Immaculate Constellation - A UFO Whistleblower's Journey : PART 2 : WEAPONIZED : Episode #75

Transcript

[Music] in part two of our interview with the author of the Immaculate Constellation report. So the idea that it could have been a war game, could it have been something, you know, some of these UFOs that have been seen over nuclear missile bases, silos, and things of that sort there, the implication has been as with drones that it's a readiness test of some sort. If that had been the only thing I had seen and none of the rest of this saga had happened, right, we wouldn't be talking. And I go and I have the meeting with [ __ ] Uh give them the paper um including the various compartments and programs that they could themselves uh look into to access the same information that I saw which is ridiculous that Congress has no access to. When I was in USDI, I read the transcripts of Sean Kurpatre uh briefing Senator Rubio, Senator Warren, and Senator Gillibrand on the results of his investigation in his congressionally tasked arrow report.

And those transcripts, which were supposed to be a open kimono, uh here's the truth, Mr. Senator, Mr. Senator, uh Sean Kirkpatrick, absolutely distorted. Saying what what did he say that was a lie? You know, I read these transcripts once uh and immediately knew that uh yeah, veiled threat. No, I I knew that I was now something else.

I was in I had inside knowledge into the deception of our government by elements of our intelligence community. [Music] Ah, people will be so curious. So, what comes on the fourth page? Talk us through the pages. Just go ahead. Yeah.

So I I mean uh like I said the the second series second and third examples were uh um less interesting to me but you know uh they are uh images of orbs transiting from uh coastal facilities out to the ocean and sort of describing you know what those facilities were. uh as I think the unspoken implication of why something like this would be out there. Um and yes, just a similar over just just a v uh not vague but a general description of we observed this coming from this direction or from where this facility sensitive facility was left over the ocean. Um you know this was our task asset and it happened on this date. anything um really striking in the rest of that document that really uh highlighted to you? Anything else in that document is really striking? Yeah, so the the last example of the four uh was back to Russia again.

Uh this time I believe in the Atlantic Ocean. Um and it shows a another Russian intelligence vessel uh underway this time at night. The image is uh green infrared. Um and uh it shows above this Russian vessel a another black triangle but whereas uh the the first example in the Pacific was you know an equilateral large pretty stunning object that was of comparable size to the vessels below it. This was a more definitely smaller.

It was smaller than the vessel and it was more uh angular uh in shape and sort of swept back and it it was uh also accompanied by text saying that there was no indication that the Russian vessel was responding in any way to this ship hovering above it. Uh in this it did not describe in this instance whether it had miraculously appeared or if it was tailing the ship but triangular in shape and hovering. Well, hovering probably matching speed though too with the ship um like USS um Russell other people argue and I don't care what shape it is you know when you have something with rangefinders off of a ship that goes with it stops with the ship continues so this is not a new thing this idea of triangular by angle of observation pyramid in shape some would say could be you're right so that's striking and you and you saw that too yes yeah and that was the last example after that was sort of a summary slide or to about just recapping like the fact that these incidents are we are collecting sorry we are collecting these incidents around the world uh that we are focused on UAP RB collection incidents uh by tasked and untalis of those uh data data streams so sometimes we know where it's going to be tasked assets sometimes we just happen to capture unt correct correct and I think a good example is in that brief itself where the orb incidents appeared to be untites. They were not there to collect on orbs. They were there to collect on something else and they happened to catch something.

Uh whereas the the two Russian incidents, we were there uh we were there to watch the Russians and the Russians interactions with this technology. Wow. So your suspicions after seeing this 12page report is that some are these are freeze frames of what are videos? Yeah, videos. So somewhere there's a bigger collection of this stuff that's also very interesting. Absolutely.

Yeah. Um like uh you know there was informal collections of this stuff by interested people on on those systems and there's absolutely uh you know professional uh mission task databases for this. Okay. So you you've seen now you've had this exposure. Uh you try to do the right thing and you take great steps to try to do it.

It takes a little while for you. It does. So So explain that to me. What you tried to do? So there you go. You see something that you know shouldn't be there on that archive.

You know what happens? What do you do? Absolutely nothing. Um in fact, the first time I read that, I don't know what I just read and if it's even real. Um maybe somebody just made this thing. Okay. explain that so you can it would be like a joke or something or they put it together literally for a war game, right? Um they had maybe created an imaginary program that maybe they wanted to have, right? Uh or a a desired capability or something that was uh representative of the truthing uh to be used in Is that normal or common though? That's a weird thought.

It is a weird thought, but this is what's going through my head because it's so bizarre. Okay. And um you're like, "No way." Yeah. I'm going through everything, all the options why it's not what it is, right? Yeah. Uh and so I do nothing um for some time.

And then we uh our office gets a training on like or refresh training, but this was new in my career, so my first time on what to do in cases of spillage for sap material. Okay. And I realized, well, no matter how weird this is, this has all the hallmarks of what you guys just said is a big [ __ ] deal. So, you know, I can either pretend like I didn't open and read this thing 80 times and hope that uh it doesn't notice that either or I can report it myself. Uh so I did that or I tried to do that.

You tried to report it. You read it a bunch. It's fascinating and then you you try to report it. So what does that look like when you try to report that? What' you do? So the first time uh I I went uh just quietly to uh my I guess my immediate supervisor, a retired uh army colonel. So you go to your uh supervisor superior.

Mhm. What I got to say, hey, I got to show you something in in our in our closet. Uh our whole office is a skiff, but inside the skiff is another tiny skiff. Um and you I think we we have like a spillage thing. And so I need to show it to you cuz this is apparently what we're supposed to do.

Show it to your boss. Um, and then follow the reporting chain and you sign you sign a paper and that's how it's supposed to be handled all by the books and they just trained you on it and you're like, "Okay, here's what I'm supposed to do." Right. Exactly. So, I try to follow that while also being, you know, quiet about it. Um, take him in and he's like, "Okay, so so show me what you found." I pull up that slide and uh, you know, the first the first slide just because it's so generic gets no reaction.

But then going to like maybe the second slide or or even the third slide, he's just like, "Okay, stop." like, "Stop. Did you read this?" And I don't answer, but I just look him in the eye and I look at the screen and I'm like, "Of course I read this." That's how you know it exists. And he definitely picked up on that and he uh the conversation ended with him saying, "Delete it." And he left the room and we never spoke of it again. He's cutting you some slack there in essence without me knowing. Yes.

Yeah. You didn't read it. Uh so you're not in any trouble. That's ended here. Delete it.

And also, as I came to learn, um, you know, it certain material, uh, you get exposed to and it's you're kind of marked for life that that happened and, uh, it's probably not good for your career at a minimum. We've seen other whistleblower friends of ours have, uh, experiences like that. They're marked. Yeah. Yeah.

Didn't realize that at the time. So, that happened. Uh, I sit on that for a few days. Didn't sit right with me cuz I'm still thinking like, well, that's not what we're supposed to do. I could do that, but everything supposedly everything we do on those systems, every click, every keystroke is monitored.

So, like I just I need to self-preservation. I need to do keep doing the right thing here. So, I go to his boss or his boss's boss. I I change my approach. I don't say what it is.

I don't show it to them. Um I don't print it out. And I just say, "Uh, ma'am, uh we have a a spillage incident. I believe it's SAP material. um could you please provide guidance on on how to handle this? And so uh through that uh I was connected to uh our our parent offices uh special access special access program control officer.

Mhm. Um had a meeting set up to go meet with them a few days later. That happened. Uh I go to that meeting uh uh in a SAPF uh so where this material is supposed to be stored and handled. And this person says, "Okay, show me the material." So, uh, I sit down.

Round two. Right. Exactly. You're showing the material. I sit down.

I I pull it up. It's like, it's right there at the top of the shared server. So, I'm not like It's It's almost instant. Like, it's right there. I pull it up.

I start scrolling through it from the bottom. I get no reaction. Then he says, "Okay, let me look at it." He takes my chair. He goes through. He scrolls through it.

No reaction on his face. I'm watching him very closely at this point cuz I'm exceptionally curious about all of this. No reaction. Uh then he scrolls through it again and he makes a very deliberate uh scene where he pauses on Lou Alzando's slide and starts gofawing in a very uh non-believable way and saying somebody's having a joke. Uh this you don't need to worry about this.

You can go. And that's not the reaction I was expecting. I was expecting to at the very least sign a paper, right, saying, you know, this incident happened. Yeah. Reported it, signed it, you know, it's done.

Uh, so, you know, I I tried to ask him like, are are you sure like that, do I need to sign anything? He's like, nope, you can go. And so I left that room and never ever had anything about that incident come up again. Except immediately you went and checked again for the file. Yeah, I went upstairs and I went to see what had happened and it was gone. So, the idea that it could have been a war game, could it have been something, you know, some of these UFOs that have been seen over nuclear missile bases, silos and things of that sort there, the implication has been as with drones that it's a readiness test of some sort.

We're going to put some secret um operation unexpected and see how people and systems react to it. Could that have been what was going on here? Yeah, I mean it is something that you know on the surface level appears plausible. I just I do not believe that to be the case given the the circumstances of how it was located. The fact that hundreds of people had access to that system, the fact of it's generic labeling. It wasn't, you know, there was no red flags on that to draw draw any uh draw any fish to the bait as it were um to catch somebody.

and then the process of ex of reporting it, you know, there there's no outcome from that uh besides apparently making a lot of people pissed off and worried and kind of scared. Let me add to that um something that we noticed and I believe it's true reporting which is that when David Grush testified um immaculate constellation before the world ever knew those words was searched on Google a ton. Additionally, over the research and time and sources that we have, um, you know, it has been confirmed to us under no uncertain terms that that was the name of a program with that nature. So, if we're looking at it as like a lark LA lar, we get to the point where there's too many outside confirmation after the fact as well as Yeah. If that had been the only thing I had seen and none of the rest of this saga had happened, right, we wouldn't be talking.

Totally. You you wrote um in a paper that was submitted to Congress and we'll go to a lot of uh details in that but that this was deeply disturbing overall. Why was it disturbing to you? Yeah. So it as time passed it became disturbing um especially uh after the sort of um the process of Gush coming forward left awake on the inside too. Uh people were tracking that who weren't even involved but were able to see sort of the distortions on the inside.

Um distortions of truth. Exactly. and but also you know bureaucracies and offices behaving weirdly um around this subject and sort of the movements for reaching out to Congress uh to get legislation drafted uh that eventually became that intelligence authorization act and that first NDAA uh where they provided whistleblower protections. Um, I think that that was one of the moments that really uh started to convince me that this was this was not um under under our government's control. That's a core of why we're talking today.

Yes. What do you mean? Um, just on an emotional level, uh, and blunt analysis, why the hell is Congress passing a law asking for UFO uh, insiders from the intelligence and military military community to come talk to them directly under amnesty about something that doesn't exist, isn't an issue. Um, and if it is does exist and is an issue, but it's secret, uh, apparently our most sensitive congressional committees are not briefed on this. Yeah, I I find it at the core disturbing you having uh Arrow even ask for whistleblowers to come forward to them. Uh having Car was asking for whistleblowers to come under amnesty to come to them.

Yes, something's rotten with that. And then also at the same time seeing the the the sort of UAP task force and its slow death uh on the inside and the death of the you know sort of open exchange of ideas and problem solving going on was another data point that pointed to something rotten. Mhm. And uh the last one that really sealed it uh and really convinced me that I I need to find a way to uh bring this to Congress, no matter no matter how small it might be, it apparently matters. Mhm.

Uh was uh when I was in USDI, I read the transcripts of Sean Kurpatre uh briefing Senator Rubio, Senator Warren, and Senator Gillibrand on the results of his investigation in his congressionally tasked Arrow report. in those transcripts which were supposed to be a open kimono. Uh here's the truth. Mr. Senator, Mr.

Senator, uh Sean Kirkpatre absolutely distorted, downplayed, and can't prove it, but I would say outright lied to to the people who have direct responsibility for him. Saying what what would what did he say that was a lie? So, it's more of a lie of the whole big picture, the big picture, right? in the meeting it's, you know, oh, we, you know, Congressman Rubio, you know, we we've heard about this incident. Uh, we just don't have enough data to go on it to really know what this is. Uh, we don't have any way of really figuring out what's going on. Um, it could just be an anomaly.

In fact, it's most likely anomaly. So, starting with an acknowledgement that, you know, here you Oh, yeah. You have some data, but we have the insight and the scientific expertise to to make you feel at ease. Nothing to see here, folks. Moving on.

Exactly. Although there was also political discussion involved in historic discussion. Um and you know I read these transcripts once uh and immediately knew that uh yeah veiled threat. No I I knew that I was now something else. I was in I had inside knowledge into the deception of our government by elements of our intelligence community.

Um my blood ran cold at a specific point in that transcript where Mr. Rubio is discussing uh the legacy program. This was a subject of direct discussion with Sean Kurpatre in these meetings. And based on Mr. Kpopatrick's replies about uh as vague as they were uh but unable to escape the truth of the legacy program.

Mr. Rubio's response was, "Well, what the hell is the executive branch doing? Have they been running this for 60 years without congressional oversight?" I might be paraphrasing a little, but that's near enough verbatim. And I saw that line and I I basically closed that file and uh had a pretty sleepless night. All right. Uh, you said your blood ran cold, meaning you're pissed, you're spooked, scared.

What is scared? Scared. Scared for your country. I just think in general it's like a I don't know. There was nothing associated. It was just like immediate, oh [ __ ] Good response.

You now know this is real. This is a cover up. They are lying about this stuff. Yeah, at that point I definitely knew the phenomenon was absolutely real. I knew we were tracking it.

I knew we had uh lots of resources on it for some time. But getting to that final like uh step in the ladder and see like oh and the cover up is real and it's inside the house. Give us a sense of you read one document that said immaculate constellation and it had some images with it. What additional information did you come across that reinforced your belief that there is a big surveillance program collecting this stuff? Well I mean uh one is just the fact of its existence right in in the brief it's talking about the general mission. and it's giving examples, but it's clearly talking about a collection mission.

And then there's there's uh programs that have since become public. Uh the most relevant one in this case is the NRO sentient program uh that kind of at least in the open source way demonstrates how you don't need a massive workforce to do this uh anymore. You don't need uh buildings without windows for acres to people taking this information and sanitizing it, making it sure it gets to the right people without the wrong things in it. Uh and that's just on the inside, right? Like you don't also need exposure to a bunch of human beings with individual egos and identities. To be clear, there there's kind of AI siphoning off of data and information to keep it compartmentalized without spine of human eyes.

even within our intelligence agencies if I'm understanding it. Yeah. It's a bit of a janis, a two-faced god. It takes things in one end and make sure you hear what you need to hear out the other. Right.

And you suspect that uh UAP when that data is collected and and brought in and ingested that there is a whitewashing or not whitewashing of it, there is a a clarifying of that stuff to to make sure the general people in the intelligence community don't see it. Absolutely. And that's a long-standing practice for especially for imagery intelligence. uh just uh nothing about UFOs. You know, back in the cold war days, if if something a facility or an aerospace platform was seen that um sorry, was collected, uh you know, there would be either there'd be a full version, right, for those who needed it.

Uh but if you just needed to see the facility but maybe not the plane, you know, those would be manually excised. Now, we have uh tools to do that for us. Could you describe then for us uh how you think this works? Whatever the name for it is now, how it works. Did we have an AI system in 2018 that could do what we're describing? Well, we know we did. Um those documents have since become public, right? Sentient.

Sentient, right? Um and the fact that Sentient was operational at those dates of the documents mean it was operational for years before then. uh years before 2018. You know, we've had our conversations private and otherwise about this kind of an operation and it just seems like gosh, there should be somebody who's collecting all this information and studying it and trying to figure it out. And the fact that it goes into the executive branch somewhere if that's what happens to it, good. I'm glad somebody's doing it.

Why is that, as you've learned about it, why is that not necessarily a good idea? Is it because it's not maybe really within the executive branch that it's it's an entity unto itself? Why it may not be a good idea to censor our intelligence products that are circulated within our cleared community uh to our service members that are on the front lines every day uh is because you are uh blinding them to their environment. You are opening them to threats. you're exposing them to risks and you are essentially inhibiting uh the pursuit of national security objectives by doing so. There's a reason you guys have talked to so many whistleblowers from the military who see these things. Uh that's because partially because they're reporting it, they feel endangered by it.

Uh and nothing is being done and no answers are being given and they are in some cases suffering legitimate injuries. these images that would pop up here and there on on some system on some platform um this AI program that was once called Immaculate Constellation it would grab them take them away and then they're gone from those platforms those places so like CIA or or yeah I believe where it where it could it you know the data was ingested essentially in a you know a stove pipe right it's it's locked off it goes in it goes into the black box and then a product comes out for what you're cleared to see and what you have a need to know to see. Wouldn't somebody say, "Hey, where's my image that I recorded?" Uh, and then where to go? Yeah, there's a lot of people who have had incidents like that. There you also have to remember there's a lot of surveillance and reconnaissance platforms. Not all these are controlled by military or national intelligence.

And uh the thing I believe a lot of uh what was you know circulated for some time among the community was people at combatant commands or with operational units uh they had their own platforms essentially they control that data to a large degree and they were able to decide that it goes on JWix not uh into the black box right so I've heard this over and over and over that there are these uh pipelines of communication let's say overseas to sentcom but there's a squeezing point. There's a narrowing point where stuff doesn't get where it's intended to get and that that's been a problem operationally, especially when it comes to UAP stuff. People have tried to track and follow what they've submitted and it didn't get where that it needed to. It's been siphoned off. To be clear, immaculate constellation is not um an AI scrubbing program.

just you know so we our audience understands that um we've described what immaculate constellation is but that is an element we suspect from the literature and knowledge of what is public that there is that capability to scrub instead of like airbrushing out UFOs from Nassers and and part of the uh the way of knowing what this is is knowing who in the DoD at least has you know primary responsibility over SAPS uh OSD policy really only has control over operational SAPs and logistical SAPs. Then you will have OSD research and engineering and acquisition sustainment. They will have uh you know your science and technology saps that'll that they are the people who run who they're the gatekeepers for that world. And then you'll have your intelligence or USDI in this case uh their SAPs and caps and those are intelligence saps uh they are the primary keepers of that. So the implication there is that you know if OSD policy is being briefed on that immaculate constellation is a parent sap not for a specific platform but for a mission.

I I think the core of this for me is at one point Matt realized, holy [ __ ] this is real. This is a problem and people are being lied to. People that um need to know the truth that it's being siphoned off uh outside of control of what should be our representative government. And let me know if I'm saying anything that's wrong from your perspective, but I think there's a point that he hits like you and I have hit. We're being [ __ ] lied to and it's becoming dangerous.

your first sentence in in the report that we fought to get on congressional record. We'll get into that. We fought for that together. This document is a result of a multi-year internal investigation into the subject of unidentified anomalous phenomena. That first sentence in your report that that we uh fought to get into congressional record for a reason.

So basically your blood goes cold. You're like, "Oh, fuck." And then you do a multi-year internal investigation. Explain that. It's your first sentence. What did you do? Um, at the time of that uh, knowledge.

Um, you know, I was still in the Pentagon. Um, but I was not a whistleblower. Uh, my investigation at that point was in the pursuit of my duties encountering WMD. Um, also my professional curiosity. You went deep.

Well, the report is uh, you know, seven categories of evidence, right? Mhm. Um, immaculate constellation is the attention grabber, but it's the one where there's the least amount of uh detail, right? Um, so I basically conducted my own uh amateur all source analysis uh of what the US government, specifically the DoD, cuz that's what I had access to, uh, knew about UAPs. and I collected that information and uh sought out a way to go to Congress because they asked and provided amnesty for whistleblowers. If they did not want that, they should not have written that into a law, right? They said they did and you started to go down that path and that's our kind of next step is you're seeking whistleblower protection. Okay, so now you realize you got to do something and you feel compelled.

I think we understand why he feels compelled. It's dangerous. Um you seek whistleblower protection officially. Is that the next step or what what's the next step? The next step is to figure out how to even get to Congress. Okay.

Um and actually a little bit before that to figure out like am I even needed? Okay. Um because at this point, you know, the legislation was there but Grush was not. Um I was aware of people on the inside, some of whom have since become public, some who have not, who uh the very least shared a interest in this getting a wider exposure in the intelligence community. Mhm. Um so I started talking to people in that world.

Um and trying to quietly figure out uh you know what's the state of play? Um is what I have valuable or needed? Should do I need to go forward? Right. Right. So there was a long feeling out period there. Um lots of mistakes made but those were mistakes born of risk because uh you know this this is there's no channels for this. There's no official process and I'm literally in the belly of the beast back to a constellation.

You begin to get the sense that it is in fact a constellation with a lot of individual stars or or stove pipes underneath it. Could you describe that structure, what you learned and how you learned it? So that just that's just more of a nature of of SAPS apparently um learning in how they're constructed and especially how the internal security for SAPS is run. Um I think you guys have reported on it that the budget for security is much higher than the budget for the actual research on this. Um and that is a very there's very real world effects as I came to learn. Describe those for as example.

You're you're telling us that you realize the guys you're working for are lying. Um do you start to feel marked because of your interest in this or do you make mistakes that that put you in somebody's crosshairs? Uh, so there was no indication that anything untored was thought about me. Um, no, as far as I knew, nobody even knew I was interested in this stuff. You feel a sense of duty. Congress needs to know.

You know, they've been lied to specifically. People tell you, "Yeah, this is an important piece to the puzzle." And you felt a sense of patriotic duty to do that. And so you took steps to that. You said, "Cool. They're going to give me whistleblower protections.

I am a whistleblower." What happened? How did you do that? What were the steps? So I had to find them. There was no way that I could find to get into contact with Congress. I tried. Mhm. Uh so then I started talking to other people who were at that time more vocal about their intent to be a whistleblower to Congress internally more vocal on classified systems or in uh not so much on systems but in classified facilities verbal conversations.

Uh so meant one person who did go forward uh kind of watched that person without letting them know what I knew to see you know what they were doing and how it went for them. Uh at that time it just seemed to be the report was you know I went in talked with the staff the staff then had a separate meeting to talk with the member and uh there was no paperwork no lawyers involved it's just you're in you say what you have to say and you're out that's the channel no repercussion that's what they said we know all of those people as well the assumption none of there's not a uh SOP written out you know this is what I'm learning and observing and you told them what you know correct um officially. Yeah. The first meeting I wouldn't say I was especially transparent uh going in remember I knew it I knew my bosses were lying. Um I'm talking to a permanent member of the Senate staff, not a member, not an elected representative.

I don't know what their could have been bait. You would be careful. It could have been bait. So I shared, you know, the the attention grabber, the MCON story. Mhm.

uh and slowly worked my way around those other categories of evidence, but left it at like, you know, I got more to say, but like, you know, we should probably, you know, do you want me to say more? Like, what comes next? Um, so that meeting was had. I uh spoke to that person in the skiff in the heart Senate office building. I signed my name on the log, my true name on the log book on August 17th. We've been into that skiff since majority started that log as well. So unless that page goes missing into there.

Yep. Um you got balls like church bells, man. I mean going in there and doing this uncharted territory. You're just trying to do the right thing. I can kind of feel it.

You know that that's a difficult thing and you did it and you went in. Yeah. I don't know who to trust then either. Right. Uh so what happens next is I'm told, okay, so we're going to set you up.

Uh to be clear, I spoke to a staff member from [ __ ] Mhm. I was told that next you will speak to a staff member from Sask and then we will have a meeting with both Sask and [ __ ] with the elected members of Congress there and the two people I or sorry and the staffers that I spoke to. That's what's was supposed to happen, right? So I feel a little better leaving this meeting actually. The person I interact with seemed very genuine. Um took my concerns for safety very seriously.

Um, and uh, perhaps oddly, but it was somewhat comforting, seemed to know more than me, cuz at that point, um, I hadn't really met anyone who at least willingly was going to answer questions and seemed like they knew uh, even a degree of what I knew at the time. So, yeah, I I felt like, okay, we're on track. There's a process here. Congress actually is getting this under control. Um, I'll have these meetings and it's, you know, uh, I get a handshake, maybe a nice little thank you, and I feel like I did my duty and I can get back to my career.

They're asking you to come forward and you do it. Mhm. So, none of those meetings ever happen. Uh, weeks go by, I reach out, hey, is this going on? Like, I I told you I had more. I want to give that more to you, so I don't have it.

Um, when can we meet? got the runaround uh and then eventually the blunt reply like you either send me what you have in writing here on this uh non official channel or uh you know you don't and we don't need it. So I I sent that extra information and then for many months uh I thought you know I'm I'm done. It's disillusioning isn't it that the the Congress has made a show of this. Hey, we want the information. We're going to pass this legislation, protect whistleblowers, come on in, tell us this stuff, and then the the channels really don't work.

I came to be disillusioned. At the time, I just uh I came to believe like, okay, I I had something that was of minor importance. I'm just really not important enough to talk to anymore. So, you're the little guy. Shut up.

We don't need you anymore. Or just the fear, right? The fear that you're you're trying to do the right thing. This sensitive topic, you know, people are lying. Who do you trust? And all of a sudden you do what they say. There's got to be fear there.

Like, oh [ __ ] should I have opened my mouth? Yeah. Yeah. But I think at that point though, it was mostly hurt. I still thought like, I guess I'm too small, but too small and I guess you guys got this already. When I talked, to be clear, David Gush had just spoken the month before or right before then, I was clear like, hey, uh, you know, this meeting's been in the work for months.

I I saw David Gush's testimony. I don't even know if you need what I have anymore, right? Um, this guy seems to have it all. But yeah, they still wanted to talk, right? Did there come a time then when you start meeting physically meeting with other people who are sort of like whistleblowers or at least making sounds like whistleblowers? Yeah. So that came about uh the person who connected me to Congress uh started trying to make a network of people in the IC and the military uh you know for what ends it was kind of vague but it was more of at least a community of interest maybe looking towards like a group of current and former national security employees that can you know be a resource to that Congress can call on to either like you know speak or just to like make a statement you know legit getting organized Yeah, you got to be thinking, well, look, I'm going to go hear from some other people, see what their experience has been like. Maybe I'm not doing this, right? There's another way to do it.

Well, I mean, at that point, I had accepted that, you know, they didn't need my information. I didn't feel like there was anything left to do. Now, I'm back at, well, I just want to know what's going on. These are the people like me, sort of. Uh, did you have to tell your bosses, hey, I I'm under whistleblower protection, allegedly.

I I went and whistleblower. Did you have to like tell your bosses at your normal job? No, I did not tell my bosses. Uh, at this point in time, I was at the Department of State when I was a whistleblower to be very clear. Um, I was a whistleblower when I sorry, I was at Department of State employee when I reached out to Congress and I was a Department of State employee when I spoke to Congress. So, I get another job uh with an FFRDC.

I was going to work at DAHQ doing nuclear force planning. Pretty cool job. Yeah. And then last minute, um, a job posting goes up from the Department of State and I'm told about it. I kind of knew some of the people at the State Department program.

Uh, so that was a bit of a draw. If I feel like I need some protection, this could be a this could work out well in the long term. So, at the time it was kind of self-interest there, whereas like, yeah, if I need to, you know, cover my ass and write something um and have it not be redacted, this is a good place to do it. That's that's pre-planning, right? And that comes from a um a sense of a worry, a sense of fear in a way, like you have to protect yourself. State Department's good place.

You're already thinking ahead. You're not doing pre-pub so you can write a book or be in a movie. You're doing pre-pub to protect your ass. You got a new job at the State Department. you have in the back of your mind look if I decide to take it a step further this is a good place to do that right what's your job at state department and did you like it yeah so my job was uh on paper sort of similar to what I had done uh at the Pentagon working in countering WMD a cool job why was it cool so the state department one was mainly the the draw I mean is to travel um and is to travel to you know countries that I wanted to in in in my case in Europe um you know the you're interacting with the universities, industry groups, government sort of associations uh much more slower speed, much less dark and grim and uh in the real world as it were.

Was there ever a period where you're thinking maybe I'm just leaving this u UAP stuff behind me and and I'm no you were hooked. You were done. you were well I mean the subject matter obviously and then knowing what I knew about the situation in government um you know I don't think it's something that you know you have that level of of knowledge that you can leave behind morally you couldn't yeah morally also is it still to this day is endlessly fascinating right but my job head would have nothing to do with that and uh yeah I I I Uh it felt like at this point again I had not gone to Congress but I had met people who either were going to or had felt like you know okay somebody's it's handled people senior more senior than me who have connections and know what they're talking about or they got this so I can rest easy. Let it go. Mhm.

At what point did you read the transcripts of Sean Kurpatre speaking to the senators? Was that at State Department? No, that was at USDI. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out at at what point you decided, all right, you know, I tried to go to Congress. Uh obviously you knew that arrow wasn't the way to go. So you had to make a decision at some point.

I'm going to take some action some way. Yeah. So the the NDAA language comes out. Um you I recognize how serious that is. I'm talking with these people even though now I'm at uh uh states.

I'm still tracking what's going on. um and start getting the the the scuttlebutt that you know somebody big is going to come forward. Um and you know the implications of what they had to say are like not good. Uh and they're making these people who are more senior than me uh feel or talk about like you know that there's corruption involved that there is uh conspiracy criminal conspiracy involved. you know, nothing.

It's being whispered, but you know, things start to feel like, oh, maybe this isn't so uh just a cold war black program that was allowed to go on for too long and now it's just coming in from the cold all nice and cuteike. Something much darker, right? You see people like Dave Crush come forward and get slimed. You know that there are other whistleblowers who uh have come forward bits and pieces. Uh there's you have to realize at some point there's a lot of risk in in taking action. Yeah, I mean I went forwards in such close proximity to Gush that I didn't have or at that time I hadn't observed uh you know the the blowback.

It looked like from the outside that you know he he had some friction on on his way there but looked like he got to Congress was saying the right things and Congress was going to do something about it. There was a momentum. There was momentum. And you know, I at again at that time I was already uh in talks to go talk to Congress. Um just at that point, not so much uh like you know out of fear and desperation, just as like they're asking for people seems like they need it, right? Um no matter how small it seems like it's important.

And this person told me it was important. They valid this person I met with uh I met with one-on-one. I told him about this uh USAP, which at the time, you know, still to myself, I was like, I don't know if it's real or not. You say you've been to Congress and you know these things firsthand, like is this it? You said it was. Mhm.

Uh and yeah, so have the those interactions that we've already been over. Um where do things start going for me? Uh uh what's the phrase here? More serious. Mhm. um is after Congress uh after sorry after speaking to Congress as a whistleblower. Uh I interact with I continue to interact with this person who was trying or at least they told me they were trying to start a fund for whistleblowers to help get people out of the legacy program who wanted to speak but couldn't because they were both afraid for their life and their livelihood.

Mhm. And I thought, well, there's something I can help with. Um good at writing paper. um you know, we'll make this organization, I can contribute there. And so the the the honeymoon phase of uh you know, I I did my I spoke my piece and now it looks like I'm helping the good guys and things aren't that serious continues um after August of 2023.

uh the result of that is of sorry the result of gush and all that we get the UAP disclosure actu or the attempt to do it and so I think when that failed um was the first blow to uh that hope that you know things would be handled constitutionally constitutionally is there a point at which you you see let's call it the whistleblower community a small group of fairly small group of people who have different stories that you become disillusioned uh with them and with the their media contacts who are being fed bits and pieces of information now. Yes. Then no. Um there also wasn't as much media penetration or connection whatever you want to term it uh in those circles at least that I was you know a part of in those days. Did you consider going to a No.

No. I had no outreach, no connections to media. Uh, and I was not pursuing connections to media at all. And, you know, to be fair, you're kind of navigating all of this stuff, you know, seeking advice from people, trying to figure out what do I do? And um, and you're you're a smart guy and you you look at the world and you start reaching out to a couple people or they're being introduced to you like myself and you're kind of feeling it out too, like you know, what is the best path forward here? Yeah, that's so sort of what happens next is um the UAPDA fails. And before that, we get word it's going to fail, right? Um and this person tells me that Congress needs people to start fires to try to save the UAPDA.

I ask him, uh are you are you serious? Is Congress has told you to ask people to make some noise? Yeah. And try to save this thing. That person told me yes. And so then I started trying to find uh some media personalities who could potentially be trusted. One of my next steps which was well now I got to get something cleared but then set back in a different way which was well [ __ ] we still have all these people apparently who are in danger.

There's no help from the government. There's no help from Congress. There's no help from um Arrow Arrow. there's no help from people who say they care about humanity, but their actions don't bear that out. So, back to square one.

And for me, square one is going back and re-engaging with Congress. So, I I reach out um in that Yeah. I guess this would be winter of 24 23 around there. Back to my uh [ __ ] uh connection. And that person, I learned, had since moved on, and he connected me to the current uh person, current staff member for [ __ ] who's handled this, arranged a meeting in a few months cuz I told them, "Hey, I'm going to just first of all, I asked like, hey, did you get any of my testimony?" The answer was no.

Um, at least that was the claimed answer. So, I said, "Uh, well, did you get any notes?" Like, I know he took notes. Did you get notes of what I said? Nah. So, I Okay, you know what? I'm gonna write this all up for you guys. You have it and you can't lose it.

And um you're gonna guarantee to me that this is not just going to stay with [ __ ] It is going to go to SAS and it is going to go to Hask and it is going to go to HIPSY like it was promised before but never did. Those acronyms meaning for the Senate committees and the House committees that would deal with these classified sensitive stalker. You're like, "Fuck this. I'm writing it all down. Writing down.

I'm going to make it really your problem." Right? And you gave me amnesty. You want this? I'm giving it to you. Right. So I spend uh some weeks uh laboriously typing this out. Um you know hidden drives on encrypted drives using open source software only able only opening it when I know I'm not connected to anything on a new device.

Uh not a very fun drafting process, right? Um, and that's just the technical aspects of trying to be secure about it at this point. And I'm definitely under no illusions that the uh, US government some capacity knows about me. I'm mainly concerned about foreign intelligence. Mhm. Um, and their their possibility of collecting on on me.

I'm in DC, spy capital of the world. Uh, I I was very concerned about that and wanted to do even the writing of this the correct way. Uh so during that time I draft this uh I observe what's going on uh continues to go on the the the final death of UAP UAP Disclosure Act one and the attempt to get the second one which is totally watered down and not even worth our time to consider. Um, and I go and I have the meeting with [ __ ] Uh, give them the paper. Um, it's a much longer version of the report both in my analysis and the level of detail, additional detail in the evidentary evidentiary sections.

Mhm. um including the various compartments and programs that they could themselves uh look into to access the same information that I saw which is ridiculous that Congress has no access to. Mhm. Um gave all that to them. Uh then really had to press to even get to speak to Sask.

Eventually got to speak uh to SAS uh permanent staff at I believe the Rayurn office building. Um, then after I had met with both [ __ ] and Sask, I uh I uh or no, after I met with [ __ ] but before I finally met with Sask, I submitted a version of this report to the State Department cuz I uh after I gave it to them the first time, um they said, "Thank you very much." Um and then never heard again. Didn't even I mean, they're asking what's going on. They're asking for you to to come and they're asking for this and you're kick open doors right now. Please Exactly.

Uh so I decided to make myself a little dangerous and said, "Hey, I'm going to submit this for pre-pub review um to and I'm going to brief my leadership at State Department on this, which I did." Mhm. And I then after briefing them, I submitted it to pre-pub review and uh at the at the state department met with SAS, provided a a copy of the full report and at that time the cleared one um before that ever reached any media sources so that they knew what the media would see before anyone else. You know, doing what I thought was only fair. You know, you want you're our leaders. You want uh control.

You want this to go the right way. I'm giving you full insight into what my words are. You can tell me at any time to stop or what to change in my words. Nothing. Transparent, but also you ain't [ __ ] around anymore, right? Yeah.

No push back at all. None except for uh not after the house meeting never getting access to house at that time. You make the submission and no access to members still and that's where we start a process. But right. So you you make the submission, you get an answer back up.

What's it say? Uh you know, I get no redactions requested and essentially a one-word, sorry, one sentence answer. Uh you may proceed. Not exactly something that gives you a lot of confidence that all is well, but I mean it sounds like they're saying go ahead. We have no problem with it. Yeah.

Um I mean, we have the emails. you can read between the lines and also the tone. Um certainly nobody there was thrilled about what I was doing, right? But they weren't stopping you and um you know a lot of people heard about Doppser and that kind of thing and uh this is a very interesting way to go about it. You you get prepub through state department which later Sean Kurpatre became public made some disparaging comments about what gets passed through when it comes to going through state department. Doesn't matter.

Basically, it's a process for you to cover your ass and inform everybody and and say, "I'm not messing around. Here we go." And and you get you get it all written down. You get approved and one sentence, you know, email back that we've seen and and you don't have high level of confidence, right, of like, well, what does that mean? Can I move forward? So, so there you are. What happens next? I fly out to California and I meet with Michael Shelonburgger. In part three of our interview with the author of the Immaculate Constellation Report, what is it like to have um absolute knowledge that not only UFOs are are real, that we've been hiding that that our government has controlled that information away from human the base human population.

What I have learned is that we live in a dream, a carefully constructed reality. We make use of a science that is tightly controlled and suppressed and distorted. Who are they? Why are they here? Why don't they show us what's going on? I think I have a good degree of confidence that the reason they're here is us. I think life, especially sentient life, it's a precious thing. Um, and I think to some it might be a resource.