EXCLUSIVE: New UFO Whistleblower Comes Forward

Transcript

What's up vettors? Patrick here with Vetted. Today I have a very special episode for you because today I have an interview to share an interview with someone who up till now has remained anonymous and unfortunately through this interview will remain anonymous as well except with one stipulation which you'll hear about at the very end of the interview. So this could be part one of part two or could end here. Now you may be wondering what are you talking about Patrick? Well, talking about this former deputy director of Arrow Tim Phillips went on MC West podcast not too long ago and in that podcast he talked about someone who essentially tried to extort the US government of UAP materials and described him as basically a crackpot who he wouldn't bring his family around. I was frustrated by some of the claims made by witnesses um to members of Congress.

I I know that we had people referred to us. Um one particular individual um we thought he was extorting us. You know, we were going to uh uh pay him for his knowledge or his materials or he was going to take it to a foreign country. It sounded like extortion to us and reported it to our FBI counterparts. And by the way, we actually had at various times FBI um you know agents or analysts who were part of the Euro staff.

So we did work very very closely with the FBI. Um, so >> so that was some physical material that he had. But uh, >> it was it was and I actually went back to members of the of this uh member's staff saying they should, you know, they they should protect the member from this individual. It wasn't fair to him um to give him an audience. I I didn't, you know, I I am not a medical professional.

Um, but what I heard, um, based off common sense, I wouldn't want him around my family. >> Well, the person he was talking about, nobody has known who that is until now. And this is his very first public interview. He goes by the pseudonym Michael. The things he had to say in this interview, if true, are absolutely minds.

The rumor I've heard is that you and maybe a group filmed something back in the early 2000s. Um, and also that you somebody took a rock and threw it at it and a piece fell off, but you collected it. That's the rumor floating around. Just FYI. Is that is that how true is that? >> So, well, like all rumors, there's some truth in there.

So, I'm going to go into some things I haven't mentioned before, but are vitally important to what people need to know about what's going on. One is that SSCI and Arrow don't give a [ __ ] about your UFO stories. There's a lot of other things going on, and I know people don't like secrets, but there are things that were said and happened in that skiff that if it was to get out, it would ruin people's career. Soon as they run around the corner, that staff member took the folder, came over the guy I was standing next to who was a high up, asked him what to do with it, and that guy literally said, "Put it in the trash." And he went and put in the trash. Then the guy said, "That doesn't look good.

Put it through the shredder." Shredded the [ __ ] thing. Never made it to the senator. This is your bombshell. >> All right. >> Senator Rounds talks a lot about me, but people don't understand that because they don't know who I am.

and they don't know what I told them. I was told that literally everything he says in the new age of disclosure film is for me and him's relationship over two years. I've got the guy's cell phone. All right, batters. Please hit that like button.

That really helps out the videos. And of course, if you're not already subscribed, hit that subscribe button, y'all. I'm trying to get to 100,000 subscribers by the end of the year. All right, Michael. Well, listen.

Thanks for coming on Vetted here and um willing to talk to me. I do appreciate it. >> Yeah, I'm glad you had me on and eventually we'll be able to go to a visual, but for now I'll have to still remain hidden a little bit. >> That's all good. You you made that clear to me ahead of time.

So, just so the audience knows that that's all set up. It wasn't like, you know, you you you sprung that on me at the last second. This was all set up. Totally agreed to it and I respect it 100%. And you know I was kind of thinking about this Michael before you know uh preparing for this interview.

I thought, you know, where do we start here? You know, um what's the background, right? Like what what are people how are people going to know about this story? Like why are you coming on? What what are we going to talk about? And for me, it's been basically Tim Phillips, who was the deputy director of Arrow, said some things about you. At the time, we didn't know who it was. I mean, I even covered it on my channel. uh he said some things about you that you basically vehemently disagree with and that's kind of what we're here to discuss. I'm sure we'll get into other things of course I would love to uh but am I correct there? >> Yeah, I would say you that's exactly it.

You know my whole position on this even though it's been going on for years is to intentionally remain in the shadows with what I'm doing as a business. And when he came out and said what he did, it then started the definition of insanity, which is this sort of maximum accusations >> out of the blue. He's talking about staff members telling them stuff, backstabbing, and then here we are trying to cover decades of work from kind of the middle piece of the uh story >> and go as we do. >> Sure. And and basically just, you know, I'll steal man the accusation back to you.

You can tell me if I'm right or correct, you know. That's correct. But he basically I mean the way I understood it because I'm the audience. I think this is what a lot of people understood about it. So that's why it's good that you're here to help clear it up because the way I understand it is Tim Phillips accused you of trying to extort the American government which is a bonkers accusation.

Right. Is that basically the gist of it? >> Correct. So Tim Phillips who in his own words was a SCES which means in his own words again that he served at the pleasure of the president. That's the level of position we're speaking about here. Who was still at the time actually collecting a paycheck even though he was in the deferred program >> for whatever reason went on a podcast and essentially ended up being a chapter title actually is that >> he got asked a question following some conversation to do with Luna and Berles which was what was it like to deal with the UAP caucus? A question that had nothing to do with witnesses.

Um, keep in mind I had only dealt with the Senate and for some reason he kind of went through a little bit of a word salad and some jerky movements and then answered with an answer that had nothing to do with the question and the answer was he was bothered by some witnesses um statements and then went on to say that uh I had physical material pieces. He confirmed that and that uh either they were going to pay me for my knowledge or I was going to take them to a foreign country. It sounded like extortion to him and then even continued on further with my mental state. And it was as much as a shock as it was to everyone watching this. I was in the same seat.

So was my attorney. So were the government funding people we worked with. That came out of left field. No one was expecting that. >> Oh, really? Okay.

So that's interesting. So for you that was a shock for him to say that. >> Complete and total shock. I mean, when he started to ramble through that, um, my phone was blowing up and it was amazing. I can't go into everybody that was texting me, but let's just say a lot of people that were very close, um, to what was going on, >> sure.

>> Were were shocked and had already heard of it, too. So, it Yeah, that was out of complete left field allegation. Did didn't he say something about um you know there was an investigation into it or something? Yeah, I mean he really uh I mean first he made it a point to bring that up that had nothing to do with the question and then he he made it definitely it was leading to say that uh they had turned it over to the FBI and then it kind of then started rambling on that uh the chairman of that committee which would have been SSCI sent him to the Nevada Test Range uh essentially over what I had done because they were worried that um programs on record had been compromised. So, he really left it out as this um big whoop to do that I was in the wrong. They were investigating it.

But he also made it very quick. He made it sound like well they they came to him uh a member of the committees which would have been SSCI to interview and they did and that's not at all what happened. You know, it was over a two-year process. I mean, Tim wasn't even there when I started going in in early 23, and the last time I was in the SSCI skiff was January of this year, 2025. So, you know, again, the way he tried to shorten that story and form an opinion is so wrong and so misleading.

>> Sure. I mean, that's that's why I'm glad you're coming on so we can discuss this. There's always two sides to a story, and definitely a person who's being accused of something like that has every right uh to come out and defend themselves. a you know thousand% which is why I wanted to to you know to talk to you. I thought you absolutely are owed um that right to in your own words to sort of um uh maybe yeah shine some light on on this.

So so what is what's the real story? >> Yeah, if you have time let me kind of jump in here. So >> yeah absolutely take it away. little bits and pieces of this art. So, I'll try not to make it too long, but to get to the Tim Phillips part, um, we had developed technology over decades that had the ability to pick up a lot of things in the air, uh, that aren't there unless you can prove they're there. Um, and some of those ended up being what we're referring to as UAP, where you have the flight characteristics that um, like from the NITS encounter, which is not what we refer to as traditional or a lot of people immediately think maybe off-world.

And so, >> what when you say pick up, I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt. just just for me >> pick up on radar for tracking identification photos videos uh GPS coordinates with the date and time so they can use their own methods and satellites and whatnot to you know data links to to verify that. So >> we try to sell directly to the military because that's what our point was. We're we're not picking up anything that I would say is um nonhuman or alien or anything like that. So it's not like a disclosure thing.

Now the technology secrets I have some issue with but point being we went through the military they were very interested in what we had but it was not in the sense of um wanting to purchase it. It was throwing us into every possible investigative branch they had afosi NCIS cyber command I mean IG's and it was pretty poor treatment. Now keep in mind that me and my group were essentially civilians. So due to jurisdiction, we ended up at the FBI office with the Department of Justice and attorneys all around. To explain our story, we went through the story there over a couple hours.

The FBI agent came on hard, which they normally do. Senator Rounds would later say it was the good cop, bad cop routine. He was the bad cop. So he accused us of all sorts of stuff right at the table. The Department of Justice at the end said, "I'm clearing you guys.

you've done nothing wrong. You have something that the United States wants, but you have a right as a business to sell that to them. They can't just charge you with something because they don't like your abilities. Um, and so that was it. That's where that ended.

And it was such a negative um long drawn out process through all this that I did contact um Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and Senate Armed Service Committee. to complain about the treatment. >> I mean, we were trying to help out, not do anything wrong. So, I ended up getting contact back from Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, who was interested in just one word that I said, and that was UAP. And that was about uh early 2023 when they were kind of ramping up their whole investigation into this.

So, they asked for me to come in. Um, I brought a couple people with me as a company. They understood that at the beginning, the whole story. We were a business looking for a deal because we had the goods and we had information they wanted. Came in, briefed them.

Uh, they then drove us over to Arrow. That would have been May of 23. Uh, we spoke to Arrow well past 5:00. I don't even remember what time it was when we got out of there. It could it would have went to midnight if we'd have let it.

>> Yeah. And basically the pro the problem we kept running into is we had to keep telling them like we don't work for you guys. That's the whole point. >> Um and they they knew exactly too we were a business. So at some point in time in a business you can't just every time tell them exactly how you're doing what you're doing exactly the information you got.

Now we gave them coordinates and date all the verification stuff. Right. So at the end of that meeting, we agreed with Arrow that both of us were interested in national security. We'd had a lot of foreign contacts that that would be our starting point to work together. So they would give us DoD dropbox.

We turn over all the contacts, you know, phone numbers, emails, wherever it came from. And that was our relationship. And there were some pretty nasty ones that came in. you know, there were death threats that came in that OSI ended up verifying uh from more than one country. Um, a lot of financial offers came in and at one point in time, I think I've shared that some a little bit online.

Even Dr. Kurpatre wrote me directly um over Chinese nationals offered money if I would work with OSI basically get these guys off the street. That's the true story of what was going on before Tim Phillips showed up. So Tim Phillips showed up. I believe it was October is what he has down.

Um I've never spoke to Tim Phillips ever. >> Oh wow. >> I don't have I don't have any emails from him. Um >> yeah, >> never called me >> during what his very last uh podcast he did. It sounds like he says that uh he interviewed me or I met him or something like that.

I've never met him. I mean, again, the story just keeps um rolling on. So, no idea, right? Uh I was in contact with with Arrow through that time, different dropboxes. You got to turn in who approaches you. All that information.

Um they thanked me for it. You know, I think I've shared one too online that says, "Michael, thanks for keeping these pieces of material away from our groceries. You know, thanks for the contacts you sent in." I mean it was a working relationship. >> Sure. >> Uh >> why would he say this? You think why why would he >> Well, it comes down to really the end is the end and that is that SSCI actually never trusted Era.

And I think that's evident even when you look at the um Rush Foye that came out where you've got Kurpatre talking back and forth saying I basically don't think you guys are sending us the people you promised to and holding up your part. That's really how it was operating. >> Yeah. you know, so all of a sudden with all these deals that were being promised um the various senators in the room with us in the skips with us, they came to a point where they realized frankly, oh [ __ ] these guys have technology that defeats multiple things. Just for instance, stealth.

You know, there's planes uh on order right now to be built that are supposed to be 700 million each. will probably come in around a billion each. You have trillions of dollars of assets. Our two of the most expensive programs we ever run are both stealth jets. >> Sure.

>> And now you're sitting across the table from a guy that's just ruined all that. And that's not even our whole portfolio. >> So you have developed a a technology that could >> change the world pecking order, right? >> Yeah. Um, for anyone that's familiar with battle, for those that aren't, it's the same um, situation, which is that the motto in battle or conflict or war is when the air, win the battle. That's the number one key to any battle.

So, if you lose that, >> you're in trouble. >> It's over. >> Keep in mind why this was going on. This is highly important. The same people we've been working with even now after this briefed SSCI on how to fund this.

These are government people. So >> sure >> again there was never any sort of extortion. Um unless you're going to accuse your own employees of extorting you which they wouldn't. I mean the audacity of the story is just mindboggling. >> Sure.

So we got to that point and it seemed like they felt that it was better to go back to their old methods. You know, we had been told by one of the senators that we had a sitting senator on both senate armed services and intelligence in our corner and that's very rare in his own words and it is to defend us against the invention secrecy act which is what we were fighting and he did confirm with basically the Pentagon that that's what the plan had been to take this from us. So, we were kind of forced into working with them >> and we felt like they had good intentions, but at the end it seemed like with some staffing changes and some committee leadership changes, >> they just wanted to go back to the old invention secrecy act. It'd be easier for them because the nastiness part of that is once they get it, you don't have to sign anything. You're automatically in the NDA.

Anything you bring up or say about it, you couldn't even talk to your spouse about it. You can't even really go to court about it is a violation. You're talking federal prison time, millions and fines. In other words, they're going to shut you up. They're going to take what you have.

And that seems to be what they wanted. I don't want to drag on too long here, but right before this all happened, we were notified that um from actually Senator Round staff that we should seek uh legal counsel and it was kind of a shock. We're like, "What do you mean? That's a weird email to get." >> Sure. >> Been recommended to him that we seek legal counsel. >> Wow.

>> So, we got talking a little bit and ended up being over the whistleblower protection this whole time. Everything we signed said we had it. We were told we had it. We still qualified. You know, spill the beans.

Um, so I checked over at Arrow OSI with my contact over there, the embedded OSI, and he said, "Yeah, um, because you guys are military contractor clearance holders, you have no whistleblower protection on privacy act protection." >> And so this was some of the the backstabbing that was going on. So right now what Tim's doing although not ethical is actually legal because he's not violating the the whistleblower protection. If you listen to him and every one of his podcast multiple whistleblowers are brought up and some of the names you think oh man here's where Tim's going to let loose because we know some of the testy relationships with whistleblowers and arrow but he doesn't. He always says something to the fact that Arrow or the United States government doesn't want to disparge people from coming in talking. You know, recently on my Twitter, I released his um write up of his first meeting he had at the round table invite only.

He's saying things like, you know, I'm a guy from Tucson. You know, I treat anybody that comes in with respect and we're not biased and I'd give you my phone number if I could. You know, good old boy Tim. But this is what happens when they realize you got them by the balls. They come after you.

And so again, this is all we were blindsided. But it does explain a little bit about what happened at the end because the end was supposed to be we were refusing to come back in to have a meeting in Skiff because it just didn't look like the deal was going anywhere. They continually wanted more information. >> Yeah. >> They're the ones that asked for the photos.

They're the ones that wanted the video. They're the ones that gave us the assignment to go out and get it. So that's all on them. That wasn't a first skiff meeting sort of deal. And then at the end of it, we basically said, "We're not coming in unless we have an agreement." And you sent it to us.

We'll have attorney look it over, right? Sign it. We'll come in. Got a personal call from Senator Rounds. Um sat here just him, not like I'm so and so. Let me let me get you to Senator RS.

Just him calling us directly from his phone. you know, promised not all these things. He said he had the top IC and the top military in the same room. These people had never been in the same room together. They all had access to my folder, my TSSCI folder.

They would know who's was what. I would come in that one of his employees, his staff, Dan, would hire the logistics. Come in for a couple days. He'll introduce you to all these various people, whether it be DARPA or these or that funding people. uh you know the handoff, that sort of thing.

And then he said, "If anything ever happens the whole way through, they know I'm watching them, but you get back to me if you feel like they're trying to take it." They told me they wouldn't take it. I'm watching. And we get up there and it's like they asked us all the questions at the skiff in January. Some pretty vital information. You know, there's a massive problem with insider trading.

Imagine knowing what you'd want to bid in on the stock market for the secret sauce of this technology, that sort of information, you know. >> Yeah. And then what came was they refused to have the final call at the end with the funding. The funny guy was going to come back in on conference to get this done. They literally just said, "Well, it's not happening today." And we were kind of like, "Okay, well, we got we got our own funding people.

You know, we're going to hand them off to you." We said, "Oh, all right." And we got an email couple weeks later that basically said, "Posing out the skiff. Here's four generic addresses, you know, mill kind of like.com generalized. DARPA.com, it's not dot com, but that sort of, you know, >> yeah, >> where would you start on a front page of, you know, >> Sure. >> funding. I mean, it's worthless like Google results.

So, >> yeah, >> that was the end of it. And so, until Tim really spilled the beans with the backstabbing and whatnot, we still had to piece it together after that. >> Sure. Wow. So let just I want to make sure that I understand the story again just for the audience.

I'll kind of steel man it back make sure I I heard you correctly. Um basically the idea is that you developed a technology that they wanted um and you went in to talk to them about it and they kind of agreed, okay, yeah, we we can pay you for this. And then they kind of pulled the rug on that and maybe brought in this secrecy act where the government could come in and take something you've invented free of charge essentially take it from you and shut you up and they basically keep it. And that's essentially what had happened to you. But you thought maybe there was a deal that you could you know make a deal with the government to to get something for this technology you had developed.

>> Yeah, that's pretty much the gist of it. I mean we were always dealing with the invention secrecy act. It was always a problem, but there was protection offered. >> Sure. >> Uh, and so that looked like the path to go.

Um, you know, there's a lot of other things going on and I know people don't like secrets, but there are things that were said and happened in that skiff that if it was to get out, it would ruin people's career. And that's at the highest level. We're talking about the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, not some low-level, you know, manure caucus or something. And if that happened, you could have a swing pretty fast. I guarantee the leadership of these committees and the committee standings would be knocked down.

And that's the sort of stuff that they panicked at. I wasn't planning on coming out saying any of it, just so we're straight here. >> Sure. um >> you just felt like you had to defend your name. >> As you can tell, I'm pretty good at keeping secrets.

Um yeah, and that was just part of how things had to happen. So, I think that was another panic because they were like, >> before he starts talking, >> let's make sure we tell everybody he's crazy and he's selling technology to the other side, >> let's try and ruin him before he says anything. So, there's multiple layers here. >> Wow. >> Um and it turned into this massive mess.

Sure. Like what kind of stuff are they I guess I know you can't talk about I guess I What's the best way to pull this thread a little bit like I guess I'm curious. >> Le let's put it this way. I was never in any skiff without a witness for a reason. At least one witness.

>> Okay. >> And keep in mind anything I've ever said I've always been more than glad to be polygraphed on. And so they know they're screwed in some senses. Um, so when that happens, unfortunately by human nature, most people default to let me get my slander out first. >> Sure.

So they're worried about things they said to you, >> right? >> There's things were said happen in a skiff that would be >> damning. I mean, it would be front page news everywhere. >> Like, is it about the government? Is it about you? Just you specifically, UAPs? Like I guess that's what I'm confused about. I guess people listening like what >> it's hard to get it's hard to get into without directly talking about it. But >> sure.

>> Um first and foremost I guess what I'll say is this. I can't really get into the nitty-gritty but and this has been pointed out to me. You know when we went in everything we signed was in the format for contractors or military. There was no setup for us the only civilians to ever go in. They didn't write new legal contracts, nothing like that.

So, we just got the same thing all those people got. >> Got it. >> We got the verbal thing said to us we have to agree to which is like now that the skiff door is closed, you're relieved of all NDAs, but soon as that skiff door opens, they're immediately back on you for life. Well, we don't have any. But that's just the process of going through as the only civilians.

Nothing was set up. So with that said, they just handled it like they normally would. So you know, my folder that they would get out when we came in and put on the table and we go through the information in it was marked TSSCI by them, not me. And it's held in this skip safe. >> Yeah.

>> None of that should have happened with civilians, but I understand why. I actually don't have a problem with it because as you know when China is issuing a death threat to a US civilian over what he has and Tim's confirmed physical material pieces, it's okay to go ahead and mark that TSSCI even though that may not fit within the legal justification of how you can do that or who you're just playing it safe. >> Got it. So, because rules weren't really um official and they handled it how they want, that really created a free-for-all through the whole process that goes a thousand times that. But that's kind of the method of there's a lot of rules and laws that were not followed or intentionally broke >> to get to this point, which is solving a secret.

So they essentially thought certain things were in place for protection because of the normal protocol they fall with, you know, fall into with dealing with maybe people like yourself who were quote contractors, but you're coming in as civilian, but they they just use the same method as always and then at the end realize, oh [ __ ] >> there was some things we didn't cover or protect ourselves from. >> It's mainly the ending of that because the ending of that is normally I would be locked into not being able to say a word or I'm going to prison. >> Sure. And I think when they finally realized this isn't good, the guy with all the answers can speak. Although they haven't clarified that, we've asked several times, including their legal counsel that was in the skip with us each time, you know.

So that's the worry is that I start talking about what goes on. I mean, I just want to kind of mention this too to people is that, you know, I keep hearing about rules and laws, but it's I'm a proud American by all means, but when you look at the history >> Me too. um just even recently where there essentially the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence was hacked by the intelligence community over an issue that had to do with John Kuryaku who's the gentleman for the CIA that served prison time over torture and even you go into the Snowden thing whether you like him or not other than the fall guy got in trouble. So the people that went said, "No, we're not spying on Americans." Still got their pension in the medals, right? Um, no one gets in trouble. So now you're dealing with their boss.

The Senate left many on television. Who's really going to come in and slap their hand or get them in trouble for breaking rules, right? It just doesn't happen. So they were never worried about it to start with. But now because of the situation all of a sudden that sort of playing it loose um sort of system could really backfire on them which by the way I've got to clear up I haven't released to do that. That's not my intention here.

>> Sure. Um, the same people that briefed them on how to do this as I've also briefed uh Congressman Burlesson when I sat with him recently and Berles has one on record saying I am a patriot and there is some complication getting the deal done. He's kind of straightened it up a little bit. But the same people that want the government to have what I have are still with me finding. It's just the craziness of the Tim Phillips scenario that >> threw this all into a giant mess.

Sure. Of course. Like I guess I I do have a lot of questions that you I'm sure you'll be able to talk about actually because you know I run a UFO channel, right? Like why am I talking to you? Does this you know what I mean? Like what why would you go to arrow? Does this have anything to do with UAP? Like UFOs like why? And if it doesn't why go to arrow? Like you know what I mean? I guess that's right. So, I'm going to go into some things I haven't mentioned before, but are vitally important to what people need to know about what's going on. One is that SSCI and ARO don't give a [ __ ] about your UFO stories.

That it's not don't kill the messenger, right? But I'm just telling you, I've been in a senator's office. You know, we used to use the back door to go in and out. Um, if you're not aware of that, that's how come they that's how they avoid you, right? Sneak out of a back door that's just a white door into the wall. You know that you can't even unless you have a key card. >> Yeah.

>> And then head over to the skiff and back. So, I'm standing in the office. Some members who were armed services members come in. They had been calling. No one had answered.

So, they bought tickets. They came up there. They had a folder of information they wanted to share with the senator who was on the committee. Um they left that with the the staff members at the office and talked to him for a while and they were going to get back in touch and as they walked out of the office I see him kind of give each other the pat on the back sort of you know five soon as they run around the corner that staff member took the folder came over the guy I was standing next to who was a high up asked him what to do with it and that guy literally said put in the trash and he went put in the trash then the guy said that doesn't look good put it through the shredder shred the [ __ ] never made it to the senator. I've talked to the senators and I'm just telling you from can't say a whole lot about what happens in the skiff, but I'll say this, there's a hell of a lot of laughter and jokes about you guys leaving UFOs.

>> Don't kill the messenger, but I'm just telling you >> I've seen people >> choke and have to get a drink on the laughter of repeating some of the stuff that they've been told into. >> Wow. So when you get into things like why has the Senate been all drones and the House has been NHI and abductions? Well, you may not like it, but I'm the reason they switched to drones and I never talked to the House until I got out of um this year dealing with SSCI. So they've been running a different route. So that's the first thing.

Um, I kind of want people to understand even if it's not what they want to hear because you guys are wasting time. If you really think SSCIO, you need to hear that whether you like it or not. >> You're cheering people on, you know, calls of this and I know they're hosting after parties and they're doing this and they're doing that. I'm just telling you it's a load of crap. >> Um, it just is.

>> Uh, so you know, that's the first thing. The second thing is, and this goes back to Tim's allegations, at no point in time did anyone in SSCI or ERO tell me I had to give them the physical material pieces. SSCI asked, see it, right? Never said it's ours. Now, Arrow asked if I would provide it. I didn't provide it to Arrow.

I did ask them, is this legally a request or are you just asking? And they said, >> it's just us asking. We have other people that have said they had material. We have that now. We're going to send that off for testing. The results are going to come back.

We'll bring you in. We'll talk about it. And then the results and the material is yours again. And it does sound like from what I heard that that actually did happen over some missile casing or arch parts or whatever it was they got a hold of. So >> yeah, I remember that.

>> Again, at what point time is it that there's this line where like anything I do is is wrong and horrible, but not them. So lastly, I want to leave you with this, and I guess this is your breaking news because um I know you could get in some trouble. This is your bombshell. >> All right. >> Senator Rounds talks a lot about me, but people don't understand that because they don't know who I am.

They don't know what I told them. I was told that literally everything he says in the New Age of Disclosure film is from me and him's relationship over two years. I've got the guy's cell phone number. When he starts talking about, "Do you think for a minute China and Russia wouldn't try and get this technology?" It's all the same thing came from us. >> He's not talking about UFOs at all.

He's he's talking about Oh, wow. >> I don't know how the film's going to be created, but I'm just telling you. >> Wow. sitting around has had some pretty good laughs over stuff that's coming. So he asked the OD on our behalf based on GPS coordinates and date time stamps if this was theirs and they said no.

This is not our asset. It can be verified. Tim kind of did that. You know, he breaks stuff apart at the end. He starts saying something to the effect of I can't remember exactly, but you got spooky things in places they shouldn't be with performance characteristics we can't duplicate today.

Well, guess what? That's the same damn thing. Now, what I will say is the next thing Senator Reyn wanted was a data link. And I can't go into that because you can deny >> he wanted to. I'm sorry. >> Data link.

>> How's this thing flying? >> Got it. his his position was they can deny, you know, coordinates and photos and videos and metadata, but they can't deny data. Now, I can't go into that story, but one other thing Senator Round says in one of his other interviews is that it's either a very hidden program or and he kind of puts his shoulders up. So, my position is is that they know enough. I know because I gave it to them that this is ours even though they don't necessarily have the jurisdiction they wanted over it.

So because of that, it's still a UAP. Like we know what UAP means, right? >> Sure. >> It's still unidentified, unexplained. >> Sure. >> Unclaimed.

>> Sure. >> So that is why I still use UAP. And then just kind of an end note to that, I was against the UAPDA. It's the only time in my life I've ever seen anyone cheer on imminent domain to start with. That's never like a cheer point for the general population.

>> Sure. >> If you read through that, it says >> the latest one that says anything that is essentially they don't know where it's from. doesn't say it has to be NHI or anything. It would just become their prop. Any piece and there's like a thousand things listed on there of the definition of pieces.

If you got a spark plug, whatever it may be. >> Yeah. >> So, what the plan there is is that because they don't know where this is from, which is what their claim is, even though they know it's there, that's still their property if that passes. Doesn't matter if it's Russia, China. And then when you take it, it's gone.

They don't have to give you, nor will they, an explanation of what it was or where it came from. So, all evidence is now disappeared legally without them ever having to admit it being theirs. >> Sure, >> people seem to think this is some way to kick down the doors of Locky and that's not how it works because for people that don't understand the government and I'm not getting on to you about it, but it's become pretty evident where even Luna had to be like, "Well, I'm not actually a senator. just to clear this up like it's a complicated mess up there. So the branch that is going to be um like SSCI they need Arrow to actually do things.

They form Arrow. Arrow is supposed to be the ones investigate. They find something and they can kind of send it on to someone to kick down the doors. Arrow has said on record in the report they have found absolutely no material of off-world or reverse engineering or any programs that aren't already notified which means the only thing left for imminent domain is exactly what Tim Phillips said my material it is completely a hit job on that. >> Wow.

So, you know, we keep talking about these pieces and this thing. You know, you know, I guess I don't really know this full story. I've heard rumors. So, I'll tell you the rumor that's out there that I've heard. That way, you could dispel it, right? If it's true or not true.

Like, the rumor I've heard is that you and maybe a group filmed something back in the early 2000s. Um, and also that you somebody took a rock and threw it at it and a piece fell off, but you collected it. That's the rumor floating around. Just FYI. Is that is that how true is that? >> So, well, like all rumors, there's some truth in there.

It's just the relay of um of it. So, yeah, that does need cleared up. And I've tried, but it amazed me how many people in this space have their mind made up and refuse to do any research. Um, >> sure. Sure.

>> And so to clear that up, this is not farmer Bob was in a field and that green guy showed up and you know, this is more than two decades of work with the team that when we used to come in, they used to joke and call us the space cowboys. We got some older guys on us that built for the space program and things in reference to the Clint Eastwood. >> Good movie. Yeah, I was just gonna say great movie. Yeah.

So, we built technology, millions of dollars of technology to be able to track, not once. You're getting into things like tripledigit amount when you get into 20 some years. It doesn't matter if you can track it if you can't bring in the evidence. Sure, you've got GPS and date time. You're going to need photos.

You're going to need videos. We've developed a whole system how to get high quality. And that's just continued on with capturing information, hitting it with different, you know, um, apparatus. I got to be a little bit careful what I say. But the whole idea here is the Einstein quote, which is I really don't care about that phenomenon or this phenomenon.

I just want to know how it works. >> Sure. >> And that's how we've went at. So, we've been able to duplicate. Reverse engineer is not a great word because people think that that's easier than it sounds.

>> Sure. >> Reverse engineering anything is a mess. Um, but when you get a a look at the answer sheet, it helps. So, we've got basically what would be ITAR categories of stealth codings, power sources, weapons, and the radar. So, the radar is the main thing that's catching the attention right now.

But, so this has been a long process. Um, during one of the point times, um, there was a rock drone. Keep in mind if you have something sitting down in front of you like this for say 10 minutes, especially at the beginning and you've hit it with everything you've got because that comes first, right? You want all the results and all the testing, whatever you can get from it, especially when it just works out when you happen to have that with you. Photos, counting everything. I mean, you know, it becomes a question of now what, right? You're standing there, you're looking at this damn thing.

It's doing something that it shouldn't be able to do, right? I mean, it just doesn't make sense. At some point in time, a question comes across your mind, which is not like you're dreaming, but what would happen if I threw something at this? Is there that supposed force field, right? Is it going to bounce off? >> Is this thing going to shoot back at me? >> What sounds it going to make? because you'd be amazed how much you can figure out from the sound of something. >> Is it metal? Is it some sort of carbon fiber? >> Does the rock go through the damn thing, >> right? I mean, who knows? So, >> I'm sorry. >> Uh, it's not about like being the caveman and, you know, seen a giant hawk, you know, uh, and throwing throwing a rock. You know, I used to pitch back in high school.

Um, and, you know, I touched some of the 80s. I'm not what I used to be, but >> yeah. >> So, yeah, that was it. But it wasn't like a rock hit it and a piece fell off sort of um cheesy movie. So, did it help it? I'm sure it didn't, but that's not necessarily the reason.

You know, there was obviously some sort of failure for it sitting there that long before the rock was involved, you know. >> Sure. >> So, yeah. But the rock caused the pieces to come off that you think. >> I don't think the rock is the cause of the piece coming off.

But because a piece came off and a rocks involved, we just >> it correlation. >> As a community, everybody said, "Oh, that's the >> that's the reason that it >> I'm sure it didn't help, but I'm not saying I hit I hit a piece with it and it that same piece fell off automatically." sort of just >> so this so this thing that you film and that a rock gets thrown at and a piece comes off like I want to be careful here because I do want to be clear I love America. Uh national security is very important to me. My father was in the military. My grandfather fought in World War II.

I got cousins in the military. I don't want to push any buttons I'm not supposed to. I love talking UFOs and aliens, but by no means am I trying to uh put the American government or military or national security at stake. I That's way above my pay grade. Way beyond my pay grade.

But I'm curious. I have to ask. I I it would just be crazy if I didn't. Like what are we talking about here that you saw? Was it something ours something you don't know? Like is this on American soil? I I don't know how much you can say, but is this a big thing? Is it >> I think it's important to clear some things up. It may not be the details people want, but it should be some of >> We have never done anything over restricted space or outside of US borders.

>> Got it. >> So there's there's not been any sort of laws broke. We've not snuck into somewhere any of those sort of >> got it. >> Public whatever situ anybody can >> the skies aren't classified, right? >> Sure. >> Yeah.

>> With that said, let's let's use Tim Phillips's talk because he's just kind of the bowels of of Arrow um several times. He says that when he went down and looked at some of this technology, he was amazed because some of the people that had came in had gave exact descriptions of it. >> Yeah. >> Those people felt like it was built by off-world or alien or whatever we're calling it nowadays. >> Yeah.

>> In all actuality, it was built by us. And that's Tim Phillips's own words as >> he described it looked like a cling on battleship. >> Yep, I remember that. >> So, there's your answers for that based on what Tim's um got it out saying. And I'll kind of leave it there because I don't feel like he should have said any of that.

He did. Uh once stuff's out, it is what it is. But >> sure, >> when the whole rock thing happened and the first thing happened, there was an analysis of it. And part of what it was is there's a certain way we nip and tick tuck stuff as humans in us. You know, that was something that Arrol was concerned about is >> they could probably look at it and figure out who built it to a degree.

There's just certain things when you get into aerospace um experts. >> We were still trying to figure out is this human or not? >> Not even ours at that point. Because >> you were you you weren't you weren't even sure. Oh, wow. >> First Yeah.

the first time you ran into it. I mean, you know, it's it's still uh trying to figure out what the hell is this thing, right? >> The first time you ran into it, >> right? We figured out several things of how to track it with the piece with the signature. I don't want to go too much into that, but >> sure, >> we This is not uncommon. I mean, once you figure out paths and tracking, which is why we don't ever give exact dates. Um, again, >> so this wasn't the first time you had run into this.

>> This this time was the first time >> we were trying to figure out who made it. >> Got it. >> The material. And what what we found is that it definitely goes to the human and probably ours. And that's why I don't go into a whole lot of >> information.

Again, if you go back into what um I think it was actually Kirk Patrick said on one of the different interviews is he said, "For those of you that came in and talked to us and you're keeping your encounters private, we thank you." Well, something to that degree. And that's what he's saying is once you start putting out dates and times and coordinates, you know, the first part of radar is not a dish point at the sky. It's algorithm. You figure out what satellites were above it, what the conditions were, what the path's going to be, and then you see if lightning strikes twice. If it does, now you've got more data for the algorithm.

You keep building. So, like that's an important thing >> for people to not let out and that's always been one of the concerns. >> Sure. Wow. So, so you essentially at the beginning you you thought maybe this is something unusual.

I guess you said earlier that you thought um it was doing something it shouldn't be doing. What does that mean? >> Yeah, that deals with the same sort of stuff that's described as the tic tac encounter where you've got something that you don't see any means of the propulsion trail. You're not seeing or hearing the sort of, you know, if you ever been by a jet or a helicopter, it is deafening. >> Absolutely. Yeah, I've been in a helicopter.

>> You don't have that noise. You also have some sort of wash if it's a helicopter. >> A lot of wash on the helicopter. >> Everything's moving. You're talking about blades of grass, you know, 50 foot under that aren't even moving.

Yeah. Um, so >> that's what I'm talking about. You You have to question what it is from that point. Everything you're seeing sure looks like us but or human tech but man you know you're just looking at that thinking I didn't think it was this far advanced and then we were always waiting on like a response team or response team never showed up and so yeah we had questions I mean I think any normal >> human being should have questions. >> Sure.

Do you think this was the tick like the tic tac? Do you think that's what the tic tac is? It's the same because it's around the same time, right? You're saying early 2000s is 2004. >> Yeah. So, Congressman Burlesson had went on a couple different um podcasts and shows and talked about this, so I kind of use his words. Um, which is that we told him there was three generations. Um, I wasn't going to let that out, but he's, you know, once something's out, it's it's out, right? So, the tic tac would have been gen one is what we refer to it as.

Gen two, which is what we seen the first time as generations do have overlap. You don't just park one model and then the next flight. So we're at Gen 3 now. So like when people say they see tic tacs, I don't see how that's possible. That shouldn't be in the air anymore.

It's not that I'm saying it's not just >> Oh, interesting. >> We have progressed quite a bit since the NTS encounter. There's a lot of time there. >> Wow. So it it doesn't even look like a tic tac anymore.

>> Correct. Correct. >> Wow. This is insane. So So essentially what you see so when you go out to to do this that was your goal that day or whatever your team like you were going out to find or you just >> No.

No. We it had to do with a different business. You know I've always been an entrepreneur. I mean I've always worked hard. You know I used to be the VP of a public traded company but I'm still investing.

You know, I'm a self-made kid from a dirt road, right? So, >> yeah. Right on. >> One particular business, and I'm still hands-on. I'm not the boss type that's like, let me hire an assistant, the secretary, you know, I'd rather do it myself, you know. >> Sure.

>> So, um, we were coming home from a work trip with particular van that had a lot of technology in it for business. And uh you get in the early hours of the morning, you see lights and it's kind of one of the things where I thought it was a plane. Um I've got a lot of knowledge in planes, but it was too low. >> Got it. >> But where it was at was too far from a runway.

Shouldn't have been there. So I actually stopped because I didn't want to be in the path of a plane coming in hot, coming in low, crash landing. There's really only so many things that it could have been, you know. >> Wow. >> So, you're sitting there, you're looking at the clock.

If anyone knows planes land and the size of this plane, what if it would have been a plane, I would have said was doing would have been doing over 100 miles an hour coming in to land just normal. It would have got to you quick. >> Yeah. >> And it just didn't. So, then it became the questions of all of us in the van of >> what the is it moving? You know, like what the hell? >> Yeah.

You got the windows down, you hear the crickets, right? Can't hear any noise. So, you're like, "Well, it couldn't be a helicopter." And you're going through it. You're going through it. And then we're like, "You didn't just build like a damn ball field over there." Like, you know, like one of the guys like they like, "Field the dreams." Like, you know, I mean, like, you just got lights in the damn field. You know, I mean, it made no sense.

>> So, we didn't go in like guns ablazing. Uh I'm a very careful um planned individual. >> Sure. >> And so we started to go towards the lights and we did notice it was tracking away from us >> slowly and then eventually we caught up to it and that's where the whole thing >> whole incident occurred. Yeah.

So so it was stationary the whole time you're observing it, >> right? >> Yeah. When we started to go towards it tracked away, but when we got to it and I don't mean I floored it. I was going slow because we're still trying to figure out what the world is this. >> Even though I couldn't hear a noise, my mind was telling me it's a helicopter. >> And I was trying to somehow figure out why I wasn't hearing >> the noise.

>> You know, there's different things where if somebody gets hurt, they may send a helicopter. It's an emergency or you're too far away from town. >> Sure. >> They've got to find a landing. There's all sorts of stuff that, you know, the last thing you want to do is be the the dummy that drives into the middle of something like that.

Yeah. An emergency. >> Well, we ended up being there and that's Yeah, it was sitting stationary the whole time we were there. >> How How long was did that last if you don't mind me asking? Like that when you get to the point where you you stop and now you're observing it. >> Well, even then, we didn't get out of the car.

Um the van just >> you're in the van the whole time. >> No, we did get out, but I mean when we first got there again, it's it's you're trying to analyze what the hell is >> going on. Sure. >> So, you're still talking about it. You know, I put parked the van where I was pointing at it.

I had my headlights on, of course, and then I put my brights on and my brights didn't really light it up like you would have thought. Like, it was a weird >> interesting >> sort of thing. So, we're already kind of like, what the hell? You know, it's like it's absorbing the >> I was just going to ask that. Like, it's absorbing the light essentially. The only thing I can describe is like if you had a desk and you had like a >> probably not a 30 watt bulb, but some little bulb screwed into it and you're in the pitch black.

>> That bulb may shine two foot across, but probably not to the end of your desk. >> Okay, >> that's kind of what it was like, but it wasn't a little bulb. It's your brights. So like Got it. You know, it shouldn't have just been >> disappearing.

you know, you should have had some some area. Anyway, that said, I can't go too far, but like >> that's when we decided like we've got technology with this. Like that's just the next step. Nothing was uh you know, sparks coming out of it or smoke like it was going to blow up, right? I mean, I I know it sounds crazy to say it seemed safe, but you know, overall seemed >> seemed safe. So, and then that progressed to everybody getting out and doing what we did in the whole situation.

>> Yeah. How big are these like pieces that you got? And and if you were to see if someone that does know anything like myself, right, were to see that piece, would I think it's like alien? Like would it look alien to me? >> Um, what I'll say is the exact measurements in the piece is on Violet Hero and SSCI. Um, and I'll tell you why I I'm not going to go any further in a minute, but if you were to see it, no. If you were to know the possibilities of the technology, Yeah. >> Wow.

>> You know, if I look at you right now, let's use some of the some of the focuses um because they're going to bombard us anyway. Let's really make sure we make them mad. If I look at you, Patrick, you're a human, right? But I don't know, right? So that's like this piece. If you saw this piece, you'd probably be like, "Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's off some sort of airplane, but it's what it can do." So, if you turn to an alien right now, >> that's kind of the same concept of look versus performance is two different >> Got it.

>> two different things. >> That makes sense. >> Real fast. I don't forget this because people be wondering, >> when my phone blew up, one of the biggest things was you're in deep [ __ ] Not deep [ __ ] legally. And this is coming from people within the intelligence community that I know and I deal with and some that were involved and I forget names.

They said Tim Phillips, keep in mind everybody is already aware in these committees of the death threats people tracking me. He has just announced to the world of verse country spies and bad actors that you have physical material on your possession the likes of which the chairman sent him to the Nevada test range for. Do you have any idea what spies and countries are willing to do to get hold of the sort of technology that we have at the Nevada test room? This is the gold nugget. They don't have to steal it. They don't have to hack it.

They don't have to send a thousand guys to live over here and work in our universities or try and get a clearance. Everybody told me, "You got to be real careful. You got to be on your watch for home invasion. Everything's on the table. Kidnapping, extortion, murder.

>> Wow. >> Don't open your front gate or your mailbox without a cloth and throw it away when you're done." Some of the threats that come in have dealt with people who will travel and bring nerve agent with them. And this dumbass just went on a podcast, announced all of them. I have physical material on my possession. And then he took it a step further and said if the US government doesn't pay him, he's going to take it or sell it to a foreign bery.

So, even the countries that weren't aware of me now think there's a guy that'll take money for material the likes of which is at the Nevada Test Rings. I mean, you put a big like open for business sign on me. I mean, people basically said Tim Phillips just marked you for death. >> They're going to get somebody killed. I mean, you got to understand this is not, and I know people aren't going to like to hear this, but this is not the normal I've seen the particular aliens or some men in black visit me.

Tim Phillips has confirmed material pieces. OSI has confirmed the deaths. You do not mix those two things together in a public forum. And I let SSCI and their legal council, OD9, and everybody else know in a letter uh exactly that. Um, it's just insanity to think that a civilian who was asked to come in is now in this sort of situation.

>> Sure. What What What do you If Tim Phillips were here right now, what what do you think he would say? Like, well, I did it because of this or I I said it this way or that's what I'm trying to understand because he doesn't seem like the type of guy to do that. Um, but I don't know him. I mean, I'm just I've watched a couple interviews. Clearly, I don't know him, but that just seems unusual for him to put you in danger like that.

And I hear what you're saying. I I would be terrified. So, I'm you I'm sorry that you and your family even have to go through that. Um, but I would just be curious like what what what would he be saying? Like why why what would his response be? >> I don't know. And the reason I don't know is because, you know, he continued on about one of the staff, the committee, senator staff, um, told him some things and based on what they told him, uh, you know, he's not a psychological medical professional, but I went along around my family.

Any way you look at it, this is a hit job. And the reason it's a hit job is if I ever go public with my full name in my face. An SCES who served in his own words at the pleasure of the president while collecting a check and after has just said that this individual Michael is extorting the United States government. That ties right to my business. He's just said based on what he's told from other professionals within the Senate Committee on Intelligence that he wouldn't want me around his family.

How is that going to work for my community standing? How's that going to work as a family and kids? Do you think other people's parents are going to want their kids? >> Sure. >> My kids, do you think anyone's going to think it's safe for me to be around anybody, whether it be at the school or any of the things that I'm involved in that they know about? He's literally ruined me >> if I go public. >> The point of it was is to keep me shut the [ __ ] up. >> That was the point of You have to excuse the language. >> Make sure there was enough there to bury me enough where I said, "Oh god, I'm just gonna >> forget about it's not worth it, right?" Yeah, it's not worth it.

>> That's why he did it. The whole How come he did it? I can't answer remotely. All I can say is that >> he was terminated. We don't he didn't clarify why. He has a very weird answer.

He's been asked several times. And what he kind of does is he tells this beginning story about um he was going to retire anyway and some of the upcomers come in. And that's great, but it's also formatted to make you take his side right off the bat. He starts going on and on and on about it. And then he somehow gets to a point where he says, um, well, it did say terminated and, um, it did say in the best interest of the US government, but it was a nice letter.

It was a really, really nice letter. And it's like the letter that just said you were terminated in the best interest of the government. It's a really nice letter. The [ __ ] are you talking about? And and the podcasters just like, "Oh, okay. Yeah." So he cl Thanks for clearing that up.

So you just retired. Yeah. They said, "Let's just process you retired." He's never clarified why he was terminated. He did say on his LinkedIn that when he was terminated, he felt like he had the right to know after that many decades why he was denied a pill. There's some clues here.

Legally, I can't say why he was because I don't know. He hasn't clarified it. But I can say I agree with the decision. Although with that said, not in the same step as a Kyaku or Snowden or anybody, but sometimes there can be a fall value. And one of the things that was addressed with SCI and OD and OD9 everybody was we're gonna find out who said what to Tim Phillips because he's already admitted that and we we know who those people are, who those staff members are.

>> And one of them could be I'll put an aster there. You got to legally be careful. One of them could be a guy who just got nominated from the presidential administration to leave SSCI and take over a massive department. um of the government. I I'd be very interested in making sure I knew if he if he was Astric was one of the people that let me have it because that would be very important to go in and provide testimony on this gentleman that's going to be leading a big department.

Like I said, there's so many layers to this that people within this aspect of only coming here and reading, you know, stories about blurry pictures or lights in the sky. Like this is the real deal. When you bring proof to SSCI, Darl, which is why I genally said don't go. >> Yeah. >> If you have a story, SSCI may or may not talk to you.

They're going to laugh at you when you're gone. Gary loves them because that keeps them busy. They don't take any serious. But the only difference between me is he said all those people were right on their description, but they thought it was, you know, off-road technology and me is I went the extra step to prove it wasn't >> off-world technology. There really shouldn't be anybody that only wants to go if you have proof.

You're gonna not like what happens. >> True. Wow. This is so bonkers. Um, so in your mind, Arrow has zero intention to really find out quote the truth about UFOs, right? Because that's how people think of it in this community, right? like essentially to just you know >> put it in a basic sentence or do they some maybe a little care >> there hasn't been anything brought you know rather than me saying what I think I'll say the reality of of what's going on which is that as much as people don't want to hear it there hasn't been anything brought to them to prove there's these off-road ships.

And keep in mind, it's not that I'm discrediting the witnesses, but if you see something and you may or may not remember what day or time it is and it's 10 years ago and the the records records are gone, they don't have to, not if they want to, they don't have to investigate that because they just say there's no there's nothing for us to look at. I mean, we got to have some sort of result. So >> sure, >> no one can bring them what would be required for them to look at it. Now I know the NIMITs is the holy grail of um off-world technology. And again, you've seen what they've said about that, right? They basically can't find anything.

They said it was a wasp, but then got cleared up. That couldn't have been the wasp. So unless you have something better than what's going, it just I can't fairly say they don't care. >> Yeah. >> I don't think they've had anything in front of them that they've been forced to give an opinion on.

Um and just on that note, Fraver has continually made the statement, Commander Fraver, that um in his mind, this is not ours. >> Correct. And because of that, there are people in the military who want to know what this is. These aren't people that care about abductions or orbs. Every one of them is focused on one thing and one thing only.

I don't care whose it is. Can we exploit it? Can we reverse engineer it? It's ours now. That's all you care about technology that Commander Fraver says. one of these could have came in and took out an interior entire interior striker. So based on that, the idea that if technology was found, especially off-world, that you would ever hear about it, even if they know it's coming from Mars or somewhere else, I still think is 0%.

>> Wow. >> It's just not the reality of the world of what's going on on the inside. >> Sure. Yeah. What people think is happening, right? what from my position for instance >> keep on sharing keep on yeah tweeting at them but I'm just telling you >> it is what it is and >> you have to face reality at some point in time which is why I've kind of argued the whole disclosure mean it's dead because it's the same plan >> rehashed and I know the inside of what's going on and it's just not going to get you there.

Why does David Fraver say like because he works for an aerospace company like he's like I know what we have so I know for certain it's not ours. Does he you think he's lying on purpose or protect you know his job and what he's doing or does he you think he genuinely believes it? >> I don't know. I mean I'm 5050. What I will say is Fraver has enough backing to be able to say whatever he wants. I mean um >> Sure.

I don't think people realize like how much if you got talking to him, you'd be amazed at how much more other than the the NS he was involved in high level sort of missions and leadership. So he has that ability to say that. Now with that said, nobody really has a job anywhere where we've gone through this um the Senate and you know different things where I feel like anybody could ever say I would know. Um, there's really nowhere you could work to where you could say I would know. Um, >> sure.

>> Lastly, I'll just say, and I'm not picking on him, but he continually keeps saying that that encounter happened over something like five minutes and his only mates had said it was closer to like five 10 seconds or something. I mean, there are parts of the story. The important thing people need to know is, and this is especially for the debunkers, is that everybody, even people at SOCOM and some high level people because Fraver has said it's not ours, they are never going to forget about this until you get it handled. All they want to know is about the technology. How do we get it? We want it to be ours.

So, it's not just the folks that want the NHI and these sort of herrings. There is a whole movement within the military on this. And so again, they get their hands on it. You're not going to get your hands >> on it. And information that comes in about technology is going to go to them, not you, whether you like it or not.

>> Sure. So people are sort of piggybacking on the UFO sort of, you know, >> they are already established. They don't have to pounce. I'm just telling you, there's a fork in the road and and this car is going to go straight right the hell through it and it's going right to the the military. It's not going >> to the mainstream media.

It's not going to the UFO folks >> like disclosure, right? Like everyone said like that >> you're not going to get it. It's just not going to happen. >> Sure. I mean, I honestly always thought that myself like just doesn't make any sense. Why would why they just open the books like that? You know, that that's that's not And yeah, there's no um >> no precedent.

>> There's no And I just Yeah, I don't want to bag on people, but like the same way there's there's nothing you're going to find by a council that has the rights to 20 million pages of information with a smoking gun in there, you know, it says Ross will happen or I mean it's just I don't know just it it's busy work, but busy work is different from getting to your goal. >> Very true. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. I mean Yeah.

Wow. But you know, I guess maybe a personal question here and we can kind of wrap it up here. Like I mean just because we're here, I don't know what what are your thoughts on uh do you think it's possible that there's any part of our government that is hiding some sort of alien technology at all just based on what you know. >> I mean I get asked that a lot and keep in mind I've always been open to whatever the truth is, right? Like I've got a pretty high degree and so did some of the folks with us that night first time >> of aerospace and like I said we have a team that built you know when we used to have a space program and some other things even they and I did not think that we were this far ahead on technology. So I'm willingly publicly to admit I was wrong.

So because of that, I can't really say you UFOs or NHI isn't real, you know, just keeping the openness. >> Now, how would I ever know if this was >> because that's really where it hits together is if this was reverse engineered from something from Roswell or something of that sort and crash retrieval programs that are alleged. There's no way I or anyone out there will ever know that answer. that answer varied and you'll never know it. So the >> the thing I would say is >> as much as people don't want to really look into material science and engineering.

I know that doesn't sound like a good podcast or a good thing to Google, but even when you look in some of the Nobel prizes um that have been given for this, you would be amazed that not just, you know, the saying kind of goes several of the of the PhDs that have wrote about it and won the prizes that it's not that you're developing a whole new material. You can make something that's great at something, bad sentence, something that's bad, not great at something. It's you're opening a whole new world and that really is the level of you know changes that can be made and this whole defies physics sort of concept can happen. >> Yeah. You know you um you said something earlier that um caught my eye, you know, caught my ear.

Um you said the skies aren't classified. Is that something you came up with? Because I've heard that before in this community from Jake Barber and Skywatch. >> Yeah, I have I would like to credit whoever said it first. I don't know. Um >> Okay.

Have you ever worked with Skyatcher? That That's why I was thinking like I guess that's what I'm getting at. >> I have not. Um I've purposely tried to stay I've been asked like don't you know this whistleblower this one that one. I've had a lot reach out to me and things in good faith. Um, but because I want to remain in the middle where I'm not siding with the skeptics, I'm not siding with the whistleblowers.

Let's get some answers. Let's everybody come back to the table because the technology, our technology is advanced enough to do that. If we can get ourselves financed and get that folder open to you. That's my plan. That's how I write up plans versus let's just show up every day and >> argue about things that happened in the 40s, 50s, and 60s.

Yeah. That none of us were alive for. >> So, I can't say that. What I will say about Skywatcher is, and I don't I don't know a terrible amount of them, but um there does there is some highlevel people. I can't validate anything they've done or not done.

Um but that's the little bit that I know about them. My saying uh that you can attribute to me is that the world's changed. You just don't know yet. >> I like it. >> That's my big push on people.

I know we're greatly concerned about NHI and other life forms, but put all that to the side. You know, when Tim Phillips is talking about, you know, spooky things, the places they shouldn't be with performance that we can't replicate today, think about what that technology does to the world we live in today and just kind of forget about everything else. That's still a massive revelation coming. Well, also what you said about um Senator Rounds and what he's talking about in age of disclosure, you know, because clearly that's being sold as a you know, I don't care if people use UAP or UFO in my head, they mean alien, right? They can try to use whatever word, but that's the implication. and if they're trying to hide it behind something else.

So, he's essentially using things you've, you know, told them or your group has, right, in this film to try to sell it as UFOs, as alien stuff, as nonhuman when it's not. >> I haven't seen the film. Um, there is >> me neither. >> One or two people that I highly respect that were in it. Um, but with that said, I don't know the editing.

I have heard that as well exactly what you're saying. My hope is that it's more of a down the middle. Although I can definitely see the angle of aliens pretty pretty strongly in it. But when it's said that do you don't think for a minute that China or Russia will try and take this talk? It's because China and Russia has tried to buy this from me and threatened to kill me if they don't get it and Senator RS has seen it with his own eyes and all his eyes confirmed. That's that angle.

>> Wow. Yeah. That part. Sure. Wow.

I mean, I've I've I actually had a chance to go see it at Southby, but I declined just because I didn't want to have seen it and not be able to talk about it for however long till the film came out, right? I just I I >> I'm I I don't like that stuff. So, I was like, I'll just wait for everyone else to see it. Um, but what I have heard from people that have seen it is absolutely about pushing the idea that uh aliens are on Earth and we need to do something about it. That's definitely the push of this um for sure in the documentary >> or whatever that means, right? >> I'm I'm traveling the week that it comes out and the week after it comes out, so I may or may not see it. That's not a knock on the movie, but my guess is the entire movie and clips of it are probably going to be on mine before I ever have to.

>> Yeah, I'll I'll be covering it, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know if I'll have to see it. Maybe >> necessarily. Um I'm willing to see it.

There are some people I'm curious um what they said in it. I'll wait till the movie comes out because I've only seen the same trailer everybody else >> Yeah. >> seen. But >> you know the the main thing here is that you know to wrap this up Tim Phillips said this still collecting a paycheck. He got terminated and then into retirement.

So he's also continued essentially double down those claims as a retiree. There's not any way for him to say I don't have a right to talk to him about it because you've said it both as an employee and as a retiree. He spoke about me. >> Yeah. >> I challenged him and it was a fair, very uh eloquent challenge.

I know it's turned since then trying to get him to come on after he keeps turning him down. I said a fair moderate. That means someone we both would have agreed to. >> Sure. >> I made sure there was no expenses.

I offered to pay any of the expenses. If it was him flying somewhere, we could do it in person. If not, let's do it like we're kind of doing it today. I said I would go public. my face and my name, right? >> Yeah.

>> And I said I would bring receipts. I also said he should bring any receipts he had or he could bring anybody to validate his story. >> Some of those receipts I've since kind of let out. But the point of it being is everything he said based on even receipts and emails from ERO and SSCI staff that says deal deal financing over and over and over it. all these different things and and I've kept my receipts.

I'll just leave it at that. And I keep all receipts, phone, uh conference call or anything else or email would prove he's lying. >> Sure. >> And I know that's the reason um he's not accepted. It's still there.

I put the deadline as a Friday that passed. >> Yeah. And I just want people to know that anything he says from here on out about me, he's doing so willingly and intentionally without me present to dispute it because he had that opportunity. In other words, lies. >> That's a fair point.

You're offering to, hey, let's get together. I'm willing to step up. What about you? Right. So, that's a fair point. I know he is doing an interview with um a podcast called Total Disclosure, >> right? >> I don't know if it's out or he recorded.

>> It was supposed to been yesterday. I had everybody rally together because I was going to be in the chat room. Chat was supposed to been live. >> I don't know what happened. It ended up not being live >> and it's got moved to Friday.

Um if it's not moved again, but I don't know because he hasn't announced the move. So, I don't know if that's just put it out a little bit while I figure out >> an exact time. And he did mention that it may not be live now due to some he didn't want to clear up what it was, but it may be recorded. And then, >> so I'm sure there's a story there. I'm not going to get into what I think or why, but um Sean Kurpatre in one of his interviews did say that essentially the intelligence agencies notified him that his home address was showing up on the internet and basically UFOs and that >> Sean Kirkpatrick Sean >> Sean Kurpatre's address.

Oh, it's horrible. And that's essentially what ended up happening is he had a crazy person um >> show up at his house. I remember that. >> He wasn't even home. I understand it was his wife and his daughter, which I don't care how much you hate Katrick.

>> I agree. >> That shouldn't be going on. Should not >> despicable. Yeah. Despicable.

So, with that said, despicable as it is, one thing we know now, it's essentially been confirmed is that the intelligence agency does monitor these >> the boards, the UFO boards, >> whether it be Reddit, UAPX, >> um, and that's shouldn't be a surprise. Now, that's not me saying they're running, you know, disinformation and all the other sort of stuff, but we know they're watching. So, they damn well know about what's going on between me and Tim Phillips and the things going on. So, >> odds him when he talks. >> I mean, honestly, I was, if I'm being frank, I was kind of surprised that, nothing against that podcast or what, you know, I I don't know that guy.

I've met him one time um that runs that show, but I was a little surprised he's going on that show, and I'm just surprised he's still doing interview. It's like, what is he talking about? What What is he going to Yeah, I just got asked that. Um, there's ones that didn't even really make it on to Twitter that have less than like a 100red views. And you got to wonder, this guy was at roundts that were invite only and international conferences and now he's really taking some odd um interviews. I my answer was I don't have an answer, but yeah, it's got to be the weirdest.

Um, >> the only thing >> I reached out to the to the gentleman, the host of that, and did say to him, um, please just don't go along with what he says about me. I'm not telling you how to do your job. You form your own opinions. But one of the things I continually see when he says something because he sets it up so damn well is the podcast will repeat it. You know, there was one where he went into it and the the podcast host was like, "Well, no, man.

I mean, as soon as you said it was American Tech," I was like, "That's not even his." you know, like, you know, like that never happened, buddy. You just bid on a [ __ ] you know, >> sure >> false story and now you're repeating it because that's how the snowball gets >> sure >> go. So, you know, the only thing my ask was on that is to make sure because he won't let me on there to say that's not true and prove it with your seats. If you have Tim Phillips on, I don't hate you. That's what hosts do.

You get people whether they're controversial or not. just when it gets to me. No, he's saying that purposely without me there disputing. >> Sure. No, I think this is >> I think this is good.

I I wanted to give you an opportunity. Um Tim's done lots of interviews and I thought, you know what, you haven't had a chance to explain yourself and people can decide for themselves um you know what you're saying, but I think it's absolutely important to hear um both sides. And I totally hear where you're coming from. I I think this will help dispel a lot of the rumors that are out there about you um that I've heard in my own Discord. Um some of the stuff I've heard, right? I told you exactly what's out on the street, what people are saying.

Like that that's how they see it. This will clear up a lot because it's it's um it's honestly it's not even close to what the real story is essentially. >> Yeah. Well, believe whatever you want, but just again ask yourself about the world we're living in here. Like, imagine >> an SCS serves at the leisure of the president going on a podcast and accusing an American civilian of extorting the government.

>> So odd >> that he got told things and make him say it wouldn't be safe to have around his family. That >> yeah, >> I'm going to sell it to another country. I mean, um, at what level is this okay? I mean, that's really the question. >> I agree. >> Sure.

Yeah. You would think that like he had a foolproof, you know, evidence or receipts or plan to say something like that because that is so that's a huge accusation. I don't know if you're a if you're a, you know, um, full-blown patriot, right, and really love this country, that that is quite literally the worst accusation that can be heralded against you, especially as someone who's trying to work with the government, right? You're trying to extort the government and be a traitor. Like, what what worse accusation is that? Like, that that is it's horrible. >> Yeah.

I mean, I know we're trying to get off here, but I want to say something about that, which is when we ran into the Invention Secrecy Act, and you can go to every member of SSCI's YouTube channel, they all have them, every senator, and just type in China, and there are multiple videos. Some of them are known as China hawks, moaning and groaning about China and the China leadership, dictatorship, and going on on. They know about the invention secrecy act. So, if I was to say to you, pick a country, Patrick, that does this and then tell you they take things from inventors that they didn't fund, that wasn't made for them, that could help the world out, power sources or whatever it may be, and they take it in a way that even though they're supposed to pay, they don't. And the legal will show that there's several articles out about it.

And then they lock you into an NDA where you can't speak to anybody of your own spouse about it. What country does that? >> It hurts me to say as a proud American. >> Maybe it probably is China, Russia, and the rest of them, but it's our own country. And someone's going to unfortunately has to speak up. My grandfather who was in a World War II and had a life of problems because of just being on a couple ships that got brought down and floating in the water, especially when you get into some cold water is not the greatest for you.

Lead pipes, asbestous walls, and paint, you know. Yeah. >> Was always happy to say that he would have fought that war again because some people didn't get to come home >> and it was really the war of freedom. >> Wow. >> It had to be done, right? >> Yeah.

>> But with that said, and some of the finances we had to use on this that were family assets, he gave us permission to sell them because he said, "This isn't what I fought the war for. This sort of invention secrecy act [ __ ] that's >> going on." like, you know, we're supposed to have constitutional rights. So, being a proud patriot and being accused of the things like this from Tim Phillips, I hate to use the mainstream media title, but like this really needs to be discussed on bigger platforms to get this guy pinned down enough to where there needs to be a retraction of that statement. I asked Si and Arrow and neither one of them have answered that back. man.

Well, look, um I can try to reach out to Tim and see if he'll let me mediate something between both of y'all. >> I I think you owe that and I don't mind doing that. >> I would greatly appreciate it. Several more than several I would guess. I won't go to the amount but it's a high amount of people um who I didn't ask to reach out to Tim but took it upon themselves to reach out to them did send me the correspondence back and forth and it seems to be that he's kind of playing it with the Denver team.

It's like why would Michael want to talk to me and you know I gave an analogy on one of the spaces somewhere where it was like because UAPX is so much like high school. I was saying it's like there's there's no comparison to what just happened. Like I don't think people understand how [ __ ] crazy this just went down. Extortion from a guy who's an SCES, you know, this is insane. >> I agree.

But the best thing I can say is if you were a high school kid claim that someone was only going to start the football game at quarterback because their dad knows the coach and he's only dating this girl because he's rich and he's only got straight A's because you know you talk [ __ ] all day long and at lunch someone comes up to you like, "Hey Patrick, Mike wants to talk to you." There's a certain amount of person that's like, "Oh boy, here it comes." Or there's always that kid that's like, "Huh, what what do they want to talk to me about?" And like that's the Tim. >> He doesn't know. He he can't figure out what Michael would want to. >> He's playing dumb. Like what do you mean >> playing the dumb, right? So with that said, if I would be glad for you to reach out to him again, we can have a very civilized conversation.

Everybody will have cop copies of all the receipts beforehand. There's no surprise. >> Sure. you know, and we can work through it. And I'm more than glad to have that conversation.

>> No, I appreciate that because I mean, I'm on the outside, too, and I I I would like to speak to him and get his side of the story from this and why he would say that, what, you know, because it just seems so unusual. And you've been very professional and respectful in all of our communications and today as well. Um, and um, I see nothing wrong with it. And that's the way I run my channel. I would absolutely mediate it um objectively and um give him a chance to speak, give you a chance to speak and and keep it very civil.

So, if you can help me with I don't have his contact info, so maybe if you know offline you can help me if that's possible. I don't want you to have to reveal anything you don't. I mean, I I guess I can try to find it on my own, but um >> I'll tell you the little bit I know based on people that have reached out to him um and go from there. But again, it's It's needed not just out of what's owed to me, but within a community of even a country to have something like this happen, again, you just can't go into how insane this is. >> Sure.

>> There needs to be a discussion about this. Again, the same people that were working with me to get this done before I ended up at SSCI to fund it, the same people that briefed SSCI how to fund it, even after all this crazy stuff with Phillips, the same people that are still with me that want to get things that are invention secrecy related to our people. That's you're always better working together. >> Yeah. >> Brief Burles on how to get it funded.

No one's left me. It's just this crazy story that's really trying to ruin me. and let's talk it out and let everybody see it. You'll see my face. You'll see my whole name.

>> Sure. >> Let's talk. >> Sure. All right. Well, I'm gonna try to make that happen and fingers crossed.

Um but look, Michael, I just want to say that um yeah, I really appreciate you coming on, man. And I appreciate cander and your u um you know, honesty and just willing to talk and I've really enjoyed this conversation. I'm really I I don't like to hear that you feel that you and your family and your life is in danger. And I I understand the seriousness of those allegations. Again, I I'm dumbfounded.

They're they're extrrenuous. They're It's the highest accusation you could throw at somebody in this situation. So, um I'm sorry. I'm glad you Yeah, I'm glad you let me come on here and talk because normally it's just you know non-stop NHI who built the tech non-stop trolls uh you know Phillips is confirmed I have what I have one guy want to know how'd you pay for it and it's like why would I tell a random guy on the internet how would that be a valid question if he's already confirmed I have >> you know it's [ __ ] like that and this is really I thought was good just time to come on and actually speak and talk about things that are going on. But yeah, that's the absolute worst accusation and unfortunately it came from one of the highest type of rankings and individuals still getting a paycheck when he said it.

You know, my grandfather always felt like uh Oswwell was the guy because he got a dishonorable discharge. Like that's the sort of environment I grew up in is like you know you go against your country you're the worst human being you know I mean like >> absolutely possible. So and then to have this come out it's insane. So I appreciate the time time from you here. >> Of course Michael absolutely and and if we need to do it again let's do it.

I'm definitely going to try with uh Tim and um you know we'll just go from there. So again, man, just appreciate you coming on and chatting. >> Hi. Yeah, I just wanted to mention Stephen Greer, Dr. Steven Greer has gone into detail quite extensively about what he calls the red flag or false flag situation where the government's going to try to make everybody think there's really all this hostile alien thing happening when it and that will be their excuse to arm.

So maybe you should check out what Dr. Steven Greer has to say about that. I was just watching your show that called uh Jeremy Corbel comes clean about uh ThreeI Atlas. I enjoy your show. So does my husband.

Thank you very much for what you do. Bye.