Grusch vs Clapper - Is the Age of Disclosure Starting to Break Apart?

Transcript

Hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO podcast. My name as always is Andy and for this kind of news roundup and I look at the beginning of 2026 which is already strange, exciting, frustrating, all of the above. Um and we're what 10 days in. I've got the wonderful Pavle from the Sequoactivo podcast. Pavo, welcome back, mate.

>> Thank you for having me again, Andy. Uh we should do this a series now. >> We we should get you get you on more often. Listen, I like honestly, Pavo, I like having you on because um I don't agree with everything you say on the topic. And I think that's incredibly healthy that it's not just a case of we both think the same things and you're you're pretty outspoken on on X.

You're happy to go in and say, "No, I don't agree with that." Or, "Do you know what? I've got this opinion. It might not be popular, but it is what it is." And I like that. And I also appreciate you're as cold as me because you're sitting there with your jacket on uh and I'm in the shed with a heated blanket. Uh, we're what? There's like a an 8 hour time difference between us here, but we are both Well, I'm I'm like minus 6, I think, in the in the >> Oh, no. You're you're you're way too much, bro.

I uh And we're talking Celsius. I'm like 10 9 Celsius right now, which is >> Oh god, that's tropical. That is tropical >> for you. It's >> I would have shorts shorts and t-shirt, sunglasses on, like suntan lotion. I burn.

Scottish people burn. >> I live near the desert and near the beach, so it shouldn't be this cold. Um, I don't know. >> Yeah, it's the controlling the weather probably. I mean, a joke, but you never know.

I'll stick that on the the YouTube title and maybe it'll get a few more thousand views. Um, Andy and Pavl, who's controlling the weather, UFOs or someone else? >> The flatearthers. I'm kidding. >> Yeah, the [laughter] the flatearthers and the Sasquatch people are controlling the weather. This will be fantastic for the algorithm if we just hit all the I said this last week where I was like if I just hit like six, seven Kardashians, Taylor Swift, Minecraft, Roblox early on, it'll just like 12 million views overnight, folks.

Oh, yeah. >> Um, but there's a lot to talk about, Pavo. There is a lot. Um, and even more so since I asked you to come on. So, you cover stuff on a real regular daily basis.

You know, you're you're pretty quick proper journalist on this topic. And I know you've been on the podcast before, but very very quickly, what's your background if someone's listening to this or watching this and they're not sure who Pavl is? >> I am a sports journalist from Tijuana. I grew up in Tijuana, but I was born in Walara in Mexico. >> Um, I did sports journalism, specifically football, the real football, not that astronic [ __ ] that people play in the US. Sorry Americans.

>> Um, >> most of the audience. Yeah, sorry folks. >> Sorry. Uh, and I I know I'm gonna get [ __ ] for this, but I don't care really. Um, so for 15 years, I covered that.

And in 2021, I decided to open this podcast. Uh, initially it was going to be about consciousness and psychedelic substances and prevention mo more likely than just like promoting because um, I went through a really difficult time and I wanted to share that experience with people what I went through. I also went through really weird experiences during that time and even before that uh as a teenager and there's a lot of stuff there that made me think for a while that I was going crazy. Um, and it and it turned out that I didn't. Uh, so when I opened the podcast, I about two years ago, I decided to just start doing more regular um, programming uh, and videos.

And I completely left my career as a sports journalist. Um, because I wanted to do this full-time. And now that I'm doing it, um, there's a lot that's happened so far that, uh, is getting weirder by the minute. So that's that's about it. >> Yeah.

And if people want to hear a little bit more background, jump on Pavl's first appearance on the podcast. But Pavl, I like having you on because we're going to talk about a lot of news that's going on, some of the stuff that's happening online. Um, do you know it's funny I say that everything happens online now. It's not as if things are just exclusively. >> It's a different reality.

>> It totally is. It's like, you know, like you see Wall-E and they're all plugged in their computers and they're all fat and they're all just going around and >> that's that's very much where we're heading towards. Like >> Yeah. Um, at least those people were warm. >> Um, but listen, I'm going to let the I'm very rarely do this, but as the guest, where do you want to start? Pick a piece of news and let's go for it.

I've got a lot of topics down here. >> I think that Grush um calling out Clapper and also the film Age of Disclosure. He called it out. That's the way I saw it. I think that would be a good a good way to start, I think.

>> Yeah, definitely. So, um, David Gush on Megan Kelly show um it was like a two-part interview. There's about what 12 minutes of actual interview if you go between both parts. Um but yeah, I agree with you. He um made some interesting comments.

Clapper is in the age of disclosure. Um major name in the UFO topic and the way Grush per put it across was Clapper was a major get for the documentary. Everyone thought that when they first saw his name attached to it. But he's very koi and aloof and he sort of plays off in the in the documentary the few comments he makes that he's kind of aware of this legacy program. You know, it's like, yeah, I've heard about it and it's important and people, you know, look into this stuff.

Grush more or less just went, "No, no, no, no, no. This guy was managing the legacy program. This guy put people in place to manage parts of the legacy program." So yeah, he threw a bit of a spanner in that in that um in those works there. Um and again, you've you've you've mentioned Pavle. I called this out when when David Grush says quite early on, I've not seen the Age of Disclosure.

Um I found that really interesting. Yeah. A few clips because I felt when they set the the piece up, Megan Kelly was almost introducing it as you're going to come on and talk about Age of Disclosure. as if they expected Gush to be like, "Yeah, it's fantastic. It's brilliant.

It's this and and he he just goes, um, yeah, I've not seen it. I've seen clips, but and that I think surprised me, surprised probably Megan Kelly and the crew." What was your take on that? Really surprised at Gush not having seen it. >> Well, I I already knew a bit about what was going on in the background with uh Dan and the whole way in which the movie was put together uh when Grush said that. And um >> expand on that. going to >> Yeah.

Let's just say that uh Dan um didn't exactly make a lot of friends while he was doing that. I I would guess >> Dan Farah. >> Yes, Dan Farah. I would guess it's because of the secrecy that he had to keep. Um there was a lot of people that probably weren't happy with that.

Um and to me, um it's pretty clear, and I don't know if you agree, that this film is not telling the full story of what's going on. It's just telling a part of it. And in my estimation, I think that Grush wants for the full thing to come out, not just for parts of it. And that's one of the reasons I support what he does. Um, I think that Matthew Brown and Dylan Borland are on the same boat on that.

And there are other folks within this movement that uh want it to be in a controlled manner. They fear societal disruption. And uh we just saw like a couple of weeks ago Dylan Borland himself said that the societal disruption or the like catastrophic aspect of disclosure wouldn't be against like the population. It would be against the uh established institutions and he said that the petro dollar was going to be at risk if if total disclosure happened. And I think that's where the discrepancy lies between these camps that are both seemingly pro- disclosure, but each of them want them in a certain way.

And anybody who tries to do it in in another way that uh gets in the way of their way, um sorry for the mouthful. I think that's uh that's where the problem lies. I believe >> I um really struggled Pavl to get people to watch this for me who aren't into the topic. Um and uh I I asked quite a few people. I said this back at the time when I was going to review it that had a few folks who were going to watch it for me.

I've got one friend who did I'll jump in and try and find her stuff while we speak. Um, I actually yesterday was speaking to to a friend of mine who I work with. Um, and she she listens to this podcast now because I worked with her and she's picked it up in the last year or so quite into the topic now. And she said she fell asleep during the documentary. Um, she said and she's not someone who's entrenched in the topic.

She literally knows about it because of working with me and and listening to this or watching this. So, hi Donna if you're listening. Um, but uh, she said she didn't learn anything new that she hadn't heard on this. I imagine anyone who watches you, Pavo, will not have learned anything new from the documentary. Now, you can see it wasn't for us.

It wasn't aimed at us. I still struggle to think that most of the audience who purchased that documentary were not the UFO community. >> Um, I I really I really do believe that. I think most of the public will have picked up on it was the social media side of things and that's just where we are I think in 2026 now um getting the year right. Um what what do you think actually let me start here you mentioned it wasn't the whole story that's something I definitely agree with.

It certainly seemed one element of the story in in some ways it was an extension of Luis Alexando's experience and his story but it really seemed to miss off a lot of the the OSAP background any detail on ATIP. Um I I suppose the argument there would be well how far back do you go and what directions do you go when you're covering a 90-minute documentary? um that I I'll say again it was very dry and I think a lot of folks have said that in terms of content even for folks who weren't um initiated but where do you go with that documentary? What would you like to have seen included? What what's missing from it if you had to pick maybe three things or four things >> for me? Uh the three central things are yeah the crashes. Yeah. But also contact and abduction experiences. I think that should have been covered even though I know there's people that say, "No, it's too soon.

[ __ ] that." Um I I think it's a disservice to people to uh tell them, "Oh, no, you're not ready for this." Especially if it's something that important to know. Like there's people that have been reporting for decades that they're being abducted and say we're children, many of them. That's something real that people have reported uh for decades and that needs to be discussed and the fact that Dan made this decision far again to not include that for example that was a mistake in my opinion and also not including the whole uh how put off Stargate uh group that has been doing this stuff also since the 70s I think um that was also a mistake. I think those three things, if you would have included all those three and and I'm sorry, also add the the whole skinwalker ranch connection, I think that that would have been a little bit more um acceptable for most people. And I know that it's a lot.

I get it. I mean, it would have been like a five hour film, you know, if >> Y [snorts] >> Yeah, I know that. I get that. And maybe that's why because Dan is also thinking about selling the film and making it digestible for people. I think that in terms of uh sales, it did do well.

So Danfara did get what he wanted initially, you know, um and and he has a lot of uh control over many IP uh related to this topic as well. So >> um >> I don't know. is just maybe he's gonna release it in different parts, different types of media, but just release this and hype it up as you did, as much as you did, and not deliver uh really because it just painted a really dire picture of what's going on. And I don't think that's all that's going on. You know, >> this documentary was hyped and sold on the cast and who was going to be in it.

Perhaps less about even what was going to be said, but wow, look at all these folks. Rubio, Gillibrand, Clapper. Do you think if they had included say a 25 minute section on abductions that those people would have sat in that documentary still? >> I guess it depends on the abduction experience you talk about because they're they're so varied. Um, >> or even even experiencers if you've got some >> probably if you if you had sudden if you had uh done an interview with Dr. John Blitz for example, I think that that would have made a difference I think because of his credentials and everything.

Um because that was the angle, right? Like they wanted credentialed people from the government. This guy was part of the group that uh some of his uh people I I believe were believe um involved in nuclear capabilities and right after 911. So this guy's like the real deal. So I I would have included John Blitch for example. He's big in robotics and that was one of the books he was involved in robotics and 911 recoveries and the the World Trade Center aftermath like immediately he was down there um with teams and that's his other expertise.

So yeah, I'd agree in that sense. I I'm that is one where I do I've had I've had many disagreements with folks over the years on I see why the public aren't at that stage yet to have that conversation to see that move the needle because I don't see the conversation we're having right now. And I still think the biggest thing we've had since 2017 or even maybe ever in the UFO topic, top three at least, is is David Grush coming forward in the position he was in and seeing what he said. Let me just tell you very quickly because I've not read this out before, Pavle. Um, so my mate Gareth, um, I've got a couple of Gareths.

I don't think this one will be listening, but I asked him to check out age of disclosure for me. So this is what he said. Um, I've long been a believer in UFOs. I went through a phase where I was borderline obsessive about them. But as work and family pressures have increased over the years, that obsession has softened into a steady curiosity.

I still want to know what's going on, just without the burning compulsive need for answers. I saw an advert for the documentary pop up on Facebook. I was massively hooked during the 2023 Senate hearings on UAPs and the shift in tone from the US government. So, I went in with interest and a bit of hope. The documentary is slick and well made, but for me, there was a lot of smoke and not much fire.

It didn't really add anything substantial to what's already out there. There was a lot of I'd love to tell you specifics. I know someone who saw and pilots told me, but not much in the way of actual evidence. Um, it goes on for quite a bit and then says, "All in all, a stylish documentary, but lacking the substance needed to make real waves." So, there's someone who's like not heavy into the UFO topic or involved in it massively. Doesn't listen or watch this.

Um, and and I know Gareth, but he's had a passing interest. she's watched it and went. So, I think that's that's been a big big thing for me with it. Um, I agree focused in on that one angle, but like going back to that experience thing, I I don't feel the public's in a place to have that conversation, but then it's it's how you I think there's a gap needs bridged to get to it. I still feel from where we are now, there's a missing link that we have to fill in and have something in there.

>> Can I push back on that a little bit? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. >> Um I I think that uh the majority of people really uh do have memories that are uh repressed about stuff that they experienced when they were little, even even older.

And I and I I disagree there. Like if if people who are experiencers start talking about this more publicly and open openly, a lot of those repressed memories are going to come back. And um I think that it's going to have a different effect. I don't think that they're not ready. I think that that a lot of those memories are dormant and because I I always use this example.

Do you remember? Oh, well, you you were you were probably a kid or maybe not even alive by then, but uh back in the 80s when Whitley Streamer released his book, the effect that that cover had on people, I think that something similar could happen if somebody in like a really public setting like one of those films uh comes out and talks about their their experience. I think that could have a potentially a similar effect to that cover uh from Whitley's book. And again, um you you think that people probably are not ready. I I honestly disagree there because I think most have had experiences. They just don't talk about them.

>> I I I don't think most have. It's hard to put a number on it either way, right? It could be a a big minority, but if you look at going public, what does that mean now? So going public 25, 30 years ago meant major mainstream news like in the UK like kind of 6:00 9:00 with the two big news times in the UK. I think that's gone now that you news is 24 hours. 24-hour cycle. You can pick up your phone and find out what's happening instantly.

I've got a few major news um organizations. I get alerts as I'm sure most people do. So I can see instantly once something's happened you've just had. And this this segus a little bit. Um we don't have to move completely into it, but American Alchemy gets millions of views.

Okay, Joe Rogan millions of views. Experiencers, Chris Bledsoe has been on those shows. So that is mainstream. And yet it's not moving the needle outside again of certain communities just having those discussions. And even looking at Bledso stuff, which I want to talk to you about anyway, so we can we can move on or keep in the general.

We can jump all over. [ __ ] it. Who cares? Um, with the Bledo stuff that's even within the UFO community caused a lot of [ __ ] and I've seen you getting involved in conversations and I've I made some thoughts on it as well. seen a lot of people online arguing back and forward where you've got someone sharing their experience but it seems to have maybe grown arms and legs as they say here and moved on a little bit since then. So maybe we have had folks share their experiences.

I mean streamers pretty mainstream. Most folk know that it was the basis of the [ __ ] South Park pilot show. Um, I've mentioned on here many times, you know, that the whole anal probe joke is from Whitley Streamer's experience. So, I don't know how much more mainstream it would get. And again, you make the point, age of disclosure, if you got it on something like that.

Well, yeah, but who's watching that? Again, I'd say it's 90%, maybe more, the UFO community watches it, who knows this stuff and it's already for or against it. So you would need to have experiencers in Congress standing up sharing experiences. But if you've got testimony in Congress of people standing there saying, "I worked on craft. I know people who worked on craft. There's been retrievals.

There's been bodies." And that still doesn't get the general public at large. I don't see the experiencers being in Congress and speaking about it is going to do that because it's almost like a subset of the topic. I think this is why probably uh James Fox's um new film and all he's doing in Brazil with the Virginia case. I think that's this is why uh it's so important um because he's talking about um the beings and uh the biologics and all this stuff. And um and yeah, I agree with you.

Um experiencers will probably not testify in public yet. I think it has to do with stigma as well. Um, but I still do think that, uh, there's a lot of people, um, I maintain this, that have had experiences, maybe not abductions per se, but weird stuff that has happened to them. >> I think the majority of us have experienced some some of that stuff. And >> um, when when you see somebody like who's brave enough, like for example, I I told you Dr.

Blitch, you see somebody like that with those credentials talking about that stuff and you've also experienced some weird [ __ ] Um, I think it would give people courage to start talking about it more and see it more normally. And another thing that I wanted to add to that was that um, the reality is that yeah, the the UFO community and people who watch these videos is still niche. I agree with you there. But I think I think it's growing and and every day like uh you mentioned Jesse also Chris Ramsey and like Third Eye Drops and people like that they're like in the hundreds of thousands of uh subscribers now and millions and millions of views and they keep growing. So I think there's new people coming onto the to the conversation and uh that's because of for example grassroots grassroots efforts like you James Yandali um you know people that really started at the beginning of the podcast world in UFOs and um it it just keeps growing and I think it's going to keep growing man even though it's maybe a little slow paced but I think it's going to keep growing.

need some of that tech bro money to to really kick off um [laughter] that tech bro backing. Um any major conglomerates who want to get in touch, please reach out. Uh I'll take insulation, heaters, um buy me a new house, that would be great. Uh but no um on that. So see the experiencer stuff.

The issue with me with that coming forward is because it's so so based on testimony. I know there are examples of um implants and whatnot, but then I I've struggled to have that conversation with with friends even recently. I can't remember who it was um but one of my mates was asking about the implant side of things. It was based off of me being on the Uncanny podcast and it was someone in work. I was on a work call and she was like, "Oh my god, I heard you on on Uncanny.

That's one of my favorite podcasts." And I was she was like, "Yeah, that's really interesting." She went, "So that guy has like a like a like an implant inside of him, Terry Love Lace." And I was like, "Yes." She went, "Can they not just get it out?" And you know, we it's a difficult they they move or they're evasive or people just won't take it out. And it just seems a little bit, oh, that's that's convenient. And it's there's there is that element of the topic. And I've said before, Pavle, I I I believe there are genuine experiencers out there. It's difficult and difficult to discern who is being honest, who is being deceitful, who believes they had an experience.

And let me give you an example. I don't know if I've mentioned this on the podcast before, and I'm not going to [ __ ] and say I had an experience because I didn't, but I remember I I've always had like vivid dreams. I remember one night having a dream and and I lived in a high-rise tower block. I don't know how common those are in the States or or Mexico or these different countries in South America, but like basically 19 floors, six apartments on each floor. They they basically house the poor.

Okay? So, like it's not it's not a classy accommodation by any means. Um, but I remember one night having and I'll just say a dream where my and I I have really vivid dreams and a lucid dream. The wall was removed and several little gray typical aliens appeared through the wall as in I could see outside. I was eight floors up that and I was in my bedroom and it was clear as day but obviously nighttime and this thing was outside the the flat and the wall was gone and these things came into the room and that was it. Then I woke up.

Now, I could sit and say that was an experience and I had this. What's to say other people out there don't do that and think they had an experience and I could be credentialed and end up testifying in front of Congress and say that but actually it was just a dream because as far as I'm concerned it was a dream and I'm going to get people get in touch with me and say Andy that could be a real genuine experience but how how do you know how would I know? >> Yeah. And I think that's something that people like Dr. John Mack struggled with quite a bit with many of the people that spoke to him. Um, it's a valid point.

I'm not going to say it's not. And I've also had weird dreams. I've also had weird real experiences that >> yeah, >> I was definitely awake and there were witnesses there. So, um, but yeah, that point is well taken. It's like what Joe uh talked about in his podcast, his dream.

That was really strange. Yeah. But he still thinks it was a dream and it probably was. Uh, so >> yeah. >> Yeah, I agree there.

>> But I saw that clip and it was framed as was that not Jesse Michael saying Rogan finally says or is experience and it was like then you watch it and you're like no, he says it's a dream. >> Yeah. >> And he shared it and it's pretty quick but so a little bit clickbaity but again there'd be folks that would argue and perhaps so >> that doesn't exist. What are you talking about? >> No, I know. I know.

I know. I need um a quick screenshot of both our faces looking shocked at the end of this. Pavl. Um, so >> you get on the Bigfoot podcast next, bro. [laughter] >> The There'll be people who might rightly argue that a dream doesn't mean it's not real and you don't know its different reality.

Consciousness is affected. Maybe that's I've often said perhaps and I think there's an element of the abduction experience that happens non-locally, non-physically where your your consciousness can be taken. >> Yeah. And I always the really simple example for folks who haven't heard it before is myself and my wife lying in bed. She could be awake all night looking at me.

See, I've not moved. I'm just sleeping, but I've had an abduction experience and she wouldn't know it because your consciousness is gone, but you're not. So maybe maybe that has an element to this, which is but again, I think that's the point. That's why I wanted to have you on that whole how do you get there. I still think there's a bridge that needs that needs um a gap that needs bridged to have that conversation publicly because I still think the basic conversation is a bit of a fight and perhaps we're we're getting there with the you know between age of disclosure disclosure day the Spielberg movie I know that's something you've touched on on your podcast um you talked about the betus via royale uh and the click noises and stuff like that what's your take on disclosure day the movie coming out the timing of it is this just pavl a blockbuster movie on a topic that's kind of hot, which is it's been hot up and down.

Um, but it's just a good time to have it from a guy who likes making big movies or is there something more to it? I I know that that's the easy copout answer that it's just the film, but if you watched uh Stephen Spielberg interviews when he was doing uh Close Encounters of the Third Kind, you can you can tell that he he was talking to people who knew about the the reality of this of what was happening and he wanted to make the most accurate film that he could accurate to reality. So um and also he has uh TV shows that are very accurate. The t the show taken that's that seems accurate as well to what is being reported. Um so for me um and also Jerry Brockheimr and Kasinski are also doing a film with David Grush involved and Kazinski recently had a a take. He said that I think um because uh it was said that it was science fiction and he was like I think we're getting to know that it's science fact and uh it it's an easy cop out to say oh he's just a filmmaker he's making a fiction film.

Agreed. But he's basing it on real information and so is Stephen. So uh I think it's more of like a predictive programming you could call it. And yeah, it's also Blockbuster, but um based on the investigation that those guys do and who's involved with them, you can like probably think that a lot of that is uh based on reality. So, it's a mixed bag, I would say.

But, um it's definitely going to be a blockbuster. I don't know uh if some of those uh religious elements are gonna probably hurt in a in a sense the talking about this honestly, you know. Um [snorts] >> I don't know if uh they're going to use, for example, Chris Bledo's story um as part of the film because there's a a picture of um this guy who played the can. What's his face? um um of him wearing the EEG machine things right here on >> Colin FTH. >> Colin F.

>> I saw someone the other day compared that and showed Bledo with the the EEG stuff stuck on his head and Yeah. >> Yeah. And >> people know what we're talking about the wires coming off the little little sticky plasters on and stuff. Yeah. >> And so you have to think maybe uh and given all the religious elements and Chris Bledo's story, I mean he has a book called UFO of God.

So >> maybe uh it has to do something with that as well. And >> um I can't wait though for the film to come out. But um >> but yeah, it's uh >> we should be careful a little bit. I think >> I don't think the Bledo story is part of that. I think you could go to any number of movies or franchises over the years or decades that have had very similar shots in and I think people were just picking something up there and running with it.

um on that the the Bledo interview on American Alchemy. What was your take on on that? I I shared it and thanks to Karen Karen made a comment around some of my thoughts where she was saying about let me let me pull it up. Um give me your take first and I'll get Karen's comment. Yeah. >> Well, I I think that Bledo um experienced something real because there's a lot of people that experienced the same thing like it it's and even before Chris Bledo came along, they were already experiencing something similar.

Um but I I also think that when and this something that keeps happening in the community. Um you start with a case that is revolving around you or you start like um yeah talking about this more publicly. You then become a little bit prominent within the community and then they start calling you to be in different events and then you get the masses treatment uh done to you. You get constantly uh agillated and uh people say things that are not true about you, not real, but you start believing them. And I think this happens to a lot of people.

It's happened to Dr. Steven Greer. It I think it's happened to Lu Allesando, too. Um, and I think it's happening to Chris Bledo. And um, I think that we, one thing is not um, unexclusive from the other.

I think that Bledo did experience these things, but I also think that it's gotten to a point where you say, "Okay, so you're not just doing it because you do want to find out what's going on or like you're now preaching stuff." And and that's where it gets iffy for me at least at least. And also um not being able to control his son Ryan and what he's doing, whatever the hell that is. I think that's a mistake as well because um uh Bledo even though I still think he does have good intentions and I still think that um uh yeah that he did experience those things um his son is like talking against other people's beliefs and other people's experiences and saying that only what they are experiencing is the truth and that's a slippery slope towards like something not good I would say and and I think that probably Chris ought to talk to his kid a little bit and tell him to calm down a little bit and maybe even apologize to it because what he said about experiences was pretty shitty, man. Uh honestly, >> I I made the comments that I'm not a fan of anyone in this topic who has like an absolutist view where if you don't listen to me and what I say and you try and listen to someone else's opinion, different narrative, then then that's wrong and that's not the right way to do it. You know, Pavl, if if you were telling people on your podcast, you know, I'm reporting this news, don't listen to anyone else.

Don't listen to their take on it. Don't if I've not covered it, it's not worth covering. You know, if it's not my opinion, then it's wrong. I know better. you'd be like, "Well, [ __ ] you, Pavl.

That's that's, you know, come on." And and that's that's not what you do at all. >> And I don't like that idea. I've seen the clips people shared online of Ryan's comments, and I agree. But Chris Bleds also unsettling comment for me on on American Alchemy of, you know, there are three types of people. There are people who can see these things, people I can teach to see these things, and skeptics who will never see these things.

That's that's [ __ ] That's utter nonsense. Even from my own sight in back in the 90s, my mom is as big a skeptic with this whole topic as has as has come. She doesn't believe in it at all. >> Can I give you my theory on Bledo? >> Yeah, go on. >> Because I because I have a theory about him about what's happening to every experiencer that goes through this.

Um, and I think it's linked probably to uh the work that Dr. Gary Nolan is doing and what he discovered in the brain. And I think that um uh trauma uh sort of exacerbates the these um you could call them capabilities to see things to um be more aware of like stuff that uh probably is there but not everybody can see. Um this goes back a little bit to John Ke's concept of the super spectrum. And I think that when when Chris what he's doing essentially is he is putting his framework like what he understands which is a religious framework into this but uh there's a lot of people that also see these things and they give it an entirely different interpretation and I think that >> that's what's happening to him like he uh his uh uh his wife uh passed away in in a really horrible car accident.

He was going through a really tough time with his finances and uh I think that he was his antenna you could say as Tom Deong said I think it was more open than normal when you're going through grief and through those moments I think that's what happens and that's why people keep reporting that they see things when they lost a relative or they went through something really really horrible I went through a near-death experience and weird stuff started happening to me afterwards after that happened. And I think that's probably what's happening to Chris, but he's given it that religious framework. And even even Ryan in that podcast, I saw the whole thing. He said that he grew up in a religious framework and that's why he sees it this way. That's why he thinks that's what it is.

And I think that's that's my theory of sorts. I think um yeah uh trauma is what is caused this on Chris and and his son too because his son also went through really tough stuff >> and but but they don't understand that that religious framework is something that they're adding to whatever they're experiencing is not out external. I don't know if that makes sense. >> No, it does. And I think the NDE stuff like with the near-death experiences, I agree, there's an element, it seems that you you kick a door open to that other side, that other and when you don't go through it, it maybe perhaps never completely closes.

And I think that's a lot of the work Leslie Kane's done in the past on NDEs in our Netflix documentary. You come back and you're you're just in touch with something else that maybe you shouldn't be or other people don't have access to. Not that they can't, but they have just not had the same experience you have had to allow that. There's an element for me though, and you mentioned greed as well in this where good intentions to begin with. They have sources and experience, contact, whatever it may be, and then it just turns into a whole franchise of this is this is my euphology.

And and I made the comment, it sounds very Greerike. And some folks disagreed with that, others agreed that um and I don't want to sound too disparaging when I say it, but isn't there is a negative connotation and I'm not going to shy away from that. It's my opinion wrong. It is what it is. >> And and that's that's a big issue with me with this whole topic is the lack of people saying in my opinion or I think rather than I know or this is how it is.

So when someone sits and says, "Yeah, you either see these things, you don't see these things, or I can teach you, >> you are covering a lot of bases there, but there's a lot of stuff you're missing off. There's a lot of gray areas, pardon the pun." Um, >> here here's what Karen said about the the Bledo interview. She went, "I want to share a thought regarding the Bledso interview. I felt Jesse did a good job with it. When you listen to an interview like that, you really are there to hear Chris's perspective and interpretation.

You may not agree with it, but it deserves to be heard fully and respectfully. From there, each listener can use their own discernment to form an opinion, and most people are grown up enough to do exactly that. While some interviewers choose to challenge their guests at times, it isn't always the interviewer's role to test the case. Often that responsibility belongs to the audience. An interviewer doesn't always need to be an adversary.

Um, and I I agree with that to Karen's point, but that came off the back pavl of me saying that I felt I wish Jesse given he has a good interviewer and has he has the time and the resources. Uh, myself and yourself, we cannot fly people out to a location and spend a day with them before we interview them. you know, like myself, Pavl, I'm guessing you get a couple of minutes to say hello at best and that's you also eating into your time with a guest and then you have to be off at a certain time and all that kind of stuff. Um, so you're limited, but there there's an element of for me I wish Jesse had it seemed to me Pavo and you'll appreciate this I think as an interviewer. There was a lot of long introductory questions where Pavle so you had this experience where this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened and that sounds incredible, doesn't it? That is that right? Yeah, that's right.

So, you weren't giving him an opportunity to introduce a lot of stuff. You were telling him and getting him to agree and it seemed a lot of the stuff he expanded on was just going off on a tangent. Um, and so I felt there was a lot of leading questions on Jesse's part. Not that it was a bad interview by any means. I totally get Karen's point, but I would have liked to seen Jesse push back on some of that, you know, and he does talk about discernment at one point, which was really fair, but he should have, for me, use that, and that's just a personal opinion, like I say, use that to introduce maybe the more skeptical side of it, Chris, you know, this is an incredible story.

This is a story that has has gone on. What would you say to folks who would question that your experience may be genuine, but now isn't? you know, the book, the money, the TV deals, the flying around the country, all these huge podcasts now picking him up. Nothing wrong with that. He's got to make money. But then there's a lot of folks argue, why wouldn't you film the stuff around your home? He doesn't address, and for me, a really obvious one, a real obvious one, even putting Karen's very fair point to to the side.

You've got to say, Chris, there are a lot of videos you have posted online of orbs that have been definitively shown to be the ISST or satellites. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You So, instead of coming out and saying again for me, [ __ ] do you know what? That was a mistake. >> They don't.

They just move on. And people, and you read the comments, especially on the Facebook page, people, wow, that's incredible. I've seen similar. And no, it's it's a space station. It's literally the space station.

People have triangulated the literal stars in the sky, the time of night it was filmed and the location. It's the space station, but they're passing it off. And for me, that's really really disingenuous and dangerous. >> Yeah. And I think that um this culture of like considering skeptic people, skeptical people or debunk debunkers uh bad people.

I think that's a mistake too because debunks are necessary. Um, you can you can argue that there are deniialists and there are people that seem to have their own agenda when they like for example when whenever David Grush comes out with something there's always something against him that comes out you know and those are timed seem timed so there's that yeah but if you have like a skeptical approach or a skeptical idea about something u there's always these like um gut reactions from believers you can you can call them that want to believe everything and they're very gullible that uh you can get attacked by that and and and I don't think that culture is healthy for the community. >> Um and and yeah, just me saying this, I know that there's going to be people in in the comments that are going to go like, you know, like um I don't know how you can change that really. I don't think it's possible if I'm honest with you, but um it is it is one of the issues that I I don't like either because >> that makes it way easier if you allow for skepticism and even debunking some of this stuff uh to get to the meat of of the thing, you know, and and I I don't think it should be uh frowned upon really. >> No, not everyone's going to disagree or agree.

Not everyone should because it's healthy to disagree and that also helps me change my perspective, my opinion on the topic to I can go along with something and I'm going to bring up a topic that I know were probably not necessarily going to disagree with, but I know you've got a stronger opinion on than me and that's very current. Again, uh you you can go along with an opinion. I would never think I've ever forced an opinion on anyone's throat or a narrative or what I think about person X, person Y, person Z because I might change in the future based on the information available and go actually now I'm not so bought into this person now and that could change again and I'm not flip-flopping for content. It is just like based on the evidence we have right now. This is where I'm at with it.

And I always remain open to be disappointed, to be surprised. Like I say, if one day Steven Greer can introduce me to one of these aliens that only speak to him, remember? There's a great one. Could we get Greer and Bledo on the same podcast? Because uh I mean it would probably cost a few quid. Um >> they would probably become friends instantly, bro. >> Do you know what? Jesse Michaels and Chris Ramsey, you guys have got some backing.

Greer and Bledo, same podcast because they both claim to be in direct contact with whatever this is. And Yep. It's like who's right? Can't have two Jesuses. So >> this this concept of the lady is interesting though, I gotta say. Um because if it hadn't happened before and many times uh these Marian apparitions, I would have called [ __ ] a long time ago about this.

But man, I live in Mexico and there's a whole culture and a whole industry surrounding the beer dealupe. And that was also a Marian apparition that apparently did happen. So I do I do feel very very curious about knowing what this thing is, you know. Uh >> Pasulka's presentation at Saul was all around miracle of Fatma and Euphology and how miracles were they just UFO sightings or experiences in a different form. Um it was really interesting.

Really interesting. Um, >> shame she had to do it remotely and couldn't be there in person, but it was really good and it was all along those lines. So, I know Saul are currently beginning to release those presentations from the event. Um, the Carl Nell one is now up online as well. So, as those come out, folks, and Pavl, I think you'd really like the Pasca one uh in that respect.

It's really good. Um, but what I was going to mention before around opinions changing on this topic, the Nazka mummies, I know is something that's relatively close to look at the smile on his face. if you're listening as soon as I said that folks. So, the Nazka um in the last week there have been two pretty prominent shows on this uh Incredible History. >> Yeah.

>> And obviously on Weaponized most recently uh >> yes >> talking will from Incredible History who's been on the podcast great guy lovely to speak to. um has done some work, some investigation and basically Pavl, correct me if I'm wrong here, had a doctor on with them and they're basically showing that they feel the the big mummies folks and this is one of the confusing things around it. They've got those little ones and whatnot, but the big mummies who look kind of like the aliens from the Alien movie, Sigourney Weaver movies, best way to describe them for folks, um, they feel they have they have shown that there are human fingers that have been attached. And this is always one of the accusations that's been leveled that these are just uh human remains that have been uh put together through various different means with animal remains. and they think they've basically shown that these things are just mutilated human bodies and whatever it may be.

So very much on the hoax category. I don't think you agree with that necessarily, Pavo. Is that right? >> No, it's not right. Uh it's not that I agree, but uh this case is so convoluted. Um I'm sure you know that um I've spoken to people who are also anthropologists who have looked at uh the diccoms that they call um and I've asked them constantly because this this debunk is old like um this argument that uh the hands and and feet were mutilated.

That's one of the oldest debunks that have existed. It's just different people now talking about them. Um and and I understand that debunk. I I've asked about it at nauseium to two anthropologists and one radiologist who still think that um the larger bodies are real. Um so I am confused.

I'm not going to lie. Um >> yeah, >> but I also think that uh not even the DNA tests are going to be definitive um to to claim that these are real or not. I happen to think that the only way to actually found find out what's happening with these and if they're real or not completely is by raiding the site and that can't happen unless there's a gunfight against the WO mafia and that's that's at the core of the issue here that there is a mafia of uh mummified and and and modified remains uh that are being sold in the black market for tens and even hundreds of thousands of dollars and and the people that are involved in that u I'm going to be honest with you I don't think even Haime or even Ti the people that are like directly involved in this case know whether these are real or not they all have their doubts at this point I honestly think so I honestly think that the McDows even have their doubts even though they're deeply involved with Haime and with everything that's going on I think that they have their doubts as well. So um I want to wait until the results from very prominent u institutions from the US and from the UK and from other places um are currently running and when those come out then I'm I'm going to make an opinion but I I I can confidently tell you like there was a time when I was like u more certain than not that the larger bodies were real. Um, even though I had seen that debunk before, but this latest explanation of the same debunk was very thorough and it was very well done.

I do have to give that to Will. >> Um, but um, that's all I can say for now because there's a lot more developing that I cannot talk about. Uh, and it's not my information to give anyway. Um, but >> you put a number on it like 60 60 real fake 7030 >> for me. It's 50/50 now for me.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Do >> you know I think for me part of the issue on this is there's no real lead to go and follow or speak to on this. There are so many different people involved >> that aren't working together that are all working in silo which is really strange when you've got like you've got something that has a chain of custody. You know if if you found a piece of a piece of a craft pavl it would be you we would speak to about it.

What's happening with it? What's going on? But between Haime and Hollywood Disclosure Alliance's involvement, Gaia's involvement, all these different anthropologists, different universities, different scientists, and you'll know as well, I've said this before, there are multiple scientists and academic organizations in the background who do not want to be named, who are involved in different ways in this as well. Um, which is great, but also doesn't help. But I get there's a whole transparency, but also if you want some of this [ __ ] done, then you need to let some of the people just do the work in the background. So it's so difficult and you you do have so many different presentations of these things are real, these things are [ __ ] And see, for me as a layman, I don't sit and pretend and it'd be really easy for me, same as you, Pavl, to sit and present all this is real until it's not and then go, oh well, let's move on next story. It's really difficult to follow because I'm I'm in no way qualified to look at any X-ray or scan.

So when someone sits down with doctor in front of their name and tells me this is a llama skull, I I go okay. But then another person sits down with doctor in front of their name and says no, this is why it's not a llama skull. It's like >> see this is why I'm so confused, bro, because I've been talking to a lot of the involved scientists in this and um each of them had like say different things and I think that this is something that at least one of those uh sites is taken advantage of. the fact that the most both most of us are lay people and they just they can just say like really sophisticated [ __ ] to you and you go like okay yeah yeah and unless you do like even if you do your own research you're not going to know how to talk technically about cranometry for example >> that's like it's impossible I tried to read >> study it for five years yeah you get you gota you got to do that [ __ ] to understand and I think that at least one side of this issue is taking advantage of that of people's ignorance in the topic and I just can't find out which is you know because um I know that people for example involved in uh with Haime um there's always those who accuse Haime of like you know having them in in in his pocket and [ __ ] like that. I have no way to prove that.

Uh, but I can tell you that I've been talking to scientists who are not involved directly with either Heyman or Ti and at least one of them who I really respect, he's an anthropologist. He's like he's looked at remains for decades now and he believes they're true. They're real. And he even has an account that he in the 90s he saw one of those alive. So that's what makes it difficult for me because if you like look at the background of people that are talking to you and they seem believable, they seem credentialed.

Um that's where I I get really confused. So right now I'm 50/50, bro. >> Sitting firmly on the fence, which I can appreciate. And I think that's a good place to be with this because I think I probably lean >> 40 60 in favor of it being fake. Yeah, >> but there's there's an element of just being used to that though where do you know what? We've not had we've not had one yet.

It's like Pavle giving me football predictions every single week, me putting a bet on and always losing and you being like, "No, no, one's going to happen, one's going to happen. Do you know what? I'm sure eventually one will." And I look forward to that day I win that money. But right now, I'm I'm $200 in the [ __ ] hole. So, you know, um Pavle does not provide me with football bets, folks. He doesn't support any good teams for me to >> I suck at that.

So, no, no, no way. [laughter] >> Do you know what? Very quick sidebar. One of my things I changed this year, very few resolutions as such cuz that's all [ __ ] Um, sorry folks, but I I closed down my betting account >> because I didn't lose a fortune, but I was putting on loads of money to probably win back the same amount and it was like, wait a minute here, this is [ __ ] you know, >> good call. >> It's all very well every every so often getting a£1,000 bet come in, but you know, you go, yes, I've just recovered £880 I've lost in the last six months. Um, so yeah, but that was one of mine.

But listen on that then one one final thing Pavl before you freeze to death and myself um James Fox there has been a rumored announcement coming out when I spoke to him a couple of week uh week and a half ago he said it's coming soon there will be an announcement really soon I'm just not allowed to say too much about it wasn't an exclusive for me other people had heard the same thing from James there was rumors for a while of a press club type event was going to happen um that happened back in 2001 with Steven Greer and co we have confirmation of that as of yesterday. Um the full announcement eventually went out through the anomalous coalition and that was because James Fox was having some issues getting things shared online. So they'd posted to say help James get it all online in one place. Here's the press release. And just to let people know essentially um that says James Fox, the phenomenon moment of contact hosts a UAP UFO press conference in Washington DC with witnesses, experts, and members of Congress.

It will be at the National Press Club on January 20th, 2026 from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and that's Eastern time, folks. So, in the UK, that starts at 4:00 p.m. Um, the to 11:00 a.m.

to 1:00 p.m. there'll be Brazilian firsthand witnesses of a crashed UFO and live non-human beings. Um, that is not that there will be live non-human beings in the press club, folks. Just that there are witnesses to those two things. Just the way I read that might have sounded wrong.

Um, and that is the Virginia case, and I'll get to that in a second. And then total three, American insiders on crash retrievals, biologics, and calls for immunity for whistleblowers. Pavo, just let me quickly read this out cuz I've not covered this yet on the podcast. Go ahead. So, part one, um, Brazil.

For the first time ever, a leading Brazilian neurosurgeon is revealing details of his direct contact in a hospital with a live non-human intelligent being in 1996. He and other Brazilian witnesses will be at the National Press Club in Washington DC on January 20th, 2026 for a press conference. The truth is I saw the being. It was not a being from our planet, says Dr. Italo Ventterelli, the neurosurgeon who was beside the entity uh or beside with the entity at regional hospital in Virginia.

We are talking about something that changes the concept of humanity. It's important for people to know. I won't cover all the press conference there. Um, part two then says, "Beginning 20 America, beginning in 2023, numerous intelligence insiders have come forward, often under oath, to report on ultra secret special access programs engaged in the recovery and analysis of both crashed vehicles and biologics defined in this context as biological specimens or bodies of nonhuman origin. There is no risk to national security from the release of evidence of biological specimens as there may be with exposing technology from crash vehicles.

This historic press conference will address the issue of non-human biologics as has never been done before. Um, as an independent effort, the American speakers at the press conference will be calling upon the executive branch to relax certain security clearance obligations so that insiders who were part of America's UAP legacy program can share classified information with Congress and eventually speak more openly to the public. Furthermore, they will be emphasizing the need to increase information sharing efforts between nations regarding UAP crashes. There is no information currently, Pavl, on who the Americans involved will be. We can speculate on that in a moment.

The panelists from Brazil are Senator Senator Eduardo Geral, Dr. Italo Ventterelli, Dr. Amandro Amando Finonato, and Carlos Dosa who was the the witness to the crash. So, we're very much got a Virginia focus here. And we have then the American side of things.

What's your take on the event? What's your thoughts? What's going to happen here? >> I heard that Leslie Kane talking about that they were going to discuss biologics. Hopefully, they can show something or maybe give us a hint that that there is uh material, you know, video photos, >> what what the biologics might actually be. Yeah. Yeah. And Fox Fox uh James Fox was with uh Chris Ramsey yesterday and >> he did say that there were many pictures and videos, not just one.

>> Um so, uh hopefully maybe they already got a hold of something like that and they can show it. Uh that would be like my best hope, right? Um but I think that they're going to talk about this stuff. I don't know who the Americans involved are. I would guess that maybe Jeff Nushelli is gonna be part of that because he went with James to Brazil, right? So, and he's a good speaker, too. So, maybe he's going to be part of it, too.

I don't know who else, but um >> Borland, Matthew Brown, I don't think so. >> Grush I don't I don't think so. Um maybe they are, but I don't think so. I think it's going to be Jeff. Uh probably.

And I don't know if Well, James is really good friends with Lou. I mean, they they recently did a really like camaraderie type of interview together, so it would make sense that Lou is there. Um, if he's involved or not, I don't know. But, um, I guess it would make sense to me that he's there, too. >> Would say, remember in the buildup to Lou's last book coming out, uh, he was radio silent until the book come out.

So I I don't know if that was I'm presuming that was due to like um the contract he has. You know, you talk about Dan Farah and the IP involvements and stuff. >> I imagine before these things that you don't go on any shows, you don't do interviews. You >> you stay quiet and you you build till publicity time. So >> I don't know if he's still in the same in the same position he was back then, you know, like because uh back then I don't think he had control over what he did.

um based on the recent activity, I've seen him more active on social media, responding to people, unlike in the past. So, I I don't think that's an issue for him now. I do think that he he seems to be want to get more involved. I mean, he just announced a book. He's kept saying that more stuff is coming, so he's going to be involved in it.

Um and the the topic in general, I don't know if on James's thing, I don't know. But um but yeah uh for me um this has been one of the most compelling cases that I've seen so far in the whole topic. So, the fact that James was able to bring everything to DC and make people pay attention in DC, that's very valuable in my opinion. And hopefully they can get, for example, more information about the pilot or pilots that allegedly took the plane to Brazil and brought all the stuff back allegedly. Let's keep saying allegedly because um even though it's one of the most compelling cases so far um there hasn't been really any proper proper evidence on it.

So hopefully James knows that. I'm sure he does. Uh but yeah, it is exciting. And uh people like I did a small comparison uh of the Steven Greer uh conference to the James Fox that is now happening. >> Uh it only goes as far as they both did a press conference about UFOs at the National Press Club.

>> Yeah. [snorts] >> Uh but I'm I'm sure it's going to be an entirely different thing. Um >> Greers was very interesting in my opinion and important too. um he did have a lot of people within the government and stuff talking about this but that was a massive thing. Um this one I think is what gonna be a bit more petite come I think I don't know if you agree with that.

I think what would be good I know a lot of folks including myself I reached out to the publicist involved and was like do we know who the speakers are perhaps it's better we keep the speakers quiet and who's actually going to be involved so no one pulls out last minute no one gets cold feet um if they do we don't know which is probably better Dylan Borland was a surprise in the hearing we didn't know Dylan till he came forward and his name was in that sheet so perhaps that's a good thing and you can only kind of be be surprised I'm not going to go in with low expectations like I would normally say because I think James Fox I've got a lot of respect for him and I think he's a genuine genuinely nice guy in this topic. I think his heart is completely in the right place and uh if he's doing this with all the work he's been doing over the last year couple of years he's got like a young you know a young kid and stuff and I know he loves spending time with and he has to spend a lot of time away from his kid. Um, I think he'll have put a lot of work into this and he won't want to do something that comes across similar to remember when the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance done that event to show the mummies and it was like outside in a car park and the internet connections were [ __ ] and you had experts standing up and they showed a video of someone breaking one of the fingers on the mummies and it just looks so amateur. >> Yeah, >> James won't want this to to be like that. So, I think especially what we have now that we didn't have in 2001 is is social media >> where people will pick this up, people will run with it.

Um, can you get Rogan's eyes on it? American Alchemy will cover, Area 52 will cover. Um, I'm sure myself and yourself will talk about it, Pavo, as will many others. I just hope it it pushes things forward in the right direction. Like you say, it's an incredibly interesting case. I hope the fact that it's not a US- ccentric case doesn't put people off.

um in the states because that that does happen where >> it's a US phenomenon. It's not a US phenomenon. It's a worldwide phenomenon. We all know that. Um it's a really strong case.

I hope I hope the people speaking from the American point of view bring something to the table and that from it there's an impact. I think that's a big one for me. It's not just an event we sit here and go like Age of Disclosure. Yeah, that that was interesting. Yeah, nothing I didn't already know.

I want there to be something and I I think it's a stretch to think they're going to be any photos or videos like you say. That would be great. I would love that if they could just present something that we go, "Oh, that's that's interesting." >> Something that was interesting though was that on the Chris Ramsey's podcast, they spoke about this uh uh military man who passed away after allegedly touching the the thing. Um, and they they showed the autopsy report. That was interesting.

>> I've not watched it yet, but I've I've heard that happen. >> That was interesting because there were some anomalies in the autopsy report of uh this um I think it was a bacteria that uh touched this guy when the being scratched him and >> it has it had some characteristics that are not normal in in this world like in in nature. So that was interesting. I think that is compelling evidence now. Um, this this autopsy report and I don't know if they're going to lean on that a little bit because that's that's like new evidence that uh was just presented.

So maybe maybe Yeah, I don't know. >> Let's start wrapping up, mate. Um, before we go, give me three predictions for 2026. What are we going to be talking about this year in the UFO world? >> I don't do predictions, but um, I'll cue. >> Give us three spoilers then.

>> [laughter] >> No, no, no, no, no. Um, I think that the conversation is already happening. Uh, but it's going to lean more into bodies. Um, that's what I think. Um, and whatever you think about the tridactyls.

Um, I think that the conversation is also going to be about the trals, even though even if they're hoaxes or not, it's going to be stronger, especially in the US. Um, so that's one. Uh, also we can include James's, uh, stuff there. There's another case in Bolivia that I just covered about biologics as well. So that's going to be interesting.

The second one is, and this is more of a hope than a prediction. I hope that um more of these people that um that for example Dylan Dylan Borland is saving information for as a dead man switch. I hope that more of these people that are constantly talked about in the back channels come forward to to speak. >> Um and and yeah, this includes the >> the latest whistleblower that Burles talked about in the interview that we did. Um because and that you all he also talked to you about that, right? And to Diner as well about this new whistle.

>> Yeah, I touched on it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um so I hope that this guy, whoever he is or she, I don't know if it's he or she, I hope that they if they come forward, I hope that they're involved in this so-called legacy program. And if they are that they really bring receipts, you know, and >> um good information.

Um and uh I can I can I can tell you um this is something that I think I don't think anything will happen in Easter. That's a prediction. >> I would agree with you. >> Yeah. >> Well, other than people will get lots of chocolate eggs and get fat for a couple of weeks.

Um >> that's what I'm doing. >> So I I think we're going to be hearing people say that. Yeah, things changed >> like you know I'll give the example of I used to follow quite a lot before long before I started this podcast. One of my guilty pleasures was Andrew Basajio. You heard of him? >> No.

Who's that? >> He um really interesting guy. Go if you ever get a spare four hours, right? search his name. I'll send you a link and you can watch him present flawlessly and he speaks so well that he as a child was in this kind of really special program along with Obama and others as a kid. Um and he would like jump to Mars and go back in time and all that kind of stuff >> and special programs. Yeah.

But the guy speaks like meticulously. But he also predicted that he was going to be president in like 2016. And then it was like that never happened and it went oh yeah the timeline changed and then it was going to be 2020 and ah the timeline changed like that was the kind of and yeah it's always that convenient thing of the timeline changed and then I'm sure something happened that he disappeared and some guy posted saying he was going blind and losing his sight and was doing a massive GoFundMe but he was still going to be president so look out for that. Um, but yeah, he was one of those guys. It was a real guilty pleasure of mine back in the day that I would watch and go, "That's not true." But my god, what a story.

You know, like, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And all that to say, I don't think anything will happen in Easter, but we'll probably get a reason why. >> Yes.

Hopefully that that would be good. >> That would be good. >> But listen, Pavo, how can people find you, mate? How can people uh find your work in content? You can find me on uh YouTube, on on Spotify, on Patreon at SQATO Podcast, also on Instagram Podcast and on Xactiv Pot and Pava. I have two accounts. Um, thank you.

Thank you for that. >> Anytime. I'll put those links in the description, folks. Thank you so much, Pavle. It' be great to get you back on on a kind of regular basis if I can just um chew the [ __ ] with you in a monthly roundup or something.

there's a lot going on and it's always nice to kind of bounce off people sometimes and and be able to chew the cud and uh disagree which is always always nice as well. So thank you man and keep up the good work mate because it's a one of the channels that I genuinely use as a go-to now. >> Same Andy. Same. Thank you man.

Um and yeah let's talk again soon. Yeah. >> Cheers man and I'll speak to you all very very soon. >> That's all for this episode of That UFO podcast. Thank you so much for listening and watching.

If you enjoyed the show, please follow, subscribe, and leave a rating or review wherever you get your podcast. It really helps others find the show. If you're watching on YouTube, hit like, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you don't miss future episodes. You can also support the show directly and get early access, add [music] free episodes, and bonus content on Patreon or by subscribing on Apple Podcast, Spotify, or YouTube memberships. All the links are over at thatodcast.com or in the show description below along with merchandise and more.

Don't forget you can also pick up a copy of my book, Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects, available now in all good bookstores and through online retailers, including Amazon. Big thank you again to all of you for listening and tuning in. Until next time, keep looking up. You never know what you might see. [music] It wasn't a tic tac and not quite a saucer.

More like a hub step designed by Chelsea. A little baroque and quite steampunk like Alice was playing bass for the parliament effect. The little [ __ ] hovered right inside of my window and when I shoved out the screen, he made it an issue. I don't think he expected me to see his ass, but I'd had some champagne and smoke.