Night School Podcast #10 - The Invisible College by Jacques Vallee

Transcript

night school night school are you just diving right in yeah let's go all right so today i want to talk about the invisible college what a group of scientists has discovered about ufo influence on the human race by jacques valle and we talked about that a little bit when we did american cosmic because it gets brought up a lot and uh diana worked with jacquesville a lot while she was writing that book so uh and that was what initially led us to read this book to begin with because we both read this book we talked about this you read american cosmic you got me to read that i read american cosmic which led me to invisible college then you read that too yeah and this is one of my favorite books i've read on on ufos and uh yeah so jacques villa we mentioned this a little bit before he's uh he's a french guy he was an engineer who was involved in uh making a map of mars he was involved in a precursor to the internet called arpanet and as of the writing of this book which i think was 74 he had been involved in the ufo field for like 15 years he got into it because when he was working for i think it was some sort of meteorological place in early 60s they observed a satellite that was going the wrong way in the sky so the way satellites work is they sort of spin with the rotation of the earth but they were recording something that was going the opposite direction so that was a really weird anomaly and something that he thought was very strange that they should be discussing more but what he observed happened was a general from the french military come in and destroy the footage and then tell him to not talk about it so he saw an instance of some sort of ufo being covered up by the french military and that got him more interested in the ufo field and what role was he in when this happened some sort of meteorological place something like that they were observing the skies they recorded that and it got covered up and so that wasn't even a military operation and a general from the military came in and said hey i'm going to go ahead and veto this yeah exactly so um that got him into that and he's still heavily involved in in aliens and ufos today now it's 40 years or 45 years later he's in his 80s and he's still like one of the leading figures in researching this stuff also involved a bit in we've talked about tom delonge a little bit tom delong's uh what's it called uh something academy of art to the stars academy of arts and science he's involved in that too now uh he as of writing this book it's been 15 years since he's been involved in it and i thought there was a really interesting sort of thing to set the tone of it because he's seen sort of waves of interest in ufos and aliens happen over time and he describes it here they begin with a sudden series of impressive incidents which receive wide publicity soon many people are excited and demand an explanation every day the media report new cases this period of acute activity may last from a period of a few weeks to three months when this initial phase is over according to the patterns i've traced in previous periods the genuine cases become adulterated with wishful thinking and fakes some hoaxer confesses or some photograph of a sky object enthusiastically carried on the front page of a major newspaper is recognized as a picture of a weather balloon at sunset the public laughs the wave of ridicule sweeps into oblivion hundreds of genuine sightings that deserved serious scrutiny then the task of compiling the observations sorting them out classifying them and looking for patterns becomes a lonely one again so he sees this sort of same cycle happen all the time people get super into it and then one thing gets discredited and then somehow everybody's just like oh all that alien stuff is fake again because one thing proved to be fake a big part of a big part of this book is jacquesville exploring the idea that there's kind of two different parts to the ufo phenomenon this is the fourth book he wrote about ufos and earlier on he had been more of just like approaching this as an extraterrestrial thing as these are beings in spaceships coming to earth but as of this book he's now feeling like that is not complete enough because there is so clearly a psychic component to it because so often people have interactions with the ufos that change their personality or they receive downloads of information like tyler or they uh there's like even like tyler from american cosmic exactly yeah or there's cases of like psychic healing happening to people there's a wide range of that sort of stuff that happens and oh and even like stephen greer dr steven greer does this thing where he leads people in meditations and you're able to like summon ufos through psychically asking them to show up and a lot of this is exploring the psychic component of this um one thing he brought up was edgar casey now we've talked about edgar cayce a little bit he's uh well you know him better would you tell me a little bit about what what his deal was he was an american prophet called the sleeping prophet he discovered his gift when he was in school as a kid he fell asleep doing homework on his text he fell asleep with his face on his textbook and woke up knowing everything in the textbook so um him and his parents were like oh this is this is something so turned out to have a gift he was a christian he wrote the bible cover to cover every year for 40 years straight and he conducted over 14 000 psychic readings all of which are in a library that you can currently read and access today right people would write into him and he would first respond by describing their apartments to them so they knew he was legit and then give them readings and uh he gave readings about what's going to come out of global politics and all sorts of things i think he died in the 50s okay the most well-documented psychic in american history doctor casey doe so edgar casey also had what could be described as either a religious experience or as like a ufo experience and this is from a book called there is a river which is uh stories based on which is stories about edgar cayce's life as a child edgar cayce met a woman who appeared out of a sphere of radiant light and told him that he would be able to heal the sick when he grow up and then here's the excerpt from that book as soon as the weather was good he went back to his retreat in the woods there one afternoon in may he became aware of the presence of someone else he looked up a woman was standing before him your prayers have been heard she said tell me what you would most what you would like most of all so that i may give it to you most of all i would like to be helpful to others and especially to children when they are sick suddenly she was no longer there he looked at the place where she had stood trying to see her in the beams of light but she was gone so there's different ways to interpret that if you're a religious person you may interpret that as some sort of a communication with an angel or you may interpret that as an alien came down and was able to psychically change him uh it's not totally clear to me because it sounds like is your understanding that that case of him fallen asleep on a book and then knowing everything in it was that like how he discovered his psychic abilities yeah but i don't know the story well okay i could definitely be wrong so this this could be related to like how he received them and there are a lot of people that get like data downloads into their brain or have or like gain psychokinetic abilities like esp after having some sort of uh interaction with the ufo which which may mean that they're i don't know they could be actually changing your physiology or just unlocking something in your brain to make you realize what you're capable of doing or yeah something like that there's uh there's just there's a chapter in here called five statements and this is a a pretty good summary of a lot of uh what jackfilet wants to get across and i'm sorry because i'm going to read like a full page here but so here then is a necessarily brief statement of five useful propositions the things we call unidentified flying objects are neither objects nor flying they can dematerialize as some recent photographs show and they violate the laws of motion as we know them and i've i've heard this a lot like a lot of times government agencies will now refer to ufos more commonly as uaps unidentified aerial phenomena because it doesn't really seem like they're flying in the traditional sense because they don't there's no sort of like propulsion going on because they often move in ways that are uh impossible as far as we understand how flying works because it seems to be using some sort of gravity-based technology or something like that uh and also like the famous tic tac ufo case which there's youtube video there's a youtube video of that was released by the government uh that ufo seems to go into the water and out of the water so it doesn't seem like going through water is a problem for it i don't know if it's capable of going through like a solid but at least these things seem to be amphibious so they're not just flying ufos have been seen throughout history and have consistently received or provided their own explanation within the framework of each culture in antiquity their occupants were regarded as gods in medieval times as magicians in the 19th century as scientific geniuses and finally in our own time as interplanetary travelers statements made by occupants of the 1897 airship included such declarations as we are from kansas and even we are from anywhere but will be in cuba tomorrow [Laughter] ufo reports art and this is number three ufo reports are not necessarily caused by visits from space travelers the phenomenon could be a manifestation of a much more complex complex technology if time and space are not as simple in structure as physicists have assumed until now then the question where do they come from may be meaningless they could come from a place in time if consciousness can be manifested outside the body then the range of hypotheses can be even wider because they could be things that are projections of us they could be things that we create if we have some sort of psychic ability or things that we summon here the key to under to an understanding of the phenomenon lies in the psychic effects it produces or the psychic awareness it makes possible in its observers their lives are often deeply changed and they develop unusual talents with which they may find it difficult to cope the proportion of witnesses who do come forward and publish accounts of these experiences seem to be quite low most of them choose to remain silent and five contact between human recipients and the ufo phenomenon occurs under conditions controlled by the latter so it's controlled by the ufo although in light of more recent research by stephen greer it does seem like they are capable we are capable of making that connection happen making that contact happen and capable of severing that connection right uh possibly there's people who have had ufo contacts and then rebuked them with religious language right yeah i've heard stories of that like people saying that you're able to stop an abduction if you say in the name of jesus or in the name of god or in the name of buddha i've even heard that we do have some control over being able to stop them that way yeah its characteristic feature is a constant factor of absurdity that leads to a rejection of the story by the upper layers of the target society and an absorption at a deep unconscious level of the symbols conveyed by the encounter the mechanism of this resonance between the ufo symbol and the archetypes of the human unconscious has been abundantly demonstrated by carl jung whose book flying saucers makes many references to the age-old significance of signs in the sky and we talked about that a little bit i would love to read that book at some point and see what carl jung has to say about yeah ufos and their relationship to our psyche jacqueline goes over the idea of what he refers to as the triple cover-up so he basically says that there's sort of three cover-ups that happen that explains why it is that we the general public don't know about ufos the first cover-up is that people are dissuaded from reporting it at all and that can be through ridicule because like alien stuff gets mocked a lot on tv and by the government even or uh for fear of like having to deal with the government or for fear of someone coming to them and telling them you shouldn't have seen this men in black kind of stuff people showing up and saying you need to keep this quiet or this isn't what you think it is and they would just rather not be involved at all so that's sort of the first layer of the cover-up is that people don't want to talk about it because their life would be a lot easier if they just didn't second part is the notion of like planting evidence or like fake fake explanations happening for something that someone saw so a good example of that is there's a story of a father and his son fisherman they're out fishing on a lake one morning and then a a window opens up in the sky eight feet by five feet is what it says and there's like a beam of light out of it and they stare at it for like an hour and they don't really do anything about it but they just watch it and don't really move much this is something that everybody in the area trusted these people there wasn't any reason to doubt the credibility of the people that were saying they saw this and this was something that got reported a lot in the french newspapers around where this happened a couple days after it happened there was stuff found on the beach across like on the other side of the lake and it was scuba equipment and some sort of like radioactive testing device and the equipment seemed to have like english writing on it so then people interpreted this as this was some sort of english maybe spy thing going on which it doesn't really make any sense this explains nothing the fact that there's scuba gear there and the fact that there's some sort of radioactive testing how does that explain why there's a window that opened in the sky and a beam of light that came out of it it doesn't but it's one of those things where it's enough for people who don't want to believe it to dismiss it because then they can say well yeah there was some weird stuff going on it seemed like the english were involved and there was like some sort of radioactive thing going on there so i i don't know but it was something and that's just enough for them to throw it away mm-hmm yeah i was talking when we were covering jonathan heights righteous mind we're talking about how if you don't want to believe something you only need to find enough rationalization so that you you don't have to believe in it exactly i don't want to believe in this i found like like one reason not to and so i'm just going to go with that one reason and just not right it doesn't have to be good it doesn't have to really survive under intense scrutiny you just don't have to scrutinize it that deeply and i knew we had talked about this sometime recently but i couldn't remember when [Music] and so that's that's really the one that's like uh actually that's like the government cover-up part of this the idea of like people in power actually implementing some sort of like planting evidence to make it look like something it isn't and the third level of the cover-up is is from the phenomenon itself so for example people have missing time a lot of people that get abducted they don't remember that they got abducted because the ufo or the aliens or whatever it is wipes the memory somehow or the ufo there's even instances of like people that seem to have credibly had some sort of experience yet and with that they got certain information that is nonsense that's just like silly and incorrect and because of some aspect of their experience some aspect of their um just their testimony that seems really silly it all gets thrown out so it it's like the ufos don't want things to be concretely understood and they don't want someone to have a really good story to tell that actually convinces people that it's true so they will throw fake information when they give this person information to make them look like they're a kook and so the ufo may cover it up or the person just may not want to talk about it or they may talk about it but then actually to then get covered up by someone in a higher power or not even necessarily someone in a higher power just someone who would like to discredit that person yeah so there's sort of that three levels of cover-up that's going on jacques villa also talked a lot about the phenomenon of automatic writing so that's where people will have some sort of they'll act as like a channel or a medium for don't really know what for some sort of intelligence to speak through them and that it it sounds a lot like kind of seance stuff or like people channeling a ghost and like letting a ghost talk through them it's that same kind of thing but people there are certain people that will if they just take a pen and they put it in their hand and they can ask a question and then their hand will just start writing in someone else's handwriting an answer to that question and what's really interesting about this is that it is very often correct prophetic stuff correct prophetic information that they get but also there's garbage in there also there's stuff that is just patently not true that seems to be just stuff to throw people off the trail and there's a couple short interactions i wanted to read here this is an interaction of okay so there's a a guy who he jacquefully refers to as mr tallman and mr tallman was having these automatic writing experiences and he brought this to the attention of the government and there are there are three government like uh or their military high-level military officers that met with mr tallman and saw him demonstrate what he was doing and they wanted to understand like how are you doing this and mr tallman told him you you try you do it and so this general who's well respected and who jacques villa says although he can't disclose who it is he can assure you that all three of these people are very credible and he's heard it from everybody that was there at this meeting so this guy he tries to contact uh something he refers to as afa and this is a short conversation he had huh what's alpha unclear alpha is some sort of being that claims to be from uranus there's like it references like here there's a list of several beings that later these same people interact with they interact with something that calls itself krill from jupiter alomar from mercury panar also from mercury and encar from the constellation centaurus now i don't know if those things are true but that's what the things said they were that's how they identified themselves uh and i don't know how something could be from uranus unless it's in some sort of i don't other plane of existence or we don't or some sort of other kind of life that we don't really understand or we've been lied to about what's on uranus but that seems unlike it seems probably like someone would have noticed if there was metropolis is there on uranus or whatever right so he asks do you favor a particular government religion group or race no signed alpha will there be a third world war no signed alpha are catholics the chosen people no syndafa can we see a spaceship or flying saucer when would you like to see it can we see it now go to the window and then they go to the window and all these government officials they see a ufo right outside the window in washington dc so all four of these men see it and uh yeah and then there's another interaction where jacques filet meets with someone else who's having a similar experience with with some sort of automatic writing kind of being and this thing refers to itself as seven one seven one valet asks can you experience the future yes why are you communicating the answer to this i do not fully know myself i know only that it is consistent with those higher than i what are ufos a symbol of they are a symbol of nothing in the sense that you mean they have a validity independent of symbolism why are there men like us in ufos because for very deep reasons the form of man is a universal constant which i can't help on that but think of like the notion of uh we are made in the image of god that like maybe this sort of humanoid shape is important for some reason but also you can't really trust this information and that could just be nonsense to make me think that to make people think oh is he referencing the bible why do they come here to harmonize this world with the rest of the universe who is 7171 he is only one of the infinite number of entities through which i may speak does he have special significance only in the sense that he was chosen at a particular time for contact with you can you serve as a channel to an entity that is higher than yourself there is none higher than myself you lied when you said that you were the supreme source of life then either you mentioned those higher than earlier you mentioned those higher than i can you explain this yes i am both the apple is born of the tree but is also the source of all apple trees can you produce physical effects that we can recognize light and sound when the time is right such things will occur i just really liked reading those especially the first time i was reading through them the idea of people having this sort of matter of fact spooky conversation with someone speaking through them is is really interesting [Music] jacques villa has this sort of uh chart or system that he goes through for defining the strangeness of ufo events and it's a one through seven ranking system seven being the strangest so for example uh strangeness category one would be something like just seeing a light like you might have referred to it as a firefly or an orb and those sort of experiences it goes through kind of like the likelihood of each one actually getting reported and it's interesting because three is the most likely to get recorded or to get reported to somebody and then it slopes down on either side of that so if there's a one in 10 chance of anybody actually reporting that firefly to anybody because it's it's not that interesting and it doesn't it doesn't convince anybody of anything i've had those sort of experiences where like i see a light in the sky that i can't explain and so i don't know how to refer to because it's not moving like a satellite it turns and and things like that but most people when they see something like that they don't usually report it because it's not that interesting uh strange's category two an example would be like uh seeing a fireball in the sky seeing something stranger than like a small light moving around like a firefly but seeing like a burning mass in the sky there says there's a three in 10 chance of somebody reporting that and they would generally report that to the police if if anybody three would be actually seeing like uh what you would call a flying saucer so not just a light not not just a light in the sky but you actually can see the shape of the craft itself uh and to see it yeah just see it in the sky uh there's a four in ten chance of somebody reporting that and they would actually report that to the military typically because it seems like something to be more concerned about because there's a concrete thing there strangeness four would be if you actually see the craft land and it says if people are going to report that they almost always report it to some sort of local amateur expert that they know and there's a two in 10 chance of somebody actually reporting that which some of these some of these numbers i guess may not be entirely right because it's it's hard to say how many really don't get reported but so i don't know exactly how he came up with these numbers but yeah uh five would be if you actually see an occupant come out of the ship and like walk towards you or have any sort of interaction there's a one in 10 chance of anybody talking about that and if they do talk about it they generally don't tell it to anyone outside of their family that's usually what people do six would be a personal illumination like they have some sort of they learn something from it like a data download kind of thing from it and they generally report that to almost nobody and then seven would be if you have missing time and that's interesting because you the unconscious mind in some cases doesn't even report it to the conscious mind because that memory gets erased so you don't actually remember that and these six and seven jacques says are the things that he's most interested in because he feels like those are the things that are getting neglected the most because people tend to want to just focus on what's simpler to understand which is uh a spaceship and there's other kinds of beings in there and it's all just technology and no sort of psychic thing going on but jacqueline likes the weird stuff that's what he's into right there's a an interesting bit in here about like uh different mythological descriptions of what sounds a lot like ufos or what we would refer to as ufos and i i thought i thought this was just cool such as the wheels of the book of ezekiel the flying chariots and the legends of india the round baskets from heaven in american indian folklore the flying shields of the romans the cloud ships from begonia of medieval french chronicles and the illuminated flying houses of the celtic fairy folks so it's just all filtered through the cultures of the people that observe them but they're all talking about the same kind of thing and it's it's a pretty popular opinion that like the ufo stuff just started in the 40s around when we first had nuclear weapons but it's definitely not the case unless all of these are just coincidental hallucinations which i'm not really buying he uh i think i might have mentioned this briefly when we were talking about american cosmic uh the miracle of fatima you heard of that yeah miracle of fatima is a it's a popular miracle i guess it's canonized by the catholic church as something that really happened and the story it's it starts in 1915. there is a little girl she's eight years old and she sees what the catholic church interprets as uh the blessed virgin mary but the the being actually referred to itself as the angel of peace and it appealed it appeared to her three times throughout 1915 and three more times throughout 1916 and uh never really did much but just told her to pray it told her to pray a lot and to make sacrifices and she asked what kind of sacrifices are you talking about and they said just whatever just make sacrifices of whatever and it doesn't really go into what she sacrificed but it told her to make sacrifices then in 19 in april of 1917 so two years since the first incident her and two of her cousins so three of them see this being show up again and the being says that it's going to come back every month and people can come and see it because it wants to prove that it exists and so in may they bring a bunch more people because plenty of people in the village believe them believe that these three kids aren't making it up so 50 people are there in may 4 500 people are there in june 18 000 people are there in july 30 000 people are there in august and in october the last one there's 70 000 people that are present and they all see this they'll see well they don't see the being itself but they see the three children talking with something and then people kind of describe it a little bit differently but everybody thinks that the clouds parted and the sun seemed to dim and then the sun dropped down and it started flying around like it was a disk and then it was it was spinning and there was a light show that happened there was rainbows that were all over the place and it was just blasting different colors in every direction a lot of people freaked out a lot of people thought that this was the end of days but after a little while it just went away and uh 70 000 people saw this miracle happen and the catholic church investigated a lot they say it definitely happened and plenty of unbelievers that were there saw it or people that you know aren't religious saw it and they probably didn't interpret it as anything religious because they don't believe that but everybody saw that something very strange happened there uh jacques villa goes into he goes into mormonism a little bit and the story of of joseph smith as though it's like a ufo encounter as because it's a good example of like something that you could interpret if you if you weren't a religious person if you weren't interested in like an angel that you could interpret this as just some sort of alien coming down and giving information to someone because a being appears in his room and is levitating and the room's filled with light and he tells he tells the person he tells joseph smith to go find the plates and then i believe something helps or one an alien or an angel like an angel helps uh translate the plates and this sort of thing could be interpreted as like a ufo encounter because it is with just sort of some non-human intelligence that comes down and gives information to humanity and uh that ends up forming a new religion and that's how this is but you know how most religions start is through some sort of communication some sort of epiphany from a non-human intelligence that explains something about the nature of reality [Music] yuri geller he's um he came up in american cosmic and and also in reality of esp because he's a he's a very popular psychic uh he's an israeli guy and he seems to be able to he has i guess kind of in some ways power's similar to like what john chang has like chi based powers is kind of what it seems like he's able to just like bend spoons in ways that don't make sense bend spoons that are like behind someone else's back with his mind uh he seems to have a certain amount of esp to be able to like predict what somebody else is thinking or to be able to like predict what number they wrote down on a piece of paper and yuri geller he started as like a stage magician but then later on in his life ended up letting scientists study what he was doing because according to him the truth is that this is not illusions that he's doing he actually has some sort of powers that he's gotten from an entity that he's in communication with but he isn't totally at liberty to explain what it wants or what his mission is but he does have a mission and he sort of uh at least encourages people to consider him some sort of second coming like a messiah figure yuri geller got a lot of attention because he was willing to work with the scientific community to have him to be studied and have people uh document what he was doing and it's interesting because he often like proves that he does have these abilities and yet there are there are several times where he has failed and he's like like that thing just lets him lets him hang sorry the thing just leaves him hanging and yeah exactly and so there's plenty of people that discredit him based on those things despite the fact that there's a lot that he's doing that is really interesting there's a an american doctor named andrea pewarik who was interested in him and flew him to the united states to do some studies on him and pewaric was very very convinced that he's like totally on board with the yuri geller thing that like yeah you are some sort of modern messiah some sort of prophet and would you need to be listening to all your prophecies about the future and jacques volley says that he in no way doubts these people he doesn't doubt that they're being sincere he doesn't doubt he doesn't think that there's any chance they are lying about what they're doing but there are things that they get wrong in some cases purarik was was convinced that that yuri geller was the real deal because yuri geller was able to was receiving these mathematical equations that he had no understanding of and he was like writing out equations that he was getting from this off-world intelligence and writing them down but he didn't know what he was writing but pewaric did know what he was writing it did know that what he was writing was really high level math stuff that he could have had no way to know the uh uh something that jacqueline brings up that's really interesting about the information that yuri geller gets is that the this being says that it is from millions of light years in the future and that's interesting because that's not what light years are light years are a unit of distance it's how far light can travel in a year but this thing said i'm from light years into the future and that's interesting because yuri geller earlier like a couple years earlier in an interview made that same mistake and referred to light years as a unit of time so yuri geller misunderstood light years and then this being that he's channeling also misunderstands light years which would make someone go to okay so this guy is just lying then but there's just too much other evidence that he's not lying there's too much other evidence that he does have information that he shouldn't have jacques villa kind of lightly implies that he thinks he thinks that these beings these beings that people channel they tap into the knowledge of the people that are around and so it was using this what yuri geller conceptualized as a really long unit of time to describe it despite the fact that it was never a unit of time and he was also drawing on pure pewaric who was around when yuri geller was writing out the mathematical equations because although yuri didn't know him pewaric did and jacquesville sees this as a common thread when you look at these cases of people channeling beings that they have access to the information and to the memories of the people that are around and are willing it to be there so he brings up that although there is definitely some truth to this sort of thing happening to channelers and to people doing automatic writing you can't take everything that they say as truth because it's not and they seem to be willing to lie about things just to mess with us and he brings up a lot of like several i guess the religious movements are like really small religious movements some would call them cults of people that will just sort of form around one person who has these prophecies about the end of days and people form around these people because this person knows things that they couldn't possibly know and so people get convinced when they see some sort of miracle or when this person has some sort of prediction that does come true people start following that person and that's a that's a classic story of like cults forming around this person that claims that they're some sort of prophet and in the past i've always you know you just sort of dismissed those as that guy is lying the guy's lying because he wants to beg everyone's wife that's usually what you think it is but it could be that what's going on is that this person is not lying but then they are getting lied to and so they're just channeling lies and then eventually when like he talks about this one case of this woman who's channeling this being and develops this big group of people around her that are believing in the prophecy of when the end of days is coming and they make a big stink about this and they it gets covered a little bit seriously but more mockingly that like this woman's predicting the end of the world and then the end of the world doesn't happen and you would think that what happens there is that people then abandon that idea but in a lot of cases these in the case of this woman in particular it just strengthened their resolve that we did it we saved the world by alerting the world that the world was going to end and so a lot of this channeling stuff feels very much like people getting played with like play things of the gods is what it seems like it is yeah there was an interesting quote about spirits and i we talked about when we were reading the john chang when we talked about the john chang books that according to john chang a ghost can't lie and a ghost seems like it falls under the category of spirits but a ghost is like a dead person the soul of a person that has died but this is sort of a different statement about spirits and how they act when spirits begin to speak with a man he must be aware that he believes nothing that they say for nearly everything they say is fabricated by them and they lie for if they're permitted to narrate anything as what heaven is and how things in the heavens are to be understood they would tell so many lies that a man would be astonished that was a swedish mystic emmanuel swedenborg so if you do have interactions with some sort of spirit that gives information you've got to be careful with that stuff because it's not necessarily the truth because they do like to mess with people it seems like and then that leads me to what jacquesville thinks of the ufo phenomenon at this point what he kind of thinks it is because a big part of this book is that he it's it's really hard to categorize it one way if you try to make a certain conclusion about oh these these are aliens in a ship that doesn't really fly because there's other parts of it that don't fit with that and so it's it's always hard to define exactly what's going on and what jacqueline thinks is that that's kind of deliberate and that the ufo phenomenon is something like a control system and he he likens it to like a thermostat if it gets too cold then the heater comes on if it gets too hot then the ac comes on and what he thinks is that because there are waves of ufo reports that happen and people what he thinks is that when belief gets high that then the ufo reports stop and the ufos interactions stop and they go down and when it gets too low then it's brought back up like oh there's this unknown thing going on so he thinks a lot of this stuff and like interactions with other beings interaction with any kind of beings he lumps a lot of this into there seems to be some sort of spiritual control system on humanity to make us believe but not prove this unknown thing going on in the world and i think that's a really interesting idea [Music] that was mostly what i wanted to go over with the book that's a lot of the big data from it do you have any questions or do you know what else jack valet has done like who is this guy what what uh do you know more about his career a little bit yeah i mean well like well since this since this he has stayed involved in the ufo phenomenon and he mentions that since he was a young man the other thing that he's also been really interested in besides ufos is psychic abilities and that up until this book he's tried to keep those things totally separate because he he has always felt tempted to try and compare those things or to try and put those things as though they're together when they may not necessarily be but that this is him kind of exploring a connection between those two things so he's been involved in a lot of psychic research at times too he's now involved with tom delong's ufo program he helped with with close encounters of the third kind which was a spielberg movie about well it very much went into like the psychic idea of interactions with ufos because in the movie a guy is driving down the road in his truck and he sees a ufo and then afterwards he's obsessed with it even though not much happened with it he like saw a beam of light come down and then afterwards he's obsessed with ufos and it's it's all he can talk about his family ends up leaving him but still he's just completely focused on this uh and then he spends the movie trying to like sneak onto like a a government a government controlled area where they uh have gotten some kind of clue that there's gonna be a ufo that shows up and he like well spoiler alert he ends up getting like voluntarily abducted he like goes on board the ship and the end of the movie because that's what he's been obsessed with doing since he saw the ship so jacqueline kind of explores that psychic idea in a hollywood movie afterwards but yeah it seems like most of his life since then has been focused on the ufo phenomenon and he's written many more books this was his fourth book about ufos and there's there's at least there's at least five more after that he's released a bunch of books that are like actually his journals of his travels throughout different like when he's like going to investigate ufos he like made journals of them and so you can buy journals of like this is the journals from from 1969 to 1976 of like everything that he was documenting through that time so he's just written a lot more books about it too wow that's dope yeah my favorite takeaway from that book i don't remember where it happened in the book but uh somebody was channeling some higher intelligence whether it's a spirit or alien or whatever and asked it a question and it responded the answer to that question falls too far outside of the current human constellation of ideas do you remember that yeah well there was i think that that i think what you're talking about was in here and i don't remember that specific line but that sort of idea that like the the alien that it was that the person was communicating with was basically warning them don't try and make this a religion don't abandon your ideas or your cultural norms and try to make this your new cultural norms because you're developing the way you need to develop and it sort of discourages this person from getting too obsessed and trying to make this something bigger than it is yeah wow yeah so i've had a psychotic break or spiritual episode before right where i uh at least according to my experience communicated with something psychically that was transcendent of me and my whole reality that told me things and then getting obsessed with the things that i learned in that psychic experience i drew me to wander away from my own worldview such that i became clinically insane and when i heard in that book that higher intelligence articulate that you can't learn an idea that falls outside of your constellation of ideas it was a light bulb moment about what it meant to go insane through a transcendent religious experience it was something like i heard ideas that fell so far outside of my own constellation that i became attached to them and abandoned my own constellation and the way that i cured the way that i was cured of that insanity was by studying teachers like jordan peterson and alan watts who have a coherent world view that grasps those transcendent ideas i experienced and were able to paint a coherent constellation of ideas that included them yeah so that i could build a bridge between the transcendent ideas i had jumped to and the basic world view that allows me to get up in the morning brush my teeth go to bed on time and all that crap and so that was that was a light bulb moment for me because i think if we want to achieve a higher frequency or expand our world if you become more open-minded think in a higher higher dimensional way we need to do some seeking and then do some bridge building so find an idea that that is a mind blowing to us because it falls outside of what we know yeah but then make sure that we connect the dots so that our existing world view encompasses and incorporates that new transcendent idea rather than leaving it on the outskirts and i think that's where religious obsessions and religiosity and fundamentalism comes from sometimes when people can't think rationally because they're attached to an idea that transcends their rational world view so like like peterson articulates in his book maps of meaning there's an aspect of our brain that confronts the unknown and then an aspect of our brain that makes order out of that unknown so you have to go back and forth back and forth back and forth discover explore adventure confront chaos yeah stop think connect dots draw a cohesive picture once your world view is cohesive enough that you're bored and you need a new transcendent idea to spice it up then go into explore mode yeah but once your mind is all blown and your head is spinning now stop now re now reconstruct your worldview and incorporate that new information okay now you're bored again now you can confront but now that i i know i can articulate deeper religious ideas now than i could when i was insane not because i wasn't experiencing something transcendent but because what i was the transcendent ideas i was experiencing weren't things that i could articulate or rationalize so most the time that i'm learning now i'm thinking about that constellation and something that uh man unfortunately i can't remember who said this quote um all true maps must converge okay yeah so if you have a bunch of ideas but it's a cool quote yeah so if you have a bunch of ideas about theology and a bunch of ideas about evolution and a bunch of ideas about the history of art and that that's all great to have all these different ideas that fall into these different realms of information the way that you figure out what's true and what's false about your constellations in those different realms of information is to is to meta think beyond those realms of information and try to incorporate all of them into a rational worldview yeah so i think people would be better off if if they studied for example the the judeo-christian mythology of creation and then the evolutionary insights on creation and then took those maps those two individual maps and mapped them over each other to see where they converged and where they didn't what's what truth is expressed in what we know scientifically and in what we've prophesied in our religious traditions where do they converge yeah i think that's one of the keys to building a consistent constellation of ideas and i think these higher intelligences are willing to feed us new ideas but but nobody's just calling up an angel and getting all the information because right that's not how life works it's a process right you know we're on this finite timeline where you can move forward one step at a time if you want to move ahead 10 steps be my guest but be careful what you wish for because you're going to be looking back at your rational world view you used to have and being like how the am i going to get back there you know and that idea of like needing to venture into the chaos venture into the unknown and order it or make it known it it reminds me a lot of the idea of this control system that it's not going to just park on the on the white house lawn and do do a podcast with rogan because that's not where we're at right now right so instead we get to see a little bit of the unknown some of us see some things but not enough for everybody to agree like oh no this is definitely real because we wouldn't be able to handle that yet right maybe we will eventually maybe it's pulling us farther and farther and closer and closer to being able to grasp that idea which i think is very similar to what diana pasulka was saying in american cosmic with her uh comparison to what happens in 2001 a space odyssey that those monoliths are pulling us forward into words towards new technologies pulling us uh out farther into space that the ufo phenomenon may be doing that same kind of thing it may be making us reminding us that like no there's still a lot you don't know and pulling us forward technologically uh and spiritually yeah yeah yeah some people say i wish the government would just tell us the truth about ufos no they got to keep that to themselves it's very possible that we really wouldn't be able to handle it no and it's also possible that they don't totally know the truth they have some data about it and there are many people out there that have other data but we're just not all sharing it with each other not just the governments but like different private groups of people too that like there is a lot of truth that's out there but we haven't put it all together yet uh but i agree that probably the amount of information that the government has is not something we'd be able to handle yet yeah and that's uh that's a big part of of tom delong's uh just said to the stars academy that he's working with the government and what tom delonge is basically saying is that we really that he does know a lot of the truth and that he genuinely doesn't think we'd be able to handle it right now and to the stars academy is partly like a ufo research thing but also it's like a gradual disclosure project yeah so they're doing weird things where they're like releasing books that are based on true events that are like the the technology and the way that ufos work is correct in it to make people more used to it and they're planning on doing movies to that effect and just warming us up to the idea but by putting ufos and aliens more and more into culture right and then releasing information bit by bit about what's going on yeah they've also released several non-fiction books about information that they've gotten from the government so if to the stars academy is legit then disclosure is happening there they have to roll it out at a certain pace yeah which isn't unreasonably radical to me because it's exactly what we do with our children you know we a we give them information as we feel the mature enough to process it yeah and b and in addition to a without we know that giving them new information does psychological harm to them and we only give them enough that they can recover from that psychological harm right to a form that's healthier than before they got the information yeah just like you can tear apart your muscles and they'll grow back bigger but if you tear them apart too much you're just going to injure them same kind of thing yeah i'm going to traumatize my child and tell him that black people are being killed by the police but i'm not going to traumatize my child and tell him that genocide is being committed in sri lanka you know like i'm going to give them enough information that they have to struggle to grasp it and then once they've gotten there give them a little more totally but b the other common thread is that we act out ideas with our kids before we expose them to the fact that those ideas are more real than we're saying like we might have play nerf fights yeah with our kids with toy guns and then we tell them one day it's actually necessary for us to have a military of people who go overseas and kill people and we hold these people in these positions in high regard because of the necessity of that very ugly aspect of society and then the kids are like whoa what the you know yeah but the the fact that they've already had nerf wars means they understand oh yeah i shoot you shoot guns each other and then they grow up they're like oh that's real there's really gun fights happening like we act it out and then we expose them to the reality we tell them just as much as they can handle and that's exactly what the government should be doing with us yeah help us act it out if we can watch signs you know freaky ass movie yeah then maybe one day we could understand wait that wasn't we weren't just acting that was this is real too yeah and i i feel i feel like over i mean this may just because of because of my interest in it and that's what i'm noticing more and more but i do feel like i'm seeing more and more references to aliens and in movies and even in kids movies that like aliens showing up is just like a punch line sometimes there's just a flying saucer just just for fun why not that that may be just getting us more and more used to it or i'm maybe just seeing what i what i want to see right but so well two elements to that first of all i think that our we're subconsciously aware of things that are coming and there's an element of entertainment that's prophetic like we have been concerned about robots taking over the planet since before we could articulate that artificial intelligence was a real threat but terminator movies helped prepare us for that oh wait artificial intelligence is actually a threat to our way of life oh okay like terminator it gives us something to grasp on to right but also if you track the people who own disney and the media and the fact that they all meet in the bilderberg group and the trilateral commission and the foreign for com for for foreign foreign council for foreign relations these people meet up and put ideas together and they say that they're just doing it to encourage international cooperation and collaboration right and sorry but but people with hundreds of million dollars are not that uh casual about meetings they don't do anything if it's not productive and for a purpose and yeah so most of the conspiracies about groups like that where media superpowers like disney cnn and fox all hang out you know a few times a year a lot of the conspiracies are about engineering ideology but i think some of it could be things of that nature hey we have truths that we need to start putting out content to expose people to yeah that could be another thing that those groups are are doing i don't think everything that they're doing is evil you know i think some of it is just like well those are the grown-ups yeah those are billionaires you know i have a hundred and eighty dollars in my bank account like they have a billion dollars and an audience of a billion people those are the grown-ups and they're trying to figure out what the hell to do with this planet and so right so some of it might be like that that they're doing yeah and that's exactly what that's exactly like what tom delonge has expressed like what he's the ideological uh growth he's gone through is that early on when he was getting into the ufo stuff he was viewing the government as just the bad guy that's lying to us to hide this stuff but as he got deeper into it he felt like no the government is actually doing a good job of revealing this slowly and i do think that this is where it's going and he wants to be the person that can offer them like a way to do this a way to do this gently through uh historical fiction about ufos and then a little bit of non-fiction and then more historical fiction and just work people into the idea that way and to also work work people into the idea that uh the government wasn't the villain in all of this the government was doing the best they could with what are some really scary truths about there being beings that uh have a lot of control over our lives in ways that we don't really understand that they're guiding society in ways that we don't totally get right same thing when we grow up and come into a genuine partnership you know with our dad for example it's like there's a point in my development where i'm like big mean man bad right now and now i'm looking back i'm like well he didn't feed me sugary cereal you know he made me do my chores like he was a grown-up you know we'll probably come to a point like that with the government where yeah we're looking back on an era like this we can say yeah maybe they babied us a bit yeah maybe they lied too much maybe this and that just like you look back on your dad and this isn't our example but like man it turns out my dad is a raging alcoholic i didn't even know you know right you look back on the way you grew up uh with hindsight and you realize that i think it's the same thing with the government we're gonna look back and realize they were imperfect and up a lot of things and then a lot of things they did were for a purpose yeah and if what tom delong is saying is right we're going to feel that way really soon within the next couple years is what he's saying yeah i think so i hope so my pastor the brent the pastor here at eastlake he was asking me if i think aliens are real yeah i was like you're gonna see an interview with an alien in like 10 years right he's like you think mark my word we'll see maybe it's very possible yeah night school yeah night school i don't got anything else thank you