no it's not the same butterfly it's a different butterfly the one of the most common analogs used in reincarnation is the reincarnation of the trees seasonally it has leaves right now we're losing the leaves it'll come back next spring it's reincarnated i said no that's not reincarnation because it's the cycle of the tree and it's length because eventually that tree dies if that's not reincarnation and the leaves come and go some of the leaves might be seeds and create new trees but it's not too rich in a tree it's not a reincarnation of the tree you talk about the soul like uh just a moment ago you mentioned it being somewhat akin to an atom or a small piece of the universal consciousness yes is that god well my answer to that would be yes then if we were taken out of the universal sea of consciousness or the end of the highways too the whole purpose of that appears to be almost whimsically it appears to be we were taking out of this universal sea of consciousness to go through all these experiences so we can refine ourselves to get back to where we started because there's one prayer the passage of the book titled gleanings from the writings of baha'u'llah it says in this passage this confession of helplessness that ultimately every mature mind is impel to make is the acme of human understanding and a culmination of mass development i like atlantis i understand in this process where we're given individuality because we call ourselves by certain name we have a certain identification of the body we think we're not part of this greatest force god but actually it's just another form of that creative force from which we began and where we'll end and the difference of the experience is how well we work and being selfless so we can give them back without the pain and problems we have in the process from the beginning to the transition does does love matter oh absolutely love compassion selflessness forgiveness all our aspects are the development of the soul the fact on that monograph oh i'm writing another monograph it talks about the four states of matter well with the concept of yin yang or complementarity i'm writing in paper on the four non-states of matter if we have four states there has to be four united states and if the nine states interesting enough that you should say look i have love is one of those elements of the non-state and i think i have 27 different aspects or definitions of love you know i'm glad you asked that i forgot about that i sometimes forget what i've written and what it said yes definitely it's a love is not merely a word love is a power source we have yet to define because we do not have to vote carefully to find it anymore that we everywhere vocabulary clearly define consciousness are love and consciousness directly related i believe love and awareness are directly i believe awareness love is part of awareness forgiveness is a part of awareness and that manifests in a conscious state in a manner in which we talk the matter in which we believe in a manner which we think i think it's fairly well established from a physical standpoint that all all points in space are connected some would even say that that all points in space and time are connected and perhaps even even take that a little bit further to say that there really is no such thing as distance or or really any such thing as time what is your take on that i'll repeat what i said before we need new words new language new concept when i began studying with the atheistic society uh one of the person's names that comes to my mind now is called paracelsus in late 1400's early 1500s and when i read that i said now i understand what he said was this space is crystallized energy it's not a something that separates us it's just something that connects us so everything throughout our universe and the universe of the universe is everything that is always connected but because we are just in the process human beings are going through stages development at the first level meaning soul body we are so limited to one for language to forbidden and comprehended it would be much the same as you as a professional law trying to explain how to argue a case to a preschooler or for dr tiller and people such as the self who are far advanced physicists to such a degree other physicists don't even understand what he's saying and they denounce him because he has a language which is different than they understand they haven't at least the level the development sufficient enough to understand it therefore in regards to your question at this point being as human beings there's no way we can adequately understand it until we've developed a language with which to study it we can't understand it if we don't have a language to understand it now that doesn't come in the life of the first stage of the villa of a species that's another thing i like to point out our species goes through various stages of development as we do as human beings now because we cannot answer i cannot answer questions adequately now doesn't mean that a millennia forward that our species that time will not be able to understand it then i believe it will to a better degree but not infinitely because the only infinite source can understand infinity we talked earlier you mentioned something earlier about dr young's psychic ability yes how how do psychics do what they do i'm thinking about how to reply to that in theater and in religious especially say religious writing especially about writings it says do not strive to do psychic things there is such a thing as the soul and if you strive to do something psychic try to learn to do something psychic psychically you actually retired to develop in the soul therefore that statement means that the soul develops too so if we were born physically and at that point the soul was taken out of the university of consciousness and placed in that process of birth then the development of our species is infinite even though our body is not the development our soul is infinite but don't misconstrue that our soul is the same as the species the species itself pencils uh its whole its entity we as individuals are part of that but we are distinctly separate so so how are psychics able to uh able to to communicate sure how are they able to derive this information that reportedly some of us can explain there are some people who work to do intentionally to develop a psychic ability they'll call it ability but they have a psychic experience in doing so they can have it but it actually deters it from developing further it actually retards it goes backwards so the more the pressure tries to develop the less off that occurs also effects that develop in the soul from going forward quickly it slows it down doesn't stop it slows it down and it's very important i believe to understand as much as we are different physically as human beings we are different psychically we have different intelligence and no way could i ever do the work that dr tiller does i'm not sure i can do your work i can work as a mediator but i can't work as an attorney we're different so in regards to psychic ability my focus is related to the species and not to the individual the species has a psychic ability it occurs in different degrees from different levels in different people it doesn't make them good or bad it just makes them different and when that psychic experience occurs is to be used not selfishly but for the benefit of the other person especially for the benefit of the species so because as a high jumper i can clear six feet or not anymore i used to it doesn't mean that i was better than someone else because in all respects it was just i was different in a sense that i could jump but i can't do many of them i can't sing uh i can't play instruments so we're saying it's a matter of innate ability and talent perhaps it's the ability i don't like to call it ability it's an experience that occurs within the species and different parts of the species has different levels when it occurs and when it occurs it's very important to share it and use it for the benefit of the other person but don't take payment for it and theosie says never take payment the payment is a blessing from god but never take money for a psychic experience it deters its occurrence so the ethiopia is very religious in that sense just i want to emphasize it's an inherent part of the species as a species develops more and more if you and i would believe in reincarnation and we came back a hundred thousand years from now and we were a species then we would talk about um psychic buildings far different because the species would have already advanced so far there would be something else so it's a aspect of our species and it's another mental stage at this point but do not might encouragement do not confuse them with being something specific with an individual where it can be taught or learned now certainly as we become more selfless we become more aware of other things around us because if we are selfish we create blindfolds and we become less selfish we see more things as we see more things that as i understand it conceivably you'll start seeing things what you might call it the psychic nature um and i had a short conversation with john edward a few months back because that we that we talked about and uh what i think i got out of our conversation was that uh what he does is kind of pick up on a signal you know as you know he talks to people that have passed on or he receives messages from people that looks to me like he actually has conversations with them but what he would say is that he tunes into them almost kind of like a radio signal and they're just kind of always there almost in this white noise sort of uh i've had those since i was a child those have passed we call them asked where you died they manifest i don't just hear the voice i see the person as much as i see you and we carry on the conversation there are other times i just i hear it many times and somebody called when they speak to this woman from jackson she'll call and say uh i just called to say hello and all of a sudden i find myself talking and i feel like it's discourteous for example she called us up oh i said do you have cancer left breast she's what i said i see a little black spot i said they don't want to be discouraged but are you having a problem she just yes i have a black spot there i said well it looks like cancer she said well they thought it was cancer too they didn't inject and broke the needle off the breast they still haven't removed it and you were able to visualize that yeah i could see it not because i tried it just happens and that's what came a little bit john edwards who was saying he suddenly hears things that's very common for me to hear or see something and sometimes that's yet sometimes i do she was my supervisor my certainly my internship in psychology and about a year later if she called and we started dating we got married and she was saying uh something different about you and i said why she says every walking room and i'm reading you burn out the lights i said well yeah i don't browse them she said they quit working this is that psychic garble you talk about and that's what you call it psychic garden that's the doyle i guess you can call the garbo that says cherry express with you i said you know there's something wrong with you i think you have cancer so why do you say that i see i'm lying on a bed and you're the edge of the bit is right here on your intestines and you're talking and gagging i said i think you have cancer in your lung she saw a united garbo nothing wrong with me 11 years later she's diagnosed with cancer of her left lung tumor statutory she coughed so hard and ripped open her heart and i did the heimlich minimum to try to keep from drowning of course and just that didn't blood so two years ago maybe a little less i'm sitting on the edge of the bed thinking about this problem i have with a financial of my car washing in utah and i'm thinking i think because my wife gets up at 5 30 she goes downstairs starts preparing breakfast i get up about six five to six i'm sitting here down to bed and i'm thinking about this uh issue all of a sudden there's a tapping on my head i could hear it and i could feel it so i thought it was my wife helen who i call hodge that's her initial stage of jay so the voice says to me stan don't worry about it everything's okay i thought when did han start calling me a stand she calls me stunning slow jamal couldn't say stunning slow no man how much she tried so she called me stan so i looked to my right and there was jamal sitting on the bed next to me i'm looking at her and i said see i've got an engineering background i'm a licensed psychologist in two states used to be licensed to other states why don't you do an assessment and she's talking all this time so i looked at her as well i don't recognize her clothing she looks the same oh the bed is depressed because that's interesting so she's talking and i'm responding to but meantime i'm looking obviously doing an assessment such as anybody who has a uh obsessive nature outlook for information just that there was a click behind me from the door hodge was entering the bedroom i got excited i said oh come on over here quick i wanted her to see jamal she'd come over and stand next to me see what's wrong i said your mom was just here she was talking to me look the bed is depressed now it's dude that's nice mine downstairs breakfast is ready of course she but she believes in all this and she knows how to have these experience costly and besides she studied shamanism for about three years of a period of three years so she believes these things too she just took a notch mom but he did an assessment the bed was depressed i could see when she's sitting there and when she's no longer there you can see somebody had been sitting i don't work in doing those things but what i find or what i've discovered is the more i let go of wanting to happen more frequently it occurs and that's in keeping with theosome in religious weddings if someone were to want to perhaps learn more or do more with respect to learning about their own spirituality would you suggest meditation prayer things of that meditation is a process that gets you an altered state when you really aren't a meditative state you're a militant state it's an oxymoron the more you run it the more self-involved you are so the less self-involved you are the more possibly for those experiences to occur yeah i believe that when somebody i believe my observation is my husband for those who are more selfless those experiences occur more often now if we took one dozen people and then we would assess that they all were selfless it doesn't mean they're all going to have the same experience because again i want to emphasize it's part of the species but one of the benefits of becoming selfless as much as you can it's not only good for you it's good for the species so i want to keep into emphasizing think of the species as an entity in itself and do what they can to improve the existence of that species in doing so different things begin to occur on different levels and some of those are what they call psychic experiences a meditation in a sense and prayer might be one of the processes to bring the life those vibratory cords in the cell in the ion because that's how to understand it the more one works towards spirituality the more the vibrations that court does that mean that everyone will have an increase the same increase from the documentary court no but there will be an increase some increase more some less it's to be happy moment to moment second to second that you are doing what you can to help our species to create peace in this world equality in this world and to exemplify being courteous and to have a lot of joy and to laugh at even your misery and to know that when we have what most people call trouble they're not troubles it's not god getting even with us actually those troubles should be best defined as tests and difficulties and the greater the test and difficulty we have is a direct measure of what our potential is to which we can move towards so if we look forward to these vicissitudes of life and smile at them they no longer have troubles they're learning experiences is there a is there a method of uh meditation that you would recommend above others yes i've been exposed to many the one that i've considered most profound and the most detailed and godlike is a classic one out of hinduism and what i like about it it speaks to the individual herself or himself for example if you have a flexible body you can do what they call the lotus position the purpose of lotus position actually is technical it's to decrease the flow of blood down to the lower extremities so the heart slows down its speed the more you slow down the beat of the heart the less neural artifact you have however i cannot do that i'm not that flexible so i cannot do the low disposition when i see these classic things when they're they're sitting in lotus position doing this this is contrary to the concept of meditation because you're causing neural artifact pinching your penis now if you want to heal you can do some achieved dome healing by touching different parts of fingers but not from adaptation so for those who cannot do that they have what they call the egyptian position is the one in hyman right now and this one you leave legs neither extended or retracted and your arms are supported by armrests that means it reduces the heart effect of the flaring of the muscles because trapped pieces that will not fire because they aren't supported so the idea is reduce the amount of artifact as much as you can but never lie down to meditate otherwise you're giving the body two signals lying down means go to sleep meditation means focus well they're opposites so don't lie down meditate i see i hear people say oh yes i was my dad today i ran them out i said that's an oxymoron you can't meditate when you by definition you can call us something else i think it's wonderful that you can go out of body if that you have an ultrasound but we'd have to measure your oxygen level and find out why you're in that state there's so many things so the class i go into the egyptian bottled soup like this if you do lotus position do that and you start to process by thinking and getting yourself ready for meditation thinking is the process of getting ready the contemplation is to feel opposite conscious and aware of how many thoughts are going through your mind and as i go through your mind the ones that are gonna interest you take it and store it somewhere in your psyche so you can get back to another time and the others just get rid of it as you go through that process of contemplation you finally get so lazy like in your focus you have one something that you're going to focus on at that point you're an altered statement and when you're in altered state you're accessing information from the unified saliva and when you get into a higher level of meditation see most people talk about meditation as they follow and it's not meditation in the classic model is one step of six steps of meditation even though there's a meditation level it's only part of the whole process of meditation when you get so laser-like when you're in that meditative state you now get into what they call the uh well forgot the names i said it wasn't earlier meditative state yeah that's the next stage is uh it's a higher level meditation before you get to their soul statement god's state uh but the the next level is that nirvana the nervous state that's it so the next state after the meditation state is a nevada state that's level number four your nevada state you can go wherever you want because you're there and you can access information anywhere information anywhere whether it's on this planet another planet this round another round that's with nirvana it's really out of state and when you're a solid state you're the step between a body state and a return to god and when you're in god's state you're no longer you give back to god stanislav thank you for sitting with me today and talking enjoyed very much and thank you for the opportunity and i apologize for any incoherence and it's been my want to make sure i always express this as my focus my experience and to put it forth as a concept and never as an absolute [Music] so [Music] you are listening to the official podcast of the mutual ufo network though he is now well into his 90s stanislav continues to study and write as he has always done and his interest in ufos and the paranormal persists even now i cannot begin to elaborate on the number of things i have learned from stanislav or the profound ways in which he has influenced my thinking my hope is that one day the important and pivotal role he has played in the history and development of academic paranormal and parapsychological research will be recognized and celebrated thank you once again for listening if you're watching us on youtube don't forget to like and subscribe we'll see you again next week right here on the official mufon podcast [Music] ah you