Dr. Garry Nolan analyzes UAP whistleblower's injury claims | Reality Check

Transcript

good day and welcome to reality check before we start this week's show here's a little bit about our sponsor for this week Dr Steven gundry has this concept called caloric bypass he says the key to losing weight and keeping it off is not in carbs or fat or even in probiotic rich foods instead it comes down to a specific switch you can flip in your body to flush out unnecessary calories and by activating this specific process in our body he says he's seen thousands of people dramatically improved their health even at age 50 and Beyond Dr gundry has lost 70 pounds himself using his research and he's kept the weight off for over 20 years and counting his digestive issues are gone his health is fantastic and he feels younger and healthier today than he did in his 40s his video has been watched by over 20 million people to date and you can watch and learn more about it at the healthy fat.com rros that's the healthy fat.com Rost it's linked at the bottom of this video and just click the healthy fat.com Ross now let's get on with the [Music] show professor Gary Nolan thank you so much for joining us can you firstly give me an idea of your credentials to talk about the injuries and the person that we're going to be talking about today so um I'm a PhD molecular immunologist uh in the department of pathology at Stanford University uh my background has been in uh developing Technologies to deeply understand how the immune system goes arai whether it's in autoimmunity or cancer and over the years we've developed a number of instruments and approaches that are now used around the world uh for doing exactly that you you've been involved before I know in special investigations into service personnel and intelligence Personnel who suffered injuries exposures of an anomalous nature what can you tell us about those investigations so those investigations started uh literally almost uh 12 years ago uh when representatives from the CIA and an aerospace Corporation showed up at my office here at Stanford uh and knocked on the door completely unexpected to me with no prior arrangement and said that they needed my help uh with a number of servicemen uh probably a few dozen at the time who had uh encountered uh everything from rashes uh headaches uh a number of other ailments uh as as well as in the rare cases uh claiming that they had seen some sort of anomalous objects the the long and the short of it was uh that after looking at the data that was provided to me by the people who came to my door on that day uh I realized that this was not a joke because you can't fake the kinds of uh MRIs uh and CAT scans that I had seen that showed clear and acute and now chronic damage I mean you can't have the kind of acute damage that was represented on those uh on the data that I was shown and not expect to have long-term consequences because of it so the reason they had come to me was because they wanted to understand uh the uh inflammatory processes that might have been occurring in the blood and my laboratory at the time and still today actually has the world's best uh devices for looking at inflammatory processes in the blood what we you able to conclude from that research well many of the events that uh were brought to me at the time uh had occurred so long ago that there was no residual Trace in the blood nor what what I have expected to see that but in follow-ups with a number of the individuals including one of the people about whom we'll talk today uh again there is no possibility of not having long-term consequences that are inclusive of autoimmune disorders and so in the rare individuals that I was able to follow up with over time they also had these same kinds of long-term consequences so you have an acute injury of some kind that ends up being a long-term uh downside for you Professor what can you tell me about the specific nature of the kind of injuries you were seeing back then when you started doing this research for the CIA so uh whole body sclerosis meaning patches of redness Across the Skin uh disas uh of the blood at the time we're seeing meaning uh in some of those individuals um uh long-term apparent imbalances in the numbers of uh cell types that you should expect to see in the white blood cells we weren't able to go into gory detail about it again given the long-term nature of this uh but um you know certainly almost a form of PTSD not only because of the events as they had occurred but the lack of follow through by the Department of Defense and the Veterans Administration for their long-term care um actually and interestingly leading to now a a um document that's been put out by the uh government on anomalous Health incidents that covers in an umbrella sense a lot of these kinds of disorders one of the cases I've investigated and I know you've taken an interest in the subject as well is the rendam case of 1980 and it's public information that a man called John barrows was exposed to some kind of an injury allegedly as a result of his exposure to an anomalous object in that event are you able to talk at all about anything that you know about that casaste um you know I really shouldn't because uh it does although some it's it's Hipp aprotected I am aware of things behind the scenes related to John that uh you know anything I could say probably touches on hippo related knowledge I mean what is though public and I can talk about is that uh John McCain Senator McCain was able to overcome a block that the Department of Defense had initiated on Jon's medical records and because that block was in place Jon was unable to get the Veterans Administration to agree that he should be insured for the kinds of ailments that he was claiming um because of the intervention of some individuals uh through uh Harry sorry through uh John McCain uh they were able to overcome the block to the VA release his medical report that which was sealed uh and that allowed him to get the care that he needed and that probably saved his life is it a causation or a correlation are you able to say definitively that anomalous events possibly involving uaps perhaps non-human technology of some kind have they caused injuries or is there merely a correlation of injuries that you've seen I've seen unfortunately no direct causation I've seen situations where people have come to me and said the following occurred uh and here are the medical uh events that I didn't have prior to this occurrence so all I all I have are stories that other people come to me with that are what you would call Secondhand stories um but I have seen the damage and I can't explain what it is that the damage what would have actually caused such damage absent some kind of radiation so that was my next question is is what you're seeing in some cases consistent with exposure to damaging gamma radiation uh well there's all kinds of ionizing radiation gamma amongst them uh so any kind of I mean enough heat on you is which is a kind of radiation uh it's just a different frequency would cause um different kinds of damage it's the it's the damage inside of the body that you're most worried about I mean there's surface damage of course let's talk about Jake Barber you've had an opportunity haven't you to meet Jake and essentially take a a history from him uh we're talking about his condition with his permission so heppa is not an issue here but obviously we're respectful of his privacy um what can you tell us about what he exposed to well I've looked at all of uh Jake's medical reports going back to practically I think 1998 uh 2000 uh and I think he was 21 or 23 or so at the time um and the acute uh injuries were obviously severe uh including uh aemma all the way down the arm slopping off of skin from the arm uh long-term damage I mean the the the report reads like a bit of a horror show to be quite honest um and uh I I wouldn't say that his Physicians were not responsive to the need but what I saw throughout was uh a confusion on the part of the Physicians as to what could possibly cause this I mean they can drop it into a set of symptom ologies of but they can't explain why under one particular uh causation you would get all of these things absent to me what the first thing that came to mind was you were exposed to some kind of radiation and so I uh especially since I only came to know Jake in the last year or so my uh strong recommendation to him at the time was we need to get uh a full workup of what it is how it stands now because if this was radiation I mean one of the obvious consequences of radiation especially something which would cause this kind of systemic effect is cancer and so you need a baseline whole body MRI done so that maybe you don't have something now uh but that you know the best thing in cancer is that you can see a change that has occurred over time so let's get that done um and I saw had him seen by one of the world's best rheumat ologists uh to make sure that we had the blood drawn from him not just as a standard uh um white blood cell count and things like that but to be able to do a full-on rheumatologic test for the kinds of co-factors and things that I know can be done with modern uh modern tests today that probably weren't well I know weren't done uh back in the day do you think the secrecy surrounded the kind of operations that Jake did as a tier one operator do you think the secrecy confounded the proper medical treatment that he should have received despite the perhaps good intentions of his doctors I actually it's a great question I would have to talk to Jake to see whether or not he was ever denied anything but certainly he wasn't given the kinds of advice that he should have been given I would say because the what the advice that I gave him was here are the XYZ things that you need to have done for you and here are the kinds of people that you need to see so had the VA been on their toes and had the VA let's say because of the kinds of um situations uh and deployments that Jake was uh put into uh you know and the kinds of complaints that he came back to any manager uh who had even uh an inkling of empathy or forethought would have said hey uh here's what we need to go have done for you XYZ and especially as I understand it uh a number of his uh um co-workers in the deployments that he was in uh had similar problems so you're not dealing with a one off who went home and somehow uh came in contact with something in the house but you have uh four or five individuals all at once coming down with the same thing uh within a week or so after deployment uh that's more than a coincidence so can I just clarify here Professor you've been able to look at all of Jake's full military medical records uh and you've been able to satisfy yourself as to the level of essentially what what's described about what he suffered what do the records show about the purported injury that he suffered well the well first of all having to trying to read some of the doctor scribbling was hard enough but um the uh you know it was it was very clear that there were acute injuries to the arm and uh the legs uh sorry the arms and the hands so here are some of the Consolidated findings one of them uh that I know he deals with even to this day is uh alopecia a form something called migratory alpia hair loss that moves from one area of the body to the other and that's consistent with a kind of autoimmune reaction which is that the immune system takes care of something once or you get some sort of local injury and on one day or one week and then that initiates an immune reaction uh in one place or another uh another is a vascular rash so uh skin eruptions which are characterized by small blister filling things again a kind of autoimmunity but it's not an autoimmunity that you get with you know when you have have when you have um one kind of autoimmunity usually doesn't come and show up as five different kinds of autoimmunities here are some other ones uh and this is related in in fact to it a form of uh infection with the yeast candida uh candida albicans and so you get something called candidas chronic mucco Tinus candidasis uh and that's a form of yeast infection and what's interesting about that is that basically means at least one of two things one is that you have either underlying immune disorder that's occurring uh which is allowing for the for the candida to grow on the skin or you have some kind of disruption in the dermal apparatus and dermal protection which means that you've had some sort of autoimmune reaction which allows for the skin to be broken the candida lands it's in our environment grows that forms and causes further WRA es Etc and that sets up um sort of you you you start with a brush fire and soon it becomes a fullon forest fire that's one of them um and it looks like uh a general autoimmune uh dis disease arithmos uh maculopapular dry lesions on the hands and feet all of these things adding up to a disrupted immune system that's been set off kilter and is unable to write itself again again uh and so the only kinds of things that uh cause that are either uh intense exposure to toxins of one kind or another an intense infection at one point in one's life that can set these kinds of things off uh or some kind of um consequential exposure to uh radiation of some kind so that's what you've been able to aduce from the medical records you've done a whole series of tests now and you've obviously over this rat I I I haven't done any tests um tests have been done but they have not provided him uh the results yet so you believe that one of the plausible explanations for why Jake has the injuries that he's clearly suffered is that potentially he's been exposed to some kind of severe radiation yeah I mean that's the easiest uh reach for this now there's ways to test for that there might be ways to test for um in the skin uh an excess of uh mutation uh in the skin now interestingly um one of the things that uh Jake has although it could be just due to intense sun exposure is um what are called atypical compound neas uh and those are these uh irregularly shaped brown spots that very often Caucasian have and you're more likely to find them in people of uh Irish or Celtic descent but um a typical compound neas is a form of re of it's a result of exposure to damaging radiation of one kind or another one of the anomalies if you like about Jake's story is officially in his DD214 he's only described as an aircraft me but it's clear from his service record and and the Fuller extent of the details of his service that we've been able to obtain from the documents and also from some of his fellow colleagues he was clearly operating as an elite tier one operator in a very covert role with the US government is that your impression as well yes um my interactions with Jake uh over the last year including uh visiting him at a let's call it a work site uh clearly indicated to me that Jake's uh not just a helicopter operator he's he's he's not a taxi uh that's for sure um and his level of knowledge and the things that he was able to uh talk to me about that were not uh releasing or Pro providing any information he wasn't supposed to provide but the people with whom he surrounded himself uh and their level of activity and action uh was they're not just a conveyor of somebody's Goods that they are deeply knowledgeable about this subject matter and it actually for me watching and listening to the kinds of things that uh they did the the level of sophistication of things that are going on behind the scenes was uh eye opening to me let's talk about in a limited way what you personally witnessed um there was a summoning there was a psionic operator brought to a location we won't stipulate where what did you see well I I saw two things one I saw uh an individual who claimed the ability to me which is even to me is almost unbelievable to hear that somebody claims to have that kind of um capability um but we also had somebody with us who was uh using uh electromagnetic uh summoning if you will uh basically putting out um radio frequency that might or might not be attractive to alleged Craft um I personally didn't see anything in the sky or on the ground but what I did see was an individual uh who in the midst of attempting to um call such an object which again to anybody listening in my science colleagues who might hear me say this was just it was just I I I don't even believe that I'm sitting here seeing this exactly at the moment uh that he said he was uh interacting with something uh the individual on the roof who had the cameras saw something now they didn't know nor were they in contact with each other but we could hear uh a commotion on the roof uh when everything was over and we had uh caled down the individual who uh said that he had had some issues and in the process of this summoning um and we made sure that medically he was okay uh because on the team we actually did have somebody who was medically trained uh when we reviewed what it was that the person on the roof had seen both by drawing and by videography uh something showed up uh I mean it was fleeting uh but it was clearly not a bug and so uh what do I have I have a person who claims to be doing something uh it was clear that he was in distress at the moment of the uh supposed interaction and at that moment something is seen what do you have you have a COR you have a correlation you don't have a causation um and so that's that's it but I was there not to provide any conclusions I was there to make sure that everything that was being done was being done in a scientifically accurate way as dis passionately as possible uh and to be part of the uh of the advisor team to make sure that this was done in a way that at some point if it ever wanted to be put together into a scientific paper we had collected the kind of metadata required uh to say well we might not have a conclusion but here is at least a story that tells us um that the data which we're providing to perhaps some future event might be looked back to and said oh well what happened there worked that didn't work so let's try this again so that we can perhaps make it repeatable so Professor on the evidence you've seen do you find it plausible that the US government is using psionic psychic operators to attract UAP nhi craft I can only only say what I what I saw there was somebody who claimed to be interacting with something um do I think it's possible ah you know we're already uh working in the world of the Elon musks who are putting devices into people's brains to be able to talk directly to brains I have no problem imagining a technology a thousand years from now where even humans can interact with each other in some sort of pseudo pionic manner I I don't know what it is that uh might be required to interact with a non-human intelligence but what I can say is that the area within which we were working uh was uh absent of any possible overfly from commercial Jets because it was a mandated area where nothing such could occur so what it was that we saw wasn't a flyover it certainly wasn't a bug uh so we can get rid of all of those um opportunities but the fact that the group with whom we were working were able to openly operate in this area because they had openly operated in this kind of area before uh and knew how to do it tells me that there's a process in place for individuals of this type to access where they're freely allowed to uh do what they're what they're doing I think we can expect uh as has happened in the past that there may be attempt to disinform the public about Jake Barber what are you able to tell me about your impressions of the authenticity and the honesty of Jake Barber as a result of your interactions with him oh I worked with him directly for a week and anybody who who thinks that he's other than what he presents himself as uh just should get out of the way um there's no reason to think of him as anything other than an honest broker at every level ethical to the nth degree empathic to a degree that I wouldn't frankly bizarrely expect as an academic elitist uh from somebody in a military capacity as such as he is far more human than many of the scientists with whom I have to interact every day these men and we've interviewed Jake and his colleagues including the men who was on the roof with the cameras um these men have been profoundly haven't they by what they've witnessed yes and again you have individuals whose daily job is to protect the United States I mean that's their day job that's what their day job has been for the last many years uh and anybody who who thinks that these are not professionals uh who uh have something to say and are in I think the most scientifically accurate sense they've seen something anomalous they recognize it as being out of place they're willing to put their lives their families their jobs their reputations on the line to point out to others that this is something that should be paid attention to I mean that's just the very nature of forward movement uh and that anybody scientists or government or anybody would try to disinform or stigmatize that just is it's to me it's just it's a level of vess and disreputable behavior that I just don't I don't understand how anybody could do it and say that just because it's my job to do it that I should do it they should just anybody who who who that's their job they should resign let's be very clear about this sir Jake Barber and his colleagues allege that they have been party to an operation involving the luring of and shooting down of and retrieval of nonhuman technology alien spacecraft do you find their accounts plausible I sat at dinner several evenings uh over beers and otherwise while we were uh partaking in this operation and I heard nothing that would tell me that what they were telling me was not true it all seemed to fit together in a way that in some of the details that I I I don't I don't know what was relayed but some of the details were so astounding to me I found I felt like I was sitting in a science fiction movie until I thought to myself well if some of these observations are true that people are claiming to see or involve themselves with what would you need to construct behind the scenes that is that sensibly even in a science fiction setting make sense of all of this and what I heard was at least a story that tied it together but the story that tied it together involved a level of government complicity and medical complicity from individuals who how could you possibly subject some of these individuals and I saw some of the medical reports again of other individuals who were part of these teams like how could you be complicit in doing this to some of these individuals and signing off on it I mean your name is right there we know who you are and you're still doing what you were doing before it just astounds me uh that uh it's the the the records are are as clear as day it's not some of these especially the medical records are not hey someone's telling me something the medical records are there and they're the same kinds of medical records that I got uh when the CIA showed up in my office and it's that level of detail all you can say is somebody isn't doing their job so professor as Jake Barber describes it he and his colleagues were asked to escort what he describes as a very large box on a on a flight which brought this object whatever it was inside the box back to the continental United States they were never told what was in the box but he got very very sick he and his colleagues in the days following their exposure their close proximity to that box now are you able to say are you able to make any kind of a conclusion at all about the nature of the radiation that they received was it anomalous or were are you able to reach any conclusion about the um perhaps what might be the cause of that radiation well I mean what you can say at the least is that there was a form of penetrative radi radiation because it was more than just skin damage some of the apparent damage uh went Skin Deep right or went deeper into the bodies um now I haven't seen any MRIs from these individuals to look for the scarring but the um the kinds of effects such as the whole body depilation loss of hair um and not just on the side of the body that you're sitting next to it on the on the helicopter or plane um but that its whole body means that it probably penetrated through the body right so you're you've got it with your back to you you got it in the front but your your eyebrows uh the hair falls out Etc so penetrative generally means gamma uh you know or very high level radiation um it's not just something like alpha or low low energy so I I can't say what was in the Box obviously it could have been from a a nuclear powered airplane for all I know uh it doesn't matter uh some sort of test vehicle um but that they were not made aware of what was going to be in the box that's sounds unethical that you're told to go pick up something which is known to be radiative uh that's to me problematic now from the previous and unrelated work that you've done with the CIA you've you've examined military service Personnel who've been exposed to what sounds like anomalous phenomena uh including potentially directed energy weapons of some kind what you're seeing with Jake are similar types of injuries correct right so over the hundred so individuals that we looked at um they had a panoply of different symptoms uh the majority of those patients uh 85 to 90% of them of the literally 100 that we looked at um it was pretty clear that they had symptomologies that were so similar to Havana syndrome as it would be uh easy enough to say these are Havana syndrome now Havana syndrome is actually a syndrome in medical terminal technology is a set of symptoms it's not like a disease like covid causes disease Ebola causes a disease and you have a specific uh set of expected outcomes in both those cases some of those outcomes could be death um in a symptom or a syndrome I should say it's usually you have about 20 or so different symptoms which you have to have let's say 15 of those symptoms to be classified under the syndrome uh so some of the individuals even those that we said were Havana syndrome had sclerosis on their skin so they there some whatever the radiation was that's being was being used caused radi caused uh damage to the skin other would get headaches now that makes perfect sense because if over the course of 20 years whoever was using these directed energy weapons uh developed better and better versions of it you would expect that the damage that it causes over those decades would be different no problem there um but when you have now uh a situation such as a radiation such as what uh Jake Barber was uh exposed to it would fall under some of the symptoms uh of um of uh Havana syndrome but would have in this case especially long-term 20 plus year consequences of a disrupted immune system that has uh really basically I'm surpris he can he can function as well as he does day to day what do you think of the ethics of the decisions made by the people who obviously made the orders to send people like Jake into these operations what do you think of the ethics of the people Behind These operations in deploying young men and indeed young women into situ situations where they have been exposed to dangerous levels of radiation you know I mean I I understand that in the military uh tough choices have to be made and if the uh and you sign up for a certain level of of danger all the way up to an including death so um on all sides I I honor what they what they've done but I also think that there's an ethics of Do no harm uh when you don't have to and so in a situation where you could you know unless there was some desperate need to get to it before somebody else did or put other people under Harm's In Harm's Way uh to at the very least send them with the kinds of protective gear that they could have had to prevent what did happen uh is sounds either unethical or an administrative oversight uh that needs investigation by Congress because we shouldn't be putting uh people like like this under such circumstances so Gary I know that you've I know that you've taken an interest previously case which was the Raph bentwaters case at a British Airbase which the Americans were also occupying in around 1980 and there were a number of military personnel who reported coming into contact with what they say was a craft of some kind acting anomalously in the rosam Forest adjacent to a military base that we know carried nuclear weapons for the American Military and one of the Personnel that was close up to the craft in fact probably one of the closest was an Airman named John Barrow and I'm aware that John Barrow's medical reports were at one stage withheld by the American government uh and they were declined to be provided to him so that he could get the treatment that he needed from Veteran Affairs the VA what do you know about that case well certainly everything you said uh that you just told me there I know about I mean I was working with individuals behind the scenes to try to get the relevant information uh to John McCain so that we could get his uh medical records Declassified they were classified they just weren't withheld they were classified um and what was happening was that uh Mr burough could not get the medical attention he needed because the insurance services in the VA wouldn't uh allow for it so again you have a you have a situation where someone has been uh so let's say that whatever it was that was at um uh at that site was a US military test object why would you put your in your military service People In Harm's way first of all uh maybe they didn't know what the danger was either the people putting him In Harm's Way or not but then why would you subsequently feel that the issue was so important as to not uh allow for that person's medical records to be released what are you hiding what's being hidden here when it turned out that it required a senator in the US to directly demand to the Department of Defense release it or will it really does big the question professor doesn't it is the reason for the continuing non-disclosure about a non-human intelligence that's allegedly engaging with is it really for the high-minded reasons that are often cited privately by The Gatekeepers or is it perhaps because they're worried about being held to account for the allegedly unethical and potentially illegal if not criminal things that we're talking about today yeah I mean that to me is when I'm asked what is it that uh might be the reasons for things being hidden I don't think it's because the populace is going to go running screaming into the streets worried about you know non-human intelligence I think they're really still as we see today worried about what puts Foods on the on the table um I think you're right one of the main reasons certainly could be we don't want this information out because I'm going to get in trouble someone's going to get in trouble for or something unethical where's the paperwork that these people are filling out to make sure that the people that they're responsible to and for are being taken care of the way that they should and certainly when it comes to the long-term consequences of of human health uh and then the health of their children I mean God if you were putting a serviceman in a radiative position they should be worried about what kind of things are happening to their children because they're going to have children you know and and that's it's mindblowing to me that somebody would try to hide this and not counsel uh the servicemen as to the dangers not only to themselves but also to the children that they might have one day so Professor clearly there is an allegation that I personally find highly confronting and incredible at the heart of the claims being made made by Jake and his colleagues the allegation is that the United States government is secretly colluding with private corporations using what I called public operators people with purported psychic abilities what do you think of these allegations well if they're true it's probably one of the most extraordinary things I've ever heard um I don't know anything other than what I heard sitting across the table uh from the individual individuals claiming to be involved in this process and claiming what their history has been with the uh US Government going back to their childhood I mean it's just I I don't know what to think it it it it's extraordinary I mean the only place I can relate it to my own work is where I've been looking at the Cod came in um and the connections there where we did see in let's call them high functioning individuals mostly very intelligent individuals uh that this was the heart of where intuition happens and we came to that conclusion independently of what was happening in the rest of the world where simultaneous analyses by mainstream scientists had come to the conclusion that we did that day because of the work that we were doing with the with those uh patients that this is the area where intuition happens well what's another word for remote viewing or Clairvoyance or whatever you want to call it in a purely scientific sense somebody with darn good intuition so as I've said before uh you know if you wanted to know where such an ability might exist might allege to be existing uh that would be the heart of it in the cod8 patment and what we found found inter interestingly is that people with who had claimed High function in remote viewing were at the highest of the list of those who had this connectivity pattern so there's something interesting there again I don't have a conclusion as to what it is but there's enough data there for me to say it's well worth looking into uh and how could we perhaps turn this function on wouldn't you like to be able to predict which way the dice might roll and the fascinating thing to me is that whilst you have one section of the US military denying that there is such a thing as psychic phenomena and telepathy it's the cia's own records that there's been a continuing investigation into the phenomenon since the 1970s Stargate program that Hal put off played a role in at SRI that they've never really stopped investigating the phenomenon of Ed psychic Behavior well it continued uh into um the 80s and 90s in uh military programs uh that were eventually at one point called the spidey sense program where what they were doing was they were identifying uh people in squads who the rest of the squad member said hey when Joe says don't go that way we should go that way the people that they trusted now maybe they were picking up something I mean a skeptic and I'm a skeptic they pick up something in the in the atmosphere that says don't go that way it just it feels wrong and we go this way so people who are Survival survivalists by virtue of just good guesses but you know there's something to be said for the you know the primate that knows not to go down this path because there's a Jaguar down that path and you go down this path because it's safe uh and you pick up something else that is in The Ether and by that I mean something that isn't what you would call a natural electromagnetic interaction but there might be something else going on at another level uh that the human brain is capable of uh understanding and manifesting into thought I'm perfectly fine with that until you can take it off the table as an option to say that all interactions are electromagnetic then uh it's a possibility I mean we don't know how two objects at a distance in Quantum interaction somehow communicate you know and that and that that puzzles the world's best physicists to this day and they call it quantum non-locality well what the heck does that mean you know it can mean a lot of stuff but what it means is as far as most people are concerned it's some form of interaction at a distance without electromagnetic interaction so that's really all you're talking about when you say psionics so you know I I don't know I can imagine a lot of real world ways it could be done without without uh you know being dependent upon something that other people would call woo or magic I'm perfectly fine with something uh uh let's call it psionics something s based that is just a form of communication and and physics that we don't quite yet understand maybe there's a way to interact with Quantum interaction at a distance that somebody else has mastered and we haven't yet but they're perfectly able to either use it to transmit or receive there is coming isn't there Professor for what has been done inside what we Loosely call the program there are people who are going to have to be held to account for their decisions and their actions I hope so perhaps the new Administration incoming uh will feel that there's a level of transparency that can be brought to this uh um issue in a way that prior administrations couldn't uh I've certainly heard a lot of rumors and talk about it uh from the incoming uh members uh of the new Administration so uh I'm fully supportive of that if they decide to do so because I'd like to go back to my day job I'd like to go back to my day job you know um you know the my my day job is cancer research if there's nothing here I'm pretty good at my job let me get back to it Professor I appreciate you are a top level International scientist and you understandably will be skeptical and guarded in what you're prepared to say but I've interviewed you previously and you've been very forthcoming about your belief that or your knowledge that there is indeed a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet about here though from Jake Barber and his colleagues is on another level entirely for the first time firstand witnesses to what we say is a retrieval program involving a non-human intelligence technology tell me what you think about the credibility of these Witnesses and what are your impressions about the whole idea of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet when we still are in a situation where the military the Pentagon is flatly asserting that there is no evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial intelligence engaging with this planet so everybody that I've interacted with around this particular I incident has been they're either the best actors in the world and are all deserving of an Oscar next year or what they're telling me is uh the truth I'm a good read of body language and personalities and uh what I saw the way in which they acted they didn't just act as people as a part in a play they acted in a way that showed that they'd done this before um and so that told me that they knew what they were doing they weren't doing this for the first time you know they don't bring a Stanford Professor to a secure site to witness this uh so that uh that you know there wasn't all of this effort put into it just for me I was just there for observation um there's no reason to expect that anything that they were doing uh was a lie or or put on for show um it just lends further support to things that I've already said before uh that the chance that all of this is by chance uh or is just a whole bunch of mistakes is diminishingly small it's to the point now where it's up to the true Skeptics to come forward and say what are the standards that you're going to require for there to be proof does an alien or an extraterrestrial or a non-human intelligence have to walk out on stage and shake their hands is that your standard of proof or is your standard of proof that of a scientist which says I see preliminary data here and something which is even more than preliminary data that says hey it's time to put together uh a public response and a public program that allows the public to know what the data is rather than putting all the money into things that are going on clearly behind the scenes that you're just going to basically black out uh when when any reports are being provided I I think those days are over can I get a definitive statement from you Gary on what you think you know about the existence of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet my personal experience both with people and the things that I've seen is that there's something here my problem is again as a scientist that's my set of anecdotes I need to get it into a form that I can hand to an another scientist who sits in the office next to me and said here's the data that you can use there's so much data it out there already that it's how do I compile a minimum list so that I can get a colleagues attention for the five minutes required to get them to say either it should be something that they follow up on or they're they can still go back to their day job I I I mean I'm you're trying to get me to say something that I just am not going to go over that line because I if I don't maintain a certain level of skepticism I just lose the credibility that I require for my scientific colleagues to feel that I'm uh a uh a neutral Observer I thank you for what you did give me Professor thank you so much yeah thanks for watching go to join nn.com to find newsnation on your television provider and please don't forget to click that red subscribe button to ensure you get more of news nation's unbiased and fact-driven news coverage