UFOs at the border: Whistleblower's new video | Reality Check

Transcript

[Music] Good day and welcome back to Reality Check. I'm your host, Ross Kulart, and today the first in a series of interviews we're going to be running with some of the people who featured in our recent Arizona Border special. Bob Thompson is an Army veteran who served for 14 years with the US Customs and Border Protection as part of the Tucson, Arizona sector's special operations detachment mobile response team focusing on counterterrorism and drug interdiction. He eventually became part of the Arizona Air Coordination Center, which monitors the airspace along the US border with Mexico. And it's in the course of that important work that he came across evidence of anomalous objects recorded and tracked by surveillance aircraft, including what has become known as the rubber ducky.

Inside Border Patrol, Bob became concerned that his superiors weren't that concerned about these unexplained objects hovering near the border. Because surely, if there is anything like that in our airspace, it should be a national security concern. if unidentified objects are hovering in our airspace near the border. He wrote a report for his bosses detailing what he discovered and eventually he got permission to share what he'd discovered. It's rare to get an insider with Bob Thompson's knowledge and experience to go on the record.

This is the first time he's allowed himself to be identified publicly. And today you can see those videos and hear his full story on record for the first time. Here's Bob Thompson. Bob, let's establish your credentials. Who are you? What was your role in Border Protection? So, I am a retired Border Patrol agent.

I worked for the United States Border Patrol for 14 years. and I worked on uh my last assignment was with the special operations detachment in the Tucson sector border patrol. Uh I started in January of 2008 and uh retired in uh January of 2022. During that time I served on different uh special operations teams at the station level, including ATVs, mountain teams, uh border awareness and intelligence teams. And like I said, the last part of it, I was flying uh for the border patrol and also had the ability to help out uh and start out a uh a system that they called the air coordination center.

So that was uh something that was going to involved all the flight stuff that that was in the Tucson sector border patrol. Your job required you to have a security clearance. Absolutely. You had a top secret SCI clearance? Nope. Just a regular uh classified uh top secret.

You were a respected border patrol. Yes, sir. Yeah, I worked as a uh paramedic on a special operations detachment for a group called the mobile response team, which is one of the three tiers of the special operations for border patrol. So, uh I was kind of our team medic, the the only paramedic that we had on that uh team. So, I I had the the ability to take care of both the bad guys and the good guys.

Before you got into this topic, what was the attitude inside the border patrol organization to the subject of unidentified anomalous phenomena? I would say non-existent. Non-existent. There wasn't any attitude because no one really discussed it openly. So, what got you into it? Me personally, I was always interested in the topic and had, you know, I've had sightings of of anomalous objects myself all throughout my life. On the job as well.

On the job as well. Yes. What did you see? I've seen orbs. I've seen strange lights that were, you know, just bright and hovering, uh, takeoff stuff that maybe was could have been satellites that moved in ways that weren't like satellites. A lot of stuff at night and we also had the ability to use, uh, some of the technology to see some of these things as well.

So, where you were operating is quite an interesting and unusual area. you you were operating along the border with Mexico, ensuring the border was secure, but you were also adjacent to some key military air training ranges, weren't you? That's correct. We were uh responsible for areas that included the Berry Goldwater range and a lot of the military uh uh areas of operation along the border, our air corridors, flight path for jets that come down from uh Luke Air Force Base, Davis Mountain Air Force Base uh and the Yuma Yuma uh activities as well out with the Marines. So there's vast areas, remote parts of Arizona which are being used by the Air Force and other military agencies to train military pilots. That's correct.

Using uh all kinds of different platforms that we would see while we flew out there and in the middle of all of this, you're flying there with what kind of aircraft and what kind of capabilities? Well, the ones that I mainly flew on were helicopters. So when I was flying with the National Guard, we flew on the UH72 Lakota, which is a kind of a standard utility helicopter for the uh air or the Army National Guard. We also flew on the UH60 Blackhawk helicopters doing uh apprehension stuff as well as fixed wings that involved the RC26 Metro Liner and uh Hueies as well, UH1 Hueies. And what kind of kit do you have on those helicopters so that our audience can understand the capabilities without giving away any national security issues? What kind of things can these equipment do? Well, they have the ability of seeing in the dark and seeing different uh thermal uh spectrums with things. So the the common terminology that a lot of people hear is is the fleer, the forward-looking infrared.

So, uh, some of those platforms had cameras on board that, uh, utilize a sensor operator to look for, uh, targets that were on the ground as in or in the air. So, you've got sophisticated surveillance gear. Absolutely. It allows you to look on the ground and in the air. And in addition, you had the pilots wear NVGs as well as the crew members as well.

So, they're explain what NVGs are. Night vision goggles. And what are they? They're they give you the ability to see in the dark. Okay. So, you've got a pretty formidable amount of equipment there that allows you to see what's out there.

That's correct. What is out there? Well, me personally, I've seen, like I said, orbs that were off in the distance. I've seen uh craft that were cigar- shaped. I've seen triangles myself. I've never been able to record them personally, but, you know, with videos that I have seen from other agents show some of that stuff.

Now, during your role in border protection, there came a time when you suggested to your superiors that you start preparing some kind of research report into what was being seen. I did when I uh when I was working for what they call the Arizona Air Coordination Center. Uh I was uh kind of solicited for uh the ability to put together a report, what they call an issue paper uh and and get that subject kind of on the record. and we were having incidences where the potential could be there for a a strike from say a a small UAS and it kind of fit into that program. So So there was a concern among pilots, safety concerns that there might be a collision with these objects they were seeing.

There could be, but we were also operating what they call small uh UAS's or small unmanned aerial surveillance vehicles. So this is an important issue. Not only is this a a national security issue because you've got unknown objects operating not only in secure military areas but along the border with Mexico, there's also a flight safety issue. Well, and like I said, there's there's so many platforms that are down and around out there, but the aircraft have their their safety systems that they worry about, but you also have, like I said, you have guys on the ground, border patrol agents that are operating, you know, their drone surveillance uh as well in the apprehension of How many agents did you end up speaking to in Border Protection who had seen anomalous objects? At least a hundred. At least a hundred.

Wow. And a lot of those are, you know, personal friends and stuff as well. So, and what sort of things were they telling you? Well, uh, for example, small triangles is, you know, something that we we haven't really heard a lot about. Maybe, uh, Jeremy Corbel reported some of those small triangles that were hovering above the ships. These were small triangles that were flying over agents.

In addition to that, they had uh, and just so I'm large triangles. Were those small triangles, whatever size they were, were they showing any visible means of propulsion? Nope. when they were showing on flur forward looking infrared, was there any visible heat source? I'm not aware of anyone tracking any of the small triangles on Fleer, but that they may have seen them with the night vision goggles. Uh I know for a fact that one of the guys looked at these things with night vision goggles and he didn't see any type of propulsion or anything on them. They were just kind of silently moving around the desert.

So this is being discussed inside border protection amongst the guys. Yes. As an issue of concern. Well, and speculation as to what they could be as well. I don't think anyone that I came across from a ground agent uh standpoint thought they were a safety concern.

You know, for them it became more of a concern for the stuff that was flying around in the air. The pilots had more of a concern for any more about than anything. You mentioned some of these agents were also seeing larger black triangles. Large black triangles. You mentioned some of these agents were also seeing larger triangles.

That's correct. Uh I have a personal friend that was out west of uh or east of Yuma, Arizona, out on patrol out there and had a very large triangle fly over him. Silent. The way he described it was at least 100 feet maybe 50 to 100 ft wide. Silent flying right over him.

No lights on. Nighttime. Nighttime using night vision goggles. No, he's No, they saw it uh personally without anything right over the top of them. I mean that by definition is extraordinary.

I mean, it's it's unusual. It's a craft of some kind. It's a craft, but like like we've talked about already, there is a large military training area out there. So, could it be something that the military was testing? It's a distinct possibility. But when he saw that large black triangle, did he hear any noise? No.

Silent. Did he see a propulsion system? No propulsion system. And it wasn't just him. There was two people out there that saw it at the same time. And you spoke to both of them? I didn't get to speak to the other one.

The other one was his friend. But how often were the witnesses that you spoke to corroborated by other agents? A lot of times there were multiple agents that saw stuff at the same time. I have a story about a supervisor that I was with that we saw stuff come out of the sky uh down in Cenoida. Two two objects came down uh they were just lights came straight down out of the sky and then moved horizontally and disappeared behind some mountains. Both of us were sitting there in a truck and nei neither of us could come to an explanation of what what that was.

So I'm not making any criticism of you here, but you're part of Homeland Security when you're working for border protection, aren't you? You are. I'm retired now. I just want to make that. Yes. So So this is after 9/11.

Protecting our borders is sacrosanct. Absolutely. An unknown by definition is a threat. Absolutely. So what was going on inside the organization when agents were reporting this to you as part of your research? Well, I explained that I was gathering information in a certain sense, but I also made it very personal because it was, you know, it was something that the agents didn't freely talk about.

So if I shared experiences that I had, you know, it seemed you could open up agents to have them kind of share their experiences. I knew I wasn't the only one that saw things out. I just want to explore that with you. So, they didn't want to talk about it. No one likes to talk about it freely.

Why? I think it's just still a taboo subject because Sorry. I'm sorry. By definition, though, if you see a gigantic 100 ft craft black triangle of some kind hovering over you in the desert in the middle of Arizona, that's a national security issue, isn't it? Consensus being, you know, that being a training range, I think there's a lot of agents that think that may be just, you know, stuff that we're flying ourselves. So, but you can't make that assumption. You can't make that assumption.

It wasn't hostile. Put it that way. If these guys were describing hostile events to them, I think we would be having a different conversation. But, I mean, but they're not. Most of them are just sightings that occur, you know, and they're they're kind of non non-events.

They'll see something that flies over. Sure, it's a safety concern, but, you know, it's not a concern for the agents at the time. But I mean, if a plane load of al-Qaeda terrorists was coming over the border, you guys would be hot to trot. You'd be pulling all the alarms. You'd be making sure that whatever the hell it is, it's stopped.

We'd certainly be making the notifications to the right people. I don't think the border patrol is capable of combating, you know, Taliban, but that we would make the appropriate notifications. But you understand what I'm saying here. I mean, there's this huge issue. Hundreds of reports.

Agents are seeing these things. And I I would have thought there was an obligation to report them. The the problem was we didn't have any uh reporting requirements for that if it didn't have a nexus to smuggling. Ross, I don't think uh anyone wanted to say on the record that they had seen a large triangle flying over them. And who would you report that to? What What is the There wasn't a means there wasn't a means to report it.

Now, the thing that really struck me, and forgive me, Miguel, if I go on this diversion, but it's important. Go right ahead, please. Um, are you aware that the US Air Force was also seeing strange objects on these ranges? Only through open source media. I was aware of of the uh Drive published in a article about stuff that they saw out in the West Desert training uh area, which really corresponded to what our pilots were seeing as well. So, I am aware of that.

I mean, what's interesting is the war zone uh uh which is an excellent online periodical, it reported on what it described as drone swarms over not just training areas, but the Paulo Verde nuclear plant in Arizona multiple times in September 2019. So something, whatever it is, is hovering over an extremely sensitive nuclear facility. Was that an issue in Homeland Security to border protection? Well, nuclear power plants are a little outside our purview, but stuff along the border certainly was. I never had anyone say that they reported drone swarms. Most of the reports that I saw were singular loan items or loan objects.

There was also commercial reports coming in. It was the crew of an American Airlines uh flight and a Phoenix Air Charter business jet. They reported an encounter with a UAP in the southern part of the state on the border with New Mexico the year before. I mean, this is amazing. There's stuff all the time in the skies over Arizona.

There's obviously something going on in Arizona along the border areas more than just uh illegal immigration. One of the things I was really impressed with was the fact that the war zone obtained on FOI safety reports from the US Air Force which showed that on one occasion one of these objects hit the cockpit window of an F-16 fighter jet. Have you ever heard of those kind of incidents? I have not heard of that personally. I don't know if I'd be perview to the Air Force's uh uh safety reports and and I don't remember any uh open source information about that specific event you were talking about. But we did you approach the Air Force at all? No, we did not have a a relationship per se with the Air Force.

At least I didn't. I know we had military liaison that worked for uh Tucson sector. That might have been in their wheelhouse, but it wasn't in mine. But this is what worries me is the whole lesson from 9/11 was that you had individual agencies finding out things about the al-Qaeda terrorists and not sharing it with other agencies. And I'm not saying this is a terrorist incident what we're talking about here, but you've got homeland security becoming aware of strange anomalous objects in the skies.

You've got the Air Force FOID safety reports talking about anomalous objects in the skies. They call them UAS's or drones, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence that they are identified as drones. Um, and some of these objects are operating at 17,000, 20,000, 33,000, 36,000 ft. Does any known drone operate at that fe? None that I know of. At least when I was working for the Border Patrol, we did not have any drones that went that high uh that uh were commercial, small, or otherwise for the most part.

We we did have other uh uh surveillance platforms that flew for uh Department of Homeland Security, but they weren't tied to any type of, you know, drone that moved in a quadcopter type fashion or otherwise. And and here's another uh US Air Force report which was obtained on FOI. March 2021, two pilots and F-35s are flying near Casa Grande in Arizona between Phoenix and Tucson. They report seeing a large white UAS stationary at 24,000 ft. It's pretty interesting.

That was probably on the route down to the Berry Goldwater range or heading south. That would be my guess. That's a little far north of the border. Casagran's a little bit further north from where we were at, but uh it's still in the general area. They were probably in route down to uh the training zone.

But what's interesting is there are things called haters, hazardous air traffic reports, which have been obtained by journalists from the US Air Force. And there's a succession. In fact, there's a blizzard of reports from the US Air Force talking about how F-35 jets have had to evasively maneuver to avoid clusters of small UAP objects or UAS objects at ridiculous altitudes, 20,000, 30,000 ft. These don't sound like commercial or even known military drones, do they? No, they don't. And and typically the Border Patrol agents aren't looking up at they're not looking straight up at 30,000 ft or 25,000 ft either.

So that would be definitely out of their uh kind of line of sight for the most part. What I find fascinating is the Air Force, the US Air Force is clearly seeing the same things as your colleagues were, your agents in the Border Protection Force with Homeland Security. And nobody's talking to each other. It's it's a mystery. There's a a a fighter pilot from the um the US Air Force who puts in a hazardous air traffic report.

At 21,000 ft, he sees a small black metallic object. That's all it says. It's never explained. And yet, we know these things are operating in secure air training areas adjacent to the border with Mexico. By definition, that's a national security flight safety concern, isn't it? I would think so.

So, I think I've made the point that I wanted to make with the Air Force reports. Basically, there's an independent series of corroborative reports which prove that what your Border Patrol officers were seeing was being corroborated at the same time by the US Air Force. Now, in my book, that's what we call data evidence. True. I would say so.

So, what happens? You write your report. I didn't get a chance to finish my report, Ross, because I had to medically retire from the Border Patrol. So, I'm hoping that got carried on and someone was able to help get get reporting requirements into operation within the Tucson sector. We do know that the Department of Homeland Security at a very very high level was considering beginning its own investigations into UAPs because we know it's now official that there were approaches by people who were concerned about this issue from defense that this should be investigated. There was a push inside DHS to begin an investigation and it was allegedly shut down.

Does it concern you that this was shut down? I think yes, because I think the Department of Homeland Security could have a pivotal role in maybe an early warning for, you know, something like this occurring. If there are, you know, as we have, you know, shown stuff flying around in the skies of Arizona that we don't know what it is. I think it's imperative that someone do, you know, try to discover what this is. And if if the Department of Homeland Security could play a role in doing that, I I would I can't see why you would exclude them from that. Well, the Department of Homeland Security was conceived out of a national tragedy.

Yes. And the reason why that national tragedy 9/11 occurred, miscommunication. We were asleep at the wheel. Sleep at the wheel. Intelligence agencies weren't talking to each other.

That's right. And Prima, what you're telling me is proof of that. That's right. I know you hadn't finished your report, but what were your impressions? What were your conclusions at the point where you'd gathered all this data? I think I was at the point that it was a safety concern uh for stuff that was flying around out there. I was more concerned about our pilots and and my team members that were flying aboard these aircraft and making sure that they were safe.

if they saw something that was a a near miss or close encounter, I wanted them to be able to report it and and and have that data flow to the right resources that could possibly use it. That was, you know, my only goal was the safety considerations. Now, as I understand it, your security classification gave you access to video archives. I did I did a lot of data mining looking for uh you know uh videos that would support the case as to why we need these reporting requirements. So you have to build a case and that was basically what that issue paper is doing is is making a case for why we need to do something like this.

And I think that the the data showed that there were things that were flying around out there along the border that were a concern that uh probably should be on people's radar. And by by definition, let's be clear about this. You weren't skulking around the archives improperly. You had authorization to make the I had I had access to all the all the uh information that I needed to. Not as much as I'd like to, but I found a fair amount that supported the case I was trying to make with that report.

So, your bosses were supportive, I would say. Yes. And this is this is around about the time as I understand it when the independent office of the uh director of national intelligence oi 2021 they published a report acknowledging that UAP's unidentified anomalous phenomena are real. That's correct. and he also uh made the recommendation that they would re there would be reporting requirements established at the same time as well.

So preemptively I started working uh on that for Tucson sector at least. So you you had support from your bosses inside border protection and more importantly again the office of the director of national intelligence was an office that was set up to deal with the catastrophe the failures of 911. It was an intelligence zar above the defense department, above the intelligence community, entrusted with protecting America. Correct. That's correct.

And so ODNI were saying this is real. And it was all government agencies. It wasn't just specific ones, but it was mandating, we want reporting. That's correct. We want officers and agencies to report this.

That's correct. And you did. I did. So there came a time when you came across a cluster of videos that you thought were important. There was I had enough evidence I thought and asked around whether I could use these or show these in any form or fashion and I got a verbal uh permission.

It might not have been the way the government uh releases stuff but at that time I I show I I asked permission to show them to friends, family, other people and you know use them for this report and I was given permission. Were the videos carrying any kind of top secret or above classification? There are stuff in those videos that are law enforcement sensitive and I made uh sure to to uh take care with that stuff. So you acted responsibly. At no stage did you do anything that breached your security oath. I would say no.

Good. You made a decision to provide those videos to a colleague, didn't you? I did. I met uh a guy by the name of Annie Marshall and who ran a uh social media account and showed him those videos. He he was one of the ones that got to see those. Why did you do that? I just believed in what he was doing.

He uh he ran a very interesting social media uh platform. Uh he was very uh thorough in looking at all the videos. I thought he used discernment. He was a tough talking New Yorker and I thought he was the perfect person to show these to and and I got a you know wanted to also get a different opinion about what they may be from a civilian perspective as well. As a member of the media, can I ask why didn't you go to the media? Well, at the time, uh, I think they were reporting it in a, uh, different way than I was comfortable with releasing them to.

There was a sensationalism about it, and I didn't want it to be wrapped up in in any, uh, biased or sensational piece of news. Were you worried that the media wouldn't be taking these seriously? I mean, there seems to be a sad history of media ridiculing and stigmatizing. Well, that that, too. And there's also the fact that these videos don't show some of the profound things that have been, you know, labeled such as the five observables. One of them does, one of the videos does show that, but the other ones uh don't show those direct five observables, which you know gives you pause and and kind of boxes them in in a sense.

and and I I felt they were profound enough and didn't show anything that the majority of the people that I showed them to could recognize being drones or balloons or birds or otherwise. So, what characterized these videos? Why had they been kept by border protection? Well, they weren't necessarily kept. They were kind of just archived. Like I said, anything that's going to have a nexus to smuggling, our guys would would want to know about, right? So, if it's a drone carrying a narcotics load or otherwise, that would be something that they would use to uh, you know, change our tactics as well. So, I can imagine there are a lot of cartel drones, organized crime drones coming over the border.

Apparently, there are now. Yes. I'm far removed. Would you say that you and your colleagues were pretty damn good at picking a drone from any other type of object? I would say all the agents were good at that. Not just the guys that I worked with, but the guys that operated the cameras in the air and the guys that operated the cameras on the ground.

Yes. The crucial thing is that with the forward-looking infrared, you can see whether it's a drone. You can. They have distinct signatures that allow you to make that determination. What is it about a drone that makes it so distinguishable? Well, they have engines, you know, that generate heat.

So you're able to see the signatures of these uh you know vehicles by how they are propelled through the air. Without giving away any national security secrets, how far away an object can you see with these systems, these incredible optics in miles? Miles. And you were seeing strange objects. Absolutely. Hundreds of objects that couldn't be explained.

Well, there was reports from agents of hundreds of objects that they couldn't explain. Me personally, I've only seen, you know, a handful at a time, but the other pilots and stuff that I worked with, you know, would equal up to that. Yes. But you began to realize there was a pattern of anomalous objects that couldn't be explained. That's correct.

They weren't drones. They weren't balloons. What were they? Well, some of them were mundane objects. Some of them were balloons. You ruled those out.

Well, believe it or not, you know, those myar balloons float long distances. You'll find those things out in the middle of nowhere sometimes. So, those are a concern as well, but we've seen those. We know what those look like. We've seen them flying through the air.

These were things that weren't known that that didn't have the signature of of balloons, whether they were latex or myar. So, what did Andy do with the videos? Andy put them out there and uh released them to the public. And what happened? He he he took a lot of heat for doing so. He really did. There was a lot of people that thought these just showed mundane objects.

How did you respond to that? I personally didn't respond. Andy was the one that responded and uh his social media platforms were attacked. He he he was attacked by the general public with comments and disparaging remarks. So, the pair of you made a decision to do something, didn't you? We did. It was I I I I felt good about giving those to Andy's, but when I gave them to Andy, it was more of a gift.

I washed my hands at them at that point in time. It was just something for the public to see. What was the reaction inside Border Protection when it became public that these videos were now sitting on a server for the public to see? Well, you're you're talking about the uh August uh 2023. Oh, no. Sorry.

I'm talking about when Andy got the videos. He posted them pretty quickly. I I never heard. I was actually employed while some of those were being released. So I never heard Were your bosses hostile? No, they weren't hostile at all.

So there's no cover up inside Border Protection. Your bosses aren't covering up for some dark program. No, not at all. They were supportive of your UAP investigations. Well, I don't know if they were supportive.

The the the main boss that I was working for that put me on this task, he was ultimately in control who I was developing this product for, right? So he was supportive of him. Crucially, nobody's trying to shut you down. No one's trying to shut me down. And when Andy put those videos up online, I was never disciplined for him. Nobody told you off.

No one told me off. Well, full marks and credit to Border Protection for having the courage as a public organization to support a good officer like yourself. Well, I was happy to help the the public in doing so. Was it a difficult decision? It was, I think, always in the back of your mind. uh you know accessing a government computer and doing what I did is is obviously you know not something that's done on a regular basis there there people have taken cell phone videos of government computers you can you can find those out so that weighed on me heavily uh you know for one I didn't want to be in trouble for national security violations in any form or or fashion but I wasn't doing it for nefarious purposes Rob I was doing it for safety safety considerations why did you do it for safety considerations.

Ross, that was, like I said, I felt strongly. I flew personally as well, and I didn't want to have a strike with one of these, just like what you described with the F-16. You were concerned somebody might get killed. Absolutely. Absolutely.

So, the blowback continued from the skeptics and the debunkers. They did. They uh you get the gamut of stuff. It's birds, it's balloons, it's drones. I have to admit at this time I remember reading about it and thinking the rubber duck video looked ridiculous and I remember thinking oh well it's just rubbish and then what did you do? You made a decision to refer it on to another group.

Absolutely. And that was that was done by uh Andy. Andy had the foresight to be able to if he was going to release these, he wanted to release these or release the rubber duck in the right way and it was sent off to the scientific coalition for unexplained aerial phenomenon. So that went and was was peer-reviewed by their guys specifically by Peter Reali and he generated a report. That report was going to get stuck into my report that was going to go to my boss but unfortunately I retired uh before it was complete.

Your health issues? I do have health issues. Are they related to the job you've been doing? I can't say they are. Not at least not for the border patrol. But it's taken a toll on you. Your health.

It has taken a toll on me. Has whistleblowing taken a toll on you? It has. It has. I I personally am divorced now. I live in a different state than, you know, I I I'm from Tucson.

I I now live in a a different state because of it. Sir, I hope one day there comes a time in America where people like you who've had the courage to come forward are properly recognized and honored. I appreciate that, sir. Thank you. Did you explore the possibility in the course of your research that what you were seeing were black projects, secret US weapons or aerospace programs? Oh, certainly that was always, you know, one of the possibilities that one of these videos could have been.

We could it could have been a capture of you know US technology for sure. And I don't think any of us want to jeopardize a national security imperative. If we do have 100 foot wide black triangles that can operate with any without any visible means of propulsion. I like the idea that it's America that's got it. I I like that as well.

Did anybody ever come to you when you were doing your research knowing that you were doing this work for border protection and say, "Look, in the interests of national security, we ask you to stop." No. And as a matter of fact, Ross, I got more uh videos. It it when the first one came, I got made aware of another one and then another one popped up. So people were kind of relieved for the first time they were being allowed to talk about this issue. I think so.

I think you know all of those videos show something you for the most part different. And as an operator of those cameras, you don't know what they are. So, you don't want to call agents over there if if you know, for example, the the Lab Bruha video, it looks like a a a witch cruising through the through the desert. What are you going to what are you going to tell an agent? Can you go over there and look at this witch that's cruising through the desert? It that's you know, that's something that uh you know, agents have to come to terms with, you know, and if one of these things went down out in the desert, the Border Patrol agents might be the first one out there as well. So, I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but I'm interested to know, you saw the David Grush revelations that came out in June 2023.

I did. What was your take? I was flabbergasted just like anyone else was. And and knowing that the government may have uh nonhuman intelligence or craft of other uh dimensions, planets or otherwise, is is is fairly exciting, intriguing, and and uh disturbing at the same time. The allegations that David made were essentially that there is a non-human intelligence that's been engaging with this planet for a very long time. The US is secretly aware of it.

It's been recovering alien non-human technology and somewhere in America, it's got facilities where it's secretly attempting to backgineer it. It's extraordinary allegations. Those are extraordinary allegations for sure. When you heard that though, did it put some things together in your mind about what you had been hearing about from your operatives in the field in the border protection? Well, absolutely. Especially being in a military training area, you have to test that technology out in some form or fashion.

You're not going to be flying it over large cities for the most part. At least that would be my impression. So, where else would you fly it on a military training range that's vast and wide? But why would they test machinery such advanced technology when they surely know that they're a border protection aircraft with sophisticated imagery systems? What better place to do it with guys that have security clearances already? But wouldn't they have tried to shut you down if they'd known that you were doing this research? I can't speculate as to what their intentions would be. David's allegation is that there is an incredibly secret operation known as the program where the United States is trying to backineer this technology, this alien technology in secret facilities. Do you find that even remotely plausible? Well, with the reports of the agents and the things that I've seen, it's certainly possible, especially where we see the items at or see the objects at the objects out on the anytime you see any of that stuff on a uh military reservation or or bombing range.

It certainly could be uh our own technology. Now, we're not going to go through each individual uh video here, but I do want to talk with you about the findings that were made by SCU about the rubber duck video, okay? Because that's the primary focus of the SCU report. What did they determine? They determined that the rubber duck was an anomalous object. They couldn't explain it. They ruled out drones.

They ruled out drones. They ruled out balloons. We actually had a a 20 plus year Fleer Depot level technician do a pretty good analysis of it as well. He's seen every gamut of what you could possibly see on Fleer. Looked at it from different perspectives as well.

And it it knows how those cameras work very intricately. So he couldn't figure out what it was either. Did it stop the debunkers and the skeptics? Nope. They continued on. They continued on the uh with the attack.

And I think it only stopped until that SCU report came out. When the SCU report made its findings that the rubber duck video was genuinely anomalous, did that put an end or did it slow the level of criticism from the skeptics and debunkers? I would say yes. I mean, I I wasn't actively involved in in social media, but I did monitor Andy's uh Instagram account, and it it seemed to it brought a lot of vindication for what we had put forward. Can I ask you this? Do you think it's understood in mainstream media and authoritative, if you like, official commentary that the independent group of scientists have made this determination that the rubber duck video is genuinely anomalous? Extremely valuable. And I think that just gives them another piece in which they, you know, the next video they get, they'll have a But do you think, I mean, it's often been misreported, I think, in mainstream media.

Do you think that mainstream media have fairly and accurately reported the significance of what SCU found? No, not at all. Not at all. And I don't even think I've seen any reports from uh mainstream media about the SCU, which is unusual, isn't it? I mean, it is unusual. If an authoritative group of scientists had made a determination about any other issue, you'd think it would be given some degree of credibility in the media. They have a they have a a top-notch group of scientists working for them over there.

And I would think that would be highly credible especially with what they find. But it was significant for you and Andy at least because you'd done the right thing. Andy had made the decision to put it before SCU. It's anomalous. Yes.

And I think in having that independent exam of it was extremely valuable. Why did they decide it showed an object that was anomalous? Because of the different characteristics that it had. So there were no no heat source on it. It moved in a weird and strange way. Uh I don't know if you're aware of that, but it was it was doing some kind of weird circle pattern.

So it seemed to be searching for something. So this is important on the video. It looks like it's going in a straight line. It does. It looks like it's going in a straight line.

Is it? No, it's not going in a straight line. And they were able to figure that out by looking at the GPS location references on the video. That's correct. that all that data was provided. And what did that analysis by SCU's Peter Rialei show? It showed that the object was circling and the plane was circling.

So they were both going around each other, which was quite quite odd. And that the the actual operator of the camera seemed to think that it was uh making a search pattern. So this is an object that is intelligently controlled. It appears that way. It's searching for something.

It appeared that way. What was it searching for? Your guess is as good as mine. In your investigations, did you ever go to the location where this object was seen? I have worked out in that area, but I did not go to the exact location that it was seen. It would be an interesting question, wouldn't it? What What is it about the features of that location? Perhaps the mineral composition. It would it would absolutely be worth checking out.

Would there be something underneath? That's a distinct possibility, too. There's lots of mines and caverns out there. There would probably be something called Quinn's Gate that might be worth checking out out there as well. Well, let's talk about Quinn's Gate. What's Quinn's Gate? Ancient folklore about a gate that may be uh a portal of some sort.

It's a rock structure. There's plenty online that you can find out about Quinn's Gate, but it's long been rumored to be some sort of portal and they've seen anomalous objects near it as well, which fits the definition of where all these pilots are seeing this stuff. And this location, Quinn's Gate, is very near where very near to where the rubber duck was filmed. Interesting coincidence, I'd say. So, so SCU make this determination that this is an anomalous object.

Is there any response? Have you become aware of any response at all from either your former department or any government agency? Not that I know of. Like I said, Ross, I kind of washed my hands from this after I gave these videos to Andy and retired from the Border Patrol. But crucially, maybe it might be better coming from Andy. This I understand that there was eventually some kind of tacet acknowledgement by a government agency that this rubber duck video was indeed anomalous. There was CBP actually did a release.

Okay, slow down. CBP is what for our audience? The US Customs and Border Pro protection did do a a release kind of a uh a document dump per se. They released some of the things that I was working on as well as uh videos as well. And what did that document dump show? The document dump had a lot of the work that I, like I said, that I was working on, but it also had my personal emails and and uh text messages as well corresponding about uh what I was doing. So, what was it in the documents that were released by Customs and Border Protection that underlined the fact that this rubber duck video was anomalous? Well, for one, it came from the Department of Homeland Security.

It showed that it was an authentic video that was coming from them and that was, you know, part of the operations, per se. But what what declaration, if any, did they make about the the video? They personally didn't make any determinations about it. They just released it. And I think their maybe their uh response was let the public decide. But basically there's no finding by Customs and Border explaining what that object was.

It was a very vague uh release of documents and videos. I don't think uh the Department of Homeland Security has uh commented on it. You would appreciate that it's fundamental to David Grush's allegations that implicitly there are facilities that are hiding nonhuman technology. It's pretty disturbing. The allegation is that this is being hidden from the American public, which is equally disturbing.

But by definition, if it's true, there has to be facilities somewhere in the United States where these objects are being hidden. I I would think that would be correct, of some secret military base or some remote location that they may be contained. With the benefit of hindsight, do you think it's plausible that the objects that were reported to you by border protection officials and indeed videoed might be evidence of some kind of black US program? Perhaps underground facilities in Arizona. It It's possible for sure it's possible. It's a vast area.

That training area, the military training area out there where the agents work is a vast area. So, it's interesting because if it was legal, I would have expected men in dark suits to turn up to your boss's office and say, "Can you please tell this Bob guy to pull his head in?" That's correct. They didn't, did they? They didn't. But, you know, maybe they've upgraded from the old stories to something newer. But, do you think that people would have become aware of your investigations? It would have been pretty widely known that you were doing this research, wouldn't it? the the guys in my office and shop knew I was doing stuff with UAPs.

So the Department of Homeland Security knew that you were doing investigations into UAPs. At least at least a couple of my supervisors for sure. So if there was an authorized, congressionally approved, funded program doing proper legal investigations into lordable recovered investigations into recovered non-human technology. You would think that there would be a quiet word given to your bosses and just ask Bob to go quiet on that one. You would think so.

You would think so. And that didn't happen. That did not happen. Let's talk about Sedona. There are a large number of witnesses who've independently said to us that they have seen very similar objects to what your border protection officials describe around Sedona.

a place tantalizingly described as Secret Mountain. Have you ever heard of interesting activity around Sedona? I have heard of interesting activity around Sedona and I've personally been out to Sedona camping and spent time out there exploring an area that's uh known for having some of that activity. And have you seen any of that yourself? I did not. I I personally did not see any activity while I was there doing an doing some looking around, but uh a lot of other people did. We have witnesses who claim that they have been confronted in the forest by men with guns purporting to be government but not showing any ID telling them that if they don't leave they will be murdered.

I have not seen that personally. But do you think it's plausible that the military might be locating a facility adjacent to a place like Sedona? I mean is that even likely? Why would the military locate themselves close to a major tourist attraction? Well, it's a tourist attraction for multiple reasons. Not only its beauty, but it's also known and rumored to contain vortexes and energy healing centers. So, that might be something a non-human intelligence or a government program would be interested in. But more importantly, it might also provide cover, might not.

It might also provide cover. It would be so easy to dismiss sightings as a bunch of loopy tinfoil hat crazies looking at strange objects in the sky and believing what they want to believe. That would be correct. So you'd be familiar with the way national security works in the United States. There are levels of secrets.

That's correct. So when you were briefed as a top secret cleared employee, you knew that not above but parallel with the top secret level of classification, there are compartments of information. That's right. And that's secure compartmented information facilities and that the rubber duck video actually made its way into that uh initially. But when you obtained it, it was no longer top secret.

it was no it was no longer uh classified in that fashion. So there are special access programs, there are um unacnowledged special access programs, ASAPs from what I've heard. And there are things called Wooaps, waved unagnowledged special access programs. And they are secrets that are so important to US national security that Congress only a few a few people in Congress can be cleared to know about them if at all. And that's the gang of eight.

Do you know about this system? I I'm familiar a little bit with the system, but uh as far as any knowledge about how it operates or works, that's not in my wheelhouse. But the fascinating thing that I've discovered in my research is that it's not a wooap. I've spoken to people who've served on the gang of eight and they tell me they were never cleared. If there is such a secret program operating in America, even the the toughest, biggest, most important secrets of all, the waved, unacknowledged special access programs, the WOsPs, the gang of eight, to their knowledge, has never been briefed into such a program. You're a patriot, aren't you? I am.

I like the idea that America might have this technology. I like it as well. But does it concern you as a loyal, patriotic American citizen that Congress may not have been properly informed? I would think that would be an an important step. There should be at least a little bit of oversight involved with it and and and uh used in a responsible manner. Now, one of the funny things about doing a story like this is you have to get used to military acronyms.

We've talked about WooPs, waved unacknowledged special access programs. And there are also things cutely called dums. Do you know what a dum is? That's a deep underground military base from my understanding. Do you know of deep underground military bases yourself? Just rumors. You've never seen one? I've never seen one.

You're not holding out on us? I'm not holding out on you. But clearly there are deep underground military bases, some of which have even become public. There's Raven Rock, which is where the US government is meant to be taken to in the event of nuclear war. And I'm familiar with that. The continuity of operations programs.

I'm personally I'm a master exercise practitioner. So, designing exercises and and exercising that component is is an important piece. So, I'm aware of the the the reason why they would uh utilize facilities like that. And where would you locate such a facility? What would you look for locating a deep underground military base? That's out of my wheelhouse. I would I would refer that to a geologist.

There was probably scientists that would have a better answer to that question. But it's plausible that you would use remote areas. Remote location would be my first choice. And one of the things Arizona is good at is having remote locations. And Sedona does report there's an enormous number of people in the Sedona area who are saying there are weird things happening in our skies.

There weird things for sure in the skies of Sedona. It's not just I've heard it from people visiting there. Not just the locals but people visiting as well. There's even a cement works where locals report seeing large articulated lorries carrying very heavy concrete sections. They disappear into a building and they don't come out.

The suggestion is that it's owned by Loheed Martin through a front company, the Clark Dale Cement Works. I'm not aware of that. They do have a facility in Mesa that that I know uh about, but Loheed Martin's name bobs up in the Custard many times in this investigation. Loheed Martin, Northrup, Grumman, Rathon, Rathon, Patel. There's many of the same old names, aren't there? going right back to the 50s and the 60s.

That's correct. I grew up here in Tucson and Rathon and Hughes Aircraft was the it was Hughes Aircraft before it was Rathon and Hughes was always an important part of the Tucson community and and let's be clear, these companies have done fantastic things for the defense of America. Absolutely. They're ludable aerospace companies that have done a great deal to protect our country. Absolutely.

And yet there's a question mark. Well, they have technology. They have certain programs that I'm sure develop uh for future weapons or future platforms or any other items that are going to go towards national security. One of the things I know that you took a special interest in during your work as a border protection official are the Native American stories and the um pictoglyphs. That's correct.

What do they show? What were the things that you saw in the course of your research that made you just question whether this is a phenomenon that's been around for a lot longer? Well, there's anything from pictures of beans on these rocks to to uh star charts or maps that seem to coincide with, you know, stuff in the sky, uh objects that may be seen in the sky, triple dots, stuff like that that seem to not make any rational sense as to why they would be on there. But they're usually found in some of those areas that have these high uh incidents of uh UAPs reported. Now Bob, I just want to ask this investigation that you did for border protection. This wasn't just some idle freelance thing that you did on your spare time. You were clearly authorized by your bosses to do it.

No, I had definitely had a boss that wanted me to put together a paper for him to show to probably his superiors. And to your knowledge though, has it been acted upon? No, not that I to my knowledge, I'm retired. I would not have access to that information. Isn't that unusual to to not have it carried on or to have access to that information? I mean, no disrespect to you, but if I was a boss in Border Protection and I've got operatives, agents telling me that there are hundreds of anomalous objects, including a gigantic black triangle that's 100 foot wide. coming close to the border with Mexico.

I would regard that as a national security issue. I would think so. But uh I think the problem is what can you do about it? Where they're they're working on uh intelligence and and visualization of these items that have a nexus to smuggling. They're worried about fentanyl coming in. They're worrying about these drones delivering narcotics, you know, in in the different areas that they patrol.

I think the the large black triangles and orbs and other things are just not in their wheelhouse. There came a time there were other there were other videos that you found, weren't there? There was I got another video from the u the original uh uh guy that filmed the rubber duck video. Now, that video is out there. We we didn't release that like we did the other ones, but that one is certainly available to be viewed. What do you call that one? That one I think is known as the cigar video.

So the same person that videoed from a surveillance aircraft the rubber duck video. Yes. Provided you with another video. That's correct. It's just not as of the same quality as the rubber duck video.

It was filmed with a cell phone. And I think more more than anything uh my uh companion showed it to me to kind of get my uh opinion on it. So I know the guy. uh he's a friend of mine and I think he wanted to know whether it was maybe even the same thing as the rubber duck. It just couldn't be determined because there wasn't enough data and I thought the video was of, you know, not the greatest quality.

What what conclusion did you reach about it? Much like the other ones, I was open for whatever it may be. I I have a a pretty open mind. anything from uh anomalous uh interdimensional interplanetary to even the mundane uh object. Maybe I was, you know, maybe we're seeing something different mundane that it could possibly be. But from my understanding and and my experience operating those cameras, it's nothing that I've ever seen before.

Bob, there are probably people watching this who work in positions very similar to yours in government agencies all over the United States. In fact, I like to think that this documentary might be seen by people all over the world. What would you say to people who know things, who are aware of anomalous objects five years on from your decision to go public? Um, do you regret that decision? Have you ever had cause to wish that you hadn't done what you do? No, I think uh I feel like after you have access to this information and you see some of these things, it's almost a responsibility to help share it with others and bring awareness about the subject. What do you say to people who just default ridicule and stigmatize and treat with taboo this subject? Well, I would say look up in the sky because you probably see something and you're not going to see it by uh looking down at your phone all the time. We've been manipulated, haven't we? I do believe so.

We've been told these objects don't exist. Or are swamp gas or Venus or any of the old terms. I think bird and drone are just the new swamp gas and Venus. So, you don't accept that these are all drones. The way and the way they moved and the characteristics of some of these things defies what is known as a drone for the most part here.

I mean, do drones operate at 36,000 ft at 575 miles an hour? None that I know of. And I've operated a few drones. These are genuine unexplained phenomena. They are. And yet, nobody seems to care.

Well, it gets back to the adage what I was saying before. Unless it has a nexus to smuggling, I don't think it's in the the Border Patrol's wheelhouse. That's all right. I don't buy that. I don't buy that.

Do you think there's something more here? Is somebody shutting down this debate inside government? I I can't say that for sure, but uh like I said, I just don't think it's in the the Border Patrol has other things to worry about right now, and they're just not it would appear they're just not worried about UAPs or the Department of Homeland Security. I can't I can't, like I said, I I am retired now and I can't speak for the Department of Homeland Security, but while I was working there, it just wasn't something that was reported. And I don't think it was something that they worried about. The cartels smuggling people and drugs over the border. They're dangerous people.

That's what they were worried about. That's what the border patrol is worried about. They got money and weapons of and weapons of mass destruction. What we're looking at is billions of dollars in this black industry. They do.

Is it plausible that they've developed technology that we don't yet know about that might explain all of these objects? Well, with having an unlimited budget, you would probably, you know, be able to field technology that, you know, less fortunate people would have. Is it your suspicion, though, that there's something non-human behind what we're seeing? That's my impression. You really do believe that? I really do believe that. So, you think what we're seeing may be in fact non-human technology? I think it you could remove technology. I I I can't say for certain it's technology that's occurring.

It may be something that we're completely unaware of. The thing I find fascinating is a lot of the witnesses around Sedona describe these objects, triangles, orbs, craft of some kind. And next to them, apparently escorting them are Apache helicopters, Blackhawk helicopters. What's going on? I personally can't comment on that because I haven't seen anything like that. I have seen when I was in the military uh a B1 bomber being escorted by chase planes in in the northern in at the National Training Center in Fortn California.

So that seems to fit a pattern of how they would escort something like that around. And the and the and the the B2 bomber looks like a UFO anyway. So, from a side profile, having two chase planes alongside that thing would give that impression. So, I haven't seen anything Sedona and I haven't heard of uh or know anyone that's seen exactly what you described. Well, 5 years ago, you made a decision to do a big thing for you as a covert operator inside Border Protection.

You made the decision to go public with information that you think the public has a right to know. I I I do have a a strong opinion that I think the public needs to know about what's flying around over the deserts of southwest Arizona. That's for sure. This is a flight safety and a national security concern. I think you can combine those two together for sure and that that gives a better case as to why this should be, you know, out in the public.

Are you confident that there has been any kind of adequate investigation into the issues you raised? I just don't have access to that information. I'd like to think that the legacy of my work would continue on and have some sort of meaning meaningful impact and allow the guys to be able to report stuff like that, but honestly, Ross, I'm so far removed from the Border Patrol right now, I wouldn't have access to that information. But when for example the Pentagon's UAP investigation office, the all domain anomaly resolution office makes a finding as it did in 2024 that there is no evidence of extraterrestrial visitation to this planet. There is no evidence of any US secret program. Do you think they've really tried to look? I don't think so.

And I and I find it actually very disrespectful to the scientists that put in the time at SCU to look at the rubber duck video and stuff that could have been included in that report which was deemed anonymous by or anomalous by you know senior scientists that have a lot of years of experience. So so crucially you haven't seen any proper official investigation at least in the public domain to deal with the issues that were quite ludably addressed by SCU in its objective assessment of that video. I have not seen that. Would you like to see it? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Bob, when I first saw those videos, particularly the rubber duck video, I have to admit I giggled. It just seemed so absurd. I thought it was rubbish. It It's a funny name for a video. Uh the object is funny looking in the video.

It's unexplained. So, let's talk about the petetroglyphs. I'm fascinated in your work as a border protection officer. You actually got to learn a lot about the Native American culture in the same area, didn't you? I did. Uh and and where I worked uh mainly was the Tona Odum Indian Reservation, which is out kind of by Cells, Arizona.

south of there there are uh sacred sites that the toon OD people have and I got to go around and explore some of those when I wasn't you know fully engaged in arresting uh people and the thing I find fascinating is there are ancient petetroglyphs on the wall aren't there there are what do they show a lot of them show different beings that uh could be described as maybe extraterrestrial different shapes of people there's even uh uh petetroglyphs that have three dots three orbs looking type things on them. And you saw those many times. I've seen those. Yes. I've seen them all over the state, as a matter of fact.

And what did the Native American Indians tell you? They were stuff that comes from the sky. So, they talk about this. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's and it's not just uh it's not just uh uh other people talk about that as well within the Native American.

And it's starting to make more uh mainstream uh kind of public information news for the most part. Bob, this all begs the question, all the evidence you've seen, the data on your assessment, are we alone? I'm open for all kinds of possibilities. Everything from maybe a spiritual or divine uh encounter all the way to nuts and bolts or even a more mundane. But for me, the mundane side of it, I always try to look at things and and try to explain it away first with the more mundane items. Uh, that's just the way I have always been my entire life.

And I have thousands of hours on those cameras looking at, you know, different objects, everything from coyotes to rabbits to the moon even. And there are things in those videos that I can't explain. And what they are, uh, they could be beings for all we know. They could be the rubber duck shows something that even was discussed as being someone flying through the sky in the lotus position. So, I'm open to all those possibilities.

But if what you're talking about is true, this is the biggest secret in human history, isn't it? It is. But has it not been going on and been reported all throughout history as well? We just have better technology to capture it right now instead of a painting or a the side of a boulder. The cigar, are you willing to share that cigar video with us? Absolutely. I will uh let you guys watch that cigar video and and show it to you. uh getting that video.

It was not released with the other ones just because we didn't think it showed as profound of of objects, but it still was was valuable uh showing that the that the agents do see stuff on a on a continual basis. Okay, Bob. So, the video is the one that nobody's seen before. What do you call it? It's been named the uh cigar video. Why is it called the cigar? It's got the the the object that's being observed in the the camera is got the shape of a cigar.

It's a kind of a short stubby cigar shape. And when was it taken? What was the circumstances in which it was taken? Uh it was taken fairly close to around the time that the rubber duck was. Maybe within a few months or so. Uh the agent that filmed the rubber duck sent it to me. He wanted me to look at it and see what I thought of it.

So the same man who recorded the rubber duck video, that's correct. was involved in the recording of this new video that nobody's seen before. That's correct. Okay. So, let's have a look at it.

All right. Okay. So, that's the object you're talking about. It's like a stubby little cylinder. That's correct.

I can see why they call it a cigar. It's very blurry. It is blurry. And I felt that it just didn't provide enough data. I showed I showed Andy it, but it just we didn't feel like it it warranted uh it does seem to be moving incredibly fast.

It does seem to be moving fast, and that could be due to the parallax effect as well, but do you agree that it there's some kind of trail behind it? There does appear to be a trail behind it, but I don't I can't tell. It's such a low quality video that it could very well be artifact, camera artifact. Oh, right. Okay. So it could be pixelization.

It's not something that was actually there. It's just a pixelation. No, but but at the same time that could be something that was attached to it as well. You know, maybe it was a you know something on a That is odd right there. Sure is.

Is there anything we can determine from any of the data? Like can you read in the original video any of the data? No, unfortunately you can't. It's it's just not a clear enough video. And like I said, I don't think they when when they saw it, they wanted my opinion for sure, but I I just didn't think it it it held the value like the other ones did. So, is it is it hot or cold, that object? Well, looking at the terrain right now, I can't I can't see the settings for the the camera because they're blurred out, but to me, it looks like that is probably black hot because the trees are are white hot. So, that would be hot in my opinion, maybe.

I mean, it almost looks like a missile. Could it be the Air Force testing a missile? That's a distinct possibility where it was filmed at. Maybe it's some sort of, you know, cruise missile or smart missile that's flying and, you know, being tracked, but it doesn't appear to have, you know, a vapor trail or anything else that would uh cuz you'd expect a glowing propulsion. You would think it would be so questionable. Just you can't say one way or the other.

Can't say what it is. I just at that point in time there did look like there was kind of a contrail but I just don't think there's enough data to ascertain what it is. I mean even even there at that point it looks like it may could even be a combination of black hot and white hot. Uh there the thing I find fascinating is that in the foid US Air Force reports there are pilots that report coming across cylindrical objects at hugely high altitudes. Well, that might fit the bill.

Could it be the Tic Tac? The legendary Tic Tac? Uh, that would be incredibly tough to say because I think that thing's only been seen near uh bodies by the ocean and stuff. Is that correct? I don't know to be perfectly honest. I mean, I think people have seen cylindrical UFOs for many decades. It very well could be. I like I said, I just don't think there's enough data to make any determination with this.

I would certainly love to see a clear uh a clearer version of this video to maybe uh make that determination, but I myself couldn't make a determination of what it was. The frustrating lesson from this particular video is what ODNI, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, mandated in 2021 was the collection of all of this data on unidentified anomalous objects. Go. It's so important because you're the border protection guys at the time. You don't know what this was.

No. No, not at all. And that's a concern. I think so. And yet everywhere in our administration of government, I see a deafening silence about videos like this and the four other videos you've shown us.

It It's It's concerning. It it's certainly concerning knowing that whatever it is is flying around out in areas where I used to work for sure and there are people actively working. By definition, these have to be investigated, don't they? I would think it would be imperative to see what their you know what what the intent of these things are. Would this incident have been kept and recorded on file somewhere inside Border Protection? maybe with the the platform that it was recorded from, not with uh border protection itself because as you can hear in the video, you can hear the engines running of the the RC26 aircraft, which is an air uh national guard asset. It's frustrating, isn't it? It must been very frustrating for you to have hundreds of reports from Border Patrol agents clearly suggesting this is something that was of sufficient concern for them to report it to you.

I think so. Uh during the during the course of my duties, you know, it didn't go out as a solicitation that, you know, I was on a detail that was trying to gather this data up. Uh maybe if it would have and not had a stigma associated with it or taboo associated with it, maybe I would have gotten more videos from agents, but like I said, I've gotten, you know, eyewitness reports, statements from agents that have told me that they've seen other things, including, you know, openings of portals even on on some of these cameras. So I I take all that bigger pattern. So agents have told you they've seen portals portals opening in the sky.

Stuff stuff in the sky filmed by Fleer camera. Just some of the stories I've heard, Russ. Whoa, hold up. That's interesting. Yep.

So, what did you get told? I got told that they witnessed a portal opening up in the sky and there were pictures of it on a camera that I was able to see. It wasn't video, but there were pictures. Now, how do they know it was a portal rather than just a glowing orb or something like that? They said they saw something specifically open up and looked at it with the the the camera and took pictures of it with the camera and I saw those pictures. It didn't it didn't reveal to me anything that I could, you know, name. It looked like a blob and a another circle around another blob.

Would that video still exist? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It might. If it does, it's down in Cenoida on uh a handheld thermal camera. So Bob, the next video we want you to look at is I think the most interesting one.

It's the rubber duck video. Now this is importantly, this is the one that was sent by Andy to the scientific coalition for UAP uh studies for analysis and they concluded definitively this object is anomalous. Let's have a look at it. That is the weirdest thing. It does have an odd shape.

Could it be a balloon? Maybe something dangling below the balloon? No, I think you would you would probably see that in the uh the video here. There's clearly enough room that, you know, if there was something dangling, it'd probably be a good 100 foot long, you know, cord if it was, you know, something above it. But to to be honest, this shows, especially in the areas that are dark, that these may even be two separate objects. The weird thing about it is it really does look like a rubber duck. Does look like a rubber duck and that's where the name came from.

Could it be two objects? Well, there's been speculation that it could be two objects and you can see a space clearly between the objects when you go over a dark spot of the of the of the video. And the other thing about it is is it's it it's a lot colder than uh the surrounding areas as well. So what does the fact what does the color of the object in this fluur imagery mean? It shows that that object is extremely cold. So it's not showing heat. It's not showing heat and we know that because the the plane flies over several uh uh cows during the course of the video and those cows will show up as blackot.

Just set the scene for me. Whereabouts is this taken? Okay, so this video is taken down uh just off to the east of of Sassi uh Arizona on a on an area known as the Buenos ARS uh National Wildlife Area. And the air above it is part of a military training. The area above it is part of what is known as the MOA uh Ruby Fuzzy MOA and it's a remote isolated part of the Arizona desert. It is a remote isolated part of the desert.

There are there is a uh a port of entry off to the west that uh you can cross into Mexico. But these guys are out there. Uh they were track and got called for a group of uh illegal aliens that had come through and were out there looking for them when this thing popped through the viewfinder. It just happened to go right where they were looking for the for the bodies. So, there was some speculation at first that this may have been, you know, some kind of cartel distraction to get the the the pilots and and air support off of where the group may have been, but that didn't seem to be the case as this uh continued on.

Okay, devil's advocate for a moment. I mean, it could be perhaps two balloons tied together. Maybe it is that maybe the cartel sent two interesting looking balloons across the border to distract you. it appears just to be drifting erratically in a straight line. Um, unfortunately, SCU's analysis did not show that, Ross.

What this the SCU's analysis showed was that that that object was going in a circular pattern as the as the uh RC26 Metroliner was was also circling over the top of it. They were making two circles at once. Oh, so it's not going in a straight line at all. It's not going in a straight line at all. So the the the aircraft's tracking it as it's moving in a circle.

There was and that's what the SCU report shows as well. So what's in the middle of that circle? Uh that's yet to be determined, but it would be interesting to find out see what it was looking for. And that's the way it was described, Ross. This was described as uh an object uh in some sort of search pattern. So the implications of that are that on the SCU on the scientific coalition for UAP studies analysis this object's clearly intelligently controlled.

Uh it does have that appearance because it's Is it fair to say it was moving in a controlled way? That's what the pilots and the uh the agent that uh gave it to me suggested that it was in a search pattern. They think they thought it was searching for something. They thought it was searching for something and that was even written in the u uh the intelligence report that accompanied it. Were you able to speak to the pilots from the surveillance aircraft that recorded this? I was. And I actually spoke to the sensor operator.

The pilots weren't able to see this. They have a small screen in the front of the cockpit that allows them to see what the what the uh mission sensor uh operator is is filming, but it's it's difficult for them because it's not on a large screen. The mission sensor operator described it just as we have said. They seem to think it was searching from something, but they didn't know 100%. Their only uh thing that they could pair it to was maybe a drone or a balloon.

So, SCU, the Scientific Coalition for UAP Studies, has ruled out the possibility that it was a balloon or a drone. Yeah, it'd be interesting to talk to the pilots and the sensor operator now because I don't think they know that information and maybe this will help them uh you know in the future. Could it be some kind of technology that that the US is testing in this remote part of the desert and unwittingly got caught by your surveillance cameras? That's a distinct possibility, especially with the uh you know kind of the climate of of the Air Force bases and the private military contractors that are around the area. They certainly could be testing out something. I can't say for sure what it is.

I have to say it's a ridiculous looking object. It is a ridiculous looking object. I think the I think for the public domain though, the crucial point to make is whilst it looks like it's moving in a straight line, you've got an aircraft that's circling as it's circling. One of the one of the stranger things that I've heard, uh, there was an individual that, uh, said it it looked like a a man seated in lotus position flying across the desert. That was one of the odder explanations that I had heard.

It's certainly pretty weird, but definitely anomalous. Well, it's similar to some of the other ones, too. At at times this object does appear to to uh kind of look like uh one of the other ones that we have which is lab bruha. Bob, one of the problems I have with a lot of videos I get sent by people is they're blurry. They don't show much.

But the cool thing about this video was that for the first time from the border protection videos, you were able to take it to a bunch of scientists who could analyze the data, the headings, the GPS points. That's correct. I think the data sets are probably one of the more important parts of that video. So that's corroborative evidence. Corroative evidence.

You've also got the eyewitness evidence. Eyewitness, the sensor operator, the sensor operator and the agent and the what? Sorry, and the agent as well as the border patrol. Oh, so there was a border patrol agent sitting in the aircraft sitting next to the sensor operator. So two sets of human eyes looking at that object. Human eyes looking at that human object.

They think it's weird. They think it's weird. The video when you analyze it and look at the implications of these data sets, the GPS locations, the speed, is it moving particularly fast? No, it's not moving overly fast, but it it was certainly moving fast enough for them to uh, you know, warrant looking at it because I think originally they may have thought it was something carrying a carrying an object and and and the person that filmed this, that was one of their concerns as well. But when they observed it long enough, they determined that it didn't appear to be carrying any object. Because you've got to use your brain to watch this video, don't you? If you're a viewer sitting back home, what do you have to understand? It's not moving in a straight line.

It's not moving in a straight line, but it doesn't have the uh the kind of the defined what they are known as the five observables. So, this this is is different in that aspect, but it is showing one of the five observables. It's not showing any visible propulsion system. Not not any visible propulsion system. So the the fascinating thing about this is the two sets of human eyes, the border patrol agent, the sensor operator, they've reached the conclusion based on their analysis, expert witnesses.

This can't be explained well and they felt it important enough to follow it as well for the time frame that they did. So, in many ways, what people have got to do back home is fight the instinctive prejudice to go, look, it just looks like a balloon floating across a landscape. Well, I've not seen any balloons like that. And if it is a rubber duck, you know, maybe a party balloon is flying backwards, not the normal way a party balloon would fly. But crucially, this object is definitive proof of being intelligently controlled.

I don't know if you could go as far as that, but it's certainly doing things that uh make it seem like it is under intelligent control. How significant a video do you think this is? I think it just adds to the the the piece of the puzzle and if it can provide that uh evidence for finding out what's going on in the grander picture, I think it's an important video. But in your book, in your investigation, you were looking for unidentified anomalous phenomena and no doubt about it. The kicker with this one, this is definitely anomalous. Well, it's been deemed that through SEU for sure.

So, I I I am not a a level of scientist in any form or fashion like those guys are, and I hold their opinion in high regard. But it was 2019 when this video was shot. That's correct. So, we're talking five or six years since this video was shot. You've never got an answer for what this was, have you? Not Not unless uh SCU is the answer.

It's anomalous. It's anomalous. And it concerned two operatives inside Border Protection sufficiently that they gave it to you. Yeah, they uh they gave it to me to show it to me. I don't think they knew what I was going to do with it, but once that once once it was looked at enough times by other border patrol agents, I was confident enough in in knowing that it it probably wasn't any of the things that we see on a normal basis, which are balloons and birds and stuff.

So, you can see the miles per hour. It's it's kind of jumping. Yeah. Um but at the peak, it's getting up to 200 miles an hour. Yeah.

I'm not entirely certain that's the speed of it. Uh you'd have to refer to the report to see what that uh showed. What you see on this freeze of the video, there's a distinct dot down in the bottom right hand corner. So let's watch what happens to that dot. So the dot's clearly moving around the aircraft.

It seemed at first the A10 passed that object and then that object for whatever reason decided to catch up to the to the uh A10, it appears. Could that be a balloon? There's no balloons that I know that can travel the speed of an A-10. How fast is the A10 moving? I'm not an expert on A10, but I would assume it's upwards in the couple hundred mile hour range. And could it be a drone? Uh if a drone can travel a couple hundred miles per hour, that's something that uh someone should probably be interested in. Okay.

So, what we're seeing here is it looks like a sphere of some kind. I I don't see any propulsion system on it. Do you? No, I do not. And yet, it's moving at presumably several hundred miles an hour to keep pace with the A-10. Well, and then in addition to that, it appears the A-10 notices it and kind of turns off.

Did you have any opportunity to speak to the pilot? No, I did not. So, this is a US Air Force plane. I've I've only uh spoken to the guy that uh was able to get me this video. That doesn't look like a drone, does it? It does not look like a drone. I mean, with the level of detail you can see of the aircraft here, you'd expect to see propellers.

That's correct. And I think if it was a bird as well, you'd probably see more profound flapping if it was a any bird of uh good size. What have the debunkers said about the video? Everything from birds to drag drones to balloons. It's the normal uh kind of banter. But crucially in the documents that were dumped by the Customs Border Protection, was there any attempt to explain it away? No.

And there wasn't there wasn't a lot of uh uh the the interest was generated uh internally with the guys that were familiar with the truck and had seen it before. and and and like I said, uh once I had put my feelers out for obtaining some of these videos, videos that showed stuff that was anomalous, this one came up and I had actually heard about this one for a while. So, uh once I had the opportunity to get it, I was able to, you know, put it into the share drive where the that that document dump ultimately ended up. What is it? I I I couldn't honestly tell you, Ross. I mean, you agree.

It looks like a some kind of solid maybe perhaps spherical object. It It does. I I think it morphs a little bit, too. At one point in this video, it seemed to be like it was tumbling. So, I don't know.

If you if you compare it to the size of the A10, it could be uh you know, a fairly good size. Maybe that's you know, three feet uh wide, three, four feet wide. I don't know what's the length of an A-10 or the wingspan of an A-10. Were you able to find any explanation for what that object might be? No. And and from my searching looking for any type of incident report that was generated with it, uh came up with nothing.

So I just don't think it was reported. But the interesting thing is you know about this because this was detected by Border Protection. Do do we know if the US Air Force even knows that one of its A-10 aircraft was being tracked by an object? Well, there is some uh there there is the story of the the Air Force coming down and and uh commandering that uh file. Oh, they took the file. We just happened to get it before the Air Force took it.

Tell me more. So, the Air Force came in and I don't know any more than that, Ross. I do know that the Air Force came down with a laptop, plugged it into the truck and took that file and left. No further explanation. No further explanation.

Much like the the other one we talked about, which does suggest that they became aware of it from someone in Border Protection, some someone from Border Protection or maybe it was the pilot that reported and it just took him a while to track down where the where the video was at. The fascinating thing is in the report to Congress, the Pentagon's UAP investigation office claims there's absolutely no evidence of anything that might be non-human. Well, it'd be nice if they saw this video and and I think it adds to uh speculation as to what this could be and I think it shows a pretty interesting piece of evidence. Again, you think this is anomalous? I do think it's anomalous. So the A10 here is clearly being pursued or followed by some kind of object.

Okay. So that object chasing the A10 there. So the fourth video is lab bruha the witch means witch in Spanish. So set this one up for me. So this was filmed on the Tona Odum Indian reservation and it's it's by a a little village by the name of Topawa.

The truck sits up on a hill that kind of overlooks the area that's known for uh smuggling operations by the cartel. This this object was uh something that came into the the frame that the operator clearly saw. I don't have a backstory behind this other than it was just sitting there labeled uh uh Topawa UFO video. Okay. And here it is.

It actually looks like a humanoid form. It moves very bizarrely. Looks like a spaceman. That was one of my first impressions was that it was someone maybe with a jetpack cruising across the desert. Okay.

Could it be a jetpack? I would think it would show something different on the uh camera. You'd probably see a more profound heat signature from a jetpack. So, is that a heat signature? No, because unfortunately, if you look, those cows uh are reflecting back that black hot. So, that means that they are uh the heat's showing black. The object up at the top is white, which means it's ice cold.

Okay. So, let's see what happens. The cows don't react. They don't react, you know, and it's it's difficult to see the perspective there. Those two cows look like they're closer to where uh that object is.

And at that point in time, if you looked, you saw it almost looks like something was coming out of the bottom of the of the object. But if it was a jetpack, you would think it would make quite a ruckus. And any car would be startled by that. You would think so. That's moving seemingly silently across the landscape.

That's correct. And it's quite a large object. It's almost as large as those cows. Well, and you can see uh with reference to the sarro cactus, the sarro cactuses are those black uh line objects there, too. So, it's almost half of the size of one of those in some shots.

It seems to be moving around in its horizontal plane as well. There's a couple of areas where it looks like it makes a turn and maybe even some dust get gets kicked up at one point in time. Could it be the cartel pumping up a balloon and putting a balloon over the border? Well, if it is, it's uh it certainly distracted your border patrol operatives, hasn't it? Uh, I would say so. If if that was a balloon or a cartel uh delivery device, it's uh certainly superior to anything that we have. Because is it is there any evidence that it's moving intelligently? It just seems to be drifting.

Well, there there's there's a place in the video where it looks like it maybe makes a turn. But yeah, I would say that you you couldn't really make the the argument that it is uh under intelligent control, but it but it is moving in in a way that is that the point where it looks like it made a turn. Yeah. Did Did you see that? Yeah. It looked like it leaned over a bit, maybe.

I'm stumped on it. I I uh I have no idea what it is. Why did they call it Lab Bruha? Well, that was Andy's uh that was Andy's uh uh choice. And it resembles a lot of things that were seen down in Mexico and Central America. See, that's where it turns.

Exactly. To me, uh that's certainly anomalous. So, when you were doing your analysis, were you looking at the prevailing weather conditions? I mean, could there have been a wind that maybe blew that as a balloon off course? Certainly. And if it's able to dodge uh some of the cactuses and other things, it's quite a remarkable balloon. So, you actually see that you see it moving away from cactuses.

It appears that way in a couple of the segments there because that's the other issue, too, is it's not, you know, you can delineate a distance because it's moving in front of cactuses at different times. You can see that. You can definitely see that and doing that you can calculate a speed. You could I didn't take the time to calculate the speed. That's uh far past my ability.

But in your view anomalous I I would say so what it could be I couldn't I couldn't even begin to speculate. There's nothing from a mundane standpoint like I said with the hours that I have observing cows and everything else that even makes sense that does what this thing does. What's the story behind this video? So, this video was was uh given me given to me by the same guy that filmed the rubber duck video. He wanted me to take a peek at it and see what I thought of it. So, when I got it, uh one of the first things I noticed was it wasn't the greatest quality.

Is the US government hiding something? I I think that's a question that the American public probably should be asking. And do you think it's a legitimate question? Well, it's a it's a legitimate question that I think is trying to be delegitimized in in public or at least by maybe certain parts of the government. Knowing what you know, have we all in the public arena been hoodwinkedked? Do you think there's a game going on? Somebody's pulling strings to keep this from us? Well, they can tell you that you're not seeing something so many times, but if people are seeing these things, at some point in time, there's going to be a tipping point, it would appear. You think there's something there, don't you? I do think there's something there. What it is, I don't know.

Uh, but I think it uh is non-human. Good on you, buddy. Thank you. Cheers. [Music] Thanks for watching.

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