Garry Nolan, Ph.D. on The Material Science of UAP

Transcript

[Music] so again I want to thank everybody for coming uh really appreciate it and um I I forgot this morning to mention Dave grush uh Dave can't be here because of travel that he's doing right now but um I want to remind everybody that he's uh you know he was a partner in setting this up um and we're proud to be associated with him just so everybody knows um and so Dave if you're listening [Applause] so what's inevitable inevitably we're going to come across something out there that is uh Alien I mean this's just be serious about it um or at least life let's say um but how do we engage it and how do we begin and so you know I think we start with the problem is everything is made of Stardust right so how do we approach this um we don't understand the rules frankly of how it all goes together you know as a biologist I study the basic gears and principles of what goes on inside of a cell and then we basically figure out how it works um try to um and so I think of potential UAP materials as something that I can can approach with the same methodologies that I have with uh cancer research it's straightforward we just if to analyze it but at what level do you analyze it so because we don't understand the rules of how it all goes together and you know if you if you think about uh avi's work with the meteor from 2014 um which seems to have a structural Integrity that defies at least a good portion of the astrophysics community's desires um and then you think about what Kevin spoke about obviously somebody has an understanding of physics that we don't but that means that they're putting things together in ways that we don't understand how they're doing it so let's back up here so technology invention Stanford and questions from exobiology to Silicon Valley and biotech so in the department where I got my PhD uh there was a gentleman by the name of Joshua leberg and he' got the Nobel Prize for uh being the first to show how bacteria have sex um and so uh he was the chairman of the department um but he was interested in what's out there and so he pioneered the field of exobiology with one of the first papers on the subject um and then he started proposing the Viking project uh and then uh he was appointed oversight of that and he helped design it at the same time he was uh he was recruiting other scientists uh to the department a couple of which I'll talk about in a moment so this is Lenard herzenberg Leonard was my PhD adviser along with Lee herzenberg they were a husband wife team they were inseparable um and he invented the fluorescence activated cell order which is a remarkable device device uh that allows you to separate cells based on fluoresence and when you get a blood draw and you something comes back and say you have this many cbcs or this many whatever it's using this instrument um and but interestingly he capitalized on the engineers who were still kind of they they sort of they Viking had been launched or was around and but they had this amazing expertise to design things at the micro scale so he he capitalized that that flowmetry today because of those patents is a multi-billion dollar industry it is the root of all immunology and all the things that I've done have frankly been replicating many of the things that that uh Lee and Len have done but at more expansive scales importantly to get that technology out right I mean there's like this big thing be in academics you know socialism capitalism you know it's free for everybody is whatever so but what Stanford realized along with Neils reamers who was the uh head of the Stanford office of Technology licensing who with Bertram Roland they come up with a very unique patenting scheme that enabled access while not giving away the the farm literally also in that department at the same time was Stanley Cohen uh Stanley Cohen uh was the uh basically the Cohen Boyer patents that started the Biotech Industry so I rotated with st in fact I came to Stanford to work with him and but I ended up being more interested in the stuff going on in lenslet so $35 billion overall so far okay and that was that was a lot of extra money to the Department of uh of genetics was one of the richest departments on campus using the flow cytometer was this guy Vernon oi he was my uh lab Mentor in in lens lab he was a postto more than than that he again had been an amazing inventor so he along with Len and others uh invented what are called humanized antibodies and those humanized antibodies have gone on to revolutionize cancer uh and autoimmune disease work the impact there is in the trillions of dollars not just the sales of them but trillions and the lives saved okay so here you have a question a simple question that set up a chain reaction of opportunity a synchronistic chain reaction right people right time all in this one Department because of the closeness of those people right and that proximity and access to information is what drives it's the fuel of science it's very important so and it all started with the question are we alone right that that started it that is the reason all of this is here right so let's jump right into it as you all know I've been interested in alleged UAP materials so how would you analyze materials from a UAP well like I said before it's you take it apart piece by piece you try to understand the components and you try to ask the question why is this component here next to that component and what might they be doing with each other so but it's not just about that it was about that there's data out there that something unusual is observed and the speakers this morning went over this and the evidence is collected in a crime scene and I got interested in it because of this and so but as it turned out some of this evidence appeared to come from uaps is it the steering wheel is it their version of a of a you know television screen what is it what do they leave behind and why do they leave it behind is the question so how do we analyze it so I mean I won't go into all of the of the uh this whole slide but I mean it's really about using the tools we already have and I happen to have M laboratory tools that allow me to look at Metals um I'm not a metallist but I play one on TV um but it's uh I had the tools and I had the interest and I had a good friend by the name of jacqu valet who brought me some of these materials cuz he said hey let's uh let's look at this and I should say right up front jacqu and Hal POF Eric Davis col kellerer uh all those people frankly rescued me from the uh the rabbit hole of ufology uh because I was wandering and they said here's here's a guy who might be he might we might be able to work with him so it's all about and also functional analysis just knowing what a thing How It's Made is not the same thing as knowing how it functions so but it needs that interdisciplinary team that what happened in the department of genetics okay so how do do science right um so where do we start this is that that's who I see when I look in the mirror so where do we start let's get this show on the road that's chat GPT I love it um so the first case and this is the case that we published uh in uh basically last year and it was with Larry lmy uh a a post do of mine and um uh and uh well jacqu sorry and so again it's about the evidence you can't just take anybody's claim that something is the truth so this is one of the best and most widely observed at the time uh of cases um multiple Observers Etc I won't go through them all it's not necessary but uh you know a hovering object and then something seems to sloth off and drop to the ground and some people were like they were literally only with about 500 or so feet from it so the police luckily were called um and uh and here's you know here's one of The Observers down here in red another Observer another Observer and this is where they ran to and what did they find this is one of the actual original photo graphs um we have them um and uh it's a big pool of metal that was in the process of cooling okay so how did that how did that get there so you know they went through uh all of the possible reasons that could get there from hoaxes through thermite through a meteoric crash I mean who would have think this is a meteor it would have left a hole um space debris re-entry all of these things were dismissed so uh but of course of course it's just something sitting in the in the literature um and this is where we published that paper um and just you know so there's always this question I get about reputational damage so suzun Jang is on this paper he's now Professor assistant professor at Harvard over in the medical school didn't hurt him they fought for him there's suzon right there so the first technology that we brought to this is the one of the ones that was developed in my lab actually by mikeangelo who's here um Michelangelo reincarnation and I nobody is I mean when he showed up in my lab uh he was I thought he was crazy cuz he was all excited about something that he thought we could do and I thought you know what it sounds possible so let's do it so we took these materials this was we had a big chunk of this material we took five different pieces of it very small pieces because these things require tiny amount amounts of material to study because you don't want to look at just one thing if you can as long as if it's if it's relatively inexpensive you want to look at multiple places you want to as we say when we're looking at the at the tumor immune interface we want to sample the we want to sample the ecosystem so took multiple things just to make sure so you know the first thing as you all know we went and looked at isotope ratios we didn't find anything they looked absolutely normal um but I I noticed something in these signatures and those are the metals that came out is that the ratios of the elements were different from one to the other right so that means it was not homogeneous somebody didn't put it in a blender and make a you know make a a uniform distribution I mean if you're making a material for something and it is different in different places uh then you're going to have structural issues where one part might be uh less or more bendy than another or more likely to crack Etc so that was interesting that means when this stuff when it was dumped there however it was but we'll take the word of the cuz it's fun right I mean speculation ends up being a headline Stanford professor says Harvard professor says you know no it's speculation it's just a game to play in your mind so you have these different ratios which means that before it was dumped out it was incompletely mixed so what does that mean how and why would you do that um I mean were you offloading something that was problematic you know we've all heard the stories about how these things might wobble and then something happens somebody another one shows up and they fix it and then they they go off merrily ever after so uh and these were just the ratios uh and and there they are so so they're not slightly different they're completely different right so depend everywhere you look it's it's I I've explained it before like you have chocolate and uh vanilla ice cream along with strawberry you let it melt you give it a couple of Twirls and where you where wherever you look there's going to be a different ratio so but so what can we conclude from this it's clearly the result of an industrial process it's not the machine maybe it's exhaust maybe who who knows we know um it had incomplete mixing of components that's a conclusion right I always talk about data and conclusions that you know it's about the data not the conclusion get another scientist to agree with the data that the data is real and now you get to ask them why the onus is not entirely on you right there's there was no signs of any technology and no exotic isotope ratios okay so you know can we look deeper I mean that's a pretty high that's from from I mean from a you know a structural analysis point of view if I'm talking about Atomic you know machines this is like the 30,000 fot but it's what was available at the time and it it wasn't really something that I had uh thought about much but then you know can we do it this can we see can we see smaller and why would we want to do that well like with the immune system in cancer cells the the proximity of where one is relative to another actually predicts the outcome of the cancer and whether the therapy will work or not so we went to this instrument this is atomic probe tomography and atomic probe tomography is actually a very wellknown and used technology but it's expensive and there's only a few of them around um but what it does is it literally takes the sample apart atom by atom about a th000 atoms a second and it figures out where the threedimensional uh it's three dimensional placement in that so so here's the here's the idea you create an electric field electric field differential you set it up so that you are evaporating the sample and where it lands on the detector can be triangulated back to where it originated on the sample and so and what do you get from that you get a map of where things are so there's this is the worlds at least public first uh UAP alleged material uh studied at the atomic level and collected at the atomic level so this is uh the Council Bluffs it's a tiny tiny thing I mean it's like it's like uh literally two or three microns cubed but there's millions of atoms in there so I mean I knew that I wasn't going to find any structures but this was an easy thing to start with uh and then you look at the you look at the complexity of what's in there so the first thing that for instance they were trying to explain this single way as as it's just Industrial Steel well it's not Industrial Steel now we now we literally have things that industrial Steels don't normally contain but now we can go in and look closer so here for instance this is 3D now we're inside the structure I've taken away the iron which is so prevalent as to be would obscure everything now we can see the position of where everything is right again this is just a trial but now we get to see potential structure so I would say that if we're going to study any of these other materials that seem to have novel properties uh this would be the way to do it I had hoped to do the Bismuth magnesium case uh before we we tried it but it it fell apart in the instrument under the stress of the local forces it was just too to crumbly unfortunately there's a way to fix that but we couldn't do it in time for this um because that would have been cool that I think that would have got a bunch of us jumping up and down but I'm going to do it anyway it's coming um so you can look at all the individual atoms you can't really see it so much so those are uh the things that I showed you on the on the other page those are the individual atoms um uh oh sorry individual elements uh there's some hints of uh potential differences here um but it's such early stages that um I don't dare repeat I I don't dare say it until I repeat it there's a lot more I'm not an expert yet in AP but I will be um you know in this and by the way this was uh so the individual who's been helping me is uh Alex Bolton you've seen him around so uh he actually helped create uh all this analysis and because we just got the data Friday and while I was busy frantically dealing with Stanford administrative messes um he he basically saved my bacon on that but there's data right now this is data um material shows no sign of Technology the material is clearly the result of an industrial process and it was incompletely mixed okay so why again that's the the question you ask all the time when you see data it's like why why why would you do it what could have generated it and why would you dump it in the middle of a field in a small farming town in Iowa I don't know I don't know the answers okay so that's one case there's another famous case ubatuba 1950s there's a primary witness but we don't have it never nobody ever had access to the primary witness but a Brazilian journalist who received the evidence uh and again through uh the offices of of jacqu I was able to get access to some of this stuff um and this is actually what I don't quite understand is because as you'll see from the result it was claimed to be pure magnesium what I was given was not magnesium so but we have two things called moisture a and moisture B that's Spanish for sample I think somebody said um told me and then this is the instrument that we used highly accurate Mass spectrometer um and just you know this is how this is the beginning of sort of how science is done you you don't want to measure different things on different days because you want the experiment to be done under the most similar conditions that you can so those samples two examples of each of those samples along with a a zoo of other things that that jock happened to have um were put on this and then we did the analysis and I remember sitting there when they we they printed out the data I was like I don't understand this I mean I hoped this something like this would happen but I never understood it um I still don't so one of the samples claimed samples has you know pretty much exactly the natural thing we had two you know two shards of each the other one was way off way off I mean just no doubt um okay so why 1950s Isotopes if you mentioned Isotopes to a 1950s crowd they'd Duck and Cover right because Isotopes and still humans use the like one of the most important things we do is we make nuclear bombs out of them um of course they're used uh in other for medical purposes and tracing um but we don't have any chemical or material reasons to use them so okay so what's what's going on so one had not why change the isotope ratios back then it was extraordinarily expensive to do these kinds of separations it's still expensive I mean my lab orders extremely small amounts of different isotopes uh from the periodic from the the lanthanide series we use them as tags in our biology experiments CU each of them is unique um so for the uninitiated what are isotopes again this is thank you chat GPT and it made some things up of course but you know um the idea here is you know humans work with elements but somebody is playing with Isotopes so why would you play with Isotopes because they're supposed to be the same that's what I was taught in chemistry well it turns out that's wrong now people are starting to look at Isotopes because you have an extra Neutron in the element and that changes the electronic configuration of the of the orbitals just slightly and so in the right circumstances having that difference would be sufficient to make a better Catalyst and so people pharmaceutical companies and others are starting to use this starting to understand that hey there something interesting here silicon some of the Isotopes of silicon make better Cubit holders that last longer than others than the other three okay so there it is I mean it's it's there plants use it actually it's it's really fascinating um so there's something yet to be understood okay so this was the first time that I had gone beyond just magnesium uh looking at the UB Tu material and even though we we looked at the Magnesium because is that instrument that I just showed you can see down to the parts per million um we were looking at that level when I looked at this it was almost entirely pure silicon okay well what's the natural state of silicon uh sand silicon oxide quartz things like that um it doesn't come prepackaged as 99 yeah 99.999 395 you just don't get it so why is somebody tossing that level of Purity around uh because again it would be that would be expensive to make um so why would you why would you do it so again we go in and we're collecting this data and by the way I'm showing all of this because all of this will be going eventually on the web and I want to do this with every material that I can get my hands on legally like I'll be like Lou and and Chris sneaking something out the back they weren't I'm I'm sorry Chris is going to kill me um good um and so again look at the look at the numbers there of the percent there's lots of other things in there but the vast majority is silicon the reason why it shows as lower is because I broke it down into the Silicon um uh Isotopes and they're their natural levels so here again is the 3D where we can go inside and you know so one of the next things to do is to say well is there is there any sort of strange placement of the atom so those are the three uh nucleotides and is there a likelihood for one thing to be near another and that's what we do again in Immunology we look for certain cell types that are more or less likely to associate with each other and that tells you that huh if that happened above statistic iCal chance then there's probably a reason for it things don't happen usually in biology by coincidence um the two samples are pretty much within statistical certainty to be similar to each other so that's interesting um so even though they came from separate chains of custody uh there's enough data here at least to say that whoever prepared this stuff uh either had identical preparation techniques or it came and was broken and given into two chains of custody again it's data no sign of Technology but certainly signs of an industrial process and that's important so I mean and I'm I'm saying this thing about the Silicon if anybody can tell me why pure silicon should be thrown around a beach in you know Brazil I want to hear it you know um so the material is was clearly a result of an industrial process it wasn't found randomly nobody found it on the side of a road it was associated with an event and that's important here and uh because that coincidence it doesn't prove that it's anything but it but it makes it to me more interesting unusual levels of pure silicon with contaminants so again what what would you do so the the the event was somebody saw something with supposedly with lights and then it dropped something which exploded okay why right what why what what's going on I don't understand um because on the one hand we have these metals that drop I have I have another sample of something from Australia uh there's a couple of other a couple of other uh events um that actually are dropping molten objects so there's a reason to offload something again I'm speculating there's a reason to offload something but every time they do it it it ends up being slightly different so does that tell you that there's many ways to achieve a similar goal right so that's kind of sort of back engineering the thought process of why would you why would you do something like this so here's another case very famous case sakuro again this is something from from jacqu uh on an Indian Reservation the uh police officer was in was an Indian was Indian um he's driving along uh he hears a noise he sees something a shiny object in a field he observes little people outside of the object the object takes off kind of with a burst of flame um you know and of course when people tried to debunk it he's they said he he saw the star something or other you know he's a he's a trained Observer he's a policeman right so um he didn't want to talk about it so he wasn't seeking publicity he just did it so I so jacqu had a piece he gave it to me um and you know again we take an electron microscopy everything looks like it's you know from another planet uh under uh under electron microscope um very simple aluminum zinc mostly and some contaminants but the aluminum and the zinc are in different places so this is at a a a distance so there it is so there's the aluminum on the top there's the zinc on the bottom or vice versa no zinc is zinc's the green yes but it's it's differently distributed it's the contaminants that are interesting that's what I'm interested in cuz they're kind of a signature they is are they uniformly distributed throughout the thing meaning or are they somehow next to each other so we looked at that so now if I look in the aluminum on the top again it's incredibly pure it has like a single oxygen molecule amidst a million I don't know who does that and why would you do it it's attached to a zinc thing underneath which has some aluminum in it but look at how it's non-uniformly distributed right there's like a cluster R it over here is that because they have a junky recipe they didn't mix it right it just is but why don't know again this case I mean this is clear clear sign of engineering I mean the interface between those things is is like exact down to the atom it's cuded the result of an industrial process so this of course is not the only way to look at atoms or looking at materials at an ultra high resolution there's many other of these kinds of devices uh that do different things but none of them have the uh exact ude that an AP has because they provide at the five or so angstrom scale and they're getting better um and so I won't go into all of the others but why why do I show a table like that um because we're actually starting a new initiative uh starbust Stardust repository taking a page from AI everything is made of Stardust setting up standardized IED testing so basically creating a Federation of other scientists to whom we can go and pass the material along because doing all the things you want to do would cost a bazillion dollars so you have to have other people doing it more or less for free um or at least at at Cost uh I mean by the way that thing that I all those things I showed you that was $40,000 to do that at a service center down in San Jose that does it and uses it for microelectron deep vetting make sure we're no one's sending us junk uh and again it's it's about I can't look at everything and know the answers but I want to get the data out there so everybody can maybe somebody will will do it maybe my nephew here who's interested in science will do it um I'll help him so uh organized under a public umbrella operation maybe that might induce somebody who has something claimed on the inside to bring it out and say hey why don't you help us with this right and actually AI did exactly this with the materials that they brought back from um the South Pacific you know sending it around to other people but now I I I want to standardize it and give other people they don't H other people don't need to participate in what we're doing but I want to put out sets of protocols by which other people can do it so they don't have to reinvent the wheel so you know funded by gifts or grants help please um and uh you know the data freely available but I mean we do want to also respect and this is the biology Community has gone through this at Great depth uh where um you get these big consortia you collect the data everybody's freaking out because they want to write the paper um and so you got to give them time to write the paper uh but there's there's at the end of it uh the deadlines as you know we we public we put it out there publicly um after uh one or two years and that's fine because frankly collecting the data is the easy part understanding it's the hard part you know we spend months with bioinformatics and thinking about it trying to figure it out so you know I'm imagining now 30 years from now and this is my warehouse uh where I've collected all of these materials and actually we've used some of them to help analyze those materials right is there a discovery to be made so uh this I think is an important Endeavor I can't do it all I'm not a metallist but I think there's lots of I get now increasing numbers of emails from people saying how can I help I'm getting the sign I'm done thank [Applause] [Music] you