Chatting with Chris (@AeroTech_Space) on UAP/UFOs, Eliziondo, AATIP, New Jersey drones, AARO & more.

Transcript

Chris you're actually a Air Force veteran is that correct yes sir yeah um Air Force veteran uh and I guess you'll be the first one to kind of know uh but I'm currently uh I do work uh for the Department of pence in that realm as an intelligence analyst so oh wow yeah you'll be the first one to know that uh so U but yeah that's what I currently do right now and um tell us a little bit about that background sort of ties into your interest in UAP so uh the intelligence part of it doesn't really uh just I just kind of know how to you know use open source information and just gather the information myself and just make an assessment on it uh that's kind of what I've just always done with the subject in general um you know uh but as far as the Air Force and my military background uh I think the biggest aspect for me in this community is being able to um I guess vet information that comes from either veterans or DOD intelligence Personnel like we've been seeing lately um and have a better understanding of what they're talking about versus probably you know the the average civilian that doesn't have that background and outside of the the realm of Google Search right um so that that kind of plays the part of it um but just I don't I don't use anything that I do for you know for work or my profession none of that all this is separate um just to be clear about that um but yeah that's kind of what I bring uh just just the that knowledge uh because uh everybody all the things have come out since 2017 it seems to be a big focus on uh the people coming out all have military or intelligence or some kind of Department of Defense background um so that's where I can kind of just chime in from time time to time and help out with that so when you say um you can bring that knowledge do you mean sort of the way that they talk about like for example a whistleblower would talk about logistics or something you can sort of check or from your own experience you would know like this this or that is credible and that's not that sort of thing right yeah so you know when they come out and they say they go through a certain process or they there's uh you know when when the 2017 videos came out and there's a classification process behind that I know a little bit about that um so and then like in the ter you know with whistleblowers uh you let's just say specifically Jason Sans uh the stuff that he came out and he was saying um I was able to easily uh you know vet some of that information and then also uh it raised a lot of red flags about what he was saying versus what you can disclose when you are supposedly in positions that he is in especially claiming that you were part of special access programs well there's certain details obviously that you're not going to be able to disclose and he was going into X spaces and just spilling all the beans right so and that was a that was another another issue and that's kind of again that's what I would bring is just kind of my knowledge into that those processes and just for um Clarity if you can tell us are you in the Air Force office of special investigations or some other unit um I don't want to get into specific details but no I'm not with OSI um that's that's a different faction I'm just I'm an intelligence an analyst um but because of issues with doxing and stuff in the past uh I I'd rather not give uh where I work and the location um but uh this you know this was surprise for now I actually uh I went through my security officer to make sure that I can at least say that during the interview talk a little bit about alzando so what are like the top two or three sort of claims that he makes that put him into a very questionable um uh you know that make you question what he's saying so I guess the first would be uh the biggest one where he said he was the director U of A you know a government program uh into investigating UAP uh which was called atip so there's been a lot of back and forth but there's been quite a bit of foia documentation to uh give kind of a a better um look into the background of those claims and a lot of that's come from um John Greenwald The Black Vault and I recently just went through there um just as I figured we were talk about that today and uh it's pretty apparent that you know he's starting to walk back those claims of being the director of that program especially uh recently with Jay Stratton I think it was either this week or or last week um he he said that he was the one that um that started atip and I believe 2015 is what he said well that contradicts everything that Lou alzando has said about the program being it started in 2008 and and there's been discrepancies about that uh if it was 2007 2008 and if he really meant assap which you know a tip was actually a derivative from alsap um but then it seems like there's two versions of atip there is the one that's confirmed by the dod and then there's the one that um Lou alandro claims he ran which was pretty much an unofficial hobbyist style um uh program if you want to call it that from his off official position uh in the Pentagon at the time and it seems like he was from the information U from you The Black Vault it it seems uh he was running emails and and information through through his official email at work but it was an unofficial uh T you know it wasn't even a tasking uh that alzando was running and it seems like he adopted the the name of a tip from alsap which was terminated in 2012 uh and then uh he just ran with it in unofficial capacity um and that's you know that came out in 2017 the New York Times article which was now we know is riddled with you know uh kind of misinformation if you will there's a lot of information there it's not correct um that's been corrected over the course of time so that was probably one of the biggest ones for me is if you if you are the director of a program you know you wouldn't be walking back those claims especially in your book which has come out recently as well um another big one with me uh and and this is this might be controversial to some people but as a veteran it's a big deal there was a interview that Tom Delong did uh years ago um and Tom Delong tells a story that Lou alzando told him about his time where he was over in somewhere in Iraq right after 9/11 happened and that General Mattis saved him while he was uh while he was in a firefight with I believe uh the Taliban or Al-Qaeda whichever one um and said that General Mattis rode in on a tank and started just blasting everybody and saved his life well for people like me that's been in the military and have read up a little bit about General Mattis that's not correct and I had been I'd been blowing that whistle for quite a while posting that video Asking for Tom or Lou to comment on that video and they never did did uh because that just wouldn't happen you you know the theater command uh you know uh Commander would not be going into uh and a special place like that where there's hostile fire situation and saving just one person it just wouldn't be happening he said he didn't in a T-shirt and with a grenade launcher and all kinds of stuff well in L fast forward to Lando's book he took himself out of that equation and tells the same story and then says that General Mattis saved other people not him so it's that's always been a big thing with me because to me that sounds like and we see this all the time in the veteran Community just in the military community in general are people that exaggerate their claims in uh their exaggerate their service uh to try to get you know popularity or credibility or things of that nature and that's always been uh kind of an issue with me uh so that was another big Claim by him that um that nobody's ever commented on but it's just convenient that after the time like over a year that I posted that video over and over asking for clarification um the story changes in his book when it matters so that's another big one for me oh so is that what you think is the motivation for him making these stories is it just to get agulation or respect or something oh I have those problems too trust me you'll probably hear a cat meow here in a minute um so it's really hard to tell cuz uh out of everybody that's been involved in say the a tip alap and uaf other than maybe Travis Taylor a lot of people have been very quiet on the subject um Lou alzando is the only one that really sticks out that he's very vocal and I think him being vocal uh has gone against their a a seemingly plan in the Inner Circle you know the that you know step Green Street has pointed out and also Dr kpatrick has pointed out of these of these activists it seems like alzando comes out and he speaks a lot more and it kind of It kind of kicks himself in the rear end for doing it uh because you know uh Stratton and all them uh it seems like they all had like a timeline built but unfortunately alzando speaking like he does uh has gone against that timeline and they've had to walk back statements I I think it he he likes the spotlight unlike the others like Jay Stratton and others involved with a let's say U APF or or ASAP ATP all that alzando has always been the face as far as I know since 2017 and that's because he that he wants that Spotlight he's always wanted that Spotlight um there's people in the community have done a deep dive on his background all the way you know before he got into the military and elzando is the type that he might be that guy that exaggerates service and claims just so he can bolster his personality and his credibility and I think that works against him in the long run and we've seen that pan out here lately so why do you think that the media has been so lacking in discernment when it comes to alesander because he seems to get interviews everywhere right and he's sort of seen as the go-to guy when it comes to UAP issues and the government right I think a lot of it has to do that it just seems like people don't pay attention to the subject and and deep dive into his years years of claims like say someone like Green Street or green wal or MC West all them guys they do that right they've been in the community so long they can pull up hey I remember when you said this it doesn't match what you just said uh a lot of news media today especially is kind of like that copypaste journalism where if one story is being reported they just take the story and they just regurgitate it over and over um and that seems to be what happens like you know alzando he for intent and purposes he is the face of UFOs as far as everybody knows it since 2017 since New York Times article came out you know that's a big backing right so it's not it's it's not a stretch of the imagination that that's where everybody goes to um he's just got he's got you know he's gotten in good with the people that he needs to that when these issues come up or they're in the news or even the Drone flap uh they're going to go to elzando because supposedly elzando is the expert on all this right right and um well you mentioned the Drone flap we'll get on to that in just a second but um are there any supposed whistleblowers apart from alzando who you think might have even a modicum of credibility it's really hard to say uh anymore just to be honest it seems like the people that come out and claim their whistleblowers which we don't have very many right we don't there's not they've all been held back and they're Anonymous um from David grush uh some people will always say David grush um his background you know and and what he's been portrayed as uh for people like me I I did a deep dive into his background and especially his resume um and it just coming from a a federal government position and Military I see that resume and I immediately see that's written like a federal resume where you don't really you don't lie in your resume you just exaggerate or you know your duties right that are associated with with each position you're in and you make your resume sound as good as you possibly can and his has been that and I've gone through that multiple times um but grush you know seems to have some backing from you know figures uh that people deem as being credible right so the the first uh I can't remember his name but the first uh um Inspector General for the intelligence Community he was he backed brush now he was I think he was part of Compass Rose which was the initial um the initial uh office that represented David gush's Inspector General icig complaint about reprisals and then it seems like he is no longer with that company and he went over to SE with David grush and now neither one of them seem to be on Soul's website anymore uh so I don't know what happened there but as far as I go I I just don't see anybody being in credible um as far as what they're whistleblowing about that gets into my theory of what this leads to people want to talk about credibility what's happening is are these people are and when I say people the inner the inner circle of these of these activists they're they're targeting um resumés instead of evidence to back claims right somebody's credibility in what they do for a living or their their professional history especially in the dod Military Intelligence Community that's what they're using to base credibility on not so much the evidence to back the claims that they have that's what we've been seeing and that's what I've been trying to point out um so when it comes to that uh that's that's been I think the biggest issue is people have been taught hey this guy this guy served you know in the intelligence Community work for the NGA nro they start throwing acronyms out there that most people don't know what these intelligence agencies do and then all of a sudden hey they're credible these guys they got to be CR they're in the know they have to know what they're talking about so what they're saying has to be true that's not the case especially for me from what I've seen my personal experience I a lot of people believe in UFOs that doesn't mean just because they're a colonel in the military that their experience means it's automatically credible because they're a colonel right because of their resume it should be about the evidence they that they bring forward to back their claims and we don't get that right right so what do you think is happening then if this is not people just lying assuming that the the so-called whistleblowers are not lying um is it maybe something along the lines of uh they they think something's going on because like there's some secret Aerospace project and then they misreport that or they think you know aliens are being hidden and then it sort of turns into like this positive feedback cycle type thing do you think that's plausible so yeah I think it's a mixed bag honestly uh you you got what you stated there where um there are people that believe that that there is a legitimate uh government cover up of re you know space alien craft and bodies associated with that's been covered up for 70 80 years and then you know they're inside the government uh and they believe these things uh and they will believe that there's a cover up ironically while working for the government U but then you have people that also that lie about it that I pointed out is my belief that Jason Sans has done recently uh you know the who was the the product of uh James Fox's last documentary the program uh and I had a held that space where turns out Jason sanss is most likely lying about a good portion of the things he claims now on the other hand his claim can his claim to Arrow U that he that he was a witness of can be found in the in the historical report right so there was that claim and it actually was legitimate in the fact that what he heard was a thing during his service but most likely what they what they described it as was what he heard he thought he heard was not really what it was you know code names and stuff like that are used by programs to throw off you know uh any kind of uh Intel that could leak out so he heard that he ran with it thought that he heard something that wasn't and that might that might be what's going on too that people you know they think there's something going on they might hear something or they see something a name of a program and they think oh well this is this is UFO related when they don't have access to it um and and then so they run with it they run with those claims uh but then you got people just outright lie you know there's people that misidentify things on you know just int not intentionally they might have an experience you know and it they just could they misidentify something and then next thing you know they have a UFO coim I mean it's a mixed bag really it's not just a one- siiz fits-all answer uh and and I believe that's what's going on and um so what do you think about the New Jersey if you could just give us like a broad brush picture of what you think New Jersey um flap is about so yeah so you know just watching that whole thing unfold a lot of that is just hysteria that that happened online um on the platform X which is a free speech platform now uh not really complain about that but unfortunately what comes with that is a ton of misinformation and a ton of conspiracy theories uh from my breakdown for what I've seen a lot of this started because you know the Langley Air Force Base uh drone incursion in 2022 or yeah or December 2023 it was talked about in Congress that Drew some eyes on the on the issue and then we had uh the lake and Heath drone incursions that started going all around people were uploading videos saying what's this in the sky and you know this that and the other of course UFO Believers and activists got in on it tried to say that they weren't drones it's something else at the same time that was going on per the war zone um which is with Kyler rway uh there was also uh an incursion and it was that um I think it's called P or something like that uh in New Jersey and they had a drone incursion as well uh pitini I'm sorry Arsenal in northern New Jersey they had just two days before Lake and E they had a small drone incursion go over there well videos start popping up people either were posting videos of what they thought were drones um there were also videos that were faked um that we know uh were saying were drones and in uh news news reports uh news agencies local news agencies especially were literally caught posting videos of commercial airliners saying those were drones so when you have that kind of uh those kind of videos and everything going viral and a ton of misinformation it led to a hysteria online all these social media influencers that have millions of followers were reposting these things and not vetting them properly that led to a huge hysteria on top of the fact that that there were probably some people which is I mean it's you can go and buy a drone anywhere you go to Best Buy and buy all kinds of drones off the shelf there were probably people that were flying some hobbyist drones while that was going on saying you know trying to get videos that was seen too um but overall it was it was a a bunch of Hysteria there were people claiming that there were uh What uh small car siiz drones some said bus-sized drones there we never saw any videos of that it was all just specul a right there were there actually are no videos of that that could really be found online from what I've seen you have that but then you had the mixture of the actual incursions that were occurring uh case in point over in vandenbberg space Force Base while the Jersey drone thing was going on there was an actual incident at at vanderberg space Force Base where they arrested a Chinese National who was flying a drone over that base recorded images and video of the layout of the base and and other things and when they found the information uh they actually caught him trying to board uh a flight to China right and they arrested him and that was per the Department of Justice so there were there were there are actual incursions that are happening they could be either you know spy Espionage or they could be at you know they could just be hobbyist flying over even though they're they're not supposed to be those things are going on you know it's been reported orted that there's I believe over what is it 600 there's been 600 drone incursions over uh bases uh since I think 2022 uh per the the war zone so uh there that is happening but specifically New Jersey was a lot of Hysteria a lot of misinformation online especially on X you mentioned the Chinese guy who was arrested so this has been in the news as well a political some political debate about this in Congress about um whether China should be allowed to buy land in America like you know Chinese companies um and we know that China does a lot of Espionage in America uh spying like a cyber spying and things like that um do you think that there should be restrictions on Chinese uh companies buying land if they're I mean presumably they can just buy offthe shelf drone and they might maybe locate their Enterprises or their land kind of get it as near as possible to sensitive American sites do you think that more attention should be paid on that I mean it wouldn't hurt right especially you know even at the Langley uh the Langley incursions there was a uh University of Minnesota college student that was I think he got six months prison time uh he too was caught flying a drone over a sensitive Naval uh complex over there uh near Langley uh so we do know uh that there there is a Chinese presence as far as Espionage goes uh and there is uh enough evidence to suggest that there there there are Chinese um individuals or I don't know how you would you would uh call them interprises companies whatever that is buying up land near basis uh that would make it accessible for you to fly drone and do any kind of intelligence surveillance or reconnaissance in that area over those bases even even if it looks like it's nothing you know nefarious right just intelligence gathering either way with the tensions Rising uh it should be paid attention to um do I know you know this is this is separate from what I do do I think that they there should be restrictions on it it just depends it depends on probably lot of things I don't know if they can vet those type of of sales before they do it um but it there needs to be red flags drawn and I think there has been uh because the tensions are rising and there is a growing there is growing evidence that it seems like especially with reported police stations also in the country Chinese police stations that there's a potential for an infiltration to gather intelligence uh on our bases uh that could cause a problem in the future now but do you think that the sort of the hysteria like around the New Jersey drone um was that in a big way facilitated by the fact that UFOs are being talked about in Congress now in a more kind of deferential manner or do you think that this sort of Hysteria would happen on its own accord given like social media and just like people not being very Discerning so I think it would have come up regardless because there's because it's happening so often like I said 600 incursions uh since 2022 so if that's the case I think it would it would been brought up regardless because it these are you know Langley uh is very sensitive uh base right and so is uh venburg which we know is uh tied to SpaceX so those things would have rais Flags in themselves especially because they're both associated with you know Chinese ESP Espionage but but then you have the UFO activists that come in who have you know some of them have a major you know following and have you know uh certain ties to political figures and stuff like that when they get in and they start influencing and they push their agenda of well some of these things they're they're they've got uh capabilities that are not prosaic they're not they can't be man-made blah blah blah and they're pushing that noise in there you know that's going to that's definitely going to m the waters as well uh so you're seeing that you're seeing people like colart who constantly during the Drone thing was posting uh you know post of others and he would always put in quotation marks drones he there was probably three at least three maybe four posts he did that on where he didn't V them and he had to delete those posts because it was either starlink uh which the you know starlink satellites one was a radio uh antenna that that people were saying was off in the mountain and had lights it was a UFO and he even posted that as well he and he deleted that once it was pointed out that wasn't the case um so you have those people who have ties to political figures who are put in their ears and that's kind of a problem right as there could be infiltration issues in the country as far as drones you know we don't need unrealistic players with kind of like a propaganda or push an agenda in the ears of of Congress uh that that are writing policies you know the there are real threats that we're we're about to face especially with a new Administration coming in I imagine things are getting get a little more uh tense uh at least at first and I just don't think uaps are top of the list and I think the Department of Defense they feel the same way um but the Congressional hearings and things of that nature have definitely drawn more eyes to think that hey there's more to this than just drones and that's what we're seeing um so what is your own view on UFOs actually like I guess you wouldn't discard the possibility that there could be ETS coming here but it's not necessarily like you don't think that those are that's the best explanation right so I have a personal view I you know a lot of people don't ever hear it but yeah I had two experiences myself that one I think I explained that happened when I was a teenager I think I I figured it out by now but there was multiple people uh in my school uh it was after class that we we saw something that we could not explain to the point that startled all of us that we all went home some of us had parents come pick us up we couldn't figure out what it was uh but we saw it and it was close so do I think the potential for life outside this planet exists I think it's not not only you know I I think it's probable it's statistically probable do I think that they're coming through and just stopping in at our bases just to kind of observe and you know you know they're only you know they're coming here and they're we're shooting them down and we got their bodies hidden somewhere and these people say they know all this information no I think uh most of them they either really believe in this thing and they kind of lar that they're insiders and they have all this Insider information uh to try to you know persuade the public that they are more than what they are um but then I you know I I do think that some people truly believe it um and they're just trying to find answers uh either way uh I don't think the people that want disclosure I don't think they're going to get it from the government because I don't think the government has anything to do with it if there was a major Discovery I think they would trust in us enough to say look we found this thing and we want to break this news we want to get it to the people I just don't think there's a cover up and that's my biggest especially the people that lar as insiders and they say Anonymous sources I think it's all just a charade it's just a popularity thing well th those people who like you try to explain things to them uh why you don't think certain uh whistleblowers are credible Etc but you always hear like excuses or evasions um what are some of the more typical excuses that you hear well I can't talk about because it's classified um or you know I have a clearance uh so you know I I can't I can't say this I can't say that uh you know th those seem to be the biggest thing that was full display uh during uh Rush's Congressional testimony right all the tough questions seem to be I can't talk about this in this setting you know oh and and don't get me wrong protecting National Security we need that right we we definitely need that um but it seems to be a trend that all of these so-called insiders or even whistleblowers at least the ones that we know of uh all have this information yet they gatekeep it they don't they don't bring it out well it leads one to believe that it's either something that's coached uh telling them that don't bring the information out and then they start doing podcasts you know they hide behind I can't talk about that because of my clearance or you know cuz it's classified but they go they go on these podcasts they go you know they write books they do all of these things they go on the news they do news segments like it's just a boost in popularity um but I think I think some of it also has to do with funding I think that there these same group of core people are trying to get funding to start another assap atip which atip was just a nickname for allet but I think that's what's going on and uh we can dive into it if you want but I really think Americans against safe Aerospace or Americans for safe Aerospace I really think that that's just a trojan horse for those same Core group of people trying to get Insider information on UFO reports and that's if you look at the board and I posted this you know a few minutes before we came on it has all the same characters on that board including Jay Stratton Christopher melon all of those same people are on there and I think that there's a push for another all sap style uh program potentially to backd Door Arrow because none of them trust Arrow right right this this um sort of Trojan Horse a tip you speak of um the people in it they're motivated by I guess they're True Believers right and would you say that they're motivated more by a commitment to the ET hypothesis or like interdimensional or some paranormal type thing because there was a lot of that in in um in ATP wasn't there ASAP yes there was yeah so uh ASAP had you know they had their security out there um on Skinwalker wrench doing you know paranormal investigations and um and doing like telepathy and stuff like that those type of tests um and and one one person that has brought that to light was Chris Bartel because he was working for uh bass during that time um but there was also an interest in UFOs and uh I really think that that's what happened they were trying to push for a UFO program and uh they they wanted special Access program uh uh I guess uh labels and uh accesses and uh they they couldn't get it it was shut down and I think that they just continued on that's what L Alando end up running but uh UF was in there they did their job that was an actual DOD program uh we know that that's that that's true because they just received a um an intelligence award so they did do some work in the time that they were in um but yeah I really do think uh that that's what's going on is is you got people that were involved in those type of programs in the past they're trying to get back in and gain access again so what do you think is the most fruitful way to study UAP if you if you could set up your own research program or you know dedicated unit what would it do how would it approach this problem well a lot of people don't like this probably won't like this explanation but you have to run it kind of like how Arrow does uh Arrow's got individuals um from all backgrounds uh and he wanted basically approach it from a scientific perspective that's why you saw Dr Sean Kirkpatrick who was also you know he's not only did he work in intelligence but he was a scientist right he he has that background he's worked with different intelligence agencies on different projects uh especially on the science back back end of it so you know you want those type of people even like the current director um that have the science background um but also can work with the classification processes um you know and the material and have they have that access to that style of information despite what people claim uh they've had that access so you want to get people from different aspects like they have done bring them in and have them analyze these reports um but apparently these reports have really started to jump off they there there are quite a few reports that come in u based on Arrow's latest figures um so obviously you're never going to be manned to get through all of them and of course you're you're going to meet criticism through that but I think the way that they're trying to approach it that Dr Kirkpatrick has set up initially was the way that you could do it right just bring in people from different backgrounds who can contribute to different parts of analysis of said incidents and then try to make a determination from there getting back to alesandro's book though um I think he mentions in it that there was some resistance to investigating UFOs because of a religious uh sort of a conservative Evangelical or you know Christian uh resistance to UFOs because they was seen as demonic um which I know is a belief among some Christians but do you think that's a plausible reason why people within the dod would not be interested in UFOs well so there is an aspect of um of religion or God that would play into it right I mean we've heard uh representative burlson uh talk about angels and demons when he came into the UAP topic um so you're going to have people from certain sty and backgrounds uh you know especially in the South where religion is huge uh Christianity you're going to have people that have their determination of what a UAP or what alien life would be um there's there's a guy named Chris bledo that puts out a lot of stuff uh I'm very skeptical of but you know his big claim to it is it's it's like Angelic Angels demons type type of uh activity instead of so much aliens so there are people that are going to have that belief do I think that that's a cause for why you know he received the push back I don't think so uh the Department of Defense came out and stated uh in replies in foas that it just it just didn't it wasn't a priority for them to me it sounded like they didn't see enough evidence to suggest that it was something that was you know anything more than prosaic just stuff in the sky that you know might look might look anomalous at first but that's just the appearance of them either on images or video without further investigation into it might be a lack of data right uh the low information zone or or Liz like mcwest talks about so I don't think it was so much a push back on that while I do I do think people hold those beliefs I don't think that that's that's a a hurdle that he encountered so much so as you know just people weren't that wasn't a priority on the in the department Department of offense now do you think that the on Capitol Hill the UFO push is more of a democratic thing or a republican thing or is it a mix on average so I think it's a mix but there's one thing I'm starting to notice and it I I don't like it at all uh at least from my standpoint you know I was born and raised in Tennessee it's where I live currently um and by Nature I've always had consern a values right I think that you're starting to see like Tim burchett's conservative I think Burleson conservative but I also see other people on the other side of as well it's mixed but I'm seeing a rise in conspiracy theories on the conservative side mainly especially the the extreme conservatives um in that movement uh conspiracy theories are what's in right now that's what sells that's why you see a lot of misinformation online because that's what people engage with and that stuff goes viral real quick um and on the conservative side especially they don't right now there's no trust in the government so you're seeing that bleed into UFOs as well because the main push about the UFO narrative is hey the government's been covering up you know uh evidence of aliens in in in space and wreck craft since the 40s and so that feeds into the whole conspiracy theory narrative and that's why you're starting to see people kind of dive into it right you seen like sea Ryan had you know Dr Stephen Greer on there right uh people are diving into that because that's what that's popular right now so that's kind of my take on it but I do think as far as Congress goes it seems like it's a mixed bag um yeah I would tend to agree with that um now you said that if the government did have in in its possession like a UFO they would tell us but um isn't there an argument to be made that because of the propulsion system to like to get to earth it would be of such a sort of exotic nature that they would know that Russia and China would be very what worried about American possession of that technology because you know we could repurpose that for weapons Delivery Systems and such do you think that that would sort of um put a block on revealing that to the public so that's been the main argument for you know decades now is you know we're reverse engineering alien technology um you know for our our personal gain the problem I have with that is is if that's what we're doing and we know the military-industrial complex like it is a very big business um and they are constantly evolving and advancing Tech uh for use um by the dod uh I would assume that the conflicts that we've been in in all these decades you know we would have seen reminiscent uh uh this technology in some of these conflicts and to me I don't see anything uh in any of the wars or conflicts that uh that have happened or currently are happening uh to suggest that we have that kind of Technology uh right so and if that was the case you know recently it's been put out there that you know China has advanced their Tech and you know has come close to be a a near Pier uh for us as far as technology goes if that's the case then then China would have had the same access or they would how would they have caught up so quickly there's just nothing to suggest in my eyes that we have that kind of Technology if we did why would we not use them immediately and say you the ukine Russian war right that thing it's been going on what three years now and the Really uh what we've seen more of is just drone uh the the use of drone technology in the battlefield the battle space uh more than we ever have so if if we had the technology where's it at why have we not used it why would we what are we saving it for if we had it a lot of that stuff just doesn't make sense to me but it is probably the number one uh notion that pushes this UFO uh conspiracy with the government for the you know since the 40s um sorry my other question actually was tying into China and Russia so do you see any um kind of sincere interest by them in UAP or do you think they would just be tempted to use the topic to sort of uh muddy the waters America to be honest it could be seen as an advantage to them as much the more that we draw a focus on UAP in America meanwhile China has just been advancing their Tech and they've not been claiming any kind of UAP technology you know apparently it's only ever happened in in the US right we've only we're the ones that have only happened have cra retrieval programs and gotten it now there's speculation and stuff that you know activists have put out there saying that other countries have had you know crashes too and they could be the ones to to beat us to disclosure which also kind of sounds like the space race all over again right you know the first one to to get to the moon or the first one to reveal who has uh the technology from outside of this world to me it I think the United States could use and maybe that's what they're doing the government's using all of this muddied propaganda with the UAP hearings and everything as a cover for what we're trying to do and it draws the attention off of our actual technology uh and but at the same time I think China is kind of sitting back thinking hey while they're chasing their tails looking for aliens we've got real real you know advancements going on over here over the past decade or so and they're catching up to us and I think that's what's happening mhm do you think that uh UFOs the way that the whistleblowers the so-called whistleblowers are talking about UFOs like in the hearings and so on um the tropes that they bring forward they seem to be sort of just recycled a boilerplate items right um is there anything genuinely novel that you've seen come out of them honestly no my biggest thing has been the lack of evidence uh and a lot of people uh go with the notion well you know David brush and these whistleblowers have given you know evidence uh in a classified setting well if you read the historical report from Arrow that hasn't been the case there there there still is nothing to suggest that anything is is not from this planet uh it's all been prosaic misidentifications or just you know uh misinterpreting what they've heard as far as what a special access program is titled and what could be in it um so uh I to me it's just I think that as far as the you know UFOs go uh it's just you know they're using it as kind of a crutch I guess um and it's just the it's there's been no true evidence of anything you might you may make the argument of the gimbal video uh people still debate the gimbal video to me I think think uh Mick West uh has done a good job and even NASA confirmed like you know with the goast video it's a balloon give that one up even though Ryan Graves doesn't want to you know the Fleer video it's the camera going in and out the sensor trying to to lock in and it escaped the sensor when it tried to zoom in too far and it looked like it zipped off but that's really what it it lost lock when it zoomed in too far and it looked like it you know darted off I have never seen anything that I've just sat there and like all right well that can't be explained especially on Jeremy corell's you know weaponized podcast drops which that's a whole different story you know I there's a there's a story there that I think will eventually come out about how he's accessing those videos uh but still nothing I've seen from those would suggest anything from outside of this world so I just don't think there's anything out there to suggest that there's actual nonhuman intelligence uh that are flying any craft right right um do you think that the UFO sort of Mythos has become more Sinister and dark or is there still like a significant component of it which is uh kind of hawks back a little bit to the I guess you could say the contact ease in the 50s right it's more of a hopeful image or um message I should say like which one think predominates these days oh it's well so 100% like a darker image you're seeing a threat narrative right uh that's what's been put out there by activists uh and the you know the the core believer group uh that they're painting it to be more of a threat in our airspace uh than they are something positive and the reason you you would do that is because you want to raise uh the attention of Congress and the government um because if you if you say it's a threat then that raises alarm bells and that grabs attention a lot quicker than saying well these could be peaceful beings that are just flying around you know and shouldn't be too big of an issue you know we're just letting you know it's out there versus a threat where hey every time something goes in the air that's carrying civilians or any kind of human life it's constantly threatened by what's in our skies right now we should take this is serious so it kind of has more of a darker connotation to it um than in the past where it was more so just it was experiencers given their experience and it was always a mixed bag you had a duct teas you know that goes either way but there are experiences to say they could be good they could be coming here to save us save Humanity uh from like nuclear you know issues or whatever the case may be uh right now it's definitely the threat narrative that's that's taken hold and that threat narrative do you think it's a reflection of like social tensions and concerns like uh illegal immigration or terrorism and things of that sort well those things can be portrayed to be part of it honestly my assessment would be the reason why they're kind of get they're pushing the threat narrative is because that's how you get the attention from the people that hold taxpayers money and fund programs and if you can say there's a threat that means that now you've created uh a need and if you're a company that can address those needs well they'll come to you and say all right we'll give you this much money and this access to investigate these things that we see as threats and I really think that's why you're seeing um certain individuals in the community push a threat narrative because it will lead to funding it will lead to accesses and then you're going to have that core group of Believers now have inside uh to government or even civilian um you know airliner uh UFO reports but if these people who want to be insiders they genuinely believe that we're being visited by other worldly entities um wouldn't they realize that like pushing a threat narrative is potentially very dangerous if like the whole posture is defensive and we're seeing them as hostile these these creatures or whatever like wouldn't you know logically connect that this would be like potentially starting a war with another race of of beings something like that so it's it's very interesting right um but the the premise behind it is you know if you're going to allocate Manpower and time to investigate properly then you got to have the funding to do it um and I imagine that once they would have the access then you're going to see core beliefs of what they think it could be start to come out more right so let's create a threat narrative but once we gain access let's say well you're going to see other belief Styles start to bleed out in my opinion because there are people that think like we like we just discussed that do think it's a positive presence you know that think that they they're here for all sorts of reasons um you know and those people they've made those the statements publicly but they know that right now there are things since the Chinese spy balloon incident we now know that there's not 100% accountability of everything that floats around in our airspace and they can take advantage of that and that is one way to do that now once they get in once they get funded then then it's kind of hey let's just take it now it's investigative mode it's more like Paranormal investigating and then they try to say okay well they're here let's discuss why they're here right then that positive aspect can bleed in so that's kind of how I see it that's how it would that's how it would unroll un seen is like the default arena in which people want to sort of get in inside of like couldn't these people ask like billionaires for money you know something like that or some public Institute which could dedicate itself to UFOs why is it always the government that's like the Holy Grail well because the spending right government spending we know that there's been there's unfortunately There's issues with government spending in the past uh especially in the mil military-industrial comp you know complex uh there's there's a lot of spending so what way to get some of that spending then to go with that narrative but you see uh foundations like the soul Foundation uh and that's what they're doing they are going they are looking for investors they're they're looking for people to buy into the research they're trying to do uh we know that because there's video that that has popped up of David grush out there uh lobbying to investors uh on probably Soul's behalf uh to try to get that money we saw um Gary Nolan at the it was a conference I forgot what it was called but it was you know entrepreneurs and investors were all there and he was out there you know basically selling soul and selling the idea of Soul so investors will will will come in with money and say hey I believe in what you're doing here I'll give you this amount of money and so that's what you're seeing as well right um soul is doing that and there's there's evidence here lately to support that they might be actually pushing away from certain whistleblowers and certain kind of ideas uh and personalities to try to narrow their scope and their credibility for those investors to come in and take them seriously and uh what do you think is the role of AI like do you think it's an appropriate or suitable you know technology to use or what are the dangers or pitfalls in that unfortunately AI there's there's there's big pros and cons to it I'm not a big proponent of it I'm still starting to learn about it myself um but we're seeing that you know AI is getting so good with with what are called Deep fakes that I mean it's going to get to a point where videos are going to come out that are going to look so legitimate that it's going to be a hard time trying to discern like what is this real or is this not right that that's a problem um you know and then of course AI can be used for good things for you know collecting data U and uh information and trying to filter that uh so I don't know how much it play into it as I'm just kind I admittedly I'm still kind of ignorant to AI uh and the capabilities and how they would be used in this context but um I can see a proide and definitely a conside to it you mentioned um in a previous uh I think it was on Steve cambi and you were mentioning that somebody was talking about like the nro in the context of I think it was gush or somebody uh remind me what that was if you can remember it was um the nro was supposedly brought in to ask like question some guy about his sighting but like they would have had nothing to do with that because they just deal with satellites and so can you tell us AIT about sort of that type of problem where people don't understand what intelligence agencies do more than likely it was EI you know according to his resume and when he was with UF uh is either with the nro or the NGA and and uh oftentimes there's the claims that grush brought people in to skips um to collect information about whatever it was they were whistleblowing on um and the problem with that is is I find it highly unlikely that that the companies that the agencies he would have been working for either the nro or the NGA would have if if those UAP the UAP task force was not an uh official Duty for those agencies most likely um and it was an additional duty then I don't see them giving skiff access uh to for people to come in so that grush can interview them uh for those type for that type of disclosure or whistleblowing um and and then the video came out recently even after the cambian thing where Eric Davis and how put off admit that they're the ones that put grush onto the information for the whistleblowers like they're the ones that put out that information and gave it to grush and that gave that that led grush down to the path of whistleblowers so uh chances are that uh you know the information wasn't classified to begin with if they're giving it to each other like that um which I'm pretty sure uh I don't know if Eric Davis still has a clearance but I don't think put offw anymore and it's a very very good possibility that not even grush has a clearance anymore uh so I just don't see those specific agencies uh using their facilities to bring in UFO whistleblowers for an additional duty that was not associated with that agency if that makes sense right right um I don't know if you want to talk about this but you're probably a you're probably somewhat familiar at least with the Paul benowitz affair with Richard Dodie Richard Dodie yeah and that whole that all those Shenanigans which he supposedly was involved in um first of all do you credit that story or do you think we should just take anything that do says with a grain of salt and also um is there much evidence for intelligence Community sort of involvement in UFO the topic as a Counter Intelligence type of tool so it could definitely be used as Counter Intelligence the problem is now that the UFO lore is so ingrained to just everyday Society right we've grown up with s you know you know Sci-Fi movies and things like Independence Day and and all these movies that associate aliens I don't think that the government nor do uh intelligence agencies really need to invest much more in pushing A Narrative of aliens as far as Counter Intelligence goes I just it to be honest and I've said this many times the public scops themselves and the government really doesn't have to do much for it and the case for that would have been drones we saw what happened with the drones it was a huge that the we scoped our ourselves right and uh that that's that right there is uh evidence enough that I just don't think that that's what's going on when people say well we're being sced why we the government doesn't have to do anything the best thing the government can do in form of a s up and Counter Intelligence is just let the UAP narrative keep going let these people keep getting in front of Congress all it does is keep the attention off of them and what they're trying to do behind closed doors that has nothing to do with aliens but definitely advancing our Tech which we we're always doing right um as far as Richard Dodie I would I've called out Richard Dodie you know I haven't had much uh exposure to him uh but in the exposure I've had especially on X I've called him out for several things that I know that he's lied about um and uh like for instance he said that everybody with a security clearance you can find an online database that you can just look up people and see if they have a security clearance that's not true U because if that was true then the adversaries uh other countries would be able to access that same database find out everybody that has a clearance and Target those individuals that is not a thing right uh that's so Richard Dodie has been been apparently plenty of times caught in several lies um as far as the the benoits thing I've I saw Mirage man and I don't know what to take from that as far as how much he had to do with that um everything that he says like you said it shouldn't be with a grain of salt it should be a whole block assault because I just don't see that person being credible but people still host host him and believe the things that he says because he's so he can just rat rattle them off like it's fact because he he's so good at lying and deceiving right and I think that's that kind of plays into a little bit of what Jason Sans does now is he's so quick to Rattle off information that's not true people perceive that as him telling the truth and I just don't see that to be the case well since we're talking about some of the classics in UFO mythology uh what do you think of the Bob Lazar story like can you give anything from your perspective which might add to this whole you know Saga so uh I learned more about Bob Lazar when I came on to this platform on X uh that I did beforehand um Bob lazzar's story has always been intriguing and it's arguably Bob lazar's name is arguably the household name when it comes to UFOs even more so than alzando um and that's because just the constant well you know you've seen Lazar on Joe Rogan which that helps tremendously right we know George snap and Jeremy Corbell both rode rode lazar's coattails to the fame that they have now both of them did the same same thing pushing lazzar's stories and then next thing you know you see them you know nap used it uh to get you know gain a lot of attention when he was a reporter you saw uh corbel do that when he was able to get on Joe Rogan and all of a sudden now everybody knows who Jeremy Corbell is as far as is lazar's story I think it was Dr Dean Johnson I believe is who's on X he's got a incredible thread breakdown of lazar's actual history that's been located um you know I just don't believe as somebody uh that's held a clearance and actively does I don't see how somebody who's been who has a history Lazar had ever maintaining or even gaining a secur clearance much less going into hangers at Area 51 or wherever and uh and and touching you know spacecraft from another world it's very far-fetched I think is I think even Christopher melan at one point on Joe Rogan stated that uh Bob lazar's history and especially his background is not credible um to say that you had a degree from MIT but nobody can find records of it well it's easy to hide behind hide behind the the uh the notion that the government uh deleted your your uh you know your education background you know that's a conspiracy theory right there that people are going to run with because that's something you can't disprove right people have found that that you can't find any of his uh his diplomas or anything online but when you say well the government deleted it or you know that's why you can't find it anymore well how do you how do you disprove that you can't and it's a good hide behind um so there's other factors into his history he wasn't exactly who he said he was I think he was like a he worked for like a um a contracted Electrical Company of some kind and that's how he was gaining access to that area um he was not a physicist and uh there's just been a lot come out you know something about he was uh he had a bro he was in charge of a brothel at one point and he was charged for that like you know he married a woman that was convicted I think of murder or something along those lines who was a convicted Fallon those are all major red flags that you will never get a security clearance especially one that as high as he claims so do I think Lazar is uh legitimate absolutely not it's a cool story though cool story I will say that yeah yeah I I I used to believe it when I was a teenager but see I got more white lies off that well you got to think too when Lazar story came out we didn't have the access to information like we do now right the amount of data and information we can just we have it our finger tips is so much easier to look in the background of people than it was 30 40 years ago yeah 50 years ago right so that was another reason why Lazar story was able to go so long uh without you know proper vetting yes yes exactly um now these UFO stories they sometimes converge into a common narrative and sometimes they fragment because like the people don't like each other for various reasons um do you see what do you sort of maybe not anticipate but if the Alondo story does collapse how do you think it might come to that conclusion well to some uh especially people like me I think it's already collapsed he's done gone back on the whole director of of a program so many times um I think what you're going to start seeing is whether you believe um a tip was a thing assap did this uh uaf did this what you're seeing now is it looked like the the inner workings and the the infrastructure of these organizations was so sloppy you're seeing people come out and say things that contradict each other and they all work together so how how do how does the information that you put out when you're working with these people in the past contradict what they say and it goes back and forth case in point the the ever growing Saga of Jay Stratton and elando like who ran a tip was it was it alzando was it Stratton like we it's it's constant contradiction and what that tells me is whatever you guys were doing in that in that whole group it was very sloppy it was not structured correctly and it was no wonder it failed in just a couple years so you know you're going to start seeing them kind of eat each other keep going back and forth but what my prediction of this year uh is you're going to see more people that were either affiliated with uaf come out which we've seen here lately like this uh this Logan individual who was associated with UF Sarah gam associated with UF um whether whatever capacity it was they were all still Associated you're going to see more and more people start to come out from there and then you're going to see whistleblowers start to come forward because after that last Congressional hearing with Alando it fell flat right we know that uh you know Anna Paulina she was quoted by Matt llo you can hear the recording where she said you know it' been nice to get more answers and less you know promoting your book right it was she quoted saying is a waste of our time that's what when you're on the Pinnacle and you're on the floor and you've been fighting for years to get information out and then when you're on this the stage and you fail to deliver that's where it's all going to come downhill and you're going to see whistleblowers are going to have to start coming out publicly because the the the idea that was formed to bring these whistleblowers together as a as a group and push them forward to the intelligence Community the icig and everything like that it's all starting to falter and you're going to see that and that's what's going to keep keep happening I think it's going to all end up crumbling unless some something like Soul or Americans for safe Aerospace actually gets that access inside if it doesn't you're going to start to see this stuff kind of start going downhill interesting and um so do you wna I think that's all the questions I had did did you want to say anything more um about your own ideas or where people can find you well right now it's just X um I I have been talking with someone I'm gonna kind of keep it uh close to chest right now we're thinking about starting a podcast potentially um and it's going to be more uh scientific based and bringing in incredible people to talk about um their scientific backgrounds uh and and try to uh get information out there and every now and then see how that relates to the UAP topic and see if we can get some answers that way um it's it's kind of the the idea um we're gonna we're GNA kind of hopefully dive into it here yeah it's you know the holiday season got obviously there's there's you can't really commit to much during the holiday season so this year we're going to look to to start that um but as far as that goes uh I think you know you can just find me on X and uh you can follow me there and I try to do the best I can because I've always been interested in this subject and I tell people all the time you know I believe that something's out there but I don't think that the people that are claiming to have the access and the knowledge uh and the evidence and they're gatekeeping it I don't think they're being honest to the people in the community and I point out those red flags and all I'm doing is trying to find my own truth and I just go where the information takes me that's all I can do so good advice uh well Chris um thank you very much and I hope we can continue this discussion uh like I said I uh I I'm kind of Allin this thing uh whether you know people like the information I put out or not in the community it's very hard to sell when you're opposing the overall Narrative of what people believe in but I only just do it for my personal you know my personal interests I just get facts out there if I wanted to be a social media influencer which i' I delved into the whole Tik Tok thing that's where I initially got my following um if I wanted to do that I could definitely be Pro disclosure and I would get a lot more a bigger f following I only care about what the truth is and I just put that out there and and put my assessment along with it yep thank you for your integrity and um oh by the way there's also some I mentioned the cambian interview but you've done a few of those and I think maybe on other channels as well so uh maybe you can make a playlist and I can share that okay interviews that might be helpful for viewers yeah I could try to put that together I'm actually uh going to be filming one tonight uh on another platform uh so once that gets out I'll definitely put that out there as well um so uh anything I do from here on out I'll definitely let you know and I'll try to put those things out there more often where people can find me thank you yes sir