UFO/UAP Top Secret Projects, AAWSAP, AATIP & More

Transcript

well i appreciate your interest in the fact that you've come here so i'm very anxious to share what i have to share and as you'll see from my uh message up here back story and forward story there is a back story about the government's involvement in the ufo or we now call it uap unidentified aerial phenomena program but there's also a forward story where some of us who have been part of that program have banded together to try to get more data out for the public to have a conversation about so i'm going to cover both aspects let me begin with a back story anyone who follows the ufo area knows that you know starting in 1947 we supposedly had the roswell crash and whatever and there are a lot of uh people calling the air force and saying i've seen something in the sky and so on and the public pressure was so great that project sign was set up ran for 47.48 to gather data from generally the public about what they were reporting to seeing and that transmogrified into project grudge and finally in the project blue book project blue book course was the longest running organization ran for 17 years but in 1969 uh condon at the university of colorado uh was asked to set up a program to investigate whether there's anything that we should be taking seriously in what the blue book people had found and they came to the conclusion no there's nothing here don't worry about it nothing worth following up on and so basically public knowledge about any ufo program ended there and so if between 1969 and roughly now if you sent something into the air force public affairs office and said well what are you learning about ufos what's going on they say oh no we shut that program down in 1969 truth of matter however is that the very memo that shut down the program written by general bolender had down in the fine print of the memo reports of ufos which could affect national security will continue to be handled through the standard air force procedures so the truth of the matter is the programs continue and are continuing today this has been very much under the covers separate us not not no media associated with this and so on until [Music] december 16 2017 when suddenly there was a front page story on the new york times talking about a program that had been going on called advanced aerospace threat identification program we call it atip and this was absolutely amazing revelation they had good sources i was part of the program i thought it would never see the light of day and suddenly there i am even on the new york times and of course with that kind of coverage mainstream press washington post union so on picked up the story and suddenly this big barrage of media publicity the thing to realize is that this was a game changer the reason was that the kind of people who are now coming forward which i've listed here ex-senate majority leader harry reid who actually founded the program top-rated f-18 pilots who are encountering what we call advanced aerospace vehicles significant department defense and intelligence community officials began to come forward because of what had been revealed to answer questions and so suddenly this whole area via the media moved from being just the tin foil hat crowd for news on a friday afternoon when you don't have anything to write about to suddenly oh my god you know there's something really going on the actual name of the program was advanced aerospace weapons systems application program asap but it went by advanced aerospace threat identification program atip so e-tip was a nickname and later on the actual name of the program and how did this get started this program began in june of 2008 the defense intelligence agency was concerned about threat from advanced aerospace vehicles crafts and drones of of unknown origin congressional budget was approved to address the issue senate majority leader harry reid and the senator anyway from hawaii and senator stevens from alaska were the people who were basically in charge of black budget programs so this was all done behind the scenes the rest of congress didn't know the program was being set up so that that's how that's how it got started and once the news came out in the new york times you might think that while these heavy hitters are going to kind of run away and walk it back and whatever not at all this statement by reid i think summarizes the view of the major political players that were involved that is we don't know the answers but we have plenty of evidence to support the questions this is about science and national security if america doesn't take the lead in answering these questions others will well the atip program had two concerns two areas of threat that they were concerned about the obvious one of course what are these things craft flying over continental united states and we don't know what they are possibly off world possibly some other country it's got advanced technology what is this all about now you might think that that would be the major threat it turns out that wasn't the major threat they were concerned about the major third they're concerned about is future threat what happens if a potential terrestrial adversary say the russians the chinese or whatever achieve some significant breakthrough and develop game-changing disruptive technologies based on their evaluations of the phenomena or maybe from sensor data or from crash retrieved materials that's what they're really worried about of course that's what the intelligence community and defense establishment have to worry about that's their remit and well they should be concerned this is a paper or actually it's a giant report about that thick that we were able to get out of the out of the soviet union this is all the way back as early as 1991. they have had a massive program in the black just like we did trying to figure out what this is all about and this this report has tons of units and academic institutes and research institutes that are involved in assessing various aspects so this this was a big deal and of course the dia and others in the intelligence community understood that that was going on and so to give an example which probably most of you have seen because it's been in the news a lot lately the investigations of the nimitz carrier group operating off of san diego and several occasions these advanced aerospace vehicles would descend rapidly from sixty thousand feet fifty feet above the water hover and then take off i mean absolutely astounding kinds of things in one of these times a couple of f-18s were launched from princeton uss princeton and vectored by overhead awarks planes to investigate and see what was this can you get eyes on and so in fact they got to where they were targeted to see if they could see something and sure enough one of the f-18 pilots actually got a good view the object was hovering kind of over the water and he went right down to check it out and and suddenly it took off to the horizon in a couple of seconds i mean he was absolutely amazed what he described was that there was an elongated craft so like a tic tac you know the kind of candy you you can eat solid white smooth no edges about 46 feet in length about the size of his f-18 uniformly colored no appendages sticking out like wings or tails or whatever they were stealthy the fda 18 radars couldn't obtain lock but forward-looking infrared radar could track while it was stationary at lower speeds forward-looking infrared radar just picks up the heat signature and so even though there's no radar lock or whatever i mean it did have a temperature above that or the surrounding volume of space and so it would stand out on the floor radar and appeared to demonstrate advanced acceleration aerodynamic propulsion capability zipping around navy commander dave fravor has been on the news and you can find interviews of him several in fact on the internet he was the first pilot to actually get there and see what was there to see and of course he had a wingman who also saw it and he had another plane he was watching from above and there was this event occurring he did not have a fleur radar on his particular f-18 so when they landed back at the carrier he told the next flight of people going out you know i saw this thing see if you can get out there and get a picture because you've got your floor radars uh operational and so on the second flight out in fact they did capture this picture i have to realize this is on infrared video seeing a heat signature now if this was some kind of propulsion of anything we can imagine like hot gases coming out the back or whatever you would see that kind of a plume and so the big mystery here was you just had the craft and it was hovering and it's not obvious what his propulsion system was you see no evidence of it so when they came back from their flight and they showed dave favor this picture he said yeah well that's that's basically what it looked like when i saw it up relatively close range now you might think 2004 i mean why are you talking about things that happened a long time ago it didn't stop over the decades lots of views of this happening with the f-18 pilots more recent times 2015 2016 you've got the carrier group uss roosevelt in this case operating off the east coast the united states and they see the same things actually interfering with their missions there have been cases where a couple of f-18s are going along something disappears or zips through it disappears right between them and so it actually became an inner safety issue and that's part of what led to some some additional publicity i guess you would say [Music] oh is this is displayed on the web and in various uh tv shows so i'm sure you can hunt it down and and learn about it so we had flair displays recorded detailed debriefs of the pilots for example commander dave fravor he had like 12 planes under his group 300 people reporting to him he was a top commander of this air force group the key assessments were an advanced aerospace vehicle no known air vehicle and inventory of u.s or foreign nation low observable characteristics stealthy advanced performance [Music] advanced propulsion capability to remain stationary transition to horizontal vertical velocities far greater than any known aerial vehicle and with no little signature so that's what the dia had to contend with so how are we going to figure out what's going on so for this particular program the latest of many programs they put out a broad area announcement in 2008 and said we want 12 potential threat areas to be evaluated lift propulsion control human effects human interface armament whatever and so a request for proposal went out to the defense industry in the intelligence community and dia chose bigelow aerospace as a contractor to address the potential threat now some critics out there said now wait a minute harry reid was a senator from nevada and bob bigelow as an aerospace person was located in nevada wasn't this just some kind of sweetheart deal the answer is no i mean bigelow had already had a large program that he had put his own money into for years in fact john and i were a part of being on his science advisory board and so it was actually the dia chose bigelow they felt he would be the person who had the right go get him attitude and of course had the right kind of technical environment behind him so he set up a division of bigelow aerospace called bigelow aerospace advanced space studies we call it bass and of course he's supposed to do all the things you'd expect someone to do if you set up a program like this where i came into the picture is that bass contacted me contacted my organization and asked me to collaborate as a subcontractor since with john we had been on this advisory science advisory board we had many years of collaborating i've been a science advisor to bigelow aerospace so it'd be natural that he might think of choosing me the particular area that i took responsibility for is based on this it was a critical issue as you can well imagine in these deep black programs it's difficult for contractors to obtain expert opinion on critical technologies because there's such high level security and there's compartmentalization we call it stove piping so you've got people at this desk people right next door at that desk and they can't talk to each other and so i mean this this really held back progress so i was given the remit to try to break through this kind of issue and so i was contracted to commission papers from experts around the globe and since we didn't want to be in the position of going out and say hey we're trying to figure out this ufo thing uh you know can you help us out here i mean the publicity associated with that in our black program when it would have been a disaster so instead i just simply went out to people and said i'm doing a survey where were your particular application or your particular interest in your particular technologies be in the year 2050 as far as aerospace industry went and so if i wanted to know well you know what do we know about invisibility cloaking i could go to the super expert even if he's over in europe someplace not revealing anything and say well can you write us a white paper on where's this invisibility cloaking technology going or whatever so over two year period i let out 38 contracts i'm going to show you the 38 papers so you can judge for yourself how technically oriented this program was as you can see i mean some critics out there said oh well that program was just looking at advanced aerospace vehicles uh i mean in the sense of what are the russians going to do in a few years or whatever but of course if you if you read between the lines and you see you're looking at warp drive traversable wormholes and stargates i mean we're not looking for what the chinese are going to make next year this program was absolutely directed toward trying to address and solve to the best of our ability quote the ufo program problem another set of papers we're into looking at the forefront areas of everything in case you have any any resonance with people who say well no this is just looking at advanced aircraft production well then how do you explain that we had a whole program on evaluating the statistical drake equation which is an estimate of how many intelligent civilizations are there capable of technological advance in our galaxy this is definitely a ufo program a uap program as we call it these papers were collected together and put out as a series of defense intelligence reference documents they were put up on a special server called j wicks as you see here they were unclassified but for official use only so contractors and defense officials intelligence community officials they could go all go in and read these papers now the dia often does these durds as we call them defense intelligence reference documents typically a series of papers will go up for let's say a few couple months or three or four months and then they're taken down replaced with something else our 38 papers turned out to be the hit bonanza years went by and they were still on there being looked at every day practically so this is really quite a hit series because they're very advanced technical detailed papers on all kinds of things that would be of interest in the community so let me give you a couple examples we have one here called metamaterials for aerospace use i can talk about an open source sample i can't talk about others and many of you have probably if you've seen various tv programs and interviews and so on you'll know about this there was a sample that was sent anonymously by a military source he claimed that his grandfather had been involved in a crash retrieval operation and had gotten some material from it and so he didn't want to identify himself but he sent it forward for analysis that's what it looked like is a multi-layered piece of material and linda howe was the one who got it and began shopping it around and trying to get analysis of it she's she's really a stalwart person to try to find out about this it had layers of bismuth the size of that is less than a human hair those are the black areas you can see through here and then they're separated by layers of magnesium which is the lighter areas and so that's what the sample actually looked like been a lot of controversy a lot of discussion about this because after all here you see something that does look like it was in a crash the thin lines with the bismuth lines so what do we really know about the chain of custody is non-existence providence is questionable so for all we know it could be a hoax it could be a fraud it could be some slag from a foundry floor some factory but nonetheless it was unusual sample so we decided okay well then then we should at least take a look at it have an open mind early on linda howe the researcher who who had this sample given to her by art bell went around to many institutions and groups to try to get some analysis first of all a survey of academic publications interviews with people from organizations involved in special materials and so on even went to archives of the national labs like los alamos or wherever and nobody had any data on this kind of construction having been made and then there was someone else she went to and they tried to see could they ba could they just duplicate the material in fact they had trouble bonding the magnesium and bismuth layers together so it wasn't clear exactly how you would make it and then finally in talking to materials experts you say well let's just say somebody could make this what would you use it for and all the material scientists said i don't have a clue i can't even imagine the reason for constructing something like this however what happens is a couple decades go by or more and suddenly we have our whole science of so-called metamaterials has been coming into the fore and developing kinds of stuff and lo and behold a paper gets published which says you know if you had a bismuth layer of just this size that happened to match what we had and it was separated by magnesium layers of about the size that we see this would have a very special property this came out of meta material research not directly associated with the material so it turns out this would make a terahertz wave guide okay what are what's terahertz well you you hear about megahertz and gigahertz and the microwave spectrum and then you hear about infrared radiation well terahertz sort of lies in that no man's land as far as technology development goes above microwaves above gigahertz but less than the wavelength of infrared heat so it turns out that ordinarily when you have a wave guide and you want to send a signal from one place to another you know you have a pipe for example and the pipe generally has to be about the size of the wavelength a half a wavelength for example well in this case there's a frequency band around five terahertz and the wavelength is a certain size but turns out in this special kind of material those thin bismuth layers would transmit those signals at 1 20th the size of the wavelength and so that means you now have sub wavelength waveguide effects so what that means is if you want to transmit a lot of data at terahertz frequencies and usually can imagine a stack of wave guys to do it with now suddenly you've got this whole thing micro sized down and you can carry out your task and it's only because of metamaterials being developed now there are no metamaterials being developed back in the days when the sample was found that's for sure but anyway so there's a possibility this has an important effect so actually what we see here then and this happens in in many cases you get a material sample unusual characteristics and you want to evaluate it the method manufacturer is difficult to assess and reproduce as it was here purpose of function not readily apparent but then our own science advances on over the decades and finally we get to a place where we can imagine the possible purpose of function comes to life which is what was the case here we still have this in the pipeline to do a lot of experiments on that haven't been done yet because we haven't raised the funding for it but there's more to be done let me pick another one space-time metric engineering this is a mouthful this happens to be the area that i personally was the leader on the question is can you account for what we're seeing based on known physics and of course all the pilots get back and say oh my god i can't believe these things and they're violating the laws of physics they're standing still they're taking off instantly like they don't have any inertial mass there's this you know we don't know how that could even be possible in principle well that's fine for the pundits and the media and even the pilots to say but the truth of the matter is we can account for them we can account for them by taking an engineering approach to general relativity einstein's theory of general relativity so what does that mean well all of our electronic devices you know this device i'm holding your cell phones the lights whatever you want to say are all using equations using electromagnetism electromagnetism has its foundational equations and everything that we have is really built on the what the equations predict and that that's a completely mined area of science and technology when it comes to general relativity einstein's theory of general relativity that's mostly been in the purview of astrophysicists who are trying to figure out what happens when black holes emerge or whatever no one ever thought of taking the equations of general relativity just like we have the equations for electromagnetism maxwell's equation and say well suppose we could engineer those equations suppose we could build something based on those equations this is textbook physics we're talking about not not fringe physics so one of my jobs was then to make a list of all the weird anomalies uh reported about these objects actually from my standpoint the weirder the better because if somebody is making up something and that's fraudulent in the hoax they're going to try to say something that's uh you know kind of could sell makes sense when somebody comes up and says well you know i was outside the craft and it was only that big but when i got inside it was a football field in size i mean you know so we list all the weird aspects that have been reported and list all what would be the weird things you would find if you could engineer general relativity equations and they matched up hand and glove i'll give you some examples for example warp drive how about zipping across the universe and you always hear we you can't do that it's you know you can't beat the speed of light and so on well that whole thing about not beating the speed of light has to do with einstein's special theory relativity but it turns out that in general theory of relativity there's a way to do that here's a very famous astrophysicist by the name of alcubierre he was a star trek fan and so he said you know i wonder if i could find solutions in general relativity that would let me make warp drive and i have a lot of constraints on that you know i want to leave it breakfast time have breakfast time at home go to alpha centauri for lunch come back and have dinner with my family and i want them still to be the same age i am and on the trip i don't want to be turned into sauce on the back of the spaceship with giant accelerations in fact i'd like to just be feel like normal kind of things and so he worked through that solution and developed what's now called the lqr warp drive he published this in an absolutely tier one physics journal that deals with general relativity and so it was very sort of famous picture of what his warp drive solution look like where you sort of depress space-time metric as we call it in front of the ship and build it up behind and and let space-time metric push you through and so on so there's a whole cottage industry of general relativity theorists who are working on various forms of warp drive and so on what about the velocity of light constraint again in general relativity you can solve the equation and come up with something called for example a wormhole and again i'm talking about fringe physics this is a textbook material matt visser is one of the great general relativity theorists and if there are any engineers in the crowd for the engineers in the crowd i would point out that well what do you mean by velocity of light velocity of light is given by a little equation here one over the square root of the magnetic permeability and the dielectric permittivity of the vacuum so if you want to go fast the speed of light you just simply arrange to reduce the value of those constants and now the effective speed of light in your engineered region is much higher and so even though you're zipping through a fastened speed of light as far as anyone on the ground is concerned actually within your engineered space you're not actually beating the speed of light but it works in principle so the take-home message here is reduced time interstellar travel either by e.t or ourselves in the future is not as naive consideration might hold fundamentally constrained by physical principles and it can be addressed the exotic physics in engineering terms metric engineering so you might well ask okay well then why aren't we zipping around the universe and well unfortunately when you solve the equation you say oh yeah all these things could be done what would be the engineering required to do it well in our solution so far it's oh my gosh we have to have so much energy density compactified in such a small volume there's no way we can get here get there with our present engineering smarts so it's going to be far future for us unless we happen to find some kind of back door that lets us through so in fact that was one of the papers fact is the paper that i published so it was one of the defense intelligence reference documents one of the 38 that went up on the special website but by the way as i mentioned we didn't tell these authors that we got 38 papers generated by that this was some kind of spooky ufo program i always say you can even publish your work in the open literature if you want of course they didn't know it had anything to do with ufos so in fact i published my paper advanced space propulsion based on vacuum space time metric engineering and in a physics journal now we kept the list of these titles and the authors still secret and then finally somebody through a freedom information act request got a letter from john mccain which listed all of the papers and the authors and their affiliations i thought oh my gosh that means my phone is going to ring off the hook saying what he didn't tell me this was a ufo program but actually i haven't had any pushbacks so lucky so far the papers generally have not been have not been released by the department of defense and the intelligence community and only a few have begun to publish some of the work as i did here so anyway is there anything you can learn from this that can help us in terms of evaluating observations in the world associated with unidentified aerial phenomena i'll just give you one example and i have about a thousand i could give but that would take a week or so in this room most of the electromagnetic energy you can't see why because it's in the infrared in the form of heat and there's a very narrow band in the electromagnetic spectrum that you can see and that's what we call you know the visible spectrum and then there are higher frequencies into the ultraviolet and beyond that we that we don't see now it turns out that one of the side effects of engineering space time metric to get this kind of flight performance is that it we call it blue shifts the frequencies all the frequencies that are involved get moved to a higher frequency that's just built into what the equations say when you generate these anomalous effects so what that means then and has significance for us is the infrared we don't ordinarily see gets blue shifted up into the visible so when we hear that these craft are so bright and so luminous when you see them it's not not a surprise and then what was in the visible spectrum gets shifted up into let's say the ultraviolet and so if you get too close to one of these things that are powered up you'll get a sunburn often reported by people who've claimed to have gotten close to a craft and if you get uh too close you might actually pick up some of the blue shifted radiation from the visible that's now blue shifted up into the soft x-ray region and get radiation poisoning and there have been cases where that's been reported so having this set of equations and seeing what they predict and then going out and matching against real data i mean that's really a really a boon i'll give you one example clara's island in brazil 1977 1978 they had a massive wave that lasted for many days of like a scene from close encounters is the third kind or whatever hundreds of advanced aerospace vehicles were observed by civilians and the brazilian air force investigative team they set up a whole operation called operation plate by the brazilian air force more than a thousand pages of documents log sketches and maps more than 500 photographs 15 hours of motion film physiological effects and medical injuries and so in our atip program all this information was compiled into a big database and we did our best to analyze the implications so part of what led to the engineering space time metric engineering as we call it is when you see all these injuries you say well what could have caused that well this blue shifting would cause it but where do you get blue shifty oh from einstein's equations if you were able to generate this space diametric engineering so you know the medical injuries some overlap with current cases range all the way from numbness headache paralysis some debts in here and so on so actually having a model like this that can then be matched against data even medical injury data turned out to be significant for us now despite the programs of progress in the program since the advance as an atip advanced aerospace threat identification program let's face it the topic is inherently anomalous no one would disagree with that therefore despite the reality of the observation the topic does not fit smoothly into a known profile of department of defense or intelligence community structures and especially if it's a very black program you know the public affairs office doesn't even know about it doesn't know what you're dealing with so it's it's not a happy marriage and because of the national security implications so much compartmentalization and stove piping is very difficult to integrate all the data and and make rapid progress so progress in trying to get to the root of all these elements that are being observed is very difficult and the advocacy of the issue in government circles was not viewed as career enhancing people are trying to push this inside the pentagon inside the intelligence community always had to deal with pushback from higher level people who really didn't know what was going on and it was so compartmentalized you couldn't briefly tell them what was going on so a group of us decided that we should set up an outreach program in the public sector and try to get as much information out there as as we possibly could the goal was to establish a broad base high quality scientific community of interest to have the conversation in the public sector concerning uap unidentified aerial phenomena and other related leading edge topics because a lot of these topics are linked so we set up something called to the stars academy of arts and science and if you've been following the field if you've probably seen reference to it it was co-founded by tom delong senior intelligence officers from the department of defense and cia and distinguished research scientists it was structured as an sec regulated public benefit corporation so that means it sort of lies between crowdfunding in one end and your usual ip organization that you can buy and sell shares on the public market it's kind of in between and one of the requirements i mean people can go to the website and buy shares they just can't trade them until at some future point you have an ipo and you get into the regular market and one of the requirements of public benefit corporation is that you have to provide something of value to the public so educational aspects are our major requirement to have a public benefit corporation and the structure is transparent you can go to the website to the starsacademy.com and you can track everything that's going on so it's a very rich web-based community venture setup called default which is now being developed where there can be a lot of information transfer back and forth between the public and the organization and government entities and contractors so it's growing it was set up by tom delong as i said i mean he was the person who founded blink 182 a big rock band i'd never heard of it when i talked to my son they said of course everybody knows about blink 182. well he's had a lot lifelong interest in in the ufo et alien topic and so on and because of his notoriety he could always get into the office of various dod officials and high level executives and aerospace corporations and and he made the big pitch that you know everyone out in the street knows that something's going on and the government is saying you know there's nothing going on you know that that that's not good it's not it's not good for your industry it's not good for the government whatever you should let me set up something where we kind of get a conversation going so in fact he was able to convince uh people to do that so we formed to the stars academy he's the ceo at interim ceo lou elizondo you've probably seen his face if you follow this area at all he was the person the last person in the pentagon who actually ran the a-tip program and he was frustrated because he couldn't get more assets to help resolve the problem and so on he's one of those people who realize you know this is not career enhancing and so on so he actually left even though he was running the program to join to the start and he's taken a very public uh stance and you see him on news programs all the time here he is on cnn so he's in charge of our global affairs and security division of ttsa chris mellon he joined he's still a consultant in nationals to the intelligence community and national security matters he had a 20-year career included being deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence he also has been very strong both publicly and you'll see him in interviews uh often if you follow this topic he's on tucker carlson up and down but he's also very good at behind the scenes interactions with senators and congressmen and arranging for briefs i mean i briefed two congressional committees uh recently myself so so he's he's he's quite a superstar in helping us jim simavan just retired from the cia he was one of the true james bond kinds of people i've heard his stories uh you know and he needed to get a missile out of uh iran or whatever i mean he'd be the one to figure out how to go over there and buy it and so he was an operations officer both overseas and domestically he's on our board he's in charge of operations vice president for operations steve justice uh who i had briefed many times at highly classified levels when he was running black programs at lockheed martin skunk works and i couldn't believe it that about the time i joined he left skunk works and agreed to join also so he's uh in charge he's the vice president he's vice president well he's he's in charge of the aerospace division of ttsa brilliant guy knows everything billion dollar programs all black that he was in charge of i mean we're talking about heavy hitters here and then there's me i had my physics background happy as a clam phd from stanford working on lasers i got my first laser patent while i'm still a phd student or whatever but in addition to that life which has resulted in some 200 publications and three patents and so on in the background i also had this other life because i started out as a naval intelligence officer stationed at the national security agency nsa between my master's and my phd before i went out to stanford to get my phd and so i had that background and so it turns out that every time there's a problem somebody wants to solve and they want a physicist who's had clearances and they know they can trust and they know the area is so weird that no other physicists are going to agree to do anything about it who are you going to call so that's how i get involved in these programs and we have a couple of people are really savvy people who who run investment groups to handle the financial aspects of ttsa and so the sec filings and everything all out there on the website so it's a very transparent organization of course we don't all tell everything we know but chris mellon is also the chair of a science advisory board and several distinguished scientists and academicians so if you go to the website you can see their cvs and backgrounds you'll see that many of them have been involved at cia or department of defense or whatever with fantastic backgrounds of information so they can make a real contribution and as a science advisory board make sure that we stand straight and narrow with any claims we have so what are ttsa's goals first of all promote the concept that forefront topics should not be considered taboo for investigation by scientists i mean it's always been a problem with these kinds of topics remote viewing telepathy psychokinesis ufos search for extraction intelligence and of course to generate funding i mean that's why we have a website where people can send money to underwrite significant research in the areas but because of our public benefit corporation element we want to have user-friendly databases so they can be universal access to whatever information we can come up with and that we can reveal and to provide positive support for collaboration between government aerospace industry academia to accomplish all these things for example we just recently signed something called an army crater with the army creator stands for cooperative research and development agreement and so uh we're still doing things with with the government as well as with the public but since part of our remit as uh public benefit corporation we create entertainment properties books documentaries films and all kinds it also makes money to help support the research for example there's a series the secret machine series is now two volumes out which is science fiction written by tom delong and and another author which kind of incorporates the ideas that we're talking about only at a fiction level there's also another series god's man in war by peter levinda that explores humanity's history going back thousands of years unclaimed interaction with other kinds of beings whether it's angels or aliens or gin or who knows what they are so it's it's a nice compendium of the fact that there's a rich history throughout our whole culture about interaction with non-human beings so the structures we have a science structure that has a series of programs an aerospace structure for example a beam energy propulsion launch program is one we're trying to get funded at this point ordinarily when you put something into orbit you've got you're carrying all that rocket fuel and that takes up most of the volume and you're a very small payload well it turns out you can leave all the rocket fuel home and just have really giant lasers on the ground that then hit the back of a satellite a cubesat that you want to launch and so there's a whole industry there already proven by nasa and the air force to be a viable industry but the infrastructure hasn't been set up because i mean we got rockets working who wants to put a billion dollars in to a new industry before we actually can use it but anyway that's something that should be done and and once that area gets filled out and brought up to speed the cost for launching satellites into orbit will be ten percent of what it is now so everybody recognizes the economic potential but who wants to put in all the money to build it until a decade or not from you actually use it and make money so it's a tough road to hold and of course because the entertainment and public interface documentaries tv books and so on so what are activities today well i mean in some sense we were responsible for legitimizing the topic in the mainstream press so that was really a sea change about this subject area and ttsa working in public and also behind the scenes this is one of their successes as i say lou elizondo he's out there top media presenting the facts so that's a big change and it's given the quality of the sources coming out from the shadows i mean ex-senate majority leader harry reid top-rated f-18 pilots important government officials the bar has been raised on legitimization so after that new york times article december 2017 the ridicule factor has by and large gone way down in comparison to the uh acceptance that there's something here the three high quality f-18 videotapes of unidentified aerial phenomena i showed you one here you can go on the internet or to the ttsa website and see the others they've been pulled out of the pentagon and released due to the pressure from primarily lou alessando and we set up meetings with people in foreign uap programs some of them have promised to provide us data and even materials from crashed craft in the past whenever some foreign company a country came up with some let's say some material or whatever called in the united states give it to them it disappears in the black hole they never find out anything about it so that's the end of that well we're coming on as a public benefit corporation saying you know you give us pieces whatever we learn in our evaluation it's going to go on a website for the public so it's not going to disappear in a black hole so suddenly we have generals in other countries i met with the general from brazil and this whole issue myself who are really willing to cooperate and of course from negotiations media outlets to share documentation and process some of you may know or have seen unidentified it was a history channel [Music] series of several episodes that went forward last year we're now recording the second season and unlike ancient aliens on history channel there's a lot of speculation and stuff that's fascinating but you don't know how much of it is is real and also unlike things like ufo hunters where people go out and talk to people and you get a pretty sensationalistic view the unidentified program really went out of its way to like really just reveal the facts so most of lu's time was going around interviewing the f-18 pilots interviewing the radar operators on the ships and that that kind of thing so it was pretty straight line no no exaggerating went out of our way in that whole program you'll never hear anybody say the word alien i mean until it's absolutely nailed down what's going on speculation is off the table just the facts about that's it we'll follow the data where the data leads us it'll be tall but that's what it is follow the data now some of the pressure and especially behind the scene stuff the navy finally confirmed for the first time that those videos really are unidentified aerial phenomena i mean after the videos were released you had everybody and their cousins saying oh well maybe it's just some new drone that the navy or the air force is testing and and whatever i mean why should i think it's really that they don't know what it is but because of the pressure and the fya requests and briefing behind the scenes the navy finally agreed to come forward and say they really are unidentified for example in politico brian bender writing about defense said the u.s navy is drafting new guidelines for reporting ufos and up until this time i've told you there were decades of navy pilots running into these things all over the place but they never reported them why because they were concerned their superiors would tell them okay you've been smoking dope or something i mean what's going on so no one wanted to lose their flight status by reporting ufos so they didn't now because of the pressure the navy has come out and put out official edicts to the f-18 and other pilots saying if you see a ufo first of all grab all the data you can and i've seen some neat ones where the pilots actually use their cell phones to take a picture and you must report it so that's now part of the new culture and the navy even has admitted they providing a series of briefings for senior by senior naval intelligence officers as well as aviators who reported hazards to aviation safety so this is not just lying in a little cloister of uh people who like to kind of be part of this kind of thing no it's it's being briefed you won't hear who's being briefed because they don't don't want to make an issue of it but there are a lot of people at high places being briefed i even saw on the tucker carlson show that president trump was told that these briefs are going on what do you think he said that's sort of i don't know about that but on the other hand our pilots are really short people so anyway so that's the back story in the forward story the back story is dia set up this program one in 2008 that had a whole precedence of other programs other programs ongoing and then the forward story is some of us coming forward to form to the stars academy to try to get a better acceptance and more conversation out in the public and so that's what we've been doing that's our forward story contribution so that's that's the story thanks for your for your interest [Applause] okay it's a reasonable question well how does our organization and our viewpoint my viewpoint consider the other viewpoints out there for example there's a whole group of people who are talking about we have bases on mars there's a secret ufo program we got spacecraft all over the place in the solar system and many other organizations pushing certain viewpoints like that from our standpoint we're just following and i personally am just following the data and what i can really get my hands around somehow and so when i read many of these other or hear many of these other claims that you know we have a secret space program already ongoing i mean i can't absolutely refute it but i have no evidence and in my programs i've been involved with i haven't seen any evidence like that so i just put all that in a gray basket on the shelf and stick with what we can follow with data and basically my colleagues within ttsa are doing the same thing i mean we don't even go so far as to say well we know they're e.t spaceships some people may think that but we don't say anything along those lines because until we have hard evidence that's what we committed ourselves to having in the public conversation things that can be verified documented and so on and we'll leave the speculation to elsewhere uh how soon will warframe be available for for civilian use what's part some more to the question i bet there's a lot more to the question certainly we have people working on the theoretical physics of it as i say space-time metric engineering and so on that would say that in principle warp drive is possible or wormhole access out in the cosmos is possible we've all seen many of us seen elders interstellar which is a terrific movie the science advisor to that movie was kip thorne one of the top general relativity people from princeton so the science in that program is absolutely absolutely perfect in fact he he expressed the fact that he's really glad that that movie got made because there are a lot of solutions in general relativity that you would have to understand to make the concepts that were shown in the movie but no academic budget was able to put up the money to run all those computer programs but in hollywood they did and so in fact they learned a lot and were able to publish things based on the uh what what's been what was done by the hollywood industry computer industry but in terms of uh generally thinking that we're going to get from here to there in our lifetime or maybe even within a century right now we don't see a path forward so either it's as hard as the equations would now predict and therefore work driving warp drive probably is going to happen for a century or maybe more or there's some back door to the alamo so to speak that we can do an end to round run and find some lower energy way of generating things like warp drive and wormholes and so on that we just haven't discovered yet so of course that's a big issue behind government and aerospace corporation programs is to try to figure out how these things work and see if there is some unknown shortcut that we could take so at this point all i could say for sure is it's going to be a century or more and if it pops up to be usable within our lifetimes that's because somebody has really found a magic key to the lock so at this point we don't see where it will come from this is a question about what about free energy technology i mean a lot of energy buffs out there in fact for a long time i was one myself because i spent a number of years investigating potential applications of zero-point energy so-called and one of the you might say attractive aspects as well there's all that energy in the vacuum fluctuations maybe we can tap some of it and so in fact we even set up a maverick inventor program in in our lab and we said okay as smart as we think we are we may not be able to find the answer but maybe it's some kind of garage who doesn't know enough physics and he does some stupid experiment that no physicists would ever think of doing and he happens to stumble on oh here's an energy source and so in our maverick inventor program we put out the word that if you think you've got quote a free energy device an over unity energy source or whatever bring it to us we have this giant million dollar calorimeter that's excellent for measuring energy and we've had people show up from as far away as china to have their devices looked at i looked at many cold fusion examples that were brought to us and so on and i'm sorry to say that even though our investor at the time said you know just find one that works and you know we're all going to be trillionaires here uh truth of matter is we uh our website is a graveyard of dashed and vintage streams so at this point i haven't seen any evidence for workable new quote free energy over unity energy device even though i mean it's interesting for example vacuum fluctuation energy put a couple of plates up electromagnetic energy fluctuating in the vacuum as it turns out the modes that can exist between the plates is restricted because you have to match the boundary condition there's no restrictions on the modes outside the plates it'll push the place together so-called casmir effect and hey you got a puff of energy out of the vacuum fluctuations whoa but then what do you do if you pull the plates apart you have to put in as much energy as you got so that's not the way to go uh i i know of one way that i think should be explored and my colleagues and i had worked on it bernie hayes and garrett modell and they actually got a patent on it a very very difficult experiment to do circulating hydrogen gas through nanopores and some possibility of doing something but it's a very expensive experiment way out there in terms of the technology you need to do it so at this point i have yet to see even though i've had a lot of interest in it any new energy devices to come out of these new concepts sorry to say this is a question about richard dodie has stated on the internet a very controversial figure as many you would know and he stated that he had worked for us for i guess over a decade or whatever that was a period in which we were really investigating all kinds of aspects of the phenomena that i talked about today and so we had all kinds of consultants and richard dodie was one of them and so he gathered up information that he could gather up and thought we'd be interested in but he was like one of many and so even though he's a very controversial figure out there we're not sure if the data he provided what was the percentage of that we could really count on but hey we we lit we did we didn't want to leave any stone unturned any anything that might be hiding under a rock so we had several people and he was one who consulted with us and uh you know he told us about various sightings and certain aspects of government programs and so on so so what he says is true and it'd be too long to try to go into the deity he provided us with somewhat we evaluated and couldn't verify and some of it we couldn't verify summit we're pretty sure might not exactly be the case but he was a counterintelligence officer so that that would be okay because that's that would be his job so anyway we interacted with all levels of people in and out of the government so it's not surprising that you know if we were doing all of this and trying to find out everything we could find out why would we leave out of our tool kit somebody who's making these big claims and was clearly part of a program so yeah we worked with him i happen to like him as an individual actually he's a nice guy okay the question had to do with 38 papers that we that we commissioned that gave us looks at all kinds of advanced technologies with our question of where will your area of expertise be by the year 2050 they could make a contribution to aerospace engineering and flight and so on and so a lot of the information that came out of those programs is you know pretty startling i mean someone's very you know quite originally quite sensitive and we had to beat up on people and some aerospace corporations say well come on tell me something about plasma physics there for propulsion and why can't it's classified well you know dig something out there so anyway because these were unclassified papers so given the broad span as you could see in my listing of the 38 areas of new technologies coming along i think it's reasonable to think that at some point there will be a fusion that will really really really make a big difference of course way back when early people investigating electromagnetic effects did things who could have predicted a cell phone one of the one of the great examples i have actually was given to me by steve justice from lucky martin skunk works who's now in the uh part of ttsa he said that he found an article in 19 something or other years and years ago saying well you know someday there will be an army officer could carry a 50 pound pack on his back and be able to tell exactly where he is on the surface of the earth and that will probably happen in 10 or 15 years of course we now all have that in our cell phones so it's always the case that predicting ahead usually falls short rather than over estimating where you're going to get to so all i can say is that given the level of technologies that are being pursued in every area and they're being pursued with better and better instrumentation so the product per unit time is actually going up exponentially so i'm certain that uh you know within 10 20 years or whatever we're going to have some amazing technologies that if i were to try to list them right now any reasonable person would say well that's ridiculous we're not going to get from here to there so so that that that's that's the point of ttsa and many of the aerospace corporations we work with is let's just plumb everything in sight and see how far and fast we can get so warp drive in 30 years he suggests warp driving 30 years since i'm living in the president i would say not a chance i know but 30 years from now you might look back and say what you know you should have known better of course we're going to get it why don't you say something he asked the question about another sordid part of my past working with esp and remote viewing and ingo swan and so on that was really really quite a deal there's an interesting background how about how all that happened and i should tell you at the time i was a very straight aerophysicist in fact i had just co-authored a textbook while i was at stanford on fundamentals of quantum electronics which was a graduate level textbook published in english french russian and chinese i was at the top of my game and one of the things that bothered me and bothered many of my physics colleagues were well what about consciousness what about sentence is it still atoms and molecules all the way down it's just too complicated for us to figure out or are there some additional fields beyond what we know the four forces and so on and so that bugged me writing a textbook didn't know the answer it bugs a lot of my colleagues so i was always on the search for was there any evidence that there's other kinds of fields that we don't know about you know we should find out it was about that time that cleve baxter who is famous for he's a famous polygraph expert taught polygraph to fbi cia law enforcement organizations and one day on a lock he just connected his polygraph up to a plant and he saw signals coming out of the plant that looked pretty much like what he sees on people and so he said well i think i'm going to threaten the plant like i would a person and so he got out as a matchbook and he saw a big response on the plant he thought oh my gosh maybe this means plants are sentient at some level so they started doing experiments we had a plant here and a plant here he'd do something to disturb this plant and this plant would show a signal and so that was published and i saw that and while i was ruminating over my idea about well there are extra fields or whatever so i said okay i'm going to set up a really cool experiment 100 of physical experiment nothing to do with remote viewing nothing to do with esp nothing to do with psychokinesis i'm just going to grow some algae culture together separate the two cultures zap this one with a laser and see if that one responded measure the velocity propagation between the two so i bundled all that up into a proposal and sent it off to cleve baxter in new york and said well what do you think of my idea to try to kind of replicate your effect in a real high-tech kind of way well it's one of those things where your life takes an unbelievable turn uh based on true random coincidence it turned out that cleve baxter and ingo swann the famous psychic and remote viewer met at a cocktail party in new york city and they were talking about what they do and so cleve invited him over to his lab to see if he could affect his plants if the plants would respond to him while he was there he saw my proposal on cleve's desk so he wrote me a letter saying well if you're interested in that sort of borderline between animate and inanimate physics why do you want to deal with algae culture they can't tell you what's happening you should be dealing with somebody like me ordinarily i mean i was really as i say a straight arrow physicist i was just thrown out in the garbage except attached to the letter was a big report of an experiment that had been done in city college in new york where uncommand working with gertrude schweidler there he was able to make the temperature of temperature measuring devices that were in thermos models on the other side of the lab go up and down on command i said oh my gosh that's you know that's physics so i decided to invite him out to stanford research institute where i was at the time and i told my physics colleagues hey i've got this quote psychic coming oh my god they're all frauds and charlatans you know you better really have a good experiment well as it turns out i did have a good experiment it turned out that we had a million-dollar or whatever a special magnetometer that was being built that had been built to detect quarks which are subnuclear particles anyway there's this quantum chip down inside this device surrounded by electrical shielding surrounded by magnetic shielding surrounded by superconducting shielding no way that anything from the outside could affect that so i grabbed them by the arm and took them over there and said you know i sort of have a kind of a high-tech version of what you did in new york those temperature measuring devices i want you to see if you can affect this so on command he puts he put signals on there there were absolutely undoubtedly effects of what he was doing and of course the graduate student whose life depended on this being imperturbable from the outside wait wait a minute there must be some bubbles in the liquid helium line you know i'm going to get let me check let me check so i'm sure that was just some kind of glitch some kind of coincidence and i was running fine i said okay angle kind of you want to try that again you reproduce the same effect and so you got student again so i want you guys to go get it go get a break go go you know the restaurant or something and let me find out what's wrong with my system it was running just fine we came back in and said well i'm sure you can't do that again he did it again and i'm not talking about a little signal peeking out of out of the noise i'm talking about something that generally looks like that and said so of course he kicked us out of the laps and never went back here again the navy would paid for the development of saying what do you have this happen the result of that was that i wrote it up i mean i said long answer to your question i wrote it up circulated around the physics friends somebody dropped in on a cia desk suddenly the dcia descends on my doorstep they said oh have we been looking for you i said why yeah what did i do he said look russia and the east block countries are spending millions of dollars for years on esp research no scientists in america at least there is such a thing and yet you did this experiment we looked into your background and saw that you had all these clearances because you'd been a naval intelligence officer stationed at nsa so we knew we could count on talking to you here at sri we have lots of black projects here anyway why don't you invite ingo out here and look into this and of course their hope was that i'd invite them out to some really tough experiments and it wouldn't work and they could just take this off the plate never have to worry about it well that's not what happened it grew into a 23-year multi-million dollar project we ended up i mean it was a big deal we trained army intelligence officers to use remote viewing i briefed all kinds of people including bill casey when he was reagan's director of cia and directors of dia appeared before senate or congressional intelligence committees and so on you know it came out to be a big thing it was still all top secret all wrapped up but now it's all been declassified you can buy a big book called stargate chronicles on the internet and see all of the reports we wrote that i thought we'd never see the line of day all because ingo swan did what he did and then showed up at that cocktail party and so he it was the thing about ingo swans interested in him was he's very inward looking he could figure out what he was doing and so he's able to lay out a procedure for how to accomplish the remote viewing tasks and then we were able to train those with other people so he's a real contributor he's a very very smart guy and by the way you might think that psychics say try to take you know credit for anything no he was the hardest guy if we said well that looks like that really worked if he could find a loophole and say well we're not going to count that you know if you if you accept something that's kind of borderline it's got a loophole and it destroys the credibility of all the other research so he was one of the toughest people to accept that there had been an actual result so i've always had great respect for him thank you the question is i hear from a colleague of mine eric davis who worked for me he's now at the aerospace corporation and he'd mentioned that i had written a paper it's not been published but it's been somewhat circulated on what i call ultra-terrestrials as i said we're just following the data and so i've got my colleagues who say oh my god the aliens are here i've got jacqueline telling me no it's it's these are interdimensional you know whatever whatever so i decided to write down all options and put it in the paper called ultraterrestrials and circulated among my colleagues to say we can't overlook anything we must not come to a conclusion before we looked at every possibility so who knows maybe their ets living here they got stranded here millennia go or maybe there's some aerospace corporations has put all this stuff together and it's being hidden or maybe it's uh maybe it's aliens or maybe it's a so i listed all possible or maybe it's just time travelers from the future that happen to be showing you so i put all of the aspects of what it might be given that we can't say for sure and then what are the elements you would look for to find out if this were true or this were true or this were true so this whole idea of ultraterrestrials is something that kind of floats around in the community a great book by mac tony i think is his name has it has a title almost like that so so anyway it was just it was just a circulated think piece to realize okay we should quit being reporters and turn into intelligence officers and go out and seek data instead of just being at the passive in waiting for the government to tell us what or waiting for the aliens to tell us what you know whatever no we should turn into policemen who are searching for clues and trying to build a case for this possibility or this possibility or this possibility and fleshing out those possibilities you know if it's this well then maybe there are a lot of corporations involved so we should be looking into their financial structure or maybe it's this we should so anyway that it was a circulated paper which i'm not ready to publish it this question has to do with the fact that there have been people in general and people within ttsa specifically who are talking about the apparent observation of craft who can move through any kind of media they can be maybe coming from outer space and then they're in our atmosphere and then they dive into the water that's a tough aerospace engineering to try to come to grips with we do have craft that can kind of go in the water and then come out that are but you know not now with the kind of characteristics that are being observed and then she added under that well what about uh going into matter well i mean it just turns out that one of the outcomes in the list of weird things from space diametric engineering is that materials under those conditions are so hardened that they're like made out of diamond or are better and the rest of the world looks like butter so even going into matter going high velocity into the water or whatever is one of the predictions of the modeling so uh having talked about it specifically i mean there there have been some reported cases but you know they came from the public so you don't know whether to believe it or not of craft going into mountains and stuff like that no explosion no so anyway those that's all just debris intellectual debris on the table that we're trying to put together like a jigsaw puzzle and so there hasn't been any particular reason not to talk about it or to talk about it i mean the data we have and performing the data that's what we want to concentrate uh we don't have good data on that so i'm happy to be personally interested because one of the predictions of the modeling but so many that's that's where that stands okay since uh it's a question that sort of implies since you're involved involved in all these sordid areas have you thought about using remote memory to try to answer questions about craft and so on um there have been attempts by some of the we started remote viewing programs army intelligence and so on and those people have all now retired from army intelligence and they're now out in the public giving courses on remote viewing and a number of them have attempted to get answers to questions about uap using remote hearing as far as coming up with something solid i mean a couple of times when i when we had some pretty good evidence of a craft caught under good national means sent remote viewers to so tried to figure out how it was operating the descriptions were to we would say right brain i mean turns out remote viewing is very much of a right brain artistic kind of thing as opposed to left brain analytical thing so attempts to try to figure out technology about it by remote viewers has not been particularly useful a lot of anomalies show up i mean we had one of our best remote viewers was pat price and in addition doing all the wonderful stuff he was doing for us this will give you an idea of how good a remote viewer can be this is during the first first four years of nixon's presidency he came in one morning and he said well you know nixon's not going to make it through the second term because there's something in his office that's going to harm him we had to report that to the cia so they went over there and they looked for toxic substances in microwave generator they couldn't find anything of course we now know by history that it was a tape recorder that did him in when he told us that we said oh my gosh that means spyro agnew will be president and he says no he goes first it turns out he did go first for some kind of money laundering scheme or whatever and so uh he got a guy with that kind of ability and you know one day comes in and says well i found four ufo bases on on the planet i'll give you their locations well i didn't really want to report that but i had to and so as turned out one of my contract monitors one of the locations was in australia near mount zeel and so i told my contract monitor i got you know this crazy list of places and so on he says well i know the station keeper in australia uh i'll call him out there i'll tell him why i'm calling but i'll just see if what i can find out so i called him up and said you know i'm interested in an area around mount zeel and the guy immediately said oh you mean the ufos are always flying around so does that mean it might be possible to collect data on ufos using remote viewing maybe but i do not know of any actual effort under good circumstances with great follow-up to take advantage of remote viewing in the uap area so that's something left for the future so i guess the question really has to do with specifically about ttsa or we're pursuing uh let's say advanced physics that might include the more arcane aspects right now we're not pursuing elements of uh you want to know if we are pursuing elements of what about consciousness with regard to uap phenomena and so on are we pursuing anything like that within ttsa not particularly at this point i know that there are i know people who are pursuing that kind of thing in fact in the absolutely straight arrow quantum physics community now that we're digging into things like quantum entanglement and so on there's a lot of discussion of is consciousness just an emergent epiphenomena of our atoms and molecules or does consciousness have its own sub-platform on which the physical universe is built and so they're real physicists who have really good credentials they're actually doing experiments to try to answer questions like that because it's built in quantum physics that we have non-locality and it's built in quantum physics that there is entanglement over time and space so there's a lot of you might say the philosophical elements of very straight academic quantum physics they're looking into exactly those kinds of issues of the connection between consciousness and what otherwise we call the physical world so um you know if anything comes out of that that looks useful you can be sure that i and my colleagues at ttsa will try to see if we can take advantage of the knowledge that is being developed but right now i don't know of anyone particularly located that well the question is is there just sort of one type of uav or ufo or whatever we see out there or are there many different kinds and have we made a connection whether these might be alien or not and so on the scattering of options that are absolutely picked up on the best of our military platforms are all over the map i don't know if you've heard for example there's a sphere with a cube inside dashes between two of our f-18 pilots in fact that's the event that caused the aviation safety thing to then move to the element of requesting that pilots report their ufo sightings because it was an aviation safety issue not a woo issue and so uh and then there's a tic tac shape and then there there's really good data on triangles and so on so there are a lot of different structures that are reported under under good conditions and so it isn't just one kind of thing for sure this is a question on the bismuth magnesium sample which is unbelievably complicated and all over the internet with everyone from this comes from a well-known process of uh that's known in sucking bismuth out of uh magnesium with mercury and so i kind of think just off of a factory floor versus claims that this this definitely did come from an alien crash retrieval and so on so the answer is we don't yet really know where it came from and uh it's true that 10 years ago linda howe provided us a sample and we did a lot of tests got electron microscope pictures and radiated it with various gigahertz frequencies megahertz frequencies and so on couldn't make any anything out of it so it kind of went on the shelf and it was only after this paper and metamaterials was published we said oh my gosh the claim here that this could have some real utility as microscopic wave guides would actually fit the structure you know that we see there okay well where do we go with that well the truth of matter is that piece is actually pretty mangled and what you'd really like to do is say okay well let's have a nice clean piece of this and also radiate with terahertz frequencies first of all to see if it really does act as a microscopic waveguide for terrorist frequencies and then that works we'll you know irradiate it with other kinds of fields and see if there are any unexpected responses and so on so it is still despite the fact that it gets unbelievable publicity out there it's still absolutely unknown it does range all the way from this was a fraud of junk material sent to us to no this came off the wedge of an et craft we don't know the answer to that and the only way we're going to get something of value is to determine its properties or maybe reproduce it under nice conditions and determine his properties so it's still a giant question mark out there so even though it's uh it's you know it's like a few percent of our effort at ttsa it's like 99 of our criticism so that's just what you get in this field that's the way it goes some of us have developed very hard skins a question about ingo swan and his reporting of being on the moon i don't know if it was on the on the back side or not um yeah i know i know the book in great detail i didn't remember that was in the dark on the backside of the front side or whatever while we had it's exactly described as the book actually while we were doing remote viewing we're getting 20 percent hit rate 30 percent 40 50 and one day someone had somehow gotten into his crypto locked office and left a note on his desk saying when you get to 70 let us know and you let us know by some procedure i forget what it was and so when he finally got up to that point he did let whoever said that no and so they showed up and said and apparently part of some kind of black program and said not your remote viewing is that good we want to use your talents to do some exploration so you know right out of a movie you know meet him in new york city put a black bag over his head drive around go to an underground facility blah blah blah very military kinds of people and they just gave him some coordinates because by then we're doing coordinate remote viewing realizing that they actually send somebody to a site you can just use coordinates explaining that's a whole other thing but anyway and so he was getting descriptions and so on they're really strange because he didn't realize that there were coordinates on the moon and turned out his descriptions were matching features of the moon at some point he said you know am i looking at the moon and they agreed that he was and uh he was actually shocked by some of the stuff that you can read about in the book penetration so that was like some kind of test of whether that could happen and he'd already shown he had the ability to do remote viewing remote locations because before nasa's flyby of jupiter he found the thin rings around jupiter and we reported them in our book called mind reach the head of nasa getting there carl sagan came by our lab and said you know this stuff he generated it's ridiculous that there's only stuff you can get out of any encyclopedia he's got rings around jupiter i mean it sounds like saturn rings around jupiter and of course when the probe actually got there there were rings around jupiter very thin so that's no so he was ahead of everybody in that so anyway these people knew about that and so then the second thing they did is uh sometime later they showed up and said we want to take you to a place up in the north and so he didn't know where it was alaska canada or whatever and they had him there when the ufo came over a lake that they knew was going to come over at a certain time how'd they know that i don't know and so he they wanted him to say anything about it he said you know he was so scared he couldn't say anything anyway the book goes on out of those kind of things uh he didn't know how to come to grips with that uh he was even though we're on top secret projects he had to wait 10 years before he told me that he waited 12 years because he was really afraid i'd really get mad at him for not sharing this and so anyway i came to my own conclusions about uh you know that he was being tested by people who already knew the answers they just wanted to see if they were vulnerable to remote viewers and he and says no no they were trying to get answers that they didn't know the answers to so we never agreed on that so anyway that's that's a lot a bit of arcana about a very long story okay's question is about what i raised about how everything is being sort of mentalized compartmentalized what would say stove piped is there any way to cut through that well in the atip program we were doing our best to cut through that that's why we got all these individual 38 papers and then made them available to everyone and so behind the scenes there are efforts to get people talking to each other all of whom have their little fiefdoms and so whether that's going to work out i don't know the answer to yet so we're doing our best so the question is given that in my talk i basically talk about navy involvement what about the air force you'd expect the air force to be involved and i have my reasons for believing the air force is involved but i can't go into any detail and and most of the what's come out for public consumption is the navy's involvement so you know i'll just have to stick with that i didn't quite get the question you said since project blue book continue and actually project blue book as that as as a named project blue book didn't continue it's just that other programs were set up with different names all over the place so and what was the second part of your question oh his project stargate the remote viewing program continued on or if it has you wouldn't hear of it that's all i can say well the question is about the confusing messages that come out from the public affairs office and the pentagon who don't have the clearances to know exactly what's going on in atip or follow-on programs you know is that uh claire is there going to be any clarification of that for example when new elizondo described his position at one point the pentagon said well we don't know that he was involved in this program or there even was a ufo and that atip was involved with ufos and and so that caused a lot of uh you know problems for louis zonda i was absolute hero if i could give you a list of stuff he's done in the intelligence world you know what a hero he was and then they changed their mind and written and originally said that the videotapes of the f-18 didn't really come out of the pentagon or they weren't officially approved for release then they changed their minds okay yeah he was in the program and then it goes back it's just the clarification is not coming forward very cleanly and so there's a lot of work behind the scenes that say you know as long as the story out there is so confused that might be good for some people to get this off the radar but you know it's not right and so ttsa and my colleagues are doing a lot behind the scenes speaking to people to try to clean up so they get a nice clean statement they finally came out with a clean statement to say yeah these videos are official and what's in the videos really is unidentified so we're making progress but there's a lot more clarification that could and i think will come because now that the profile is so high they're drowning in foia requests and having to deal with them and sends them off into the bowels of the pentagon the intelligence community to try to get some answers good luck so anyway i think in a matter of time things will get clarified but it's really a slow process and poorly losing has really been suffering under it so gotta say he's repeating a well-known actually was from a presentation that ben rich who was head of lockheed martin's conch works gave shortly before his death to an engineering group at some university in southern california and he was talking about all the advances in aerospace and how he developed stealth and so on and as he got toward the end of his set of slides he ended up with a slide of what looks like an et craft taking off into the stars and so uh jan harzin who's actually director of mufon actually after the talk was over cornered him and said well you know is this what can you tell me did you guys really have all this going together and so in i guess maybe even in his talk he said you know we now have the technology to take e.t home and so on and so a lot of questions in fact by me and everybody in this field you know was he exaggerating was he really trying to tell us something or is he just generating interest in the future and so whether what he was saying you know we have the technology to take e.t home and it's not as hard as you would think it would be statements like that coming from a guy whose head of the skunk works really hard to discount it on the other hand as we go digging for evidence you know people's skunk works i mean i've had contracts with scott parker and we keep digging you really can't find out why he said that so either it was somewhat of an exaggeration and just kind of a blueprint for the future or it is so buried that even people you who you think would know don't know so i don't know the answer to that question how should i take ben rich's comments seriously or not i just keep digging on the off-chance that he might have been telling it like it is but you know until i find data or my colleagues find data it just again is one of those things in the gray box on the shelf do we know of anything that russians are doing comparable to what you're presenting oh they are looking like mad at the whole subject area just like we are i think i showed one slide which was the 1991 report that's that thick of all the things they were trying to figure out i mean both the u.s and the russians have a similar problem and that is that ufos have come over our nuclear missile silos and turned them off so that we can't launch well it turns out there's a case in russia which is even worse than that ufo came over and the missile silo got turned on and started the launch code sequence and they couldn't they couldn't turn it off they couldn't control it they thought they're about ready to start world war three when he got up to sort of the last element of the launch it stopped they took that thing apart nut by bolt to try to figure out how this could even happen in principle and you know similarly in our case all the contractors who built all the control equipment or called in to figure out how this could even happen in principle so yes the russians are concerned just like we're concerned because they're gathering data just like we're gathering data they have evidence just like we have evidence they have their teams their atip teams just like we have our atip teams so they have less openness i mean ttsa is really kind of out in the front of being relatively open about what's going on i have not seen that in the soviet union but you can be sure that their involved just as we're involved and this is a question about something that's floating around on the internet about something magical happening in in antarctica senator kerry went to investigate it and other things some astronauts and so on i've not been able to tell i don't have any evidence i don't have any opinion because i base my opinions only and what i can verify and so i've not seen any actual evidence of some strange e.t or nazi or whatever thing going on in antarctica so to me i have it in my file about conspiracy theories that that i'm not accepting as as worth spending any time thinking about i don't actually have any data so i don't have an opinion i only follow the data this is a question about the wilson documents that apparently got leaked on the internet admiral wilson who was one of the joint chiefs of staff interviewed by my senior scientist colleague eric davis since it discusses uh potentially ongoing programs i have no comment this is a question about discussion in fact i guess i even mentioned it on an interview with george knapp about a document leaking that verified that there were in fact crash retrievals i know it's out there on the internet someplace i'm not sure where and [Music] so i don't know where you could go look for it yeah the question was uh when i when i had richard dodie's the consultant uh you know some years ago was that part of the atip program no this was on another program before atep this is a question about dan sherman's book or just called above black or something like that about his experiences being involved with et is part of a super secret program and so on i don't have any evidence for it i don't have any opinion for it of it some of what was described didn't quite gel with things i knew about in the general quote psychic realm of government investigation so i've been kind of skeptical but you know can i say for sure or not for sure was there something to that i have no way of judging her question has to do with the fact that mentioned under the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis that i had formed that you know maybe maybe some group out there that in fact has been successful in reverse engineering or even inventing from scratch those kinds of exotic craft well it's got to be on the table as an option as a possibility my point in and bring it up in that paper was say okay well if that's a possibility what would be the clues that we could find out there you know i mean if somebody's building really magical craft they still have to order their nuts and bolts from home depot or something you know it should be possible to follow some lines and so on so that that was that was an example one example of okay if that's an option that's a possibility how would we be able to find out what investigatory tools should we use what paths should we follow to see if we can find evidence for that i can't rule out the possibility that you know some terrestrial or organization who knows back in the middle ages accidentally just you know discovered anti-gravity or something and now they're off in some you know mountain hideout in the himalayas or something you know building these crap so you can't you can't uh i'm not ready to rule out anything i also i want you to know that you know that sounds like my mind is so open my brains are falling out the truth of the matter is i i i'm very skeptical i don't because just knowing the physics i can't imagine that somebody has done that purely ground up and i have yet to see evidence in the official literature that i'm exposed to even in high levels that successful reverse engineering has occurred so all that just stays in my gray box at this point well this is a question about one of the things that's floating out and in fact i even know the program you're talking about that nixon left some secret document when he left talking about ufos or ets or what he knew or whatever and that document has not been found you know could remote viewers be used to find the document and so on i don't know what to make of that whether there's any validity to the story generally speaking it's difficult for remote viewers to find hidden things you can give the coordinates and they can get there but it's like they're dropped in on a parachute and they have no idea where they are but when you do it the other way and that is we'll tell you exactly what we're looking for can you find it that's a much tougher tougher avenue with remote viewing it has worked in fact jimmy carter revealed a result that we thought we were told would never be revealed and that is a soviet plane was being flown out of libya uh to be turned over to us and apparently the pilot got cold feet he said well you know the kgb is gonna hunt me down the rest of my life so he just bailed out just changed his mind and let it crash somewhere in africa somewhere in africa when it ran out of fuel and nobody could find it with the satellites because it crashed into jungle canopy likely and so the satellites couldn't find it so when things get really tough stan turner who was carter's head of cia came to us said can your quote remote viewers find this plane we want to find it before the russians do and so we put two of our best remote viewers on it one from the air force one from our own sri and they describe where it was and put an x on a map which was in two miles and this is over hundreds of thousand square miles on a map within two miles of where the plane was in the jungle so the cia folks could run in and get the plane which we got and so that was a case of a successful finding something that was hidden we were told that that would never be revealed but then after carter was out of office he was talking to a group and at a university in georgia and somebody said what do you think's kind of weird and strange happened while you were president he said yeah you know a soviet bomber went down in africa and we had to turn to psychics to find it he's actually uh his his there's a videotaped interview of him actually describing that event so but anyway finding stuff especially you're going to use your resource to find something that just comes out of a conspiracy theory may not even be true you know we just don't go there thanks all right i'm sure i told a lot more than i should have no no no all right i hope we can edit this yeah i i have one more final question for you the last time i heard your name on the internet stephen greer was pitching his movie that's coming out and he said that you had told him that there were some [Music] anti-gravity or anti-energy anti-energy devices or something and he had asked you why he didn't make them public and you said that they would murder your kids and your wife and probably you if you said why did you say that i didn't say that i didn't say that most of i mean it really really ruins my appreciation for the media in general because most times when i find something in there about me it's not true so i'm wondering is that the case with everything i'm reading here anyway no i did not tell greer steve prayer that if anything were released if i were to release anything i and my family would be murdered never said it never even thought it so there you go thanks for clearing that up [Applause] watch more podcast clips now on our youtube channel go to livewire podcast clips and watch more great podcast videos just like this one [Music]