Dr. Garry Nolan and Beatriz Villarroel on UAP Samples, Science, and Secrecy | The Sol Forum

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[Music] So, here's a I've got a question for both of you, and I I want to I want to ask this because it it says something about um something very unique I think you guys are both doing. in order to approach scientifically um the possibility or the the reality of of uh the UAP presence, you both are drawing correlations um or looking for correlations between historical events and data left behind in historical events involving uh potential UAP and then data that you can really gather in the normal fashion using uh scientific method and and the instruments you need for your science. So, Bantries, you're doing this by drawing correlations between uh historical uh mass UFO events or um events taking place um with nuclear weapons or in conjunction with nuclear weapons. >> Um and then astronomical data. Gary's doing it with um historical um UAP sightings where materials are allegedly left behind and yet he's examining the materials in a way that would be extremely normal within science.

So, you know, maybe both of you could comment on that because I think that's very unusual for scientists to do this outside of uh kind of forensic studies. >> Well, I can start with I'll start with one and then you think of yours, Bea. So um you know for instance I've been looking at the Ubatuba uh sample and uh I the results that I have with Jacques are radically different than those of Robert Powell. Um, and he actually contacted me a couple of weeks ago to let me know. He said, "Well, wait a second, Gary.

I think I I think you're wrong. I I know X." And so, we've been corresponding back and forth about the difference between my results and his. And the short answer is we're both right. And that we might have actually each received different samples. And so, um, we're actually talking right now about seeing whether or not, uh, it's po well, we're going to try to compare and see what it is and, uh, what the chains of custody are for the samples.

Um, and see whether or not it there's, uh, at the very least a paper to put out there on them. Um, but there's there's no way X and Y can be true at the same time. Um, but it's it's a positive interaction where we're going we're looking for the truth of the matter and neither of our egos are involved in the outcome. Except we want the truth. We want to find the truth before the internet trolls do.

>> That sounds good. >> Yeah. No, it's good and it's fun. Yes. >> So, so Bries, uh, maybe you could say a word about this because to me, Betric, one of the things that that struck me about your work when I first encountered you was it I and I've already said it in this interview, but but it was very ingenious of you to look back at these old astronomical plays.

It was a simple decision, but you were able to say, "Look, Pri Sputnik, there shouldn't be anything there." Well, this was a chance thing because I was looking for vanishing stars and then one of course discovers that there are multiple uses of these pre-putnik plates. So, it wasn't I mean uh it came from another work as um initially but then um let me think where it was leading. Um I'm also thinking a little bit about this uh project other projects I have like uh hobby projects where we are like looking at the Baltic Sea anomaly and we also have another case of a possible um crashed UFO and then we also would like to collect samples of course to learn what it is what are these materials and to get them analyzed to know if there's something special about these objects or if they are very mundane things. Um because there's one thing to watch things on images like astronomers we we watch things on the images and we try to interpret them but we don't touch the objects and another thing to actually go there like Gary gets the uh samples the material anal and does the material analysis and we also would like to uh have that opportunity with our projects. So I I think that's the the real goal, not only to think about is like not only to model um or interpret observational signatures, but to actually get a part of such an object and have it in your hand to analyze.

>> So Oh, go ahead, Gary. >> No, it's okay. Well, I I was going to say this is where the two of you in your research very much intersect because you're both interested in in materials uh for this reason. And that brings us to the what's often the omnipresent question with UAP, which is um uh how does secrecy end up intersecting with scientific research? Both of you I think um have have encountered the fact that the US government has had long-standing um interest in UAP and does does treat UAP as an intelligence matter. Um, you know, Gary had a surprise visit from uh intelligence community uh scientists um many years ago um who wanted to speak with him about uh UAP related research and Batrice I think you've had your own encounters with uh people from the intelligence community that have shown a little too much interest in in your research.

So so perhaps both of you could say a word about that. >> Well, I mean my story is well recounted. It was the introduction of me to the medical issues around well ended up being mostly Havana syndrome but uh a host of similar cases but I think again the positive outcome of all of this has been you know I've worked directly and positively now with people from the Senate intelligence uh committees the uh house intelligence committee this is even presole um and uh the FBI who have all come forward in the most positive sense seeking help and advice. So um to the extent that there are you know shadow elements trying to stop stuff the positive aspects of both government and let's call it uh police investigatory uh elements of the government are now stepping forward to at the very least ask for help and have in several cases even military people have offered me personal security if I ever need it. Um because they recognize the value of people stepping forward like this.

Uh so yeah, there's negative, but there's also a fair amount of of of positive. Well, um I I don't know how much I can say about this in um well um but to start with I uh I only work with very transparent data you and I only work with things that you can uh download from online like these um polymer plates that are publicly available. I don't have access to any uh sort of secret stuff and everything that like for example the stuff we do work with the Baltic Sea anomal is going to be public when published. Um but yes there is an interest and I have been approached by curious people um that want to know a lot about the science uh I'm working with including this uh the crash retrieval stuff and um I don't have so much to like it I don't have information that they cannot get in public because I don't have any security clearance I will probably never have it because I'm not good at keeping secrets and I have never signed an NDA. So if if someone sends me someone of these guys or girls or if someone when they have been coming to ask me questions, everything I do is public.

Everything I do can be uh found in my interviews or uh at the universities like official documentation or uh in my papers especially in my papers because a lot of people ask me questions that are actually in the papers but that they don't read. So there is no like big secrets. While the crash retrieval projects are still like um not uh having any public information about them but >> yeah there is >> but a necessary condition of doing doing research uh that would be that that sensitive and and that could be that breakthrough. [Music]