APEC Open Mic: 8/18

Transcript

welcome to APAC open mic it is August 17th and I'm your moderator Tim Ventura I want to give a big thank you to everybody who's joining us on today's call along with everybody watching us on YouTube so as a reminder today's session is for open discussion in ad hoc presentations we're not scheduling presentations in advance we do have a couple of folks who I am hoping are going to give us some updates one of those is Jared Yates Jared and I were actually on a trip to Reno a couple of weeks ago uh and uh we we found some interesting stuff about Dr fedar winterberg and uh I am also hoping that James Woodward and Curtis horn give us an update and some of their latest runs uh I saw them uh let me see about three four weeks ago now and they are doing absolutely amazing work um and then we have a lot of other stuff going on as well Mark soal got a new microscope and he is doing in-depth analysis on Arts Parts as well is continuing work on his dnp stuff so we have a lot of stuff going on and that is just what I know about in terms of the the labs that we usually work with uh you can view conference replays details and speaker info on our website at alt propulsion domcom um during the ad hoc presentations please try and save those questions for after the presenter uh when they finish we are we're trying not to enforce you know like um too much structure there so you can jump in if you feel it's appropriate just try not to interrupt you can raise your hand in zoom using option y on Mac or alt y on Windows and I'm going to do admit all there real quick okay and you can also type your questions into chat we'll try and get those as they scroll up Mark soall is here today with me he is going to be my uh guest host he's going to help me with this because we have a lot of stuff going on so one of the changes that we have made is we're asking everyone to have their camera on and then of course the microphone off unless you're speaking uh and the camera on is so that we can do introductions we're going to go through and just brief right like we're talking 15 to 30 seconds who you are and what your favorite project is today I think that's probably a great place to start so that's kind of where things are starting out and uh let me let me take it off spotlight I will put it on let me see put it on gallery view actually there we go and I think we are all set okay so let me see uh folks can unmute themselves hopefully I've got this all set up correctly why don't I start with Mark Soo he is in my top left screen sir brief intro okay uh Mark soal here Falcon space I'm in hawthor New Jersey working on anti-gravity Technologies of varying types as you can see I put on a timer for myself this is going to be for everyone as well just to keep everyone honest and uh keep everything flowing that's awesome okay okay well let's go uh let me see let me go to Dr James woodwork next uh let me see Jim let me let me ask you to unmute there hi there Jim Woodward I've been in the business a long time maybe you've heard of me uh Curtis and I and Michelle BRS primarily along with PA March David Jenkins chriso bauma David matys are working on so-called mock effects uh Mass breast Mass fluctuations that can be induced by accelerating something while it's internal energy is changing I've got some results from today to show you Curtis I'm going to is Curtis on Tim yeah well Jim I I am not sure I think I don't think he's on quite yet but let me come back to him let we're we're going to run through our introductions real quick and then I will come back to you guys for updates okay I've got doubtless use of my 30 seconds thank you sir thank you okay let me go to Drew in sunny Florida uh Drew County Florida about 30 miles north of the Kennedy Space Center working on asymmetrical electrostatic propulsion along with Dr Charles buer and we've got a update if anybody wants to hear it later in the program awesome thank you sir uh let me go to Dennis Lee next Dennis Welcome Back Sir you I actually didn't know whether I would be here today but uh I have a short attendance for this uh this conference but anyway Dennis Lee um a former NASA employee at GD space fight Center I say former because I finished up my task last week on that so I'm I'm 100% pretty much 100% time on my NSF work which is a propellantless um uh cam Drive is what it is I presented to aiaa last or two weeks ago successfully it was it was really good good session but I look forward to our discussion thank you sir uh let me go to hfk next welcome back sir thank you uh Henry and uh I visited my local drug dealer and got one of these last night uh from Micro Center Proto board and I'm going to be tinkering to see if I can uh Let the Smoke Out wonderful wonderful thank you let me go to zolan next welcome uh thank you my name is Zan I'm originally from Hungary I do travel a lot uh between Hungary and the us right now I'm actually from um uh near the Croatian Hungarian border uh these days most of my times are taken up by technical investments in the stock market um I will drop in the chat I have um a big pocket of investments in two companies in ion which is dealing with um Quantum Computing and the other one is uh um intuitive machines uh the guys who sent up the um um um uh Moon um uh uh uh spacecraft this February uh my major interest in physics and uh as I said it like two occasions ago I did my um uh thesis scene uh slowing down the speed of light about uh 20 1820 years ago wonderful thank you thank you Zan okay let me go to melage next hi my name is mikoi I'm new to this thing I basically my profession Al is is I'm designing A6 okay nothing to do but I figured uh I have an idea about uh pushing against Quantum form which I'm trying to vet and I would like to talk to as many people as as as possible I had some in input from from David and I would like to basically continue my testing the idea is is strange I'm really skeptical but the test results are positive that's why I'm I'm here wonderful thank you thank you and yeah I pushing on quantum foam is that that is a major idea so I'm I'm all for that let's get into that later let me go to Brad next yeah go for it Brad hi I'm Brad I'm from northern BC Canada and I'm just a fanboy um one of you is the real life zephram Cochran and My Future Self would regret not seeing this progress and my favorite project is the origa drive ah wonderful wonderful that is not I'm not the zephram Cochran that that's it's probably Mark but yeah not me so uh let me go to Michael Boyd next Michael welcome back sir thank you hi I'm Mike Boyd um I live in soel California that's s o qu L not Southern California and uh I've been my um I wrote a paper resolving the extra dimensions for Gravity basically uh I did some experiments and found that gravity was strong close up and there were two forms of it um my paper published a couple days ago and I Triple E sensors journal and so I'm just kind of celebrating that took a long time awesome well thank you Michael thank you uh let me see let me go to Richard L next and I don't see oh there we go okay hey Richard Welcome Back Sir okay make sure I'm not muted this time so uh yeah mechanical engineer I'm working on um solving free energy um I also am getting pretty interested in this propulsion I did build a propulsion device um so and I do have an understanding on um uh U UAP you know stuff that I read like 20 some years ago awesome okay well thank you thank you uh let me go to Eric Ryder next uh oh wait what Mark timer reset it reset to the the grandstand music put it back on beep let me go to Eric Ryder next Eric welcome sir Eric is gonna be doing a presentation on August 31st also yeah go for it sir good good well yes Eric Ryder I'm from Pacifica California I have experiments that refute quantum mechanics and uh what I'd like to do is quickly uh later here to uh show like a slide from either of two lectures I have two different kinds of lectures one that uh emphasizes the history of uh quantum mechanics and like how did it go wrong I can explain that because but I have is very controversial the history uh uh look at it is important or I could do it from the standpoint of the experiments so I'd like to ask your group which way they would like to hear my lecture yeah well and yeah later on if you want to run through a slide or something like that that would be great and again August 31st I think I've got you on the schedule I'm working on that in fact that's after after we get done tonight I have to go get that page published so uh let me let me go to Ken L next Ken welcome you're you're muted sir all right can you hear me can now y yeah my name is Ken Ly I'm uh sort of new to the uh uh conferences I'm working on a couple of presentations that I'll have to uh run by and see if anyone's interested uh I'm in uh Huntersville uh North Carolina down by Charlotte awesome Ken thank you thank you and thank you for I know you've been collaborating with some of the guys too so thank you for that as well uh let me see let me go to TCT n uh that would be me uh my name is Trevor sorry about he Trevor tag um I am um I I'm a PhD candidate at uh William and Mary I do not work in Advanced propulsion they don't offer that as a research option uh I'm in cold Adam trapping but uh I would say uh late in life uh James Woodward's work uh very much inspired me to go to college and get me to where I'm at now I would uh I would like to be able to work in Advanced propulsion once I have that PhD in hand wonderful wonderful and I actually I used a little known feature to rename you Trevor in the oh thank you yeah yeah uh well thank you sir let me go to Brendan next Brendan welcome back man hello everybody um yeah my name's Brendan magnam um I live in the Pacific Northwest I'm uh very interested in active discussions um with um people uh D Daniel Davis and a few others about SpaceTime Mentor engineering uh gravity modification kind of looking at all this all these things and trying to consolidate them um uh as far as projects go I'm most excited about um Curtis horn and um Jim Woodward's work as well as especially uh Andrew origama and uh and Charles be pretty exciting stuff awes thanks for having me thank you Brandon uh let me go to let me see uh go to JH next sir oh oh let me let me click ask to unmute sorry about that there we go hi my name is John I'm in the Seattle area and uh have many similar interests to Brendan in uh we're we're trying to organize a Apec a book club of sorts to review patents and electrogravitics and in theories like that uh so uh yeah that's my story awesome well thank you John thank you and welcome uh let me go to David Chester next David welcome back sir I'm David Chester I'm a theoretical physicist I got my PhD in 2018 uh I fell in love with Quantum field Theory and now I'm kind of looking back at more controversial claims free energy alternative propulsion just trying to see how if it can fit in uh with the modern experiments because there's kind of this bifurcation you know if we go back to these ether ideas or something like that then we also need some framework that can actually match all the experimental evidence so I'm kind of looking in Quantum electrodynamics and trying to see uh how far that can be pushed towards some more controversial claims and see what's different thanks wonderful thanks David H let me go to Jared Gates next sir yep J Yates Pacific Northwest uh I have been working on Alexi checkov gravier for a while I've worked on a couple other alternative propulsion ideas that deal with the field interactions um I am very thoroughly obsessed with the flying triangles and trying to understand uh government reverse engineering efforts specifically engineering efforts that occurred during the late 70s to the early 90s um that is my primary focus so anti-gravity and UFOs this is our tribe right yeah yeah well Jared thank you and just as a reminder for everybody Jared conned me into going to like high altitude Reno last week so he had this cushy task he was scanning papers he was kicking back Margaritas he was chatting with winberg's family and I was like hauling boxes in like 150 degree heat it was horrible so so that that was that was last week but he found some good material and so I I'm hoping he could share some with us today let me go to Ryan wood next sir uh well thanks Tim uh Ryan wood I'm in Colorado uh my day job as the CEO of electric Fusion systems but uh I've been interested in gravity and working on a review of a variety of gravity projects I have deep expertise in crashed UFOs written several books and um uh I've I'm looking forward to engaging more with your group well and thank you thank you and welcome back and we trust me we will have on for future presentations so uh let me go to Rick meller next Rick welcome sir oh thank you Tim uh my name is Rick Mueller I live in New Jersey uh I like to come on APAC I came on three and a half years ago I haven't met a session a have not missed the session I meet a lot of people here and I like to talk to them about anti-gravity basically I like all the uh presentations on anti-gravity I talk to a lot of people around the world about it uh and that's about it well Rick thank you thank you let me go to Dan risto next Dan welcome well thank you I'm just a supporter and lover of uh expanding the brain being 52 years ago a math major I didn't get much use except in the finance World which is what I do so I come here to get have Mark and Drew and Jared keep my brain fresh making my dream dreams back 50 years ago come true with what you guys are doing so I'm just here to support and and uh keep my brain fresh how about that that's awesome Dan that's awesome they keep my brain fresh too so I'm I'm right there with you let me go to Leonardo next oh let let me ask you to unmute Leonardo welcome sir okay leonaldo I'm I'm Leonardo Riva I'm uh in independent researcher and working in the idea of a mechanical proportion system and the idea is based in two bodies moving in the same direction and in the same at the same time they are moving opposing no in opposing Direction ah wonderful Leonardo thank you so much uh let me see sorry Zoom is Shifting things around on me so I'm not I I let me go to Kurt jonat next Kurt welcome uh there you are hey Tim he so I am joining you guys from my name is Kurt yanok joining you from Silicon Valley today uh I've been listening in a lot of times and I'm like uh Rob I I just support you guys I like what you're doing I do experimentation myself in the field of AI which is very is very different from what you guys are doing but I love listening in and uh Tim has uh great guests like I know like Ron Wood I mean I've been familiar with him and then some of the other people he's had on so I just listen in I just support you guys okay wonderful well Kurt thank you so you did I mean you've been in this area forever right you in fact you had the xprize team way back when yeah yeah I I I've known you since since you were doing um you had Antigravity or something and you were doing these great experiments and they're just you know it's just yeah yeah well no we'll hear it for the oldtimers we're oldtimers now so that's right we're all let let me go to how CC pal are you there yeah hi uh hey can I ask you to turn your camera on Sir thing doesn't work uh okay it's just an old computer and uh I'm to cheap to replace it uh so I'm uh in the Midwest and uh I'm here to get some more insight and to see what's going on in the current propulsion field uh I will have some questions later on so uh thanks for uh having me here oh absolutely let me go to Richard bandor neck Richard welcome welcome back oh thanks I I missed a couple of these no I'm just a researcher I'm doing research in extended electrodynamics we got a number of Grants I'm on a bunch of committees for the government to just study this uh science so yeah I'm just here to be flying the wall and just to see what everybody else is doing that's wonderful that's wonderful well thank you so much for coming back uh let me see let me go to Darren next Darren and could I ask you to turn your camera on sir ah there we go I see over in the corner o You're muted still sir yeah I'm just an old retired guy and I like interesting things and I find a lot of interesting things on your show so thanks a lot Tim oh absolutely Darren well welcome welcome uh let me see let me go to Gary D next Gary let me ask you to unmute can you hear think yeah I think Gary's having some camera issues today also he he emailed me before the call yep can you hear me yep I can hear you Gary can you introduce yourself uh I'm Gary and I'm just here to uh listen to you guys you guys are the experts not me I uh find this fascinating and I'm here to learn it's all I can say right now well Gary thank you thank you and welcome uh let me go to Lulu next a person who needs no introduction Lulu has been in our conference Lulu welcome ma'am you have been with us for ever and ever and ever I have I have I love APAC and it's like I make time for it you know you know there's nothing could stop me I don't care what I'm doing I step aside I turn on my camera it's apack time everybody be quiet I need to listen um uh my name is noal I live in Texas uh my background is a medical business management I'm a LIC agent in the state of Texas I'm interested in astrophysics and u space and future Tech awesome thank you so much let me go to Randa next Randa welcome ma'am hey hi hi you guys nice to see everybody and uh I'm I'm Randa milon I'm the CEO and co-founder of interorbital systems we're here at the Mojave a and Spaceport where we've had a program going on for the last 27 years uh with bipropellant liquid Rockets but we're very interested in doing Atomic rockets and uh interested in partnering with anybody who might uh might like to do that we're getting a launch license currently for a bipropellant liquid orbital vehicle hopefully to launch within the next 12 to 15 months so living it up out here that's exciting that's exci so in terms of atomic Rockets the the first name that comes to mind is Jared Yates so so he would be someone to correspond with cuz he is digging into that right now um so and and they're actually if you want to email me Randa I think you have my info right yeah just shoot me I can I can connect you with some folks let me go to Isaiah let me go to Isaiah Richie next Isaiah welcome sir and I'm hoping just so you guys know I'm hoping to go visit Isaiah in October he is doing some amazing things with his secg and then he's going to be building another ring for it as well the next year or two so excellent I'm looking forward to that hello everybody my name is Isaiah Richie I live here in Newberg and uh I'm not a scientist but been studying theg for 15 years and working on a uh fairly as accurate as can be a replica of it and hopefully next year be endeavoring to run do the second ring and I've already gotten some pretty amazing results uh in including like one of the rollers levitating across the surface as it spins the sound reducing uh and a small amount of voltage coming out of it so yeah happy to be here awesome Isaiah thank you let me go to Steve Carmen next and I think Steve might be having some because it keeps saying admit admit admit so Steve if you if you can talk please do but I'm not sure okay yeah I think his is kind of stuck so we'll we'll skip him uh and we'll just see maybe he can make it in later let me go to Gabriel next and can I ask you to turn your camera on Sir hi hey welcome yeah I am from Brazil um I am an independent researcher I am very interested in the extended electrodynamics and its implications to technology uh in the fields for example alternative propus uh healing matchings um all these things so it's me awesome thank you so much and last but not least let me go to Mr Ron Evans Ron welcome Ron is an old-timer also in a good way in a very good way Ron can are you with just there we go okay looks like Ron might be having some microphone issues okay well I think I think that's it for now everybody welcome I I love running through these introductions this I'm going to blame this firmly on Mark but this is yeah and he set the timer up too so that that is awesome I I love doing the introductions because we have a community that we're building and one of the things that I've seen is over the last couple of years that we've done this conference it is maturing it is going from being just you know it was almost like a house party and now it's like becoming a Professional Organization you know it's it's a professional community and so one of the things that we're trying to do is is you know just help increase that and kind of go with that oh there's Ron Ron welcome sir hello how' you do sorry my I always have problems with computers so I'm Ron Evans I'm xbae in the UK it's half midnight here so I'm ready for bed yeah well thank you for join well I wouldn't miss it um my interest is really is I gave a presentation back in 12th of March was it 12th of March 2022 I've been having another look at it um and I'm still interested and I wonder whether any of your colleagues would be willing to have a look at it too and help me yeah well I I would love to have you present again and if you want to send it Ron do you want to just just shoot me an email and I can forward it out and and ask folks Okay we okay yeah absolutely absolutely thank you for inviting me yeah and we had one more person let me let me me get uh bza Steins bazza welcome thank you good to good to be here very interested in what you're doing and thank you as well sir okay well let me see so yeah again that's that's it for introductions I am super excited so things are kind of casual and informal um and again it's let me see alt y on Windows or option y on Mac if you want to raise your hand I'm not sure if anybody has any presentations um we did have Curtis horn at some point when Curtis arrives I was hoping that he might be able to give us an update on what they're doing and then um if you guys want I could I could uh twist Mr Yates arm to give us an update on the winterberg files and again he had me moving boxes in the heat so Jared are you there well let me see I so I'll so what you know what why don't I do this guys why don't I show you really quick I can I'll just walk you through kind of the albums that I got really quick okay and so this is this is my flicker Gallery I will copy this and put it in chat um you know we got this while we were in Reno as well this is Matt Miller who has a new type of air conditioning system it's not propulsion but this is kind of my bulk photo gallery um so we were at the house of Dr fredward winterberg this is I I had never heard of him before Jared found him but he is one of the heavyweights of fusion research he was good friends and colleagues with Edward Teller he won the Herman oberth award he was best friends with Herman oberth who did tons of work on UFOs um this is a photo that he took of Paul dur so I mean this guy was he was heavy duty these are NASA scientists and and as you can see there's Jared scanning and scanning and scanning um we had Jared scanned over like 2,000 documents he is still going through those so I I did help him set those up I I I'm teasing Jared did actually Lion's Share of the work and what I tried to do while we were there was also just get some photos of kind of some of the various things that we saw so if you guys haven't seen this photo Gallery um you know it's it's just I tried to capture some of the stuff that was there here's a letter between uh winterberg and wner Von braa um then yeah couple of oh uh there there is so that photo that Jared's pointing at there is uh that is winterberg his spouse I believe or ex spouse and then you can't see it that's Edward Teller in the foreground so this this fellow was amazing um the other thing was so these file folders here that you see in this photo he had over a hundred of these and each one of these was absolutely filled with correspondence um his his daughter was there she let us go through everything and we tried to be very careful and focused on important things um he had you know photos of himself that is a bust he originally came from I believe a a very wealthy potentially Royal German family and so so he had a lot of that um that is his daughter astred she is absolutely wonderful and she helped us with things the other thing some of this just caught my eye this is like the days before the internet um so these are postcards that people started sending him winterberg came to the US from Germany I believe in 1957 he was at the very end of Operation Paperclip he was a paperclip scientist and he specialized in Nuclear Physics with a focus on fusion and so when they brought him over he started doing Publications in the 50s and 60s and scientists would send him postcards asking for more of his files right and so there I mean you can see this pile here this isn't everything there were actually probably almost twice as many as these I found another box of them from all over the world including and I I got these separately uh he was getting Postcards From the middle of the Soviet Union about about Fusion research like at the height of the Cold War and I was just like that is amazing so he had uh so much materials these so these are the boxes that we scanned and there were actually more boxes than this but these are the ones that we scanned um and yeah I mean there there were about 35 in total and and this is a this is towards the end of the week you can see Jared's just about knocked out there the photo with Edward Teller and uh then just some closeups I wasn't able to get everything I just tried to kind of get little bits and pieces here and there um the majority of winterberg career was spent at the desert Research Institute and so we dropped by dri and got some photos he also taught at the University of Nevada Las Vegas I believe or University of Nevada know and so we weren't able to drop by there but we did get some photos from drri and drri is part of the University system down there and it has some amazing views too so so that's that and then I'm also going to take you over to the alt propulsion Channel and again we we got um so this this video here if you haven't seen it yet Jared basically ran through everything that we had found at the time and and so this has kind of the best overview um this one here is it's a little bit less concise but it has different info so I put it up we put this up while we were that's actually in his office when we were scanning and then uh again Matt Miller with the unique uh the nativus power AC technology so excuse me that's that's what I have that's been the last couple of weeks and Tim I can go a little more into the winterberg stuff if you want yeah yeah let me let me Spotlight you if you can again everybody please you yeah pay attention to Jared he has been digging and digging and digging he's already finding amazing nuggets of information yep so uh freart winberg uh Tim already went over some of this but I'm just gonna cover it again so fart winterberg uh he was 15 at the end of World War II uh his doctoral adviser was uh Heisenberg Heisenberg was also the doctoral adviser of Ed and a couple other famous scientists so that made him kind of a somebody in the mid-50s uh very shortly there after him getting his Doctorate uh he came up with an idea on how to test relativity which is what led to GPS so that was one of the things he made sure everybody always knew him for was that he helped invent GPS um he in 1959 he from 55 to 59 he'd been working in Germany's uh Fusion area uh which deals with a lot lot of nuclear stuff and that caught the attention of the US and the US said well we want to make sure we NAB this guy before the Russians do so they brought him over in Project Paperclip um and Project Paperclip ended pretty soon after that but anyways so for four years from 1959 to 1963 uh winterberg was working over at this place called the case Institute um I think he was doing some atmospheric stuff over there um he did a lot of other stuff too he was a he was a polymath in his area of fusion and nuclear weapons and all sorts of other stuff so he worked there for four years eventually decided that he wanted to move to the desert and high elevation and not have to worry about all the allergies associated with living in Ohio so uh 1963 he moves over to Nevada and he spent like the rest of his life there from 1963 until uh he passed away in October of 2022 um he came up with he wrote 250 plus Publications he cited 2500 or 3,000 times the the dude was a heavy hitter in the scientific world um he some of his papers though are really interesting and are what led me to him in the first place because I've been going down this Rabbit Hole trying to figure out is the is the government tr3b thing is that real if it is is there any uh Smoking Gun documents that I can find that help support that this indeed was a real thing and if so when was it made and by who and and all that jazz so he had some ideas starting with something called project data lists which was this idea that you could have a deflector dish on the back of your spaceship and a string of beads of nuclear bombs ahead of you in space and as you go past one of these it explodes then it accelerates you and then the next one it accelerates you and so you can get up to like 04 C uh with this string of beads thing however and that idea is what got him um uh the Herman oberth award Herman oberth being another one of those Nazi rocketry space travel type guys so that project data list thing really put him on the map for a lot of people um in 1973 slide aside in 1973 Dr winterberg ended up joining kufos the center for UFO studies which is the organization that was started by uh heck J Allen hinck um so Blue Book ended in 69 heik knew that about 5% of those cases were super like amazing so in 19673 heinik started his invisible College that's where you had a valet and um so other like high Heavy Hitters in in that era of euphology well Dr wiberg was one of those board members of that very elite organization um and I actually I just corresponded with Jack filet a couple days ago I was like hey I just saw your name come up with winterberg and he's like oh yeah yeah um anyways um so this this alternative propulsion thing is something that winterberg has been with his whole life since like age 10 he was all about alternative propulsion and how to get it done he thought Fusion was the answer the cool thing about project data list though is that the that was the version 1.0 was these nukes behind eventually he figured out you can use much smaller explosions much more rapidly and on the center underside of a craft and that that's how you can end up getting uh really good accelerations that way um and when you look at the undersides of some UFOs and the undersides of the flying triangles you see what looks like to be some kind of fusion reactor some kind of pulsing plasma thing something there um so that that is kind of what led me towards thinking well maybe this guy's ideas um contributed to the development of this flying triangle craft uh I've yet to find the Smoking Gun I have found a couple of warm barrels but I haven't found the Smoking Gun uh he kept his UFO stuff and his work stuff very separate like he had one box of UFO stuff and he had his UFO notebook that he wrote all his notes and everything that was completely separate he had all these bookshelves in his office and like he had one bookshelf that was all his UFO books and then everything else was all his work stuff so even though those two things have tons of overlap even though I have letters uh and and correspondents where he's talking to Ed teller about UFOs um and how the UFOs operate uh I I I still don't quite have that Smoking Gun the best thing I got to go on right now is in his UFO notebook he's got some notes about a a phone call he had with tell and Teller was saying uh these micr Fusion explosions seem to be how the craft are operating um so there's there's some there there but you know I'm still going through the stuff so hopefully I should have uh all of his documents that we've scanned and collected I should have those completed and ready for like sharing to the world here uh within the next couple days um right now I'm just getting everything all uh searchable text right because it's a scan so you got to go through and convert all that scan into searchable text um so yeah uh look forward in the next couple of days I'll make sure I share the link on like the Apec WhatsApp chat and you know other PL maybe a YouTube channel I don't know I'll share it all over the place you you'll get a hold of it awesome Jared thank you so much thank you so much yeah um I mean again tremendous amount of information we we got so much and Jared has been going through that night and day I mean it's basically it's just like drinking from the fire hose he had so much um some of the things that I saw were in those boxes one of the challenges that we ran into was uh like as as so as an example um winterberg would take like an article from a magazine or he would photocopy some pages from a textbook or a chapter from a textbook sometimes and then he would take notes sometimes on it sometimes he would attach it with staples and and then you know one of the the challenges was like what should we scan what should we save right and you know keeping in mind we had about a week to go through those it was again so much information and his notebooks were the same way uh you with correspondence right I mean there was there were so many letters from so many different scientists that he interacted with it was like what should we focus on there um so it it was really interesting and then for me this raises this larger question of the Legacy that that these scientists are leaving behind as well as members of our own Community right right I mean unfortunately a lot of the older people that I think we grew up with some hero worship for um they're leaving us and and that raises some big challenging difficult questions right because like in the case of winterberg he had a ton of unpublished papers things that he he either never planed to publish or he never quite got it there and it's like I think all of us to some degree have that how do we save that how do we preserve that Brilliance now I don't I don't really have good answers but um one thing I did hear about was Dr Kevin new said that there is a professor at Rice University who is at least trying to start an archive and I will uh I'll put his I'll put his info in chat for you guys uh so I think Eric has his hand raised or he did uh let me see I I I I just wanted to wonder if he meant Fusion or fishing fusion fusion uh Believe It or Not Fusion well so yeah they they were Fusion research started with Pho Farnsworth right so way back in the day in the 50s Pho Farnsworth the inventor of the TV was doing Fusion stuff and and then you had these projects like nerva and things like that where they started out as atomic fion Rockets right which is what Randa was asking about earlier and they pretty rapidly started to explore ideas for Fusion propulsion and uh and then and again Jared could speak more to this but there there's a lot of fusion test areas at a place called Area 11 which is basically it it's kind of across the Nevada Test Site from Area 51 and so one of the interesting things and again this this goes to these unanswered questions was um winterberg used to drive down there and he told his daughter he was going to Area 51 and we weren't sure if that was you know like maybe she got confused or something like that so we followed up with her and she said no dad used to drive down there right he wasn't flying to Los Alamos although he did that as well and when he went he'd say you know hey ason I'm going down to Area 51 you know wouldn't you love to go with me and so he did say that to her although it it looks like it's it's more likely that he was going going to Area 11 and it could be that the majority of what he was doing was just investigating possible contamination I guess that was a task that he took so yeah it's you know there's all there's a there's a kernel of Truth in every myth right so are 51 sounds better but but it it looks like more likely than not it was pretty boring stuff at least most of the time yeah just to add on to what Tim is saying uh that entire Nevada Test Site Area we got some cool pictures of um different underground uh Fusion stuff that they were testing all over the place so look for that you know when I shared as well there's a couple of really interesting terawatt Test Facilities they had going on um one other thing so uh Dr winterberg back in the 70s came up with because he was a polym he was all over the place with a bunch of great ideas one of the great ideas he had was this thing which is called the plank ether um that's his version of a grand unified theory um uh as far as I can tell there might be some there there but there might also be some issues there but considering he was so well connected considering he started the idea in like the 70s and didn't publish this book until 2002 when he'd already conferred with Robert Ford and Eric Davis and how put off and and all these other guys were like Iron Out The Kinks of his idea um it's it's probably worth taking a look at that uh I should have a digital copy with uh out equations um in that repository for people to view the reason why there's no equations is because compression errors on that digital version um you can't really find these books online uh it looks like all of the remaining copies are in the shed that had all those boxes there was like 300 copies there that he had so astd was kind enough to send me off with a about 15 copies of these I've already mailed off a couple but um so if you're interested in a copy of this book you can reach out to me um I'm right now though I'm I'm only sending it to people who are like you know top tier physicist level people who are already able to understand Grand unified theories right um because I I think that there's enough of a there there in this book that it deserves at least a a looking over by qualified individuals awesome Jared thank you thank you um so guys let me see who let me see it's option y on Mac or alt y on Windows who has something they'd like to share again it's open discussion and hoc presentations uh does anybody have updates on the research or anything along those lines there's Drew Drew go for it sir hello hey um Let me let me let me Spotlight you drew hi uh I don't we're getting we're getting too close to our um corporate demonstration to kind of delve into the the updates from from my um project but um I want to throw out an impossible um today's testing even for me it was it was crazy so I want to just toss out some really raw data and some really raw um information and see if anybody can make any heads or tails out of it and anybody that wants to collaborate um I'll be I'll be looking to take on somebody to talk about this because it's it's for for me it's a rabbit hole and I can't go down it right now because we're too busy trying to you know get funded but um let me just throw it out there and then yall see if there's any if there's any reality in this madness so um uh let me see how I'm going to do this I am going to and and Drew if it's okay do you think I could drop your email into chat uh sure yeah okay let me do that if I get spammed I'm just going to delete it though well and again I'm not going to put this I I never put emails on the open web and I would urge everyone else not to as well it's there there are literally software programs that will go out there and scrape those out of chat forms websites all that but in the zoom chat this is not public and it doesn't get published so I'm not at all sure what's going on can y'all see anything can you'all see it looks like you shared the entire screen and not maybe maximize the image yeah that's the idea okay um we're going to start here because I don't know how to even present this data it's so crazy but um I was um I'm running a a test of a of a a multi-stack plate set and it's a new configuration but it's based on a configuration that should have worked fine and it didn't so I decided to flip the polarity and run it in reverse just because you know I could and it worked fine I started at zero um zero thrust and applied voltage that's what this red line is down to around 7500 volts so I'm applying voltage and then cutting the voltage off and then applying voltage and then cutting it off just to see if if thrust would go up or down or sideways or whatever it would do and from the outside the test looked very normal I would apply voltage I would get a corresponding thrust um the fact that it's drifting down there's no drift in the system the the system was actually running very well so it's actually making more and more thrust as time goes by that's because we're actually driving um charge into the polymers so it's getting closer and the local electrostatic I fields are growing but um that's not what's important what's important is that this thing made thrust I put on power it made thrust and I was pumping in somewhere in the zone of around um 1.8 Millow that's about how much power is coming out of my high voltage power supply passing through um basically a 100 megaohm resistor so I don't short anything out but the system eats about 1.82 mow just to run um not all of that's being used to produce thrust probably 99% of it's being used to produce heat on the 100 megaohm resistor I just want to let you see that that the test as a whole went exactly the way all the other thousands of times I've done this test so I'm just going to um put this down here and I'm going to run a short video um I don't know if you can hear the words I assume you can't but take a look at the the sign on this power supply that's in microamps that's negative microamps it never when I was running this test over and over and over again I was actually generating power and and even for me this isn't possible this is this is pure Madness this system is actually creating power enough to be recorded on the uh the um the current meter of the of the power supply so I'm going true but if you flip the polarity wouldn't it see the current going in the opposite direction no no when you're charging up a these plates they they charge up and they draw they draw positive power when you when you disch when you turn off the power all the energy that was stored up in the capacitors these things are just capacitors all the energy that was stored up comes out as negative so it goes in as positive and it comes out as negative which makes sense because you're pumping power in and some of it comes back out um now I've got a sort of stop this before we get to some other parts but um uh I'm gonna go over this again so and again I've got I got a better little piece of this presentation take a look at this current this is for real this is somewhere in the zone of 1.82 milliamps or Mill sorry mwatts this is in mows this stupid thing was making mows of power and it was doing it for hours on end which is really disconcerting because even I don't understand what's going on okay that that number should not be ever negative okay this is the first time in four years of running these tests I've ever seen that power supply have a negative output or input at this point during an actual making thrust test and this thing was making I don't know 330 to 500 Micron Newtons of thrust and power at the same time so um I'm gonna close this and I'm gonna Drew is this the first time you ran a multi-layer test oh no no I've run many multi-layer tests this isun one isaed as it is though I I also noticed on your first chart there was an inversion in the second uh second pulse um instead of weight weight change it went up um you see there the the second pulse on the left over here yeah over there that's that's me cutting the voltage so here's the voltage going on and then I had some kind of problem I don't know had runaway current because this thing was real Sparky um so I cut the current and let the thing recover to see what it was going to do and then put the current back on or put the power back on this is volage yeah but when you put the power back on the second time um it looks like the weight remained up so you're saying there was a spark over something like that oh yeah yeah this this was super super spark yeah so I I you know I'm just showing that in general when the power's on the thing's making thrust and when the power's off the the system discharges and it goes back to not making thrust but all all the data on the left there is bad because it was you're dealing with Sparks yeah anytime any time you got a spark in the system it it throws it throws garbage all over the place um the we'll just go through this a little bit at a time this was a highlight this is one of the high points it's making 0. 28 microamps at 600 or 6,500 volts which worked out to be 1.82 mowatt but the thing is making 1.82 M it's not eating 1.28 Ms so for hours on in this thing went from making power to zero and then as soon as I turned off the power it would plunge down and dump all the energy that was in the system well I one I don't know where it get was getting the energy from because it was outputting power the whole time it should have been eating power the whole time and when I ran it in reverse or actually this is the reverse when I ran it for forward this stupid thing actually did consume power it was around .12 microamps as it's supposed to be it's always supposed to be eating power but there's something curious about this configuration which is in this blurred out area here that this is the first time I even and this is weird for me okay guys and when it's weird for me it's very weird because I've seen some insane stuff coming out of this out of this research but even this one's got me I have no idea what's going on because even I know this thing shouldn't be generating power while it's making thrust so I can point you to where to look about that if you want okay look uh Drew if if you I there is a research by um um Garett Modell uh and from uh or just University which one Colorado okay and he built a a a device with some with some gaps and stuff like that and he's able to like a chip and he's able to to draw energy from from the vacuum that's the way your system is full of capacitors in then you may have I don't exactly know but it's it's it's a very wild guess you may have an issue or not issue quote unquote you may have a similar situation what Garett has when you have two gaps and and basically you have some tunneling and there's a difference in energy then you may be getting energy from from the vacuum but just a wild guess okay okay yeah I I'm I'm kind of thinking that's what's going on I know we interact with the vacuum that's how we that because we're stealing momentum that's what that's where we're getting our momentum from We're stealing it from whatever the virtual particles or the real particles or whatever whatever the hell's going on down there on a plank scale that's where we're getting our energy that's where we're getting our momentum from but I'm used to seeing lots of momentum stolen in in the in the directions that I know it's supposed to happen this first time I've ever seen energy come out of this out of this experiment um I and I was sort of seeing this nonsense a couple of days ago but it was real close to zero and it was like it was like 0.004 positive and it would drift down to 0 four negative I'm like oh man I must have a calibration problem with my with my uh um with my current detector it turned out it wasn't I checked the current detector current the current system is working and it's this ain't working this is this is stealing energy from God and that makes me worried no I don't know his paper you'll see similarities in in in in terms of gaps and stuff like that that's what I think did you drop it in the chat or something uh I don't know I can say send you an email it's Garrett model he's he's working with Hal POF and stuff like that uh I I'll try I'll try to find it okay hold on thank you very much um somebody mentioned it might be a radio broadcast um I doubt it because it's an all metal vacuum chamber and the entire plate set is inside of an I uh shielded box which means it's inside of a gaussian shield so there's no radio waves getting inside that box um and it would be it I would see if it were truly a radio station and I was absorbing energy as as an antenna does then it would be working while it's off when the power is off and it's not making any thrust at all I'd still see the current i' still see because it would be it'd be reading the current from the antenna um but it's not doing that when this thing is off it discharges pretty quick I'd say about 60 seconds and there's no thrust there's no current the current goes to virtually zero 10 to the minus five or six um so that don't I don't I don't think it's the antenna thing but that's a thanks for the uh suggestion I wish I wish I knew what you were doing do you have a schematic of of what's going on here there are many experiments that I see and I just don't see what's what's going on at all yeah well that's the problem is I can't get let you in side unless you decide to become a collaborator and that requires an NDA and joining our team so sorry it it's just meaningless then to look at these graphs and curves I have just no idea what you're doing um okay it's meaningless to you then all right but there's a couple of guys on this team that have seen the insides of this and it's not so meaningless to them well i' I'd like to make meaning out of it well so Eric I did I did put his uh I did put Drew's email in there in chat and in fact Let me let drop that in one and we'll see what we can do um so and and let me see I have a couple I have a couple more questions I think for Drew and Harry sprain has been dropping schematics and videos into chat so I want to go to Harry in a moment uh but let me go to Michael Peron first sir hey Tim yeah uh good stuff Drew um my well I think yeah Garrett model work it's a possibility if there was a spark initially during the test it could have created a conductive pathway partially through the thing that would have you could have created some sort of diode um and then if you have that sort of situation with an asymmetric capacitor you have asymmetric uh vacuum uh States so it's possible you could get power out of that in certain in in some geometries um I would really like to explore that so can can we get together that's that's you know that's how that's Garrett Mel's uh brainchild so uh I I do recommend talking to Garrett Modell for that and I I have Insight here or there about it but definitely uh I do also recommend speaking to Garrett about that but if you're um I I recall you mentioned you were you were thinking of using um uh iron phosphate uh for uh embedding charges and if you are using something like iron phosphate couldn't it just be a battery couldn't it be just storing charge over time I thought about that this particular design has no storage it there's no there's no storage potential in this particular chemistry patch this this this particular one um I thought about that too but um it did it did do a little sparking early on but by the time I was getting to these kind of readings it had been running Spark for hours well you mentioned also that you had put it backwards and it was somehow working so it working differently it they it was producing thrust both directions it was producing um way more this direction than the other direction so just by flipping the polarity on the plates I was getting a different thrust Direction and that was different than the usual amount right um yeah it's less than the usual amount but that could be because of the configuration there was a brand new configuration and I haven't worked the bugs out of it yet maybe um one thing I was thinking is if it produced thrust the opposite way that you expected it to maybe it already had charge embedded in it no it produced thrust the the correct direction that I was expecting is so it it did its thrust right it even did the quantities kind of right because I knew this wasn't going to work that well the only thing that's out of the norm on this one is in one configuration it burns energy just the way it was supposed to and when I flipped the polarity on the whole system it created energy at some ridiculous amount it just it was ridiculous the amount of energy it was creating for for for the for what it should have been burning So Not only was it burn not burning it it was generating it which yeah so um one thing that I saw is uh in these sorts of systems um and this is something for Garrett Modell's team to look at as well um but in these sorts of systems uh when you apply your electric Fields uh the amount of power output can increase drastically uh I mean you you guys see the amounts of thrust go to the square of the electric field I think right so I mean it in principle if you you're getting power instead of Thrust out of the vacuum well first off I mean if you're getting thrust out of the vacuum or power out of the vacuum you're probably in some sense breaking CPT symmetry or at least some symmetry and if you're breaking that symmetry then um if you're breaking the Symmetry to get energy then you can probably also break it to get thrust uh those two things there there should be a proof about those but I haven't given enough thought but um yeah when you when you uh if you have a system that is actually this is uh Drew this is something you can test does the power output of this setup scale with the square of your electric field just like the thrust does that's something you can test because then then you'll then that's sounding like a vacuum effect yeah and energy and momentum get combined into a four Vector in relativity so they're they're kind of related in that sense once you're in special relativity thanks thanks David that's good in addition to the other but yeah I mean I think the test to be done here is um what's the what's how does the output power scale with the applied voltage is it yeah it to the square or to or exponential or what I can I can look I can look into that thank you that's a that's an interesting thought good luck and I would be very curious to know the result yeah so would I so um I'll I'll get back with this one anybody that that's interested just email me and and we'll see if we can collaborate on something because again this is a rabbit hole I don't have time for and I probably am not going to circle back to this until I get some other stuff taken care of but there's a whole bunch of really coolness here um and I just I just wish I knew more about this nonsense all I got Tim it's a lot of fun oh sorry I was muted oh anybody else got any other question oh yeah there's a bunch of hands up um let me go to let me go to hfk who's been patiently waiting uh Drew before you do any tinkering with the device that has the anomalous results make damn sure that you've got all your construction notes straight and duplicate it first and work on the duplicate to see if you can repeat what you've just done because you might have a oneoff but if you can reproduce it get the same test result results the same anomalies then you know you're on to something yeah that's um that's and that's very sound advice thank you um unfortunately this is a anomaly that popped up during a a high pressure design effort I'm under so um this is actually going to get its little butt tour apart tomorrow and the next Generation ain't going to look nothing like it so that's why I know how to build this I know exactly what I did to get to this point I've got I do have a full set of design build notes videos and as you're tearing it down multiple cameras in case something changed some you know when you you said there was an arc over so something may have changed yeah okay so video the damn thing take lots of photographs because you may have some clues in the tear down that won't be obvious yeah I do forensics on on on every build but um since I don't know what I'm looking for and I don't have time to mess with it um you know if if you're interested just contact me we we we'll get together and maybe you can propose something to do with the data because I'm going to take some pictures and some video like your said um but there's not going to be a lot to see because these things are just you know they're just Metalized polymers so you can't really see anything I mean I I do a quick uh capacitance I do um I don't know some of the other nonsense Charlie asked me to do we do voltage drops and discharge versus voltage there's all kinds of nonsense that he asked for um it none of it makes any sense to me and I don't really care I'm just looking to make thrust out of this thing so anyhow yeah that's that's what I got so next thank you yeah let me so let me go to Trevor next and Curtis actually I after this I want to go to Curtis and the reason is Curtis is on a schedule he has a family with a birthday today so he's stealing time from that to to spend with us Trevor go for it sir yeah I so I don't understand your setup and I don't need to know um but so forgive me if the question is naive uh but um where where is this power going um are you like pumping electricity back into your lab like if you see your power meter is it running you know backwards a little bit or something where where is this power going good point basically um these are uh commercial Spellman High Voltage power supplies and the high voltage power supply has a 1 gig ohm resistor that goes from the output of the high voltage power supply back to ground and it measures some you know some some Sparky thing it measures across that it's in 16 bits and it reports the voltage that it that it reports the current that it sees um so it's a very accurate current meter attached to the output of the high voltage Supply so if the high voltage power supply is putting current into the system then it sees the current flowing in if it if the system is backing current into the high voltage power supply then it sees it the other direction at least I'm not a Sparky man I really don't understand electricity I assume the voltage stays the same and the current just changes Direction I really don't know but every other time I've run this thing and I mean I've run this thing thousands of times I see the current always in positive it's always a positive current that getting burned and when I I go and I shut off the system the the energy that's stored in the capacitors comes back out of the capacitors as negative current so I see you know I've seen lots of negative current but it's always after I turn I hit the button and turn the thing off and the current always goes into like negative 0.1 point2 35 and it dumps it yeah you get that for 15 20 30 seconds and then goes right back to zero and no more thrusts no more nothing everything's you know everything's cop pathetic this first time I've ever seen negative current during uh 6500 volt um output so but so you but you're saying essentially it's just going to ground and you're just reading it as it goes to ground it's going to ground and I'm reading it yeah um I think it would be interesting to have it not go to ground to see if you could if you could you know charge a battery with it yeah or something I mean that would be interesting because it could be a a but right now it's just an anomaly in the in the in the output so I don't know what to do with it yeah I would just want to kind of see it you know to know that it wasn't like a instrument failure awesome we TR I don't believe I don't believe it was a an instr I don't know how to turn this thing off yeah oh I you know Drew I so I stopped sharing and actually if it's okay let me let me go to Curtis for an update um I I asked Curtis because Cur Curtis had an update he was going to do at the last APAC and um we didn't have time so Curtis uh could you do an update for us sure thing let me thank you sir share I'll share uh my screen and yeah and again for you know for for everybody I I visited uh Jim and Curtis about um probably three weeks ago a month ago now and the work that they're doing is absolutely amazing and I think the thing that impressed me most is how much upward potential there is as well I didn't realize you know they they are pursuing things one step at a time very rigorously but Curtis ran me through a bunch of the things that could be done to improve thrust over time and it just blew me away you're talking hundreds potentially thousands of times more thrust so that's amazing yeah well it is a physics lab Tim so uh so thank you uh I appreciate the compliment um so first thing let's see can I ah there we go so this is a picture of the new device and uh Jim calls it uh um he calls it bigars and I uh basically the you can the difference if you look at dig up an old picture of um previous devices or pictures of the other devices we have the bearings we have are are simple sleeve bearings this is one with that's a self-c centering bearing and um and I'll talk about it more later but this is one of the improvements that we're that we're doing so here it's pictured just with a aluminum slug um in the middle it doesn't have a stack this was this is when uh it was being constructed and um you know just just fit the fit for fitment so but that's that's what it looks like and it's set up so that you could have you know bearings on six ears although U initially we ran with four so this is the the kind of a the big signal we got and I'll show in the next slide um a kind of rough guesstimate of the force that we're generating and what you're looking at here and I'll show and after that after I show that slide I'll show a video of this run but what you're looking at here is the blue Trace is the calculated average momentum of the uh device and the the structure holding it which is the the torsion pendulum um the device itself is uh noted in green and of course this this graph is a Michelle uh brand this on tracker this is a a great software great contribution by Michelle we really appreciate appreciate all her efforts um she's she's going through some health things so you know she was she had a whole thing prepared she was going to present to Tim and so we're still waiting on that to happen I want to you know make a note of that and acknowledge her work um so so yeah so the green is is the device itself the blue is the kind of the average momentum um and the red is the the um um the tor AR so it's it's it's a lot more massive than device device is about 150 160 so milligrams and the device is more like 800 milligrams it's almost like in total it's about a gram I mean about a kilogram of mass so anyway so what you'll notice is that when the Green motion happens that that green graph like moves quite a bit and the blue doesn't move that much those are kind of we're expecting that those are stick slip type events where you're not really you know you're you're exchanging momentum maybe the thing's vibrating and walking or doing some some crazy motion as it vibrates now what you're looking at in this graph from 0 to 40 seconds is there was a sweep you can see at the top it was started at 45 Kilz and it ended at 40 khz now again this was a run done August 1st so it's been a while um and usually during that time with our other bearings you get a lot more noise and you'll notice here that the graph I think it Almost Doesn't move until it get closer to the resonance point and then after that it kind of stabilizes again so really this this um this setup is you know we're we're using bearings that are like engineered and we're we're kind of taking small steps we're taking steps toward getting something where you know hopefully the all all the noise is is greatly reduced I mean you can't ever get rid of all of it but we're we're we're trying now if it was just basically if it was just um you know stick slip and that kind of motions we would expect you know the blue curve might might wiggle a bit because of the energy being put in but the fact that it you know between 21 20 and 22 seconds that it it it goes up significantly and you can see after after around 22 seconds you know somewhere in there basically that that minimum right before 22 seconds a little bit after 21 seconds the the the red Trace which is the the torsion arm and the and the green Trace are both moving the start you know the red Trace stops its uh Mo motion from opposite direction of the green and then starts going in the same direction and and that continues on for for for a bit there so and and again as this is happening happening we're sweeping through these frequencies okay so Z is 45 and 40 seconds is 25 so at 20 seconds that was around 35 Kilz so this is this is less a little bit less than that so as this is sweeping through the resonance you see this this this the mass like move quite a bit this is one of the biggest signals we've ever had and so I was excited two weeks ago to try to get this I was coming back from the lab and um ape unfortunately ended I I had to I I was taking a delivering a device to Jim and so um I wasn't able to get back in time but uh uh so so let me go to the next slide and this is the basically you can see uh this is a a a graph that actually Michelle did and you know we we are uh she had other numbers in there and I want to leave that for her um and also we're validating those numbers but you know just from a simple uh physics you know dpdt for Force you can just put a line through this and you can see um given on the left the momentum numbers and these are of course like I said they're from tracker and they're uh basically I think uh Michelle was running it through um chat GPT with uh woler and Alpha in the background you know helping with the the math right uh getting that so we're validating all that that's not 100% validated but but we're working on it I'm looking at how even how tracker calculates the velocity so it looks like tracker is using uh the central limit there for you know taking the the first derivative so the velocity so that looks to be a legitimate way um and so so that you know these these momentum numbers are just taking that times the mass right the mass is the number you put in so anyway so we're getting right here for 1 second an average force of 700 millin um now you as we're going through this of course this is being sweeped we're sweeping through a frequency and you can see that that red is the smooth total momentum so you can see there's times where we sweep through and it looks like that you know the the if you take that little if you get a smaller time it looks like you can get a higher uh higher slope right the slope is going to be basically the force okay so it's possible that um you know somewhere in there there could be in in a smaller um frequency regime that and if if we're able to Target that we might be able to repeatedly get that that's you know yet to be seen but this is a very promising and exciting data that we've been uh wanting to share with you guys um so let me stop I want to stop here and show the video of the run and I think at that point I can show other things but I think at that point I should probably take questions um so let me oh actually I should continue to share and just go to the video so let me share the desktop and then switch out of and here is believe that was run knew that was run five okay Mo that okay and Curtis it's just showing us your desktop yet oh okay hold on a second I am okay how how about now can you guys see yeah it looks like it's just showing the desktop okay let me change what it's [Music] sharing see stop share share share that there we go why is is it pausing slide it to the right it's off screen it looks like no it does it just doesn't like me going full screen mode so here we go I'll just play it there we go and you see that push right there so this is the video and you can see it's nice and stable and that was the end of the the 40 seconds right there that little blip what we do is we do a reverse sweep really quick so it's uh it kind of marks marks the end of The Sweep so it's meant for data Pro so I'll do it one more time in case you guys didn't catch it okay and there there it's kind of just stabilizing let me stop this sharing and uh yeah so I think if it's okay with you I think I should take questions Tim um I can proceed with a couple other comments afterwards if there's time absolutely Curtis well thank you so much um let me actually if it's okay let me go to hfk first because he had his hand up first um on the frequency sweep from 21 seconds to 23 seconds was that a fast sweep a slow sweep um was a and so if if you don't if you have the is there a is there a situation where uh if you're not sweeping or or the rate of the sweep do you get a different result yes there different yes yes so so and actually Jim's on here too he can answer some of these as well uh but the sweep rate is is we're basically using a function generator and telling it okay go from 45 to 25 Kilz and do it over 40 seconds so it just simply just linearly sweeps now high frequency to low5 2 yeah toow to 2 yes high to low and if and it's a constant so so we currently do not have does it does it respond to a single frequency so you see a window where you have the response and you had that dramatic movement is there a frequency or a very narrow frequency where if you're just bobbling around say five 5,000 Cycles would you be seeing it deflecting consistently or does it require it to sweep in order for something to happen so my my answer to that would be we need more more data because some of the data I mean Jim has done a lot of these experim in the past the issue is that some of them that were done on air in the air um that experience is not necessarily valid for the um for the effect that we're trying to get because in air you're pumping air so we were seeing that where in air if we stick on the frequency hey we get a motion and we get that thing happening over 10 seconds we get that push or 5 seconds or whatever it was so we used to run pulses of 5 Seconds um but now I mean it's taking us a while to get back to seeing you know these significant motions again in a pretty decent vacuum and so now uh we're looking at how to lock in into those frequencies I think your your question implies like can we instead of sweeping for 40 seconds and then just getting a one second or half a second pulse can we lock in there for a longer time that's that's the next steps we are hoping to get a feedback circuit where we can know what that range is and have um have that feedback circuit reset the sweep the sweep uh so it starts again within that window uh there are runs that we have done that are shorter like narrowed in but they're repeated again they're just simply repeated there's no um tracking if the resonance because we expect the resonance to as it heats up to drift a bit uh we currently don't have uh anything in place to track that drift uh that's not in place now but that's something we're looking at let me let me add a different dimension to it the sweep is actually important because if you go back into the math of the effect it turns out the mass fluctuation on which all this depends goes as dpdt that is to say how rapidly the power is changing while the sweep is going on and the faster you sweep the larger dpdt is that that implies that implies that that spikes that by having rapid disturbances of the system encourages thrust yes yes do in fact we're not we're not using a sine wave we're using a Sawtooth wave to to help it's 90% symmetry saw tubes so that you emphasize second harmonic which is another thing you need for this to work what we find is that 1 kertz per second seems to be about the optimum sweeper right for these types of sweeps as Curtis says you can do chop it up and do shorter things and all that but it becomes increasingly complicated to interpret the results that way simple stay simple and get more complicated after you've got the thing M yeah we're going to get more complicated as time goes by because you can't do 40 second sweeps to get one pulse that's about two seconds long you know um we' got to improve on that but it's get the simple stuff down first and then worry about the other stuff right okay thank you awesome thank you uh let let me go to house CC next sir uh yeah um actually this is kind of more directed to James Woodward and then on the second basis is uh do to it's going to be directed toward our Curtis Horn uh Mr Woodward I've uh watched many of your videos where you made presentations concerning the um I I don't I don't know exactly what you call your drive maybe just call it the Woodward drive or mock effect Drive Mega Drive okay M um gity gravity assist impulse engines so okay anyway yes yes yeah so I read your book it was uh Springer about the uh the bases the theoretical and your work and so forth like that and I know you obtained your inspiration from the 1956 movie Forbidden Planet as a 16y old that's one of my favorite movies and uh I can see why that's inspiring so to get to the point with you is um I know that this is a been a longterm maybe 40-year Venture on your part to produce this drive and you made some amazing uh uh advancements in this but I just wondered uh even though you would like to refine it to the nth degree uh why not try to um encourage someone I know it's difficult I'm not I'm not I'm not unaware of the difficulties but to actually put this into deep space and run some test on that in deep space at your best uh efforts and maybe you might learn something that you haven't seen before and see uh before you uh uh you know uh no longer are with us hopefully it won't be soon but to get an idea of what this will do if it's an actual vacuum in deep space uh and see if uh this can be uh giving you some of what you hope to obtain uh as your inspiration um that's what I would like to see because I'd like to see this uh advance and uh I would hopefully like to see your fruition uh of your ideas the other thing I like to ask and I almost forgot it is like I said I read your book and I only have a little bit of a quibble with your concern or um conception that your drive is responding due to the wiggling of masses throughout the Universe and they all converge to give the effect that you need uh putting Einstein aside I'm more somebody who's in interested in quantum mechanics is it possible that the effect you see is uh really more quantum mechanical rather than relativistic and that maybe like the fluctuations that were mentioned by Mr Drew uh about 20 30 minutes ago might have some bearing the quantum fluctuation in what you're seeing in your drive so uh those are the two concerns I've always wanted to ask you about uh I admire your efforts and uh your um tenacity and following on this but I'd sure like to hear your thoughts about those two things uh the deep space and whether or not a revision of the basic Theory might be necessary well thank you that's all I had okay uh quick answer uh it's relativity and probably not quantum mechanics uh without relativity Theory you just simply don't get any of mathematics toess Express the effect it depends on inertia being C itational too which is a Step Beyond what general relativity says general relativity says inertia is like gravity but it not but it doesn't go so far as to say it is gravity Einstein believed that it was I think Einstein was right but I know a lot of people who don't think so uh an inspace test of this would be a very desirable thing to do the problem there is finding a ride and the funding to put together a space rated package you know these devices can be run in a vacuum chamber or in the lab here but to do an inspace test of the sort that you're talking about stuff has to be hardened so that it can withstand the vibration of the ride up and things like that and that's simply a matter of finding somebody with enough money and interest and all that to say yeah we'll help and uh we'll go ahead and do it it's not for want of wanting to do it it would be really nice to do right about that yeah uh the sorry to interrupt again uh but the uh planetary Society uh uh work with the um at the time when we had friendly Rel relations with the Russians they inv vagled them to put on one of their ballistic missiles a solar sale and they were able the solar sale itself failed even after the launch but it was a collaboration and that for a fairly good price they were able to um actually get a launch that was um um relatively cheap I understand those those issues I'm not unaware of those it's uh maybe who you know it's not what you know that get you the ride into space thanks anyway thank you I I should add that uh the getting us you know something certified is is is a big hurdle here uh we are of course you know uh you know that was one one um results and the question is are we repeating it right so I I have a video spoed up here for after the questions to show you what happened after um and that you know we're we're we're working on you know getting the thing to be able to repeat that uh level of thrust and uh it is uh it is tricky because this is this is not an easy device to put together it's not a device uh you know getting the fitment together and even like how we're mounting it so we're actively working on that and improving that because there's it looks like there's you know something there to for us to uh to to draw out so that is I would say one of the major things that we want to do is get it repeatable and then get replication and get get that published and and and go after funding so yeah did you have a question for me by the way oh Ju Just that you to amplify whatever he had to say again I'm aware of the things I follow this Space Program quite quite uh deeply and I know that you want to refine it down to the point but one thing I I want to emphasize and uh is that when you put it into an actual space environment say say you were in between Mars and Jupiter and turned it on you might see something that you never expected What You Won't See No matter what you do here on Earth and if you want to test this drive and and take take it to what it can see where it can be you might you know what what's the old expression U uh don't let the uh Perfection uh you know sty the good right right yeah no I I get what you're saying but uh that's what I'm trying deep seem to be great I I I totally understand what you're saying but keep in mind if we're able to actually replicate this effect the there's much more um there's there's vast implications for physics I mean this is not okay yeah we can go to Mars really quick this is um all of a sudden Einstein was right and we need to step back and figure out you know what really is going on so it it you know it opens up it's going to open up a lot of eyes uh change you know really really it's going to be a change in how we look at at the universe so so there's implications that you know we can't really say it's kind of like discovering the neutron type thing yeah well and you know if I understand courtesy if I could jump in one of the so one of the things that yourself and Jim had talked about when I visited was this is currently producing an average of if I remember correctly millin Newtons of force but you have peaks of Newton of force and you would talked about for at just as one example the the 2 mm thick pasos if you guys go to 1 mm thick pasos you may have a 10-fold increase in thrust another way that you can pick up thrust if I remember right is you were looking at a tracking amplifier that tracks the change in pazo as the heat right so so even even here on Earth I mean before you send it into space you have manyfold increases in performance that you're able to achieve yeah and and you know what that's that's a good segue if you want me to uh go to the next steps and I can talk about what those are um and then we can take please so let me let me do that let me go to the share go share that and I think uh so so the oh and by the way this was the previous reaction mask where we have supports on both sides of the brass um reaction Mass so you can see on the right here is aluminum cap this is an older design with the sleeve bearings and what I'm hoping to test is I'm hoping to test actually having aluminum cap with um supports so that we have a longer distance between um the supports the where where the bearings are and what that does is that actually gives the bearings um there's something called a two to1 rule um where where you you have to be within a certain distance of you know depending on the distance between bearings your forces have to be uh on on on axis a certain angle you can think of it that way so if we we spread out the bearings that should help with the with the the the stick slip issues that we're getting so we're we're we're kind of taking steps to to test that so we're going to be testing this device again and then I'm hoping to get um an aluminum cap with with ears with supports so that we can put supports on the um the furthest points away and and and see see if that helps us out uh so I I took vide so here's the the basically I I talked about the mounting sourcing materials okay so you mentioned the um the disc size so we are in talks with a manufacturer of uh pel uh stacks pel electric material and they are going to be building stacks for us because right now um you know having Jim build them or I build them it's kind of a you know it's it's a you know kind of like a a customade thing so what we're trying to do is get somebody with you know that has a QC and and and we'll we'll do repeat repeated steps that we can you know produce so we're sending them materials and we are sending them uh 2 mm stacks and I believe uh Jim is is going to be sending them 1 mm uh discs as well for them to make stacks for us so we're hoping to get you know uh more than one sample several samples I'm not sure how many so that we can test those um like you said uh you know in theory we should get something an order magnitude higher maybe eight times but also that is going to depend on how we drive it like you said so um so that's the sourcing so testing other bearings um in addition to uh separating the bearings I'm looking at floating bearings and other types of bearings uh hybrid bearings uh though of course the problem is we have very small devices so there's a limited number or limited off-the-shelf uh selection out there so uh I it's Jim and I are going back and forth about this and I'm trying to come up with something where you know we can we can reasonably build this thing right so the discs are 18 mm in diameter and I'm looking at ings that are 10 maybe 12 millimet diameter that's pretty big in relation to that that's a lot of mass so it's problematic uh to do those but uh um that's that's one of the things we're looking at is is how you know the the mounting design and we may have to test with these other things but uh uh that's that's yet to be determined in terms of like driving the device at resonance if I go back to that graph uh what that would mean is like if you look at part of this graph like right around 22 seconds you see how that red red part slopes really high so what that would mean is that going back and going to that slope over and over again right that's kind of what we're trying to do is like we we get that impulse we stop we go back from the beginning of that and and and now that but that graph May in the sweep in the frequency it may drift so we got to figure out a way to to track that drift and follow it and continue to get that that thrust so that should have a duty cycle where you know we'll have to run it we'll be able to run it a certain amount of time you know let it cool down um and that's what we're looking at is is getting those improvements so there is a lot of potential now as you said uh in terms of U the future testing so one of the things we're looking at is testing with the fully enclosed basically something that floats that's fully enclosed so having a driver where you know we could put it in a you know a small indoor pool Still Water everything floating you know everything enclosed including the power source everything and you know turn it on and see if the thing moves right so that that's something uh that's something that uh we're we're considering doing especially once we get this repeatable if we're able to repeatable repeatably get hundreds of millons on average right um with with high peak forces then we should be able to you know put something in the water maybe with multiple drives um or with the cooling system with the power sources inside the drivers inside everything and and and see it see it actually move without any propellers right that's that's what we're looking for so I'll stop sharing here go back to the questions awesome yeah thank you let let me go to Richard next Richard go for it sir oh we can there we go you're uh you're muted Richard yeah can you hear me now yeah oh okay good yeah so I was going to ask you are you Prejudice towards adding a second set of reaction masses in other words not electrically driven but just a damper it would sort of look like a pie that's cut like a pizza and it would be hinged at the circumference and what it would do is it would take that you know that high frequency that you're pushing with it would absorb it uh in the return kind of like when uh the the device was on a table at one time and it took off really fast and then it returned to the same spot so it's that that energy coming back that needs to be absorbed and it would be a the reason it would be a second reaction is because the first reaction would cause its expansion and then it would have a contraction when it went to go from the uh the high energy push to the low energy push that you're using there yeah so so to answer your question the the device the reaction mass that length has been tuned basically uh there were different links tested to optimize that link because in in that brass right the speed of sound is a certain velocity and you get the energy splashing back and coming back to the stack and so that that um mechanical resonance I'll call it is in the in the Run we just saw was like basically splot spot on with the electro Electro Electro electromagnetic resonance based so there is a stepup Transformer that is part of the driving circuit that is designed to be at that resonance frequency with the capacitance of the uh stack so that you get the same frequency the same you know basically the same resonant frequency as the mechanical resonance and so we are looking when we one of the things we're looking at is we're looking at the higher order harmonics and so what we see is that when the second and fourth order harmonics the ones that like add I think you're implying that um um when those Spike up in the first and third order the odd harmonics go down that's where we see that that Force start to come out so um there's a lot of subtleties and difficulties of like if we change anything that's that's why one of the reasons this takes a long time is that even when we change the supports right those those are little like uh like tuning Forks vibrating so even when we change the shape of one of those that's going to change the harmonics so we're very cautious about making changes or or gy is I I try to I try to like change everything but yeah there's a good why we want to go slow yeah because to me that thing seems like it has a a lot of energy in it it's just tapping into it so I had a a similar experience with the one that I I sent you a video on so that was a vertical uh acceleration but when I put that in a um or actually the horizontal and when I but when I put it in a a vertical position I lost a lot of I mean I still had my directional uh uh thrust but I was losing because the whole system was trying to balance itself out so what I did was I went on the crosssection so my linear force is going one way but I'm in Balance so I added this angular 30 to 45 and I just let it uh bounce back and forth and it took everything that was in the vertical position or the horizontal position and it it gave it its acceleration back which would be like a literally like space it put position where I had that complete balance like I was in space right without being in space right because it they just balancing itself out now the weird part was is my uh uh my uh linear Force right when I moved those to the other side it actually went in the opposite direction so my linear force was actually dictated by the cross-section Force which was totally blew my mind I was like whoa wait a minute let me ask you a quick question so are you doing this is experiment you're doing an air right you're hanging it yeah that's what and that that would be the horizontal position right so and that I had a suggestion for you real quick is that you're able to videotape your experiment right you're able to have a camera on it yeah I sent you a video I don't know if you I think you took a look at it so um so what you might want to do is is if you go to um if you look up tracker it's a it's a physics software it's like tracker. fisl let. org I think it was like made by MIT but it'll actually let you take video and you can assign points on your device and actually like look at the forces that are generated and and like make graphs and stuff like that I think that might help you like help you and understanding what's going on with your device I I saying is I I was able to to replicate in one set of circumstances and another but I had to add on these extra components so anyway I was just right trying to throw that out there because when you're yeah put one mass is pushing the other mass and there you know when it's coming back there you know just keep it simple if you have an expansion and you probably like if you look at the mechanical resonance and what you were changing it's probably have to do with that that would be my guess kind of getting closer to so who's who's who's the next I see four hands up yeah let's go to let's go to Mage next okay so I have a question to basically maybe answer to uh how CC because uh there is a there was a company and there is a company that's basically has an device based on quantied inertia I'm not sure how what's the relationship in what you're doing and then maybe there's some similarities the way it looks to me I'm I'm I'm not really know but they sent a satellite and which basically at the moment I think that they failed but no no the satellite failed not their experiment because that's that's what what it is I'm not sure if you're aware of that or or or basic it's Mike molik I think this is that's his theory but they the company I don't think it has nothing to do with them but it's about Quantum quantise inertia that's that's IBO IBO yeah I've heard Jim's opinions about Mike and Drew knows about all that so um but yeah we uh this this Theory like Jim says is based on relativity um yeah well let me let me let me go to Brendon next Brendan go for it sir hey guys um yeah I'm I'm trying really hard to understand um and uh forgive me if you guys have already been over this um but just out out of curiosity pure curiosity um I sort of previous to all this I glanced through say's paper from the 50s um and I um read Jim's book as as well as I could um not up on the math um just I would love for my own Layman's mind and maybe others that might be listening to understand a little bit more of um so you guys are are are kind you're operating on that that Universal field of inertia that seama believed was generated from gravity in the entire universe or something like that um forgive me if I'm butchering it um and you in order to do that you you're acting on that by having two masses on either end of this device that are vibrating at different frequencies um with the p that's the what the piso electric buzz buzzers are for right and um that is is somehow generating thrust um and that's that's the first question like seeing how those all fit together maybe just give me that Glory moment of I I see I see the light um and the other one is now I know Jim said this most likely has nothing to do with quantum mechanics um and uh know I respect that it's a general relativity phenomenon you don't need um you don't need to even touch on Quantum but I wondered if you're familiar with the um er equals epr conjecture uh by um susin and Mala and whether or not any of this possibly has to do uh with that um connection between micro wormholes and entanglement potentially um and that could have anything to do with that here if you're open to the idea of Bridging the Gap there because it seems like it might be connected no pun intended and that's that's my question for now yeah can I say something on that can you hear me so do you have a okay yeah real quick um so like if you're standing uh 50 ft away from someone on a cell phone and you make a sound you could hear that Echo and the closer you get so that that's kind of something to think about there you mean Doppler the Doppler effect yeah you have like two different signals but you actually end up with some kind of a a uh you know a wave between the two phones but you have a different wave that is echoing between them right like you have a direct you have a direct frequency and then you have like a a longitudinal frequency so you kind of have to just think of that for a minute and kind of it gives you a little bit of insight on that thought process yeah I mean mentally I'm seeing I these days I'm seeing more and more just between all these theories it has a lot to do with um Energy Information density retention over over SpaceTime and there being a differential between these two locations um and uh in all the different all the different applications um that's what I'm seeing more in more but I'd love to hear from Jim and Curtis on this yeah yeah well Curtis Jim do you guys have any ER equal epr any comments Einstein Rosen bridges are equal to e Einstein bski and Rosen which is [Music] entanglement incompletion of f mechanics no uh E equals epr that conjecture is being pursued as far as I know by Jack Sara and some friends Ray Chow Nathan enan um I think that's it on ju f is Texas space operation uh does this have anything to do with that no not really no I think was just asking yeah I'm sort of was sort of wondering if there's there's some possible convergence between theories here not that you're using that here yeah like the sound when it travels through that through that Circle there it's going from one point to another so it does have a relationship even though the the ER and the you know there's the whole technical on that but just to get like a physical mental reaction you know there is a a moment in one place that can take a place in another you know if you have uh your induction working properly you know induction you can tap tap along the the line of induction too as well um so Richard let me let me if it's okay let me go back to Jim and Curtis because they were they were kind of working through this from their their model go ahead Jim go ahead yeah no mock effect gravity assist thrusters are actually simpler than Einstein Rosen Bridget is and entanglement stuff like that there's a paper by Hal Fern on cosmology and all of that for Halal worked out mock effects on the basis of uh hoil and Nar car's extension of general relativity to include wheeler Fineman back from the future signals okay uh Curtis actually has that paper and probably can Curtis can you post that to these people so they can see how house paper on that sure yeah I can I can think it to the chat later yeah the the devices themselves The Brass mask is the important one the aluminum cap is just there to keep the pzo stack from tearing itself apart it adds preload and it it has an acoustic signature and what's going on but it's there mainly to hold the thing together the brass mass is the thing that the pzo stack pushes against in order to maximize the acceleration of the stack near the aluminum cap because the larger the acceleration the larger the effect uh so it's uncomplicated what I can say is this I'm in the process of making the first draft of what I call a benchmark paper for this project bringing everything Theory and observation and all that up to date of about this time and where we are and when that becomes available while I'm near the end of the series section now but there's some more to go on it but eventually that will be out there and hopefully will be easier to absorb than the book which I wrote a dozen years ago when I was a lot smarter and knew a lot more you know so you're getting the wiow down thing in this Benchmark paper but it'll be available soon the the picture is coming into clearer Focus uh from the fil I see it thank you for answering um I appreciate that well let me let me move along to hfk hi Curtis could you say again on the resonance that you have I'm sorry the harmonics the first second uh third and fourth harmonics what was happening again so so why don't we uh go to the video and it's it's much easier to see if I point it out there let me oh actually I was going to play for you guys the the um the next very next uh run that happened the the following day uh can you guys see that screen yeah maximize it please there we go can you guys still see it better yep yep okay and the bottom left is are the um basically the you see the that the Peaks and that red uh so the first harmonic is about you know this is okay this video has already started so let me let me um started from the beginning um and you'll see those Peaks Rift and you go from 40 you see the second Peak is the second harmonic third Peak is the third harmonic fourth Peak is the fourth etc those are the harmonics now with's this is this video if I go back here what if you're looking at the device as a side to the harmonics you'll notice that the um if you look at the the rod here you'll notice that bearing pops out so that we had an issue that we had to take it out and work it so that's why we're not you know we're we're had to rework it uh Jim glued them on and we're try and now we're having trouble lining it so so anyway so that's the that's why we don't I don't have a repetition of that previous thing so we're we're we're still working on the the problems but yeah this down here on the left that shows you the different harmonics and and as they as they drift along during a run and you said that the second and fourth harmonics when those come into play is when you were seeing maximum thrust yes or or the first and third no the second and fourth um is is the thrust making itself evident after you've been pumping energy into the system so that when it hits these resonance Energy may is somehow being dumped at those uh resonant frequencies that's a good question because it sounds like um for lack of a bare description you're charging it up and you're getting to trigger points and when the triggers happen at the harmonics boom it moves um so in terms of charging it up one thing to keep in mind these bearings self basically background noise here there we go um uh they they are self-lubricating so when we first put this device together you try we try to move that but remember between the stack the thing is vibrating very quickly so that vibrational energy um it could there could be mechanical effects uh there and that's what we're trying to minimize with this uh with the bearing design is right but it seem it seems like because it's being you know the vibration are happening and you're doing the frequency sweep it almost seems like the energy is being stored in standing weight it's being stored somehow in the vi the vibrations are being stored and when you hit these frequencies the resonances based upon the you know the current size and geometry of the device those become triggers to let the energy loose well that that's something we could I mean if we did a swe sweep and it was outside the resonance you wouldn't get any of these motions so it's not like there's energy being stored and then I mean it would it it would have to go away right something would have to happen so I mean we could do that we could run runs outside of resonance and we have and nothing happens in addition to that one of the uh configurations that we have it's called the null experiment where we take basically two masses right and they're equal masses on right and we run through the same sweep and you don't see that same you know motion you you see a little bit of vibration like I said because of you know the the the violence of the mechanical resonance but it's nothing it's nothing like what we see so so that that kind of ruls out that's that's basically a null test to rule out a lot of these effects that that we that could have that conventional effects that uh that might explain the motion because if if it was you know a magnetic effect or something else or one like you're saying where things are you know there's a well energy being somehow stored in the system it's mechanical energy magnetic something but it it looks like it's an energy dump that gets triggered during the resonances and that's why you get the motion yeah I don't I don't um I don't know if I would think of it that way but it's possible I I no just something something to consider because it's it's very interesting that it happens on the harmonics well what okay so the it has to happen on the harmonics because things have to align the these are if you look at uh Jim's work these are basically transient terms so you have to be on that on that you know you have to be in the jerk you know the higher D derivatives of motion that's why it's so hard to replicate so it it's yeah because the resident region is so so narrow to make it work yes okay yeah that's what makes it difficult to do other otherwise yeah otherwise it you know it wouldn't have been 30 years I think exactly so thank you um yeah um also um Thanks James for all your hard work with this device uh I saw like Tim's videos and it's really incredible how much like thought was put into this device over the years and uh hopefully uh people carry the torch and get this thing across the finish line and put it in space and hopefully you get to see it happen um and uh so I guess my uh first question is uh why why brass uh what um have you tried various other materials brass is easy to machine and it's cheap and it's fairly dense is the reason why brass it's just Simplicity all it is is a slug of stuff it also has pretty good acoustic properties so when the PCT stack sends waves into it the waves get reflected from the open end they don't get absorbed in the brass that much okay and the reflective waves come back and reinforce what's going on in the stack so brass is a good material uh Curtis wants to run tungsten tungsten is hard to machine it's expensive you know when we get to an ideal design maybe we'll do TST have you have you considered perhaps working with a bismuth alloy or something it can be still relatively resonant but denser than brass uh James do you need uh diss of tungsten what they have to be regarding the I can I can mix up some Alloys for that shape would they have to be in terms of the the U reaction Mass the issue is that part of it is that it's um threaded so they have some threading in the brass and that's kind of hard to do with these other materials and it's also um Jim's using the um the university um machinist so uh you know materials materials need to be you know something they're comfortable with so how about talum talum is relatively soft um and machinable although very dense it's a little pricey but um yeah maybe tantalum given the resources and the time and all that we'll try anything that's you can make a decent trace for well yeah and you guys have Curtis you guys have Curtis email right and Jim yeah we could we could we can correspond via email about that anyway the other question I the other question I had um was uh so so second and fourth harmonics but not the first and the third so I was thinking um so one of the things I was thinking about this device is if there's a way if there's a way to produce mechanical squeeze states of the atoms in the object then the squeeze States we know that they have a different I mean this is coming at it from a uh sort of a polarizable vacuum Quantum vacuum approach but trying to connect it to relativity towards the Unified Theory but um if you kind of if you picture that the um squeeze vacuum State somehow Alters the inertia of the atoms if you if you sorry not squeeze vacuum but squeeze atom state so squeezed in the quantum sense not like mechanically squeezed um so if you have Quantum squeezing of the matter particles and that uh Alters their inertia then um you would expect to see that squeezing for all of the harmonics however the even the even harmonics would always add and the odd harmonics would cancel so so you would you would uh you would get a Thrust in One Direction but then a Thrust in the other direction over the course of the odd harmonic but the even harmonic if you if you have a a a Quant squeeze State over this piece of matter and that changes its inertia then um then you uh yeah I mean with the second and fourth harmonic that would always the force would always be in the same direction through the period the force is in the same well you get you can get forces in both directions depending upon the phase of the first and second harmonics and the second and fourth harmonics yes yes but if you have the third if you have odd harmonics you have odd harmonics it will flip-flop I I hate to be a wet blanket but Quantum vacuum that you're talking about is how put offs polarizable vacuum something like it yeah yeah it's an electromagnetic theory of inertia and electromagnetic theories of inertia are just simply wrong because the Loren Force the operative force in that equation and the Run Force gives you different masses for the neutron and the proton when you calculate it you know which means that inertia is not electromagnetic it's gravitational as Einstein said okay the problem is is that when he created general relativity he didn't put inertia into the equation of motions explicitly it's an implicit force in general relativity as it is in all plastical mechanics so but then well why why couldn't we in principle imagine a uh a Quantum vacuum which is full of gravitons instead of photons you can imagine anything you wanted that doesn't necessarily make it real okay you'd have to think of some way of showing that there's a good physical reason for believing that's the case okay at this point all we need is that when you push on something that a force arises to act against according to or law an attempt to accelerate an object give it a so-called proper acceleration that's all you need you don't need any quantum mechanical stuff in order to get this okay you'll probably find it easier to follow in this thing that I'm writing up right now so you want to take a look for it I will because I'm I'm trying to I'm trying to strip it down so that it's just basic Essentials and stuff like that and not get off onto too many sidetracks uh I would one thing I would appreciate then if you can for college students and uh bachelor's degrees uh if you could uh mention prerequisite uh knowledge required to understand the material that would be very helpful oh are you familiar with the dam verion operator yes all right if you're familiar with the dalum verion operator and classical wave equations and all that you won't have any trouble with this all right thank you all right that's here's something you can ah perfect thank you very oh yeah that's good that's good yeah good starting point I think right Jim yeah it's very thank you guys uh let me if it's okay let me go to Drew really quick and then I still I still have my thing on Harry sprain stuff I want to go to Harry after right after Drew Drew go for it sir hey Curtis um this is first of all amazing you know congratulations on seeing some some high Watermark uh testing data um this kind of reminds me a little bit of back when a few years ago um when when we we were only making about 12 or 15 or 20 Micron Newtons of thrust no matter what we did we would start the thing into a into an oscillation kind of resonance we would actually cycle through and pulse it was pulse DC at the time and we would get that thing up to where we actually saw you know a huge increase we'd go like 10 15x the the the static thrust in our residence and and that's kind of what I'm thinking that you're seeing here is that um when you hit the residence frequency it maybe has taken your standard thrust that you're that you would have made you would make continuously and it's amplifying it 10 or 15 or 20x um I just want to let you know that we saw that um and and we were making so little a Thrust that we had to see something so that's what we were we did we actually put our our static system which is a DC Static device into a pulsed resonance and saw about a 10 or 20x increase in the thrust it it's it's not that we were making more thrust at the time it's that we were seeing like a like a resonance amplification of it so I just want to throw that out there just in case you know there's one one more way that the Universe can try and fool you so just be aware of of that maybe and and and that might have some some use to you but other than that man awesome Kudos on on the high water mark you bring it on we need your drive yeah yeah and and one thing I'll say is that okay you know these are all positive promising we've had things where you know when when when you know I when I first started kind of fulltime with the project which was back in 2021 right it's almost three years now almost um we were doing the experiment in air it was in a on a pendulum and I was really worried and uh finally you know we got I convinced Jim you know he convinced talked to the team he put baffles and you know it turned out yeah it was just air pumping and so that was a big setback so it's been you know there's ups and downs but uh um the big thing here is for me is that you know I want to be able to repeat this not only repeat this with the same device be able to make a new device seen it the same way it works the same or close to it right we we the replication is something that you know given the fact that there has been replication attempts in the past and you know things have gone wrong for one reason or another um um they they've been UNS we've been unsuccessful with that you know years ago and of course smaller forces than we're seeing now but uh we really I'm I'm for me at least I'm not speaking for Jim this is me I want to replicate this I want to be able to say okay yeah we're we're getting you know this stack and I can change out the masses do a null test it goes away I put put the this you know the the reaction mass and the aluminum cap and the it comes back right I can send that out to to any to Mark and you know he can do the same thing replicate it right whoever whoever it is so uh we're we're trying to get there and like I said it's a for me it's a matter of this is a a this is a physics experiment yes it gives it's propelling this propulsion the the application but really for me this is It's pH it's about the physics I mean that's fundamental to what we're doing here awesome awesome well Curtis thank you so much thank you so much and I know that you have you have a family event that you have to get to so thank you again so much um well and Jim thank you as well so guys what I want to do now is if Harry is still with us and Yep looks like he's here Harry do do you want to walk us through you have been dropping amazing stuff into chat and I have been drooling over this for the last hour can can you walk us through some of this can you do some screen shares and things like that yes I can can everyone hear me okay I I can I can yes all right not too familiar with this program so let me make sure uh let's see screen sharing yeah so there should be a green button at the bottom of your screen called share oh share screen there we go okay yeah and you can either share the entire screen or you can just share a window um and it depends how much stuff you have that you want to share because okay let me um let me open it up here I'll just go to my website hopefully we're doing okay it's the middle of August in here it's at least 85 so okay right on the right on the edge of passing out Chrome tab all right there we go so I I can see I can see myself um okay you can see yourself right now you can see screen right yes sir magnet modeling okay um what I've invented is a propellantless propulsion system it uses magnets to dampen centrifugal force and dissipate that potential energy as that arm is being thrown out how do I I I want to see you guys two at the same time can I do that I am not sure hang on let me uh I'll just make two screens then I can talk and see you at the same time and you can see okay can you see the the the QD screen no actually it's it's showing the other screen uh it's hang on let's try to stop sharing let's go back to sharing where did it go excuse me guys I'm doing my best oh that's okay they just did a major update to zoom so I'm I'm kind of lost that should be it there we go yep perfect okay because I want to be able to see you guys as well it's sort of weird talking to myself ah Perfect all right uh so what uh what I've invented is called Sid it stands for cical in pulse Drive um I found out by building a magnet model that I call Emily about oh 2001 I came up with an idea of how to use a magnetic field to have a rotor on the interior follow the magnetic curve as it increased in force and it would pull the rotor around all the way to the top and I put an electromagnet there which creates the same pulse as the rotor magnet allowing it to Jump by and that's Emily stands for electromagnetically initialized lateral induction engine and I've been able to capture magnetic field and utilize that through a generator and produce more energy than I'm using but the problem is it's not a huge amount of energy it's just a small amount of energy so now I'm working on scaling it stacking it up 10 Emil all stacked up and working in unison that's what I'll be demonstrating to the world I have one now it's self-powered it's been running for six months but it's still under testing so I don't want to display it to anyone yet after after inventing that there were prototypes in my lab that I had taken the rotor assembly and I made it so I could move the magnets in and out and I forgot to tighten it and it's running and the magnets as they came around to the electromagnet they got thrown out a little bit and as they did it created this little punch and sort of drove this across the thing and I was like wow that's amazing but what can I you know what can I do with it so I just started thinking about it and I was like wow that's producing a little bit of thrust let's go and see what we can do so I then went and built a prototype in 2011 and I went to Professor Mitchell Walker at the Georgia Institute and I asked him I said hey I have an idea I think I've found a way of producing propellantless propulsion and he saidwhat and I said no no I think I really did and he said okay well go build something and come back and show me so I went back to the drawing board and after working iteration after iteration I came up with a small device that showed him it was doing something something unusual when and you'll see the videos that I posted if you go back to the one where it's on the scale it's lifting itself off the scale enough where I can see the weight it gets lighter but it doesn't first get heavier I would challenge you to go stand on a scale and just lift yourself straight up without first pushing down you can't so then I went to the next step of testing it with a piece of paper underneath it and yes it would jump complet completely off the ground so that I could pull the paper out not oscillating around like a bad crazy washing machine but all of it coming off the ground still wasn't convinced Walker said you know could be this could be this third party energy blah blah blah I said okay so I went back and I built the last iteration of it and that's the one you see that's on the torsion balance and then I started demonstrating the T balance to him and he went wow there could be something here so he gave me a series of tests that I went through over four years taping the rotor up pointing the thrust straight up pointing it sideways pointing it down uh removing all the magnets uh covering the whole thing in plastic so no wind can blow on it or anything can happen to it and it passed it passed every single test and he said oh my God so then we took it to Georgia Tech and we tested it on the water table and it did exactly like we thought the outside of it is trying to move One Direction as the interior turns the other so our force was going around in a circle and you'll see that from the 2009 report which is 200 I'm sorry 2019 report of the data data analysis you'll see the thrust Vector was constantly changing it did pretty thrust as you see but it just went around in a circle this is what was actually happening so we knew we had something so I went back to the board and I said okay we've got to get rid of the counter rotative forces so we build another one going the opposite direction this is going to stabilize it and allow us to get a Thrust in One Direction so we did just that we went back and uh hold on we went back to Georgia Tech with our newest machine that proved that it worked all right where's the uh uh oh is this not here oh no that's the same uh uh hang on guys I'm sorry I I thought I had everything up um it was the the the Sid you know the regular Sid I can show it on the uh I can show it on the magnet modeling yeah so we came up with this which is the Dual rotation system which stops the counter rotation now the Next Step was how much thrust are we creating what is it doing so we put it on the water table and once again started it and it averages out at about 710 millons of thrust and uses about 17 watts of energy to run the two small motors so then I went the next step and building an actual big prototype that I could put on the torsion balance and that is here yes so this and now most miraculous thing I discovered about it and I did this like three weeks before I went to spacecom 2024 I had it in my lab and I ran it at a really high RPM speed and I was amazed what happens is close of it you you might want to turn your Vol turn the YouTube volume off oh yeah there we go I'm sorry okay oh that's okay it was just really loud okay yeah okay so now it's running I'm at the space common Orlando demonstrating it to everybody and we'll get a good closeup okay there we go okay so you know how Sid works that the rotor arms are thrown out and that little punch creates a Thrust that moves It Forward well guess what if I go really high RPM it reverses what I mean is the rotor arm is thrown out it stays out and then it hits the repulsive magnetic field so hard like a ramp it slams it back in and I get what I call the Horseshoe effect it doesn't go towards the Gap it goes away from it because the punch from the magnetic field is harder than the centrifical force throwing it out but if I slow the RPM speed down it reverses the arm is thrown out with more Force than the magnetic field and it turns around and goes the opposite direction on the torsion balance and it also proves propellantless propulsion because they're turning the same exact Direction I haven't done anything but Chang their RPM speed have you have you accounted for any airflow in this device because completely in plastic it was completely it was in a sealed box at Georgia Tech yeah I I would suspect that um the change in Direction may be connected to airflow because this in this version it's not covered but um I I I know from personal experience this device should work it works we've tested it every way to Sunday um we're now teaming up with uprb we're building a small prototype roughly about the size of the one you see now and we're bringing it up to the space station they're going to hold it up in micrograph Let It Go Remote controlly turn it on and it's going to fly across the space station very cool I think um if you had covered this vacu yes it doesn't need to be in a vacuum that's the beauty of it it doesn't have any out gases it doesn't produce any heat it doesn't do anything you can take it and place it on the interior of the ISS just at the right directory right trajectory and it would uh keep the ISS in orbit it doesn't need magnets either that's another thing it does need magnets whoever keeps saying that is absolutely wrong okay we've tested it without magnets we've tested it in the magnet modeling system everything it doesn't work the magnetic field is what makes it work it dissipates this cical Force those things you showed me are stupid stupid because they're sitting on a floor anything that has some counter rotation thing to it is going to vibrate and secondly you're not gonna have something move and stop move and stop move and stop I don't mean to get angry about it but I I get really sick of people trying to compare this to something else because it's not yeah well well Harry hold hold on um yeah I so I think I I think it's I I think the mistake is what you're talking about a slipstick propulsion which is what the the non-magnetic devices use all of them are exactly the same they have to be on a Surface if you lift them off the ground on a pendum balance they just go back and forth and back and forth they don't do anything put them on a abortion balance like mine they don't do anything yeah that's the slip that's the slip stick and that's one of the things from again from the time that I spent with Jim Woodward that's one of the things that they have been very careful to to rule out on theirs but what you're talking about is a much larger scale you know so so yeah I I I could I can see where you're yeah um yeah well if it's okay Tim no just to to reiterate that what Azrael and Israel did uh his device only had two reaction masses and there was two devices next to each other so the pulsing that you're seeing is because the motors didn't spin up together had they spun up together and like they did in a previous test you'd see it runs a lot more smoother across on a torsion balance show it to me on a pendulum and I'll believe it again it's on the floor nothing on the floor produces thrust it's all just pushing off the floor yeah that's the so Harry have you considered um you you mentioned doing it on a waterboard uh one of the yeah so one of the things that that was was interesting and this this again goes to the slipstick thing um Roy thornson you did a canoe have you thought about replicating the famous canoe experiment no I I don't need to we're Way Beyond that we've got a magnet model that produces it I just made $30,000 for a magnet model to be done that produces how much thrust we're now just determining what size we're going to build the producing thrust side is gone guys we we did it now we're going to the next step yeah well if it's okay let let me go to melage uh he has his hand raised so you mentioned that you say that because of magnets you convert centrifugal force into into thrust that's what it is correct so here is here is what I sort of here it is right here this is it right showing how the magnetic field holds it back it holds it in equilibrium between the centrifugal force trying to throw it back out and now on the other side of the magnet if you go to the blue side the Stater magnet it doesn't feel that same thrust the field is sort of dissipating that centrifical flush as it comes around and only when the magnet's thrown out at this six o'clock position does it feel a light punch it happens 32 times per second 17 times each rotor and it produces a continuous thrust I'll take a look closer look Bas what I'm sort of looking at it have you considered that you may be in a way sort of pushing against quantum foam because of of that I have no idea I don't know if it's the ether I don't know what it is the only thing I go back to is what Tesla said you can attach your machines to the wheel workings of Nature and you can have Infinite Energy it also has to work in Reverse where if I'm dissipating an energy it is continuous so because I'm I'm at when when thing things are moving you are creating a magnetic field that it's basically pushing against with you say you have two magnets and you know positive I mean south or or North touching each other but if these two magnets have different strength then I I basically I have a a little paper about that then you would see if if the ether exists or there Quantum virtual particles you can push against it because of the the the momentum on because of the uh how these uh basically magnetic fields react with basically part uh positive and and and and and and negative when say a Quantum form consist of of particles they're popping up just and in pairs and if if the magnetic field is have has a same uh polarity okay but different strength and and then you'll see some of these particles positive would be would be deflected one way or the other and the strength of deflection would be different then and that could create a Thrust okay so it's this is sort of my idea and and and I can see a similar thing in in in your case but I'm not sure it's it's just a wild guess okay so that's my I am fascinated to know how and why it works but you're talking about trying to understand a magnetic field that is that is the goal of everything everyone's trying to do the same thing to get to that super high energy State whatever a magnetic field is yeah if I could interject um I think you know Harry based on where you're at it seems like you're following a really amazing experimental path and it's it's probably a bit premature to try and attach that to any kind of speculative theories you know oh uh yeah I yeah it's doing what it's doing I don't know exactly why it's doing what it's doing but it does it and again I'm just showing all the tests that I went through these are all years of iterations after building it and going over and over it like this okay it's spinning oh is it the air that's turning it well the next experiment I turn the thrust straight up and it doesn't move at all but I have not not I'm not talking about Theory you see I'm very very skeptical of of what I just told you but I have an experiment that basically proves it that that's my point so may you may have a very similar effect your device that's what I'm saying I can I can send you a basically a short presentation yes please yeah maybe could drop your yeah maybe you could drop your email in the chat yeah and the the only the only reason that I try and differentiate between those is um you know anytime you have an experiment that produces results the more amazing the better right um you know people always get kind of the they get rushed by folks trying to attach a theory to it and and I think that that can confuse things and in this case it's probably a little bit premature so here's a video of it with a rotor arms taped in running at the same RPM speed everything exactly the same I have the streamers hanging around it to show there's no wind blowing on it it doesn't do anything it just sits there no so I I I I touched the the the link to the presentation you'll see you you may actually see that that that we may be talking a very similar thing in terms of why things work for you MH awesome okay I tested it every way to Sunday I can't think of any other way to test it and like I said we're sort of beyond that they're ready to build the Prototype and bring it up there to the ISS and bring it to the world this is my first introduction to the world I've been working on this for decades yeah this is really exciting um let me go to let me go to Jared Yates Harry I gotta say even though I am not normally a fan of gyroscopic thrusters even though they have been proven to work I just it's a personal thing I'm not usually a big fan I gotta say I'm sold on your thing I love it man it's awesome well done great job you have put in a buttload of effort into this it's it's very obvious that you have worked really hard in this so I got three questions and one comment suggestion yes um so I think you just answered the first one so on those white rotors you got those red magnets right and those move Inward and outward as it goes through its rotation right correct seven 20 millimeters okay yeah that's what the second part of that question was was uh percentage of the Gap distance that's closed when it's fully close to it is it is it like 20% closer is it 50% closer how much ah ah yes this is what happens and in the video uh the magnet modeling showed us this as a rotor arm comes around centrifical Force throws it out moves out 20 millimeters and it stays out there for approximately a millisecond it is imparting all of its energy within that millisecond and then it travels a little bit hits the magnetic field and is pushed back in but not slammed in it takes it about halfway so there is no counter punch to it just One Direction and then it holds it in that equilibrium State all the way around to throw it out again so the magnet never gets the opposite reaction that uh um Sawtooth wave uh asymmetric damping is it's the secret sauce it's the thing in like most alternative propulsion things you got to get problem was at the end there you you see that weird curve it was getting that magnet to break away the rotor magnet to get away from it without being captured and pulled back so my next question is um do the magnets on each of those rotors I assume then they need to be in Phase with each other you can't just spin these things by themselves they have to be locked together no they can spin at any RPM because the the thrust coming out is sort of like this but it averages like you know almost a straight line so you can get even if they're off the RPM speed is not perfect on both of them it doesn't matter Shield just drives along and our recent test that we did is we'll run one Rotor at a higher RPM speed and the other one had a lower RPM speed and I can drive it like a tank interesting um third question uh so that opening that you have it's got an interesting little roll out on it and it has a certain width to it can you describe the iterative process that you had to go through to arrive at that that opening and that that one-sided being rolled out yeah that's the that's the key that's the secret sauce right there is uh that took a long time to develop as the rotor arm comes around it wants to leave the orbit but if you don't have that perfect little lip on it in order to bend that magnetic field around the back of the magnet will reach around and grab the rotor magnet slam it on the brakes so I had to experiment and find the perfect little curve to allow it to break away and then I once I had that I had to time the Gap with whatever my RPM speed was and how hard my rotor arm comes out and if you go to my website and look at my old pictures you can see i' I've built like 14 iterations of this device all different configurations the rotor was up here the rotor was in the thing and then I got a really cool 3D printer and it got pretty wicked I could build the parts I needed and things I needed and it's just it's been awesome this is my life this is what I do and the last thing I got the last thing I got is um a suggestion or two so I I know from my experiments with my stuff that when you have a magnet and you slap it with a high voltage pulse you get a temporary increase in the magnetic field strength so if you wanted to have at certain points in the rotation if you wanted to be able to time that with high voltage pulses you'll get stronger magneet fields which I assume correlates to more and we're also putting it in a hall boach array which will put a lot more force on one side because then we could increase the cical force speed and you know we get bigger punch for a smaller package so so the high voltage gives you more and then if you need to cancel the field in certain places you may have already looked at this uh you can get a magnetic shielding material and the cool thing about magnetic shielding material is when you put yep when you put this is M Metal when you put a high frequency signal on a mu metal you can cancel or dampen its magnetic thing so you can end up having like a magnetic switch by using this so if you combine those two of high voltage pulses with high frequency pulses you could end up getting uh much more o for your buck see what we've got from NASA what they've told us is it has to be sealed it can't have any magnetic coming out of it no direction whatso I won't be able to take it and put it on a steel thing and it's going to fall off so we're doing that whole thing is going to be a me metal and I'm thinking of putting a low voltage through the muw metal to absolutely cancel out the magnetic field awesome awesome work man keep it up okay awesome oh uh sorry sorry one last question so you said you're taking it up to you're taking it up to space uh what's the timeline on that um we're working with uev we're now on the raising the finances for it we got to raise $2 million and we've got a bunch of billionaires that are looking at it and stuff and after we raise the money we're going to uev and uev will build the Prototype then we're meeting with Florida space and all the big people and everything and figuring out how to approach NASA or whoever and my idea is this um I know those astronauts are trapped in space right now I might be able to help and the reason is UPR could build this prototype that's producing at least a Newton or more of thrust they could send that up and it would be a two-fold situation that's paying for itself what that means is you now have a Thruster that you could mount on the interior of the ISS at the right coordinate or whatever you know in order to keep it in the right you know in orbit I don't know all that orbit stuff um and they wouldn't have to do it again by refueling it and doing all the other stuff and orbit correction so that would save them a huge amount of money $60 million or so because of the lodge so we're talking $120 million savings that might be enough of an incentive to go get them [Music] now and I was thinking getting publicity behind it and everything I think we can push this yeah awesome well let me let me go to zultan next zolan go for it and you know I have a I have a two question basically uh maybe I don't know if I can recall it correctly you mentioned something about water surface uh can you uh like elaborate what the what the purpose of the water surface is and the other one is um uh when you show your the last format to the folks at Georgia Tech like what they say or is it like out of their hand now you are going to naso instead of Georgia or it's are you still working with the Georg guys or is it like it grew way bigger than that thanks no I'm we put it on the water table in order to prove that it was producing thrust so we took Sid and we put it on the water table with a uh flotation device underneath it Sid was completely sealed in in a frame so no air could mess with it no whatever and it was put in another room at the Daniel Guggenheim Aerospace school in Atlanta and we stood in the other room and remotely turned it on and measured the amount of thrust and how much movement it made on its own and that was the proving point that wow we really did it and then we went further and we did torsion balance test and this test and that test and everything and then I've now demonstrated it at spacecom and uh it's just going crazy you know we we've discovered it now let's see how big we can make it what can we do with it what kind of things can it be used for um all kinds of stuff uh it's just gonna sort of change the whole Paradigm of space travel because now you no longer have to refuel satellites you simply charge through photovoltaic cells charge batteries and now the satellites can stay in orbit almost indefinitely they have the ability to go anywhere they want to go with no limitations what is this that someone said sorry but not human space flight qualified are you talking about Sid that doesn't yeah Gary wrote that in chat uh yeah he worked at Nasa what what he means it's not it's not qualified for human space flight right there would be that's exactly what uprev is going to do they have all the certifications and all the other stuff they work with Rogue Aerospace to build satellites and put them in orbit right now so all that's taken care of yeah so let me go to Mark next Mark go for it sir okay so um sorry Harry I didn't mean to upset you before but uh this is this is stuff that we're already working on we've already built a device like yours uh we already know that works and we have different theories as to why it works so um why haven't you built one and put it in space um okay well we built this is one of dozens of projects that we're working on but um I we have a different Theory as to why it works first I want to ask you a couple of questions the magnets there's four magnets that are rotating around and they're sliding in and out is that correct correct correct and they slide out at a specific spot in your profile the spot in the profile where they slide out that's the the vector of thrust right right and you can change that by taking the whole Stater array and just turning it we have one where we can turn it and contr right right the Stater the Stater array the opening of The Stater array is the vector of your thrust what you are working on is called an asymmetric centrifugal device this is a category of propellantless propulsion things it has nothing to do with magnets um your magnets are a cool way of getting rid of your your uh friction on the edges um show me a tors imbalance test of a divice that you built and have it go around in circles like mine I I mean Jeremiah has one like that he can he can uh set it up on a torch and bance we were just uh Happy enough seeing that it works but I'll show you in a moment what the the next thing we're going to do is um one second here it is scen share so this right here is um our uh Mercury Vortex engine so this is doing the same thing that you're your device is doing but it's using rotating mer again do you have a built prototype doing it uh we're gonna have a built prototype within a month we're gonna we're gonna have you don't have it no the you have nothing I have a working prototype that you can today right now theories are great guy theories are great yes yes uh theories are great but um working prototypes are a lot better um this is this what you're seeing here is actually the Mercury that's going to be rotating around so there's a pinch point on one side where it will spin faster than on the other side and what that does is increases the uh the speed of the Mercury rotating around on this side the vector of thrust will be in in this configuration be downward this configuration it will be upward or you know to the right and so on and so forth of course the Mercury is going to be covered in plastic and then uh in order to get spin have rotating rotating um well what's stopping it from counter you mean the entire device torquing yeah you're you have one outside going One Direction one if you turn that it's going to start spinning yes yes exactly we have the same problem that you have we have to build two of these and and have them counter rotating yes we have the exact same problem um and uh yeah basically this in the center here is a motor and then there's plastic then there's a little bit of moon metal that's to uh shape the magnetic fields so that they uh induce any currents in the Mercury and spin it around as fast as possible so this is our upcoming device we already have the Mercury the plastic the iron we have all the materials here um should be should be ready uh probably sometime in October I would expect um and we have a machine shop here that we work on this as well but um the other the other device the other uh um here this paper that I showed you before it basically shows you the the overall concept if you look on the left the you see how the uh the the weight the masses the the centrifugal Mass that's being thrown around is moving in and out and the distance the throw distance these are Big lead balls they don't use magnets lead balls on rollers the distance that it's being thrown out is probably a lot more than 20 millimet it looks like it's more like 3 in or so um and with this device it created uh so much thrust that it was being thrown around in all different directions um until he got it all synced up like you mentioned that you were correct about that with when you only have two uh masses rotating around um the device is not as stable when you have four masses so but the problem the reason why he ended up going with just two masses is his motor which was his limiting factor was not strong enough to rotate four masses and overcome the friction from uh the rollers but essentially all he's doing is rotating masses around so that it rotates faster on one side and slower on the other um in your case your actual moving mass that that creates any thrust is the magnet itself I would suspect if you change the weight the magnet um all things uh you know staying the same assuming that your your uh coefficient of friction against you know the magnet's uh repulsion is able to maintain it and keep the same movement in in in place you would see more thrust um but you probably need a high-speed camera to see actually what it's doing every time you make it change to set a set upol we've already done that with a high speed camera and yes adjusting the weight of the rotor magnets helps determine the thrust um that's what we're doing now actually is we're determining what size magnets we need on the rotor in order to create the thrust that's needed yeah the heavier the rotor magnets are the stronger your thrust will be the longer the uh the magnet able to fly a point to a point if they're too heavy then they they never go back in doesn't push them right so there's a that we have have to find and that's basically what I've been working on that's that's if you were to put um if you were to put like moo metal on the outside of your ring magnets that will force more magnetic field inward so you'd have a stronger push and You' be able to increase the weight of your magnet but then again we're also doing the Hallock array and that puts more magnetic field on one side than the other so we're doing everything we can to increase that magnetic field and that means we can go at a higher RPM and create more torque with a smaller device yeah but you'd want if you could put iron on the outside of the uh Taurus magnets on the outside magnets uh that will force the um the magnetic field on the inside to be a bit stronger and you or perala yeah 809 8020 um I canol all that stuff yeah I just purchased a bunch of it David Chester actually did uh who's here he's a physicist he did some math on this and um came up with the mathematical reason why this will work but it works I know it works well thank you thank you Mark let let me go to hfk really quick hfk go for it sir uh Henry oh you're on mute no I'm not I I've been doing it on from the laptop with a microphone on off so surprisedly that flipped okay so looking at the patent application I see that the U the body that the magnets are all facing north so are you are the rotating magnets are those south facing or North facing and are they free floating so to speak in yes they're in repulsive state neutral the north North are facing each othering okay so you're doing north north um or South South well yeah so but the the secret sauce is it has to be in repulsion and this yes kind of has a has a vague similarity to the Kawai magnetic motor um actually I invented another one called Emily called electromagnetic initialized lateral indiction and the kawhai motor was as one of the samples on mine and I received my patent over the kawhai motor the kaai motor uses repulsion to pull it around to the electromagnet and that has no ability to create torque as soon as you add any kind of torque to it it just stops so I took that and reversed it and used an archimedian spiral in the attractive state so now my force is increasing so now I'm able to C capture that rotational energy put it through a generator and light a light bulb okay and are there any springs on the uh rotating magnets so that when you get to a a certain point you're forcing them to be pulled back in well it's not forcing them it's the opposing magnetic field that slowly pushes the rotor arm back in but it doesn't slam it in so you don't get a counter reactive for you just get a punch in One Direction and that's also why all these other devices where they actually hit something and stay on it all the way around don't work because that force is equal in all directions not has changed this one this one you're smearing the force right when you're doing something to dampen it read the paper I posted on the magnetic two Magnetic Springs that gave me the idea that you are repelling energy and then on my Audi the TT the front is electromagnetic suspensions it reads the road in front of it and adjusts the amount of electricity to the shocks right the retic fluid magnetic field exactly yeah uh the and I don't know if the C effect thing is I've seen this many many times this guy was a nutcase okay he didn't do anything I I've read everything he's done nothing's ever come from it all you have is this weird device that spins around and makes a ball spin around but I've never seen it attached to a generator I've never seen it produce electricity I've never seen it I've never seen Harry I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna just hold you up right there so since you're new you probably don't know but on this forum we try our best to support each other not really attack we'll ask questions and we'll be but but you know we Sorry especially when you're talking about stuff that other people have worked on for decades right and maybe you've like read up on some stuff right we we try to be as inclusive as we can here just head up okay okay all right all right okay I just like results I if you're gonna say something about something show it to me don't show me a magnet model or whatever I want to see a prototype I want to see it move and do something I think Harry Harry we love that attitude and hopefully by October I'll have a prototype for you wonder awesome dude if you need help let me know you know no no I actually ifes we all want to get this thing to space we all want to prove the same thing right I I I have a I have a question Harry and this is less this is less like I don't I don't have anything in mind asking this but um so you have it rotates around and you have the magnets lining it right that go around the lining have you ever have you ever considered uh making those electromagnets so that you could switch them on and off I don't know what that would do but it seems like that might be a next step we did and it it it doesn't really do anything it we've looked at it it's more complicated than so it added complexity but not enough thrust yeah it just there's no Harry here's the reaction matter Harry here's the here's the Mercury that we're going to use for it yeah I have I have like two and a half times this amount but that's what we're going to use found that in Mexico they just found in that Temple that there's thousands of gallons of mercury under it yes that's what I'm trying to explain to you the the best way to build this device is with spinning Mercury Mercury Vortex engine well argue on that you be what it was it what was I'll Tesla you're what's the other one Edison actually Tesla and Edison both came from New Jersey right here where would where would they get th see this is why I feel like the slow kid where would you get thousand this opens up a whole door man you have to make mercury it's not natural so why did these people thousands of years ago or whatever making a huge amount of mercury which is poisonous where would you get it where would you Mercury Vortex engine it came out of a spaceship cuz it crashed yes on on your current device what is the uh how many how much thrust you get out per Jewel of energy 17 Watts produces 710 millons of thrust wow so gang up a few of those and you've got uh a nice chunk of thrust you got it that's exactly what we're doing we're determining how much thrust per level like we'll stack them or you know whatever well you know a fun project if if you could turn out a reasonable number of them even if it's powered from the ground you got a cable going to a you know test frame power up the um the rotors and H and just say hey you know here it is power in levitation out because you've got the thrust up and you know never mind about trying to optimize it so it can fly by itself screw that have a have a big ass power cable to it as a demonstrator it's like okay if this doesn't work why is it working but but what we're finding is that the energy to weight ratio I've run it through some AIS and through some other things it's telling me that I can build it where it creates enough thrust to lift itself off the ground that's my next uh that's what I've been a turbocharge Chevy 350 as you're running a generator no it actually it actually doesn't have to be that big at all the RPM speed is the key 255 RPM is all you need that produces almost a Newton of thrust now we look at the weight of it how light can we make it and that's what I'm working on now I'm looking at gor light I'm looking at other materials that are as light as possible and once I have those numbers of actually what it will weigh and the amount of thrust that I can create I'll have a computer model of if it will be able to lift off ground well and if I if I could offer let me let me offer a suggestion really quick um one way this is kind of a cheat right but one way that you might be able to to do one hell of a demo is if you use um like a lighter than air to offset neutral blancy and and then it should in theory at least at a certain altitude right it'll just hang there and you can use the engine to move it up down left right whatever you want now I was think about that there's that guy on on here that puts those big balloons up all the time and he's always putting them up there and blowing up or whatever I think we might contact him and do just that we want to put one on and turn the thrust in One Direction and have a wind vein hold it in that direction and then watch it does it actually push itself along or do whatever and then release another one with nothing on it and measure the two JP Aerospace yes I think that's it yeah yeah the yeah Airship to orbit giant airships yeah Airship to orbit that the different model of go getting up into space slow yeah he does it for school eggs he sending eggs up there and food and all kinds of stuff so I don't think it would be a problem uh just just one thing real fast um where do you get your magnets from Dexter magnets so um I'm not familiar with Dexter magnets but I know this uh K&J magnetics they built a $100,000 magnet for me that magnet that you see me standing on is 1,000 pounds it cost $100,000 I had to have a $25,000 cage built for it and that's my secret you guys can't see that one yet okay well K&J for the really small ones I don't know how powerful they are but the K&J in they're 54 grade uh so what's that that's 3.9 Tesla at the core so uh at the face they're like uh 4,800 gal somewhere around there they can hold about 80 pounds one inch by one inch by a half an inch uh what about the small ones on the rotor on the outside how how big are those same size same size now I'm having Dexter magnet build one solid array instead of individual little magnets it's just going to be one one and we can just punch them out oh wow do they do you know I I'm my interest in magnets was more about composition right because neodium is what people use now mostly but um I have been reading what Michael Peron knows about this uh iron iron nitride I think I think that's an up there's a new one they found that supposedly has a better yeah outside electronic ring than the neodymium the neodymium has one electron that's missing so that creates the punch supposedly this one has five but I'll have to research it more um but if the it is true then following what's happening with the neodymium it should be an extremely strong magnet um I want to get my hands on some of it it might be interesting to inquire with Dexter and see I i' read an article just a couple of weeks ago about that and weeting with them next week we I just got back from uh Cape canabal meeting with uev and I just got back to Key West back last night I'm a little tired no I'm I'm right there with you the only reason I mention it is um from what I read the the manufacturing for those is very spotty still right it's it's under development and some folks are kind of doing it and other other folks are kind of not and it's Hit or Miss but but it I'm going to wait until it gets a little more traction a little a little more proven before we start looking at any type of initiation into what we're doing is that Dexter magnets in El grve Illinois yes okay yeah they built uh for the past decades they' built many many things for me yeah Harry this is super exciting thank you so much for sharing this for I am a quiet inventor I don't I just invent and do it and then once I have it I put it out there I don't I don't sort of bait people along with it's gonna come it's gonna we're gonna have this we're gonna I like to get it done and then show it to people how dare you not make Vapor Weare well Vapor wear is that what it's called yeah don't yeah vaporware that's where something is promised and that's all whatever it is it's a promise it's Vapors in the Wind that's horrific it's it's a it's a diverse I I would say we we have a pretty diverse we have a very diverse community and and the Apec conference we've we've pulled from I mean for instance you have a lot of theory people right like we pulled from folks who were at the STA conference and uh Glenn Robertson and the spef conference so you have a lot of people who are mostly involved with Theory doing few experiments and then you know we have a lot of experimental Builders right who who are very light on Theory Theory but heavy on experiments and so it's it's kind of a mishmash and and that's one of the reasons that I I try and like Jared mentioned it we try and preach tolerance because we have a lot of people who are just coming at it from different angles and you know it's unfortunately a lot of it's just not always speaking the same language you know agreed agreed and also the problem is translate phenomena you know stuff that you see happening but the bloody thing won't repeat itself because you've got some kind of stupidly subtle conditions going on and sometimes you hit it and sometimes you don't well that was that was a problem I read about that em Drive their whole testing method was suspect they had nothing clear and defined to show any type of thrust without it being some Uranian you know oh it's the power cable or it's this or too many variables nothing just simp Le put it on a torsion balance cover it up so no wind can blow on it put it in a sealed vacuum If It Moves wow you've got something if it doesn't then you have nothing yeah yeah well let me see uh does anybody else have any questions does anyone else have anything they'd like to present again Harry I I'm so appreciative thank you Jeremiah Jeremiah on Jeremiah where's Jeremiah at Jeremiah built one of those J so Jeremiah was talking about guys I invented this in 2001 that's when I came up with the idea Jeremiah was talking about I I did see him post about the jerk reaction and so one of the things that I was interested in was there was a fellow named Jeff ameno he was talking about electrical arcs but um his his idea for the jerk reaction this goes way back when right and he was talking about when you have an electrical Arc that jerk that happens when it is is non-conserved right and which Harry that sounds very similar to what you're describing and so when Jeremiah pasted that in there it would be interesting I don't know if jeremi is still here or not yeah I'm right over here yeah were you talking about the Jeffco thing um i' I've I've been setting these drives they go back quite a number of years um trying to think what the earliest iation of one of these theas okay if you want to go there if you want to go there then yeah that that would be the earliest iteration four five flies yes it works on the same principle iteration I think it was around the 1950s that you you get the first versions of this starting to come out but uh this is a really simple one I mean I I built I built a bunch of different versions of this thing and played around with it and we've had a bunch of people on this pres uh on this conference the AL and propostion Engineering conference that have also built various different iterations of this and with varying degrees of success and forces but pretty much across the board they all work so uh this is a little one that is about as cheap as it can get I mean it uses freaking Amazon magnets which are notoriously bad for Quality um because they're not they're not checked like K&J magnetics or any of the good quality stuff but inside here there's a uh there's a set of four little individual sliding magnets that are inside of tubes and so there's a magnet that can go you to one side of the tube and the other and then the the magnet array that's on the inside of the back steel washers act as the backing plate to force the fields really and concentrate them between the two pole sides of the system and so as this rotates around it'll push those magnets back and forth along the axes now here's the interesting thing about this take it take it right now in hand put a string in it from the top hook up your power to it and hold it up in front of us and turn it on will it pull to one side and stay yeah it does I've got I've actually I've actually got some power here let me see up the good I don't have a string uh string that I can hang it from right now unfortunately that's a rig I have to set up but no I mean take a find a string behind you a wire anything and put it in the center can just hold hold it up in front of you anyways I'm not I'm not really I'm not really here to have to prove it to anybody because I've already done the test and I've already got the videos of it but it works on a pretty simple principle and to kind of explain it if you can see this diagram take a wire behind you man and show it just hold on I'm I'm not gonna go set up a denimal right now on the spot just for you sorry but all right then okay it's great talking with you man I I don't know what you can share it's okay it's okay we're just sharing ideas here I mean that the whole purpose of conference is to share ideas about this that's great but but there's a wires behind you it's so simple you can put two wires on it hold it up right here in front of us turn it on I just saw it running put it on the table let me see what it does not going to get into it with anybody here anyways if if if you just hold on a second I can finish explaining the principle so on on one side of the rotation as the magnet to rotating they are stationary fixed in their position they don't change distance from the center of the Rotor at any point they stay the same exact distance but on one side of the rotation as they're moving around they're wobbling back and forth so they're taking that kind of motion and as you can see there's this zigzag motion on one side and then on the other side there's nothing and so technically there's a tangential relativistic force and people an transformed we end up getting an orthogonal or tangential reaction transformation of the electromagnetic field vectors that are interacting with Stater magnets that are on the two pole pieces on either side and with the rotor magnets that are moving back and forth on the slides and so this is a really pathetically small force that this thing generates it's not like what you have uh on your demos where it just kicks right up and it gets going it's a very very small force on a torsion balance but it still gets going and uh other versions of this have worked better and other versions have uh simply not worked at all this is very RPM specific spefic because it has to do with sorry this is great but I'm not going to believe you until I see a tortion balance or pend I'm not here I mean no offense no offense but I'm not not offending anyone but I mean this not the point ofs and what doesn't work I I I I think I think what one thing that's interesting about Harry's is um it so like with with Jeremiah's device I could hear a lot of clicking and with Harry's I would bet that those magnets really help so you know in terms of centrifugal devices right one this this goes back to like I think my first exposure to this this genre this idea was uh James bootstrap Cox right and the problem that bootstrap had was these things would Shake themselves to bits within minutes he would turn it on and and the mechanical just yeah and and so one of the things that that I like about your design is partly the way that you've designed the magnets and partly because it's using a magnetic field to push it back in instead of using a mechanical Armature I was you know I was just thinking about it I'm like I would bet you that that's a hell of a lot smoother than trying to grab that weight and suck it back in you know yep minimal vibration inherently yeah exactly the reason that we did these different iterations with different axes of orientation checking uh for the effects is we wanted to see if it was a relativistic effect effect on electromagnetic field density effect or a moving magnetic field effect and so you have Epsilon mu that you can modify in the refractive index your two main gauge factors that are easily uh modifiable and then you've got your relativistic forces your lence Transformations that depends on relative velocity of an of an observ like the uh framework for example of that en casement that's the Observer it's a stationary frame uh as is the outside but the rotor on the other hand is a motional part so it has a different relativistic velocity and therefore it has a different relativistic momentum along a certain Vector axis as those parts are moving so I mean if if you're saying that gr doesn't work at all in this context and that's completely outside the ballpark then that's that's fine that's your opinion I'm not saying that gr is complete it certainly is not but uh it even even it's something as simple and incomplete as gr this is already there so it's it's a principle that's been around well so are you saying you're saying that this is supported by relativity then that's yeah it is it actually fits into the framework but you do have you do have to apply some electrodynamics systems and use other Frameworks in the pieces where it's not completely flushed out and folks like David are really the experts on it David Chester is is fully capable of computing those uh yeah I that's I I actually you're kind of blowing my mind just by saying that that kind of opens up a whole this kind of like what Curtis said right it's this is why we're going towards liquid Mercury Mercury Vortex engine kind of stuff because it's a straightforward system there are no parts that are slashing back and forth there is no sudden jerk motion or anything like that it's going to be finally the first test that we have looking purely for the tangential um Force transformation and it'll be a very very smooth operating system virtually silent if uh the VC makes depending on what we use to drive it now out of curiosity jeremi in terms of the Mercury aspect of this just because it's hard to work with and toxic and all that stuff is is there any way to come up with I'm just wondering like some kind of an ionic fluid right or or is that just not very much so very much so I mean you can pass current through it boo Shard has a system that he was using I think gallon ston and uh that's it's it's a much safer replacement to mercury still has the same problems of amalgamation on various Metals so you have to get these really expensive metals and Prime surfaces so that you can pass High current through it but using uh magnetic induction to Simply rotate the system instead of having to pass current through it is a much less uh complicated situation because you can use Plastics now for your enclosure high strength Plastics like G10 or other materials that are tool for the process and can actually take the kind of pressures that are exerted out on the sidewalls as the acceleration deceleration forces from the liquid mercury mass is changing yeah that and that was what I was wondering about and I I'd wondered if you might even be able yeah sorry Drew s go for it I'm just curious okay all this electromagnetic stuff and spinning stuff drives me crazy too but um I hate the mechanical side of it too I I I you know I'm not I'm not to say none of this works but I personally don't think any of it's real um but if it is real are you saying you're okay are you converting the momentum of the electromagnetic field into linear momentum is that what you're effectively doing or I forgot does yours have magnets and or fields in it or is this a purely mechanical thing well okay to answer your question about the Mercury version that we'll be testing out soon it does have magnets in it but the purpose of the magnets there is not to induce um any kind of electrical potentials beyond the point of just simply accelerating the Mercury fluid so the idea is that it's a non-con way to get the Mercury flowing with a reasonably high torque and velocity without having to use electrodes and have any other metallic compounds in contact with Mercury that might cause it to aalum okay so when you get all done you're you're you know you got it spun up and you're in a stasis situation it's a purely mechanical system at that point was what you're saying as this and then then we would like to see if we can adapt to a purely electromagnetic driven system where it uses field coils to produce the same rotating magnetic field and at some point you're inertial propulsion it's it's taking inera it's taking inertia in an asymmetric form and converting it into a a vector of propulsion asymmetric centrifical Force rotary inertia rotational inertia and somehow magic you know love it you're converting rotational energy rotational momentum into linear momentum is that what you're is that you know I mean David do you agree with that if we skip like the three steps that need to be there in between then yes okay yeah however you get the things spun up you got it spun up a rotating device and we are turning that into a linear Force okay now just out of Cousy while you're while you're going this way are you slowing down because you're stealing momentum that would keep it spinning if in a perfect Universe it's all spinny it stays spinning forever all of a sudden you're extracting momentum out of it and you're converting it to forward propulsion so are you slowing the spinny thing down at some point Point you'll be accelerated and the thing will stop spinning because you've used up all the energy hey Drew have you ever put like a fluid through a pipe and then had the pipe change radius so it it's like beri effect so if you have something with a velocity in the area decreases then the velocity increases yeah saw a great example of that the other day logically the fluid will slow down as you get linear thrust that means you still have to pump energy back in to keep the fluid pumpy back in let's say you don't put it back in we just I just want to see where it's going here so you're taking the mechanical energy of the spin and you're converting it to linear propulsion at some point the energy is coming from somewhere are you stealing it from the universe or you stealing it from the spinny thing the spinny thing it has to be from the spinning okay so you have a purely mechanical system that once you spun it up like a battery now you have a like a flywheel you've got energy stored in a spin you've then got some clever way of converting it to purely mechanical thr or purely momentum vectored thrust am I hearing that right so far as you know what I've been able to test friction is so high in these systems I mean we're talking many orders of magnitude higher than the noise floor that I could possibly detect to see whether or not it's actually en from and that's one of the reasons why we want to move to a SM operating system it sounds to me like I forgot the I don't see his picture up there anymore but the guy with the with the with the asymmetrical magne spinny thing har Harry sprain yeah hi hello um dude I'm I'm I'm an aerospace mechanical engineer anything that spins got wires attached to it I was going to say theory of how of how Sid works it's all right there guys but he he did not use the word spinning thing anywhere in it that's okay um so it looks to me like the spinny thing you did dude is is you're putting energy in so that you can maintain the rotation and then continuously extract that rotational momentum into Vector right right that's the idea hon the lateral Force honestly Harry I think what Jeremiah said might be true there's so much friction in the system you can't really know whether the energy you're putting in is to overcome friction or is it actually converting it to linear Force watts and I'm getting out 710 millons yeah I'm gonna take him on I know I know but I know but you might be putting in zero Watts when when friction is accounted for but hold on if you account for friction in your system if you account for all the friction in your system you might be putting in zero watts how much of how you're putting in 17 Watts total how much of that energy is going towards uh friction so are you saying it's over Unity then all that's is the motor I'm just turning the motor there's no other friction nothing touches anything our magnet the magnets slide in and out they have friction oh a very minute amount as they come in and out nothing to disrupt system that counts that's friction so why I think Mark I think what you're insinuating is that that once you take friction into account he might be approaching Unity or over Unity I don't know or over but Drew um is working with asymmetric capacitors looking at forces that may be you know there may be zero uh energy being put into them because he's able to charge up a a capacitor and see it move for hours with no yes you have way to actually measure that but with a with a friction device like what we're dealing with just to keep the motor running takes a certain amount number of Watts Harry you can you can run that test see how many watts then there's the air friction there there's there's a lot of things going in there it might be zero I think that might go to Harry's other device right Harry you said it's been running for mons Emily so yeah I and you running right when you said it's it's running for seven months that means it's powering itself you don't have to provide it with external power anymore is that correct it's all running off the magnetic field right okay that means you're stealing energy from the universe here's a small one you got lost what happened that well you've got lost so that means you're stealing energy from somewhere that's very cool oh yeah mean that means you're actually stealing energy from the whatever the plank scale nonsense that dis look at the video I just posted this is Emily underload it is powering a small light to show that it is underload I used a a axal flux alternator as my generator system the energy going into it I published the paper on it it's a pulse width of about 36 Mill seconds at about 12 volts at about 3 amps and the output power the Newton force is almost 2 Newton me me and 10 radians so my output force is greater than what I'm putting into the electromagnet if you count the pulses but if you just put the actual number 12 volts at 3 amps it's not enough but I found by stacking them and firing electromagnets in sequence within a th milliseconds I can greatly create my torque to have a self- sustaining machine yeah and firing five electromagnets or 10 electromagnets within the same thousand millisecond or 1 second period requires the same amount of energy it doesn't matter that video of em I just watched your video that you posted of Emily and man that is that is a beautifully really powerful build I'm just looking at the amount of fores that are involved there and that's the magnets are horrific man we had to build Contraptions to put them together hundreds of pounds of force that would broke my finger a couple of times yeah we have we have some incredible stuff that I'm slowly bringing forward all my publicity people are working I've got my company form now everything and it's it's all bringing forward this isn't my first invention my first invention is a nontoxic insecticide called EcoSmart I saw dead ants in the Sugar Bowl and it why did they die so I went to the library and researched all about chemicals and how carum carbonates and all these other things and I came up with a powder formula that could kill insects I took it to uh the flea market and started marketing it as Hazard free allnatural Pest Control they at that time I was working for a limo company and the lawyer of the limo company is named Steve B he saw what I was doing and he's like an insecticide what is this blah blah blah blah blah long story short patent search on it no prior art raised some money uh got uh Dr isan enam from uh from Baker Donaldson and a bunch of other people from Caltech and all these working on the anology side of it and we discovered a new compound called hexi hydroxy so we took that and we raised $35 million through Goldman Sachs and Leman brothers and it's Nationwide it's now the number one selling insecticide on Walmart on uh through Walmart it's uh and Amazon it's uh EcoSmart all natural Pest Control um and the guy that I founded it was Steve betet he's now the president of the company um so I made money and I moved on to you know research and development which I love which started the whole magnet motor thing and uh I invented the insecticide in 1997 and uh so that was my I just watched your video and and your spinning thing is is is that just you don't have any batteries hooked to that thing it's just you just feed it back into itself and it stays spinning for six months no no no that is Sid and there's small batteries if you look right before the voltage converter I mean excuse me for the motor controller there's two small batteries tape to the torsion balance no Sid is not self powering there's two different devices Sid is a propulsion system Emily is a powering system okay I'm looking at this live demo I did a live demo at spacecom 2024 one of our team one of my team was actually at that and looking at it yes and he was stunned he was like dude what is this thing and I had no idea what I'd never heard of it so um one of our guys actually no he's talked about the Emily one so so that one so with Emily in that video I think he that's the one he's talking about where you feed look at this emily. MP4 is that this is that the spinning thing that goes forever I'm sorry what oh he's he's asking if Emily is the one that runs continuously yes that's the Emily stands for electromagnetically initialized leral induction engine Emily so basically that thing is going to stay spinning for six months making a little tiny bit of light stealing energy from the universe correct that's freaking that's a unicorn man that's that's what that is the that is the Holy Grail oh but there's a lot of ways of doing it look at these I figured out how to do it many times look at this one you're gonna you're going to like this um it's called Square Emily or super Emily and now I'm building that yeah oh okay I see it Harry do you have a philosopher stone too like that could convert everything into gold I don't know what that is oh he he's he's just joking and this is this is a this is double the torque I forgot how to double the torque on Emily have it one ring on the outside and one ring on the inside one electromagnet firing both Harry I got uh one other question for you if I could uh you you were talking about how um it's going to be a little while before you get up into space you were also talking about a a 10 stack of the spinny things yeah of Emily yeah so anything is an official term now I'm making sure this sticks so if uh if you have this 10 stack of them you said you were making about 700 millons of force so a 10 stack no no no no Emily produces electricity no thrust okay I'm I'm I'm asking is it possible that you could create a five Newton or greater version of thrust of your device yes oh yes we're up into we could possibly produce 50 Newtons but what I my question is geared towards is if you had to if you had to put pedal toel and put 100% of your focus into getting to the five Newton threshold what would the timeline on that look like we're working on it now the reason I ask is because I've heard that some of the big boys really care about like that number minum to get oh yeah yeah that's that's the key you guys have to understand this is where they are this is directly from Mitchell Walker the like head guy NASA he does all the he the hall thrusters and all that stuff man he just got 11 million to try to increase their thrust and he can't do it their Benchmark is 54 millons for a thousand Watts that's the best they can do Harry if I could ask and I I should mention that so we've got about 15 minutes left until we close things down for this session this has been mind-blowing I'm going to have to look at this I Harry I did want to ask I I may get myself in trouble have you you thought about using Emily to power Sid very good absolutely wonderful Tim that is exactly the idea I I I just I I saw I was like wait a minute this one's electricity and actually all in one system picture an Emily that is a Sid [Music] [Laughter] I'm seeing like the infinity symbol in my mind that's exactly isn't in that wild it really is the infinity symbol I'm just seeing the the characters of Ice Age Emily and Sid that oh that's right that little that little bucktooth thing that was chasing the egg corn his name would never made that connection Mark no I was thinking of that movie is a they remember that movie Emily is the elephant there or the The Woolly Mammoth girl and Sid is the sloth there's also a sid in a virtual reality movie where they like download all these Psychopathic Tendencies or something into this guy and he's called Sid CI and it standing for something yeah that that was uh Denzel Washington and yeah I remember that one that's it that's it so Harry I didn't I didn't quite get an answer on that so what's the really rough time frame looking like on when you break the five Newton Mark um we're working on it now that's that's actually one of our goals is to produce about that much because we found from NASA that's their number if you can produce five Newtons of continuous thrust you have done everything they need so you think like a month a year five years if one prod lot in NASA I I I've been down the NASA path it doesn't go anywhere it's a it's a 10year black hole um you're far better off with one of the big uh Aerospace billionaires yeah we we got that we're going directly to Elon Musk and we've got we're talking to what's the lady that she's the vice president of Space X weeks yeah I'm supposed to meet her in a couple of weeks also go rescue those astronauts stuck in the space station that's what I'm trying to do I'm GNA offer them the ability to not just go up there and rescue the asut they'll be able to use sit as a propulsion system inside the ISS to keep it in orbit so now they don't have to come back something on the ISS legally excuse 10 years it takes about 10 years to get something approved absolutely I'm sorry but that is absolutely wrong absolutely wrong I we've already talked to the people that get the permits and all the other stuff it it's not as hard as you think to get a scientific experiment it is exactly as hard as I think okay we have a bunch of NASA on our team well I've got huge money behind me and let me tell you we can move mountains another sorry go ahead man I I was just thinking that the stranded astronauts thing might be a motivational tool for NASA that's the whole point it's not just that it's publicity of it this and that whatever's who's gonna be first blue origin the the only way that you're going to be able to get your device to do that is to get Boeing involved because they're the one are going to save all the egg on their face because what's looking like is going to happen is they're going to come back on a SpaceX capsule we are we are already in the works of speaking with a lot of people about all that I don't I don't handle that side of it I'm the scientist I've got a whole board of directors and let me tell you I got a board of directors another Harry another group that you might consider is all of the satellite manufacturers which expands your customer base so you have Ron and B lock keed right they get a lot of DOD contracts then you also have non us-based customers as well agreed and what we're looking to do is we want to approve the technology and then just license it out and have every have it available to everyone yeah I was thinking afrl afrl is interested in stuff like that yeah and then there's also the defense Innovation unit but I think I Harry I think that you're beyond them already I think they're for earlier stage Ventures MH but yeah well again absolutely amazing um so we have about 10 minutes left guys I should ask does anybody else have anything that we should squeeze into this one I mean again we've had some Qui I can give a quick update on the alapon setup yeah oh you're the guy you're the guy with the lab I saw you I know who you are now yeah has an amazing lab I do a lot more than just rotating Mercury and magnets this is dynamic poiz yeah that was cool yeah this is not power we're trying to make matter weightless over here in this machine and um basically it's being tested in a vacuum at the with a magnetic field RF coming in from the side and we're using the combination of the magnetic field and the RF to orient subatomic particle spins make matter weightless through nuclear spin orientation um so this is our new setup I picked up from Hathaway and um while setting it up originally uh the glass tube uh where the sample supposed to hold sit uh broke and uh turns out that the size uh of glass tube that we need is not manufactured in the US um it's made in Europe and all and the company does not ship to the us but we found some company that sells ants that had it and they were willing to send it to us so we got it in uh just the other day and uh we're at 7.4 to the -6 tour right now but one thing I found that's kind of interesting Drew I want you to have a look at this I'm getting a funny signal this is uh from a um a for sensor inside here and it is uh in correlation with the um the RPM of the turbo I got another um pair of probes set up over here um that took that's the uh the pink signal over there as well so basically we're getting an RF ping that's coming off the turbo that's ending up inside of my signal and it's also bouncing around inside all the ground so that's something we gota figure out that's one of the next things that we'll be working on um and I already showed you guys the um the Mercury Vortex engine thingy that we're going to be working on in the near future great having Harry on that that uh fit in well we also got a new microscope and I been steering at the Arts Parts UFO piece um I had it hooked up here um all week and we're just steering at it this is a metallurgical microscope so it has a light coming in through the objective right uh which is pretty cool and it's good for looking at opaque things like uh the art part sample which is uh a piece of the one of those UFO crashes yeah cool very cool yeah well so Mark do you have any photos from that speaking of Wich I would photos I I have them on this laptop over here I need to figure out how to transfer them over um also I didn't get as much time as I would like there's this this microscope has so many different uh filters it has like six different filter combinations separate filters that you can then combine with different setups I should send you a sliver of my necklace it's from a meteorite the one that crashed in um s Siberia and let you look at it and see what it looks like I should slice a piece off the back I you know what oh yeah sure that would be cool you know Mark actually I was also thinking um remember earlier we were talking about looking at Drews and Drew you were saying you probably wouldn't be able to see anything with the anomalous Thruster what if you had that under the metallurgical microscope maybe you could identify something that way no I mean it's good idea but no i' I've got access to a a scan electron microscope too but the the stuff that makes our stuff work is is macro it's it's not down on the atomic level but um well this is not on the atomic level this is macro Sal um one more thing that we got that was working over these past few weeks is H asymmetric Casmir cavities um it's basically a Casmir cavity that has a I'm G have to show you this with my hand let's say it was sort of like a um uh a ramping uh shape like that would repeat itself over and over again let see if I can show this up to you basically the if you were looking at it Edge on it would look kind of like this it would slope down and then and move along and the metallic surface was only over here the vertical part wasn't uh Metalized and when you put the two plates together it would create a vector uh moving in some some direction um the the guy who was uh who came up with this idea Robert toas asked him to come on tonight he couldn't make it but um he lives locally and he came to the lab to have us uh to help him manufacture it because you need to have a way to only metalize half of the um uh half of the ramping surface of the um uh C cavity uh it was like one in square um the ramping surface that I'm talking about is microns it's extremely small um what he actually used was a Fel lens that's yeah because I remember you talking about those earlier in the week yeah yeah sry was talking about that convert yeah there's a whole there's a that's the whole bug wi thing with a bug Wings convert microwave aves into propulsion it's that's that is one deep Rabbit Hole brother waves that's that's a that's a rabbit hole that laugh all you want that's real stupid idea is real hey just funny imagine going to an investor and sitting down hey all right I want to talk to you about a $5 million investment bug waves yeah yeah yeah you'd be amazed with what you can do with that um Let me throw something up on the screen quick Mark I want to show you something that I I've known about for a long time but it's first time I have actually run a test um can y'all see the graph that's on the screen yep okay um basically this what we have here is um there's no thrust being produced this is just the uh ion gauge the the vacuum measurement system um this is off and then as soon as I switch the ion gauge on it charges the entire chamber with ions and that's really not important except that that stupid little piece of capton that I'm using as a force meter is susceptible to those ions and Dr Charles figured this out a couple of years ago in NASA that the ion gauge itself is able to dump charge into the system so you actually have energy being put into the vacuum of course you know vacuum's got is really just thin air um so basically this is the the ion gauge dumping ions into the vacuum and then ion gauges when they get dirty you run them you do something called a um uh de gas and that just supercharges the damn thing and it runs super hard for about three minutes or five minutes and that dumps an enormous amount of ions into into the chamber and then it switches off and it comes back up and then I went ahead and Switched Off the whole ion gauge and everything so that it just kind of did this and then it did this the net result of all this is you be very careful with Force measurement if you're using a mechanical force indication system that relies on uh a strain sensor attached to a piece of capton which is how 100% of all the force meters in the universe operate so um thought I'd show you this because it's a source of error if you don't know what you're looking if you don't understand it if you get the if you get your Ion gauge to stasis and you run from here forever things are good but if you just switch on your Ion gauge or you punch up a d gas you can you can get all kinds of false thrust I mean this is a a millon this is a millin of false thrust which is literally nothing but a bunch of ions dumped into the system so I thought I'd show you that because that's another source of ways the universe can lie to you that you just don't expect well Drew thank you thank you and so guys it is it it's just about 8 o'clock so um you know I I want to say good night and thank you to everyone for a pretty amazingly successful ape Open Mic so I am going to stop recording