The UFO/UAP Disclosure Process with Daniel Sheehan

Transcript

we have just released Issue 4 of the new thinking alloud magazine download it for free at new thinking aloud. G new thinking allowed is a nonprofit Endeavor your contributions to the new thinking allowed Foundation make a meaningful difference in our ability to produce new [Music] videos thinking aloud conversations on the Leading Edge of knowledge and Discovery with psychologist Jeffrey [Music] mishlove hello and welcome I'm Jeffrey mishlove today we'll be exploring the UFO disclosure process my guest is Daniel shien he is the author of The People's Advocate the life and legal history history of America's most Fearless public interest lawyer for the last 50 years he has been active in some of the most prominent cases in American history the Pentagon papers the Watergate burglary the Karen silkwood case the American Sanctuary movement case the Iran Contra affair he represented psychiatrist John Mack when he was being investigated by Harvard University due to his interest in apparent alien abduction cases he is currently heading up an organization called the new paradigm Institute that is launching a new initiative to hold Congress responsible for UFO and UAP transparency Dan is located in California and now I'll switch over to the internet video video Welcome Daniel it's a pleasure to be with you today thank you Jeffrey I'm it's a pleasure to be here we'll be talking about the whole UFO disclosure process it's a very hot button issue right now with the whistleblowers and uh you've been involved in the UFO Arena ever since at least since John Mack was being investigated by Harvard University so you a long history already working in this area plus many many other areas involving social justice and I guess you see this as a an area that's consistent with your other work in the social justice Arena oh AB absolutely uh but but it's important to remember that I first became involved in this back in 1977 you know almost 20 years before uh John ma that's one of the reasons John called me that asked me to be his lawyer that when I was at Jesuit headquarters so I was General Counsel at the United States Jesuit headquarters in their Social Ministry Office developing public policy and was reached out to uh by the people that President Carter had asked to prepare a uh a classified report for him on UFOs and extraterrestrial intelligence uh and so that I became involved in it in a from a spiritual context uh and having to do with Consciousness and the potential impact that it would have on human consciousness uh so that my involvement with it uh came from that perspective because of the role that Consciousness has in social justice well that makes perfect sense and if I recall correctly it was the Library of Congress that Carter had tested to to prepare this report and so they called on you that's right yeah it was a congressional research service the the Science and Technology division of the Congressional research service that's who were tasked to do the do the study uh and Marsha Smith who was the director of that reached out to me uh and asked me to participate as special counsel how did that report go incidentally well it's interesting it it kind of uh descended at that time into kind of a statistical study a mathematical computation of Drake's equation and what the probabilities were uh of discovering you know other life other other where elsewhere in the universe and remember at that time the the scientific community in the academy you know didn't even officially acknowledge that there were any other planets uh outside outside of our uh solar system because pursuant to the scientific logical positivist worldview until you can measure it and weigh it and taste it and feel it uh it doesn't exist uh and so that they weren't acknowledging that there were any other planets uh and so that the the people in the study resorted to this statistical study of how many Star systems there were and you know how likely it was that there were planets uh around them and it was all probability projections but in that when uh when we began to talk about concrete evidence uh of actual UFO contact uh that it became much more problematic uh but when I when I found the photographs uh of the crash retrievals uh in in the when I was given access to the classified portions of Project Blue Book uh I ended up bringing those back to Jesuit headquarters uh and providing those to the headquarters and then we reached out to the other 54 major religious denominations in the United States to ask them to put together a task force uh to try to get out ahead of this theologically uh and uh and they didn't do it uh so it was it was an interesting period back there in 1977 when I first began working on this but I I realized once I had seen the photographs and I knew that the UFOs were real I had always assumed they were and I'd always anticipated they were but once I saw the actual photographs of a genuine UFO in the custody of the United States Air Force inside their classified documents I turned my attention to trying to get this to happen and I've been at it now for 46 years or so that that's amazing you actually saw those photographs had them in your possession shared them with the uh Jesuit Ministry back in 1977 well technically what I did is I traced them because they refused to allow me to take any photographs out of there so what I did is I just opened up my uh the yellow pad and I traced uh the the actual symbols on the side of the uh on the Dome of the spacecraft that they were recovering and I brought those to the to the headquarters and when I did I gave them to Father uh William Davis who was my immediate Jesuit Superior I was a candidate for the Jesuit priesthood at that time and and when I gave those to him he just opened up his desk drawer and took out an envelope and handed it to me uh and I opened up the envelope and it was a an 8 and 1/2 by 11 black and white glossy photograph of a UFO uh and I I asked him I said well wait a second where where did you get this and he said my sister Dodie gave it to me and I said well where did she get it and she said well her husband Mike who was the air traffic controller at the Seattle Airport uh got it from his best friend who was a pilot that took the photograph out of the window of his plane and he didn't want to get in trouble for fear of losing his license uh uh and so he took it to the air traffic controller and gave it to him who was his best friend and then he didn't want to get in trouble so he took it and brought it and and gave it to uh he gave it to the uh uh his wife and said here take this and give it to your brother he's a priest what a fascinating story but it highlights the the big issue I think that it's coming up now is that the US government it seems has had in its possession for decades maybe going back to the 194 various crashed alien craft that is right the the first one that that I'm absolutely certain about uh is the July 1947 uh crash debris from Roswell now and the reason that I I'm so confident about that is the fact that that you know when they lied about it when the United States Air Force lied about it and said oh no no we don't have any craft here there's nothing to see here that there was a famous photograph that was taken of General Ry who was the commander uh that had supervisory authority over the 509th bomber Squadron where the who actually recovered the craft uh and he was kneeling next to a a faked up um uh air air balloon a weather balloon sitting on the floor and he had in his hand a telegram of some sort you could see it in the photograph uh in 1995 when I was representing John Mack uh someone approached me and said they think that they have discovered who the photographer was from the local Roswell newspaper that took that photograph and he was going to go to try to find him and see if he had the negatives of this uh and so I arranged with him that if he could get the negatives we could possibly have them digitized and we could blow up that that Telegram and get a look at it and we did uh and we actually were able to to generate a digital reproduction of the of the Telegraph and it said right on it a telegram and it said you know take the saucer to right field and bring the victims with it you know and it said and it said that and so I knew from that point on that not only did I seen the actual photographs of the crash retrievals but I had now had the proof that they had a telegram from Roswell acknowledging uh that the saucer was real and that it had bodies with it uh and so since that time you know I've been able to be among those people where well for example i' I set when I was representing Dr John Mack and became legal counsel for his peer group the project for Extraordinary research uh extraordinary experience research you know I've interviewed dozens and dozens of people who have had Direct face-to-face contact with uh extraterrestrials and so I've been able to discern uh after having done hundreds of depositions in My Life as a a trial attorney you know I've been able to discern who the credible Witnesses are so I have tons of credible Witnesses I've interviewed I've seen the photographs of the crash site I've I've helped participate in in uh viewing the the telegram that General Remy had from Roswell so I'm among those people who are completely convinced that it's true which is important when you're when you're engaged in this process it's one thing to be speculating and looking for information to decide what you're going to think about something but I know that it's true uh and so therefore I can approach it with that kind of confidence uh and so when I'm when I'm interviewing people or I'm investigating it I'm doing it from the point of view not of an experiencer because I've I've had no direct contact or I haven't even seen a UFO except for in photographs but but I'm I'm sure that it's true and now the Congress States is acknowledging it for sure something is going God the question is what and uh amongst all of the reports there obviously there's the question of craft that have actually been retrieved and and and bodies that have uh presumably been re been retrieved but then you have reports from people who claim they've had as you just mentioned face tace contact with alien beings and and then you get into questions UFO abductions and hybrid children and does the US have a secret space program uh with our own Starships have we already succeeded in uh acquiring the technology for these vehicles uh and and so there's still many many open questions at least in my mind yeah there are there are number of for example uh we' We've encountered a number of uh frauds you know where people you know want to come forward and pretend that they know things they don't know uh and that we've had certain individuals come forward and say oh they're part of the secret space program and they've been to distant galaxies on the our Starcraft and all that I I actively don't believe them uh you know I don't believe that's true what they've done is they've they've taken some of the data that's been verified and they've kind of I think they've discerned a certain algorithm within the evolving facts on that they' projected it out into the future and then they've asserted that it's true uh and I have I don't do that you know I I take it as far as the evidence actually supports at any given time and I'm insisting upon doing the investigations which our new paradigm Institute is doing uh We've set up a 501c3 Institute the new paradigm Institute to undertake the investigations of things that we haven't yet been able to verify uh and we've been intimately involved in the process of trying to get this piece of legislation passed so that we can work directly with the the uh congressional committees to get this information to them uh and so this this law that's in the process of being passed right this week basically as we as we talk here uh is going to move that forward to some extent but we have to continue this operation on the part of our citizenry to get this information to gather the the credible stories there's lots of photographs now there's there's lots of tape recordings there's other things that we can bring together to in a sense as a practicing trial attorney that's done a number of these major cases you know from representing the New York Times in the Pentagon papers case to you know doing being the people who filed the major Federal Criminal racketeering charges against the off-the-shelf Enterprise of Oliver North you know to to doing the Ken silkwood case that caught them the CIA smuggling bomb grade plutonium to is Israel into Iran you know we've done all these cases we want to bring that same kind of level of expertise to these investigations and we're hoping that we have a receiving audience at the Congress to present this information to them and of course we've been in direct communication with a number of whistleblowers who have come forward from deep inside these programs of the crash retrieval programs and the reverse engineering programs that were uh getting Congress to listen to these people and decide what to do uh with them well let's talk about the legislation that is pending I believe we're referring to the defense authorization bill which is huge yeah 3,9 uh 30 pages you know and the the section that we're talking about was the 24 page uh amendment that we wanted to inser into the National Defense authorization act which is basically the UFO controlled disclosure Act of trying to set up an independent uh panel that was going to be reviewing all of the information that the US government has in his possession and very importantly uh was armed with subpoena power to extract the information from the Central Intelligence Agency from the defense intelligence agency uh from all 18 of the United States intelligence agencies you know all six of the military services uh all 32 of the uh defense department agencies but most importantly also from the private military contractors who have been put into possession of some of the technology that's been recovered from these these UFOs and they're using it to try to develop a super weapon system uh you know it's the the the the it's the old super saying that you know is that when a pickpocket meets a saint all he sees are his pockets uh and so what's happened is since the the defense department are the ones that have been capturing these these saucers they immediately start thinking about how they can transform it into weapons uh and and they're missing out on the extraordinary uh higher CH there's a there's a story that Hal put off told me that uh Hal Hal's been involved for a long time in working on these things as you know you know Hal and he said that when he was talking to the science advisor for the uh for President Clinton uh and was asking him you know well you know what what have they got what are we going to be able to do with this the science adviser said look at let's let's go outdoors and take a walk here and let me talk to you and he said uh let me give you an example of what I think is going on right there he said uh let me tell you the story there's a story of an old man uh who was uh walking home uh early one evening and he's walking through this field and he sees this little light in the grass and he bends down and sees that there's a a frog in the grass and it's got this light on its head like and he picks the Frog up and it turns out that it's a crown on the head of this little frog and the Frog starts talking to him uh saying uh I'm really a princess uh and I've been turned into a frog by an evil sorcerer and all you have to do is kiss me and I'll turn back into a princess uh and you and I will be married and you'll have the whole Kingdom we'll have many children together and the old man looked at her and he said well actually I'm at an age where I think I'll settle just for having a talking frog and he pocket brought it home okay and so so that's the story that hell tells you know is that the the the what we're passing up the possibilities that were're passing up here at least temporarily uh to be able to have direct open communication and ACC access to this extraterrestrial civilization to understand what an additional billion years of evolution might have brought uh to the phenomenon of Consciousness uh and answer the fundamental questions that we have that that we perceive to be theological and metaphysical uh that are involved with the UFO phenomenon uh is this extraordinary opportunity that's facing us and that you and I and those in our generation you know have another 25 20 25 years to devote to this uh and that we need to make use of that time to try to bring this information out on our watch at least in this Incarnation I'm I'm hoping in the next Incarnation to possibly be a Starship Captain you know but uh it's it's probably not going to happen this time this this Incarnation so I can play this role of trying to do this you spent a lot of time working on the areas of Consciousness and have written about the these kind of extraord ordinarily metaphysical type of exp experiences that people have with the UFO phenomenon and its occupants uh and I'm I'm very uh interested in that aspect of this whole thing uh but also I'm dealing with the legal implications of it all the the legislative steps we need to take the investigatory steps we need to take you know the recovering of The Craft Etc so there's an entire Spectrum uh of issues that are at play with regard this UFO phenomenon uh and our generation wants to address all of them to help the next Generations behind us uh come to understand this phenomenon well I'm pretty sure that a lot of people figure that above all this could be a military threat to us if the aliens with their advanced technology wanted to interfere with our way of life there'd be very little we could do to stop them so from a military point of view it would seem important that we understand their technology well the as I say that uh when a pickpocket meets a saint all he sees are his pockets you know and and the fact is if if we have a a set of structures that have a standing army such that George Washington warned us against you know we have a standing army whose obligation it is is to take a certain narrow perspective on the issue of our national security uh and that they they genuinely believe for example if one looks at the 1992 United States defense department policy planning guidance documents that were prepared under then Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney that it says specifically that our mission is to to seek out and maintain our continued privileged access to the Strategic raw materials needed by our major corporations uh because they they that is their operational Mission assignment and so it's not just that they're trying to defend us what they're trying to do is engage in in their own words the establishment of full spectrum dominance over the planet uh and they say so right in their own documents so they view that as their mission statement so that it's not just trying to figure out how to protect ourselves against this technology what they're trying to do and we've now discovered that they're trying to back engineer the technology to build bu a missile system that can deliver uh thermonuclear weapons uh in a warhead that can be launched from the United States Territory and hit Russia or China inside of two minutes you know and that that this is a this is a serious uh challenge that we have uh as as people who are devoted to trying to help Elevate the consciousness of our human family to try to take out of their exclusive hands the dealing with this phenomenon we have to get it into the hand hands of Congress we have to get it into the hands of the churches we have to get it into the hands of the economists uh the the sociologists uh we we have to get our whole Human family all of the disciplines that we've developed over the centuries to to bring to bear uh on this particular phenomenon so we can have a holistic uh approach to this rather than a narrow-minded military defensive kind of dialectical confrontational perspective uh on this phenomenon I don't know that we're going to be capable of changing the American Military structure although if anybody's up to the job it's probably you I know that you know the National Security Act I think goes back to the 1940s the creation of of the intelligence Community the CIA and and and that whole network they they've been well established since before I was born 1947 December of 1947 the National Security Act of 1947 created the Central Intelligence Agency you know and the and the the the thing that keep in mind is that agency was created at the direct behest of one of the senior partners of Brown Brothers Herman which was the Coalition of robber barons who were attempting to to monopolize the resources and Robert LoveIt is the guy that wrote the the memo to President Truman asking to create such an organization and so they have they too have viewed themselves as as being operatives basically of a certain kind of uh economic prowess that they want to assert over the world uh and so that we that we have to change we you know it's absolutely appropriate as long as there are nation states you know and I studied under Henry Kissinger at Harvard College at foreign policy so I know what you know the implications are of the present nation state system that we have it's confrontation ation it's competitive and in fact you know that they they attempt to establish Ultimate Military superiority over every other nation state and they do it under the the rubric of Defense but when it when it devolves into an offensive capability the United States for example you know our military budget every year that they're getting set to approve in the National Defense authorization at this December you know is 10 times bigger uh than any other in the world uh in fact is bigger than all 10 of the other people other nation states in the world taken together the top 10 people you know and the and that we keep on insisting that that's just for defense purposes but we have 800 military bases all across the world you know and we're we're we're insisting that China who's asserting control or uh control over the South China Sea is somehow interfering with our national security and we we've you know we've brought into NATO uh the republics that were released by gorbachov you know at Jesuit headquarters we were in direct communication with gorbachov trying to talk him into stepping back from the Cold War to agree to disarm the nuclear warheads Etc as soon as he stepped back you know the defense department under Dick Cheney and George Bush Senor tried to move in to fill in the vacuum to establish full spectrum dominance over the planet and they said so you know so we have there's a job we have to do to get our citizenry to to actually Elevate our Collective Consciousness and try to get the instrumentalities of our government to reflect a higher state of consciousness to at least move our our military back to a legitimate defense posture uh and out of this offensive posture that they're in uh and it becomes directly pertinent with regard to the UFO issue because they're trying to use the technology to develop this offensive Weapon It's a first strike weapon they actually the the code name for the program is called prompt Global strike I understand that that the government would be interested in exactly that a prompt Global strike I'm not at all convinced that that there's a link between that and UFO technology I could be wrong of course I have very little direct information but my best sense is that this technology is so far Advanced above anything that we have that uh even though governments and and private organizations businesses presumably have been attempting to reverse engineer this stuff for decades they haven't gotten to first base with it well I'm I'm afraid they're they're they're on first base uh you know they haven't hit the home run yet uh I believe uh but they're on first base uh and the fact of the matter is you take a look at you know what they're doing radiant Technologies for example that is developing this prompt Global strike program uh this this super fast missile you know have hired people right out of the defense department that are Specialists on UFO technology that's what they've done so you know perfectly well that that's what they're doing and they've been negotiating with with locki Martin to get put into possession of one of the spacecraft you know so that they can work on it uh to to promote to promote this rocket technology uh you know and the the two the two congressmen that have given us the greatest resistance on this bill we tried to get pass are right from the the uh uh Redstone Rocket missile testing range in the second District of Alabama uh and the uh and the Wright Patterson Air Force Base you know in the 10th District of of Ohio these are the two major people who organized the resistance against passing this bill so that we could have greater disclosure of this information because they want want to keep it secret and they want to have patents they want to have patents so that they can make literally trillions of dollars in mastering the the anti-gravity and uh and the uh super luminal propulsion systems that's what they want and they realize that the major money to finance both of those Technologies is in the weapons industry uh and it's just what we call at Jesuit headquarters we call sinful structures you know we have sinful social structures that are place right now uh in that the PAB rupe the superior general of the Jesuits when I was in him uh you know has asked all of us all the Jesuit priests and ask all of us that that to engage in Daily work uh to disassemble the sinful structures uh in unjust structures that abide on our planet you know it's not a matter of attacking individuals or attacking even their own personal Integrity because the people are part of the institutional structures uh in that they're accepting Mission assignments from our structures uh and these are potentially destructive you know of our entire Human family we all know that we live under the umbrella every day of potential total thermonuclear destruction uh and yet we haven't been successful in getting them to disassemble those weapons and we've got to do that in fact if anything they'll make bigger and stronger weapons if given a chance that's right right or if even not even given a chance they'll take the chance that's what the problem is they're they're not they're not under constitutional control you know that supposedly the authority that anybody in the government has is delegated to them by the people uh and the fact is we have not delegated that kind of authority to them but they've taken it for themselves uh and they've kept it secret even from the elected representatives they keep a secret even from some elected presidents you know and secretaries of defense haven't even been briefed in on this that's that's the pro that's a problem we were trying to overcome when we spoke earlier we talked about the unacknowledged special access programs that the government has and which uh government policy uh is that if if somebody a reporter should question you about these programs it's perfectly appropriate to lie about it that's right and to Congress to lie to Congress to lie under oath to Congress to lie to your president your commanderin-chief in fact even within their own judical structures that they think that they're authorized to lie to them because they they view elected representatives as temporary employees of the government and they view themselves as a permanent institution of the government the fact is they tend to think of themselves as the government you know and these are military people and covert intelligence people and they view themselves to be in charge of the government uh and it's totally untrue it may be true in a dictatorship it may be true even in some communist Nation but it isn't true in a democracy and they they haven't quite been adequately trained or concientizar Gracy uh and we have to we have to exercise our Authority as Citizens not only to help our country but to help our whole Human family we're the 5% of the population the entire world that can actually have a direct effect upon the policies of this this government and so we have to do so it's a it's an obligation that we have it's a spiritual obligation in my opinion well at the same time it does seem to me that an awful lot of information is coming to us about UFOs about aliens uh in fact a great deal of detailed information through the public sector through for example individuals who claim they've been aboard these craft uh some individuals claim that they themselves were given access to Pilot some of these vehicles and and that the vehicles themselves operate not on a technology uh that we think of as technology but operate by Consciousness itself that when you're piloting such a craft your thoughts become important that's right no no that's that is that is true in in fact in fact in the Roswell crash in July of 1947 one of the technologies that was removed from that craft according to Colonel Philip Corso who was in charge uh at the Pentagon in July of 1947 he was charged with the the recovery and and Analysis of foreign technology uh and he was put into possession of uh the the helmet that was warned by the pilot uh of the crash saucer at Roswell and it was clear that the the craft was navigated by telepathy uh and that and in fact I've talked with another witness who believe that uh He Came Upon a UFO craft uh he was climbing he was hiking in the mountains of of Colorado uh in his summer vacation from college uh and uh he called me and and asked me to come and see him not to reveal his name because he didn't he's a very famous person you know and he said that he he walked right up onto a UFO sitting in the meadow and he went over and he put his hand on it and he could tell that it was alive he said that and the the technology of being able to integrate uh sentient Consciousness into a machine is what's going on with AI right now that they're actually they're actually using human stem cells to put into the computers to generate human dendrites and synapses from the brain uh into the computers and so if you if you add another billion years to the time one has had to develop this kind of technology that it's possible that some of these UFO craft actually have sentient capacities uh in that they interact with the telepathic Communications of the pilot now these are the kind kind of things that you know you wouldn't have dared talk about you know 10 years ago even if you did know it but now that we know perfectly well that uh that the secret programs that are inside the Pentagon and inside the the Central Intelligence Agency are exploring this very issue is what is this unique relationship between Consciousness and this UFO phenomenon they're they they know that there's something going on there and how how put off often these people have been directly involved in trying to to explore some of that information uh so so the the and that's why the churches when they really realize that the entire religions of our human family have to do with human consciousness uh and what what our capacities are to discern other dimensions you know other vibrational dimensions of reality uh and so that this is an extraordinarily rich field uh and and really we need to be able to pursu persuade the the academy the universities to begin studies on EXO EXO Planet studies to really understand what the UFO life may be like what their culture may be like what our what changes our culture has to go through in order to accommodate uh a relationship with a with a culture like that uh this is the next step you know we we've made we've mounted a major uh campaign to get the legislature and the government structures involved in in sharing this information with us we have to now do the same thing with regard to the academy with the universities and the churches and the synagogues and temples we've got to get we've got to get our whole Human family all of our institutions moving into a new era here uh you know so that that's what the new paradigm Institute is doing well it you've got a tough job ahead of you I know as a graduate student in Paras pychology back in the 1970s I did research on an individual who seemed to have telepathic contact with aliens could make UFOs appear on demand there many examples of that and and even today there are people still doing that I I had a professor a Paras psychologist someone very open to psychic functioning drop off a of my committee back in those years because he said we cannot mix the science of parapsychology which is struggling for acceptance with another crazy fringe science like UFO investigations they must be kept separate because uh other otherwise we'll be laughed at of course we're laughed at already and and so it it's going to be a very tough road uh when the when the different uh people investigating paranormal phenomena don't even want to talk to each other I know no it's it's a challenge there's no doubt about it you know when when I was the I was one of the the people that was involved in in the uh the state of the world Forum at the end I I pointed out that that our Jesuit office was in direct communication with gorbachov uh at that time to get him to try to step back from the Cold War uh helping to work on getting him to signed the concard releasing the the provinces the the other provinces from the Soviet Union uh and that uh we were we were attempting at that time uh to to draw people into a conversation of what what the new paradigm worldview would look like if we weren't engaged in this dialectic confrontation with the Soviet Union uh and so that that uh I during that time we convened the stateof thee World Forum uh with and we got the Secretary of State James Baker to participate in this and we called various people in it was there that I got to meet Dr Jen Joo Jing Dr Jen Joo Jing was from the Chinese Academy of social science it's a it's a huge uh University complex in Beijing that is at the disposal of the pilot Bureau in China she was in charge of the Science and Technology division uh and she invited me to come to China to to talk with her the first thing she did is brought me in started showing the Laboratories where they were working on Psychic uh issues uh in in in psychokinesis and she showed me the videotapes of iie Geller right uh in the psychokinesis things and and this that was back in in 1999 you know I mean that's 25 years ago uh you know so China knows what they're doing here you know and uh and I'm sure and I one of the first things I talked about with gorbachov when I got alone with him to talk with him you know was about the UFO issue you know uh and we know that the Soviet Union has been working but there but there that we can't allow this to be going on as some kind of a competitive competition among them and they're trying to build weapon systems or weaponize uh the the the capacities of our human family we've got to back up out of this process and only by people who such as yourself uh and others who are willing to undertake certain courageous action you know of of getting the University of California at Berkeley to allow you to do your pH stud PhD studies on on Psychic phenomenon you know that I've been confronting the same issue here you know and the but but I was able to get the Jesuit order uh to support this uh and to to authorize me to deliver the the three-hour closed door session with the propulsion laboratory with a SEI program on the theological implications of contact with an extraterrestrial civilization you know and that they're the ones that authorized us to reach out to the Washington interreligious staff Council and ask all of those 54 religious denominations to set up a task force to try to get out ahead of this to really get to understand all of this so that the there there are some institutions that are supportive of this I've had I have conversations with with Johan ick who is the head of the Vatican archives to try to get him to allow me to see some of this when I was at Jesuit headquarters you know but we so there are we have to those of us who are familiar with the authority of institutions in our human family to get these institutions to move but we cannot be confined to just what it is they're willing to authorize at any given point in time we have to have we have to have the courage to organize our citizenry into a collective community that reaches out and does this on our own and that's why reaching out to have telepathic Communications with extraterrestrials to to do the C5 activities of going out into the fields at night and and making yourself open to these kind of contacts in trying to prepare ourselves so that we we're not cellularly terrified when we end we end up in the presence of one of these UFO beings who is so different than we are because our entire our entire cellular system system of selfs survival you know uh recoils uh in at the first encounter and I've talked to dozens of people that no matter how well prepared they thought they were for this you know when it happens to them you know their their entire body freezes up until they until they can get used to this so we've got we've got work to do here uh and I'm I'm glad that that you're still at it uh I know I'm going to keep at it I've got another 20 25 years before I would consider re reing uh you know but but I'll never retire from this effort well let's talk more about the defense authorization bill and the amendment that is currently in the bill that relates to disclosure what can we expect from that well uh as I say I I would I would give it a great you know as a as a university Professor i' I've used to figuring out how I grade grade my students you know I would give it about a 65 uh you know it's passing uh you know but I'm not going to let write a letter of recommendation to grad school for for the the work that was done by the Congress in this particular case you know that it sets up a framework it does in fact issue an order from the Congress to the CIA into all all six of our military services you I mentioned all 18 of the United States intelligence agencies all 32 of the defense agencies into every one of the Aerospace Technology Corporation that is in possession of this technology to turn over the information uh to the National Archives uh and that the the people who have adequate security clearances in the intelligence committees are going to be able to get access to some of that right uh except there's no enforcement uh device there's no subpoena power there's no punishment for them refusing to comply with it uh and so that that but it's an important sign that Congress even the House of Representatives where they were resisting this have agreed to order them to do it uh the problem is my experience has been when when I was a chief counsel that that put forth the Federal Criminal racketeering charges against the off-the-shelf Enterprise of Oliver North you know we succeeded in getting Congress to pass the bow amendment in 1984 prohibiting the Reagan Bush Administration and the CIA and the military from providing any type of Military Support Direct or indirect to the Contra who had been declared by the international court of justice to be International criminals you know to prohibit them from giving them any military aid uh so Congress issued the order prohibiting them from doing it and they went right around them uh and they insisted upon going ahead and doing it themselves because they consider themselves to be the government and so they were providing Weaponry to the cont to the to the deposed Sandinista dictator Anastasio Samosa and so we caught them doing that you know working out of the church out of the Jesuit headquarters uh and what we did is we presented it to the judicial branch uh finally we forced the legislature to hold public hearings on it but the bottom line is no one was ever punished for that no one out of all of the drug smuggling all the political assassinations all of the weapons uh violations nobody was prosecuted for that uh and so that the bottom line is we know that without enforcement mechanisms uh the the nation Security State people have taken it unto themselves to refuse to obey the law they view themselves as being Above the Law uh and that they won't respond to this uh so that but but we know that they're going to have to give some information over to the to the archives and some of it is going to be made public uh and so our new paradigm Institute is going to be gathering this information because we have our offices right there on Capitol Hill we're going to be able to go over and get the information out of the archives and we're going to be able to put it into a form that people can understand it uh and and explain what the full implications are uh of this so we're we're going to be doing that uh and and so that this statute does provide some assistance some assistance in this this whole Endeavor uh and so we don't we don't want I said we don't want people jumping out of the first story window of their house you know and then having to dust themselves off and pick themselves up you know in despair over over the the inadequacies of the bill you know what I've said is the the glass is part partially full and partially empty you know I won't say half full I I wouldn't give it a full you know it it is but it may be half full and half empty you know our job is to focus on the part that's still empty and help fill that in uh and if they don't respond then we do it ourselves as Citizens I mean after all this is a self-governing uh uh country still and so we have the capacity to do it if we can get people to pay attention uh and and that's one of the reasons why we have to have a new paradigm Institute to be able to get the information to people in bite-sized digestable forms so that people you know in between the men in between football games and basketball games uh in you know in in the women too now you know will pay attention uh to this issue and we're winning that you know that that there's more and more and more shows now on on internet about the UFO issue you know there's a there's weekly series of of programs talking about all of this you know one of my my my jobs in the new paradigm Institute is to try to to curtail some of the more bizarre crazy conscious lying that goes on number one and also you know we we have to get we have to try to get Ancient Aliens for for example to adopt a more rigorous standard of proof than some ancient alien theorists believe you know that's not the right standard because you know I mean they they some of them believe that you know that President Clinton was a ET walk-in you know some of them believe that Biden is having secret face-to-face meetings with extraterrestrials you know we have to we have to get rid of that we have to put the lie to that type of information and get it taken out of the discourse I'm not I'm not in favor of any censorship but what I'm saying is that when we construct affirmative structur such as this in your show the key is is to use discretion in who you're interviewing and who you're putting on uh to tell this to the world uh and and act as a voluntary filter of this information that's one of the things that we want the new paradigm Institute to be viewed as a source of solid credible information about another wise non-credible subject subject it's an incredible subject the issue of UFOs in extraterrestrial civilization uh but it's it's growing in its credibility and we will invoke the the assistance of Congress to give it more credibility we'll invoke the the testimony of whistleblowers from inside to give it more credibility we'll invoke the New York Times to get it more credibility we'll invoke 60 Minutes on CBS to give it more credibility you know uh we'll we'll give to the the Jeffrey mishlove uh webcast to give it more credibility so that's that's what we're we're doing at the new paradigm Institute I think one of the important factors is that this is a nonpartisan issue you've got a lot of support from both sides of Congress to push for this and an overwhelming public uh interest in having disclosure as far far as I know that's right that's right you know that there there's virtually no uh legitimate opposition to this except from the forces that are trying to keep it secret to make a very dangerous weapon system out of it you know that that otherwise there's no reason in the world not to discuss this you know uh you know and it's not true that the churches are pushing back against it you know which everybody oh well the churches are going to not let you talk about it cuz it's going to destroy their religion that's not true at all you know uh you know I was the legal counsel in the headquarters of the the largest single denomination uh you know the largest order in that denomination in the world uh and they're supportive of doing this you know and I need to do more work with them to be a little more forthcoming they've still got information in the archives uh that Johan hasn't let me see yet uh you know so I'm I'm still working at that but but we've got uh father Jose Gabriel f for example who was the previous uh uh director of the The pontifical Observatory he's now teaching a class down in Venezuela uh or excuse me in Argentina in Argentina he's teaching a class on the Theology of extraterrestrial uh contact you know and and that's that's with the full sanction in support of the Catholic Jesuit order you know so there there's there's a process going on here I'm hoping to accept accelerate it uh uh we all are helping to accelerate it uh and we're going to be doing some of that ourselves at the new paradigm Institute we're going to be trying to construct uh curriculum uh curricula for an undergraduate degree a bachelor's degree in EXO studies you know a master's degree a PhD program you know uh that we're we're going to be doing that at the new paradigm Institute uh and and setting it up you know we've been offered a full facility it's 1 hour North of San Francisco uh up on Clear Lake uh there's a 70,000 ft old Art Deco Hotel that we can use as a base for for providing bricks and mortar instruction but we all we also have uh you know an online uh University that is that is has a an accredited uh uh degree granting uh Authority uh and so we're going to be doing these things to help ra raise the conscience of people help train people in an academic field that is pertinent to them whether it's economics or geopolitical strategies or or theology or philosophy you know we we have to do this is an extraordinary extraordinarily exciting period uh and we're privileged we're actually privileged to get to live at this particular point in time this is a pivot point of history for our entire Human family we're going to be stepping out into the stars now you know and and to realize that we're part of a large Galactic Civilization and even though we're we can't continue to convince ourselves that we're at the P the apex of the Pyramid of all sentient life in the universe you know uh we got over the fact that we weren't the physical center of the universe with Copernicus and Galileo you know now we need to get over this uh but we we we can't just despair and think that because we're not the the the Apex of all sentient life that we don't have value in The Matrix of of conscious life in the universe we need to understand what that value is what is it about our human family that we can contribute you know I don't think it's necessarily the capitalist economic system I don't think it's the military State you know I mean hopefully there there are some higher higher achievements that we've accomplished that we can help share uh so it's extremely exciting earlier you used the um phrase well I introduced when I said I didn't think they've gotten to first base in terms of back engineering a a UFO and you said you thought they haven't hit a home run but they probably are on first bace I wonder if you could elaborate on that well yeah that you know that they've they've had access to this for some time uh you know since all the way at least back in 1947 uh and they've been devoting a lot of time and attention and lots of money uh to these experiments uh that theyve they've for example that I I've talked with Edgar Mitchell uh when he was still alive and and he said that uh he talked to uh one of his best friends who were actually in a laboratory uh where they were trying to figure out anti-gravity you they're working on the anti-gravity stuff and they've actually been able to develop some kind of primitive technology uh that alters the weight of objects they they haven't at that time they hadn't gotten to the point where where it would would levitate you know but the fact is that they could place an item on a scale and they could subject it to a technology that would would Reduce by one half the weight of of that of that uh that object you know uh he's he's also been at a place he said that this is a this is a big one that they actually uh were in one room and they put a coke bottle I don't know why they picked a coke bottle for the example other than the fact that it's kind of archetypal but they had a coke bottle and they put it on the table uh and had him uh put a little tag on it writing his his signature on it and then had him go into this other room uh and he waited there and he heard this kind of weird noise and this light started to appear on the table in the coke bottle manifested uh in the other room you know with his signature and stuff on the on the bottle you know and so that they they're they're experimenting with this kind of teleportation uh thing uh that may have something to do with the way that the UFO Vehicles move from you know one star system to another one without having to just you know travel Superfast you know so that uh we know they've been doing this we we know that in the mid1 1950s you know Popular Mechanics in Scientific American were filled with with u kind of cuttingedge experim exp that were going on in the area of anti-gravity uh and stuff and then all of a sudden it disappear all of a sudden they stopped doing any articles about it at all and so we know that that stuff went underground uh and that the United States military moved in to take control of that so they the and and we know now that they have they have this missile uh that they have that's that's in this uh this uh prompt Global strike uh program that they've got uh that apparently can travel at Mach 25 uh you know uh in that uh so that that's not normal technology you know that that's not just putting a little more fuel in it or burning fuel you know burning petroleum at a little more efficient rate or any other thing you know that they they've obviously uh begun to cut into this technology now there are some people who believe that uh that they've made even more advances they believe that they're on at least second base you know here uh and and Dr Steven Greer is one of those people who is uh insisting that he has talked with people who have given him what he believes to be convincing information uh that they do have some type of operational craft that they can pilot uh and uh and that they've been experimenting with these out in New Mexico uh that uh that that Stephen and I have had this long and I was General Counsel for the his disclosure project for for 20 years so we've had you know Comm centered discussions about this uh always uh and are still good friends about it but uh but but I've now started to represent Lou alzando and some of the people from inside these programs uh and uh uh so we're getting more and more information uh about this uh but that I've refused to take a security clearance I mean I abely refus because the the if I if I were able to do that I'd be then prohibited from talking to people about what I know and the fact is if I haven't proven it yet I will prove it that I'm capable of getting out all virtually any information that's around uh if you have a sound and reliable place for them to bring the information to uh and and that's what we have with the new paradigm Institute we're going to have people involved with it that are trusted are are capable able are responsible uh and that we're going to be pushing the envelope to get more and more of this information made available uh and so that that I do think you're right that they've they've uh they've begun to develop some of this technology but it's still I think in a fairly crude uh state of development and I hope we can we we have to get a treaty put in place we have to get a treaty where where the United States will take the lead and say look at we're willing to put all of our technology on the table and stop trying to develop any other weapon system but everybody else has to agree to do this too but you know the per the the nation state that is in the lead on these things are the ones that have to initiate this because otherwise everybody saying oh yeah you know you're only you're only advocating that because you know we've got one that's better than you've got you know and so that I think that the the time is now that you know we we've got to get President Biden to agree uh you know uh and get Jake Sullivan and the folks to put this on their agenda to take the step ahead you know and i' I've talked with other candidates uh about this that they they really need to start getting this on the agenda they're still afraid that there's still a big taboo about still even talking about UFOs because of the success of their secret program they've had going inside the CIA you know to totally destroy people destroy their careers destroy their family lives if they try to reveal any of this information you know and we've proven that you know that uh Richard Dolan uh you know who's a PhD candidate at the University of Pennsylvania in history you know uh has written two volumes uh this called the UFOs in the National Security State and he's got the documents that show internal documents showing that the CIA and the defense department had a a a criminal covert operation going on destroying people destroying their lives and their careers if they tried to reveal any of this information uh and it even went so far as regular civilians who had seen a UFO or had Direct contact to prohibit them from talking about it you know and so the the the the problem is is that that there's still a a a an overcast uh on this issue uh of of ridicule uh and and fear actually of of being able to talk about this we have to try to get over that uh and that's part of the responsibility of the new paradigm Institute to start making it a part of our regular discourse a part a regular courses of instruction uh you know what are the economic implications of this what are the scientific implications what are the theological implications that's we've got to get it down into a an everyday uh kind of conversation before we can uh make the full progress we need how can our viewers be of assistance to you well the most important thing they can do is just go on to our website you know it doesn't cost anything it's totally free you know come on to our website of new paradigm institute.org uh you can find all the email addresses for your Congress people and your Senators uh they should still be doing this between now and at least between now and December 21st when the vote comes on this to to keep telling their their senators and Congress people that they want full disclosure they want full responsible disclosure that's the first thing that they can do uh the next thing they can do of course is is dig further into the website and find the information you what is it that makes it credible now why why is it that the United States Senate made official findings that they knew that our government was in possession uh of of information about possess possessing a craft like this you know why did why did the house uh intelligence National Security subcommittee uh of the oversight committee hold public hear hearings you know telling the world that we had this crap you know we need to share this information so they can come on to the the website the new paradigm institute.org and get lots of this information we have we have a documentary films we have scientific studies there uh you know and and we're our job is to make this information uh entertaining uh interesting you know engaging you know not some pedantic kind of ing at people uh we're we're going we're going to try to get uh major Motion Pictures made that are not fictional you know that that don't go off the deep end like Project Blue Book did on television you know where they had uh Dr hinck you know seeing UFOs and and finding bodies and sellers and all that stuff you know I mean none of that's true you know stick with the facts stick with the facts but there they're still exciting dramatic entertaining that's our job new paradigm Institute uh and it's also uh professionally responsible in each of the fields of econom economic studies and academic uh uh uh importance you know to to bring these studies into the academy and that's that's one of our major missions is to bring them into the academy to get uh the new generation trained on this so they have an entirely different Consciousness about this I am under the impression that this policy you described of discrediting the witnesses uh is no longer in effect it's just a vague impression I have based on recent Revelations do you know any more about that well it's interesting uh it's it's it's clear that at least some people inside the National Security State infrastructure haven't gotten the office memo on this yet that they're not supposed to be doing this you know uh you know for example people don't realize this but David gush's testimony on July 26th of this year uh to the house oversight committee was completely authorized uh by the by the defense Department's pre-publication authorization process you know uh and the and the Lou alzando and Chris melon when they brought the videos to the New York Times uh all of that was cleared so that there's there's there's activity going on inside the National Security State uh structures of authorizing some of this information to to come forward uh and the but but still there were other people inside the defense department establishments and intelligence establishment that were retaliating against them uh as David has testified he and his wife uh received threats you know from them uh Lou alzando that they they were threatening to take away his security clearance the same thing with Christopher melon you know even though they've been officially authorized to say it so that there's still the the memo hasn't been gotten by everybody inside the National Security State uh and so that that we think that the the more that we are public about all of this the deeper the memo is going to go into those circles uh and and then the real problem is with the private Aerospace industry you know they have private security companies you know have have people watch Michael Clayton you know the the the movie that participant uh Productions did you know that that shows that shows you know the lengths to which private security companies will go when we did the Karen silwood case for example uh the kermy nuclear Corporation you know uh had a private security uh company working for them that actually ran Karen silkwood off the road uh and killed her because she was trying to bring to the New York Times David Burnham was waiting for her from the New York times uh and killed her to to silence her you know that that there there are people that that believe that their resort to violence uh is okay still to silence the the people we have to we have to overcome that we have to not be afraid but but I'm saying that there have been steps taken to try to silence Lou alzando to try to intimidate Chris melon to uh to threaten Dave GR you know uh but but they're holding fast know they're not being intimidated by that they're continuing to go forward they're taking all the steps to make sure the things they say publicly have been authorized the whistleblowers for example we got like 40 of them uh lined up you know inside the Senate intelligence committee they don't trust the arrow office you know the the all domain anomalous resolution office arrow is they view it as a a replay of Project Blue Book that they're just trying to capture whatever information the whistle boys have and kill it you know uh and and keep it secret uh they don't trust them yeah and so that we we have to improve uh the the Performing of the arrow office uh but the fact of the matter is until we get the people to stop threatening our Witnesses um they're going to be uh afraid to come public uh so we're we're we're offering legal representation the new paradigm Institute uh actually provides legal defense you know to some of the whistleblowers like L Alando and others uh so we will provide that service as well uh and uh we will do our very best uh to explain to people that are still threatening others that not to their advantage to do that let's put it that way well Daniel she and you have a long track record of standing up a against organizations that that are some of the most outrageously evil in in the world and it's it's not a term I would use lightly so I think if anybody has a track record a portfolio of the sort of experience required to take on a task like this that has been secret for so many decades and is now slowly coming into public awareness you're the guy and I look forward to Future conversations with you you're welcome to come back on new thinking aloud over and over again I I gather that you're a Vortex of information and I'm happy to be able to work with you to make as much of this information information public as possible terrific Jeffrey I definitely appreciate that I appreciate that and uh we will have a number of these conversations great well thank you so much for being with me today Daniel it's been a opening an eye openening experience and and a joy and pleasure to be with you terrific it's mutual thank you Jeffrey thank you so much you're welcome and for those of you listening or watching thank you because you are the reason that we are [Music] [Music] here I imagine that by now many of you will already realize that in conjunction with white crow books we've 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