Reality Check: Ross Coulthart unveils new UAP video & veteran supports whistleblower l Backscroll

Transcript

[Music] Hello and welcome to this special edition of Reality Check, following straight on the heels of what I do think is one of the most important stories I've ever read. Jake Barber, you'll accept, is a very difficult story to take straight away. And I can appreciate people may be feeling some degree of onlogical shock with claims of psionic influence on nonhuman technology. We've been told for years by the US military and by very cleverly placed films in Hollywood and books that psychic phenomena is nonsense. But I am I'm thrilled by recent developments like the telepathy tapes which despite the debunkers continue to show quite interesting evidence of psychic phenomena.

And I've known for a while that there is a link between human consciousness and whatever the technology or the intelligence is that's purportedly behind what we're seeing in our skies, our oceans, and in orbit. So, to help me analyze the implications from this story, I'd like to bring in two very special guests. First up, Rear Admiral Tim Galedet, who's a longtime friend of the show. We've interviewed him before. Um, he's a former head of the NAA and a very senior retired military officer who's given very distinguished service to his country.

and he's recently spoken out himself about how he believes that there is some kind of NHI presence engaging with this planet that seems to want to be heard. And also joining us is a correspondent from The Hill, another good friend of the show, Merrick von Renenamp. Welcome, gentlemen. Uh, now I'm not asking you to be nice. I want you to be brutal.

I'm expecting we'll get the inevitable debunkers and trolls taking a swipe at us. So, if either of you want to make any comments about the show or ask me a question, fire away. >> Well, let me start here. Uh, thank you for having us on, Ross. And it it's I cannot say verify 100% that that Jake is accurate and legit because I don't know him and I don't know the fellow Air Force uh personnel that you that vouch for him, but I do know John Blitch, the former Dev Group officer.

And uh so off the cuff with his endorsement and voucher um I'm inclined to trust and and think that Jake is legitimate. And that's that's my first first spot on that. >> Yeah. I I I I don't know um whether we made it clear enough just how distinguished a military career uh Lieutenant Colonel John Blitch has. He's he's a former Delta Force officer, so it's quite unique to have somebody from his background speaking publicly.

and he's also written extensively on the phenomenon. He's taken a very close interest in it and he's got a forthcoming book coming out. He's also, as you'll learn in an interview that we do with him later next week, he's an experiencer and he's had direct experience of the phenomenon. And it's quite chilling what he describes happened to him. And it's interesting, you know, Tim, a lot of military personnel have actually said to me, including people, elite operators from the special forces, they they've talked about their experiences with the phenomenon.

In one of the things that we did as a preparatory exercise for this story, we actually went to a field very close to Fort Bragg where the uh very elite of the American special forces are located and we actually did C5 with some of the people who have assisted in the preparation of this film. um they they are very very interested a lot of these elit elite military operators in this kind of phenomena. They do not dismiss it and as you say Colonel John Blitch is one of those people and um the other two people uh Don and Fred who backed up Jake's story and they have firsthand experience on the range with Jake which is quite extraordinary. They are elite tier one military operatives, very highly trained, the absolute creme de la creme of the military special forces in the United States. And it was an honor and indeed a real pleasure to get to know them.

They're good human beings. They derive absolutely no benefit from telling me what they've told me and supporting Jake's story. And I I found it intriguing because I freely admit when I first spoke to Jake and I said, "So, how are we bringing down these craft?" and he explains to me it's not the bringing down that's the issue it's the summoning how do we get them to come in the first place and as we all know there's long been talk uh notably at Dr. Steven Greer, for example, has talked about something that he calls CE5, where through meditation and some kind of trained meditative psychic involvement with the phenomena. It's been asserted that it's possible to attract the phenomenon.

And look, I'll be honest, I was a skeptic about that until I met people who could do it. And I've been in the presence of people who were trained as psionic assists by the US military and I've watched them do this summoning and I know it's confronting but by golly it works. Ross, uh, can I I'll just jump in and I'll I'll say first of all, congratulations on an extraordinary interview. Um, I know you put put a lot of time and effort into this, so congratulations. Um the allegations are truly extraordinary.

Um I think everybody will agree on that. Um but if if you haven't punched Jake uh Barber's ticket to another congressional hearing that that you know I think you spurred the the congressional hearing that um that Dave Brush um made his extraordinary uh allegations and revelations at. Um if this does not spur another hearing that brings in more witnesses, then then we have a major major problem. And I know you've spoken about this, but I this is near and dear to my heart. This is this is a constitutional issue.

Um Congress appears to be very much in the dark um about these allegations and and they are extraordinary allegations, but the more people that come forward um the smoke is just it's overwhelming. It's overbearing at this point, I think. Um and and kudos to you. And I I think um Ross, when we spoke last uh several months ago, we we spoke of kind of a critical mass of of whistleblowers coming forward. And I think this is a a major step forward in in in having kind of that that mass of individuals, right, that that is self- sustaining at some point that we hopefully will will get more clarity and get more investigation and and true investigation.

Um, you know, the hearings on on the House Oversight Committee, while um I think informative, I I think we need something with teeth. We need subpoenas. We need we need some real uh steely eyed a very hard look at this. And um if Congress isn't up to the task, then then the new the incoming Trump administration really needs to shake things up. >> I agree with you, Merrick.

I mean, I've I've had months of people in some ca some cases abusing me or threatening me because they get angry that we're not just saying everything we know. And I think one of the the problems out there in the field of social media and UAP world is a lot of people have no idea how hard it is to persuade somebody like Jake to speak publicly. It has been over two years now. uh it's been an enormous job uh basically persuading him of the merits of coming forward and persuading him that he can feel safe about doing it. But the thing I really admire about Jake and uh I think we explained this in the story but I want to reemphasize it.

He explains in the story that the people that he liazed with in the Pentagon's UFO office, they've confirmed to him that what he saw on the place he terms the range was alien tech, NHI tech, nonhuman intelligence technology. And that's key. And what people need to understand is before we put Jake on television, we've actually gone through the process with him of watching him give evidence. So we've been with him when he's gone back and actually I was consulting with him on the weekend when he was actually telling his aerospace employer that, you know, he was concerned about the safety of himself and the safety of his men. there had been um a confrontation that we're not going to go into a lot of detail about, but basically they his team came to the conclusion that their lives were under threat.

It doesn't get any more serious than that. They also came to the conclusion that they believed that people they knew have been murdered to protect this secret. And moreover, there's been ongoing threats and intimidation of people to protect the secrecy of a program that frankly I know Congress has not been properly briefed about. Just to address one thing you say as well in in your commentary. Um, yes, Jake has given evidence to the Senate Select Committee for Intelligence, but the way they do this is very interesting.

I think there's a cordon senator. They they protect the the politicians by bringing in witnesses like him who are so explosive and they sit them down in front of the staffers. Yes, it's all recorded. It's all done according to the proper form in a skiff and they're, you know, properly attended by all of the very senior staffers. But what what concerns me, the reason why Congress, I think, is aware, but also not aware at the same time, is because you have this ridiculous situation where congressional representatives, they're they're frightened.

They're scared of this UAP issue and they're intimidated by it. And so they send their staffers, often their legal council, along so that they have legal professional privilege to protect the secrecy of what they've been told. And there may very well be a private briefing. I know because I've spoken to senators in particular who have been briefed about these allegations. But what's happening, I think, is a timidity, a fear.

Uh and and we know, I mean, I'm not going to name names, but we know that there have been people at very high levels in some of these committees who have basically misused their positions to suppress public awareness of this issue. And I agree with you at the heart of this, this is a constitutional issue. I mean, when when somebody like Tim swore an oath to serve as an officer in the US Navy, which he did, and reached the absolute pinnacle of the US Navy, he swore an oath to the Constitution, not to the US Navy. He swore an oath to the Constitution. And the lawyer in me, the attorney in me feels that that's an extraordinarily important obligation.

And when I've talked to the military people, and believe me, there are dozens more than the people that I've put on the TV today, uh, when I've talked to military people who who've basically told me about what they know of this legacy program, they're torn because they're patriots just like these men that have spoken today. They gain absolutely nothing by speaking publicly like they have today. All they gain is a whole lot of hell. They're going to suffer the slings and arrows of trolls and debunkers. There'll be the inevitable attacks on them.

Uh, you know, sure, every little detail of their personal lives will be dredged through and they'll be looking for and they'll throw it at them just like they did with David Grush. And frankly, it's a disgrace. I think part of the problem at the moment is the UAP community needs to take a long hard look at itself and stop treating this like entertainment. It has to acknowledge that this is serious. We are talking about egregious breaches of the law, including the criminal law.

And so, Congress, the mainstream media, the president, the incoming president, they all need to wake up to themselves and realize the significance of what this reveals. Tim, I I I guess I don't expect you off the off the top to endorse, and I would be shocked if you had done. I don't expect and I never expected either of you to endorse the credibility of Jake Barber because it's been a proving process for me over literally years. And one of the things that I've had to do is talk off the record to people at a very high level in the military. And I'm sure you've had this experience as well, Tim.

And I'm not asking you to name names, but there are good people I'm talking to in uniform, patriots who are in very senior roles in government who are praying that this story makes a change because they do genuinely want the public to know. And they're they're absolutely terrified about the consequences of an unchecked national security state being allowed to spend billions of dollars of taxpayers money without proper accountability. And I think the intimations behind what's described by Jake and his team about the threat to their safety, the fact that they feared that they would be murdered by their own employer or people associated with their employer, that is a very grave implication. So I guess Tim, are you hearing the same desire, I guess, for for change inside the national security establishment that you've come from yourself? >> Oh, everywhere. dozens of people and the list is growing every day, Ross.

And in fact, that's why I wrote the op-ed I did after I testified in the last congressional hearing where I contrasted my testimony and that of John Kuzlowski's and the stating the fact that the the government is keeping UAP largely classified. And I think it's time now for the public to know. And I do that out of the sense of patriotism that you just mentioned, Ross, and as as does Merrick. He served in the government, too. and we want we want the truth.

That's what we're pursuing here. And I and I actually though I will go and say a few comments about Jake. I am inclined to believe him because I don't think this sigh topic is weird or controversial as I guess most people would say. Think about it. The CIA had the Stargate program and they've said or claimed to have disestablished it.

But like so many of those programs that have been uncovered, they still continue most likely in a classified version with a different name. And and and there's if you look at Joe Mcmongle's interviews, uh the validity of the remote viewing phenomena, which is telepathic and sigh is really 100% it's documented in scientific papers. You have institutions like the department of perceptual studies I believe dos in University of Virginia which has rigorously examined these sigh phenomena for 50 years and documented there very well. I think I think the reason we're not being more open as a public is because the government has tried to suppress this and cast a stigma on it including UAP. So, I think there is a connection.

There's a large body of scientific evidence behind it. And what I'd like to see, and I truly hopeful, Ross, is that this interview is going to be one of many. And the other operators or contractors that are working with Jake will come out or have worked with Jake. And then we'll start really seeing a a a ground swell. I my desire is that this will will lead to a new capernac revolution for our understanding of reality where we're not at the center of the universe and we're not the only uh form of higher order intelligence life and just think about all the different research efforts and universities and institutes to explore the nature of this new intelligence is just and the technology and the again the sci phenomenon which is not being explored as widely as it should be.

You know, Tim, the thing that really shocks me is I'm talking to people, both military personnel, uh, individual civilian personnel, and particularly scientists inside the legacy program. I'm in the ridiculous situation whereas one of the few journalists that worked in mainstream media covering this issue with the exception of somebody like Merrick, for example, it's a very rare area to get involved in. And I've had the most extraordinary people reach out to me and they are sitting watching this. They're waiting with apprehension this weekend and they're terrified that there's not going to be a response from the new administration. They're skeptical.

They think President Trump will wimp it. They think that there's every probability that like every president before him, he's going to accept the lame national security arguments that the public should be kept in the dark about this for another 30 or 40 years. And that's certainly what the gatekeepers are trying to do. One of the things I've noticed, by the way, is there are trolls who are building Twitter accounts trying to use the algorithms of social media to run the public opinion on social media to try and direct adverse comments about Jake. And we've been tracking it.

In fact, we've been tracking it in quite a sophisticated way for the first time. And we're already aware that there are people who are almost certainly connected to the intelligence community who are involved in disinformation, active disinformation to try and spread lies basically about these people and about these allegations before the public even hear them. It's fascinating to see a coordinated public campaign and I believe it's being run from sections of the defense intelligence community. And if you remember Tim, you'd know your law, Executive Order 123. It forbids the running of intelligence operations against the American public by any intelligence agency in the United States.

And Marrick, you're probably aware of that as well. I think the the implications of this story are enormous because what it suggests is that there has been an intelligence agency for whom Jake worked and acknowledged that he worked as a non-official cover basically working through a um a private aerospace company and they are essentially administering a program which is being kept from Congress and from the knowledge of presidents. That to me I think is the gravest implication behind what we've exposed today. >> Absolutely. And and if if these allegations are all true, we're looking at number one, just as you said, a constitutional crisis, but also this this potential intelligence operation against American citizens, right? So you two strikes um nothing short if this is all true.

I mean, you could easily see a church commission 2.0, right? which is the famous congressional committee that was stood up in the 70s to investigate um abuses by the intelligence community. Um you can easily see um something like that being stood up um as these whistleblowers continue to come forward. And I I just want to make one one point to to to the you know your your listeners and your viewers, Ross, and and um and that is that I think it's easy to get lost in um the uh you know the hype around one whistleblower, in this case four. Um but this is this is much broader, right? We've had Chuck Schumer uh previously the speaker, pardon me, the the Senate majority leader, put forward 64 pages of legislation that alleges exactly what uh Mr. Barber alleges.

Um and we've had uh Dave Grush, a whistleblower, go under oath to say the same thing. We had Lou Alzando go under oath to say the same thing. Um Admiral Galedet, right, on this call went under oath. And I I I don't think you had firsthand knowledge, but I think you testified to the fact that you believe that that this is all um that these alleged programs do exist and that that information, extraordinary information is being hidden from the American public. And it's not just those individuals.

We had very credible people in Congress. Senator Marco Rubio, uh likely to be the um Secretary of State in the incoming uh Trump administration. Sounds like he's going to sail through the confirmation process. has said some extraordinary things and vouched for the credibility of these whistleblowers. Um, so look, it it it's it's easy to get wrapped up in one story and this is a huge story, Ross.

Again, kudos to you. Um, but let's let's keep the bigger picture in mind and and I just want to add one thing. I I was I could I have confirmed with Dave Grush. Um, and again, most of your listeners and viewers might know, but briefly, uh, Dave Gash was a former high level intelligence officer who, um, conducted a lawful investigation of of these alleged, um, retrieval and reverse engineering programs, testified under oath that he had 40 witnesses that he built a case on over 40 years. Um, and I spoke with with Dave and and he this is interesting.

He mentioned that uh Jake Barber is not is not one of his 40 witnesses. However, um Barber is clearly and all of the the three individuals that the operators that um corroborated his story, at least vouched for him, um are clearly highquality witnesses that are saying the exact same thing. So unless somebody's writing some extraordinary fanfiction for to for who knows what end, um this is something these are all allegations that we need to take extremely seriously precisely because we're hearing the same thing over and over and over again. Yeah, let's uh let's then America's spot on and I want to pile on that and address the the incoming Trump administration as you pointed to. In addition to Secretary Rubio having spoken out about UAP, we also have John Rackcliffe, of course, who's going likely to be the CIA director if confirmed.

He's done the same. And then Mike Waltz has also done that and he is likely to become the NE next national security adviser. And so those are those are three real positive potential allies in this effort and and know a couple of other things and I can say this with authority because I was the Trump appointee uh that he is disruptive by nature and I think no one's going to argue that and and if anything could be more disruptive for the status quo it'll be UAP disclosure. So there's an inclination there. He's also uh has tended to stack his administration with innovators.

For example, the next director of the office in science and technology policy, Michael Katzios, a good friend of mine, an ally when I was in the administration, he was the chief technology officer in the White House. And I could see him looking at the the techn technology spin-off potential of this as being great. And and and and the other thing and u there is a desire there was in the last administration. There's a desire in this one to show American leadership. And I mentioned that in my Hill OpEd that I mentioned previously that that this is an issue where we really stand to do that in the whole in the world.

And I I think uh when opportunities are presented like that uh they're likely to be move forward and so that that's actually a a role I'm taking on. I made this recommendation for the Trump administration specifically in my oped and and as people start getting getting into office next week, I'm going to be engaging them. One of one of the things with Tim, I I I really admire you as such a senior retired military officer taking the courageous step to speak out and a lot of people watching this and I know I've got friends who I spoke to before this program and they encouraged me. They were in uniform, very high levels and they they I I they encouraged me to go ahead with the story. One of the things I always do as an investigative journalist is I go to sources and I say, "Look, I've got this story.

For God's sake, if there's something I need to know, I know, you know, there's top secret SCI compartmentalized clearances. There might be something I don't know. For God's sake, let me know. Tim, one thing I want to ask you. A lot of people wrestling with the decision about whether they should come forward or not.

They're looking at you because you're you've taken such a strong leadership role in such an admirable way. Have you suffered blowback? Has this damaged you at all in your standing amongst your military peers? Have you suffered threats or intimidation of any kind for taking the stand that you've taken in so courageously speaking out and revealing your knowledge of the existence of this possible NHI phenomenon? >> Well, the answer is yes and no, Ross. Uh in fact I was at a professional society meeting this week and um few a few people I know talked about it but it was all in terms of support and otherwise my reputation as a scientist is really kind of unchanged because some of these communities and ocean science and atmospheric science aren't necessarily following those this this topic at large. So, professionally, no. It's only been in in some of these media outlets that these professional trollers, as you mentioned, whose credibility and integrity are uh near zero to me and who I really don't take any stock in.

That that that's been the only source of blowback. And that's just going to happen. It goes with the territory. I testified in front of Congress probably 12 times my life. So, it's it's just what comes with the territory.

I can handle it. So, Merrick, help me here, my friend. You know the Hill. You know the politics. What are those jellybacked, weak politicians going to do when they get this story? Are they going to respond? Do you think there's going to be any change? >> That Ross, that is the the mil and I like the way you framed it.

Thank you for that. Um uh >> I'll say it. I'm down here in Australia, you know, so they can't they can't get at me down here. That's right. >> Um, look, I mean, if it were up to me, this every alarm bell on the hill would be going off and every office should be going off.

Um, and and I again, I fear that most people just there are there's there in the government there's there's something called agenda inertia, right? There's always some other pressing issue. There's always China, there's always Ukraine, there's always the Gaza potentially ceasefire. there's always another issue and I can see how UAP um is is continually downgraded intentionally or not because there are other burning issues at play and that I fear and I'm going to go back to what I said earlier but I fear that people lose the big picture of where we are and what we what has happened over the last five six years in this um on this extraordinary topic much thank to thanks to both of you gentlemen. So, um I hope that people on on the Hill staffers do not view this in isolation and realize that there is there is a heck of a lot more to this. There are many other individuals that u have come forward already and that that Ross you you clearly are in touch with that are thinking about uh coming forward.

I I just want to quickly take a minute just to echo Ross, your um your your kind words about Admiral Galidet because he's demonstrated extraordinary leadership uh out of uniform. Um and as I think many people know, um he took this very seriously uh when aviators off the east coast were observing uh UAP. um this is something that alarmed him and he is standing up for those guys that u maybe because of stigma or because of a lack of process or procedure or what have you um were not able to stick up for their own air safety needs right their their own safety of flight needs so um a credit to to to you Admiral Galedet for for bringing your voice I mean it's not everybody we have every day that we have a a chief meteorologist of the Navy I believe and and a former acting head of Noah which is just an extraordinarily important um institution ution and government agencies. So, so thank you for for that. >> Well, thank you, America.

And I'll I want to say kudos back to you for your courage to speak out. I know you're taking the same risk, but you you made a couple points and I I want to add to one of them about all the wrong that is in covering up this issue of UAP. And another is a use of our taxpayer dollars. If if any of our taxpayer dollars are being put forward to pay these contractors that are engaging in corporate warfare, uh there that's a problem. That is not how Americans want their tax dollars spent.

And so another opportunity that the incoming Trump administration has is to restore trust in the government that because it is at an all-time low and just for for years it's been declining. I think the last four saw a degree of dishonesty that uh shocked a lot of Americans and so there's a chance to change that and I think coming forward with UAP in a deliberate controlled fashion might go a long way to restoring that trust. So Tim, one of the things I've been wrestling with is an explanation of how something as monstrous as this kind of cover up could possibly be perpetrated without the public knowing about it, without it being officially disclosed. You've worked inside the the defense establishment. How do they keep this sort of stuff secret? I mean, why hasn't it leaked before? Well, this is very this is why your interview with Jake is so interesting to me because you you could tell without him coming out um completely the levels of compartment compartmentalization if you will how compartmented is that what I want to say uh that effort was he was just security and logistics he didn't talk about the operators on the ground attaching the sling to the object or whatever the exploitation that's going on afterwards.

wards and wherever. Uh and so that that was interesting that just showed uh that that how that that the compartmented nature of that is one reason it's been difficult to get out. uh money, power, all those reasons uh that those are factors and uh again I think someone's else has said this before I have too that there are a lot of technologies and and modes of operation and tactics, techniques and procedures that the public does not know and we don't I don't want them to know uh in terms of how we conduct intelligence and counter intelligence that have not come out. So, we're not great, but we have are pretty good in some areas about keeping things under wraps. So, it it doesn't surprise me.

However, when you look at at what's being revealed now, uh things like Roswell not being a hoax, other UAP crashes occurring, and we're seeing and hearing about largely being reported by uh terrific journalists like you. Uh I think we're seeing that that what's happened is things have come out. However, the government has done a very good job at stigmatizing and putting disinformation out to discredit the information that has uh been reported on. >> The one thing I wrestle with is I said earlier how I really did I mean I went out of my way to give anyone a reason for me not to run this story. You know, is there something that's so sacrosanked I beg your pardon about the retrieval program that means that it shouldn't be revealed? You know, one of the arguments that I've had very weakly put to me by somebody quite junior in the CIA was, I suspect, a speculative comment.

They suggested, "Look, maybe what this is all about is protecting technological advances that have been made using this technology that's been recovered, and we don't want to show our adversaries that hand." And Tim, I'd like to get your comment on that. I'm going to promote you. You're the president. You're sitting in the Oval Office. You've just been you you've just been elected.

And a carping journalist like me from outside is begging with you to reveal the UAP program. And the head of the CIA, Office of Science and Technology, probably OGA, walks in the door and he says, "Mr. President, if you reveal this, you are going to blow open the biggest secret in American history and you will jeopardize the biggest technological advances of our time." Do you believe, Tim, Mr. president that the disclosure of NHI, the existence of a non-human intelligence is possible without compromising the kind of programs that we're talking about. >> Absolutely.

I do. And that was the whole purpose of the Schumer amendment, the UAP Disclosure Act, also called that. And and and in that it it put forward a process for the president to approve controlled disclosure. And I I am absolutely on board with protecting technology secrets, national secrets uh for national security of of course, yes, but the public can know and should know that we are not alone and and uh we should be researching that and getting a better understanding of where we're at. How are we going to advance uh with a national strategy of ignorance as Chris Melamu would say? >> And Merrick, I'd like to get your view.

You're the vice president. You've got to make the decision as well. uh what what what would you say to that? I mean, I'm really interested because at the heart of this there is this argument that continually is raised by outsiders that the most plausible reason for the continuing cover up is the argument that it's a slippery slope that if you disclose the existence of NHI, you then disclose inevitably the existence of these programs. And I don't buy that. On the level I know from my own sources that the Russians and the Chinese already know that we've recovered technology.

In fact, I'm told that in the very early days of Glasnost, we actually collaborated with the Russians on a retrieval of a craft in Russia. Now, of course, things have frozen since then, and there is obviously hostilities between Russia and and America, and we are sadly on the brink at times of war or possible conflict. But, Merrick, do you think that disclosing the existence of NHI would inevitably jeopardize national security projects of enormous significance? So assuming there is NHI and all these programs exist uh got to be a good journalist and and you know be objective here. Um I agree completely with Admiral Galedet that no I think uh that that it can be done. However, however, if these allegations of contractor oncontractor firefights, I mean, if that if anything like that is is remotely accurate, um the gatekeepers of these programs, these alleged programs, I can see them fighting tooth and nail because, as they say, the cover up often is worse than the crime, right? And and we're we're dealing with a massive scandal.

So, I can see why certain individuals would not would be fighting tooth and nail against disclosure to the point of potentially blackmailing or threatening politicians, lawmakers, and so on and so forth. Um, but bottom line to answer your question, no, I think that the two can be bifurcated. And I I want to maybe just quickly touch on what I think putting on my my kind of national security, my geopolitical hat here. um regardless of whether China or Russia have have recovered these craft and and the Senate Intelligence Committee put out language basically suggesting that didn't make it into law, but it it did come out of the the committee. Um we haven't had a single substantive discussion about the geopolitical ramifications of that announcement, let alone the financial, the the economic, the social, the right, the cultural.

Um, but the geopolitical, that's something that I I I grapple with and I I really struggle with because nobody has had that that in-depth analysis conversation of what does this look like globally? How do how do our adversaries respond? I are we all going to sing Kubaya because we're not alone in the universe. I don't know. Uh that hope is not a strategy, right? So, um, this this raises a host of questions and I suspect, frankly, that what I just discussed is a reason why a president or a vice president or whoever, uh, is a decision maker would be hesitant, shall we say, to disclose this to the public without having that that intensive um, tabletop exercise, that red team, right? That that exercise to to talk through what the ramifications of that disclosure are and how it's done. I I suspect it's easier to keep the cover up and not have to reveal embarrassing secrets and corruption and probably impropriy. I mean, we I think that the fact the thing that's always fascinated me about this is Donald Rumsfeld literally one day before 9/11 reveals I think there's a two or three trillion I've forgotten the exact number two or three trillion dollars unaccounted for inside the Department of Defense.

and auditors basically can't explain that incredible amount of money. The implications that I'm hearing from many many people is that there are underground facilities that have been built to house these facilities. I even know the locations of some of them. Um I've been exploring witnesses who've told me that they've been inside those facilities. I'm very interested in hearing from people who are aware of those facilities and the government needs to know that this is being talked about.

So if this is important national security infrastructure, they have to provide a very good reason very very quickly for why the public shouldn't be told this because I know a lot of people out there in UFO social media world, they think everything should just be recklessly released and they think there should be catastrophic disclosure. full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes. I don't agree with that. I've got friends who've been injured in service because of information getting out and being publicized in a way that compromised them in a very dangerous situation overseas. I can understand the need for sensitivity on national security operations and it's important.

It's part of my ethical duty as a journalist to pay respect to that and make sure that we we check it on the way through. Those are balances that need to be made. But I I agree with both of you. I do think that it's ridiculous for the continuing, if it's true, and I do believe it is that we are aware and have long been aware of the existence of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet. It's time to stop lying about it.

And the thing I find grave is that without naming them or embarrassing them, there are public officials that have been induced by the gatekeepers within the last few months to put out statements and to even give evidence to Congress flatly asserting that there's no evidence of this kind of extraterrestrial engagement with this planet. And it may very well be they're playing with semantics. Maybe we know they're not extraterrestrial. They're not off planet. Maybe they're on planet as Tim sometimes suggests.

Perhaps they're underwater or maybe they're interdimensional. Whatever they are, I think we've got a right to know about them. And I think the public impatience is going to mount as a result of today's story, but I don't expect it to be the definitive moment, but I'm certainly grateful to both of you for giving your contribution to today's show. Thanks to both of you. >> Thanks so much for having us.

[Music] Okay. So, I'd now like to bring in scientist Dr. Jim Sigala to get his commentary and expertise on some of the things that Jake Barber has described in the story. Jim Seagala is a physicist engineer who's spent much of the last few years researching anomalous phenomena, especially around the Uinta basement where the skinwalker ranch is located. He's got a PhD in physics and advanced degrees in engineering.

He's been involved in anomalous phenomena research for decades and he's got many connections with most of the well-known scientists in this field. And most interestingly, of course, he worked very closely with the um ORAP BASS program studies that were run out of the Defense Intelligence Agency um uh at the Skinwalker Ranch where a lot of experiences reported anomalous phenomenon. So Jim, welcome to Reality Check. I'm obviously really keen to hear from you whether you think there's any similarities between the kind of things that Jake Barber's described, the anomalous engagements with whatever this object was, this craft was and um also the lesions and the injuries that he's describing. >> Yeah.

So, it was actually quite fascinating as I watched this this the whole film. It was actually quite interesting as you get to certain segments of it. You say, "Okay, I've seen that before. Yep. Yep.

I've seen that before." And it's all very one of the the nicest things is that somebody put it in the context of somebody was boots on the ground handling something that was obviously anomalous or unknown in nature where most of the interactions that I've investigated with uh other scientists. There was really the actual object that created the phenomena wasn't wasn't local. It was someplace else. You know, it might have been buried. It might have been someplace else.

But this time it was something that was very very local. But was great is that you get the same kind of reaction, the emotional reaction from the people and the physical reaction of your physiology changing or your medical medical um injuries coming coming uh to bear. So let's just have a quick look at the clip that we're talking about. I think this is the one where Jake describes the experience of escorting an unknown object in a box from somewhere in Africa back to the United States. Let's just take a quick look to refresh our memory of that clip.

>> We transported what we called mystery boxes all the time. I have no idea. It could have been empty. It probably wasn't empty, but we don't know what was inside the boxes. >> And what were you told if somebody tried to seize that box? What were your orders? uh we we maintained the authority to use lethal force if anyone tried to seize those boxes.

>> So whatever that box was, it was extremely valuable to the US government. >> That's correct. And uh after this particular mission, me and everyone on my team got extremely sick, like physically ill in the hospital. Um within, you know, weeks after this, I'd lost every hair on my body and I also lost the skin on my arms. So the skin's actually falling off your body.

>> Yeah. Like not just falling off like it it was lpping off within a couple of days. Like a severe sunburn. Um I ended up developing a severe heart murmur that I had never had before. >> So Jim, what's your reaction to what Jake describes there? >> Well, it seems to be that he was in contact with some type of energy, you might say, that left a medical footprint on his body.

And that's not something that you can manifest in your head. So obviously something actually did happen to him. There was no question that something did. And there was a lot of other things that happened to him during that period that he narrate that in his narratives that led me to believe that you know what he you know he was very earnest about this. I mean so I believe this actually did happen to him.

There was nothing construed and to have those things happen was uh you know very similar to other other types. What would cause for example skin to literally peel off somebody's body? What what kind of exposure causes that? >> So sometimes radiation will do it. So if you ever have any problem with your skin radiation, they do um electrons. So they'll actually shoot electrons at your skin and give very very localized um radiation deposits into your skin which would cause it to have local lesions on your skin. And sometimes you get, you know, enough of it and it will start separating from the dermis.

It'll start actually separating and coming and peeling off. And I've had many patients describe this and show this and talk to medical doctors. And actually, this was something that was uh pretty prevalent when people actually came into contact with dangerous type of objects. >> The the other thing that Jake described were lesions on his body. Uh have you had that experience yourself with witnesses and other experiences who've been exposed to anomalous? >> Yeah.

So what happens is that as your body absorbs these this energy, it actually does something to it. So your DNA absorbs it. It actually will affect your DNA. It'll break it apart and turn it into almost like a cancer type of thing where it'll actually have a reaction. So you'll get the dimples, you get the bubbles.

um it'll almost look like a herpes, but then when they look at it and they actually biopsy it, it's not a herpes. So, you you'll get these lesions on your on your skin. Luckily, most of these things dissipate after maybe, you know, a week or so, but sure enough, there's a lot of people that have reported that they get these lesions and, you know, they're of course very frightened. Every nobody wants to have these things. >> Sure.

There's a few photographs that you very kindly sent us before we went on air. Can you talk to those? What do they show? >> So, those are instances where people have first of all witnessed something anomalous like they looked up in the sky, there was something floating by, there was an orb, there was a UFO craft. They were never alone. Most of those people were not alone. Other people seen it.

But these particular people um came back like a day or two later or actually 24 hours later and started developing these bubbles on their skin. So these these these areas these blotchy areas that have um these these these pimply areas almost like they very very locally burned or actually had a radiation treatment very locally and then of course that led to um you know discolored urination um all the all the signals that you get or all the symptoms you get when you have exposed or absorbed some type of radiation. One of the things that are very interesting you talked about is heart murmur. Um, one of the interesting things that happens when you have an interaction with these these entities and you have this energy that's coming from them, your body reacts in a very very sinister way. You're, you know, you get into a fight flight type of thing where your immune system kicks up, your your capillaries uh shrink, so your blood pressure goes up.

Um, then you start getting into this whole autoimmune pro uh reaction. And when you get an autoim autoimmune reaction and your body is trying to fight something, it doesn't know what it is because it doesn't actually it can't understand what this energy or this thing is coming into your body, but it could affect your autoimmune responses affect your your heart valves um to the point where after a certain period of time they could develop a murmur. So when I heard that, I said, "Yeah, that that's definite." Because then I said, "At this point, he definitely got something into his body that the that body just did not understand and it caused this reaction." So that's when I said, "That's pretty genuine what was happened to him." >> Wow. So you've seen these heart murmurss before. >> Yeah, we have several people that actually went away.

And in fact, there's a great study right now that I'm working on with another another scientist where we're relating people that have these experiences with onset of autoimmune diseases that they're they're having. One of them actually, you know, leads to problems with the the cardiac system. So, yes, I I've I've seen a lot of this. >> I mean, there's no there's no suggestion there that the energy that's caused these injuries is being intentionally applied. I mean, do you get the feeling it's like an incidental consequence of exposure to an object that might not be intentional? Or do you think that we're being the people that are being zapped are being deliberately zapped? No, I think it's actually, to be honest with you, I think something is trying to communicate with them.

I think somebody's trying to give them something intelligent. Some people can interpret it, some people can't. Some people just think it's like, "Oh my god, what's going on? I got a headache." Um, the other people actually say, "Oh, I just got a message from somebody or I feel about this thing." Um Jake actually actually said you know he felt great. He he felt like all of a sudden he felt like amazing. I think that might be the message.

So you know you're standing in the path of some kind of communication that we don't understand from some type of entity we don't understand what it does to our outside body leaves lesions. It leaves marks. It leaves some you know medical footprints. What it does to our internal body it gives us I you know it gives us feelings and it makes us interpret things. in our brain, our particular brains um try to rationalize everything.

So you end up feeling amazing or you feel scared or you feel, you know, so what happened to Jake is definitely something that somebody was trying to give him information. So let's roll back a little bit. I mean, I I think when I first met Jake, the the biggest issue I had with his story was not actually the issue of the United States government secretly being involved in retrieving non-human intelligence spacecraft. I I I think I can cope with that. The the the the big thing for me that I found very confronting and it's taken me two years to come to terms with it is this idea of psychic or psionic engagement by human consciousness with some kind of nonhuman technology.

Uh we don't even know if it is a technology. We don't know if these craft so-called are craft. They look like craft. But can you even begin to try to explain to us what what's going on there? Are you familiar at all with the idea of the human mind making a connection with some kind of non-human phenomenon like that? >> Yeah. So I think it it's a conclusion at this point that whatever this is is not a radiation source.

It is a it is a information source that actually happens to be absorbed by your body in a rad look that looks like radiation. But I think primary is that whatever this is is trying to communicate to you. And so I've done a study over the past three or four years uh through the institute with Hal Buto where we've actually put people in a situation where they were in areas that have UFOs or have UAPs present and we took their narratives out and also looked at the surrounding signals around them and sure enough they always claimed and their their narrative state that you know I felt like I was being instructed to do something or I felt like I was being told that I shouldn't be doing something or I was told that something is amazing and having an a wonderful period. Um they would go sometimes into a catatonic state where they would wake up hours later um feel amazing or or just feel completely drained sometimes and you know feel that they've been in contact with something. So what what Jacob was actually describing is not something that's unique to him.

What's unique to him is that the object that made this happen was right next to him. And that was actually quite revealing. So had you heard the t term psionic before? I have in in sense of a science science fiction type of thing where you know people can communicate and there's telepathy and things like that and it has a bad stigma to it where people say oh you know you're just a bunch of crazies thinking you could do telepathy but everybody I think that if you talk to guys like Gary Nolan and things like that they'll claim that everybody has some form of ability to reach outside of their mind and connect with other things. I think that nature in itself if we had this little bit of ability to go outside of our mind it would definitely evolve it and make it part of our you know initial being because that helps in our fight flight type of reactions. So, can you talk at all to the science that might be behind how the human brain, human consciousness could possibly engage, if it's real, with a nonhuman intelligence of some kind? >> Sure.

We have I mean, if you think of what our brain is, it's a it it is like a a big ion moving uh machine where you have the all these ions. What ions are is these charged particles that move through your body. And anytime you have a charged particle, it could be affected by outside sources. And but what's interesting, a charged particle, these particles could be entangled with other particles that might not be local to them. It might be outside of their head.

It might be on the other o other side of the earth. But we know for a fact that things like that, these particles get entangled. So if you have a neuron and that neuron happens to fire and that maybe that neuron fires and it says, "Oh, you're looking at a flower right now, but that neuron is attached to or entangled with somebody else that has a different feeling or an entity that might be able to control that. They have this like initial blast to you. You might say, "Oh, look at look at that flower, but there's no flower there." So there's this entanglement going on between, you know, neurons and brains and all of these ions that are flowing in your head.

But I guess what I have difficulty with, I mean, it does sound like science fiction. And the interesting thing is if if it's true, if what Jake is saying is true, the US Air Force never stopped operating the Stargate program. I mean, you talked about Hal Putoff there. I mean, of course, one of our friends, Hal, was long ago in the 1970s through SRRI involved in groundbreaking research with people like you. >> Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. >> Looking at the whole issue of telepathy and psychic phenomena. My understanding is that um and of course this has been made into a Hollywood movie, the George Clooney movie, The Men Who Stare at Goats. My understanding is that um the whole thing was poo pooed and um and played down.

But what really shocked me when I started doing the background research for this story, I looked at the history of the CIA's Stargate program and even presidents at the time, President Carter for example, were acknowledging that that there had been successful use of things like remote viewing technology to assist in the in the recovery of an aircraft. In one case, um it does appear that while you've got the official position in in modern science is that telepathy, psychic phenomena, that kind of uh non-local engagement of the human mind with something external. It it's dismissed as nonsense. And yet, it's quite clear if you look at the succession of documents in the CIA archive, they've continued that research over many many years. They never stopped.

Uh, is this something you're familiar with? What do you what do you know about the whole science of the idea that the human brain could possibly engage with something outside of the human brain other than just normal verbal or written communication. So ironically um in Hal I worked for Hal in his institute in Austin for 11 years and one of the experiments that he asked me to do was he said if I took two sentient objects and I separate them and I actually I'm sorry if I took two sentient objects and I had them together for a little while and then I separated them and I and I convince the other ones that there there is no physical connection like I put them in a Faraday cage. I put a barrier and I do something sinister to one of them, will the other one react? Or if I do something really nice to one of them, will the other one react? So, we took um epolus um cells and we, you know, put them together and they let let them entangle, separated them, and maybe we we put a little um you know, some Clorox or something bad into one of them. And after enough trials, we found out that we can get two cells to communicate through through a barrier through either a Faraday cage meaning that there's no electro electromagnetic signals or you know we had them enclosed or there's no chemical signal, no firmians or anything. Um but we got them to communicate.

We had enough statistics to show that there was actually a communication. So that's suggesting that there is something about sentient life, including intelligent human life, that has a capacity to communicate that we don't yet understand. I'm just wondering, it's a long shot, but have you watched or listened to the telepathy tapes at all, which is this new >> I did not I've been I've been advised to I they they said it was very interesting and um and I what I'd like to do is I like to kind of stay more down into the to the actual, you know, how the mechanisms that happen as opposed to how people are actually implementing this great science. It's funny, you know, because when I first got into the Jake story, it's a bit like alien abductions. I don't for the life of me know how to report the alle the allegations of alien abductions.

And it's one of those stories that I don't stay away from it because there are many good people I'm talking to who tell me it's happened to them, but for the life of me, I don't know how to report it. And and similarly with the allegations of psionic or psychic phenomena being behind how we are flying actually operating in some cases or or perhaps remotely controlling these craft or at least communicating with them that that has implications which are absolutely extraordinary. Um but from what you're telling me you wouldn't rule it out as a possibility. >> No. So the mechanism I I think that we can definitely say that it happens.

What the actual underlying mechanism is it entanglement? Are we is our ion channels being entangled? That we don't know because we've never actually been able to isolate that. It's a more of a hypothesis. >> Do you find it plausible that sections of the defense and intelligence community could have secretly worked on psychic phenomena like this? I mean the the implications of this are that there are people psychic sonionicists as they call them who are working secretly with the US government. I'm told allegedly a lot of them are people of indigenous Native American background. Do you find it even plausible a secret like that could be kept in this day and age? uh that's you know I have spent a lot of time in the government and it's like everything is um you know isolated and there's a lot of pockets within the uh the agencies that do special projects and I know that I've been on some with the DARPA um initiatives and things like that where you don't talk about this with anybody.

So I would believe that there are these projects out there that might be looking at this though but you know do they metriculate up to the top? I don't know. And have you ever heard stories of a retrieval program of nonhuman craft yourself during your work with Bass or Osap? >> Sure. With Hal, I mean Hal, that's what he spent 15 years trying to do is get the technology. So he he been, you know, I went with him to Congress. um you know and I sat there in meetings with him trying to explain to the people the Senate Armed Service Committee and those kind of committees uh what we're we're trying to do and trying to get some of these items because that's what Hal's lab was all set up to do was was to investigate this.

So yeah, we I've been in uh watched Hal frustratingly trying to get a hold of this stuff. >> What do you think is going to come out of Jake Barber's allegations? You've seen the story. What what do you think will be the blowback the the the result? >> Well, I think the government's going to have to step back and say, look, you know, I think this stuff is starting to look a little real because now you've got a guy who we put somebody put in harm's way. They and actually had the same type of ailments that you would see for all the other claims that are of anomalous uh origins. Uh but now this guy was actually recorded inside of a vehicle with something that he didn't understand underneath him and had very similar symptoms as uh you would get if if um you know all the the millions of claims that are out there in the world.

One of the other things about Jake's experience particularly when he had some kind of psychical connection with the phenomenon is an overwhelming emotion a strong sense of emotional engagement. Are you familiar with that? Have you had that before from other witnesses? >> Oh, yeah. So, again, we had this very, very long, very detailed study where we basically had, you know, you know, well over 30 people on a day-to-day basis giving their interpretations of what they're going through on a day-to-day on their during their day. And a lot of the reports came back, you know, some some very sinister, some very euphoric, but it was all about the connection they had to some other thing. So there is this this this narrative that people stick to where they do get very very emotional and when your body receives information that it really doesn't understand because it is kind of a scary if you think about it.

Nobody's talking to you. I mean some people get ringing in the ears and and sometimes they their eyes get blurry because it affects your optical nerves. Uh but it's a scary thing sometimes. But, you know, the fallacy that it's always this sinister mean thing is very false because more than half the time the reports come back and and it's euphoric and they're very very happy about it. You know, they've had a very good time.

It's very awakening. They learn things. They learned other languages, believe it or not. I mean, so this is something that I've had a lot of experience with thousands of of narratives from people and they all sounded very much like what Jacob was talking about. So you're saying that people have learned other languages.

What does that mean? >> So there was quite a few um instances where they actually started doing some writings um through so they go into they would go into a state. They would wake up you know like several hours later look down and they've written this like entire document that they have no idea what they wrote. They would bring it to like a linguist and say, you know, what the heck is this? And find out it's an ancient language that they would have never idea uh never had an idea of what they could never learn that. >> Do you know it's funny? I I suspect the skeptics and the debunkers will will have a field day with the whole idea of psychical connections with non-human intelligence and they'll mock it. You're not so quick as a scientist.

You're a hard-nosed scientist who's seen this paranormal phenomena up close. >> You think it's real, don't you? >> Well, it's I'm not saying it's real. What I'm saying is that whatever is happening to these people is not a um is is some information coming into their head in some form that we don't understand and their brain is interpreting it. It's not something that they're making up in their head. They're not being psychic within themselves.

They're getting some signal from the outside. there's no way that these people have all these reactions and of course we put equipment on the on their bodies and then we record things and then we find out during these episodes where they have these encounters there are changes in the electromagnetic signals the gamma signals all these signals in their presence indicating that something some vector you know a vector something is coming into their body to give them this information. There's just been very recently, of course, an extensive investigation into alleged anomalous health incidents involving defense and intelligence personnel who've been exposed to >> um phenomena. Nobody quite knows where it's coming from. And it follows years of resistance from the defense department to the whole idea that there are any real physical injuries.

And it's obvious that there's been dissent within government about what the public should be told or whether any admissions should be made at all. But I mean, do you find it plausible that Jake's injuries for example or the injuries of the people that you've seen could have been caused by a foreign adversary using direct energy any direct energy weapons of some kind. >> Yeah. So if you go back to the Havana syndrome, obviously that's a big thing where you had people that were in a contained area and they had symptoms very very similar to the symptoms that you would see from somebody out in the in the world, you know, just interacting with some phenomena where they would have earaches, they would have nose bleeds, they would have all of these symptoms that are very very similar to what you're finding. um if you put them through MRIs, they have very similar types of lesions in their head that get developed just like people get when they're you know they're they're out here.

So this is um you know this you know just because you know it happens to a government agency doesn't mean that it's necessarily from a foreign entity. It could be something that we're all experiencing, everybody's experiencing but it just happened to be concentrated there. So when it comes down to actually investigating these things, I think they starting to take a little bit better picture of it and go ahead Ros. Well, I was just wondering I was just wondering if the explanation for these Havana syndrome anom anomalous health incidents might be that it's something anomalous rather than a foreign adversary. >> Well, if you look at the National Academy of Sciences report that came out that explained that and there was an actually another better report that came out afterwards.

They said it was electromagnetic in nature, some some radiation beam from some entity, and they said unknown entity. And they actually said, I don't think they actually said that it was ever going to be from some foreign weapon or something like that. They just said, "I don't know what the origin is, but it was definitely this." Okay. Okay. So, if I take away what you've said to us today, Jim, whilst you're not saying it's real, you don't dismiss outright the idea of a psychical engagement by the human brain with some kind of nonhuman technology if it exists.

No, because it we're, you know, I've seen so many patients that get this instruction, they get this communication from the outside world. We read signals that something just happened. We don't know what it is. they interpret it as a in a certain way and they report it instantly. They say, you know, I just had this premonition.

I just saw this thing. And then we get these uh data coming from our our instruments to say, yeah, something actually was present. The exciting thing I'll tell you about the implications of Jake Barber's Skywatcher initiative that he talked about in the show is >> they are now collaborating with the Pentagon's UFO office, Arrow. And uh I I can reveal that that Arrow has expressed an interest in accompanying the Skywatcher team on one of their attempted summonings of a UAP. And uh I wouldn't be surprised at all if they're there on one of the first experiments.

And I I have to say it reflects a a refreshing openness on the part of the new ARO director, Dr. John Kosowski, who unlike his predecessor, Dr. Shan Kirkpatrick, is showing a genuine scientific curiosity. A bit like you, Jim Seagala. Maybe we should get you along on the same thing as well.

>> Sure. >> Well, something tells me, Dr. Jim Seagala that as a scientist who's showing a commendable curiosity and actually doing the work to make an assessment of what's really there, you're way ahead of the pack. So, thank you so much for giving us your wisdom and um we'll look forward to talking to you in the future. >> Thank you very much, Ross.

Welcome back to Reality Check and this week in our continuing series of interviews with people who featured in our UAP crash retrieval story, Don Paul Bales. He's another of the interviewees with an impeccable military service history who backed the credentials of our primary interviewe in that story, Jake Barber, who served at the elite of the US military. Mr. Bales has 25 years combined service in military and law enforcement. He served with the 82nd Airborne, the US Army's elite specialist parachute assault airborne infantry division.

And he also served with the US Air Force. And as he tells me in this fulllength interview, he met Jake Barber in 1996 and soon realized very early on that Jake was far more than the aircraft mechanic described in his service history. He confirms Barber was diverted from his tier 1 combat control training into a covert intelligence role. Crucially, Don Paul Bales also later worked as a member of Jake Barber's team on the range. The he corroborates the work they did and the anomalous phenomena they witnessed there.

He was also present when Barber confronted a senior executive with the private aerospace company that had deployed them on the operation that went bad. Here's Don Paul Bales. [Music] So Don Don Paul Bates, thank you so much for joining us. Can you just tell me a little bit about yourself? Um, I've got a kind of interesting backstory. I've done 25 years combined service military and law enforcement.

Grew up in Arkansas and uh I now running an MMA gym. I've done so for about a decade since I left being a full-time police officer. Um, and uh that's about it. >> Okay. So, when did you first meet Jake Barber? uh 1996 when I was serving at um Fort Bragg, North Carolina with the 82nd Airborne Division.

>> Now, we're constrained because of your doses about the units that you were working for. We can't specifically name them, but basically you were both working as special operations elite soldiers. Yeah, I was with the 82nd and prior to my service with the Army, I was with the Air Force and I met Jacob in that official capacity. And soon after we met, I started finding out that he was involved in different levels of service beyond the topical surface units that he appeared to be a member of. So yes, >> so Jack Barber tells us that he was essentially diverted out of what was the normal track program for a combat controller.

Normally, I guess he might have been put into say something like Delta Force or >> um one of the elite US Air Force >> uh groups, but he ended up getting diverted, he says, into a covert role. >> Yes. >> With an intelligence agency that we're not going to name? >> Yes. >> You can confirm that? >> Yes, I can. >> Are you happy to share, if necessary, your DD214 with us to give us an idea about your >> my DD214? Oh, yes.

Uh I'll have two. One from the Air Force, one from the Army. >> Right. And so there's no question at all in your mind that Jake Barber is the person that he says he is and he's had the service that he says he's had. >> Yes.

Served with him and also been close friends for decades. >> The DD214, the release document, discharge document for Jake Barber, though it only shows him as being an aerospace mechanic. >> Mhm. >> Doesn't that mean that that's not the case? When you're recruiting someone for programs that exist outside of public knowledge, uh, and you're going to have them acting in ways, moving around, their their capacity needs to be verifiable, explainable in a more mundane way. And at first when I first met him, I thought the same thing that he was simply a matter of a conventional military unit.

Come to find out that was not the case. However, working in that capacity is a perfect cover story for the things he was actually doing for the unnamed three-letter agency. >> So, he's not just an aircraft. >> No, he's not just an aircraft mechanic. >> It's a great cover.

>> Mhm. >> Let's talk about Jake Barber and his character as a human being. You guys, I know in special operations, you're often in some tough situations. You have to rely on each other. Is Jake per barber a person who you would trust? >> Oh yes.

Uh he's a person I would and have trusted with my life >> if he says something which he said to us. He's made extremely detailed allegations and comments to us about the program. >> Mhm. >> Can we take it to the bank that what he is telling us is true? >> Absolutely. And the capacity I worked for Jacob was unique from the other people involved with the program.

um he's in a leadership role as you'll find out interviewing me. I served in a pretty particular way for that program, but having both a military and extensive law enforcement background, I've seen extensive credentials that he maintained and credentials he was even issued at specific points in time to accomplish specific things. These are not credentials that can be fabricated artificially, per se. Um, and given having worked within law enforcement and military communities, I've seen orders. I've seen credentials.

He is a highly credible person who has functioned on multiple levels within covert operations. >> What do you think of his morals, his ethics? Oh, in my opinion, the very fact that he's coming forward in the way that he is is exemplary of his character because many people who come forward to disclose have their character assassinated. Um, it puts their well-being in jeopardy on a lot of levels. There are people who've lost their lives. Uh, there's people who've lost their careers.

Luckily, I think Jacob is smarter than the average bear. He is a very um he's a very diverse person that he's functioned both within his capacity in the covert community, but he's also a very successful entrepreneur. He has made a a small fortune for himself with multiple businesses he owns and operates. And since you asked about his character, when you have a comfortable life and everything to lose and nothing to gain, I do believe that there's been some crackpots and people come forward over the years because they're seeking fame and fortune. He has fortune and no need for fame.

>> What do you think about his decision to be a whistleblower on what's been going on inside the crash retrieving program? I think he's um very strategically wise in his timing because there have been people who've been involved with the program he's involved with that have lost their lives. And I think at this point it is a good inoculation to any nefarious actions against him to come forward and share what he knows. And there's enough people now whose pedigree within government, within the military, very high-ranking officers, multiple special operations service members, there's actually a small army of people coming forward. And I think that he feels compelled to support these people who are being attacked professionally and personally. And it's a good defense for himself, I believe, and it's in defense of the greater good and the truth of this.

It's this important time in history. and I think he feels compelled to do what he's doing. >> I've often said that the story of the suppression of the existence of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet is the biggest story in human history. >> Oh yes. >> Do you agree with that? >> I do.

Um I'm not an overtly religious person, but I believe strongly in God. I'm a patriot. I believe strongly in my country. That doesn't mean I believe in my government. I believe in the founding principles of our community and our country.

I believe in our country's people. But I believe that there are bad actors. When I swore an oath to defend our country, it was against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. And I think some of the greatest enemies that we have, unfortunately, are bad actors within the deep state that are preventing, let's just say, the growth of humanity, the maturing of humanity in the context of some things that most of us know now. Others will instinctively and fundamentally doubt.

But the times coming well that will not be an option. There'll be too much. It's like drinking through a water hose at this point. The amount of imagery, the amount of whistleblowers. Um I think that we're coming to a quickening in history.

>> You sent a shiver up my spine when you talked about swearing an oath >> because there's article one of the US Constitution. You understand, don't you? >> I do. >> What does article one of the US Constitution enshrine? >> Well, the legislative branch in particular is supposed to have oversight over all activities that are done in the name of our country and the furtherance of its interests, its protection against uh threats in particular, the way we spend our money. There's there's massive amounts of money that are so big that when the average citizen hear that the defense department can't account for billions of dollars or more, they're like, "Wow, that's crazy." And they just go about their daily lives. The fact that members of our own government have not been read in or advised of the truth of these things, that presidents are referred to as temporary employees.

That's not just immoral. It's unconstitutional. It's not lawful. It's not the best interest of our communities and our countries. >> Can I just tell you, Dom, I just had a sense then that what you just said was historic.

>> I don't think anybody's ever said that before. >> Well, it's it's unfortunate because I worry I'm very much a family man. Love my wife and children more than anything. Uh, and our country is historically position to set this standard for personal freedoms. Our constitution was developed in a feudal time in history.

We've been a warlike people at war with each other since the beginning of recorded history. And we wanted to create a government of the people and for the people. And in so doing, the founding fathers had the wherewithal to create checks and balances to prevent the very sort of things that we see happening now. And those checks and balances from your knowledge of what's going on are not working. >> No, they're not working.

Uh former president warned us the single greatest threat to our country was the development of the military-industrial complex. Well, I half agree you need to have a strong military-industrial complex to defend your country. Um but when that very organization is promoting wars for the sake of wars withholding important technology in the context of this interview advanced technology that uh is reverse engineered from extraterrestrial technology you could literally change the lives of every American citizen and we're a standard bearer for the world. If these things were brought forward and shared, it would be life-changing. And instead of worrying about my children's future, I would know that whenever my time comes, there's a brighter tomorrow.

There's a lot of things and people standing in the way of that. >> Um, let's go through the detail. >> Okay. >> When you were in the services before you got involved with Jacob Barber? >> Yes. >> What did you even think about UFOs, UAPs? kind of grew up like most of well I say most I was one of the kids that was into science fiction.

One of the first movies I saw as a kid was Star Wars watch Star Trek but beyond the pop culture thing you know I was just as into you know Hot Wheels and G.I. Joe and Transformers. Other than the popular culture notion I did like a British show Doctor Who when I was a kid. I thought all that was very cool. Um, but beyond pop culture and science fiction, I hadn't thought much much of it until after my military service, after meeting Jacob, you know, I've always thought that it's a big universe.

The idea that we're all there is, I don't think is that's mathematically beyond an outlier. I think it's impossible, not just improbable. But I haven't had much interest beyond just the passing interest in science fiction. Is there a moment when you discovered for the first time that we are not alone as humans? >> I will say this before I began doing some of the things I have done for Jacob and before I saw some of the things I saw I had a predisposition to think it's probably true but I don't know. But when you witness things, you know, like there's a lot of imagery that's out there now, it's been out for years of craft, UAP, used to be UFO, whatever you want to call it, that move in ways which defy normal flight characteristics and physics.

But the problem is we exist in a day and age of movies and CGI and you could see stuff and that's that's not believing. Even the things I've seen myself at range becoming directly knowledgeable about the programs and what it can mean. There's this is this extraterrestrial or advanced technology. Is it reverse engineered human technology? And that presents a unique threat to us as a nation. I don't believe we have a we have a government that does a lot of good and noble things under defense.

We have bad actors. I think the same is true of other countries too. So when you start to see and experience things firsthand, it matures your understanding like oh there is something beyond this here. Even if the things I saw initially were at, there's nothing that is publicly known which can explain the flight characteristic. At least go back, you know, you can watch shows, documentaries, it's a longstanding fact that they're observable phenomenons that cannot be explained.

But when you start to see it and then you get involved with people who are directly responsible with the cover crash recovery and other things and understand the weaponization of these things that is all too human of a thing and I think once you experience it it's not like this awesome oh wow this is all realist well what are we going to do with this like splitting the atom you know >> can I just explore with you there's obviously been a very successful cover For decades, we've all been taught, most people watching this, I think, think that UFOs, UAPs are complete rubbish. >> Yeah, that's the default. I think it's a self-defense mechanism of human psychology. Uh it is much easier to think that everybody that talks about this is crazy than accept the fact that A we're not alone in the universe. B UAPs are real and uh what does that mean for us? Are they a risk to us? Are they some ways an asset that could create a brighter tomorrow? I think that both are likely true.

But for most people, it's easier just to say, "Ah, that's a bunch of crazy people. That's fake. It's not real." It's kind of a default self-defense mechanism. And when you combine with that bad actors within certain levels of government, they can fuel that by throwing out disinformation. Uh they can paint people who are honest and exposing what they've seen.

You see everybody from high level military operators to mundane people, school children seeing things by the dozens. It's very easy to explain things away with lies when people's default reaction is doubt anyway. >> To your knowledge, have people been killed to protect this? >> Yes, they have. >> That's horrific. >> It is horrific and it's evil and it's unlawful.

>> I'm just pondering for a moment the significance of that. people who presumably wanted the secret to be told. >> Well, I I hate to say it, but again, as much as I love my country, there have been times where we have done things that in hindsight were not just wrong, but they were morally reprehensible. And unfortunately, people have been killed for much lesser reasons than something as significant as this. And if you think about the amount of profit that can be leveraged against this technology, unfortunately, there's that old biblical idea, man cannot serve both God and mammon.

Well, when there's so much profit at stake, it is unfortunately not surprising to me that people have been killed to cover up which particular elements of government, which particularly uh commercial entities have access to this technology, uh biologics. I I think it's unfortunately very easy to understand that people will be killed because the amount of profit involved. >> One of the problems I think the mistakes that we in the media often make is we tend to see the military or the intelligence community as one big monolith that all thinks the same way. I've been quite struck, not just because I've met you guys, >> by the number of people who have contacted me from within the legacy program for years, >> deeply concerned at the fact that this is being kept secret. >> Yes.

Well, you have to think also going all the way back to the development of the atomic bomb, there's an instinct within the intelligence community to compartmentalize knowledge and access to evidence and documents because the single best way to the single best way to make someone appear to be um lying or in some way crazy is you don't give them the tools they need to prove even people I believe you've interviewed Lou Alzando there are other people have come forward David Grush if you can compartmentalize it to the point that they cannot present the evidence because again you could watch stuff on your phone now uh that looks real and it's something somebody made up with software the easiest way to maintain this idea that this is all rubbish I believe is the term you would um is just when you have everybody compartmentalized, but those same people know what they've seen. They know what they've done. They have seen evidence. They have taken in uh and in this case been involved with crash recovery activity. And then you add to that, okay, there's not just this great lie being told to our countrymen, but their patriotic brothers and sisters have died in the service of it.

and at the end of the day they're called liars and they try to discredit and debunk them. That's a deeply painful thing for people like my friend Jacob who's literally given decades of his life in service of this. >> Ultimately what you're assessing there is that Jacob's being the true patriot honoring the terms of your constitution. >> He is uh well again love for one's country does not mean love for one's government. I'm sure we can all pick politician on both sides of the aisle that we think did great things for our nation and some that we think were horrible bad actors.

The truth is most are human beings and they've done both good and bad things. I was a big fan of Reagan. You could list a number of things he did which were crucial to what we're discussing now. You could also describe actions that he took that some would consider villainous. No one individual is either fully good or bad.

So now, like you said, it's not a monolithic one entity. There's organizations within organizations that may be performing similar functions that don't even know the other actors exist. And that that creates quite a bit of risk. >> Obviously, there may be weapons that could be developed or um >> maybe is a word. >> Yeah.

Technologies that could be developed from this alien technology. And as I say the word alien, my head explodes with the implications of what we're talking about here. We're talking about nonhuman intelligences. >> Intelligent beings from somewhere else. >> Yes.

>> And we have their technology. >> That's what we're saying here. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> It's mind-blowing.

>> It is. >> What do you say to the people watching this who are going, I I don't believe this. Well, I saw a meme that says something about conspiracy theorists are doing pretty good right now in terms of everything that we say within five or 10 years you're considered ridiculous and then you're vindicated when something comes down range. It is more and more and this is the big thing. It's got to be tangible evidence that can be given to credible evaluators of tangible evidence because imagery alone is not enough anymore.

uh even testimony, you're just going to have one person after another discredited and that doubt reflex will kick in from whomever is viewing. But when things get to a point where so much information is coming forward and it can be supplemented with tangible evidence, there'll come a time when you can no longer deny it. Um and again I fear that disclosure there are those who want to disclose for very good and noble reasons and those who want to disclose I think for evil and nefarious reasons. Similarly I think some who have kept it hidden feel like they're being compelled to do so by good and moral reasons. Some have kept it hidden for very evil reasons.

So you have a very complicated issue and I think it's exactly what you said Mr. Colart. It's it's literally going to change humanity's we will never view our place in the universe the same again and it'll be the most significant event in human history >> and it's happening >> it is right now it is happening right now. >> So is there one moment that you can tell me about when you've seen this technology for yourself for the first time? >> Honestly, it's kind of not that big a deal. Uh seeing them in the distance is one thing.

H I'll tell you one that aggravates me because I didn't see it when my cohorts did and it's one that exists outside of DOPS review because we're now moving into a stage where I'm functioning as the same asset I've been but publicly for an organization that's being funded publicly. Uh some of the members of my team saw an object pass directly over my entry comp control point on a site I was at and it was at such a range and I was like man so I'm here facing this direction and the thing passes over me in a direction I didn't see. It's not the ones I see that are cool. It's a feeling of being left out of the one that I can publicly discuss which is quite irrit ir irritating. >> So what types of craft have you se have you seen the egg? The egg was the one.

This last one. I'm going to go back in a time period which is not. And and I'll say this too. Part of what I did for Jacob is I uh performed a lot of peripheral duties, movement of people and things. Uh something as mundane as I have a hazmat driver's license.

Um I protected uh people and things and moved people and things. But I'm not a pilot. uh my function on the team again I have communicated with uh high level security officials on behalf of and with Jacob direct communications is dangerous because people have lost their lives and it's probably more my law enforcement background where I became a good asset to Jacob and still am than my military background. Jacob is kind of hard because he's also my close friend and he's risking quite a bit to do this. >> I was surprised but not surprised.

surprised because the risk, not surprised because of his character. >> It takes an act of courage, doesn't it? >> Oh, it does. And he has more to lose. Ros, he's a businessman and a very wealthy businessman, very creative entrepreneur. He's into music.

He has a beautiful family, uh, a lot of interests outside of this, literally risking everything. And he's not the average citizen. Uh, the fame is not going to be an asset to him. Let's talk about >> psychics. >> I hadn't even heard that word until about two years ago.

>> It's crazy, isn't it? >> There was a scientist in the program who said to me that if I needed to understand what was going on, I needed to understand consciousness. >> Yes. >> And it's true, isn't it? This is consciousness. >> Well, I've had the pleasure of meeting multiple sonic assets. I've seen them function.

I know that they're capable of doing what they're doing. And this is funny. I told you about the incident that I was present for that's happened since the the classified stuff, but that's completely public. And that that brings me to a funny story. Um, so Fred and other members of the team see this thing.

So Gary has the psionic acids doing their thing. Jacob's over there eating some food and I'm watching all this going, "This is very cool. This is very interesting. This is great." Because the proximity because of my normal duties. I'm right there ready to rock, you know.

So, I go down my entry control point and I come back and everybody's all, "Oh my god." Then Fred tells me and they're going through all this. Uh, and then so I'm flying back to my normal life and I'm sitting in a airport, you know, having a drink and I start getting all these information. There was a massive amount of reportings on social media and the immediate proximity of the work of the psionics. Now the uh dog whistle the science-based I would say the technology technology based way of communicating with NHI and UAPs is one thing but the psionics man it was the amount of activity in the area immediately proximal to what we were doing was amazing even for me. >> So you can definitively say that you believe there is a capacity in the human mind to somehow psychically telepathically connect with >> Yes.

And Dr. Nolan's done a good job. I don't understand. I'm not even going to try to use the anatomical part of the brain because I mess it up every time I try to say it, but there's physiological signs that can be measured. Dr.

Nolan's quite good at this. And I don't know if it's a byproduct if it's something that they were born with or is a is a response to interaction with if it's a product of communication in some way that they were chosen and communicated with or if it's something that they were born with and it's a a genetic or congenital trait. But there is certain people who are quantifiably verifiably capable of this. I I think a lot of people watching this might be able to come to terms with the idea of there being aliens, >> non-human intelligence. >> I do think a lot of people are going to have trouble with the concept of psychic abilities being real.

I mean, we've all been told for years that psychic abilities are fiction. It's nonsense. >> Again, that doubt is the even religion doubting Thomas. Doubt seems to be the default mechanism until you've seen it or experienced I believe that's probably the psychologically safer way to view things. But having seen it actually function as one thing but the amount of activity by all social media is a funny thing because you know if we say that this incident occurred that's one thing but if you go back and you see people all around a geographic area starting to report and see things the old I'm from the country the old saying the proof is in the pudding.

when you see these things manifest a response from UAPs. Well, is that a coincidence? Given the size of physical size of our our own galaxy and solar system alone, the likelihood that that is not a direct reaction to an overt attempt to communicate, I think, is just as unlikely. >> It's exciting. >> It is exciting. It's kind of interesting.

Very interesting. >> It's spiritual in a way. >> It is. I believe it's very spiritual. I mean, I I'm not a good enough scholar to reference it, but there are things biblically which refer to wheels in the sky and such in history.

You've seen images and paintings and things that kind of hint that this has been something that mankind's been aware of since even before recorded history as we know it. >> Are you a man of faith? Do you believe in God? >> I am. I'm a Christian by definition. Do you find the concept of believing that aliens are real and that we can psychically engage with them? Do you find that contradictory to your belief in God or >> No. Now, some of my I'd say believing brothers and sisters, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Jew, or some other faith, I think they may find it anothetical.

But to me, that's a knee-jerk opposite reaction. If you think about a a god as a prime mover, a creator of the universe, to think that a universe that we now know through modern science, I think we have something being stood up next year in 2025 that will be one of the most powerful ways to view our universe that we've seen uh in our history. We know that we have a very expansive universe. To think that we have and Christians believe, Muslims believe, Jews believe that we have a creator of the universe. To create this much space for one self-aware species seems to be like a lot of waste of space.

>> It's an arrogance really. >> It is. It's ubris. >> So, let's talk about the concerning things that happened during your work with Jake. You and Jake were tasked to recover what you guys refer to as high-v value targets.

And they were six Panasonic tough books. And we don't know for sure what was on those tough books, do we? But it may have been video. It may have been some kind of data. But the company, the private aerospace company that we're not naming that you were working for in that particular job, it wanted those books back. >> Yes.

And technically I did not work for them. I worked for Jacob. You would refer to me as a subcontract employee. >> Right. So what happened? >> I'm not going to discuss any of that.

I've not been reviewed. My activities have not been reviewed by Dobster. >> Can you confirm this? Were you involved in any of the retrieval attempts? >> Yes. >> And I'm not out of respect for Jake going to go into the detail of what happened, but I I'm aware that a dangerous incident occurred. Let's leave it at that.

Um, a concern arose, didn't it, in your group, in your team, >> that as a subcontractor, your whole operation was plausibly deniable? >> Yes. >> Was there a concern that you were being set up potentially? >> Yes. Setup is a mild term. You touched on earlier the fact that people have lost their lives involved in this type of activity and the links to which people have gone to suppress politically uncomfortable truths let alone worldchanging facts is such that there is risk involved and because I'm a unique element in service of Jacob and the overarching program unlike the others I've been present when we've attempted to make direct contact with superiors within program to clarify exactly what's going on and to find to get to a place where we felt comfortable within the context of what we were doing became more and more difficult. >> Both of you came away.

I won't name the private aerospace company involved, but I think Jake spoke to the director of security for a private aerospace company. >> Yes. And neither of you came away with the sense that you were getting a straight answer. >> No, we spoke with more than one individual at a very high level of authority. And I don't know what Jacob said, but I'll tell you this, and I say this based on my law enforcement background, too.

When the people who are supposed to be at the highest levels are afraid to discuss what you're doing, that's a clue. when they are worried about their well-being and the well-being of their families. And I'm talking about as high up the food chain as the public would be aware of these food chains within these unnamed organizations. When those people are afraid for their physical wellbeing and their families and say the smartest thing you can do is to let this go, don't ask questions, walk away. When they're afraid, then there's cause for concern.

>> Who's running this cover up? >> Oh, that's a good question. I mean, there's incredible power behind what we're seeing here. Somebody's pulling the strings. >> Well, you you touched on this earlier, Ross, that there's likely more than one program. So, there's likely multiple coverups.

If there's more than one organization within our government, let alone other governments. If there are organizations which are controlled not by the government proper but by private industry that operate at a high level and that recruit and contract legacy assets within the government's programs. Everyone imagine something more valuable than oil, more valuable than any precious metal, something that could potentially be the most valuable technology in the history of mankind. How much time and money would they invest in trying to collect that? Okay. Then now you have multiple private organizations, multiple government entities, all of them that may be existing sometimes in cooperation but often not compartmentalized.

So you don't just have one cover up. You have a culture that is inherently invested in making sure that what they're doing is not known because you don't want competition within industry or foreign adversaries. The default response of multiple entities would be to try to hide everything. Deny, deny, deny. >> Can you think of any good reason why I can accept we perhaps in the public just like we don't we shouldn't know how to make nuclear weapons.

I can accept there might be technologies that might be quite dangerous from alien technology, but in and of itself, can you think of any good reason why the public can't know that we are not alone? >> Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate and say yes because I have a service background. Our economy is based on natural resources. Oil being a prime example. It's like hydraulic despotism. The value of an economy is based on your ability to acquire a particular thing.

What if, as some have speculated, uh, technology existed to recruit energy right out of the ambient surrounding environment? >> We know that true, don't we? >> Yes. Well, okay. >> 0 point energy. >> If you have zero point energy, what is the basis for the global economy? >> Everything of value instantly disappears. So now you have this war for control of that technology.

So for one thing, it would fundamentally destabilize the economy entire of the entire world. That's a thing. Now we have nuclear weapons already. We have foreign adversaries that have hypersonic weapons and we're supposedly behind them. That's not the case.

We all have hypersonic weapons. Okay. And now imagine a weapon that can fire a device so fast you can't even measure it by the standard concept of acceleration of a solid rocket fuelbased weapon. If you could fire and you talked about my faith, there are people who have very radical views of this world and God who want to wipe their enemies off the face of the earth. Would you want to put a propulsion system in the hands of those people if they could with the touch of a button annihilate massive numbers of people? So, as I said, there are people, I think, that want to not disclose for reasons that they feel are noble and good.

>> What do you personally think? Are we ready? >> Yes. Because here's the thing, even having played devil's advocate and said all that, and I don't know how or if this is edited, but I'll say this in the context of everything I just said, you could keep all of that totally protected. I doubt there's very many people out there who could construct a nuclear bomb even if they had access to the plans. But you could also disclose, yes, we've been in communication with non-human intelligence. Yes, there are multiple species out there.

That fact in and of itself is not going to create doomsday weapons and it's not going to destabilize the economy. It's going to cause the maturing of an entire people. And maybe we'll get to a point in history where instead of being adversarial, we realize guys, we're part of a much bigger universe. Maybe we need to resolve some of our historical conflicts and start thinking about our place in the universe. Not just our place in the world, not our country and our government versus this country and this government, but how are we as a species being evaluated by other species? >> All of you gentlemen, you, Jake, Fred, John, all of you have fought wars as patriots for your country for much of the last 30, 40 years.

The big message in all of this is that there is a technology that makes that whole idea redundant. >> Yes, that's the word I was going to use, but you beat me to it. Not just redundant, not just counterproductive. Sadly, many wars are fought for profit. Uh it's not a good long-term strategy.

Uh peace and prosperity should be the focus and the goal. Many governments, including my own, seem to have at many levels lost sight of that. And like you said, the disclosure of non-human intelligence. Um, I would like to think that it would make people perhaps take our place in the world more seriously. You know, we exist, we have our popular culture, we have our sports teams, our musicians, people like me that are into politics, and we root for one team versus the other.

All of that will be muted somewhat in the context of a greater truth. People of faith will be challenged to look more closely at the faith, not believe what they believe because it's what they taught when they're young or they gone through a bad experience in life and had a conversion experience. But no, we better think very seriously about God, our mortality, our place in the universe because it's a bigger, more complicated universe than many of us think they know. There is a splendid anarchy in what Jake is proposing you guys do. >> It's called Skywatcher.

>> Mhm. >> Tell me about it. >> Well, I think it's unique. I I do know there are some other people trying to attempt similar things and the Galileo projects and other stuff. There are people trying to collect evidence.

Evidence is exactly what you need. And it can't be imagery. There is imagery now that we know is true. was collected by military organizations and there's demonstrable flight characteristics moving in and out of the atmosphere, in and out of the ocean. Things can't move like that.

But you're doubting Thomas' are going to say, "Hey, that's probably propaganda. It's misinformation. It's um CGI." If you get tangible physical evidence, you can send craft or biologic samples to multiple universities and um higher learning institutions. Then there's no longer you can't doubt it anymore. People would have to take a hard look at that point at the truth of the subject.

>> You talked earlier about the issues with compartmentalization, meaning that it's very hard to know how big the program is. >> Left hand doesn't know what the right hand's doing. But there's another problem too, isn't there? Because good science depends on peer review and sharing ideas. >> And my understanding is that there are materials science breakthroughs that haven't happened because people's secrets unwilling >> Mhm. Yes.

I mean, the the great thing that could happen is I mean, I was so excited by Skywatcher because there was one of the greatest periods in American history was the Apollo moon program where we said, you know, we will send a man to the moon. >> Yes. >> And we did. >> Mhm. >> The potential behind what Skywatcher can do is incredible.

Well, it might force the hand of some of the bad actors. If you produce physical evidence and technology as a result of that physical evidence, there is physical evidence and technology already in the hands of certain uh organizations, both public and private. If you produce that evidence, you're kind of forcing them at this point to kind of get in a uh disclosure arms race. Well, yeah, you know this and you know this, but we know this and this. So, at some point it would be um mutually beneficial for everybody to finally put all their cards on the table.

I think they'll be forced to do so. >> I'd be very surprised, Don, if the Russians and the Chinese aren't already trying to do the same thing. >> Oh, they are. Yeah. >> So, there's, as David Grush said to me when I interviewed him in 2023, there is a secret cold war going on about this technology.

>> Absolutely. And again, for good and bad reasons on both sides of the equation, but SkyWatcher in particularly, I like the involvement of Dr. Nolan. We have Psionics. We have technological assets that most people don't know exist.

The um dog whistle, uh the ability to contact and collect tangible evidence, it it would be the game changer. I believe in your interview with Louie said it's not an event, it's a process. We may go from a process to an event. That is a gamecher. And right now, unfortunately, we're on the precipice possibly of World War II.

We have multiple hot spots around the world, which we seem to as a species be determined to destroy ourselves. We probably need a gamecher event. We need something to make us stop and reflect and work collectively to a greater good. I appreciate that some of what you've seen is classified for good reason. >> That's completely cool.

>> What I'm looking for here is the excitement, >> the aha moment. >> I'm looking for that moment when you suddenly realized, "Oh my god, this is real." >> Well, >> can you give me a sense of that emotion? Well, you think to be wonder, but it's more like I wonder what those who are involved with all of this are going to do with this where I don't know what's an event you could explain and compare it to. I don't know, let's say I'm from the country, you're a kid, you get old enough to safely handle a weapon. Okay? So, you're taught how a pistol and a rifle works and it it's very powerful and it's it's an aha moment. And then you think, "Oh, good lord.

If mishandled, I could kill myself for someone else." That there is both wonder and weight with knowing versus believing. I believe in God. I have no proof. I choose to believe my particular faith. I believe in God.

But when you know certain things exist, then you think about what is the weight of this in the hands of humanity who has done both glorious and wonderful things throughout history and woeful and horrible things. So the wonder and the aha. Yes. But seeing the seeing the craft, I'll tell you one thing is when I was briefed in on all of the when I was read in on all of the different types of craft. Um, one thing that I did not know based on my personal experiences up to then I'd had experiences before then but when exposed and I don't think I can discuss exactly in detail these classifications but let's say that some were actual craft UAP and others in my mind appeared to be more like an actual NHI like an organism like it's not you wouldn't describe it as a ship more like a well in the ocean but these Non-human intelligences are able to move about our natural universe much like we walk around on land and you know whales swim in the ocean.

But in there's another dimension too literally and phys metaphysically that some of these entities seem to be transdimensional. They can move in ways that I mean like they're there and they're not there. >> That's what David Crush said. >> Well, yeah. There's But when you think about a thing that's there and then it's not there.

Okay. Well, where did it go? Or did it move at such a speed I can't see it? Cuz I'm not a scientist. My mind's like, well, what is that? Well, when you see the classifications of it, I felt like a long time. Do you remember the 1984 movie Ghostbusters? >> Sure. >> When they brought the guy in and hired him Winston Zedmore because paranormal activity had increased so much.

She said, first thing she says, "Do you believe in UFOs, ghost?" yada yada yada. said, "Lady, if there's a paycheck in it, believe whatever you want." And then he goes out and he starts seeing all this stuff. And then it's just his job. And like every other job, it has some parts that are really cool and other parts that have you worrying and scratching your head. Well, when you see how many different types of UFOs, if you even watch some of the documentaries on the um phenomenon, you see a lot of different types of im imagery that most of us involved with this know, yeah, that's legit.

That's bogus. Well, disregarding the bogus, there's so much diversity in the legitimate footage that is out there that when I was that's I kind of think that's my aha moment when I'm not just doing a particular thing. I'm hey, you show up here at this place. This is your load out. You do this, this, and this.

That's great. Well, when you're read in fully to just how much is known, how many various types of crafts and beings, I would say that's what I would refer to NHI as. That's my aha moment. It's not getting handed the gun. It's told the details of this is a lot bigger thing than even in even you who has experienced and seen things on your own, buddy.

It's bigger than you could even imagine. >> The overwhelming sense I get from you and all the guys that have stepped forward this show is optimism. >> Mhm. >> This is incredible. >> Yes.

Again, I'm a patriot. I'm a person of faith and I'm worried for my kids' future. This is interesting. I like being interviewed. None of it's more important to me than my children and their future.

And we're at a very, very dangerous time in history. You asked me about our government and how our own legislative branch is supposed to have oversight of things. And they have it's failing. It's non-existent. When you have the only few people that seem to be read in are those who want to suppress and tell everybody else to shut up.

Nothing to see here. Well, that doesn't give me hope for my children's future. What gives me hope is the people like Jacob who are willing to risk everything and say, "Yeah, no, not only is it real, I've been involved in it for decades." At great personal risk to his health, his wealth, and his well-being, it has cost it could have cost him his life on a number of occasions. It's cost him his health, and now he's risking his entire life and livelihood to share this. So I hope all those people that watch this and that they doubt take into consideration what these men are risking to share this with you.

Why would they do that? There is a lot to lose and the only thing to gain is the betterment of mankind. I would not myself have risked this if not asked to do to come forward and share this by Jacob. um people can't they don't in their day-to-day lives realize what he's risking as opposed to a normal asset. Normal assets are not millionaires. They don't hold multiple businesses.

One of their greatest allies is their anonymity because if you're a person of means, everybody wants something. One of Jacob's greatest assets up to now is nobody meets him thinks that he's a multi-millionaire, that he's involved with all these things and other things. really interesting venture. He's a a true Renaissance man. He's, you know, plays music.

Uh he and I have had our share of bouts combatively. We do martial arts. Very interesting dude. He's got a very prestigious pedigree. He trained with me in the martial arts way back in the day in the military and since, but he's actually trained with worldrenowned instructors.

He's given up and risking quite a bit for this. And if it wasn't for knowing his character and and why he's doing it, the the the the amount of I hope that the persons watching this would realize how much he's risking to share this knowledge. >> Now, one of the things I take heart from is that you've emphasized there are good people, >> very good people, >> in the military and the intelligence community who do want this story told. >> Yes. >> But there are bad people.

There are maligning people. >> Yes. >> What are they going to try and do? How do you think they'll respond? >> Well, how they respond to David? How they respond to Lou Alzando? And because it's compartmentalized, I know some of these people. I don't know a bunch of them. So, I have to do the same thing that your viewers will do.

Well, is this person legit or are they full? It's hard to tell. I do know this though. those who are all of those who are disclosing the knee-jerk reaction is discredit their mental health to call them a liar. Uh I believe a highle military official came out later and said no well Zando was in charge of exactly what he said he was in charge of. You can believe what you want about everything else he says.

That was his position. He did do that job. Well, these people are risking so much when they do this. Uh, I think that that's the epitome of evil when you have members of your own community, your own military, your own government, your own private organization that are attacking you, engaging in character assassination, potentially having people killed. U, that's a horrible state of affairs.

>> This isn't just a story about UFOs, is it? >> No, about human nature. >> But it's also a story about restoring American democracy. Oh, you you'd ask me about that and that's very true and because I'm going to look at another historical event, the assassination of Kennedy. Okay, everyone knows that there are things which are not being disclosed. Let's use that as a metaphor for this.

Why? Everyone involved dead. You're not exposing anyone to individual harm. Why are you still refusing? Because if you don't tell the truth, if you're intentionally with beholding that from the American people, you're talking potentially about killing a duly elected president for some nefarious reasons, then democracy does not exist. If you can just say, "No, you're not allowed to know the truth of why this president and how this president died after all these years, why that's not been disclosed." Now, we're not talking about humanity changing event. We're talking about the assassination of a president.

Okay. Why is that not being disclosed? And absence complete transparency with the American citizens. No. Uh I believe the quote from one of the founding fathers is you have a republic if you can keep it. Well, now if we don't disclose, and I'm going to go off on a tangent here.

Yes, we need to disclose about UAPs and NHIS. We need to tell the truth about what happened to that president. There are many things which are undisclosed which need to be disclosed or America's citizenry. It's not it's not like we're losing confidence in our government. We have no confidence in our government.

And that's I have friends who are hardcore conservatives and Republicans, friends who are hardcore Democrats and liberals. One of the few things everyone gets agrees with is that we're not getting the full story from our government and our government's not always acting in our best interest. >> Thanks for watching. Go to joinn.com to find NewsNation on your television provider. And please don't forget to click that red subscribe button to ensure you get more of NewsNation's unbiased and fact-driven news coverage.

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