Dr Hal Puthoff Presentation & Q&A, UFO/UAP Disclosure Special.

Transcript

does the u.s government agency example nist or department of energy dod or any private u.s company organization or any similar entity anywhere else in the world have in its possession one or more vehicles in whole or in part built anywhere other than the earth [Applause] hal is the president and ceo of earth tech international and the director of the institute for advanced studies at austin the iasa he's earned his phd from stanford university in 1967 house professional background spends more than five decades of research at general electric sperry and the national security agency stanford university sri international and since 1985 as president of eti and director at iasa he has published numerous papers on quantum physics lasers and space propulsion and has patents issued in the laser energy and communications fields hal regularly serves various foundations corporations and government entities including of course the department of defense and intelligence community as an advisor on leading edge technologies and future technology trends was a senior science advisor and contractor to the dod's ossap and atip program and was a founder of the to the stars academy ttsa i'm pleased to have and introduce dr hal pudoff and hal i'm turning it over to you okay uh you should see my my starting slide is that uh showing up says uap studies managing the transition intelligence problem to scientific problem okay let's start with the intelligence problem as all of us or many of us who are attending this conference know for many years actually several decades the air force had a program to take in reports from the public and also from military people and try to analyze them and come up with some kind of conclusion and that was project sign project grudge project blue book and so on but eventually the air force kind of wanted to get out of it frankly so they gave a contract to the condon committee at the university of colorado and they did a year study and then they finally said science is going to be served by chasing this subject area so we recommend that it be terminated and so in fact in early 1970 it was terminated and now what that meant was that after that time if you were to call the public affairs office at the in the air force and say well what's the latest with regard to ufo sightings it would turn out that uh they'd simply say oh no no no we we got out of that business in uh early 1970 uh nothing to see here uh we're we're not we're not investigating ufos anymore however that actually wasn't true it turned out that the very memo by general bollander that terminated the project terminated blue book project down in the frying print had a statement reports of ufos which could affect national security would continue to be handled through the standard air force procedures designed for this purpose so in fact the truth of the matter is the work did not stop in 1970 it continued in the shadows primarily in black programs not revealed to the public and it went on that way for some decades until finally in december of 2017 the new york times was able to come forth with a front page story revealing one of the programs that had been carried out in the recent years called advanced aerospace threat identification program or atip this was a major story it sort of started the whole current media coverage that we've been seeing of course as soon as that story came out mainstream press coverage was all over it and what was different this time was really the quality of source is going public in previous times if you had someone just simply saying they saw light in the sky or whatever uh you know the tin foil hat crowd label could have been thrown at it the subject was very stigmatized but here the quality of sources going public once this new york times article came out uh consisted of people like ex-senate majority leader harry reid who in fact was the one who set up the most recent program top-rated f-18 pilots like dave fraver and so on who encountered uap at close range and a number of significant dod and intelligence community officials so suddenly we had some coverage without the usual stigma well what about this program atip actually it was initiated in 2008 under the acronym asap advanced aerospace weapon system application program but very quickly by anyone in the program we use the nickname atip advance aerospace threat identification program so that that's that's the phrase i'll use to describe it well the program was initiated by dia defense intelligence agency and they were concerned about threat from uap as they said crafts drones of unknown origin now what was different now as compared to earlier years is there are multiple surveillance and reconnaissance platforms of high quality and so true intelligence assessments could be carried out with really good data because we had excellent reconnaissance data coming in and the conclusion was that there appeared to be intelligently controlled mechanical devices capable of performing feasts beyond current technological capabilities for example exceed the sound barrier without a sonic boom so this this is what caused the program to be set up now from the dia standpoint of course it's department of defense so their job is to defend the country against potential threats obviously they would have to be concerned about what could be called the current threat and that is this phenomenon is going on possibly for foreign derivation say the chinese and russian could include off-world no way to tell until it's absolutely nailed down and being globally deployed and tested including in the continental united states now that's kind of the obvious threat and you might think that that was really the threat of concern as it turns out that was not the most major current threat the major current threat was really future threat what if potential adversaries say the chinese russians whoever achieved significant breakthroughs and development of disruptive technologies based on their own evaluations of uap phenomena from sensor data or crash retrieved materials that was the real concern for the dia that's what's in their remit to be paying attention to and while they should be concerned about that uh in in the in the warmed up period in interacting with the soviets we were able to obtain a major document about the thickness of a telephone book showing that for example as early as 1991 they had a very major ufo investigation program going forward under the military unit 73790 it was a large-scale effort i show this graph i recognize that it probably won't be able to read the fine details in these in these blocks but basically i show it to emphasize the fact that they had a number of military organizations a number of science labs a number of materials labs all cooperating together and collaborating to try to get to the bottom of understanding what the uap phenomena actually was so this is a serious effort for them and of course they're worried about the same thing we're worried about and that is suppose we make some great progress on the basis of materials or crash retrievals or just our analysis of the data they'd be worried that we could get the jump on them so this went back and forth by both sides typically under black programs and of course now with all the news coverage that's come out in the last couple of years i'm sure many of us have seen interviews of commander dave fravor who talks about his interaction with the tic tac and again uh for those who say well can you really determine something from kind of a fuzzy video or whatever it's important and he's emphasized that when these events occurred there were multiple sensor platforms recording this radar recorded its presence ir recorded its presence dave fravor had eyeballs on it even did a little semi dog fight chasing it and so anyway that that's been now presented to the public and of course uh many of us are familiar with louis lozando who's had a lot of media coverage he was one of the last directors of the a-tip program and he felt that not enough was being treated seriously and so for that reason he left the pentagon in order to be more public about doing whatever he could to legitimize the topic many of you are familiar with lou he was a keynoted speaker at the first scu conference a couple of years ago recently appeared on 60 minutes so and on tucker carlson a number of times so uh he's out there doing what he can to get the word out lou is the person that toward the end of the program that i reported to so i know him very well now one of the outcomes of official legitimization and all this media coverage was for the first time the navy confirmed that the videos for example really are unidentified aerial phenomena that's really a significant statement for example if it were let's say secret navy platforms drones whatever that they didn't want to reveal okay then they wouldn't uh they wouldn't reveal it but they wouldn't come out with a statement in the boldface lie to say they're truly unidentified so this statement that they're unidentified is to be taken seriously now as a result of all this public exposure the navy drafted new guidelines for their pilots to report the ufos as we now know if you've been following the news pilots have been seeing ufos all the time over the last decades but by and large they didn't report them because they were concerned that they would lose their flight status be thought that maybe they were drinking or on drugs or something but now that uh this has all come forward it's now a requirement that they report uh what they see and so that's why even now a number of their reports are actually getting leaked out to the media okay let's get back to what the dia program was about and this is the transition from the intelligence problem which it obviously is to a scientific problem the broad area announcement asked that this list of engineering aspects be addressed in this program the contract monitor from dia brilliant physicist very smart guy i'd have to say he's one of us basically uh he recognized that what really would count to make any kind of progress in this area in addition to just simply collecting data on observations would be to try to actually figure out anything we could about the technology involved and so that's what the program was primarily directed towards now dia chose bigelow aerospace as a contractor to address the potential uap threat big aerospace established bass bigelow aerospace advanced space studies and hired some 50 investigators and so on and this is this is a big operation and bigelow contacted me at earth tech international and asked that i collaborate as a subcontractor which i of course agreed to do and so that's how i became a subcontractor and a senior advisor to the atip program so now because we have been and we have the remit to look at engineering aspects we now had the opportunity to manage the transition from the intelligence problem we can let other people worry about to the scientific problem which is of interest to us so let's start with a hypothesis which is exactly what i did let's assume materials are potentially available from uap for example crash retrieval or if we don't have materials now we might have materials in the near future so let's assume that this is the case if so as you can well imagine it would be subject to high level security and compartmentalization not so much that it's to be kept from the american public but rather anything that might be learned in a program like this could be kept from potential adversaries who will be looking for clues to develop their technologies well how are you going to handle that you got high level security compartmentalization be difficult for contractors that might be working in this area to obtain expert opinion and critical technologies you just don't call up your local university phd and say you know i've got a problem here i've got this chunk of ufo material i can't quite understand it would you take a look at me it would all be out i mean that's the end of black program coverage of it so how do you address this issue high-level security compartmentalization difficult for contractors to obtain expert opinion critical technologies this was the challenge that i was given okay my response to the challenge was pretty straightforward i said okay uh well let's commission white papers about all the from subject matter experts around the world unclassified and simply asked them where their particular aerospace related subject area would be in the year 2050. i represented it as a general survey of aerospace futures of course i didn't say you know this is really to help us out with the ufo program no i just simply said this is a general survey but these are unclassified white papers so i could go anywhere in the globe and i did i mean some of our best papers on invisibility for example came out of scotland and i told the people that i contact contracted to develop these papers that they were free to publish the results in in physics journals that'd be just fine so i let out 38 contracts over a two-year period i'm going to show you the topic areas that i covered these theories that i considered significant and that i thought we should get our best evaluation of and you can see even talking about things like wart drive space diametric engineering traversable wormholes i mean we weren't just digging around the edges we were basically going for the juggler to the degree that i thought we could we could do it here's another set of papers the high-energy laser weapon one was classified but the rest the rest were unclassified pushing the envelope negative mass propulsion whatever anti-gravity for aerospace applications as you can see we really wanted to cover the very edgy topics but since we were going to experts and asking them where their subject would be in 2050 we were giving them permission to extrapolate to think out of the box and that's what gave us really good data another set of papers this is some summarize sun sums up the 38 even field effects on human biological tissues where there have been interactions that might have led to injury or something so anyway there we were what do i do with these papers well i wrap them all up bundle them all up and send them back to dia and they're put on a pentagon server called jwix defense intelligence reference documents durs as we call them these were then accessible by contractors by the intelligence community by dod personnel but they were not released to the public that was not the case here now i'm told that this set of 38 papers basically became the best seller in the pentagon j wick system for some time so it was a very high quality set of papers and people from all different kinds of areas accessed them and were interested in them even if they weren't particularly interested in the uap phenomena now recall i said that these were not being released to the public however as i mentioned i told the individual authors that they were free to publish their results and so if it turns out that you have interest in any of the subjects that i've listed here if you go to the documents section of the scu website you'll find the list of the papers along with the authors and their academic positions or whatever and so feel free i encourage you to contact them in any areas that are of interest to you and see if they'll share what they developed in developing these papers now to give you an idea of you know what kinds of topics were covered and how thoroughly were they covered i'm going to give an example in space time metric engineering i use this example because actually this is the paper that i wrote for this series of 38 papers and the challenge that i gave to myself was can reported anomalous observations of uap be accounted for on the basis of known physics and apparent reduced inertial mass right angle turns and high velocity and so on and generally if you're listening to the news tv interviews and so on it's always emphasized that this all seems to be so well beyond any kind of physics we can imagine but actually because the approach i took my answer was to the question can report anomalous observations be accounted for and based on new physics my answer was yes and i'll show you why i say that what i used was an engineering approach to general relativity which is kind of an unusual flag to carry of course we know maxwell's equations give us electromagnetism and then by engineering the equations of electromagnetism we develop wi-fi radar tv whatever well einstein's equations are sort of like maxwell's equations up till now they've been used primarily by astrophysicists who are working out the consequences of the merger of neutron stars or whatever but anyway there's a space time metric that comes out of einstein's equations and so the question i posed to myself was well can we engineer the space time metric for interstellar flight at least in principle even if we don't have the energy or technical tools to do it at least what do the equations say is possible and so in examining uh einstein's equations i was able to find out that in a certain select set of conditions effects that seem to correlate with uap observations could come out of solutions of einstein's space diametric equations here i've got in terms of a particular parameter kappa but under the right engineering conditions you could reduce your mass you go faster in the speed of light get repulsive anti-gravity forces uh just what you would like to see the way i arrived at this was that i i took a sheet of paper and left hand side i wrote down what are all the claims that come out of observations of uap and then i wrote down on the right hand side of the paper what are all the effects you might expect to see if you engineered the space diametric and they fit together hand to glove i'm going to throw in one high-tech slide here for the general relativity buffs in the crowd where i specifically list the space diametric components if you're interested uh as i said we were permitted to publish our papers so i published this paper in a journal peer-reviewed and it's posted on the scu website in the document section so if you're into this kind of thing feel free to take a look and what kind of predictions do we get out of it well what about the velocity of light constraint you can't go faster velocity of light well that's a statement of special relativity not general relativity and we hear about wormholes and so on well to an engineer the speed of light is given by that equation there c is one over the square root of mu zero epsilon zero the permeability and permittivity of the vacuum so in space diametric engineering you go in and you simply re-engineer mu and epsilon to be much smaller which means that in that region of space c is much higher and therefore zipping across the universe and a wormhole is not in principle ruled out and i'm talking science fiction here i mean this is academic textbook stuff that general relativity people investigate all the time so that could handle the issue of well they're so far away how could they ever get here another consequence of engineering uh space time metric under conditions that would lead to the kind of effects that that we think we're observing is that there tends to be a blue shift what do i mean by that i mean in the rooms where you're sitting right now you don't see most of the electromagnetic spectrum it's in the infrared it's in the heat spectrum what we see with our eyes are invisible is a relatively small part of the em spectrum but under the conditions in which space-time metric has been engineered to produce the kind of effects you might expect to see in the uab you get blue shift which means first of all some of that infrared is going to be upshifted into the visible part of the spectrum and so you'd expect craft to be actually quite bright which is one of the things that in fact is reported well way we could check that out set up some spectrum analyzers and see if you record a blackbody spectrum that's been blue shifted so that's a challenge i give to the spectrum analytical crop and of course with this blue shift there's a prediction of near field exposure injuries for example the visible can be blue shifted up into the uv and you get sunburn injuries often reported by people who claim to have encountered a powered up craft at relatively close range or if you're too close i can even some of that visible spectrum which ordinarily isn't harmful can be shifted up into the soft x-ray region and you get radiation injury cash landrum case for example you know could fit into this category so there are specific predictions in fact during the atip program we took a look at some data that came out of clarissa island investigation in brazil 1977-78 there's a tremendous amount of data collected by the brazilian air force thousand pages of documents photographs film physiological effects it was like scenes out of close encounters as the third kind so we collected up all that information and examined it and i'll just give you one one graph here about it where we listed the medical injuries and some of these same responses to claimed encounters at close range do correlate with what we've seen in in some cases that we investigated so that's that's a prediction that comes out of space time metric engineering [Music] and by the way it isn't that i thought of this all by myself it turns out that there's an excellent book that most people in ufo and uap investigation seem to have overlooked it's called unconventional flying objects written by paul hill who's the chief scientist manager at nasa langley research center he came up with the idea that in order to match into the observations the craft must have what he called a direct acceleration field and uh when you read his book you realize it's what today we would call metric engineering it says gravitational like in nature gravity canceling it would permit hundred g's relative to environment accelerations without any onboard high g forces you could get supersonic flight through the atmosphere without sonic moons which is one of our observations and he did detailed calculations and computer simulations to show that with this metric engineering approach you end up developing subsonic flow patterns of streamlines so you prevent shockwave drag you prevent aerodynamic eating just exactly what seems to match into the data he predicted flight profiles that matched observations and so we came to the conclusion that uap appear at least some of them appeared to be engineered platforms on the order of 30 tons i think you got that number from some dents and some railroad tracks demonstrating 100g accelerations 9 000 miles per hour in the atmosphere well of course as you can imagine while he was a chief manager at nasa no way he could he could publish his book back in those days it definitely would have been a killer for his profession but he arranged that the book would be published posthumously and so i highly recommend it if you haven't seen the book please please get it and read through it it's very detailed a lot of graphing a lot of excellent work now based on all of this of course i and my colleagues have not been quiet about it uh we've listed uh and provided i listed a provided number of briefings to the senate armed services committee the senate select committee intelligence briefings carried out by myself by lou elizondo who as i mentioned earlier is the retired director of the dod's a-tip program chris millen a long career as deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence so he has really good connections into the congressional committee and so he's been very active in briefing senators and congressmen my colleague eric davis who is my chief science officer at earthquake international and so he's been involved in a number of these briefings so a lot of briefings have taken place behind the scenes now as we've heard from what rich said earlier the pentagon has set up a uap task force it was requested by select senate committee for intelligence senator marco rubio who's the chairman of it it was actually established and approved by the deputy secretary of defense norquist so this is finally getting treatment at the high levels where it deserves to be evaluated it's led by the navy under the cognizance of the under secretary of defense for intelligence it was created to improve quote understanding of and gain insight into the nature and origins of uap the mission is to detect analyze and catalog uap that could potentially pose a threat to u.s national security that's the pentagon's requirement and they were told to submit a report within 180 days to congressional armed services committee supposed to be a broadly available unclassified report with a classified annex and that's be if they if they keep to their deadline that should be coming out before the end of june so we'll see what what it says and that's being taken seriously all over the globe uh here's a major document that came out of the israeli think tank the bagan sadat center for strategic studies where they outline whatever has been released so far about the pentagon's uap task force and of course recently just last few days we've seen additional press coverage in the new york times about the upcoming release of this report so it's definitely got everyone's attention so what does that mean for the uap topic i think we can finally celebrate that the uap topic has come of age the former stigma is significantly reduced the major factor i think is due to the increased sophistication of surveillance platforms when just observations or a quick photo you know reason to be not so sure but now with our unbelievably sophisticated surveillance platforms getting data from multiple sources all coordinated and collaborated you just can't set these observations aside so the data that even that's now public available lends itself to analysis and engineering evaluation as i showed with regard to the 38 papers at least addressing topics that would be of significance for this area therefore i think our scientific and engineering community can legitimately look forward to significant progress in our understanding of the uap topic as the future and our society for that we have here the scu and mufon and other areas beginning to make their contributions i think we have a very rich future coming along in which this topic will be treated seriously a lot of the stigma will be downplayed and so it's going to be an engineering topic of great interest to all of us and i saw even just today in the news that the chinese also had their own [Music] uap task force set up to try to understand what's going on so this this is a subject that's finally come of age and i think we're going to hearing a lot about it and we all have an opportunity to contribute something of value so that is my comments and be glad to take any questions hey uh one question for hal this is joe dinoto uh can you can you talk a little bit about the calaras event in brazil obviously at the unclassified level but uh is there any any perspective or additional context you could offer about that event that you could correlate with say other cases that may have taken place uh in europe or italy relative to directed energy capabilities or any kind of similarities between that event in brazil and other events in other places i think the answer basically yes as you saw in my graph there's an enormous amount of data and it lasted over a couple of years we actually met with the general from brazil who's in charge of seeing all this get evaluated and because there was so much apparent direct interaction in many cases between the uap phenomena and some of the civilians there living on claris island that's why we got in addition all of the medical data about potential damage to people so in our case we had medical doctors who you know have access to studies carried out in various u.s agencies and scientific groups like los alamos whatever in which there have been a collection of data typically done with animal studies and so on which show what kinds of injury you might expect when getting too close to let's say what i would say is blue shifted infrared i mean up into the microwave and low x-ray region and so on and the data from any studies where people have for example accidentally gotten exposed to high-intensity microwaves or whatever and then looking at the data out of the claris incident our medical investigators said that looks looks pretty pretty correlatable and so in fact uh you know some of the people that are involved in those studies are also involved in looking at additional data from you know what we call the havana syndrome and so on so it does seem like it's all of a piece i don't think we have the answers finally nailed down for sure but there does seem to be at least relatable elements of all of those studies the next question folks i'd like you to be able to use the question and answer in uh please direct your questions there we're going through them and giving them out as opposed to doing this so we want you to hit the people there's a lot of people that have already put in questions hal uh here's one uh wouldn't it be the right time to bring in the russian and chinese scientists as well i'm convinced we can learn a lot from their history in the uap ufo or the uso research well it's it's a double-edged sword obviously uh having people present their sightings from other countries and what kind of data they've collected um would certainly be of use to us but of course if you have that colloquy we're going to have to share some things that we've learned and of course that's that's what's a great concern at least in the dod and intelligence community and that is they may be missing a critical piece of data to make some giant step forward and we just happen to have that particular critical piece of data and if we shared it with them that would be a problem so on the one hand certainly at the unclassified level if we can find ways to collaborate with representatives of ufo investigative teams in china and russia i think i think it would be a move in the right direction but it would have to be handled very carefully agreed the dod definition for threat includes elements of both intention and capability assuming the capability has been adequately demonstrated by recent videos then what remains to is to determine intention but if we do not know what these craft are or who or what controls them then how can we begin to assess intention what would it what would be the criteria is it merely that they have yet to to do harm well one of these sort of signatures which i think you mentioned earlier is the fact that a lot of the uap observations have been near our nuclear facilities and specifically as has been reported a wonderful book by robert hastings on ufos and nukes some of our nuclear silos have been turned off and we happen to know that the same thing has happened in the former soviet union so when you look at that and you say okay what does that mean in terms of threat well one way to interpret it is that they're good guys and they're just letting us know that if we get too frisky down here and decide to have a nuclear war they can turn it off on the other hand if they're bad guys you could say okay before they're just the reconnaissance group to check out whether they can be sure to take out our nuclear defense when the armada shows up so of course intention is everything and at this point as far as i know we don't really have a clue we read all the tea leaves to try to figure out what it is um so that that that's it's still up in the air and that's why uh i mean fortunately at least we haven't had a lot of uh shoot downs of american craft or other country craft chasing ufos so that that's somewhat uh encouraging but it's really intention is sort of the big topic of interest that we really wish we could get to the heart of and we're not there yet so it's it's uh up in the air but there's no doubt that the correlated sightings are definitely uh seem to be tracking our military elements do you have a working hypothesis as to how these craft navigate while encompassed in the field given proposed electrogravitic effects or fields effectively remove the interior craft devices from the local space time to first order i'd say no we have not figured that out on the other hand there are certain elements of what it's like if uh the if the model is correct about you know space time metric engineering inside the craft everything is working relatively normally it's just that when they look out they see the rest of the world in redshifted and moving in slow motion so at least in terms of detecting their environment uh it's it's pretty reasonable uh you know what what they would be able to see now i know that in in investigating things like super luminal travel and wormhole travel you get into the whole thing about well can you get ahead of that in order to direct yourself and so on and that that those are questions that are still being investigated by people doing various general relativity models but on the other hand there's a kind of a simple side of it and that is the people inside the craft if there are people in the craft uh to them things are very very normal uh so even though from the outside we say oh you know why aren't they fried by the blue shifted radiation and so on well it's that under this model all their atomic structure and chemical elements are also all blue shifted so relatively speaking to them they're in a kind of a normal space okay uh next question would be with regard to intention it would be important to know who they are and where they are from what can you say about that i can say i don't know the answer to that all right uh hi the subject of this conference is compelling i just want to know if there will be some mention to the supposedly big declassification of ufo-related documents by several u.s organizations after the law signed by former president trump and enacted in last december i really have no clues about what would be disclosed but general media and ufologists keep saying that the big thing is coming what are your thoughts about the big thing from my uh contacts and so on i think although there will be enough information coming out to finally later rest that this is not a tin foil hat subject and there's reality to it and the government is making a concerted effort to to learn more about it i think any truly deep state increase knowledge is likely not to come out i don't see all the barriers falling understand let's let's either get on with it or allow the question to fade away as it deserves the answer is either yes or no does the us government agency example nist or department of energy dod or any private u.s company organization or any similar entity anywhere else in the world have in its possession one or more vehicles in whole or in part built anywhere other than the earth i cannot comment on that okay for the entirety of your paper oh excuse me let's go back to this this just jumped on the screen for the entirety of your paper you're differentiating between altered space time due to a typical seller mass versus space time engineered by an advanced craft yet in the time alterations section are you suggesting that a craft could engineer both a time-slowed condition giving an individual the experience of missing time as well as the time sped up condition can you elaborate on missing time yes in fact i addressed that in my paper so you could check that out because basically if you're able to change the temporal aspect of your surrounding space you can either speed it up or slow it down and one of the off one of the reports often that they come forth people say well there i was i was close to a craft and suddenly all the sounds of nature the birds the wind you know i didn't hear anything well if time has been slowed down in that area and has gone into infrasonics so that you wouldn't hear it that's one of the elements that you would expect to to experience and so then you also have obviously both kinds of things where you would interpret it as missing time because suddenly when you if time got slowed down so maybe you might be let's say in the crafts slowed down vicinity and for five minutes or whatever but meanwhile outside several hours have gone by then when you emerge you say oh my gosh i've got missing time it might not be that you actually missed any subjective time it's just one of the consequences and i i discussed the details of that in my paper all right next question is is there a particular interpretation of the quantum measurement problem that fits best with the work you've done thoughts on boom well i'm i'm i'm i'm in a fiction out of uh bohm's general approach and um but uh that that all has to do with you know quantum effects and so on and uh in pursuing the kind of models i pursued for the uap it's been general relativity of course and uh so general relativity and quantum theory have have not locked hands yet so even though for other reasons and for other technologies that i'm involved in i'm a big fan of boom and take into account quantum effects uh i haven't seen the connection to the uap area okay uh dr puthoff uh one of the durd reports was published in the open literature by professor winterberg at unr in it he goes into great length about possible ways to mine exotic matter caught in the moon's gravity well yes what was your opinion on the paper and can you comment on its focus on the moon well certainly uh the general subject was exotic matter negative matter and so on and and winterberg is absolutely a top physicist he's a student of heisenberg in the old days and he's been part of weapons development programs and so on so so he's somebody you you take seriously but in this paper you certainly extrapolating uh you know kind of way out there because as far as i've i know even in talking with him there hasn't yet been any evidence of that kind of matter being available and then the particular application he thought of with regard to the moon struck me as being really on the edge so i don't really have any further commentary on it uh here's a statement or a question would nasa's recent statement and interest to now study this phenomena be redundant if not is there a specific area that you would recommend that they focus their efforts on well in in the in the public uh unclassified menu there are number of claimed pieces from various craft from crashes or you know one was shot off decades ago that has pretty good credibility and so on so i think setting up a materials lab would be the best and then secondly if there's any evidence of bases on the moon they might have picked up that would certainly be an area of interest i don't know the answer to that by the way only you know rumor and claims so so anyway i would say materials and any observations that show up at any [Music] tracking of various environments those would be the two main things um isn't it going to be very difficult to make meaningful scientific progress in this area so as long as as it's controlled by the national security concerns well as as basically i was addressing in my paper there is a problem because even if you've got some really good data that you feel you can't share the national security concerns really holds back the scientific enterprise fortunately though i think things are warming up you might say and now that the stigma has been reduced significantly i think there are more cases that will come forward and more examples of possibly materials will come forward so i i think that real progress can be made even despite the fact that there there's a large national security uh significance to some elements of the subject um i guess the question uh this is an interesting one uh that i've you've often pondered and you probably might be aware of it but anyway uh do you believe that the three navy patents by dr salvatore cesar piece the so-called ufo patents represent any true technical breakthrough i have no evidence that they do i mean some of the concepts involved that he laid out have a certain resonance with some of the concepts that i consider but to the degree that there are claims that it's been observed in the laboratory or technologies have been built to demonstrate those effects i have no evidence for that and i think that the navy has pretty well retracted and i don't think it's just a cover-up i i think it was correctly retracted uh there's a it says reporter here hi everybody uh you touched on this today in a cursory way already but from speaking with dr wells the author of the pulsed high-powered microwave technology paper expressed surprise to me about his work being included in this list of dirds so i'm wondering specifically how researchers scientists and engineers were approached and contracted to produce these i can tell you exactly because i wrote the contract and basically uh and by the way in response to what well said i have once of course we thought this would never particularly come out as being part of a uap effort and so once once senator mccain i think was arranged for those lists of papers and authors to be publicized i just i really cringed wanted to hide below my desk thinking all these people are going to contact me and say what you didn't tell me okay what i did was i said i'm basically representing bigelow aerospace who's an aerospace company you know moving forward into the future and we'd like to do a survey on where your particular area might be uh you know by the year 2050 and this is just to help guide investment and technology development in the coming years so the bigger aerospace can be right the tip of the sphere in terms of beginning to explore space and so on so so that that's all they were told that it was a survey for an aerospace corporation uh thank you uh isn't it time for science to re-evaluate steady and change focus on the future research in this area well i certainly have that viewpoint and i'm glad to see that seti some seti people have begun to consider uh archaeological setting that is are there any evidence of let's say materials possibly on the moon or on mars and so on not just looking for signals i've i've always been pretty skeptical that velocity of light transmission signals were likely to be very effective if for no other reason almost certainly to be encrypted and everything else so so no i think seti really has to expand at least you know professor townes charles towns laser inventor said well should at least expand beyond em and uh include looking for laser signals so that that was optical seti that was a step in right direction but but i think also the idea of looking for say molecules and other genetic structures that may be somewhere in the earth that might show some different kind of pattern that you might be able to claim was et related that that kind of so so if seti is broadened to include all possibilities and and if they eliminate the idea that well they never came here then i think seti could uh make some real contributions per your paper presented is the manipulation of the metrics associated with the theoretical alcubierre drive essentially creating a finely tunable wormhole depending uh on intensity of warp field generated behind an object and the warped field well that's one that's in fact that's one example i give in my paper but since his original publication of the alcubierre warp drive there have been a number of papers by i mean well over a dozen of different kinds of both warp drives and wormholes and my colleague eric davis has become a super expert on on that kind of thing he's right there in huntsville at the aerospace corporation you might you might talk to him so that that that's an example and it looks like it's not an example that is likely to be engineered and there's some problems with it but some of the additional papers that have taken off with that as the guiding principle are well worth taking a look at our tic tac type phenomena being seen in other countries right now [Music] yes they are and um and just recently lou elizondo brought up another point which was that back in the 50s tic tac exactly tic tac that looks like a giant tic tac had been reported and so he recently uh i guess i guess his might have been on tucker carlson recently last couple of nights he showed this paper from the 50s generated by the military it had been finally declassified in which they saw precisely the tic tac shape based on your extensive study of uip is there any one theory of their origin that you think is more plausible well it's it it's it's a complex question and i've got a complex answer and uh in fact i wrote a paper which i haven't published called the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis and so i listed what are all the options okay obviously it could be something by one of our military groups here on the planet well that's not standing in very strong legs these days well suppose there's uh somebody arriving from a far away solar system well that's the standard et hypothesis but you know maybe there's a group from the middle ages that happened to stumble on any gravity and they built a lab you know in the himalayas somewhere and uh it's a terrestrial group and they just happened to discover that or maybe some bts landed here uh 50 60 000 years ago and they're just hiding out and not making themselves particularly known and then suddenly when we're dropping atomic bombs and polluting the environment then we're messing up their environment as well as our own so they decided to come out of hiding a little bit i mean there's there are all these possibilities so i think in fact what i recommend in in the paper that i wrote was that we should forget the science for a while and really get detectives to work following gumshoe kinds of aspects to determine of all the possibilities and of course we have jacques fillet who says you know maybe they're involving additional dimensions and so on so so i think all of those should be on the table until there's enough data to take them off the table my personal viewpoint is i well been i've got mixed opinions i tend toward the et hypothesis but that's just barely above some of my other hypotheses if uh if blue shifted light is coming out of the uap presume presumptively there is a light source on the uap that is being blue shifted if we limit to night sightings if we're limited then this the number of photons would not increase but just blue shift what would be producing the original light source before the blue shift well for one thing simply the heat spectrum of the craft and the craft is let's say in our atmosphere and probably has a temperature not that much different from from the surrounding atmosphere and if that gets blue shifted then you see pretty strong visible light due to the blue shifted infrared spectrum so that would be that would be one thing in terms of sending out beams i mean if they wanted to signal someone on the earth they could send out what to them would be [Music] let's say an infrared beam knowing it would be blue shifted um actually actually whatever light comes from a craft would be blue shifted so you could arrange whatever you wanted if you have control over what kind of optical signals you're emitting is it conceivable that most or all of the uap are van newman probes possibly capable of self replication and that they're innocently observing us if so then might the risk be and only an annoyance say we choose to formally acknowledge them then all three billion of them did decide to say hi but uh that way they say hi is to disperse themselves hover at fifty five hundred feet and hang around for eight years well i i'd certainly go for that i mean you can't rule out von neumann probes i mean that's very uh sophisticated but you might say realistic uh kind of thing to think about and if they're self-replicating uh they can certainly account for while receiving many of them so um why not what are your thoughts what do you think about that of any kind of an international working group or on an international level that would allow for people who are you know as opposed to this like you know each country doing their own thing with national security how do we get beyond that and get into the uh the international working group i certainly think that's a great idea and i would encourage it and uh you know the scu as an organization who in accordance with your map has brought together at least interest from from countries all over the globe uh i mean the scu could be just such an organization i know mufon tries it and has had some some carry weight there but anyway i think i think would be a good idea and certainly uh specifically in the atep program we went out of our way to interact with people from various south american countries and so on and so getting a collective global group to address it in common and begin to share whatever particular pieces of data they have i think that would be great i mean we learned a lot from the tehran incident where the tehran fighter pilot headed toward a ufo and then had his weapon systems and communication system turned off but the rest of the plane operated correctly and that uh you know these events that are happening around the globe interacting with different forms of the military and so on yeah definitely anything we could do to promote that i would be all for chocolate by the way jacques villa yeah acting with the french group japan and so on has been very strong on that issue agree uh did you ever get a chance to read uh and if so do you have any thoughts on ning lee's 1993 paper on gravity grab a gravito electric electric coupling via superconductivity well i certainly read all of her papers i also participated in the mitre conference where she made a major presentation and um originally i thought you know she may really be onto something but the fact that it hasn't particularly gone anywhere and some of the critiques uh that have been published from a scientific viewpoint i found kind of compelling so it's definitely in the gray box on the shelf same with the padlet off results from russia uh ufos appear to be interested in our technology are there potential concerns for ufo encounters that should be considered during the upcoming efforts to colonize mars i can imagine that if ufos are spotted on mars by colonists this could induce a great deal of panic [Laughter] well it would be nice if we're going to run into denizens there that we would have some kind of interaction and protocols before we got to that point so that's what i would hope that people would be thinking about and working on peer-reviewed and or published papers typically require extensive corroborating data and reproducible experiments for field experts to then verify you noted that some of the data used for the durd papers did you you or others conduct any controlled experiments to verify any of the paper's proposed hypotheses or are these uh the results of just physics and mathematical deductive reasoning well several the papers for example i'm thinking of mhd paper out of lockheed martin paper on [Music] capacitor energy storage and so on there are several papers in that group of 38 that are actually the results of years of laboratory experimentation and data collection and it's presented in those papers so the papers aren't all just you know wishlist kinds of edgy proposals several of the papers have a lot of experimental data involved so you'd have to go paper by paper but some of them are really quite detailed have uh been published in the peer-reviewed literature have had replications in other laboratories that are referenced so it's uh it depends on the paper uh how of late it seems that there's a concentration of of cases right now that are coming forward uh made by on u.s military assets uh do you feel that this is the case or do you believe it's a matter of reporting or disclosure in some of those countries i mean what's the focus here why is that suddenly happening well i think that for whatever reason the uap phenomena is highly correlated with and concentrating on military and military military-like and space and nuclear facilities why that's the case uh i don't know i'm not sure if anybody knows but definitely that it's it's not just uh selective reporting i mean that does seem to be the case and of course that's why there's such concern behind the scenes on what the significance of this really is in uh in 2021 balbrick and martier uh published in the journal classical of quantum and journal classical and quantum gravity about the possibility of positive energy physical warp drives as a shell of regular or exotic material moving in inertially with a certain velocity therefore requiring propulsion requires propulsion of subliminal some limital spherical spherically symmetric warp drive space times do you think that this approach can be valuable well i think exploration of all of these approaches is valuable and and from the math and the theorizing outcome predictions and then those predictions if we have an opportunity in the lab or an opportunity in seeing uap in the vicinity we might be able to check out whether those predictions are valid so i think all that kind of work is is certainly useful okay let's see uh have uh have these objects convincingly demonstrated any kind of telepathy or psychic uh activity in other words is there any connection to that uh i know that you were heavily involved with uh like the remote viewing type of thing and some other kinds of studies and stuff like that do you see that there's any connection between the objects and anything of that nature well certainly there's a lot of reporting of people claiming those kinds of experiences where they have interacted with some kind of being and the interaction was telepathic so as far as i know it's not pinned down in the scientific sense that that all of us at scu would like would like to see but nonetheless given that there's so much of that kind of reporting going on i and others have given thought to what kind of mechanisms would be involved and um you know we we've done some modeling and i'm pursuing some communication quantum communication technology that you know may have a relationship so i think it's a fruitful area to think about and to try to gather data on and but in terms of its relationship to uap phenomena it's uh it's still sketchy at least from a scientist's standpoint um just a question here that uh it's been plaguing me too is it it seems like all the the recent sightings and stuff like that have always been with the navy and it seems to be that they're taking the lead right now with the dni and everything else the united states air force is responsible for control of our skies why is it we don't see anything from them you know actually i know that that's a good question and um i actually don't know the answer i know that the navy has been you might say more active and uh pro investigation for a long time and certainly recently it's been the navy pilots that have had the the primary viewings as far as we know so i don't know whether that means the air force has some equivalent um and they're just not wanting to get on the public bandwagon about it or maybe for some reason with a lot of the uap coming and going from the ocean you know maybe it's more of a navy thing so uh i don't actually know the answer to that okay and we have like about one more minute and i'm just going to ask you this last question here do you believe that there are any current craft that uh have the properties of the tic tac objects and our human groups that can take e.t home i think that's referencing you know the referencing ben rich's statements yeah ben rich's statement i'm skeptical i mean i can't absolutely write it off but uh with whatever access i've had and of course everything is still very stove-piped so it could just be that i don't have the access but i haven't seen any evidence of that [Applause] watch more podcast clips now on our youtube channel go to livewire podcast clips and watch more great podcast videos just like this one [Music]