Are UAP a Control System? Jacques Vallée | The Sol Forum

Transcript

[Music] Okay. Okay. So, those are remarkable cases and and I'm going to ask you to um to relate them in a second to uh one of your core ideas which is that which is to summarize it is that UAP aren't what we think they are. that they're a kind of system uh that's in communication with us and is trying to according to you instruct us or condition us um uh to educate us in a sense so that that um we become different by virtue of experiencing them. And you you say that UAP may be uh a kind of one system of communication of a a broader meta meta system.

And I think by that you mean that the the system of communication or symbols uh changes over time and it changes in response to to human thought. So a member of soul her name is uh Orianda um uh raised a question of you know do you do you see new evidence for this hypothesis um such as these cases and and has it suggested uh this evidence that maybe the system is dealing with us differently. >> So that results from discussions I had actually back in in France. I mean from the beginning when we we started I started building databases uh based on French cases and cases in Europe uh not American cases especially although there were a few that had been published in the books by Donald Kho Repel and and some others and um discussing it with with people in the Soban and people in French universities that that idea of is it a control system came up and that's a that's a the question that any scientist should ask you know I mean what is it I mean we we don't have one or two or 10 or 20 or 100 cases we have many thousand dozens of thousands of cases so it's doing something. It's not hiding.

It's in fact in full view. Uh there are many cases where somebody's driving on the highway and something lands in front of the car. Okay. So this is not this is not somebody hiding. Uh this is very much in your face and the um so the the idea that out of our conversations came that you know is it a control system but people have misunderstood what I meant by that in in as you know I I've published it in my my books in the in the 80s and so on.

have continued to to to work on it because that's one of the things that a good computer AI study could give us an answer to. Okay. So that's what the one of the purposes of bringing AI into it uh from from the beginning. Now um a control system can is not necessarily something that humans are designing. Um you know like uh a set of signals on on on the roads is a control system.

We have you know green lights and red lights and we have different signals that tell you how to drive around and so on. And that's that's a control system. We have uh lots of of things around us. You know, a university is a control system. Um you don't necessarily know the rules.

You have to discover the rules. You know, I certainly remember as a PhD student, you know, what does it mean to become a doctor in science? Okay. Um how do you do it? Well, there is no recipe. There's no nothing that says if you take this course and this course and you pass them then you become a doctor. That's not true.

Um you have to find an environment, you have to find a subject, you have to design new research and so on. So uh there are a number of things around us that are control systems that uh we take for granted. um the um Jacqu Berier who was a extraordinary French um philosopher and and writer and publisher and during World War II had been a spy as one of the first scientific spies uh of our time. He was looking for, you know, heavy water and he was looking for the source, the the the place where the the V2 rockets were being built and and was one of the the the the spies that located Penamund. And so he had been he he told me, you know, a concentration camp is a control system.

I mean it's like a prison. There is a fence you can you cannot go out. If you try to get out you you will be be killed. But and as as you may may know he was captured by the Germans. He was tortured a number of times and was very lucky to finally survive World War II.

and he had survived with a a fairly amazing sense of of of humor that had helped him keep his intelligence and his mind through what he suffered. And um he said in in the camp where he was interned, one of them, Madhousen, uh one time they were astonished to see that the the SS, the Germans were bringing in the firemen from Munich. The firemen from Munich had decided to go on strike in the middle of World War II. And the um the Germans didn't like them and they arrested them and put them in the concentration camp with the French prisoners and American prisoners and um they kept them there uh for three weeks and then they released them. And he said that's when I understood that a concentration camp could be a university that you would go there without knowing why and you would learn something and then you may or may not come out or you may or may not be killed or you may or may not be burned to death and the the system will control that.

Okay. So we have the so he said the question you have to ask about UFOs is is it number one is it a natural system or an artificial system control system and if if it is a control system um is it open or closed? In other words, are we being taken over by a species from somewhere in space that's vastly more intelligent than we are? You know, as uh Dr. Nolan says, you know, people who have had 10, you know, re scientific revolutions or a hundred or a thousand and come here with superior science to do something. Um and uh in which case uh you know it's a closed system. We we're like prisoners.

I mean something is going to happen to us and there is very little we can do or is it an open system where we can in fact communicate with it and if we can communicate with it then the question for me as an information scientist is uh what are the modalities of the interaction you know it's not just can we learn their language and they say you know we come in peace to save mankind or something or we we will give you you know the cure for cancer or something. I I don't think it's at that level. I think it's a meta system. It's not a system. And that's my fear.

If if we can circle back to your earlier question about you know about NIDS and about BAS what we did for the government and what we did for the defense intelligence agency half of the budget was spent developing you know a super database and uh we don't know where it went I mean I'm not clear to know where it went uh and but that would be a very interesting question because the The people who are getting it are getting raw data which we have very well organized all in English. So they have the luxury of you know we've translate we had five translators from French, English, uh Portuguese, Russian you know everything was translated in a single structure across 14 databases. That's what we need to answer the question about the control system and it's not being done. >> Right. Right.

whole team that we had trained to work on it. >> Yes, that's very very clear, Jacqu that it's >> so to rebuild that will take the next 10 or 15 years >> and nobody says that to Congress and I think Congress should hear it because it's our money. >> So Jacques, sorry to interrupt you, but you've said so much that I want I want people to appreciate that you've said something very profound and I want us to explore this. No, but you can start with a technical question and it you know it when you ask is it a control system that's a big question. I know it's a big question, you know, I but a lot of our members asked questions about the control system and they keyed into something uh very significant you said.

Um before going to the next question though, I want to I want to reiterate something you said because I think it'll help the conversation and help people understand you. Um uh you you you asked at one point whether the system is open or closed and and you said additionally I I believe if it's open that it would be possible to communicate back to it and it sounds to me like that's the key question for you is if you can understand what what the system of symbols is or the modalities of communication um then you can understand enough to engage in some kind of communication or at least give some kind of uh response to show that you understand. So the so then the question and and uh we have a member named named uh uh Jacqueline who's who has asked this is could the system be stimulating us um you know provided there is such a system could it be stimulating us to interact with it um more as uh subjects or agents than as something like animals or or objects? Um, is it is it looking for us to try to interact with it as as equals or with parity? Well, she um what I saw in the note you gave me is she was also asking is it a control system because we think it is and that's a very interesting question uh because we react to the UFO phenomenon or the UAP phenomenon and you know at at this point When I think about what I'm going to do next in this research, if if I'm given the, you know, the opportunity to to to uh to live a little longer, I I I'm not going to go back and write anymore computer programs. There are better people to to do that now. They have the data and you know, we're in a different phase now.

We're in a whole different system. I have the luxury of doing some experiments I wanted to do for a long time. So if if you think you are inside the control system, there are things that you can do or or if you think you're inside the simulation, you know, which was a new a new concept that I initially rejected and then you know RER and and others have brought it back to the forefront and we have to ask that at the same time. Um can we test it? How would you test it? Well, if you know I'm I'm here in in in my apartment and the the temperature is constant in this apartment, you know, and so this could but outside I can see it's cold or I can see it's the sun is out and it's warm and how come it's constant here, you know? So this would lead me to think that there is a control system, namely a thermostat that is somewhere. So I can start looking around the walls and if I see a dial, I can turn it uh or I could start a fire and and see what happens, you know, see if the temperature changes.

If the temperature doesn't change, then I know I'm inside the control system. So the we can do the same thing with UFOs but we have to react. We have to number one acknowledge that it exists and number two we have to react to it. [Music]