Imminent: Lue Elizondo and the Pentagon’s Secret UFO Program

Transcript

hello and welcome back to it's a very exciting time a podcast by UFO nerd and his tolerant friend my name is Scott and I've been fascinated by the phenomenon my whole life and I'm Chuck I'm an aerospace nerd and a tolerant friend we started this podcast because since 2017 there have been shocking revelations from news of Secret Pentagon programs to confirmed videos of astonishing craft in a nutshell now that we know the government has recovered non-human Tech technology or at least we will once we finish reading L's book it raises a natural question if you my cats are going crazy in the background You' seen it all just zipping back and forth a little bit yeah yeah yeah it's great keep going anyway it raises an natural question if UFOs are real what else suddenly some of these other parts of the phenomenon that seemed unlikely are pulled into the realm of the possible and they may still be unlikely but even if it's new science and not aliens it's a very exciting time and just the standard reminder you can find show notes and more at very exciting time.com support us by going to patreon.com exciting time where you can find extra content Q&A videos Discord address Etc all right Chuck we're doing a little bit of a weird episode today so yeah and I I didn't I didn't read the notes so I've got like no idea what's happening today that that is totally fine normally I give Chuck a little bit of a hard time if he doesn't read the notes because I tend to write reactions for him and then I'm like well I hope you like what I wrote um but today I mean generally it so today I don't really have a tightly prepared set of notes um as we've discussed Lu is s's book imminent dropped on Tuesday we're recording today on Saturday um I read the book in three days which is the fastest I have crammed a book since college and let me tell you like my brain was melting and coming out of my ears like I I'm not built for taking it information this fast do you think you absorbed it properly well it's funny you ask that so uh I was talking to the Discord uh people and mentioning like yeah I'm reading the book I'm working on my notes and someone asked do you think there's enough material for like a series of episodes and I was like no no not at all like it was a good book don't get me wrong but it wasn't anything we haven't heard before and then last night I sat down to start pulling some notes together figuring we'd do one episode on kind of everything that was in the book while I was reading the book I was reading on Kindle I made liberal use of the highlighting feature so that I could look at my notes and see anything I might possibly want to reference in the show sure yeah Chuck I probably highlighted a quarter of the book and it's not a thin book yeah is this um is this because of uh poor highlighter uh discipline or which is my problem or was it just that dense it was that dense um now I will admit not every one of those highlights was like a quote I want to read verbatim a lot of them are some of them are like oh this is important context I should remember when we talk about this topic or some of them are like hey here's a whole block that kind of covers a section of time that I'll probably compress down to one or two sentences but I'll want to remember where this is but even so the impression I got because I crammed it so fast was I personally as someone who is deeply invested in this topic did not get a ton of new information out of this um a lot of this is stuff we have in fact heard Lou alzando say before but it's all nicely packaged put together with a big bow on it and I realized as I was putting it together some of these things we have talked about but we talked about two years ago when we started the show and had singled digigit followers and I don't know maybe all of our listeners are hyper dedicated and they've all gone back and listen to every single episode we've ever recorded and if that's you hey man like H thank you you know that's great but I expect most people aren't like that they join a podcast with a backlog and they just start listening from there and I try to make sure that we're not always doing the thing like see our earlier episode on topic X you know like if we're talking about something I try to make sure we're giving enough context for it to be understood there um yeah so yeah Lou talks about a lot of stuff that we have heard before he gets a little more into the details broad Strokes he confirms David gush's narrative about a illegally concealed crash retrieval and reverse engineering program um okay but he also gets into some like wonky stuff you know like he talks about his firsthand experience with uh UFOs he talks about uh crash retrievals and alien bodies in possession of the US military he talks about alien implants oh right yeah that's a genuinely new yeah now that's not new in the community but it's new from any of the these kind of like core nuts and bolts characters like Lou and Chris who have barely touched the idea of who is piloting these craft they've been very focused on the Craft um yeah and then the bol of the book obviously sorry go ahead did so um this all started with the question of will there be multiple episodes are you I mean it's starting to sound like there's definitely enough in here yeah yeah I think there is and that's why I was feeling kind of silly is because I I think partly because I I churned through the book so quickly I was left with kind of a highle impression it wasn't until I sat down and looked at my notes and realized like Jesus any effort to try to condense this into a oneish hour narrative is just gonna fail miserably I'm gonna have to cut so much and I'll tell you the congratulations Discord you were right the the part that made me realize that we're definitely going to have to record multiple episodes is um obviously this book is presented as a memoir of L's time within the Secret Pentagon UFO program so there is backstory about Lou his time with project Stargate how that led to him joining assap how eventually ASAP became a tip and Lou became the director how Lou eventually left atip and went out into the world and joined to the Stars Academy how to the Stars Academy imploded and Lou and Chris melon ended up working hand inand with Congress to draft legislation that stuff felt like it wasn't news because frankly we've lived it like in the time we've been recording the show we've been talking about all of this on virtually a daily basis so it didn't feel like news but of course it is news and yeah I I I kept going back and forth on is this to inside baseball or not and uh what it reminded me of um Chuck back when you and I worked together at a company called metal toad we had a boss um who was trying to encourage me to do more public speaking and at the time HTML 5 had just come out that's how old I am everybody who's listening um and I was going to give a presentation on HTML 5 and being a big nerd I had a bunch of slides in there about how HTML 5 came about because of the failure of the w3c pushing xhtml as like a stricter version of HTML and how the browser manufacturers wanted nothing to do with it and they started up a competing group standards body and made this thing and like I was fascinated by this stuff our boss sat me down he's like Scott no one cares about this [Laughter] he didn't use the words inside baseball but that's what he meant it was like this is way too in the weats people are here to hear about the HTML5 stuff talk about the new you know attributes and the new elements that's the stuff people are excited about I was like okay and I was really annoyed at the time because I loved that stuff yeah but he was right about the target audience and what should have gone in the presentation so anyway I had a similar feeling here like oh wow I could do a whole episode on how Lou became the director of atip and how he left and how Lou and Chris are responsible for all the legislation but is it to inside baseball and I finally realized no no it's not first of all if anybody out there is not interested in that I apologize we're definitely G do that episode but also I was falling into the Trap of thinking about all the things we've talked about over the last two years of this podcast and forgetting that the vast majority of our audience has joined us fairly recently and probably didn't listen to those episodes and may not be as intimately familiar with who's who and what's happened where so anyway we've got multiple episodes coming up at the very least we'll have this inside baseball episode we'll probably have an episode specifically on crash retrieval and reverse engineering basically kind of how Lou is echoing David gush's allegations and what Lou says that supports them and where Lou goes further um we may do an entire episode on one of the weirdest parts of the book which we'll talk about in a few minutes which is where Hal POF basically figured out how UFOs work what okay yeah there's some wild in this book so anyway I don't particularly know how many episodes we're going to get out of this at least two maybe up to four who knows it'll depend on how much people like it it'll depend on how interested I still am because we do these episodes every two weeks so you know how am I gonna feel two months from now maybe something big and exciting will happen in the UFO world and we'll drop the book and move on but that brings us back to today right like what are we actually talking about today so yeah what reason the notes are not as tight as usual is we're doing a more kind of Loosey Goosey free form episode today I've got a small list of kind of highlevel takeaways from the book uh there's about 10 of them that are kind of like if I was telling someone what's in the book these are the things I want to mention and Chuck hasn't looked at them yet but he's going to ask me about these topics and then I will give you an off-the-cuff sum of it I am not referencing notes I am not I don't have a ton of like quotes here that'll all come in more detailed episodes but what I want to do today is kind of a highlevel overview of what's in the book okay so uh so at the end of each of these sections you're expecting that uh that I have something intelligent to say correct no sorry that that's unfair to put on you I I meant you were going to read the the topic line at the top like Scott I heard Lou was recruited into assap because and then I'll I'll go talk about it okay cool all right uh well are you ready for me to start talking about the book that I didn't read I'm sorry man I couldn't think of a veter structure here this definitely falls under hashtag let Chuck talk episode like normally I try really hard to put in good points where you can talk intelligently about it reacted I don't really know a good way to do that when I am effectively delivering you a book report yeah yeah yeah yeah okay well that's fine uh I've inserted some sections for me to respond um and I'm happy to read the first parts so all right uh topic one um I hear that Lou was recruited into assap because he was part of project Stargate tell me that yeah so two episodes ago we did an episode on remote viewing and project Stargate which was the pentagon's secret super spy program where they hired uh powerful psychics to do uh Intel Community work and I still can't think of this outside of uh sg1 like it's so weird hear star yeah anyway well and I don't know did the program come before the show was the show named did someone find out there was a pentagon program I I don't know anyway um oh we should find out so we knew beforehand that Lou had a background as a remote viewer we didn't really know what that meant nobody had really talked about it Lou to his credit did not want to talk about it he's out there trying to get people to talk about nuts and bolts stuff and craft and rightly perceived that disclosing that he was a trained remote viewer for the Pentagon might distract from his real play I don't blame him for not doing it but he does talk about it in the book um did so did he got the training um did he talk in the book about re his experiences remote viewing it's really interesting so basically he's in his 20s he has been operating as a counterterrorism kind of guy and he's approached by this dude who he describes as like the recruiter for all the weird projects and he interviews Lou and he asks him if he knows anything about remote viewing Lou says no he proceeds to do some training now Lou is very nondescript about what this training looks like he doesn't talk about where it is when it is how long it was was he doing it with anybody was it just him and this dude in a hotel room somewhere did he go to the Pentagon like it's very unclear but basically he receives all of the remote viewing training and he talks about all the same stuff we talked about two episodes ago yeah he literally describes his trainer coming to him like holding up an envelope and saying uh describe to me what's in the envelope he talks about his trainer coming to him with a set of coordinates saying tell me what's at these coordinates without having any idea what the coordinates correspond to um things like that and basically he describes the training was successful he started getting good at this and he was looking forward to joining the like cadra of operators who have this training when he receives word that the program has been shut down ah okay so as far as I could tell Lou was in Project Stargate in the sense that he received the project Stargate training but he never actually operated within the program he just finished the training jeez my cats are jumping on the death hello c yeah um so yeah it's really interesting the the main thing he describes there's two takeaways that I thought were really interesting one is he says his takeaway is the talent is not rare the training is he says most people have this ability to a greater or lesser extent and could be trained up but most people don't have access to the training um interesting thing he says is he used it in field operations now this was not him being tasked as a remote viewer but he's saying he's operating as a field person out in you know Afghanistan or something and he'll get Intel and he would sit down and use his remote viewing to kind of check the thing out and he literally describes one time turning down a mission he's like no I've got a bad feeling about this one and he doesn't go and then the team that they sent in his place encountered an IED now oh wow you know if you're inclined to not believe any of this stuff obviously there's nothing saying this isn't a coincidence but L's narrative through and through is very clear project Stargate was effective the people they trained were able to do it and the program was shut down because of religious fundamentalism fears straight up people said you're doing the devil's work and they shut it down because they were afraid of it not because it was ineffective now that doesn't quite match what we found in our remote viewing research but this gets back to where were we hearing that the program was shut down because it was ineffective we were hearing about that from the Pentagon so right I don't know man you know make this you will yeah okay I I like the idea that uh that the talent isn't rare but the training is it right I think all of us have that instance where where our intuition says this feels feels icky and you later find out that it was in fact icky um yeah and you get that a lot when you look into any psychic stuff like the idea is that humans are latently psychic but it is not something that we are particularly skilled at it's not something we use on a daily basis but there are little moments like you've had a moment where you felt like someone was looking at you and you look up and they were there's nothing in traditional science to explain how you could perceive someone who isn't in your eyeline is looking at you but you just kind of know sometimes or you have a feeling someone's talking about you or you think about someone a minute before they call you just those weird little synchronicities so there's definitely some evidence that this is like a latent human thing that can come out with training and some people are just very good at it now I didn't want to bring this up but I'm gonna real briefly mention this we've talked a lot about Gary Nolan Lou intersects with Gary Nolan in the book because they hire Gary Nolan to do some research into uh MRI scans on people who have had UAP encounters and um the audience who Gary Nolan is Gary Nolan is a oh God he's an IMU immunologist uh at Stanford I think that's right s right yeah anyway apologies if he's a well regarded well regarded doctor um physician extremely well regarded yeah um so he was hired to look at a bunch of MRIs for people who had had UAP encounters and lingering biological effects um okay and Gary has talked about this before basically they discovered that a section of the brain called the CATE paman was enlarged in these people and Gary has proposed further research into this and he's like you can't really get funding for UAP research but what you can do is do multiple controlled studies so you have a control group and you have another group who you are actually investigating and also you have a third Group which is this data set you've been given by the Pentagon that you're not saying it's UAP but that's what that why the Pentagon gave it to you and they looked into um people with Autism and uh people who had interacted with uaps all had enlarged cod8 pans compared to the Baseline samples um interesting this stuff is well outside my field of knowledge I don't really understand it so we haven't talked about it a lot but this is one of the things that Nolan is known for Lou in the book makes the connection that the people who were trained in remote viewing who were who were good at it also had enlarged Cotate paman and they were able to determine that the people who were most likely to have UAP encounters effects uh psychic abilities Etc were people with Cherokee blood which is a wild connection to make and he's like basically everyone in a tip turned out to have Cherokee blood on at some level and anyway it's wild stuff I don't know how much credit to give it but uh yeah really really wild like was the title of that chapter is autism caused by aliens like this is one of my frustrations with the book um you as I have heard Lou wrote the book himself this was not a case of Lou working with a ghost riter and to L's credit he is a very good communicator he is not a particularly good uh putting things together in a logical narrative kind of way so if you were looking up one particular topic it's scattered throughout the book because he has chosen to do it more Chron logically based on when he encountered it rather than when things kind of grouped together naturally so there's stuff about alien bodies kind of scattered around the book there's stuff about you know this uh biological effects kind of scattered Dre book and it makes it a little hard to read if you're looking for what are what are the big takeaways yeah got it okay should we move on to the next one yeah let's do it okay so some thing about Lou seeing orbs in his house yeah so we've heard that Lou has firstand experience with uaps um okay and one of the things that you find out if you dig into this for a while is that one of the most common type of UAP is what they call an orb just a free floating ball of glowing energy they're does not appear to be a structure to it but it moves around intellig ently now if you're a skeptic you might try to think like oh it might be ball lightning or a trick of the light or something like that but that doesn't describe the way these things move around now one of the things Lou says is when he interviewed for the job at oap uh okay the guy he was interviewing with warned him that quote these portfolios are sticky and he actually says in the book I didn't know what he meant by that uh portfolio is a word we use for like you know the the information that comes with the project sticky maybe he meant controversial in hindsight I should have asked yeah what he turns out to have meant by it is there's a term that is now in common use in the uh in the field uh called The Hitchhiker effect which we actually know about from Skinwalker Ranch uh so George knp and the the guys from uh oap have written couple of books about the skinwalker research that Bob Bigalow and the Pentagon did and one of the things they found was people who went to Skinwalker Ranch and experienced paranormal effects those effects followed them home and I don't mean that metaphorically I mean literally they would go home and weird things would start happening in their house Poltergeist activities weird noises hauntings um dog men like large bipedal humanoid sized dogs menacing your family your uh your spouse and your children would see these things independently of you your neighbors close friends of the family like it behaved like an infection which is a very strange thing so yeah the hit Cher effect Lou said everybody in oap was seeing orbs was having experiences himself included the orbs were seen repeatedly around the house by his wife by his kids by his neighbors he jokes at one point about his neighbors seeing one and turning him like is this one of the weird government programs you're working on Lou and he's like ha his wife at one point literally asks him did you bring home something from work that you weren't supposed to yeah so this is not just like his eyes being open to a phenomena or being more observant it like everyone is seeing it he's very clear Lou takes um the secrecy part of this extremely seriously his wife had no idea what he was working on she didn't know he was working on UFOs his kids certainly didn't and of obviously his neighbors didn't his neighbors but Stillen now he's very clear that these orbs were not menacing harassing threatening there were no ill effects he does note that their research showed that orbs come in a bunch of different colors and the blue ones for some reason seemed to be associated with ill effects uh things like radiation Burns uh menacing Behavior the orbs he saw were never never felt the need to tell his family to avoid them but like he kind of notes like that's where his head is at what are these things are they alien are they surveillance is it a foreign government thing he has no idea but like it just kind of became a thing like yeah there's an orb floating down the hallway what color were were his orbs uh I think he said green and clear oh okay well that's good good for him at least very strange or conclusion so in in Star Trek you know when people inevitably have a um teleporter problem and get stuck in between Realms or whatever um there's always that like they can have limited effects and like they tend to hang out around the people who uh who might be able to perceive the effect or something right I just wonder if it's something like that where they're like here now of them yeah yeah exactly interesting okay or conversely they're around all of us all the time and you don't become aware of them until you're exposed to someone who like there are so many questions there are no answers it's just yeah right like a chapter it's an anecdote he shares my experience with orbs wild do you do you know did he ever try like touching them or capturing them or um he doesn't mention that which is interesting you would kind of think that he would try that but he also is very clear that everyone else on the program was seeing them and some people were experiencing ill effects so I get the impression that the vibe was just kind of leave them alone but I I don't know that that is a really good question that is not answered in the book dude I would immediately invite them to breakfast like hey you want some f and like start befriending them until I don't know yeah totally befriend them okay so uh the next next one says that uh Roswell was real and bodies were recovered um what's talk about this is really interesting not because it's news we've been hearing controversial claims of Roswell and bodies being recovered at Roswell for years and years and years from many different people what's interesting about it is when David grush came out after getting all of his statements cleared someone asked him about Roswell and he said Point Blank I'm not allowed to talk about Roswell Lou apparently is now as far as I can tell Lou went through the same doser approval process that David grush did he submitted his book uh one funny detail about the book is there are sections of it that are blacked out right yeah you mentioned that did it to doser doser came back and said you can't say this stuff and they do what they do for foyer request they just literally took a black marker to parts of the manuscript now you would expect that he would go in and rewrite it to leave out those references no he just left the censored Parts intact which kind of gives you like an empty hole and you're like why would they black this out what about this is but anyway apparently Roswell was not a problem now it may be that Roswell not a problem because he doesn't say I know for a fact that Roswell happened what he says is while I was being briefed and on board into the team I was told that Roswell was real he straight up says uh someone said well this all dates back to Roswell he says wait Roswell was real the guy says yes Lou Roswell was real a craft was brought down and four non-human deceased bodies were recovered wow so okay maybe we get away with it because he's presenting it as a quote from someone else I don't know man um and he he does include some more information later in the book Hal POF uh theorizes that the Roswell UAP was brought down by EMP testing that they were doing nearby um interesting so we know that Roswell is kind of near all the Missile Range and everything they were doing out there and apparently they were running tests on how to generate emps without having a nuclear weapon going off which you know you could imagine how that'd be useful um and apparently brought down yeah it sounds like uh those devices um hpms and uh no hpms and e-bombs weren't until a lot longer afterwards uh interesting yeah yeah I maybe but yeah um so they don't get into any details on it but they do just point blank say Roswell was real we brought down a UFO and we recovered dead bodies interesting and now I want to know like did they did they target like the EMP for just the right moment or was it a total accident I don't know P off makes it sound like for Roswell at least it was unintentional but there is there have been rumors for years in the UFO world that the military learned how to bring down UAP and okay if you believe that narrative it kind of makes sense like oh we did it by accident once and then we did it on purpose a bunch of times you know yeah yeah great another detail they share which again is something that the community has known about for years but it's always good to get one more Source kind of confirming it yeah all of the families in the area were explicitly threatened by the military to keep silent about the crash okay like um are these families on base or nearby no the military base was actually a ways away Roswell was basically like a farming town at the time um so families who lived in the area who may have been exposed to the crash or the recovery of the crash were visited and threatened to keep their silence and we have heard to be clear we have heard this for years but we get a little bit of confirmation in the book yeah that that feels very Men In Black um that is interesting okay cool I don't have any any strong questions about that it sounds like it was mostly just confirm right yeah and here's the thing we've never done an episode on Roswell because Roswell is a mess it is kind of the ER UFO case like the the prototypical one that if anybody's heard about UFOs they've heard about Roswell and there's so much there and it's almost impossible to sort out fact from fiction from Legend from coverup um you know the the US military has always denied that Roswell was UFO but they have changed their story on what it was something like seven times since the 40s so like it's a mess we've never done an episode on Roswell we probably never will um there is a case that came up in the book that we probably will do an episode on which is Lou talks about when he was getting onboarded he went to a dinner with uh a bunch of of people from Brazil as part of his duties and was informed about the events in Karis Brazil now if you've watched their uh UFO show that they did on the History Channel back in 2018 uh era um they devoted a whole episode to this it's a very well-known case in the community but in a nutshell Karis is really weird because unlike almost every other UFO story you will ever hear colaris involves UFOs behaving in a hostile manner to humans um there are many many confirmed reports of people sustaining injuries from encounters with UFOs hostile Behavior threatening behavior um the military was called in and investigated it there was a big cover up it came out you know a while ago um so yeah we totally interesting case and the part of the reason I think it's interesting and the reason why people are kind of uncomfortable with it is almost every other UFO encounter on the record is I wouldn't say benevolent but is is like neutral they're not aggressive and we've talked a lot about how the vibe of the Pentagon seems to be look we don't know what these things are and admitting that would be super embarrassing but also they don't seem to pose any real threat they've been coexisting with us and other than a few close calls they've never done anything so why bother looking into it all of that kind of goes out the window once you hear about Karis and we've talked a lot about L's kind of threat narrative it makes a little more sense in the book finding out that this was one of the first things he learned is is that UFOs are real and also they have attacked people not commonly that's not the regular interaction but it has happened and if you are a guy whose entire career has been evaluating threats you're not gonna throw away that data point so totally we'll probably do an episode on Karis at some point okay sounds good um yeah okay but tell me about alien implants yeah so this is one of the few things that has been getting pressed if you have seen anything about Lou being covered in the mainstream media they're either repeating that he says that the military has recovered uh non-human bodies or they're talking about the alien implants I never would have guessed that he would talk about alien implants because yeah Chris melon and Lou alzando we've talked about this already have been very message driven their message was there are things flying around in our airspace we don't know what they are and bare minimum we should be paying attention to them it's a very straightforward message and they have very carefully avoided anything that would muddy that message including discussing who's flying that they will dance right up to the point of admitting that they're nonhuman but they will do zero speculation about who they are why they're here um yeah and that means by definition they're definitely not getting into um abductee stuff and this is a kiding thing in the community is you there the the uh the community likes to refer to themselves as experiencers rather than abductees gives them a little more um a little more power in the engagement uh but um the experience or narratives are to be blunt weird it's yeah it is not as simple as oh yeah the they're abducting humans to gather genetic materials there are stories of that but there's also weird stories of like you know like picking your brain sending messages about uh environmental catastrophes um weird breeding programs uh taking people Planet like it it does not appear to be one thing and it's messy and incoherent to talk about it and I understand why a nuts and bolts type person would avoid it and one of really hard is some of the experiences come back and say I saw them put something in my body or they wake up in the morning and they have evidence like they they they have an incision and they can feel something in their skin or they're just kind of aware of it but there's very few cases of these things being successfully extracted and we've heard wild stories like when they are pulled out um they are they appear to have been grown in place out of human tissu so that they look normal um yeah they migrate around the body in a way that makes zero freaking sense that should leave a trail of Destruction but it doesn't it doesn't trigger an immune response there's so many questions about it Lou has a an extended section in the book talking about it now Lou has a background in microbiology so the way he talks about it is uh there was a scientist on the team who was focused on health effects and because of Lou's background in microbiology he would pester this guy with questions and he said one of the things he would bug him about most was alien implants he's like this doesn't make any sense and the guy's like yeah it doesn't you're right but Lou claims in the book to have held an extracted alien implant in his hand and to have talked to doctors who have pulled them out of US military service members who have encountered uaps he describes them as being like microchips surrounded in living tissue and he repeats again the claim that they are mobile they will move around the body to resist extraction and even once they are extracted they will move around in the P tree dish until they eventually run out of energy and wow he's described like doctors they have worked with who are like no I'm out I want nothing more to do with this like it's aligned too far um now unfortunately like the orbs there is no conclusion there are no follow-up questions he doesn't like really settle any question are they tracking devices are they uh monitoring things are they releasing chemicals like what are they for there's zero answers he just point blank talks about alien implants and that is a buck wild inclusion in this book that I was not expecting yeah seriously for someone so like focused on the nuts and bolts um do you think he was trying to give it a little bit more um it sounds like previously it's been a total mess and so is he trying to clean it up a little bit and um help people see uh some of the things that they should be looking at within that mess I don't actually no if I had to guess I would guess that what Lou did was put literally everything he ever learned into a manuscript and turn it over to the dod expecting that they were going to black out about a third of it sure yeah and they didn't black this out what does that mean you know as we've talked about before doser approval doesn't mean it's true it means it's not a national secret yeah I don't or one that uh nobody wants to acknowledge as a national secret yeah yeah exactly also interesting and so I think Lou probably put in the bits that he knew he could verify if someone were to ask him about it he avoided speculation and just saw what would get through and this got through yeah okay interesting yeah alien implants man super wild um does he talk about what they do no okay we don't know no because they don't know like they're very weird it is it is not a device it's not something that it does not appear to be a Hu a natural growth of the body even though it is surrounded in living tissue but yeah super super weird I suspect we'll be hearing more about that um yeah ah it's so interesting that that's what that's one of the things that the news picked up of all the things like well because it's weird and new you know yeah um yeah like I said I suspect we probably have a follow-up episode here um it may be the same episode it may be different but we've got at least a follow-up episode on the crash retrieval Legacy program and also probably a follow-up episode on alien bodies alien implants things like that which are kind of like more evidence of who's in The Craft than just the craft themselves maybe that's the same episode I don't know okay well we'll see um speaking of Craft um mentioned earlier that uh how P off had figured out how UFOs work I want to know more about that yeah this is definitely goingon to be a follow-up episode um as an aerospace nerd you're gonna have a lot of fun with this but he basically tells the story about coming into a skiff one day and halut off is in there like frantically scribbling a massive equation onto the board and when he gets rewind what's a skiff uh secur compartmented information facility I believe or secret what's the purpose uh it's basically a secure room where you can talk about classified information it's like a faraday cage um literally they shipping containers usually sometimes they're custom built into a building but often they are a separate like shipping container style room where that's basically a conference room uh that's designed not to be heard um okay so he gets in there how's doing his equation yeah and and I want you to picture like you know uh crazy Doc Brown style you know like frantically scribbling an equation up on the board and he said he finishes the equation he looks out at everybody and he goes down the list of the five observables and he goes uh you know hyper velocity check low observability check uh trans medium travel check just like goes through all of them and says this equation shows it's possible uh he says Point Blank this is no longer a theoretical challenge it is now a technological challenge it's not interesting you know how does it work it's how do you build it and in a nutshell what he describes is being able to generate a warp bubble around you now I don't 100% understand this we're going to do a deeper Di later but he says imagine this warp bubble like a diving bell that has a different environment on the inside than the outside okay this allows them to move faster than you would expect because they're literally not interacting with the environment this allows them to move faster than the things around them because due to time dilation they're moving at what seems like a normal speed to them but we're moving slow motion um this allows them to go into the water without making a splash because from their perspective they're moving very slowly like there's a whole thing here I don't want to get too into it it's I know it sounds crazy and weird just bear with me but he gets into it in the book and he takes it a step further and explains how the shape of the warp bubble which is spherical determines the shape of the craft he says obviously if you want to make the most use of this warp bubble in a perfect world you would build a spherical craft but a spherical craft would be very impractical once you turned the field off well what is a stable shape that works when the field is off a saucer so you perfectly use the circle in one dimension but you don't use up all of it and it can still land um he also describes how what if you had a larger craft and he goes through common shapes of craft we often see these cigar shaped craft well you would put a wart Bubble at each end of The Craft covered the whole thing if you had a triangle craft you would put a wart Bubble at Each corner a very big triangle craft you put a fourth one in the middle the giant Boomerang craft that we saw in the Phoenix Lights have bubble bubble bubble bubble you know like yeah so I'm not saying that it makes perfect sense but we have heard similar claims from the community for years including oh I wish I had looked it up uh there's a website out there where a guy has written down basically how UFOs work and it's basically this Theory and what's really interesting in it is it describes how this explains why they glow brightly and it has to do with the way that the warp field shifts the way that light comes through it it effectively um moves uh energy up or down the Spectrum so you're basically dealing with red shift yeah exactly like just from the craft sitting there it is automatically shifting normal energy up into visible spectrum um it also explains time dilation effects like as you get closer you're moving into their bubble and time proceeds slower for you than the outside world you come like oh it's been five minutes you've lost four hours um right anyway it's fck wild stuff we're almost certainly going to do a whole episode about it I you know I'm not a rocket scientist I don't know how this stuff works Chuck is adjacent to rocket science uh but yeah warp warp bubble theory is a whole other ball game no but there's there's some stuff there um I I did some research on the albiar drive and one of the challenges with with it is that um yeah you do get to a place but you're still going the velocity you were beforehand and that can be a real problem when you're in a a different area um especially a different galaxy or a different uh system they can be moving really I don't know how you figure that out but it's fascinating I remember um I don't remember what episode it was but we were talking about someone who said they they were sharing information from inside the program and one of the things they shared was the energy output of one of these recovered craft was like the equivalent of the energy output of the United States in a calendar year halp off says in the book he's like basically what you need to do is warp space and there's two ways to do that and I forget what one of them was you know it's like you you have to have such such which we don't have and the other way is lot of energy like an obscene amount of energy yeah but if you have an obscene amount of energy you can absolutely warp space yeah yeah I believe it the uh the the first one you were talking about and that's how they do the albiar drive or that's the theory uh was uh exotic materials that have negative Mass yeah or that kind of thing um so would be a very exotic material I have no idea what you're referring to but yeah that's uh what it it would react uh the opposite to gravity yeah yeah so you'd fall up um as well as many other things yeah very weird yeah all right cool well um so let's move on to um so L Lou took over ATP due religious OB C to skin walker Ranch investigations what is that about yeah okay so something that has been very unclear about and Lou in fact complains about this in the book is we first found out about atip in 2017 when Lou resigned and spoke to the New York Times Lou was the director of a program called atip in the article they described a Secret Pentagon program that involved something like $12 million of funding from Congress that did a bunch of paranormal Investigations out on Skinwalker Ranch as well as UAP investigations the problem is that program is a different program called oap Lou ran atip these are different programs the New York Times article makes no distinguishment between them we then heard some push back from people who were involved in assap saying atip wasn't a thing that was just a nickname for AAP um we heard that um when Harry Reed tried to turn assap into a special Access program so that it would have accessed all this stuff um they used the proposed name a tip for it it's been a mess like nobody's really able to say not to mention that the whole time the Pentagon has been denying that the program ever existed and if it did L Alando certainly didn't run it and even if he did run it it was un official and had no funding you know the story has changed many times so Lou gets into it a bit more in the book and this is the whole inside baseball story that I told you about we probably do a whole episode on this but the short version is Lou is recruited into a program called ASAP which investigated uaps uh they investigated the Nimitz case they went out interviewed all those guys so they were doing the military UAP side of it but they were also doing what we would think of as paranormal investigations now the lead scientist uh latsky was very clear we don't know that it's distinct from UAP at Skinwalker Ranch they experienced paranormal stuff they also experience uip is this stuff all related we'll only know if we study it scientifically so they spent a lot of time and money going out to Skinwalker Ranch and studying paranormal and they wrote papers about it now Lou gets way into the weeds talking about basically a change in command of who oap is reporting to and it went from their commanding officers being very receptive to them being extremely hostile to it and Point Blank the reason given was this is demonic leis told you're working for people who are doing the devil's work like uh latky comes is under an extreme amount of pressure and Lou paints a picture here and I I should I should actually put a little footnote here and be clear there is a bit of controversy around this part and the word on the street is that latsky is also preparing a book about his time at the Pentagon and that perhaps he is unhappy with L's portrayal of events so I'm just G to preface this by saying this is lose version of events which may or may not be wholly accurate but it does kind of explain some things Lou says oap was coming under increasing pressure and latky was basically unwilling to water down the way that he talked to anyone about it and he's using words like archangels and angels and demons and boltergeist and you know they're talking to people in con who like why the f are we paying for this right no this is nonsense so Lou describes how they realized the only way that they were going to be able to keep the UAP part of it alive was to break it off into its own program called atip ATP was a nickname that AAP went by it is also the name of the program that Lou ran sure right there was at one point going to be funding for it that funding was stolen due to hazy understanding and Abstract descriptions of the program in order to not give away what the program was about they had to write it in a very vague way that allowed another program to swoop in and steal their funding so Lou describes they're basically running this thing on a shoestring budget it's him and like three other people out of his office he had recently been promoted he was able to give it cover and keep the whole thing nestled under his portfolio but this is why the Pentagon can get was saying there was no official program because Lou to keep it from getting squashed was kind of keeping it secret this is why the Pentagon could say there was no funding there was no funding this is why the Pentagon could say no one was officially assigned to ATP because they weren't um yeah makes sense yeah basically Skinwalker Ranch involved a bunch of paranormal research which was arguably scientific and valid but was rubbing people the wrong way and under pressure to shut the whole thing down Lou took it over and renamed it atip and ran it exclusively under his perview he's now the director of atip which is focused exclusively on looking at military encounters with UAP okay this um I have to say this all makes sense to me in in actuality like At first I wouldn't have believed it but um uh lately at work I feel like I've been I've seen more of that kind of happening like some of my projects don't have a a program manager I still get paid just fine and I still have some folks who don't actually report to me but they do work on this project like yeah clearly writing this book from the perspective of a disgruntled Insider who dedicated his career to the Pentagon believes strongly in the mission and went from being a very successful field Ops kind of guy to a guy working in the Viper nest and like constant backstabbing and politics and frustration um but yeah we'll we'll talk about that more later that's sounds like he got promoted to management he very much did cool uh awesome okay so uh next section is a tip developed a UFO trap yeah I'm surprised that this one hasn't been getting more headlines yeah Lou describes um there comes a point where they are getting increasingly uh US military service members are encountering UAP and there is no guidance in place for what to do about it there is a severe amount of stigma there's no official reporting mechanism and what do we do is this a problem right um he describes how they would reach out to service members to get their statement on an event that had happened and the service member would just straight up lie to them I don't know what you're talking about nothing happened he said latsky got really good at reaching out to them and telling them what they wanted to hear listen I work for a special Access program I can't tell you what it is but it's ours and it would really help us if you could tell us what you saw so we could refine what we're doing to help avoid it being spotted in the same way there we go oh thank God this thing has been stressing me out so much now that I know it's ours yeah what I saw was X yeah that's perfect anyway Lou describes how they're doing all this research they're coming into it and they discover two things one UFOs are drawn to nuclear stuff um and we've talked about this before there's a whole book on the topic called UFOs and nukes which I highly recommend but basically anywhere the US military has nuclear stuff going on there is a dramatically higher than Baseline chance of UAP interactions um and the other thing that happens in for whatever reason is in the water uh this is part of why the Navy encounters it but like UFOs and water and UFOs and nukes are a thing so they're like okay well let's set up a trap he calls it a Honeypot he says let's put a nuclear powered carrier strike group out in the middle of the Atlantic and he describes putting a big nuclear like Beacon and he doesn't describe what that is but let's assume for the moment they put a ton of nuclear missiles on one of the carriers sure specifically for the purpose of summoning uaps they're like this happens anyway let's take advantage of it and will'll just pepper all of the ships around there with our top data collection intelligence gathering devices and he's very clear in the book he's like I can't tell you what they are but trust me we were G to get some good data they put together a plan for this and Lou is thrilled he's like this is going to be great we're gonna finally investigate this safety risk and they run it up chain of commands and the Pentagon wanted nothing to do with it they were like this is weird yeah and none of our business yeah so this is kind of the start of lose disillusionment with the Pentagon for reasons that we have discussed and we'll continue discussing Lou is primed to see this through a lens of uh uh national Safety and threats and he's very clear to say I don't necessarily mean they're hostile but until we no they're not it's stupid not to look at it like as someone who is trained to evaluate threats to the United States this is something that could be an existential threat and the fact that we're not looking at it at all is criminally NE negligent that's always been his take and here he is like hey I'm the guy who's been investigating the UAP I am hearing across the board these things are happening our service members are freaked out we have no guidance we have no information let's do this and the Pentagon says no thanks yeah yeah I mean the way the way this is presented I don't know if this what he meant um but I could absolutely imagine them saying like no we're not going to send out a carrier strike group uh for this random thing um if he had found a carrier strike group that already had all those asset and suggested adding some people there maybe but right I don't know well and not to put too fine a point on it but the two biggest cases that Lou and Chris melan lean on are the 2004 Nimitz Tic Tac encounter which was hey guess what the USS Nimitz was a carrier nuclear powered carrier strike group yeah and the 2014 USS Roosevelt carrier strike group training exercise like both of these were nuclear carrier strike groups out in the water encountering uaps makes sense and like I'm not saying he did it wrong like I don't know he's a smart cookie I'm sure he did the best that he possibly could um yeah but it is a shame that that we weren't able to get that to happen that would have been very interesting yeah um so it sounds like you mentioned this like the beginning of his frustration and the next section is that uh that he left the Pentagon because he couldn't brief the SE what is that about yeah so we actually knew about this already but he gets way more into the details and again this is part of our inside baseball episode we'll do but in a nutshell as time goes on Lou is becoming increasingly frustrated that no one is taking this Potential Threat seriously and he has a number of things happen that lead to him needing either cover or permission from higher up the chain of command um his direct supervisors are extremely opposed to this stuff um there's a whole freaking thing here about his direct boss is actively opposed to Lou and that guy later ended up uh excuse me um having a whole like case against him because of sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior and yeah but the SE def at the time the secretary of defense is James Mattis a guy that Lou knows personally and has worked with in the field he tells a few stories about working with Mattis at one point he tells a story about coming in and telling him they're they're out in Afghanistan somewhere he says there's going to be a rocket strike in 10 minutes and Mattis turns around he's like I want all the heos in the air I want people up I want you like starts yelling at everybody they turns around looks at Lou he goes hope you're right yeah but like he didn't like so Lou describes if I could just sit with Mattis I know he would want to hear this yeah but Mattis is the new SE Def and is in a vulnerable position politically and basically everyone between Lou and the SE def want nothing to do with the UFO guy man get out of here and he he describes like trying to follow the chain of command and he's talking to mattis's front desk and they're requesting briefing materials and he's sending Witnesses and like throwing all of his data at them and they just wouldn't do anything yeah and he actually has a really interesting bit where he he addresses the question that someone like you and I might wonder why not just call him like you know him just like hey you know James like meet me downstairs for coffee I've got something to tell you and he's very clear he's like okay listen we're all civilians at the Pentagon now we're all former military but like technically this is a civilian organization but the chain of command is very much still in effect and like you can tell he's having difficulty even expressing how severe a mistake it would have been for him to go over the chain of command he's like it would be uh a sign of disrespect to the general himself for me to do that um so all of that is to say Lou keeps coming back to this idea of is it a threat and he has a section in the book at one point where he says look there's three possibilities they're benevolent they're neutral or they're malevolent he's like we have evidence to suggests they're not benevolent as much as some of the more hippie dippy side of the UAP like to portray them as you know our space brothers who are here to help us out they don't seem to be taking any steps to help us um right he has one thing that he mentions that I find a little hilarious he's like that didn't stop us from dropping the bomb that didn't stop us from developing the bomb they haven't stopped anybody else from making bombs and bombing like they don't seem to have any interest in stopping us from developing and using nuclear technology they do seem to be extremely interested interested in what we're doing but they don't seem to have any interest in intervening right we also have uh signs that they are not neutral and again he leans heavily on colaris he leans heavily on reports about UFOs switching nuclear missiles on and off you know like so he never comes out and says I think they're a threat but what he makes a pretty ing case is as a guy who is trained to evaluate threats he can't rule it out and there is evidence to suggest they may be a threat um one of the things he says is the way that they behave looks like Recon if we were going to another country that we didn't know anything about the people there how we would prepare to invade or interact with them would look a lot like what they're doing here autonomous drones heavy data Gathering surveilling everything limited interactions limited engagements getting a feel for it he's like I don't know that's what they're doing I don't want to be alarmist but again he thinks it's dumb to stick our head in the sand and ignore it completely because it's probably not that he's like we have no way to evaluate that and it may be and there's evidence to support it so why the aren't we looking into it why am I having so much trouble getting anyone to listen to me and I think straw that broke the camel's back is he found one of the defense contractors who has recovered material he spoke to the the defense contractor and they said yes we have it we can't give you access unless you get permission from the head of the Air Force well the head of the Air Force leg arily opposed to uh any UFO like this was basically call our Bluff um well higher than the head of the Air Force the SE def so kind of sets his sight on I need to get the SE def involved uh to approve this Honeypot mission to get us access to this defense contractor like we have basically hit the limit of what our group is capable of doing without the air cover that someone like the sect def could give us right and he can't get access to him he tries and he tries and he tries and finally he ends up resigning now we already know this part from the 2017 article we'll talk about it more in uh the inside baseball but basically he resigns and he writes two resignation letters one to his direct bosses who are not led into the UAP program so he cannot tell them about it okay one to Mattis personally to the Secretary of Defense Dear Sir it it's been an honor serving with you I am resigning out of frustration because no one will take this UAP issue seriously it is a clear and present threat I really hope you will see my resignation as a red flag that this needs investigation he puts that in an envelope hands it to mattis's front desk it is yeah addressed to the Secretary of Defense James status yeah awesome now after he leaves he suffers a smear campaign uh because what does after he leaves is he joins to the stars and he starts talking publicly about it um a few things happened one all of his emails were deleted now Lou says this was presented as kind of a routine data preservation thing you know some it guy was like oh we don't need all these emails anymore just purge them except Lou was involved in guantan Bay now I haven't talked about this yet because it is a vanishingly small part of the book he mentions it in passing a number of times mostly in reference to I was now working on the Guantanamo portfolio and flying back and forth to Guantanamo he does have one section where he talks about when there was political pressure to shut down Guantanamo Bay people were blaming him for keeping it open they were like don't talk to me Lando is responsible for keeping guantan Bay open he's like now I did think we should keep it open but the idea that a gs15 civil servant could be responsible for keeping this thing open against the wishes of his superiors is insane I don't know Lou is clearly a patriot he's clearly a guy who believes that what we did in Guantanamo Bay was not bad which I have issues with um whatever the point is Lou is named in court in the 9911 trials as the US Zar of torture and there is a court preservation order on any material Lou alzando had because it may be relevant to the court case and then they deleted all his emails anyway to avoid having to confirm that he was involved in UFOs now got it Lou kind of dances around this point but I think it's worth talking about someone at the Pentagon looked at this and said lose emails are going to do more damage to us on the UAP topic than they will serve Us in the court case against 911 he says they were willing to sacrifice evidence in the 911 case to keep this from coming out into the public it's hard to avoid reading it that way now I don't know if he's right maybe it really was just an IT guy who up and didn't know there was a court preservation order maybe the the person who deleted it did do it for political reasons but didn't know about the court order I don't know yeah but this is where we're getting into the messy part of the story it is undeniable that after l left the Pentagon he suffered a smear campaign every time Lou came up in public the Pentagon acted out against him they deleted his emails they denied a tip existed they denied Lou worked for them they denied that Lou ran the program they admitted he ran the program but the program had no budget it was unofficial anyway they attempted to remove his clearances to the point where he also had to file a complaint with the uh Inspector General um his resignation letter was not shared with the SE def until almost a year later when the New York Times was coming out and he says he heard great find that this came up basically James Mattis is at a dinner party and someone comes by and they're like sir you should know that Lou Lando's resignation letter is going to be leaked to the Press tomorrow says when did Lou resign oh no they kept it from him wow so I don't know that everything Lou says is the result of a malicious government conspiracy how much of his just normal bureaucratic fuckups how much of it is a single boss with an axide he makes it very clear that his direct Superior was Furious when he quit Chuck you and I have had bosses who got vindictive with us and we don't do anything important we're web developers um Lou shocks this up to the influence of the Legacy program yeah I'm not 100% prepared to go with him on this I believe that the Legacy program exists I believe that they are happy to set up barricades to prevent anyone from finding them I don't think the Pent the Legacy program actually gives a about Lou Alando I think the institution is just kind of instinctively designed to circle the here's a guy an Insider he was an intelligence person and he's now talking to the Press I don't care what he's talking to the Press about an enemy right fully believe that would be the culture there and the fact that he's talking about aliens is kind of irrelevant yeah yeah yeah interesting yeah I can see that um and the the whole removing clearances I thought clearances got removed immediately after you stopped working for like it requires a a sponsor so I don't actually 100% understand this what I do know is it is incredibly common for people in the Pentagon to go work in Private Industry and the threat to remove your clearances is effectively a threat to remove your ability to do work in the future but you're also right that clearances do require a sponsor we've heard that from David grash I'm hazy on this what I do know is this is something they talk about all the time is this is a threat leveraged against whistleblowers if you whistleblow you will lose your ability to have any work with the government in the future because we will make sure you don't get clearances yeah yeah okay I just I just did some quick Googling and there's a difference between inactive and revoked and that makes total sense okay yeah okay so anyway yeah Lou basically he he takes over atip because Skinwalker Ranch is controversial then it turns out even military UAP encounters are controversial and even there he's still getting push back from religious zealots telling him that this is all demons he increasingly hits roadblock after roadblock after roadblock and cannot get the cover that he needs from his superiors he cannot get access to the SE def so he resigns now we'll talk about this more in the inside baseball but in a nutshell he resigns and is immediately offered a job at T to the Stars Academy with Tom Delong and there's a really funny encounter where he describes going home and telling his wife that he is resigning because he's pushing for UFO transparency remember she doesn't know what he's been working news to and he's taking a job with blink white he says do you know do you remember uh uh Blink 182 and she's like the band the kids like are you gonna be a roie like oh my God right well I mean midlife crisis right yeah exactly so he takes a job with two of the stars and one thing that I appreciate he's clear about is this was not not a smart decision by resigning the Pentagon early his um uh I can't think of the word um pension fund his pension fund is locked out until he's 65 where normally you can start taking from it at like age 50 or something like that so much longer wait before you can access your pension fund he's putting himself at risk and any job he takes is going to be a severe pay cut and he's very clear about that Tom dong says yeah we're gonna offer you a job as our Counter Intelligence guy working at to the stars um but you have to move to California and his salary was gonna be a fraction of what he made at the pent really California ain't cheap so he describes they got this house they're struggling to pay for almost immediately the pandemic hits to the Stars practically folds overnight and his wife turns to they have long since started renting out the house that they bought because they can't afford to live there and are living in an RV on someone's land yeah his wife is like do we have to stay here if you don't go to the office anymore he's like well Tom told me we had to live in California she's like hun our home is on Wheels yeah so they moved you know elsewhere and uh Tom eventually called him and told him that uh he no longer had a job at to the stars and he's a little aimless and this is when he starts working with Chris melon um here's the thing we have talked before about how Chris melon and Lou alzando in particular among many others have been actively campaigning Congress um yeah The Logical word to use here is lobbyist but uh he actually quotes Chris at one point he says to be very clear we are not lobbyists lobbyists expect something we are here to inform Congress we have information that they very badly want they are not lobbyist I think that's a bit of semantics but I appreciate Chris knows how to play the game but yeah they basically shift fulltime into working with Congress now Lou also gets a job with the space force at some point in here yeah so he is he's a a contractor or an outside consultant or something for the space force uh and he doesn't really talk about that other than to say yeah the space force is very interested in UAP I would hope so right you guys got one job yeah yeah okay yeah because I was gonna ask like how is he making money if he's uh if do the stars fell apart during pandemic now here's the thing I knew Lou and Chris were lobbying Congress and pushing for this Lou does a very good job of portraying all of their interactions with Congress here and again we'll get into this in the inside baseball episode but B basically everything that Congress has done Lou and Chris were directly involved in holding their hand and pointing it at them they worked tirelessly to bring in eyewitnesses to brief Congress sending people in to verify this information making sure Congress understood and he said the message they got from Congress over and over again was oh my God like this is serious what can I do to help and he said well if there was legislation that would Force the Pentagon to be more transparent that would be helpful here's what we think would help he said the first thing they pushed for was to have Congress ask the Pentagon for an unclassified UAP report I thought about this because when it came out all the rest of us could focus on is there's a classified addendum that we don't get to see sure but Chris and Lou to their mind the unclassified part was the important one because was in the halls of Congress but it was all classified nobody could talk about it publicly simply by virtue of forcing the Pentagon to publish an unclassified version we're forcing the Pentagon to say UFOs are real and here's what we know about them and no matter how much whitewashing they tried to put on it no matter how much they tried to kind of boil it down be like yeah but I mean there's nothing really literally by just coming out and saying there are 400 unidentified cases and the most common shape we see yada yada that was a huge amount of progress interesting yeah every single thing they did from that point forward was basically in reaction or proactive but but it's a cat and mouse game between them and the Pentagon uh they the Pentagon hears that they're going to start pushing for an independent UAP office so the Pentagon says oh no worries we've proactively created this aoi MSG group who is going to have one guy and a budget of $10 and he's in a windowless office in the basement but see we've got a UFO office no need for you to make one and they came back and said no you have to make a UFO office it has to have this budget has to report to these people it has to do this yeah like they they held them to the wall then they made that office and they stole all the funding from it it was very clear this was the Legacy program with us they came in and stole the funding so we had to come back and fight on the funding uh yeah they they got nitpicky about language so we had to come back and get incredibly specific about what does UAP mean and specifically there was a bit we talked about where early on they said okay you have to give us a report on all the UAP and we have to create an office investigating uip and at any point if you determine that something is man-made it is not the responsibility of this office hand it off to someone else this office's only job is to investigate the unidentified and non- manmade things like everything they did is in reaction to the Pentagon being like dragging their feet like oh we're not gonna do it and all of that leads up to the UAP disclosure act which is the latest Salvo in this at again attempting to nail everything down if you go read the UAP disclosure act a huge amount of it is just defining what are Technologies of unknown or what is nonh intelligence what is a UAP what is transmi travel like pinning these things down so the Pentagon can't weasle their way out of talking about them yeah yeah so I knew all of that but I didn't really grock how much work that end into it and there was one really delightful tidbit in this so when I started getting really into this stuff back in the day was around the time that uh two the Stars worked with the History Channel to make a show about L's efforts to investigate UAP it was a very well done show he specifically says uh Senator gillibrand and representative berett both watched that show on History Channel and were on board with talking about it because of the show so it's like okay this thing he did coming out of the Pentagon just trying to get the word out yo this stuff is real literally paid off he's like I you know seven years ago I would not have guessed we would be where we are today and every time I question did I do the right thing in resigning I look at the bills that we have gotten passed the progress we have made and I go yes absolutely I did the right thing yeah yeah I'm sure it's incredibly stressful but yeah um yeah sometimes you have to do that interesting yeah that it sounds like book yeah it sounds like a dense dense book and I see that there's like 27 Pages after this of other notes so my first attempt at notes yeah uh these are unorganized but yeah I I don't know man um you know those of you who are listening if there's any part of this that you're like particularly interested you know let us know uh comment on YouTube send us email Scott or Chuck at very exciting time.com if you're in the Discord uh you know give us a shout there I'm gonna be picking topics for this probably our next several episodes are going to be zeroing in on one particular part of the book and talking about it in more detail um right you know the only way I think we don't do that is if something more exciting happens you know like obviously something more exciting would take Focus from this but yeah man there's a lot of information here uh like I said at the very least I think we will do that inside baseball episode kind of the history of how Lou Alando came to run the Pentagon UFO program and how he came to leave it and Lobby Congress um that's good probably do an episode that's um less about the book and more about um all the people who have come out to support David gush's claims because you know kind of backing up to um what Matthew Pine said you know the effort from this point forward is about getting more and more people to confirm it and there's a surprising number of people who have backed the basic claim of an illegally hidden crash retrieval and reverse engineering program and we'll probably do an episode on the more weird side of it with uh you know the recovered bodies alien implants you know the the the biological side of it um I don't know let let us know if there's anything else that uh you you'd love to see more information about this I I I'm still laughing at me telling the Discord like no this is only gonna be one episode immediately overwhelmed yeah I feel like our Discord has frequently been very right and H honestly it's a delight to read all the stuff that that they talk about I learn a lot in there so yeah the discord's hopping yeah if you're not in there you know I encourage you to join it's free yeah um did did you put the uh the link on the website I know you were thinking about doing that yeah okay yeah go to our website um yeah well should we do our outro then yeah I think we probably should yeah were was there any uh question or any final thoughts you had on this I know it's a lot oh God I don't know it's this is like one of our longest episodes ever which is kind of wild um so uh and I did not drink enough caffeine right beforehand so I'm like running on empty I it just it sounds interesting um and I'm I'm excited to dig into some of the more uh some more details oh yeah yeah we have to do an episode on the warp bubble stuff yeah I know Chuck will be excited for that yeah yeah all right everyone thank you so much for joining us on it's a very exciting time you can find show notes and more on our website very exciting time.com as well as links to our Discord and social media accounts and feel free to email us at Scott or chuv exciting time.com and if you'd like to support the show please check out our patreon at patreon.com exciting time and Chuck as always my wife thanks you for listening to me talk about UFOs so she doesn't have to