UFO Gatekeepers, Abductions, Jacques Vallée & Ancient Mythology | Jason Samosa

Transcript

This next guest on Realm Travel is an incredibly talented upandcoming YouTuber in this UFO space. What I really respect about him is that he actually tries to dive deep into the research and vast materials from credible sources that we do have and attempts to draw some sort of conclusions from it so we can deepen our understanding of this wild phenomenon wherever it may lead. together we engage in some wild speculation but also keep our leashes just tight enough. I really hope you enjoy the conversation that we had together as much as I did. My name is JP and please welcome Jason Samosa to this episode of Realm Travel.

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That's www.coom mp a wre e.com. And if you use promo code jp2025, you can get 10% off of your order. Thank you compadre for sponsoring this video. Now back to the show. All right, we've got a fellow traveler here, Jason samosa.

Delicious name, by the way. I'm really excited to talk with you. Uh, I have to say, man, I I think there's this delicate dance you have to do or one has to do when dealing with controversial topics whose implications are so huge, but we we're not certain. You have to you have to like present a compelling argument. You have to make a high quality video that people aren't going to immediately click away when they see it.

But you also have to be careful not to present a sensationalist one. And I think you walk that dance really well. You walk that line really well because you present really compelling evidence in a really conscientious way. I think you ask ask the right questions, but you say yourself like you don't know. You're not certain.

[snorts] Um and I think that makes you credible. So I really I really like your channel, man. >> Thanks. I appreciate it. It's it's well, first it's great to be here and thank you for having me on and I really appreciate what you're saying.

You know, as you were saying it, I was just thinking maybe one of the reasons that I'm I'm in that ballpark is cuz I haven't had an experience, right? Like I think if I'd had like a series of really intense experiences, I'd probably focus on those because that would have shaped my my subjective reality without having had those. The only phenomena that I've got to engage with is the bizarre behavior of the United States government. and um you know that that's something that everyone can see. I think it's probably a bit more difficult if you're trying to explain subjective stuff which is still legitimate. So it maybe it's just a product of the fact that all I've got is documents and strange testimony.

Well, but that's all we have. like you I mean if you're going to take this seriously and you're going to do what the skeptics claim nobody ever does and look at the evidence then I mean we have we have to look at what we have and we have these alleged insiders and you know you you work off of Jacqu Valet's notes you work off of you work off of the people who have been pushing this disclosure movement forward in in the last I mean I guess almost 10 years now and I think you made a really point there. It's like the most anomalous behavior that's easily provable is is the US government and and the the people in Congress made such a great point. It's like if there's nothing to it, why not share all of the data? I mean, >> exactly. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think I think that's that that is a big thing. Whenever I'm speaking to people about this topic, I I generally don't start with trying to explain what's out there because we don't know. But there is just a mystery happening right now. Why has the government the government's a big term, right? But a group of people inside the government been systematically pushing this topic for, you know, 2013, maybe 2011 is kind of when it started.

And that, you know, we have to account for that whether or not aliens are real or UFOs is is ours or theirs or whatever. Like that is incredibly strange and it's something that uh it just keeps my brain ticking round. So, it's a real passion. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Same here. And and and to be honest, even if like for whatever reason, if these objects, for a better lack of a better term, if there are some sort of meteor meteorological phenomenon, if it's if it's simply a hallucination, which I I don't think it is, but even if it was, or if it's some animal we haven't discovered, I still want to know. But I mean this brings me to my first sort of topic I want to discuss with you because as as dis our modern era of disclosure moves along the the bandwidth of our understanding expands and to me that expansion means what if not all of this is extraterrestrial. What if this is a broader thing? And that's where we get to like to me that brings me immediately back to TTSA and Tom Dong and I think I forget which one of your videos you address this on. I think it's several but I think that's a really good place to start.

Do you think do you think in in your opinion how much of that was a limited hangout >> and how much of that was people genuinely trying to to push disclosure through the media and through popular characters? >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I think this this is where I started my fascination because this whole thing for those of you, you know, I'm assuming most people know, but effectively in 2016, Tom Dong comes out, starts saying, "I'm speaking with all of these people from the government. They're the people who run the UFO thing. I found them.

They're telling me this stuff. It's all going to come out." He sounded crazy. And um it was when the Wikileaks emails came out in 2016, the Podesta emails. You can still go and see them on Wikileaks. I think they're back online now.

And you can just search Tom Dong UFO and there's like 40 emails back and forth including senior people, General Neil McCasslin, General Mike Kerry, um, and Robert Vice from the Skunk Works. And um, I think it's a great place to start because like we were saying a a moment ago, there is an anomalous phenomenon happening in the government and that's one place where you can literally lift up a thing you were never supposed to see. You were never supposed to see these communications, but they're there showing you there was a conversation between fourstar, well, these were two star generals from the Air Force and the the guy who ran Loheed Martin skunk works um about UFOs with a rockstar. Why? So, um your question is great. [snorts] Uh, and it's the question I asked.

And what I've realized is now having looked at this for like two gosh three years. I've looked at that topic as deeply as I can. I think it's a mix and I know it's not a satisfying answer, but here's here's what I understand. Dong was passionate about this stuff going back into the 2000s. He was first on Coast to Coast AM in 2011, I think December of that year, and he was already saying a lot of the same stuff that he would say later on.

Okay, so this tells us he already had got information from Steven Greer from different books. He formed a um an interesting opinion about this. He started to form um an artistic project called To the Stars um which is like a multimedia through his albums, through movies, through comics really trying to like open up this topic to young people. And then in 2015 2015 he suddenly makes contact with these extremely senior people. Um and I think a few things happened here.

So his int I think Tom's intentions were 100% true like he genuinely wanted to get the information and I think these people from the defense and intelligence community were planning a what's called a confirmation right they they were like it's not disclosure it's confirmation which I think is like we're not going to reveal everything terrible we ever did we're not going to show you all the crimes what we're going to do is we're going to trickle out information that confirms that there is a presence and that this topic should be taken seriously, right? So, it's sort of a midway thing. Um, but somewhere in there, other stuff gets mixed in. So, you know, the last video I made, we really dug into Jacqu Valet's journals from this period cuz he met Tom Dong when this was going on, and you begin to see like all of this weird Nazi mythology stuff coming out. And don't get me wrong, like I I've got a whole file of like evidence I've been collecting that the Nazis did persist after World War II and they did develop advanced technology. I don't think they mastered it, but they certainly seem to be developing discshaped craft.

And there's testimony that the Nazis, senior Nazis, claimed they had help. So, I'm I'm into it. >> But the story that Dong was being told by some of his advisers was pretty out there. and it included um quite direct references to a neo-Nazi presence in South America today, which is very different to let's create a big mythology and put it in cinemas to get the youth acclimatized to this this huge story. That's like that's the kind of backstory you'd want if you wanted to convince young children that the war in Venezuela is a good thing, you know? like I'm not I'm not necessarily tying those two things together, but there's a difference between historical mythology and something that has geopolitical consequences today.

So that's one thing would be these advisers mixed in some stuff that's like what does that mean? What are you trying to achieve? The other thing I would say is there are people from to the stars academy like Jim Semivan, Chris Melon who seem to be aware that that's going on and they're like not so comfortable with that but also still see the project as being legitimate and necessary. So you got to mix. I think there are different people with different agendas who are just they just want disclosure even if it means signing up to some weird stuff. M I think that's a good point and I think that's a responsible standpoint to take on it because this whole this whole subject is fraught with disinformation probably trickled in with some truth. I mean you encounter this over and over again and it's this this all I can really say is a sense because I haven't seen the actual evidence to say whether or not it's true.

But you have all these whistleblowers, quote unquote whistleblowers. I mean, leading back into the '9s with like people who claim they worked at S4. And here's the four different types of craft. I mean, I'm not even talking about Bob Rar. I'm talking about like people before that who like sat down with um oh, I forget who the author was, but he wrote a bunch of different UFO books and crash retrieval books.

And this guy was like, "This one has high >> which one?" >> Lennon Stringfield. >> No, not that guy. He wrote the book um UFO Crash, UFO China, like that whole series of books. I'll I'll I'll find the name and I'll I'll put his picture up in the podcast to make up for my uh misremembering, but you know, it's like and and it makes you it makes me wonder like some of this has got to be fake. I mean, there's like the the security in these programs has got to be insane.

And then going back to like what James Latsky has said who is you know the head of OAP you know that every program has a counter intelligence officer you know and so it's almost impossible to find out but just going back to TTSA it's like [snorts] I think no matter what the product of no matter what the intentions were behind TTSA and these these ghostly advisors what has happened the product is I think good. The end product is that mainstream. We have very serious people coming forward now with the age of disclosure. All of these like government folks who say like these objects are real. We don't know what they are.

That I'm not so sure about. Um and they're a national security threat. The question is is like were they were these like figures battling with other figures with different agendas like you said? And here's here's a weird weird question in the middle of my rambling is you know Lou Alzando brings up this question is like why now? Everyone wants to know why now? Mhm. >> I want to ask do you think that part of the reason why now is because somewhere somebody has had some success with derivative technology and now they feel safe discussing it or do you think like what do you think there? >> Um I love this question. I love it.

You know the why why now question. It's I made a whole video about it where I was just like and I think I had like 20 different theories. So you this could be a long answer, but let me um let me actually trace it back to something else. I I um I used to work in sales and if you're selling big deals to a an organization, they they don't, you know, you can't just pressure them into it, right? Like if I'm trying to sell you um an encyclopedia, uh you know, I could use like emotional tactics and all these things to try and convince you to buy it and how it's this source of knowledge and you're going to become this elevated person and you might just pay there and then. If you're trying to sell, I don't know, half a million dollar software deal organization, um you can't just force them to do it.

They're not going to change their mind. What you what you do in the world of sales is you look for something called a compelling event. And a compelling event is something that that organization is going to face that they simply can't get away from. In my experience, it was things like they might be audited and when that audit happens, they're not going to be able to do it because they don't have visibility of the things that the auditors are asking for. So that's happening in September of the of next year.

They have to buy a product now to solve that. That would be a compelling event. >> Or um I don't know, they're going to go through a merger and they're not prepared for the technical stuff that's going to happen then, you know. So these sorts of things are not things that you control, but they're like external events that you simply have to be prepared for. And that's the only way to move extremely large organizations.

Pressure won't work. I think the same logic applies to UFO disclosure. And this might be me stepping way outside of my my, you know, wheelhouse here, but I just think that the only thing that's going to create this movement is if there's something in pending, and it doesn't have to be. um an asteroid or a spaceship coming or whatever. It could be China is about to crack this technology and we're gonna have huge questions or I don't know that that there's some sort of pivotal moment coming where certain things are going to happen.

For me that is the best explanation is something external. It's not pressure from citizens or a group. Um but the the answer to that what what that might be is muddied and I suspect intentionally I I suspect um there's been all sorts of random stuff thrown out about 2027 to potentially acclimatize us to the idea gradually. 3II Atlas has done a tremendous job of this by the way like whatever that is. It's done a phenomenal job of getting this idea of what could happen into the media.

So there's probably an a climatization thing going on and behind it all I don't know what it could be. But yeah, I like the way you asked the question like were you sort of implying that maybe China could be on the brink of reverse engineering something or >> Well, I think that's that could be one avenue, but I have so many different things I want to cover here based on your answer. This is so fascinating because >> uh as you were speaking a thought came into my mind. It was actually an interview with Matthew McConeyhe and he talked about I like what you said about sales and just made me think about this is he likes to describe his favorite type of director. His favorite type of director is someone who listens to him takes in his points of view like hey Mr.

director, I think that my character should, you know, have a twitch in his left eye and, you know, every once in a while he's going to need to put an eye drop in that eye. And and the director's like, "Yeah, yeah." And and maybe he needs to have really thick glasses and and he takes takes Matthew McConn's point of view and molds it uses his passion and his mold and molds that passion closer to his original kind of view. And you know, it seems like Tom Dong from one of the quotes you showed in your video, he's like, you know, I had all these theories and I went into this group of people and I said, you know, this is how I see it. And they said, okay. And you know, if it would make sense to me, we're engaging in wild speculation, by the way.

I just want to put this out there. >> You have to you have no other choice, right? No one's telling us. >> Yeah. So until then, here's my wild speculation. you can't show your hand to China.

Um, at least maybe back then because now they in the age of disclosure they mention China so many times. But the the idea that um the idea of like letting a popular figure lead the charge and like influence young people, that alone was good for them because maybe the whole thing was about China. Let's just say the whole thing was about China. But you don't you don't want to show your hand to China. Like, China, we know what you're doing.

We have satellite satellite footage. We know you have five craft. You know, we're trying to figure out more about this. But if we say that out loud, that's that's that could be an issue for them. But maybe instead there's this 2026 2027 threat that we put out there so that there's this urgency, but it it it's more complicated than that.

I could see that being the case, but I I'm I'm I'm reluctant to completely dismiss 2026, 2027 because of Chris Bledsoe and just how genuine he seems. Um, but again, he's another guy who's got people whispering in in his ears at all times. So, but I it it I think this is the type of thinking you have to engage in because you can't just take everything in uh wholesale, but you also um but you you know what I mean? I'm losing my train of thought here, but please go ahead. >> On the on the Bledsoe thing, I think um I'll tell you where I've got to with that because I think you're right. Like what what makes Bledo so so tantalizing is not it's not that you listen to what he says and you're like this must be true.

is that you know from like three or four different sources all these senior people who were going to him like you know not just from US intelligence agencies multiple of them but even from the UK they had like mod people going >> that tells you that word got out and it was taken seriously something about what was going on was credible to these incredibly busy people um but on the actual testimony thing uh gosh I don't I don't know if I was reading valet or I listening to Diana Pulka, but I was just reminded of how many of these cases of of the lady or even other phenomenons speaking to people actually just is like apocalyptic BS. As in like we we look, don't get me wrong, the world is for all intents and purposes on a on a train track towards an apocalypse right now, for sure. But like the the warnings are always like urgent, pressing, you must do A, B, and C. But very little comes of them like you know it's it's always there's always these warnings. And I I um have decided now to reinterpret that as like I I'm not going to worry about 26 27 cuz in my mind it's either it's either another one of those warnings which we have precedent for or it's part of um a programming, you know, to climatize us to these kinds of things.

So yeah, but but I just wanted to to add that in about Bled. So that's where I'm at with it. Yeah, that one's really intriguing because at least from my knowledge and I'm I'm in the middle of UFO of God right now and I've listened to his uh several of his interviews. It's absolutely wild. But >> yeah, >> I think that 2026 2027 thing came from one of his experiences.

Um, so I I think he probably believes that something could happen and he according to him some things have happened that line up with his predictions. But I think for me it's it's really just like a matter of when it happens, it happens. I I'm not I'm not going to I'm not going to look forward or be afraid. I'm just simply going to take in all the information skeptically. um open-minded as the open-minded skeptic.

>> Yeah. >> But you mentioned something about Yeah. I think Chris Bledsoe, Diane Pulka is a really good doveetail into into the into the next topic because this connection that one can get in their mind by reading people like Diana Pulka, by reading people like Jacqu Valet, uh, and and I would argue by reading uh, James Latsky, Colin Keller, and watching the podcast that they that they do about OSAP with with the weaponized podcast, >> there seems to be this [snorts] this this these elements that follow the UFO phenomenon. For example, as I'm sure you know, OSAP program investigated all these UFO sightings and if they found that they just pushed a little bit further, if they interviewed people in the area, there was a whole a litany of different sightings of of uh shadow beings, ghost ghost kind of behavior. Um and and and in some cases like werewolf like wolfman type types of things which sounds nuts but um there's a lot of stories about that and so it just brings up the question again is is part of the reason why they're so reluctant to give you this because there is just too much to understand at once.

You can't just dump it all and be like, "Yeah, we're all alien hybrids and there's werewolves and there's fairies." Like, if if all of that is true, I I don't know if it is, but that would make sense. >> But I mean, what's your what's your opinion about the whole like u this whole u wider spectrum of phenomenon? I mean, you've looked probably at these older texts than I have. I've seen the books in your videos that you've stacked up next to you, and I'm interested in your point of view. Yeah, I mean I think this is for for us it's quite fun, you know, to to see all these connections. It's it's sort of exciting, but you're right that if you if some of this is true, like how do you explain this to people? I mean, it's just such an they call it like ontological shock.

>> Um yeah, and my my view has evolved from I don't know that I ever fel felt deeply about the extraterrestrial hypothesis. I think from day one I was reading valet when I really got into this. Um, but now I feel like I understand valet better. Uh, and it's interesting cuz like you know like let's let's think about his hypothesis about the control system. Uh, this idea that a lot of the phenomena that we encounter all follow a similar pattern through human history and that it kind of acclimatizes itself based on the viewer.

um that's that the the system which would do this must be huge complex and someone must have made it. Uh so in that in that scenario you might say that the bulk of the phenomena isn't extraterrestrial but it might be the case that the actual system was created by something from another planet or solar system. So you can blend the hypothesis in that way. Um, I certainly do think that it's probably a bit more complicated than just that. Um, >> you know, there's there's and I'm cautious about using ancient texts.

Like I really enjoy seeing the connections between them, but some of them it's easy to get over excited about them because, you know, like if you look at Genesis 6 for example, the Nephilim, the sons of God, really amazing. But when was that written? Well, Genesis was revised multiple times. You know, we there's a thing called the documentary hypothesis which postulates that there were four different people writing, rewriting, editing Genesis throughout its lifetime. So, you know, when how old is Genesis 6 and what's it referring to? We don't know. So, I'm cautious about that.

But, it is really interesting to see the comparative connections between all of these texts and stories. And there are consistencies. There is a consistent story about a cataclysm that happened usually connected to some weird genetic stuff that happened before and the interminglings of like something from heaven and something from earth came together to make something weird and that wasn't good. So there was a response and there's often groups and factions of gods which I think coming from a Judeo-Christian world. We lose that.

A lot of the way that Christianity is taught doesn't talk about angels and demons that much. It's all about your relationship to God. It's very like >> myopic, you know, whereas like most other mythologies, they view there is no like the god usually. It's just gods plural. There might be a lead a leader, but and that changes things because if you've got waring gods and there's groups of them, what are these things? Where do they come from? you know, it's it's a lot more rich in terms of how you can understand it.

So, I I I look at that I I look at that with great interest. I look at phenomena throughout history as um you know, legitimate and I think the control system hypothesis definitely seems very interesting, but I you know, I just don't know. I certainly think I certainly think the extraterrestrial hypothesis isn't sophisticated enough to deal with the data. No way. we're looking at something much more complex and I think we're certainly looking at a struggle and um I wonder something I think about a lot is whether you can overlay a struggle between non-human factions and whether that can be somewhat overlaid into our geopolitics today.

I personally think that's very compelling. don't have conclusive evidence of course >> but um you know when Dong came out one of the things he was told which I personally think makes sense is think about a proxy war right he would always talk about Syria he'd say you know the Syrians are there but why is the war happening well Russia's recruited one faction the the West has recruited another maybe Israel's also in there and uh they're all messing with each other and not necessarily telling the Syrians what's going on or why and I think it's a really useful way of thinking about this. So, sorry I'm like rambling. Uh, but no, you can tell my views constantly evolve every day. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, that's the thing is that's that's why I appreciate uh this these this type of line of investigation because you just look at what you deem to be credible information and consider it. And I think that's the best way to go instead of saying this is how it is. >> I mean almost I mean with almost anything anyone who's certain about something they're very likely to be proven wrong. And I think the other issue when we talk about mythology and passages in the Bible or passages in the Quran or is when you the further you go back into history first of all the more muddled the information becomes one for the reason you said is these things have been edited over and over and over again.

It's a it's an ancient game of telephone >> and therefore all of the things that can be interpreted are muddied as well. And the question that I often ask myself is like, you know, you can you can point back and say like, look, in all of these religions, there are Oh, wow. It just started raining really hard. There are all of these gods. Like almost every religion there are these beings that are um higher, sometimes divine, and you have like these, you know, demigods.

You can point to all of that and you can say, "Wow, that that really reflects how we think about UFOs, but that could be just a a reflection of how the human imagination imagines things, you know, it so it it's it's I have to agree with you. It's so careful, but I do think there are consistencies like you said, you know, you find in the Celtic religions like through Passport to Meonia, they have all these stories of like death candles. And if you look at the description of a death candle, it it's like straight out of the OSAP program or the ATIP program, whichever one is real, where it's like, yeah, there are these blue orbs and green orbs or even the the green fireball study, right? Like, so it's like, okay, I can see that. But [sighs] this is where we get into the really really murky stuff because you know you have the you have the levels of confirmation as we go through disclosure. It seems like it we've started out with okay we have some confirmation that there are objects that are nonhuman or at least we can't control.

The next thing from that would be some of those objects have occupants that are not human. The next thing from that would be those occupants sometimes take people. All right. I'm just going off of what the invisible college has has looked at versus what is being acknowledged. Then the next thing from that which you have focused on is that not only do they take people but they make new beings out of this, right? And and that's the specific thing that I find to be the most akin to ancient texts is there's always there's always some divine being or or otherwise, right? Satanic being that that is interbreeding with a human.

>> And I h I I it's I think you're right. It's easy to get excited about that. But I do find the pattern really interesting. And again, I want to say that that could just be a really interesting reflection of the human imagination because we [clears throat] we think that now with whatever this thing that brings into the question, oh, the airship in the 1800s, that was the the brink of what humans could understand. Now that we're obsessed with AI and technology, now we're seeing these craft.

But I I'm not certain about any of this stuff, you know, like but there's enough there to be curious, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. I I So, so the airship thing really befuddles me because like on the one hand it feels like the perfect argument for like look that's what the human imagination can handle at that point, but it's the the trajectory of how these things evolve isn't consistent. Like I'm pretty sure there was a saucer scene before and after that.

So that that that the airship mystery is really weird and I'm so I I feel like we have so much to learn about what was going on there. And um you know on the topic of of hybrids, yeah, I I um I do think this is interesting. I do because because um the the information coming out of the disclosure movement and inadvertently coming out of like some of these UFO hearings is kind of compelling. Like so many people are correlating paranormal experiences with the amount of nonhuman or or yeah non-human genetic material that you have. Like I I found so many different authors hinting at this.

And then there's that that testimony in the UAP hearing from Representative Boowbert and u you know I I um I'm aware that people don't trust Bobbert. That's absolutely fine. But she clearly had been told something which she felt was pressing enough that she should ask it during the UFO hearing about a story of a hidden program where they were trying to augment human DNA with nonhuman DNA. And um to bring it back to your thing about how you connect this to ancient texts, I've been reading a book called Exovvaticanana, which u this really dense book about >> I was going to ask you about that. >> Yeah.

Yeah. It's a really it's it's there they're there a couple of evangelical Christians trying to see how they can understand the UFO phenomenon, what's going on with the Catholic Church and the end times. And um you know, I'm no longer a Christian and so I don't necessarily agree with everything, but they do point out some really interesting stuff like they highlight this verse from the Gospel of Matthew and I remembered it as soon as they said it. I was like, "Oh, yeah." Where Jesus says, "In those last days, it'll be as in the times of Noah." You know, which is a really interesting thing to say to parallel the end times to the time of Noah. Now, you could say like, "Oh, well, that's that's just referencing the fact that when Noah was building the ark, he was warning everyone.

He was like, "Guys, huge disaster is coming. You know, we've got to take action." So, you might say that this is just Jesus saying the end times will be like that. But what they point out is that the other defining feature of that period of Noah was that the earth was full of these weird nonhuman hybrids that were causing absolute disaster everywhere. You know, um that was the other defining feature of that time. And it's like, well, what are we seeing now? And they point and this was this book was written in 2013.

They have just endless data showing the meddling that's going on with genetic material and human animal hybrids that are being experimented on, let alone the all these stories about human alien hybrids. So, I do think um I'm not saying that that means that the New Testament is true or whatever, but it's just interesting that you can parallel so much of this weird stuff going on today with these religious themes. And I that's maybe dangerous as well. Maybe it's not just exciting. Maybe that's a dangerous thing that we have to be careful doesn't get taken somewhere.

>> Yeah. There there become there comes a certain point because as someone who I like to think myself as a sane person um but after a certain amount of time, it requires like cognitive dissonance to ignore all of this stuff. And it's like each time I'm I'm I find this information that's so bizarre and so wacky, it's like a hit to my sanity. I'm like, if I talk about this, like am I complicit in the disinformation or is this real? But it's like so many other credible people talk about this stuff. >> [snorts] >> Um, and and here, okay, so here's I'd love to dovetail into a another topic here because your videos uh about confirmation versus disclosure raises up a really important question that has come up since the age of disclosure documentary has come out and that is that there seems to be two factions that are both for disclosure.

M >> one faction um is the let me just pull this up so I have all the right names. One faction I I'm going to call the mass amnesty group, right? That's the age of disclosure group. Uh Lou Alzando would be a poster boy of that where it's like here's the here's the what some of what we know. These are real. That's about it.

You know, we we have the right to keep our our dirty little secrets to ourselves, the ones that we find important for our national security. We can give you a a limited hangout, but the government doesn't have a right to keep just the base reality of this away from the public. I I would even I would say that uh you know Hal Putoff, Eric Davis, Ross Coltart, John Blit are part of this group. Um and and their sort of take on it which I think is a convincing argument is like how are we going to find this information if we say that we want to punish people who have done crimes, right? Um, you know, in South Africa they had the the reconciliation thing where it's like, "Okay, all you people who have done crimes, you have amnesty. Just tell us where the goods are." Uh, and you and and you're immune.

I get that. And then you have another faction which I'm going to call the for now the Justice League which is like Grush um UAP Gerb >> and more the public you know the public that's trying to understand this where it's like we hear stories that people in these programs have killed people to silence them. We've heard stories that they've misappropriated tax dollars like u that that they think the public doesn't deserve to know the whole truth and that if that party had their way, the Justice League I'll call them, then those people would go to jail, right? We would have justice for those crimes. I'm curious to know where do you stand if anywhere within those two parties and and why? >> Gosh. Yeah.

Um, that's a really useful delineation. Um, ah, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, like, like I think maybe the the first place to start is to actually ask what are what what benefits can secrecy have? Um, and people might be like, "What a terrible question to ask." But like it's it's actually really informative to consider that um, in a situation like we're in right now where you have massive geopolitical tensions and you know, let's let's just say in a incredibly black and white way, you've got good guys and bad guys. It's not like that at all, right? In fact, let's just say actually there are no good guys or bad guys.

There's just the threat of destruction. Uh secrecy serves a purpose which is like you know you don't want your adversaries who already may be motivated to cause you harm to get access to your cutting edge information. Right? So there is a a rational pragmatic reason why if I tell the public everything my adversaries get access to everything. Now to be super clear I don't think the um the Justice League as you so eloquently put it would would dispute that. And I I I think they're sensible enough to know like we're not going to release, you know, like advanced technology specifications, but like that helps us to realize that secrecy is not it's not always about hiding things from people.

It's sometimes very pragmatic. Um I do think we need to understand our place in the universe. So I I think whatever is involved in that there is no question that we need to understand that and it is our right to understand that. Um but between those two things if you go beyond like human beings and their existential need to understand who we are and what our mission is and what's really going on and then there's a space there between that and sensitive information which could cause harm. I don't know about that space.

I'm not going to pretend I do know. Um, the only thing I would say is the answer to the question changes dramatically based on the geopolitical stakes of what's going on. And people, including myself, like I've often thought to myself, well, maybe introducing this information will resolve the geopolitical issues, which in turn may allow us to introduce more information to the public because it'll be a safer environment. Maybe that's what they're trying to do. I I I don't know.

My one of the things I flip back and forth on, I wonder if you can resonate with this, is whether disclosure is being utilized to drive another conflict or whether it is the antidote to another conflict. And I can't believe because those two paths are so divergent and yet I every day I go back and forth between whether it might be one or the other. And um that's frustrating. I wish I understood, you know, what what the impact of disclosure might actually be because like you said, age of disclosure was constantly referencing China geopolitics. >> Yeah.

Yeah. And age of disclosure seem to be perpetrating this um set of what they purport as a set of facts that the other faction is upset with. Like the whole weaponized crew, the OAP crew are upset that Lu Alzando seems to keep saying like, you know, it's all about ATIP. It's all about ATIP. people like UAP Gerb said like that was the Blue World cover program for OAP and I I don't I don't know what the truth is.

I'm I'm not an insider, but the question I have about this is so I stand with you like and I think we all would want to know the base reality that we're not alone. And I I think the trouble that these two factions have with each other is like if part of that overarching truth itself can cause harm. Like you touched on this like let's just wildly speculate and say I'm kind of quoting like paraphrasing here that human alien hybrids do exist. That opens up a can of worms. >> Yeah.

Humans are selfish little [ __ ] and we uh we like to play games with genetics and race and >> like you said like if if one faction finds out that they have more DNA of a certain kind than the other then are we opening ourselves up to to another holocaust and you you you draw connections with Palestine and Israel and what's going on there? I mean it it you know it it these are the that that stuff really keeps me up awake at night. And then the other thing I would love to get your opinion on the the whole thesis behind John Blitch he's got a book coming out at some point um the abduction amnesty not where it's like the whole in his mind the whole lynch pin to the secrecy is as abductions. Mhm. >> So in his mind, the people in in charge of the legacy programs, the people in charge in general, when they recovered these crashed vehicles inside were found human human body parts as well as non-human body parts. >> And when you're looking at that as someone who's a soldier in the ' 40s, they did not talk about their trauma.

I mean, my grandfather was in the Korean War. He barely ever talked about what happened to him. >> It keep it locked down deep inside. If you were to see something as traumatic as that and you couldn't do anything about it, you would shut your mouth until you had some way to defend yourself against that threat. And so that brings up the question like, have they had success? Are they able to defend the people from AB abductees? I don't know.

I found that to be really interesting because it it provides an a a reasonable explanation for the secrecy, but I like how you took that even a step further and went to the hybrid thing because those if true the implications are are massive. I mean, >> yeah, I I I I almost >> I completely forgot about that when I was answering the last question about would you disclose, right? You're you're right that that was one of the things when I looked into the whole hybrid and by the way for for people who are listening right when I started looking into the hybrid thing I was like oh this is just another topic that's just full of little UFO stories you know it was like just on the list of things to look at one day and I couldn't believe how much it's like a missing jigsaw piece in the middle of eupfology like if you don't understand the hybrid issue and the connections it has you won't see how different things connect and you know you're So right when it comes to UFO secrecy, when you understand the implications of human alien hybrids, you start to realize why they might feel they could never talk about this. Because >> one of the implications is that the information coming out of the Pentagon right now from all these people is guess what? On the planet there's a spectrum. Some people have more non-human DNA and some people have less. And the implication of that might be that not only do some people have more or less, but different people have different kinds of non-human DNA.

Hey, this demographic over here, which we've wanted you to not like for a while, guess what? They also like bred with this bad non-human species, you know, thousands of years ago. And as a consequence, they have this weird relationship with them. This is part of the problem. And like this this we are one step away from that conversation with the data that's coming out. And the problem with it is how do you and I verify that, right? It's like um Salem witch trials all over again.

>> And the other issue is is just if there are human alien hybrids that have been intentionally bred so that they look just like us but have these other capabilities and they're all over society, which by the way is what Bob Bigalow believes. So that's literally what Bobo has said to many people. >> They're they're walking among us. They're all around us. >> What are the implications of of of disclosing? Let's say they don't even disclose that.

They disclose some basic stuff, but people start to figure this out. And then suddenly everyone's like, "Wait a second. Who who can I trust?" Like the destabilization could be huge. And then the religious thing kicks in, right? Because then religious groups are like, "Oh, just like in the days of Noah. Oh, look, it's this huge UFO deception." and they accelerate their agenda, which they're already accelerating, which by the way is not good.

I'm not I'm not saying every normal Christians. I'm talking about hardcore neoconservative, >> right? >> You know, kind of Zionist um folks who have an extremely focused agenda with the Middle East and fulfilling biblical prophecy. You know, UFO disclosure happens, they're just going to be like, "We just need to speed up what we're doing in order to help everyone." You know, that's literally what they think. So, it's kind of really dangerous, actually. Yeah.

Yeah. It's crazy. >> Yeah. I I mean, I can definitely sympathize with um whoever this control group is to kick the can down the road. I mean, I get it.

>> It's like, >> you know, it's like I think John Blitch brought this up as an analogy. It's like you you don't really want to tell your child that there's a pedophile living next door. You know what I mean? I thought that was such a good analogy. Like, dad, he's a nice guy. Like, he he said he would pay me $50 to shovel his driveway.

That's I'm quoting John Blush now. And it's like, no, don't go over there. Like, why? I [gasps] too young, you know? Like, but here's here's something I really want to brooach with you. this subject, the subject of the occupants of the UFOs or the authors of the abductions or whatever, looking like humans. >> Yeah, that opens up yet again another can of worms.

I mean, I'm reading Hair of the Alien right now. I'm looking into all these different things. And I mean you have the stories that um Richard Dolan has told about different figures. Uh I think one of them was um Lieutenant Colonel Alexander had this experience where they see these like beautiful like model looking blonde people with super blue eyes and they're like looking at them like they don't look quite right. M >> and then I don't know if this is true but they these stories say that in their head they hear someone's voice >> like there was a case that Richard Dolan told where these people were in church this woman was in church and a like super tall blonde supermodel couple were in the church and then all of a sudden this woman hears in her head like I think that woman over there is looking at us.

>> I know that story. >> And then they get up and leave. M >> and here's another thing I'd love to share with you cuz I'm I'm just nerding out like like a [ __ ] right now. But when I read the book um the fairy faith in Celtic countries that Jacqu Valet referenced, I didn't add this in the video just I I just didn't for whatever reason, but there is a bunch of stories of people who see fairies look like humans and for whatever reason they they they are on to these people that they're fairies. Like there's a story um actually no I did tell this story in the video.

There's this boatman from Siggo Ireland and he took these two men out towards this island and they disappeared on the way and then he saw them like months later or something and he's like I thought you drowned. Like what's going on? And the guy said do you see me? He goes yeah I can see you. He says well which eye can you see me with? And the guy's like, "Yeah, it's my it's my right eye." And the fairy man blows in the guy's eyes and now he can't see them. And that happens over and over like fairy dust. Um or like you know a woman who who goes into the fairy mound and is um you know being made to cook buckwheat pancakes for these fairies and she takes the fairy water and rubs it on her eyes and she can see the fairies and they go uh-uh that's not good and they blow fairy dust or they blow in her eye and then she's blind in the eye or something like that.

That's a strikingly similar type of story. But I don't even remember what my question was, but it's like, what do you think about what do you think about beings looking like us? Like what does that entail to you? >> Yeah. Oh god, this is such an interesting point. And I I I also glad like it seems like more people are talking about this this year. It's interesting the waves the waves of conversation.

Um, and by the way, fair play on reading. Was that was that Reverend Kirk's book about fairies? the one that you referenced. >> No, I will send it to you. It's called The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries by Wy Evans Wentz. I read the full thing, dude.

It is wild. Like >> awesome. >> It's wild. I mean, again, it's okay, I know you're in the middle of answering, but I'll make this quick is like I want to be very clear that this could be just confirmation bias because I went into that book from the viewpoint of valet looking at UFOs and I went through the book saying, "Does any of this sound like UFOs?" >> So, that's me projecting. But what I found objectively and in several other books people have pointed that out, but I'll I I'll send you the the title after the podcast.

>> Yeah. Cool. That's awesome. I just it's great. I just think it's also great people are reading the original source material as well cuz you know it's it's one thing trudging through a book by valet and really trying to pay attention.

It's another thing to then go and look at the sources. So that's awesome, man. Um in terms of like them looking like us, uh sounds cheesy, but maybe we look like them, you know? Maybe that's what's going on. I think Yeah, I think I think uh >> I don't know. I definitely if I had to put money on it, I would say that like like I we've been talking about we're human alien hybrids and so whatever was here before was taken and mixed with whatever they are.

And so maybe that's what's going on. Um >> yeah. So, so there's a there's an alien race that is kind of humanlooking like maybe the Nordic beings that people report so much and perhaps we are the consequence of them interbreeding with um or or doing some some experiments to create a race here on Earth. And that's that's where you get the interesting kind of uh the Samrian Anunnaki story about >> creating a race to work for the gods, right? I mean, who knows? Who knows? But that that's my take on that. And um I certainly I I think it's one of the most thrilling, terrifying data points you come across as you look into this topic is the realization that some of these beings look like us.

Um but they're clearly different to us. It's just spooky, you know? Like what a what a head [ __ ] Like that that means that it's not just something coming from somewhere else. somehow it's very likely connected to us cuz I don't think the the argument some people make is, you know, convergent evolution, the idea that a planet with similar conditions could lead to beings that look like us. And I think that's there's some truth to that, but for them to look so similar. Um, and then to be here, it's a bit weird.

>> Yeah. And it's a thing that opens up so many more questions than answers. M >> I mean you you bring up convergent evolution, but also the way that um like Peter Cury from Hair of the Alien and others um Antonio Vas Boas who saw a um you know, a blonde being >> you know is that is that a given fact that there's enough evidence in the literature to suggest that whatever these beings are are are able to mess with are psychic makeup. >> Is that a presentation? You know, is that a >> Oh, is that their >> Yeah. Like, is that their porn, you know, >> in the doctor's office? Um, is that their, you know, like there's all these questions.

um >> with the vsas thing um I'm not say I'm not going to say it's proven but there is testimony that that was um a military abduction um which actually if you if you there's a great video by Think Anomalous where he he talks through that case and it's really uh he his videos are always wonderful deep dives on individual cases and you look at the beings that are described and you can see like all of them are humanoid and like the beings that abducted him were like wearing these black suits boots with like weird masks. >> Yeah. >> Um and then he's taken on board to a craft where there's a woman and I I I think again this is Tom Dong's testimony, so take take what you take what you want, but he kind of hinted at this idea that they had to do they had to replicate these abductions using their own technology. For some reason, this had to be done. And he wouldn't he didn't explain why, but I wonder with the VS Bis one whether that was one of those first examples where they were trying to see if they could fool someone into believing they were abducted.

Maybe because they were trying to figure out whether what they were engaged with was actually a foreign country, you know, like is that is that what you may maybe they still had this belief in the 50s that could this be Russia or China and could we replicate one of these events and if we can what does that tell us about what it might be? Um, but that I'm I was just saying that because that it's just what's so interesting is >> the VS Boas case is on first reading a really spooky case and then actually very quickly you can see this this this could be a military abduction. Um, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I won't I won't take I won't I won't dismiss that.

>> Uh, I know Dr. John Blitch was adamant that he doesn't think that's a real thing. Like he was really angry at Steven Greer. Sorry. >> I was just saying really like that's that's that's interesting.

Okay. >> Oh, yeah. Like for him, like he got angry. Um like he was like really, you know, a head this big on a neck this thin, >> that's that's supposed to be humans. I'm not saying I I support that.

I just I find that interesting. >> You know, in his case, he was never at least, >> you know, and if I had such a traumatic experience, I', you know, I have a hard time talking about my condition that I went through. So, I get it. But in his case, so far as we know, it's it's been either the gray stereotypical gray kind of beings and a being that looked like a big bug, like a big praying mantis, which that uh blew my mind. That's why I wanted to talk to him.

Yeah, >> but in other I think in other cases where as humans like the Whitley Streber thing, he said that whoever put the you know what he claims is a implant in behind his ear were just humans and they were just like pinning him down in his house. Doesn't sound like something a non nonhuman. Um it brings up an interesting question. I I I got a lot of comments on one of my videos. It's like, yeah, this is all my lab.

And I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I I think a lot of I think a lot of what disinformation comes out is the people in the legacy program or whoever are the lackis of the legacy programs plural. Um they they give this information to people to calm them down and say this is we did that because they they don't want to admit that somebody else is doing it. And um this is okay.

I know I'm going all over the place, but I love your opinion about this because recently um Marco Rubio was in uh interviewed about the age of disclosure. >> Um and in the age of disclosure, he's like one of the most featured people guests in that documentary. He was dead serious it seemed like uh about you know credible people talking about crash retrieval programs and derivative technology and you know China China could be ahead of this and when he's in this interview with I think like Fox News he like laughs it off and he's like yeah I think you know they had to make a they had to make an interesting documentary but some of these things have you know personal you know firsthand experience now and uh yeah he he like he waved it off. And it makes me wonder, one, if all of that's fake and it is just, you know, sensationalism, and number two, if someone in the legacy program, one of the legacy programs, just showed him a footage of, you know, one of the derivative technologies that he hasn't seen and said, say, see, look, that's all ours. Just to get him to shut up.

>> You know, I wonder if there's some of that going on. Yeah, I I I did see that Rubio interview and um it was it it Rubio is interesting because he's such a huge character in terms of his position, his authority, right? For him, for someone that senior to have come out and said, "Yeah, it's it's real." And even for even if the snippets in the documentary were taken a little bit out of context, let's say they filmed and they really chose these juicy bits. Let's say that happened. Um, actually to have had Rubio not do what he did in that Fox News interview might have been problematic for the administration, you know, um, given that they don't seem to have any interest in disclosing anything right now. So, I think he would just have it's the stakes are way too high for him to say what he really thinks.

I think uh, and like like like you said, actually, JP, I think that's also legit. Um, let's say he was thinking of continuing the same thing from the documentary. There's probably quite a few people around him who are like, "No, [laughter] no, you that's not the plan." So, um, who knows what they might have shown him on on the My Labs thing. Firstly, I think it's just really important to say because I I have looked into this a little bit and I do think that this is a real my labs are a real thing. Um but uh I've never had an experience a traumatic experience involving non-human intelligence bit where I've been abducted.

Right? So I am a sideline armchair eupfologist. People might even laugh that I use that term because maybe I'm not even can't even call myself that. So for the likes of John Blitch or anyone else who's had an experience, I am in no way firstly saying that their experiences aren't real. I believe this this phenomenon is real, but I just think there's a lot of evidence that there's also other stuff going on. And um I I I think also one of the things I explored in my video about this was >> you don't [sighs and gasps] like the brain is already so good at deception, you know, the way the way like and paridol is such a good example of this.

We see faces where there aren't faces. I'll never forget, oh my gosh, I'll never forget when I was 19 years old and I was traveling in India and I decided to go for a hike through the jungle in at midnight to try and find a um place to watch the sunrise. This kind of it was a place called Sunrise Point. I was walking through this basically like forest wild area with no torch. >> Just sort of stumbling from place to place finding where I was going.

Such a crazy thing to do. I should never have done it. Man, did I think I was seeing faces everywhere. Yeah, I did. because, you know, I was on edge and there are these sort of like shapes and things.

The brain does that because the brain's always looking for problems. It's always looking for for threats. Um, the brain is designed to reinterpret what's going on around it in certain shapes and forms. Like MK Ultra didn't even start in the US. It was a it was a carry-on from Artichoke Bluebird, which was a carry-on from from Nazi experiments.

This is like a hundred years old. And I I think there is zero doubt that they've figured out ways to tap into that function of the brain which deceives even us without anyone having to do anything. >> So you don't need to build an anti-gravity craft. You don't need I'm not saying you don't need to, but my speculation is you don't need that. You don't need all the equipment.

Actually, you can you can start by just using low frequency and different types of waves with the brain to trigger different states. Whether that's putting someone to sleep, making them see things, waking them up, removing memories, it seems from various bits of literature that just using waves is a good way to start triggering those things. Then you introduce the the likelihood that we do have anti-gravity craft and we have sophisticated prosthetics and all of this and just costumes and outfits and all of this. I I certainly think they'll have tried it. I wonder whether they might have succeeded, you know.

Um, I think it's interesting and it's I I think we've got to keep it on the table. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that's a responsible way to do that, especially if you think about Sirhan Sirhan and if what he says is true, the guy who who who shot RFK. >> Yeah.

Um, you know, he said, >> yeah, >> you know, he he he basically like the way he describes it, and I have to caveat this, but I have it's been a while since I've watched him, but every time he was interviewed, he was like, you know, I was at this thing and and I I just found myself with the gun and I like he he describes it. I don't want to overly butcher what he said because he's a human being um no matter what he did, but the way he describes it is as if he was compelled to do it by another force. And there's um >> well, you're you're from the UK. Are you familiar with the magician Darren Brown? >> Yeah, he's amazing. >> He's got he's got this episode.

I remember watching this as a kid where he was like had this theory like you know a a proposal. Can we get a person to do whatever we want including killing somebody with hypnosis with uh you know brainwashing >> and he he like took s like took a sample of people and it was the whole it was like I think it was several episodes where he like was slowly trying to figure out which one would be the right person to do this with. He found someone that was very easily hypnotized, very easily influenced. And long story short, they had this whole thing staged where Steven Fry was doing a talk in a theater. And this guy, they got him to be hypnotized, pick up a gun, and point it somewhere and shoot it.

It was a fake gun obviously, but you see the guy, he's in the he's in the audience and in the middle of the show, there's some sort of like they they like developed a trigger for this hypnosis to begin. The trigger is set off. This guy stands up in the audience with a blank expression on his face, grabs a gun, points it at Steven Fry, and clicks. Puts it down, sits back down. And it's like if that's authentic, if if you can do that with a human, yeah, it brings up questions.

Can you take that a step further? Can you can you simulate an abduction? And again, I want to be careful because this is another thing John Blitch was really upset about cuz there there is people from uh research from serious people that said they could simulate an abduction experience. And his whole thing is like that is that is completely immoral to simulate a horrific traumatic experience. He's like that's akin to you simulating rape to study rape. >> Yeah. And I mean it doesn't discount that people have tried to do it, but it definitely does say that it's wrong.

Um, but you touched on something and I know you have to go soon, so we can make this the last sort of topic here, but you we're kind of getting onto the border of screen memories. You know, this the these abductees, contact experiencers, if you will. A lot of them report like memories that oh a barn owl was outside my window at night or a deer with big black eyes. Uh uh there was one I I believe it's in Passport to the cosmos where this person it was like they had a dream a dream between reality dream state thing where this owl was coming down from the sky and it was this beautiful thing and it it turned into a Celtic god that this person recognized and it slowly realized that this wasn't really what was going on. And then this this god turned into an alien and and by that time this person was being messed with, operated on, and they felt betrayed.

Um, and I I'd love to know one, what your opinion on Screen Memories is, and two, if you've seen the new trailer for The Disclosure Day, Steven Spielberg's new new film, because there's there's shots interplaced of a little girl in her bedroom, and there's a deer who comes next to her bed with a little red cardinal on the antler. And then the next shot is the the girl, the deer, and the cardinal walking on a snowy road to a big fairy tale house with big lights on in it. And it's like, is that a like is that a screen memory for the main character? Like, what do you think about that stuff, man? I mean, it's just wild. >> Gosh. Um, so I've not deep dived into the topic of screen memories, but I I I do um, you know, I do think that the majority of the phenomenon is deceptive.

And so therefore, it's trying to hide what it is and what its intentions are. I think is if you if you accept the data, there's so much of it, then eventually you have to uh um realize it seems to be trying to get us to look over here. So we don't look over here. It's like we're extraterrestrials. We're trying to help you.

Blah blah blah would be the the normal screen memory. Or maybe it's um I'm this divine being and we're coming to help you with this or whatever. Whereas actually in reality the total cultural impact of the phenomenon maybe is what's purposefully being being driven. Maybe it's designed to accentuate the religious tensions so that the planet doesn't unify or something. You know these are all speculations but >> um in that sense I think >> a screen or multiple screens preventing us from understanding the real phenomena potentially is is there that would be a part of that whole mechanism on the Spielberg film.

Um I did see the trailer and I must confess having listened to you speak about it I didn't look as closely as you did. I was I I was more honestly I was more surprised because of the buildup and everyone getting in UFO world everyone got so excited about it and then I watched the trailer and I thought I don't know I was just like is this really going to be the breakthrough film? >> I I for some reason I got it in my head that it was going to be a documentary. >> Um >> yeah. Yeah. So I I was quite excited about that.

I was like Spielberg's making a documentary or some sort of art project around this. Um but for me I I um was a bit like oh it's a film and then I was very interested that the lady was speaking she had some sort of like speech thing going on where nonhuman intelligence was communicating through her. >> So I'm interested >> speaking soda can. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It was kind of funky. Um, but yeah, I I think my my general feeling at the moment has been following the age of disclosure, following John Bilch and Jake Barber coming out, following all of these things that we keep feeling are going to break through. I'm a little bit jaded about the next big thing and about UFO World always getting excited. Not not that you are, by the way, but like that that was my feeling as I watched it.

I was a bit like, >> I bet I bet everyone's going to be saying this will be the thing. Um, which is me being very pessimistic. Um, but but tell me tell me about this screen memory thing and and what you were seeing there. >> Sure. Well, I mean, first of all, I think you're probably more correct.

I I think I don't think we're going to actually get disclosure from the movie. I think he's just calling it disclosure day. And the daily UFO YouTube channels who I watch, >> Yeah. >> they they got to make their content and they're like, "This is what we have. This is the tweet.

This is the X post." [laughter] you know, from the insider and they got to make their like I get it, but just like with everything else we've talked about, you have to put these safeguards into place. So, I agree. But I mean, the screen memory I've I had the privilege of speaking with um I don't actually remember what Kathleen Martin said, who is um Betty and Barney, Betty Betty Hills niece, but I also spoke with Ivonne Smith who's a a hypnotherapist and works with abductions. And that is a common thing. thing.

I mean, if you read John Max's books as well, it's a common thing. Um, whether it's a deer with big black eyes, whether it's a a mouse, a barn owl, some sort of animal. And, um, John Mack was sort of theorizing like, does this have to do more with the human imagination? Uh, you know, a spirit animal type of thing cuz shamans who have abduction experiences describe a similar sort of thing. um or is it on behalf of the of the perpetrator of the abductions to speak in a language we understand? >> I don't know. But it brings up a really interesting question like you know on the one hand like I did a video about Black Elk the Lakota holy man and he never explicitly said that he had a visit from the star people.

one of his extended family members did, Wallace Black Elk, which is overtly uh like a UFO experience, but he had experiences that fit with his own mythology. >> He had he had uh he had this cloud come down and grabb his astral body and and float him up into the sky where he met the six grandfathers. And the six grandfathers gave him these tools, these spiritual tools, whether it's a, you know, a pipe, uh, a spear, a bow and arrow, and these were tools, and they were trying to tell him the things that were going to happen to the Lakota nation, which did happen, great great tragedies, wounded knee. Um, and so, you know, if if that is an authentic experience, you know, I'm not saying it's a UFO experience, but it if it's authentic, it's divine beings giving a message to humans. >> Um, you know, the question is is are is there a screen memory going on there? I don't know.

I find it really interesting that John Blitch had an experience right before his abduction. He has he has Lakota in his DNA, by the way, that he looked up with his neighbor and saw a big storm cloud directly over his house, but no other storm clouds around him. >> So, >> and that was right before his abduction. So, I'm like, huh? >> Yeah. I mean, I don't know.

But trying to answer your question about the screen memory, at the very least, the definition seems to be a memory like a a a befuddling of the memory that helps protect the person from a more distressing truth. >> So like, you know, >> someone who's sexually abused at a very young age, they might have they might their brain might have warped it just to help them not confront how traumatic that was. >> Yeah, I see. >> I don't know. But hey man, uh do you want to say anything anything about that before my last little thing? >> No, I just it just it just uh made me think about you know there's some people theorize that UFO abductions themselves are screen memories sort of of like revisiting the pain of coming out of, you know, during the birth process and being surrounded by these doctors and these equipment on this room.

like your very first primal memory where you're kind of going from the safety of the womb into this terrifying new world >> that the UFO phenomena could in some way be a sort of a projection a reexperience of this. And I think, you know, it's very interesting. I'm not sure you can actually I'm not sure it works. I haven't thought thought it through, but I was just thinking about that as you were as you were saying that these are all things we have to consider. And you know what's what's kind of crazy is like at some point the rug is going to be pulled out from all of us and the different things that we're believing.

Like who knows like maybe maybe we're going to realize like yeah screen memories are controlling everything we think about the phenomenon you know. Uh >> yeah it's kind of crazy the layers of deception. Yeah. >> Yeah man. Well okay so I want to end with a couple things.

The first one is what books are you reading right now? What books would you recommend people who want to get into this? Let's just start with that and then I'll and then we'll go to the last thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So, um right now it's uh I mean I I I I constantly dig into the same books, the sort of reference books, whatever I'm looking into. But I mean I'm working on two videos at the moment. One is about um Dr. Ronald Penduli and the the battle to prevent UFO disclosure. And so as part of that um I'm really just looking at like 40 different documents and places and all all of that.

So reading wise like that that's that takes up a lot of time. Um the other piece I'm working on is about the Collins elite um and about the this kind of conviction that there is an end time scenario playing out that the biblical sort of prophecies are coming true how this might connect to what's going on in the Middle East and the UFO phenomenon. And so as part of that it's revisiting Nick Redund's brilliant book on the Collins elite. Like I'm reading it for the third time. But when you're going to make a video, you kind of have to really figure out which bits you want to read out.

Exo Vaticanana, which I mentioned. Um, I read a book on angels recently. I don't know if I've got it here. Um, and then um also a lot of articles online about um spiritual warfare in the Middle East. So, you know, like um former Iranian I don't know if you call him the prime minister or the president and his beliefs about this hidden NHI that he was in contact with whilst he was running the country.

There's all these stories about Israel dropping talismen like these symbols whilst they were bombing [clears throat] Iran. Um, so I'm just really trying to find examples of of that. And then also been looking into any content related to the uh the Temple Mount. So like, >> oh yeah, >> this location that seems so important. >> Um, and there's this thing called the Well of Souls.

I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's this postulated cavity beneath. >> What might that mean? Um, what might it mean for for all of this ancient Jewish tradition about this place of like primordial energy beneath the temple ground? So, I'm, you know, as always, I I I'm not finishing any books. I'm just splicing across them all the time. So, [laughter] >> what's your angel book that you're reading? I'm curious. >> It's actually uh it's just called a short introduction to angels.

And um it was just a great reminder of what the Bible teaches about angels in a really nice light format because, you know, I I'm always like I'm always really complimented by people who see me as reading a lot. The truth is I'm terrible at reading. I I'm always distracted and I will read the shortest books possible or just a chapter of a book cuz I >> it's really hard. So like a short introduction to angels >> part of me was like I should really buy the big meaty one. It's like no Jason you're never going to finish it.

Just read the small one. >> Go on. >> Yeah. >> Oh yeah. Are those books like super intellectual people where the chapters are like a book each? Like the Celtic fairy book? It was like it was like a book each chapter.

I'm like, "Bro, I can't. My ADD brain can't do that." >> But hey, man, Jason, it has been an absolute pleasure. Um, I I I congratulate you on your success and your channel, and I hope it only continues to grow. I think you're asking the right questions. You know, unlike a lot of people out there, um, you're actually trying to make some sort of some sort of thesis or conclusion with the evidence that we have instead of just reporting it.

I think I think that's a step further. It's a step up. Um, and so I I really appreciate you, man. Where can people find you if they're if they're interested? >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm on uh Well, I'm on YouTube, Jason Samosa.

Um, if you search that now, it actually comes up with my stuff. Previously, you would get weird videos about Jason Mimoa in the shape of a samosa. That that age seems to have passed. So, I think you can just search >> graduated from the Mimoa. >> We we have now moved on.

But but if you if you're still seeing weird Jason Mimoa hybrids, um just add [laughter] UFO onto the end and you'll you'll find me. And I'm also on X as well. Um it's just X is useful to share stuff. And I have on Patreon some of my stuff is free. Like right now there's a free extra video on there on Patreon.

So if you're if you need a an extra fix, if you go through all the videos, there's some stuff there. And um yeah, but easiest to contact is on X if you want to shoot a question over or whatever. Hell yeah, man. Well, thank you so much, Jason. I appreciate it.

>> Yeah. Cool. JP, it's been awesome. Good luck with uh you know, launching all of this and your your your new uh podcast and everything. And uh yeah, looking forward to uh to speaking again sometime.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Anytime, man.