Edmund Storms at NPA-19: What is Cold Fusion and Why Should You Care?

Transcript

pleasure to introduce the final speaker for today's sessions and um I want to just introduce this with a little bit of history about the NPA I'm sure some of you are from tesl Tech probably never even heard the NPA until a few hours ago and we want to make a welcome to you especially but I want to just tell you a little bit about our history uh this organization was founded this is our 19th annual conference so it was the first Conference was held in 1994 uh and the man who organized this this organization the natural philosophy Alliance is named John Chappelle he um wrote a paper which I introduced two days ago in my talk uh 1965 about the s effect and he he made the observation that a lot of what we think we know is you know in about physics is based on a misunderstanding of the foundations of those things the very metaphysics behind that and so that's really kind of the underlying principle of behind the NPA and and I never had the chance to meet uh Dr Chappelle he died in 2002 but he uh his ideas and his ideal for an organization that could get together and discuss ideas openly on the foundations of science is really a great one and uh it's what led to uh us being here today and so in recognition and in honor of Dr Chappelle we had in 2004 our organization instituted a special uh presentation once a year that would be in his honor and so this year the next presentation is to be that presentation and uh you know I don't know if you've recognized this it just kind of hit me today that do you realize that we have the world's foremost authorities on several topics right here in this room and the world's authorities on electric Universe Concepts the world's authorities on electrodynamics the world's authorities on einsteinian physics are here in this room and we also have with us the world's Authority on perhaps uh the one of the most interesting and fascinating experimental Concepts right now and that is cold fusion or known as cold fusion today we we like to call it low energy nuclear reaction and uh we have a man who has was involv involved in this uh event and I'm sure he'll be telling you a little bit about the history so I won't go into that but he's been involved from the beginning in 1989 and has been uh active at Los Alamos Laboratories not too far from here uh doing experimental work in this area and probably knows as much as anyone uh about this from the beginning he was uh I have the very first version uh issue of a magazine that was called cold fusion uh which was the predecessor of infinite energy magazine and and the man that was on the cover of that magazine is our next speaker and uh so it's really a great privilege I I feel that this is uh we have in our presence the uh the world's Authority on on what's going on in this and he's going to speak today up not only about the history and what how this all we we got here uh today um in this exploration but uh he's going to tell us a little bit about the science behind it and really giving us an explanation for uh an experimental fact is undeniable it's been reproduced many many times and so it is a tremendous honor for me and a great thrill for me to introduce to you Dr Ed [Applause] stores thank you Greg uh before I answer your questions I'd like to ask you one uh how many of you believe that cold fusion is real please oh wow it looks like the uh Skeptics are outnumbered to remember and to carry away with you when you leave so you don't have to stay awake for the whole talk and and if you believe what I want you to remember that's even better lenr or cold fusion is a real phenomena that's able to initiate various nuclear reactions by a unique process that's basically the claim it isn't just a single nuclear reaction but it's a group of of nuclear reactions the lenr process has no relationship to hot Fusion process other than the diff Fusion of hydrogen Isotopes is involved in both cases the problem early in the field was the effort to make a a relationship between the two because cold fusion did not act like hot Fusion in some people's mind cold fusion could not be real the fact is that they are entirely different phenomena operating on under different conditions and we'll look at that in more detail so try not to apply what you have learned about hot Fusion to Cold Fusion the third thing is that LR is the most important discovery of the last two Centuries with applications to energy production and the understanding of nuclear behavior that um that's very important because lenr or low nuclear reactions are a source of energy we are in desperate need of energy we're at the present time polluting the environment risking uh runaway uh heating of the earth endangering the food supply and even risking Nations when accidents happen now you'd think that if somebody came up with a way of making an ideal energy source a source that has no problems no pollution no CO2 but they would jump at the chance to investigate it even if it was improbable and so you have to ask why it's been more than 22 years in counting that this particular phenomena has not been accepted by the ordinary scientist and by technology well the reason for that is that a myth was created now if you want to censor something all you have to do is create a myth and then all the people without imagination and with uh who are lazy will do your dirty work but this myth was created and the myth essentially says it's an impossible process proposed by people who are deceived and stubbornly insist they are right in spite of obvious errors that's a universal myth I mean some of you have it applied to your particular uh ideas as well we don't have time to go through who created this these were people to some extent who felt that uh who who were involved with hot fusion and felt that that program was at risk if this turned out to be real there were academics who could not possibly understand would not possibly come up with an explanation for cold fusion so therefore it must be wrong um but there were several that were particularly uh injurious and and effective in creating the myth one of these is John hazinga when Pon and Flashman made their announcement it became a a worldwide it was worldwidely known it it was uh published in almost every uh journal and uh newspaper it came to the intention of George Bush the George Bush went to his science advisor Glen seard and said well what do we do about this and Glenn seaborg as he has written essentially said and I paraphrase um I really don't believe this is real but we really ought to put together a committee and they'll look into it and that'll be the end of it so the RAB panel was created ER panel was already a panel uh that the government used and they just created a a cold fusion version uh a a subsidiary of it they appointed 20 um scientists to the committee most of them had no interest in cold fusion and had no ability to judge it anyway they were there purely to make the committee look important but a few of them did go to the various Laboratories and um looked into the prospects of it being real John hazinga however wrote the report when uh his co-chairman Norman Ramsey read this report he was absolutely appalled and he threatened to resign unless the conclusions were made more objective they were made more objective but it did not change the tone of the report itself and as a result the doe essentially officially determined that cold fusion was not real now that had a big impact because no business in the United States would invest money if the co if the Boe would not agree that it was real other governments even uh refused to put money in because after all the doe in the United States said it wasn't real so why should we get involved so this was very very damaging if you want to know about C Fusion I suggest there are some very good sources I suggest you read excess energy why Co Fusion research prevailed by Charles B that's um a very good book easy read and if you forgive me I would like you to buy and read my book the science of low energy nuclear reaction it gives a a description of my uh experience at Los Alamos it also summarizes all the work that was known at at up to 2007 there's over a thousand citations in the book I give a lot of background a lot of uh understanding of how to do calorimetry it's just a good book to read if you want to know the science and if you want to try to replicate if you want to know the present information um l.org is a website that has has on it most of the uh papers and many in full text that address the science in the field it also has a number of essays that describe the U science photographs of apparatus it's a gold mine because you can U search the site using um keywords or you can put it into endnote and put it into your own bibliography so it's it really is Handy a number of other websites have been have uh been produced been created but a particularly one good one is C Fusion now uh it has a growing number of interviews with people in the field and including uh this lecture today and Ruby K is going to put the her video that she's making right now on the website so if if you went to sleep uh in part of my talk you don't have to worry well what exactly is cold fusion the it involves U several nuclear reactions that produce nuclear products produces heat it produces only a small amount of radiation and that's been a big bit of a problem because um there's not enough radiation there to account for the heat nor for the nuclear products and people uh say well it's because there's no radiation being produced and that's not true it's very likely that the radiation is so weak that it cannot get out of the apparatus but when people have looked for the radiation inside the apparatus they have in fact seen it so the beauty of the phenomena is that it does not produce radiation like hot Fusion does and and as a researcher I very much appreciate that but uh it does make it difficult to explore the phenomena uh without that diagnostic tool and finally uh the documented nuclear products are helium 4 tridium and various transmutation products and I'll show you some of the evidence for that and it occurs only in solid environments or in living cells now I'm really grateful that I don't have to apologize for that last one uh to this group normally when I say living cells people uh roll their eyes and figure I've lost it but I I will show you some evidence for that that the the prospect of U living cells being involved in nuclear reactions has been known and claimed for the last 60 years and the evidence is growing of very strongly now thanks to modern technology modern tools the other um issue is if you have a phenomena that can only be made one single way then um you might be L to agree that it's real but if you can make it a number of different ways then that gives you confidence because nature very seldom does anything just one way and in fact there are four different ways in which these uh nuclear reactions can be produced well science has a number of criteria that it uses to judge whether or not a claim is correct and reproducibility is one of these and that's very reasonable but uh very seldom is U the sentence completed by the right people and that is in fact what happened to C Fusion after puns and fleshman made their announcement a number of us were successful in making in duplicating what they had claim but we weren't the right people the right people were MIT and Caltech Caltech or MIT put together a very quickly rather crude cimeter they studied the effect for a while uh published the results and then had a big party uh congratulating themselves on having shut down ponds inflation it was only a little later that the original data came out and we discovered that the original data had in fact shown excess energy and that they had without telling anybody shifted everything to zero well when this was uh discovered g malov Who was the director of public relations at MIT resigned and discussed and he describes his experience in U fire from Ice the book that he read book that he wrote the the other um people that who were the proper people were Caltech they did a pretty good job they it was pretty extensive the calorimeters weren't too bad uh they worked very hard they came up short they they could not produce the effect and they came up with an idea or a suggestion as that why Pon inflation had screwed up and then they use this information to um essentially um show how incompetent and um how fraudulent may be uh certainly how unscientific Pond implment were so drum them out of the scientific core it was ironic later on when we discovered how cold fusion works and how to make it work on uh in a reproducible way people went back and reexamined the work that was done at calch and discovered that they had done it in a way that they could not possibly have made any excess energy they were not using the right conditions it would not have mattered if they had been lucky enough to get good Palladium which was one of the right the problem in in making it work um it just would not have worked and I'll show you the reason why a little later so but the damage was already done the other uh another criteria is consistent patterns of behavior that means that if you are lucky enough to make something work and then the next guy is lucky enough to make it work you should both see the same behavior you should both see nature behave the same way and in fact uh that has been shown over and over again in cold fusion and finally a plausible explanation for some reason physicists really are married to Theory they really do like to explain things and they could not explain cold fusion and so therefore cold fusion was wrong well let's look at some of the evidence this is what started with all this is the uh results that pond and fman published this is obtained from a electrolytic cell electrolytic cell consists of a piece of padium uh surrounded by a coil of platinum wire this is all uh immersed in heavy water v2o with a little lithium dissolved in it to make it conductive a voltage is placed between the two such as a negative electrode the 2o is decomposed terarium is formed on the surface and reacts with the padium oxygen of course is formed on the the Platinum eventually excess energy excess energy is made on in in or on this the uh surface of this PL padium now if you look at the data you'll see several things first of all although the number are not very big they are certainly well in excess of the air of their calorimeter and you can imagine their calimer was analyzed very thoroughly by various people and they came to the conclusion that the calimer was in fact accurate enough to make the claim you'll notice also that the magnitude of the power that they're producing increases with applied current and it also increases with the size of the sample later work shows that that is a characteristic of the phenomena and everybody sees that now this is a plot of showing the number of times this many watts were produced by studies uh done this is a total of 150 studies and in this particular case I me people very seldom study one piece of padium and so they many times studied a variety of piece of plaum this is the wattage that they reported out of their best sample and so there's several things you can get out of this plot first of all you can see that it's been reproduced quite a number of times and this was in 2007 there's more now um you can also see that although most of the reproducibility was in the low uh wattage range a significant number of significant Watts were produced occasionally this amount of power is impossible to miss so so air is no longer an issue but the other thing is the shape of this curve now let me explain to how that shape originates the um the effect of does not occur throughout the sample it occurs only in special very rare randomly created regions in the sample I call this a nuclear active environment presumably the more of these sites are present the more energy You' be able to make so this these samples would have had only a few of these acus sites and these samples would have had a large number of active sites and this becomes a probability distribution showing that the probability of having a large number of sites were very low and the probability of having a few sites were very high and of course this extrapolates to zero having a very high uh probability and that's why it's been very difficult to reproduce one of the reasons this is another uh very important Insight this work was done by Mike mcub at SRI they measured the stochiometry that is the D to PD ratio the amount of cerium that was in the Palladium I might point out that the material here is a duod it's a compound of berium in other words a compound of hydrogen it's a face Center cuic compound in which the um all of the metal sites are occupied but a number of the non-metal sites are vacant and the vacancy is dependent upon the treatment and the conditions so this is the 88 and this is uh near one so the what this shows is that if the composition of the Palladium has not reached a critical value you get no heat but once it reaches that critical value the amount of energy that it makes by this nuclear process increases well Palladium doesn't like to get to that composition it takes a very special Palladium to do that and what experienced early in the history was that Palladium was gotten purely by accident you just happened to order something and it was good and you used it and you were happy and you order it again and it didn't work so it was pure chance now people know uh to a large extent how to make padium that will in fact allow that much ferium to be loaded into it here's another uh pattern of behavior this shows the excess energy uh Watts square cm of the area of the cathode against the current density in other words the number of amps going through the cell divided by the area of the cathode you'll notice that regardless of the shape and size of the sample they all extrapolate to a similar number here which means that even if you have a sample that is capable of making excess energy you you've been lucky unless you apply enough current to it it's not going to show any excess energy and that was one of the problems with the early studies of Caltech they did not apply enough current some years after Pon and fleshman's announcement uh AATA in Japan had a brilliant idea he said well let's U see if Plum black very finely divided Palladium will work so he en capsulated padium block this is nano siiz Palladium powder into Palladium and then use this is a cathode and electrolytic cell by making the detarium on the surface it would diffuse through build up a pressure inside and so the essentially you're exposing the pl powder simply to high pressure of material the electrolytic part of it is simply there to generate the high pressure they found that um they got excess energy a large amount of excess energy like MRI at SRI replicated that uh design and and uh the effect and this is his data that shows the uh excess energy obtained as a function of the amount of power being applied in other words essentially the pressure that's being created inside um for detarium and this is for light hydrogen it does not nothing happens for light hydrogen to speak of it's only the heavy hydrogen that works this is called the gas loading technique now and it is a technique that is being developed for commercial application because it requires no input energy it works better if you heat it but if it makes energy it will self heed all you have to do is put a good enough insulator around it and and you would not have to put any energy in whatsoever so it becomes in principle a source of energy without any input well the big issue was what if this is a nuclear reaction what are the nuclear products and people know the nuclear products from hot Fusion are trium and hel trium and neutrons um those are the two that can be detected the helium four and the proteum go off and they're not detected but they're the other products of the of the pair neutrons were not found in fact there's a great effort was spent trying to find neutrons everybody almost everybody has a neutron detector so they put it to work hunting for neutrons neutrons could not be found so what could be the nuclear product well helium is the obvious choice but it was recognized that by conventional models if it were helium a gamma had to be given off and of course a GMA wasn't being given off because people weren't dead so efforts were made to look for the helium and a number quite a number of efforts were made to find helium and they did in fact find helium but here's two that made a correlation between the amount of uh of energy and the amount of helium this is the amount of helium that should be detected that is the helium to Watt second or the amount of helium to to amount of energy U that should be based upon the mass change and going from two deuterons to a helium and this is the data these are two different data sets the open circle uh points were made first they have a somewhat larger scatter that was done with an isop parabolic calorimeter later uh somewhat better work was done with a c calorimeter somewhat less air but you'll notice that they are in basic agreement but they're all lower than what's expected they're lower on average by a factor of two and that fits with what how we understand the process to work the process takes place on the surface of the cathode the helium made there has two choices it can diffuse Inward and be captured and not detected or can be it can diffuse outward towards the surface it will go off then as a gas and then be detected um by the later analysis and there's a 50/50 chance of it going in either direction and this fits perfectly with that concept three is also made trium as you all know is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen it um has a half life of 12.3 years it does not exist in nature except what Little's left over after ad a bomb test and a little bit that's made in volcanoes but nevertheless it it is not a common material for contamination we at Los Alamos made an effort to look for trian I was in a group that were populated by experts in trium for other purposes I might add but nevertheless um they knew tridium when they saw it and we discovered that the trium was made only after a delay similar delay was always required to make the helium I might add these nuclear reactions do not occur without an investment of a certain amount of patients nature is like that you know I mean it's it really makes you work for it and but once the uh reaction starts the trium content grows quite dramatically and then quits and then it slowly goes away this was a similar kind of measurement made at Texas A&M they found that also they had a delay but when they increased the current the rate of production went up and they increased the current again and it went up again similar to the way helium is made or the Heat's made it's sensitive to the current you can see here the cell running at the same time showed absolutely nothing so the production of helium and the production of trium match one another in their characteristics Trum has also been made by the gas discharge technique not just by the electrolytic here this is worked by Tom cler Tom clater uh started this work at Los alos National Laboratory and um was supported by the laboratory for many years before the doe got wind of it and now he's working on his own in his own laboratory on his own nickel uh But continuing to explore this phenomena where you simply place a low press padium or low pressure dyum into a container um you have electrodes inside place a voltage between the two electrodes and you get a discharge if the cathode is of a made of a particular material you'll get trium and the kind of material is very very important only certain materials work and some do not and here's an example of a material that worked and here's an example of material that did not work this measurement is made uh in cp2 while the process is going on while the discharge is going on using the radioactive decay of the trium as a diagnostic transmutation is also uh one of the um products that's confounded explanation to some degree and that um that evidence has been growing steadily but it's a it's an evidence that is more difficult to justify to prove because there's always a possibility of contamination and the amount is always very very small but here's a study that was done at uh Mishi heavy Industries in Japan they created a sandwich that consisted of alternate layers of thin layers of Palladium and calcium oxide deposited on a piece of Palladium about a millimeter thick and they heated it slightly and pass theerum through the sandwich um between a pressurized gas into a vacuum they had an x-ray Beam on this side so that they could interogate the surface and see what was happening to uh the elements in the surface well then they deposited various uh elements on the surface by various techniques and these elements were either barium cium or strum when they put barium on they discovered that they that samarium grew in the barium went away and the samarium grew in and in this case because barium has several Isotopes um that don't match samarium they could see the abnormal isotopic ratio being growing in uh in the Samarian signal so there's no doubt that they were converting barium to Samarian well that requires six deuterons to go in to the barrier and they have to go in simultaneously you can't go in one at a time because then you get a whole string of different uh transmutation products they saw only one when the cesium was used they got prmium and when the stonum was used they got mum in this case four had to go in this case four had to go in this is similar to what other people see but when they it's done uh in a more or less General environment where there are a lot of different elements you don't know which ones being uh producing the product and so it's a little more ambiguous this study is not ambiguous it was it's being replicated now uh with uh growing success in Japan and uh attempt was made at NRL here in the United States that was not very successful let's talk a little bit about U living systems and their possibility of making nuclear reactions this is work it's done in Russia and the Ukraine they um created a cell in which a a bacteria was placed and they had to choose a bacteria that would grow in heavy water and there not a lot of those but they found one and they mixed in with that heavy water manganese sulfate and they looked for the production of iron 57 and they used a very clever technique they use the mossar effect um Cobalt 57 gives off a gamma that is uh absorbed by Iron 57 if the if the energies match exactly and the energies can be match by producing a doer effect on the gamma ray by vibrating the source and they were able to show the iron 57 growing in over time they got the reaction rate uh totally unambiguous there is no other uh element that has that ability to absorb that gamate it's totally unambiguous the only issue is whether you believe them and this hasn't been replicated so that that's always an OP I'm not very likely option but nevertheless U that's the only uh back door that a skeptic has they used light water it did not work they used something other than magnesium sulfate it did not work well then they got the idea all right so let's say we can make a transmutation reaction and using bacteria perhaps they will also change the radioactive decay rate now they have a big incentive there they have chob and somehow or another they got to get a rid of all the radioactivity that's going to take many many years to Decay away so if they could speed up that by using bacteria they would have a real winner and that's apparently what they have now they have this is a graph of the number of days against the intensity of the radiation logarithmic value of the intensity of radiation for a mixture of barium and lanum that would typically come out of a nuclear reactor this is radioactive it normally decays at this rate and in the bacteria it decayed at this rate so clearly the bacteria were having an effect on the Half Light they did the same with czm 137 which is also a gamma emitter has a 30-year halflife they were able to speed it up by a factor of five they found that the the particular bacteria that they used was important and the more uh varieties of bacteria were in the culture the faster it would work by conventional think thinking this is abely impossible the original work was done using heavy hydrogen now uh thanks to Rossy U and I don't know if any uh okay anyway he has brought to the attention of the scientific world the value of light hydrogen and before that pantelli also was working in the LI hydrogen field but was fairly ignored he was using U solid pieces of nickel whereas Rossi went to find Powers Rossi increased the reaction rate production rate of heat by orders of magnitude but this is the data that uh pantelli U published which is readily available rossy's data is not so easily available so I I'm not using it but here is the energy that's applied to a rod of nickel that is in a pressurized hydrogen atmosphere this Rod of nickel if nothing's done to it its temperature would follow this line here this is a temperature difference between the inside and the outside of the of the container but if they've treated it in their special way this is the temperature that you get and this difference is the extra energy that's being made by the nuclear reaction within the nickel well when he did this he also discovered that radiation was produced and a very clean very uh well documented uh radiation was being emitted from his cell Rossi is seeing also radiation and has to put lead in to protect the people around uh from the consequences of that radiation but apparently the head light water system makes easily detectable radiation whereas the heavy water system does not so there's a difference in the energy of the radiation but I would argue not a difference in kind this this radiation is generated by photons well so what's the present situation I mean other than the fact that normal science doesn't believe this and not have to point that out it's too depressing um but from our point of view the claims have been replicated hundreds of times in Laboratories all over the world using six different methods that should be enough to get people's attention when would think the power production has reached commercial levels at this point um people have been having a hard time believing rosi but that's another issue Laboratories are exploring the effect in at least eight countries now and several that are getting increasingly interested there have been a series of conferences held starting in 1990 uh the international conferences of C fusion um the 17th of that series is being held in South Korea in August of this year South Korea wants to get into the game Russia Italy Japan China are already heavily in the game a plausible explanation has been proposed and we'll talk about that a little bit later and this is an ideal power source that has the potential to change society as we know it because the cold fusion phenomena can be made to occur in a small system it could be a system that every house could have that system would not possibly be the size of a small refrigerator it would supply all the power that you would need to heat cook lights and charge your Prius so it would provide you with all the energy that you would possibly need for practically nothing because it uses just light hydrogen nickel or perhaps the later versions might use heavy hydrogen but getting heavy hydrogen is a trivial uh operation and it's also clean it doesn't produce any U contamination so um of course it would take over from all the other power sources which of course would cause them great consternation and that's part of the reason I suspect that people aren't jumping on board so why should you care well I mentioned a few of the reasons we need energy we're using energy that's causing all kinds of harm um the energy costing us a tremendous amount of money we're even willing to risk the food supply to save a few bucks uh instead of buying oil we buy ethanol and modern society will eventually come to an end without another energy source CU we will eventually run out of the present carbon based energy will run out of the present uranium based energies and solar and wind simply are not big enough to do the job so Society will in fact come to an end and that's the only justification that has been made to support the hot Fusion program people knew that it was going to be very very difficult and very expensive but there was no other choice you either try to make that work or Society eventually goes down well now cusions come along and change the equation well now we get to Theory um theory for me is is is an awkward subject um there are hundreds of theories a few of them have bubbled up to the to the surface of the cauldron and are getting more or less um you unversal attention all these theories have been developed by physicists when I try to explain their uh theories they are not too happy because I'm not a physicist and what's worse I don't think any of them are correct and that might be the real reason why they're not too happy but uh I I won't go into the various theories that have been proposed and explain to you why I think each one is wrong because there is a universal reason all of these theories are applied to the lattice itself for example they're all applied to the padium deride structure a chemical lce is not like a plasma chemical lattice has rules of its own the electrons nuclei all have roles that they have assumed in that lattice and it's those roles that have created that lattice and we know that the lattice unchanged is does not support a nuclear reaction so some kind of change has to take place in that lattice and I argue that such a change is impossible in a chemical lattice because the chemical lattice the conditions that created that lce will fight that change and every chemist knows this to be true obviously not every physicist knows this but the whatever the explanation is it has to explain certain facts the facts are the helium four must be produced without significant radiation so the problem is how is that energy dissipated it has to come out into the lattice but not as energetic particles the energy in nuclear products uh te the U and detected radiation are not neutrons and they result from either the light hydrogen or the heavy hydrogen being present both of them work most many of the theories will not explain how the light hydrogen can work trium is produced without significant neutrons or radiation under the same conditions and the same environment uh as is the helium so they obviously have a relationship to one another in the explanation helium 3 is not produced as a primary product which would result quite naturally from a PD fusure helium 3 is seen as a Decay product of trian though transmutation occurs when either V or H are present and the nuclear reactions occur only in special sites so these are the conditions that have to be addressed and most of the theories simply ignore one or more of these conditions and that would be another reason why they have been unsuccessful so I gave a considerable amount of thought to this and ask myself well okay it can't occur in the lce it can't occur in the IAL system where could it occur it has to occur in something that is present no matter what method is used no matter what materials used no matter whether it's light hydrogen or heavy hydrogen it has to be something that is universally present in all of the experiments that work but not in the lce well the only feature that is universal are the presence of cracks for voids now that seems crazy because for a long time in the field people uh felt the cracks were bad they allowed the the materium to leak out or the plum and so they they were ignored or people were trying to avoid them the cracks really are the only local that could support it and what I propose is that the crack has to have a particular size and when it is has that size it allows the nuclei of either a deuteron or a proton to come into that and set up a series of let's say proton electron proton electron with the electron be between each of the nuclei thus hiding or reducing the coolon barrier now that electron has to have very special properties and that's the only thing that is novel this is total consist normal physics except for that electron and its characteristics so something new has happened has been discovered is required to make whole Fusion work but if we accept that electron being present then we can make some predictions if you have that series and all of them are protons this will condense down by giving off x-rays or protons if you wish um because this is these are produced by a Resonance of these U the structure those protons are coherent and so we have an x-ray laser evidence for that has already been seen in some of the data but as this condenses down gives off more and more energy it eventually becomes a deuteron or a series of deuterons if deuterons are present they condense down to helium and if you have a mixture of deuterons and protons they condense down the trium now I won't try to go into the details of this those are slowly being developed I have several papers that describe it uh but um great deal more work has to be done before this can be justified but right now from my point of view it's the only explanation that accounts for every single observation and it's not consistent it's not inconsistent with anything fundamental such as the laws of thermodynamics or being uh having a nuclear reaction occur in a lattice itself okay but in summary lenr is real to be a source of clean energy it may provide a way to decontaminated soil gives new insights into the nuclear interaction the role of the nutrino I haven't talked about the role of the nutrino but this has a direct bearing on the standard model of nuclear Behavior lenr may be a source of coherent X-rays and it raises questions about how science evaluates new discoveries because of a discovery this important can be Ed this long something is desperately wrong with the way the system works thank you okay we've got 10 minutes before we need to be out of here but let's take let's uh two or three questions and uh okay Jeff you want to all right yeah let's make it just three and then we'll need to close it out hi my name is David uh question for you mention about cracks and C cavities uh any idea in terms of order magnitude the size of these cracks like is that around like 10 to 50 nanom or well the the size of the crack um is something that'll have to be determined they have to be small enough that they would not allow the hydrogen molecule ENT because we know the hydrogen molecule does not produce an in reaction they have to be big enough that a single nucleus of hydrogen can go in there and be retained and not interact with it in such a way as it would in a chemical state so I'm I'm guessing something in the less than 10 nanometers less than 10 Nom okay thank you yeah along those lines you see a lot of parallels with catalysis reactions here in all cases of surface reactions and catalysis eventually you have a deactivation component so is there any evidence of this especially when dealing with these padium and nickels um hinted toward the surface area effect of the nickel because you increased in rate with surface area so if there is some surface interactions is there any deactivation over time um well I don't know which kind of deactivation you're talking about there's the deactivation that occurs as the uh photons are given off that's the way in which the energy is dissipated from the nuclear reaction itself but now within the the lattice all kinds of chemical interactions are taking place and one of the the things you have to realize will control the rate of nuclear reaction is the access of of derium or hydrogen to that site and so now it has to diffuse through it has to interact uh with the surrounding chemistry in the in a conventional way now the the electrolytic cells typically die they they do not live forever and so you can say that there is a deactivation of some sort but I think that's caused by the destruction of the necessary cracks uh Charles Lucas my son and I have developed an electr a new electrodynamic model of the atom and the nucleus and we explored this question as to where the uh cold fusion is occurred and in the model uh that we have for the atom uh we use a ring electron which is a finite size electron and uh we were able to produce more Atomic data for hydrogen uh more emission spectr lines than any Quantum model has ever produced before we produce we were able to predict 6 for emission lines in the extreme ultraviolet and the standard direct Quantum model predicts zero of those lines so we were looking to see uh where this might occur and we thought the cold fusion was occurring at the atomic shell level for electrons and our electrons are magnetic and we measured the strength of the uh magnetic force for various Shelf sizes uh and when you add the last uh electrons or charged particles to the shell and we found that the some of the larger shells are extremely strong strong enough to produce nuclear fusion and so we we think although we've not done a whole lot of work we think that that this may be occurring in some of the larger shells of the atom because of the magnetic properties of the electron and uh your crack also kind of supports that idea because you've got to be able to get access of these products that you want to fuse together to the atom at the right place and uh so you need you need that kind of access and you're probably going to fill it up after a while with some of these products uh so that you won't be able to do it anymore on that atom cuz you you'll capture some of this material and it's going to take your excess energy into the atomic shell well you're seeing um radiation that's in the neighborhood that um Randy Mills has proposed results from hydrino formation do you know that that's not the source say that again Brandy Mills uh are you familiar with hydo Brandy Mills the hydrino uh he says gives off radiation in the extreme alter out yes and it sounds like it's in the same ballpark that you're looking at his his model is um different for the electron he has a a spherical model for electron where it precesses as it goes around yeah yeah you have different models different theories just addressing the experimental observation that you saw and and the issue would be whether you and he are seeing the same thing experimentally he has one explanation you have another right and and so you might want to get together with him and find out whether you're looking at the same thing or not but the other issue too is that if you have a special electron that special electron has to be able to do two things it has to be able to um overcome the coolon barrier and you're claiming that yours will but then after that happens the energy has to be dissipated in a way that is invisible to people who are doing the experiment and we're claiming that the shell is bound uh magnetically and has the ability to absorb that energy well I don't know which shell you're talking about but if you make hel four uh you have shells and they cannot take up 24 or 23.8 me so you you have for each helium that's made you have to dissipate 23.8 M somehow or another you you may be able to pass that on to the lattice through this magnetic well that that's one of the uh theories that have been developed trying to do precisely that but that's a real challenge which I don't think has been met okay well I just wanted to suggest that might be a possibility sure thank [Applause] you e