Reality Check: UAP retrieval whistleblower & Dr. Garry Nolan on injury claims l Backscroll

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Tonight, you've heard the testimony about a secret government program to retrieve and reverse engineer UFOs. >> Has the government conducted secret UAP crash retrieval programs? Yes or no? >> Yes. News Nation was the first to bring you this story. >> We have spacecraft from another species. >> We do.

Yeah. And now, for the first time anywhere, a military veteran comes forward to say he was part of that program with video to prove it. >> My work has included the recovery of downed UAP of non-human origin, >> revealing how he retrieved alien craft. What did you see? >> I saw an egg. >> How it changed his life forever.

what we call a psionic component to the research and development of the UAP program >> and how he plans to do it again for the world to see. >> The skies are not classified. Your conscious can't be redacted. >> His account corroborated by his colleagues and his injuries sustained during these operations confirmed by a Stanford professor. >> My personal experience is that there's something here.

Will the truth set him free or will it get him killed? People have been murdered. >> That seems to be the case. >> News Nation presents Hunting UFOs, the crash retrieval whistleblower. In October 2024, an unknown man stepped out of the shadows, arriving in our nation's capital to deliver an important message about what the public calls UFOs. And the government calls unidentified anomalous phenomena or UAPs.

>> I'm here in DC this week to meet with members of Congress. His name is Jacob Barber and he says that for the past 30 years he's worked in both an official and unofficial capacity for the United States government and its partners in the intelligence community. What he knows and what he's here to tell Congress could change the world as we know it. We're in this rare opportunity in human history where it's very clear that we know that there are things flying in the sky that uh are unexplained and understood. And that's another one of the things that um I'm uniquely providing information on.

>> So what makes this guy special? Well, to date, everyone who's come forward has either described their own UAP encounter, like this famed 2015 incident recorded by F-16 aviators on the USS Roosevelt. >> I have experienced advanced UAP firsthand, and I'm here to voice the concerns of more than 30 commercial air crew and military veterans who have confided their similar encounters with me. >> Others have alleged that there's a secret government UAP program that's been going on for decades. People like David Grush and Lou Alzando. They say they've been told about it.

They believe it exists, but they weren't a part of it themselves. We've been recovering spacecraft, alien spacecraft. The United States has been involved in the recovery of objects, vehicles of unknown origin that are neither from our country or any other foreign country that we're aware of. But Mr. Barber is different.

He says that for years he was part of that covert program working with alien spacecraft. These days we call them NHI, nonhuman intelligence. And this guy is prepared to testify that he was involved directly firsthand in the retrieval of these craft. How long have you known this secret about unidentified anomalous phenomena being of nonhuman origin? >> For more than 10 years. >> Of course, we checked Barber's records and we've confirmed that he was an airman in the US Air Force working as an aerospace mechanic in the late '90s.

But as these documents show, he was also recruited into Air Force special operations known as combat control. He says he ended up working in a non-official capacity for the Department of Defense and the intelligence community. What were you? What was I, Ross? I was a highly talented airplane mechanic who got to deploy on a number of presidential support missions. But Jake was no ordinary mechanic. Being recruited into the Air Force's elite combat control unit meant he had a resume that reads like something out of an action thriller.

Helicopter pilot, freef fall parachutist, expert marksman, and the recipient of a NATO top secret security clearance. A legacy of his service in Bosnia where he won an award for an act of heroism. In addition to reviewing his official documentation, NewsNation spoke with three former special operations soldiers who corroborate Barber's credentials and claims. I know in special operations you're often in some tough situations. You have to rely on each other.

Is Jake per Barber a person who you would trust? >> Oh yes. Uh he's a person I would and have trusted with my life. >> Do you think Jake Barber is a patriot? Oh yeah, absolutely. There's a thing I I know a lot of special operators talk about that, you know, there are certain types of men who you would want watching your back in a tight spot. Is he one of those guys? >> Absolutely.

Trustworthiness is one of the top things that uh we're looking for. And one of his most fervent supporters is Colonel John Glitch. A Renaissance warrior who holds a doctorate in psychology, was a Delta Force sniper, and is one of the few men to hold doomsday in his hands, commanding a nuclear weapons battalion. So you believe Jake Barber is telling us >> absolutely >> there has been a cover up lasting 80 years. >> Absolutely.

>> We've recovered craft. >> Absolutely. >> So let's roll back. You say you were an enlisted man and then you ended up working for the intelligence community as a contractor. Tell me that story.

How did that happen? >> Everything changed for me right around 9/11. And uh I left the Air Force and was sent out to California at that time to begin establishing my cover basis for an independent as an independent contractor um so that I could serve what was coming down the line next for me. And that is the path which led to the UAP subject. >> Barber says he was contracted as a helicopter pilot and was part of a team assigned to retrieve crashed aircraft at an undisclosed testing facility in the desert. And we're not only talking about conventional airplanes or drones.

A lot of the work we did on was on what I call the range where um the US government and its private partners used to test all kinds of things uh uh weapon systems um and resilience to weapon systems of certain craft and so you see a lot of exciting things. >> So you start seeing at the range yes >> interesting objects. Well, yeah. It's always interesting out there. Things come in and out of sight.

Things disappear for a moment and reappear. Things to seem things seem to move very quickly. Things change color. They change shape. We did recover things uh that were that were exotic in nature in the sky.

And we know they were classified craft and we recovered them and took them back to where they go. The majority of what we see and do is explainable and is ordinary and is known by many people and is not um not classified. But there is a certain percentage which is extremely sensitive and that extremely sensitive bit does include what we know is our own man-made advanced technology. So you know what Lu Lzando has described as the five observables. So you you were seeing objects that complied with those weird observables.

>> Yes. So um one of those that would raise your eyebrow is more of the transmedium characteristics cuz things would come from the ground like from the earth from a ridge from a mountain or could pass through. So they'd come out of a ridge. >> Out of a ridge. Yeah.

aircraft that can disappear, change color, change shape. How might the US military have developed or acquired such technology? Jake says he saw for himself close up in the rare occasion or let's say the hypothetical occasion something of a nonhuman origin or uh source were to interface with the ground, you would deploy that same team. And that is the segue in how we got involved with this particular subject. >> Next, Jake Barber's first encounter with nonhuman intelligence. How close did you get? >> I got within 150 ft of this object.

>> And later, NewsNation has acquired video evidence of Jake's claims. It has to be seen to be believed. We are not alone. >> We are not alone. There's no doubt Jake Barber is an accomplished helicopter pilot.

This is the kind of work Barber says he did after he left the Air Force as a private contractor working for the defense industry and the US government at a secret location he called the range. That's where Barber and his team were asked to retrieve down craft the likes of which he says were not just advanced tech the public has never seen. They were built by nonhuman intelligence. So tell me about the moment when you realized that you were involved in a retrieval of nonhuman technology, alien tech. >> So it became very clear the first time our communication process and procedure uh was modified and then just visually looking at the object on the ground, you could tell that it was extraordinary and anomalous.

It was it was not human. >> How close did you get? Well, I was a helicopter pilot and I operate with a 150 foot to 200 foot long line. So, I got within 150 ft of this object. >> What did you see? >> I saw an egg, a white egg. >> Was there any visible propulsion system on it? >> No, not what we would know.

There's no engine. There was no thermal uh signature. Uh I was operating at night when I finally came in to pick it up. So, I'm working under night vision goggles at the time. Um, and it was quite clear.

I I flipped them up, flipped them down, and looked at it a couple of different ways. How large was the object? >> I would say approximately 20 ft plus or minus a little bit. About the size of a large SUV. >> Did it have any seams? >> No. >> And it was pure pure white.

>> It was like pearly white, like a metallic pearly white. The best I can I could assess. How did you know that that egg-shaped object was nonhuman in origin? >> Well, visually, after seeing all kinds of things in my past, um, it was clearly something that was ridiculously looking. It's inconsistent with anything I'd ever seen before. I can also tell you that the reaction by my team, we all knew we were dealing with something um, extraordinary.

>> And at no stage were you ever subsequently told that the craft was of non-human origin. I will tell you that during this process over the last couple years, it's been confirmed to me by ranking members of the UAP task force that what we were working with that night was in fact NHI and it was not a unique experience. What do you think that object was? >> I don't know. Again, I'm security and transportation. I moved it, loaded it on a truck and it went to Where would it go? Where would where would it be taken? >> Um, it would be taken to a secure facility.

But uh again, my my role stops once I deliver it. >> Yes, it sounds like the stuff of madness. Tall tales, delusions, and anyway, where was the proof for any of this? >> NewsNation has independently obtained previously unseen video obtained from a secret UAP craft retrieval program. This extraordinary footage clearly shows an egg-shaped object dangling in a sling below the belly of a helicopter. Let's slow this down to take a closer look.

That's an eggshaped UAP suspended from a 150 ft long line. We're told the craft is about 20 ft long. The egg suspended in a cradle. And look how careful the pilot is as they bring their precious cargo into land. Let's freeze frame here to look at one of the clearest images of a UAP ever taken.

This is no blurry light in a distant sky. The source of the footage putting themsel at incredible risk to record this UAP retrieval. Look at how perfectly smooth the craft is. No markings at all and no visible means of propulsion or way to see inside. Watch how it rolls, almost graceful as it hits the ground, despite being wrapped in the ropes and canvas from the cradle as it's dropped for pickup.

The UAP's final destination still unknown. >> So, there there was another object. There's two objects that I'm here to talk about. One was the egg. The other is what we called an eight gone.

The eightgon was a uh essentially a flying disc with what looked like eight uh delineated sections when looking down. And I can tell you what it looked like from looking down because that's primarily how I saw it because I'm a helicopter pilot. Um we did recoveries with the eight guns. There was more than one that was that made its way to the ground on this particular operation. Simply seeing a nonhuman craft up close would be an intense experience in itself.

But Barber says as he prepared to transport that so-called 8gon from the pickup site to the drop site, something even more intense happened to him that would change his life forever. >> This is one of the most profound experiences I've ever had in my life. I'm about to share with you. So bear with me. So, as I get closer to this pixight, I start feeling odd.

I start feeling extremely emotional. Um, and the closer I get, the more the emotion starts to overwhelm me. I feel this intense hybrid of sadness and happiness and beauty um, and song. And it was very disruptive to me cuz I had a very practical responsibility at the time to operate a helicopter in the mountains at night. And I began wondering what was wrong with me.

It was late. I'm like, am I distressed? Am I tired? I don't know. Um, but as I came over this object for the pick, there was this overwhelming sense of emotion. >> Is it your feeling? Are you suddenly having a mental breakdown on the job? >> No. I felt like something connected with me.

I felt like something had tuned in to me and my soul and was providing me some sense of guidance on what to do and how profound what I was doing was. Um, and it was so overwhelming that I began to cry. And then I'm confused as to why I'm crying at the same time. And then I'm do I abort the mission? Do I And I So I just did my best to focus on my particular cues when doing this type of work. And I got the load hooked up and I began flying away.

And once it was just me and that object in between the pick and the drop site, there's about 20 miles in between. I felt like something was inside of me. I felt like I was possessed by the most beautiful spirit I'd ever been possessed by. And >> was it loving? >> It was loving. Um, but there was a sense of sadness at the same time.

And um, >> had you ever had an experience like this before? >> No. No. It was a very feminine energy. I'll tell you that. I it felt like felt like the spirit of God but not in any masculine sense and it wasn't like a soul.

It was like a frequency that I was connected with. And whatever that force was since that night, it has stayed with me. And as crazy as this sounds, it's what's guiding me now and it's what's providing protection for me. >> It's changed your life. >> It's changed my life.

>> Wait a second. humans bonding psychically and emotionally with non-human intelligence. Yes, Jake Barber says that's exactly what happened to him. And he's not the only one. And he says the government knows all about it.

>> There is a psychic component to the research and development of the UAP program. >> Do psychics walk among us? Stay with us. Jake Barber says that when he retrieved a so-called 8gon shaped UAP, he had an intense emotional reaction which convinced him he'd connected telepathically with a nonhuman intelligence. You're talking UFOs, flying saucers, and >> that's that's probably one of the hardest conversations. That object or whatever was controlling that object was also connecting to me through the mind, through my mind.

>> And so, how did the object come to land? >> I think it was invited to land by the psionics team. >> Jake says his mission that night came from no accidental crash. The UAP was summoned by a separate team, a special team with special abilities. They're called psionics. What is a psionic? >> A psionic uh person is someone with the predisposition for um extra temporal, you could say, abilities and sensitivities.

>> Extra temporal abilities, also known as psychic powers. What did you discover with the psionics were being used for in the program? >> In the program, there was certainly a desire to explore the idea that perhaps UAP could be summoned, could be communicated with, could be controlled, and could be persuaded to land all by deploying people with uh psionic abilities. And did you see that happen? >> Yes, I did. When a psionic operator engages with technology, how do they do it? >> Using their mind. Um, something like meditation.

>> They're genuinely are people who can actually make a mental, spiritual connection to a technology. >> Yes, 100%. >> It all seems so far-fetched. psychically gifted humans, linking with possibly alien ships, summoning them, and even piloting them. But it isn't just Jake saying this.

Don Paul, another decorated special forces operator and colleague of Jake's, says he's also seen what psionics can do. >> I've had the pleasure of meeting multiple psionic assets. I've seen them function. I know that they're capable of doing what they're doing. You can definitively say that you believe there is a capacity in the human mind to somehow psychically telepathically connect with.

>> Yes. And I don't know if it's a byproduct if it's something that they were born with, but there is certain people who are quantifiably, verifiably capable of this. >> It's an established fact that the Pentagon has had an interest in psychic abilities, what it calls remote viewing, for military purposes. The famed project Stargate spent years studying the subject. And despite the CIA's official position that such studies yielded nothing, former Pentagon UAP investigator Lou Alzando told me last year that psychic abilities are very real and perhaps not very rare.

So this is an onlogical shock I think for many people watching this because we're all being told firstly there's no such thing as aliens visiting this planet and secondly there's no such thing as telepathy or psychic abilities. It's rubbish. >> Yeah. You know I don't think there is going to be an onlogical shock. I think it's going to be an onlogical relief because I think everyone deep down knows that that there is more to life than what we are being told and experiencing.

Like not only is it not shocking, but it should be welcome. >> It all seems so innocent, so benign, even sacred. But hold on. Jake says that through his work, he and his team have suffered serious injuries. >> After this particular mission, me and everyone on my team got extremely sick.

How sick? >> Like physically ill in the hospital. >> And one of the world's leading medical experts agrees. My personal experience both with people and the things that I've seen is that there's something here. >> Are UAPs bad for your health? Coming up next. >> What do you think the NHI want? >> The NHI? I feel the NHI are guiding us.

>> Jake Barber describes his encounters with UAP as transcendent quasi religious moments. And from what you're saying, that's a beautiful experience. >> Yeah, it was the most beautiful experience I've had in my life. >> But he also says these encounters could come with a staggering cost. UAPs may have changed his life for the better.

They may also have shortened it. >> So, what happened to you? >> Uh, we're not quite sure. We were transporting a large sealed container. >> Jake says nobody on his team was told what was in that container. >> And we transported what we called mystery boxes all the time.

I have no idea. It could have been empty. It probably wasn't empty, but we don't know what was inside the boxes. >> And what were you told if somebody tried to seize that box? What were your orders? >> Uh we we maintained the authority to use lethal force if anyone tried to seize those boxes. So whatever that box was, it was extremely valuable to the US government.

>> That's correct. And uh after this particular mission, me and everyone on my team got extremely sick, like physically ill in the hospital. Um within, you know, weeks after this, I'd lost every hair on my body and I also lost the skin on my arms. >> So the skin's actually falling off your body. >> Yeah.

like not just falling off like it it was lpping off within a couple of days like a severe sunburn. Um I ended up developing a severe heart murmur that I'd never had before. >> Last year I introduced Jake to Stanford immunology professor Gary Nolan. He's been studying anomalous injuries among US military personnel for years at the behest of the CIA. Nolan agreed to review decades of Jake's medical records.

The report reads like a bit of a horror show to be quite honest. To me what the first thing that came to mind was you were exposed to some kind of radiation and especially as I understand it a number of his co-workers in the deployments that he was in uh had similar problems. So, you're not dealing with a one-off who went home and somehow uh came in contact with something in the house, but you have uh four or five individuals all at once coming down with the same thing uh within a week or so after deployment. That's more than a coincidence. >> My fear is that there is something permanently broken that might show up in the form of cancer or god knows what later in life and >> we're going to be way behind in trying to figure out how to deal with it.

Assuming Jake and his team were exposed to radiation emanating from that box, could it have come from one of the many radioactive materials used regularly by the military, certain munitions, components of nuclear vessels, or nuclear weapons themselves? Jake doesn't think so. If the Air Force, let's say, knew that what we were working with that night had any type of radiological signature, there's a whole set of process that we are we're trained in on how to deal with that from a hazmat perspective and a containment perspective. And the fact that none of that was was apparent that night tells me they didn't know what was in the box and it got turned on or turned off, which leads me to believe in hindsight all these years that it may have been something of nonhuman origin. >> Speculation absolutely wild speculation perhaps not when you consider other documented cases of military personnel who claim they were similarly injured by UAP. Take the famous case of Airman John Burrows.

The Veterans Administration granted him full medical disability for injuries to his heart and eyes he claims he suffered during the famous 1980 UAP incident in Rendlessham Forest, England. But that only happened after Senator John McCain intervened to get his medical records declassified. >> They were classified. They just weren't withheld. They were classified.

Why would you feel that the issue was so important as to not uh allow for that person's medical records to be released? What are you hiding? >> The issue came up in last year's congressional UAP hearings. >> How can the government deny we have recovered craft if they're paying people because they've been injured by recovered craft? >> Ma'am, that's a great question. That's why I think we're here again because I've seen the documentation by the US government for several of these individuals who have sustain sustained injuries as a result of a UAP incident. >> What did happen uh is silence is either unethical or an administrative oversight uh that needs investigation by Congress because we shouldn't be putting uh people like this under such circumstances. >> The good news is that now under Dr.

Nolan's care. Jake is getting proper evaluation and treatment. The bad news is Jake believes there's another more imminent threat to his health. His former employer. People have been murdered.

>> That seems to be the case. >> Stay with us. [Music] It wasn't just the United States government interested in using Jake's expertise working with UAPs and psionics. His skills were also needed by private companies involved in the top secret program. And his assignments soon took a turn from recovering UAPs to something more sinister.

What happened? Well, um, we were deployed on a particular task to recover what we call HVTs or highv value targets. Those high-v value targets were Panasonic Toughbooks. The sensitive material that is on these Panasonic Toughbooks uh, has to do with sensor data. Jake and his team suspect those Panasonic Toughbooks contained data from the top secret UAP retrieval operations worth millions to the right buyer. Jake says the private company contracting him was determined to recover them.

>> We recovered our first two uh tough books. They were um they were in the high Sierras. We got back to our our base location and then went through them and took photographs, discovered that the hard drives were missing. >> Jake says his team arrived too late. The hard drives containing the data had already been taken and it became clear to Jake that not all was what it seemed as his team set out to recover the missing data.

The next piece of intelligence that came through led us to uh a lake, an high altitude lake, and we found um the hard drives in a sealed steel container 25 ft underwater. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So, somebody >> someone's going through a lot of effort in order to hide these things. >> Hidden, but by whom? What began as a straightforward recovery mission proved to be anything but simple.

And Jake says things soon took a nefarious turn. >> At any stage did you find yourself under threat. >> The very next time we went out, things got strange um for me and my spidey senses, my intuition was on high alert because our intel contact changed. The rhythm and style of our intel changed. As we got closer to the day in which we were going to deploy, intelligence kept changing.

And so that that raised my concern. Um, we ended up going anyway. And when we got there, the HVTs were gone and it was clear that shots had been fired. >> Shots fired. Whatever was on the computers was a secret so important it was worth fighting for.

The situation had changed. And soon Jake says he realized his team was caught in the middle and their lives were on the line. you were in significant danger. >> Yeah. And I was concerned that we were being set up, we were being prepared for the one thing that we've always offered employers and that is plausible deniability and that we were perhaps going to be the hidden hand that gets severed.

Don Paul, a special forces veteran, was working on Jake's team at the time. >> Were you involved in any of the retrieval attempts? >> Yes. >> Was there a concern that you were being set up potentially? >> Yes. Setup is a mild term. the fact that people have lost their lives involved in this type of activity and the links to which people have gone to suppress politically uncomfortable truths is such that there is risk involved.

>> Do you think that without naming them the private aerospace company that retained you decided to kill you? >> Somebody masquerading as a representative of that company surely may have had that intention. Jake was convinced his former employer or someone posing as them was determined to kill him. But who exactly was calling the shots? Jake was determined to find out. >> Who were you working for? >> It was obvious to us at least who the employer was. Um, but they were now in question in my mind as being part of the problem.

Jake was on the hunt, using his skills and vast network of contacts to determine just who was behind this shadow war fought over these missing hard drives. And he says the trail led him right to the top. This past spring, Jake and his team were in Washington DC conducting surveillance and eventually confronting one of their prime suspects. So I reached out to the director of security for the particular organization and set up a meeting with them because there was only two truths in my minds. Either they were complicit or they were compromised.

>> What was his reaction? Was he nervous? >> Oh, he he was nervous. >> And so he told you to forget it. >> He said, you know, it's in our best interest to move on if he had any knowledge at all. It was clear he's trying to distance himself from it. Jake was no closer to finding out who exactly wanted him dead, but he knew that he was no longer doing the mission he signed up for when he first enlisted, protecting Americans.

To make it stop, he would need more than his handpicked team. He would need Congress. He would need funding. He would need to go public. And he would need us at NewsNation to reveal our own startling UAP footage.

That's next. [Music] Jake Barber says it's now time. Time for the public to know. That's why he's doing this interview. But he's doing much more than talking.

And what you're trying to do now is replicate in the private sphere what's being suppressed in the public sphere. >> Yeah. You know, we we're not looking back, we're looking forward. I am absolutely confident that we are capable of generating the type of highquality sensor data and photography and film evidence that everyone is wanting. So who exactly is we? >> Our organization is called Skywatcher.

We have been recruiting guys from within the program and women and are forming a new team in coordination with government agencies and we also have the funding through venture capital. Can you name those agencies? >> Um not at this time but I I hope to very soon. Jake's Skywatcher team has already deployed on behalf of the US government to investigate last year's drone sightings on the east coast. But before that, they were on the hunt for something even more elusive. In August of 2024, Jake and the Skywatcher team conducted their own operation with a psionic asset to see if they could summon a UAP themselves.

>> Look, there's two. Look at this. Look at this. Look at Look right here. Look at this one going down and this one going up.

>> This footage from another Sky Watcher operation showing the team's protocols. The team hoped to quietly gather evidence for Sky Watcher, but instead found themselves in danger once more. And Jake says a UAP dog fight erupted in the sky above them. He believes the craft summoned by the team was waring with a rogue UAP piloted by an unknown entity attempting to intercept Skywatch's operation. >> Tell me what happened.

>> So, we set out to do this operation. Right away when the psionic asset went into meditation, he is reporting that he is engaged and in fact piloting a craft and is bringing it in. >> So he's actually telepathically controlling alien technology. >> Yes. Yes.

As crazy as that sounds, um that's exactly what we set out to do, what he reported we would do. Um and then things got a little weird. Uh, right about um right about I'd say four or 5 minutes into the operation, he goes, "Something's going on. Something's wrong. Get me out of here." And right about that time, our overwatch Fred looked up to the sky and saw a disc, a classic venticular shaped disc.

>> That was Fred Baker, special operations veteran, now part of the Skyatcher team. So he was flying the egg >> and then when we had to pull him out of this, that's when the egg dropped. >> Wow. So at the very moment that he's essentially detaching his mind from the object, you see it fall, correct? >> Professor Gary Nolan was there that night, too. What I did see was an individual uh who in the midst of attempting to um call such an object.

It was clear that he was in distress at the moment of the uh supposed interaction and at that moment something is seen. When we reviewed what it was that the person on the roof had seen, both by drawing and by videography, uh, something showed up. >> Can we see the egg? >> Yeah. So, here's frame one. Um, the it passed across our entire 69° angle of view in84 seconds on our sensor.

It comes into frame here. So that one there does look like just an an upright oval egg. >> Oval egg. >> And is that similar to what you've seen in the program? >> Oh yeah. Mhm.

This is exactly the same thing. >> Aside from releasing data and footage like this to the public, we're told this video was among those sent to the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office or Arrow, the Pentagon organization responsible for monitoring UAPs. The egg resembles the UAP encountered by US Navy fighters off the east coast of the US in 2015, suggesting a connection between these anomalous objects. But until now, it's never been shown to the public, making Jake's mission even more critical. The SkyWatcher team feels it has to push the federal government to act.

Witnesses at the congressional UAP hearings have been saying the same thing. The Pentagon, the intelligence community is treating us like children. It's time for us to know the truth about this. I think that we can handle it. >> Jake Barber has been to Capitol Hill, too.

NewsNation has confirmed that this fall he met with staffers for Florida Senator Marco Rubio, now President Elect Trump's pick for Secretary of State. >> I feel I was I was able to fill in gaps that have been there for a long time that no other whistleblower has been able to do. A lot of people aren't going to believe this. What do you say to those people? >> I'm not here to make anyone believe anything. It's exhausting.

I'll paraphrase the book of Matthew. You will know us by our fruits. Stay tuned in and watch what our new project is about to do. And prepare to be dazzled. Heat.

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It's linked at the bottom of this video and just click thealthy fat.com/rosts. Now, let's get on with the show. [Music] Professor Gary Nolan, thank you so much for joining us. Can you firstly give me an idea of your credentials to talk about the injuries and the person that we're going to be talking about today? >> So um I'm a PhD molecular immunologist uh in the department of pathology at Stanford University. Uh my background has been in uh developing technologies to deeply understand how the immune system goes arai whether it's in autoimmunity or cancer and over the years we've developed a number of instruments and approaches that are now used around the world uh for doing exactly that.

You've you've been involved before, I know, in special investigations into service personnel and intelligence personnel who suffered injuries, exposures of an anomalous nature. What can you tell us about those investigations? So those investigations started uh literally almost uh 12 years ago uh when representatives from the CIA and an aerospace corporation showed up at my office here at Stanford uh and knocked on the door completely unexpected to me with no prior arrangement and said that they needed my help uh with a number of servicemen uh probably a few dozen at the time who had uh encountered uh everything from rashes is uh headaches uh a number of other ailments uh as well as the in the rare cases uh claiming that they had seen some sort of anomalous objects. The the long and the short of it was uh that after looking at the data that was provided to me by the people who came to my door on that day uh I realized that this was not a joke because you can't fake the kinds of uh MRIs uh and CAT scans that I had seen that showed clear and acute and now chronic damage. I mean you can't have the kind of acute damage that was represented on those uh on the data that I was shown and not expect to have long-term consequences because of it. So the reason they had come to me was because they wanted to understand uh the uh inflammatory processes that might have been occurring in the blood and my laboratory at the time and still today actually has the world's best uh devices for looking at inflammatory processes in the blood.

What were you able to conclude from that research? >> Well, many of the events that uh were brought to me at the time uh had occurred so long ago that there was no residual trace in the blood, nor would would I have expected to to see that. But in follow-ups with a number of the individuals, including one of the people about whom we'll talk today, uh again, there's no possibility of not having long-term consequences that are inclusive of autoimmune disorders. And so in the rare individuals that I was able to follow up with over time, they also had these same kinds of long-term consequences. So, you have an acute injury of some kind that ends up being a long-term uh downside for you. >> Professor, what can you tell me about the specific nature of the kind of injuries you were seeing back then when you started doing this research for the CIA? So uh whole body sclerosis meaning patches of redness across the skin uh disccras uh of the blood at the time we're seeing meaning uh in some of those individuals um uh long-term apparent imbalances in the numbers of uh cell types that you should expect to see in the white blood cells.

weren't able to go into gory detail about it again given the long-term nature of this uh but um you know certainly almost a form of PTSD not only because of the events as they had occurred but the lack of followth through by the department of defense and the Veterans Administration for their long-term care um actually and interestingly leading to now a a um document that's been put out by the uh government on anomalous health incidents that covers in an umbrella sense a lot of these kinds of disorders. >> One of the cases I've investigated and I know you've taken an interest in the subject as well is the Rendlessham case of 1980 and it's public information that a man called John Burrows was exposed to some kind of an injury allegedly as a result of his exposure to an anomalous object in that event. H are you able to talk at all about anything that you know about that case? >> Um you know I really shouldn't because uh it does although some it's it's HIPPA protected I am aware of things behind the scenes related to John that uh you know anything I could say probably touches on HIPPA related knowledge. I mean, what is though public and I can talk about is that uh John McCain, Senator McCain was able to overcome a block that the Department of Defense had initiated on John's medical records. And because that block was in place, John was unable to get the Veterans Administration to agree that he should be insured for the kinds of ailments that he was claiming.

Uh and because of the intervention of some individuals uh through uh Harry sorry through uh John McCain uh they were able to overcome the block to the VA release his medical report that which was sealed uh and that allowed him to get the care that he needed and that probably saved his life. >> Is it a causation or a correlation? Are you able to say definitively that anomalous events possibly involving UAPs, perhaps non-human technology of some kind, have they caused injuries or is there merely a correlation of injuries that you've seen? >> I've seen unfortunately no direct causation. I've seen situations where people have come to me and said the following occurred uh and here are the medical uh events that I didn't have prior to this occurrence. So all I all I have are stories that other people come to me with that are what you would call secondhand stories. Um but I have seen the damage and I can't explain what it is that the damage what would have actually caused such damage absent some kind of radiation.

>> So that was my next question is is what you're seeing in some cases consistent with exposure to damaging gamma radiation. >> Uh well there's all kinds of ionizing radiation gamma amongst them. Uh so any kind of I mean enough heat on you is which is a kind of radiation. Uh it's just a different frequency would cause um different kinds of damage. It's the it's the damage inside of the body that you're most worried about.

I mean there's surface damage of course. Le let's talk about Jake Barber. You've had an opportunity haven't you to meet Jake and essentially take a a history from him. Uh we're talking about his condition with his permission. So Heaper is not an issue here, but obviously we're respectful of his privacy.

Um what can you tell us about what he exposed to? Well, I've looked at all of uh Jake's medical reports going back to practically I think 1998 uh 2000 uh and I think he was 21 or 23 or so at the time. Um, and the acute uh injuries were obviously severe uh including uh iththemma all the way down the arm, slloing off of skin from the arm, uh long-term damage. I mean, the the the report reads like a bit of a horror show to be quite honest. Um, and uh, I I wouldn't say that his physicians were not responsive to the need, but what I saw throughout was uh, a confusion on the part of the physicians as to what could possibly cause this. I mean they can drop it into a set of symptomologies of but they can't explain why under one particular uh causation you would get all of these things absent to me what the first thing that came to mind was you were exposed to some kind of radiation.

And so I uh especially since I only came to know Jake in the last year or so, my uh strong recommendation to him at the time was we need to get uh a full workup of what it is and how it stands now. Because if this was radiation, I mean, one of the obvious consequences of radiation, especially something which would cause this kind of systemic effect is cancer. And so you need a baseline whole body MRI done so that maybe you don't have something now. Uh but that you know the best thing in cancer is that you can see a change that has occurred over time. So let's get that done.

Um, and I saw had him seen by one of the world's best rheatologists uh to make sure that we had the blood drawn from him, not just as a standard uh um white blood cell count and things like that, but to be able to do a full-on rheumatologic test for the kinds of co-actors and things that I know can be done with modern uh modern tests today that probably weren't well I know weren't done uh back in the day. Do you think the secrecy surrounded the kind of operations that Jake did as a tier one operator? Do you think the secrecy confounded the proper medical treatment that he should have received despite the perhaps good intentions of his doctors? >> I actually it's a great question. I would have to talk to Jake to see whether or not he was ever denied anything, but certainly he wasn't given the kinds of advice that he should have been given. I would say because the what the advice that I gave him was here are the XYZ things that you need to have done for you and here are the kinds of people that you need to see. So, had the VA been on their toes and had the VA, let's say, because of the kinds of um situations uh and deployments that Jake was uh put into, uh you know, and the kinds of complaints that he came back to, any manager, uh who had even uh an inkling of empathy or or forethought would have said, "Hey, uh here's what we need to go have done for you, XYZ." and especially as I understand it, uh a number of his uh um co-workers in the deployments that he was in uh had similar problems.

So, you're not dealing with a one-off who went home and somehow uh came in contact with something in the house, but you have uh four or five individuals all at once coming down with the same thing uh within a week or so after deployment. That's more than a coincidence. So, can I just clarify here, professor, you've been able to look at all of Jake's former military medical records, uh, and you've been able to satisfy yourself as to the level of ex essentially what what's described about what he suffered? What do the records show about the purported injury that he suffered? Well, the well, first of all, having to trying to read some of the doctor's scribbling was hard enough, but um the uh you know, it was it was very clear that there were acute injuries to the arm and uh the legs uh sorry, the arms and the hands. So, here are some of the consolidated findings. One of them uh that I know he deals with even to this day is uh alipcia, a form something called migratory alipesia, hair loss that moves from one area of the body to the other.

And that's consistent with a kind of autoimmune reaction, which is that the immune system takes care of something once or you get some sort of local injury in on one day or one week and then that initiates an immune reaction uh in one place or another. Uh another is a vicicular rash. So uh skin eruptions which are characterized by small blister filling things. Again a kind of autoimmunity but it's not an autoimmunity that you get with you know when you have when you have um one kind of autoimmunity usually doesn't come and show up as five different kinds of autoimmunities. Here are some other ones.

uh and this is related in in fact to it a form of uh infection with the yeast candida uh candida albocans and so you get something called candiidas chronic mucoutcutout candidasis uh and that's a form of yeast infection and what's interesting about that is that basically means at least one of two things one is that you have either an underlying immune disorder that's occurring uh which is allowing for the for the candida to grow on the skin or you have some kind of disruption in the dermal apparatus and dermal protection which means that you've had some sort of autoimmune reaction which allows for the skin to be broken the candida lands it's in our environment grows that forms and causes further rashes etc and that sets up um sort of you you you start with a brush fire and soon it becomes a full-on forest test fire. That's one of them. Um, and it looks like uh a general autoimmune uh dis disease, arythmatitosis, uh, maculopapular dry lesions on the hands and feet. All of these things adding up to a disrupted immune system that's been set off kilter and is unable to write itself again. Uh and so the only kinds of things that uh cause that are either uh intense exposure to toxins of one kind or another, an intense infection at one point in one's life that can set these kinds of things off uh or some kind of um consequential exposure to uh radiation of some kind.

>> So that's what you've been able to aduce from the medical records. You've done a whole series of tests now and you've obviously overturned from this room at >> I haven't I I haven't done any tests. Um tests have been done but they have not provided him uh the results yet. >> So you believe that one of the plausible explanations for why Jake has the injuries that he's clearly suffered is that potentially he's been exposed to some kind of severe radiation. >> Yeah.

I mean that's the easiest uh reach for this. Now there's ways to test for that. There might be ways to test for um in the skin uh an excess of uh mutation uh in the skin. Now interestingly um one of the things that uh Jake has although it could be just due to intense sun exposure is um what are called atypical compound neas. Uh, and those are these uh irregularly shaped brown spots that very often Caucasians have and you're more likely to find them in people of uh Irish or Celtic descent.

But um atypical compound neas is a form of re of it's a result of exposure to damaging radiation of one kind or another. One of the anomalies, if you like, about Jake's story is officially in his DD214, he's only described as an aircraft mechanic, but it's clear from his service record and and the fuller extent of the details of his service that we've been able to obtain from the documents and also from some of his fellow colleagues. He was clearly operating as an elite tier one operator in a very covert role with the US government. Is that your impression as well? >> Yes. Um my interactions with Jake uh over the last year in including uh visiting him at a let's call it a work site uh clearly indicated to me that Jake's uh not just a helicopter operator.

uh he's he's he's not a taxi. Uh that's for sure. Um and his level of knowledge and the things that he was able to uh talk to me about that were not uh releasing or pro providing any information he wasn't supposed to provide. But the people with whom he surrounded himself uh and their level of activity and action uh was they're not just a conveyor of somebody's goods that they are deeply knowledgeable about this subject matter. And it actually for me watching and listening to the kinds of things that uh they did the the level of sophistication of things that are going on behind the scenes was uh eyeopening to me.

Let's talk about in a limited way what you personally witnessed. Um there was a summoning. There was a psionic operator brought to a location. We won't stipulate where. What did you see? >> Well, I I saw two things.

One, I saw uh an individual who claimed the ability to me, which is even to me is almost unbelievable to hear that somebody claims to have that kind of um capability. Um, but we also had somebody with us who was uh using uh electromagnetic uh summoning, if you will, uh basically putting out um radio frequency that might or might not be attractive to alleged craft. Um, I personally didn't see anything in the sky or on the ground, but what I did see was an individual uh who in the midst of attempting to um call such an object, which again to anybody listening and my science colleagues who might hear me say this was just it was just I I I don't even believe that I'm sitting here seeing this exactly at the moment uh that he said he was uh interacting with something. Uh the individual on the roof who had the cameras saw something. Now, they didn't know nor were they in contact with each other, but we could hear uh a commotion on the roof.

uh when everything was over and we had uh calmed down the individual who uh said that he had had some issues and uh or in the process of this summoning um and we made sure that medically he was okay uh because on the team we actually did have somebody who was medically trained. Uh when we reviewed what it was that the person on the roof had seen both by drawing and by videography, uh something showed up. Uh I mean it was fleeting. Uh but it was clearly not a bug. And so uh what do I have? I have a person who claims to be doing something.

uh it was clear that he was in distress at the moment of the uh supposed interaction and at that moment something is seen. What do you have? You have a cor you have a correlation. You don't have a causation. Um and so that's that's it. But I was there not to provide any conclusions.

I was there to make sure that everything that was being done was being done in a scientifically accurate way as dispassionately as possible. uh and to be part of the uh of the advisor team to make sure that this was done in a way that at some point if it ever wanted to be put together into a scientific paper. We had collected the kind of metadata required uh to say well we might not have a conclusion but here is at least a story that tells us um that the data which we're providing to perhaps some future event might be looked back to and said oh well what happened there worked that didn't work so let's try this again so that we can perhaps make it repeatable. So, professor, on the evidence you've seen, do you find it plausible that the US government is using psionic psychic operators to attract UAP, NHI craft? >> I can only say what I what I saw there was somebody who claimed to be interacting with something. Um, do I think it's possible? Ah, you know, we are already uh working in the world of the Elon Musks who are putting devices into people's brains to be able to talk directly to brains.

I have no problem imagining a technology a thousand years from now where even humans can interact with each other in some sort of pseudocion psionic manner. I I I don't know what it is that uh might be required to interact with a non-human intelligence. But what I can say is that the area within which we were working uh was uh absent of any possible overfly from commercial jets because it was a mandated area where nothing such could occur. So what it was that we saw wasn't a flyover. It certainly wasn't a bug.

Uh so we can get rid of all of those um opportunities. But the fact that the group with whom we were working were able to openly operate in this area because they had openly operated in this kind of area before uh and knew how to do it. tells me that there's a process in place for individuals of this type to access where they're freely allowed to uh do what they're what they're doing. I think we can expect uh as has happened in the past that there may be attempt disinform the public about Jake Barber. What are you able to tell me about your impressions of the authenticity and the honesty of Jake Barber as a result of your interactions with him? Oh, >> I worked with him directly for a week and anybody who thinks that he's other than what he presents himself as uh just should get out of the way.

Um, there's no reason to think of him as anything other than an honest broker at every level, ethical to the nth degree, empathic to a degree that I wouldn't frankly bizarrely expect as an academic elitist uh from somebody in a military capacity as such that he is far more human than many of the scientists with whom I have to interact every day. these men and we've interviewed Jake and his colleagues including the man who was on the roof with the cameras. Um these men have been profoundly, haven't they, by what they've witnessed. Yes. And again, you have individuals whose daily job is to protect the United States.

I mean, that's their day job. That's what their day job has been for the last many years. uh and anybody who thinks that these are not professionals uh who uh have something to say and are in I think the most scientifically accurate sense they've seen something anomalous they recognize it as being out of place they're willing to put their lives their families their jobs their reputations on the line to point out to others that this is something that should be paid attention to I mean that's just the very nature of forward movement. Uh and that anybody scientists or government or anybody would try to disinform or stigmatize that just is it's to me it's just it's a level of vileeness and disreputable behavior that I just don't I don't understand how anybody could do it and say that just because it's my job to do it that I should do it. They should just anybody who who who that's their job, they should resign.

>> Let's be very clear about this, sir. Jake Barber and his colleagues allege that they have been party to an operation involving the luring of and shooting down of and retrieval of nonhuman technology, alien spacecraft. Do you find their accounts plausible? >> I sat at dinner several evenings uh over beers and otherwise while we were uh partaking in this operation and I heard nothing that would tell me that what they were telling me was not true. It all seemed to fit together in a way that in some of the details that I I I don't I don't know what was relayed, but some of the details were so astounding to me. I found I felt like I was sitting in a science fiction movie until I thought to myself, well, if some of these observations are true that people are claiming to see or involve themselves with What would you need to construct behind the scenes that is that sensibly even in a science fiction setting makes sense of all of this? And what I heard was at least a story that tied it together.

But the story that tied it together involved a level of government complicity and medical complicity from individuals who how could you possibly subject some of these individuals? And I saw some of the medical reports again of other individuals who were part of these teams. How could you be complicit in doing this to some of these individuals and signing off on it? I mean, your name is right there. We know who you are and you're still doing what you were doing before. It just astounds me uh that uh it's the the the records are are as clear as day. It's not some of these, especially the medical records are not, hey, someone's telling me something.

The medical records are there. And they're the same kinds of medical records that I got uh when the CIA showed up in my office. And it's that level of detail. All you can say is somebody isn't doing their job. So, Professor, as Jake Barber describes it, he and his colleagues were asked to escort what he describes as a very large box on an on a flight, which brought this object, whatever it was inside the box, back to the continental United States.

They were never told what was in the box, but that he got very very sick. He and his colleagues in the days following their exposure, their close proximity to that box. Now, are you able to say are you able to make any kind of a conclusion at all about the nature of the radiation that they received? Was it anomalous or were are you able to reach any conclusion about the um perhaps what might be the cause of that radiation? >> Well, I mean what you can say at the least is that there was a form of penetrative radiation because it was more than just skin damage. Some of the apparent damage uh went skin deep, right? Or went deeper into the bodies. Um now I haven't seen any MRIs from these individuals to look for the scarring but the um the kinds of effects such as the whole body depolation, loss of hair um and not just on the side of the body that you're sitting next to it on the on the helicopter or plane.

Um but that its whole body means that it probably penetrated through the body. Right? Okay. So you're you've got it with your back to you got it in the front but your your eyebrows uh the hair falls out etc. So penetrative generally means gamma uh you know or very high level radiation um it's not just something like alpha or low low energy. So, I I can't say what was in the box.

Obviously, it could have been from a a a nuclearpowered airplane for all I know. Uh it doesn't matter. Uh some sort of test vehicle. Um but that they were not made aware of what was going to be in the box. That that's sounds unethical that you're told to go pick up something which is known to be radiative.

Uh that's to me problematic. >> Now from the previous and unrelated work that you've done with the CIA, you've you've examined military service personnel who've been exposed to what sounds like anomalous phenomena uh including potentially directed energy weapons of some kind. What you're seeing with Jake are similar types of injuries. Correct. >> Right.

So over the hundred or so individuals that we looked at um they had a paniply of different symptoms uh the majority of those patients uh 85 to 90% of them of the literally hundred that we looked at um it was pretty clear that they had symptomologies that were so similar to Havana syndrome as it would be uh easy enough to say these are Havana syndrome. Now, Havana syndrome is actually a syndrome in medical terminology is a set of symptoms. It's not like a disease like COVID causes disease. Ebola causes a disease and you have a specific uh set of expected outcomes. In both those cases, some of those outcomes could be death.

um in a symptom or a syndrome I should say it's usually you have about 20 or so different symptoms which you have to have let's say 15 of those symptoms to be classified under the syndrome. Uh so some of the individuals even those that we said were Havana syndrome had sclerosis on their skin. So they there some whatever the radiation was that's being was being used caused radi caused uh damage to the skin. Other would get headaches. Now that makes perfect sense because if over the course of 20 years whoever was using these directed energy weapons uh developed better and better versions of it, you would expect that the damage that it causes over those decades would be different.

No problem there. Um, but when you have now uh a situation such as a radiation such as what uh Jake Barber was uh exposed to, it would fall under some of the symptoms uh of um of uh Havana syndrome but would have in this case especially long-term 20 plus year consequences of a disrupted immune system that has uh really basically I'm surprised he can he can function as well as he does dayto-day. >> What do you think of the ethics of the decisions made by the people who obviously made the orders to send people like Jake into these operations? What do you think of the ethics of the people behind these operations in deploying young men and indeed young women into situations where they have been exposed to dangerous levels of radiation? You know, I mean, I I understand that in the military, uh, tough choices have to be made, and if the uh and you sign up for a certain level of of danger all the way up to and including death. So, um, on all sides, I I honor what they what they've done. But I also think that there's an ethics of do no harm uh when you don't have to.

And so in a situation where you could, you know, unless there was some desperate need to get to it before somebody else did or put other people under harm's in harm's way, uh to at the very least send them with the kinds of protective gear that they could have had to prevent what did happen uh is sound as either unethical or an administrative oversight uh that needs investigation by Congress. because we shouldn't be putting uh people like this under such circumstances. >> So Gary, I know that you've I know that you've taken an interest previously, Jim case, which was the Raph Bentwaters case at a British air base, which the Americans were also occupying in around 1980. And there were a number of military personnel who reported coming into contact with what they say was a craft of some kind acting anomalously in the Rendlessham forest adjacent to a military base that we know carried nuclear weapons for the American military. And one of the personnel that was the close up to the craft, in fact probably one of the closest was an airman named John Burrows.

And I'm aware that John Burrow's medical reports were at one stage withheld by the American government uh and they were declined to be provided to him so that he could get the treatment that he needed from Veterans Affairs, the VA. What do you know about that case? >> Well, certainly everything you said uh that you just told me there, I know about. I mean, I was working with individuals behind the scenes to try to get the relevant information uh to John McCain so that we could get his uh medical records declassified. They were classified. They just weren't withheld.

They were classified. Um and what was happening was that uh Mr. Burroughs could not get the medical attention he needed because the insurance services in the VA wouldn't uh allow for it. So again, you have a you have a situation where someone has been uh so let's say that whatever it was that was at um uh at that site was a US military test object. Why would you put your your military service people in harm's way? First of all, uh maybe they didn't know what the danger was.

either the people putting him in harm's way or not. But then why would you subsequently feel that the issue was so important as to not uh allow for that person's medical records to be released? What are you hiding? What's being hidden here? When it turned out that it required a senator in the US to directly demand to the Department of Defense, release it or I will. >> It really does beg the question, professor, doesn't it? Is the reason for the continuing non-disclosure about a nonhuman intelligence that's allegedly engaging with is it really for the high-minded reasons that are often cited privately by the gatekeepers? Or is it perhaps because they're worried about being held to account for the allegedly unethical and potentially illegal, if not criminal things that we're talking about today? >> Yeah. I mean that to me is when I'm asked what is it that uh might be the reasons for things being hidden. I don't think it's because the populace is going to go running screaming into the streets worried about you know non-human intelligence.

I think they're really still as we see today worried about what puts foods on the on the table. Um I think you're right. One of the main reasons certainly could be we don't want this information out because I'm going to get in trouble. someone's going to get in trouble for something unethical. Where's the paperwork that these people are filling out to make sure that the people that they're uh responsible to and for are being taken care of the way that they should and certainly when it comes to the long-term consequences of of human health uh and then the health of their children.

I mean, God, if you were putting a serviceman in a radiative position, they should be worried about what kind of things are happening to their children because they're going to have children, you know, and and that's it's mind-blowing to me that somebody would try to hide this and not counsel uh the servicemen as to the dangers not only to themselves, but also to the children that they might have one day. >> So, professor, clearly there is an allegation that I personally find highly confronting and incredible at the heart of the claims being made by Jake and his colleagues. The allegation is that the United States government is secretly colluding with private corporations using what are called operators, people with purported psychic abilities. What do you think of these allegations? Well, if they're true, it's probably one of the most extraordinary things I've ever heard. Um, I don't know anything other than what I heard sitting across the table uh from the individual individuals claiming to be involved in this process and claiming what their history has been with the uh US government going back to their childhood.

I mean, it's just I I don't know what to think. It it it it's extraordinary. I mean the only place I can relate it to my own work is where I've been looking at the codipotaman um and the connections there where we did see in let's call them high functioning individuals mostly very intelligent individuals uh that this was the heart of where intuition happens and we came to that conclusion independently of what was happening in the rest of the world where simultaneous analyses by mainstream scientists had come to the conclusion that we did that day because of the work that we were doing with the with those uh patients that this is the area where intuition happens. Well, what's another word for remote viewing or clairvoyance or whatever you want to call it in a purely scientific sense, somebody with darn good intuition. So as I've said before uh you know if you wanted to know where such an ability might exist might allege to be existing uh that would be the heart of it in the codatement and what we found found interestingly is that people with who had claimed high function in remote viewing were at the highest of the list of those who had this connectivity pattern.

So, there's something interesting there. Again, I don't have a conclusion as to what it is, but there's enough data there for me to say it's well worth looking into. Uh, and how could we perhaps turn this function on? Wouldn't you like to be able to predict which way the dice might roll? And and the fascinating thing to me is that whilst you have one section of the US military denying that there is such a thing as psychic phenomena and telepathy, it's the CIA's own records that there's been a continuing investigation into the phenomenon since the 1970s Stargate program that Halutoff played a role in at SRRI that they've never really stopped investigating the phenomenon of alleged psychic behavior. Well, it continued uh into um the 80s and 90s in uh military programs uh that were eventually at one point called the Spidey Sense program where what they were doing was they were identifying uh people in squads who the rest of the squad member said, "Hey, when Joe says don't go that way, we should go that way." the people that they trusted. Now, maybe they were picking up something, I mean, a skeptic, and I'm a skeptic.

They pick up something in the in the atmosphere that says, "Don't go that way. It just it feels wrong, and we go this way." So, people who are survival survivalists by virtue of just good guesses. But, you know, there's something to be said for the, you know, the the primate that knows not to go down this path because there's a jaguar down that path and you go down this path because it's safe. Uh, and you pick up something else that is in the ether. And by that I mean something that isn't what you would call a natural electromagnetic interaction, but there might be something else going on at another level uh that the human brain is capable of uh understanding and manifesting into thought.

I'm perfectly fine with that. Until you can take it off the table as an option to say that all interactions are electromagnetic, then uh it's a possibility. I mean, we don't know how two objects at a distance in quantum interaction somehow communicate, you know, and that and that that puzzles the world's best physicists to this day. And they call it quantum non-locality. Well, what the heck does that mean? You know, it can mean a lot of stuff, but what it means is, as far as most people are concerned, it's some form of interaction at a distance without electromagnetic interaction.

So, that's really all you're talking about when you say psionics. So, you know, I I I don't know. Oh, I can imagine a lot of real world ways it could be done without without uh you know being dependent upon something that other people would call woo or magic. I'm perfectly fine with something uh let's call it psionics something sighbased that is just a form of communication and and physics that we don't quite yet understand. Maybe there's a way to interact with quantum interaction at a distance that somebody else has mastered and we haven't yet.

But they're perfectly able to either use it to transmit or receive. There is coming, isn't there, professor, for what has been done inside what we loosely call the program. There are people who are going to have to be held to account for their decisions and their actions. I hope so. Perhaps the new administration incoming uh will feel that there's a level of transparency that can be brought to this uh um issue in a way that prior administrations couldn't.

Uh I've certainly heard a lot of rumors and talk about it uh from the incoming uh members uh of the new administration. So, uh, I'm fully supportive of that if they decide to do so because I'd like to go back to my day job. I'd like to go back to my day job, you know, um, you know, the my my day job is cancer research. If there's nothing here, I'm pretty good at my job. Let me get back to it.

Professor, I appreciate you are a top level international scientist and you understandably will be skeptical and guarded in what you're prepared to say, but I've interviewed you previously and you've been very forthcoming about your belief that or your knowledge that there is indeed a nonhuman intelligence engaging with this planet about here though from Jake Barber and his colleagues is on another level entirely for the first time firsthand witnesses to what we say is a retrieval program involving a nonhuman intelligence technology. Tell me what you think about the credibility of these witnesses and what are your impressions about the whole idea of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet when we still are in a situation where the military the Pentagon is flatly asserting that there is no evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial intelligence engaging with this planet. So, everybody that I've interacted with around this particular incident has been they're either the best actors in the world and are all deserving of an Oscar next year or what they're telling me is uh the truth. I'm a good read of body language and personalities and uh what I saw the way in which they acted. They didn't just act as people as a part in a play.

they acted in a way that showed that they'd done this before. Um, and so that told me that they knew what they were doing. They weren't doing this for the first time. You know, they don't bring a Stanford professor to a secure site to witness this. Uh, so that the that you know, there wasn't all of this effort put into it just for me.

I was just there for observation. Um there's no reason to expect that anything that they were doing uh was a lie or or put on for show. Um it just lends further support to things that I've already said before. Uh that the chance that all of this is by chance uh or is just a whole bunch of mistakes is diminishingly small. It's to the point now where it's up to the true skeptics to come forward and say, "What are the standards that you're going to require for there to be proof?" Does an alien or an extraterrestrial or a non-human intelligence have to walk out on stage and shake your hands? Is that your standard of proof? or is your standard approved that of a scientist which says I see preliminary data here and something which is even more than preliminary data that says hey it's time to put together uh a public response and a public program that allows the public to know what the data is rather than putting all the money into things that are going on clearly behind the scenes that you're just going to basically black out uh when any reports are being provided.

divided. I I think those days are over. >> Can I get a definitive statement from you, Gary, on what you think you know about the existence of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet? My personal experience both with people and the things that I've seen is that there's something here. My problem is again as a scientist that's my set of anecdotes. I need to get it into a form that I can hand to another scientist who sits in the office next to me and said, "Here's the data that you can use." There's so much data it out there already that it's how do I compile a minimum list so that I can get a colleagueu's attention for the five minutes required to get them to say either it should be something that they follow up on or they're they can still go back to their day job.

I I I mean I'm You're trying to get me to say something that I just I'm not going to go over that line because I if I don't maintain a certain level of skepticism, I just lose the credibility that I require for my scientific colleagues to feel that I'm uh a uh a neutral observer. >> I thank you for what you did give me, professor. Thank you so much. [Music]