Professor Garry Nolan & Ross Coulthart: Full interview | UFO UAP News

Transcript

[Music] okay you're going to photoshop this  make me look like Chris Hemsworth at the end right Professor Garry Nolan is one of those  precocious Minds that when you meet them you   know you're in the presence of awesome incredible  intelligence he's a Stanford university-based   professor of Immunology uh at the moment he's a  nominee for the Nobel Prize he's one of the most   reputable immunologists on the planet extremely 

well regarded he's got multiple patents huge   numbers of papers that have been published in  his name he's got two companies listed on the   NASDAQ because of successful inventions that  he's made he's just all around a complete total   overachiever and one of the things that I loved in  meeting him was his cander the fact that he was so   prepared he's very fast becoming one of the public  faces of UFO UAP commentary he's decided to take   a very public profile because he's actually an 

experiencer himself so when I asked him about the   significance of the US government's admissions  that have been made about uaps in the last 12   months I was quite shocked and surprised at what  he told me set to go Prof so what do we know for   sure about uaps well I think the thing that we  know for sure is that we don't know what it is but   we do know that there is something here something  that I think defies explanation but that something   can be studied from a scientific Viewpoint 

there's a genuine mystery yes how significant   is it that the United States government came out  a year ago and admitted the unidentified aerial   phenomena are real whatever they are they're a  real mystery I think it tells us that uh first   of all the government has been lying to us for  the last 60 or 70 years I think it gives Solace   to people who have been told that they were crazy  to have been believing or seeing this so that to   me at least from the personal point of view from 

the human point of view that's one of the most   important things I know this is speculative but  why do you think the US government's lied I think   it's because frankly they didn't understand what  it was and nobody wanted to admit that first of   all but second they didn't want to admit that  they didn't have control over our airspace we   didn't have control over our own airspace so  it's as simple as say for example the US Air   Force doesn't like admitting that whatever these 

objects are they're vastly Superior to what you've   got and frankly they don't know how to explain  them yes and what confuses me is if I were the   Air Force and I saw something like this I would  want to drive one of them right if I was a fighter   pilot who wanted to be in the fanciest best next  fighter jet why wouldn't I want to understand and   push to understand how objects like this could  maneuver that's what Dave frus said he said he   wanted to fly the T yes yes that's right so the 

government's been lying but do you think there's   been a cover up absolutely I mean there has been  both uh a coverup as well as a disinformation   campaign to make make people look like they are  were crazy see this is amazing to me to hear a   scientist of your reputation saying this I mean  you're one of the most eminent immunologists on   the planet you're a Nobel Prize nominee you you're  somebody highly respected in your area of medicine   is it a dangerous thing for you to admit that you 

think these things about the phenomen I think it's   dangerously necessary I think that this is  the kind of thing that if we we continue to   ignore it if we continue to ignore the potential  danger of what it might represent we are putting   ourselves uh at risk uh both to what it might do  to us in sometime in the future but then ignoring   the physics of what these things are capable of  doing let's talk about it MH what is it you know I   wish I knew and of all the people that I've spoken 

with on the inside there's uh really very little   unanimity about what it is except for that there  whatever it is appears to be so far Advanced from   us that it Beggars understanding so you don't  think it's human I'm sure it's not human is it   intelligent yes it certainly acts it and in some  cases it seems to have a sense of humor so Garry   the implications of what you're saying there  are enormous aren't they you're suggesting that   there is a highly Advanced civilization that is 

intelligent it's not human and it's real yeah I   almost hesitate even to call it a civilization a  civilization implies a lot of interacting parts   uh that are moving toward some sort of goal  I couldn't even say whether or not what it is   that is being observed is something like that now  the classic explanation for years and the reason   everybody Giggles is because they're immediately  thinking of Little Green Men from Zeta reticuli do   you think the the highest probability is that 

whatever they are they are extraterrestrial   I don't think so no I think it's whatever it is  it's been here a long time so and certainly it's   been here longer than we've been civilized so at  the very least who really owns the planet who was   here first uh I'm not sure it was us now you're  good mates with Lou alzando Who we've interviewed   who was the former head of the Pentagon UFO  program and Lou has suggested publicly that what   whatever this is the Extraterrestrial explanation 

doesn't quite explain it yeah I mean and I mean   it it could explain it but you could equally and  this is jacqu Val's original uh hypothesis that   he got in a lot of trouble decades ago over the  interdimensional hypothesis right that whatever   this is if you imagine an expanded universe  conceptually the Multiverse that everybody you   know talks about uh is could be just as easily  coming from over there as it is from the other   side of our own Universe now you're a scientist 

you deal in data a lot of people watching this   are going to be incredibly skeptical they're  going to be saying what does he know where's   the evidence where's the data to prove what you  say so the the data frankly is in the videos   first of all that we've all seen Now by now and  if you haven't seen them I'd go look up the nimit   UFO encounter uh videos the other evid evidence is  in the thousands of reports of things that people   have seen uh now that to me you know you can call 

it anecdotal but to me I call it preliminary data   it basically raises the question of what is it  and what can we do about it uh or what how can   we study it and so perhaps the best evidence that  is thought to exist is the stuff that is being   held in government hands that many people again  anecdotally anecdotally have come forward and said   this exists and it's not from here now the thing I  find fascinating is you've been kind of embraced a   little bit by the Black World you've had the CIA 

come knocking on your door asking you to actually   do tests on people who have been exposed to uaps  correct yes what can you tell me about that well   the reason apparently that they came to me is  because we had developed instrumentation for   blood analysis that uh nobody else in the world  had and so they came to me for that not because   I had some prior interest in UFOs they came to  me for that and then I guess the embracing came   because most of the other scientists with whom 

they had met ran away and I was you know just   drawn towards this but I also found it fascinating  to speculate about what all of this might mean and   what it might be so I got brought in further and  further so in your studies you would I understand   I've spoken to some people whom I suspect might  have been part of your study but there are pilots   for example who've engaged what they believe  were craft off the east coast of America and   they were exposed to what they think is some kind 

of radiation have you been able to determine if   any of these people have suffered injuries in some  cases not the pilots uh especially but uh for some   of the ground Personnel we were able to see damage  in their brain tissue uh that was considerable   so this is injuries suffered by people and is it  directly attributable to the UFO UAP they claim it   now again I'm uh many of the people viewing will  walk away saying that I said something happened   no I am relaying what it is that was told to 

me the confirmatory evidence that I have are   the MRIs that basically show that anybody could  look at repeatedly and see that there was damage   and when you say damage what sort of damage um it  you would call it a sclerosis it would be seen as   a scar tissue in the body or the brain dead tissue  so it comes out as white blob white blob white we   generally call it white matter disease now one  of the known examples of this that is public is   there's a fellow called Thomas Winterton who's 

featured on the Skinwalker Ranch TV show and he   allegedly was exposed to some kind of radiation  or energy and you could actually see on his MRI   MH a difference in his brain oh yeah well that  was a horrific event I mean uh not only was the   brain matter damaged but there was uh an edema  across the back of his head but I think in this   case this particular case this was probably more a  Havana syndrome like interaction where somebody uh   with an energy weapon pointed it at them and uh as 

has been I think also talked about on that TV show   we were able to determine the relative strength  of the energy based on how far into the brain it   traveled so the other thing that you've been roped  into is analyzing samples MH and there's one case   I'm fascinated which which is the Council Bluffs  Iowa Event in December 197 87 and tell me if I'm   wrong police and 11 different Witnesses from four  different groups came across a pile of molten slag   that they saw fall from a a craft of some kind 

a blinking craft a blinking craft it was still   bubbling and hot M the police testified to this as  well they were on the scene and everybody says it   came from this craft and I have the or Polaroids  from the police uh of the event uh and quite a bit   of Investigation was done back at the time on this  where they had looked at the metals and actually   it was beautifully um uh looked at because uh  they looked at all the possible uh normal ways   that this might have occurred thermite uh is there 

a nearby Foundry there was a nearby Foundry but   how do you get 4X six fet of slle right steaming  slle right you would had to have dragged it and   you certainly aren't going to put it in any kind  of balloon uh and then float it over a park and   then and then drop it cuz this was molten steel  mol molten metal I mean it was molten iron and   so one of the things that was looked at to see  whether or not it was steel it was not steel   it had iron in it nickel a few other impurities 

but what I found most interesting in our analysis   of it although we found nothing unusual about  isotopic ratios or elements that you wouldn't   normally find in in metals like was what we would  call the inhomogeneity of the material meaning it   was incompletely mixed so if you looked in  one part of the material you found all the   same elements but the ratios were different than  if you looked in another area the thing I find   fascinating about that case is you've got some 

kind of material metal being squirted belched   out by right a craft that is witnessed by many  people and it's not the only story like this   in fact there are multiple stories of these craft  dropping stuff in fact there's a case nearby that   when I get the time uh jacqu and I will visit  with exactly the same issue multiple times seen   in Fresno these objects and one of them apparently  dropped something right on these people's driveway   now I mean a lot of people might be chuckling here 

I mean why would a spacecraft let's assume it's   aliens or some kind of advanced civilization why  would they drop metal on a driveway well I I don't   know and I am just as equally bemused by the whole  thing and I can understand the skeptical nature   of everybody around but it is so let's imagine  let's say that for instance this was an object   of UFO or Etc and but maybe this is part of the  propulsion system and maybe when you're done with   enough of the propulsion or something has gone 

wrong some imbalance you essentially uh squirt it   out the back and offloaded it uh I mean it does  though lend itself to the question of well how   indifferent might this object or the thing running  it be to somebody below having a hot liquid metal   dropped on their head well could it just be that  ET has a sense of humor and loves the idea of   driving a scientist like you Betty with yes well  certainly there's certainly a little bit of that   I often wonder and jacqu and I talk about this 

sometimes this is jacqu Val jacqu Val how much of   what is being done is them just leading us around  by the nose for fun but continue to do it cuz I'm   having fun sure and the the third object that  I understand you've been involved in analyzing   is a sample of material which is known as the  Bismuth magnesium uh material MH have you been   able to reach any conclusions about that uh it  is a layered material of bismuth a little bit of   lead and uh magnesium uh I've looked at the ratios 

of the Isotopes there and there's nothing unusual   about it but um I will be getting a hold of a much  much larger sample of it uh that will allow me to   do some other kinds of tests now one of the things  that's been speculated about this particular piece   of bismuth magnesium is that if you put a wave  form through it m I know this sounds deffy it   will levitate I have uh heard of this result I  have not seen it with my own have you tried no   because the waveform that they needed that they 

needed to put through it is terahertz waves and   that was why Tom Delong to the Stars Academy did  the CR the research agreement with the US Army   because they're the only people that have got the  terahertz transmitter that you'd need right do we   know whether that research has been done there I'm  not allowed to talk about that aha this is getting   interesting yeah but the thing that fascinates  me about that is some of the material that to   the Stars Academy was saying that it was going to 

be researching was material that was provided to   it by the US government yes and if all this stuff  about uaps is rubbish why was the US government   keeping samples of flying sources and flying  discs I mean the only thing that I well first   you because of all of the disinformation that has  gone on over the years it's just like what you're   saying about the the aliens is somebody basically  wasting our time by throwing something out that   they know is irrelevant uh or just basically a 

hoax uh but that said there are many many now   stories of real materials that are on the inside  and my push and this is I think this is to to the   extent that people in the audience want want this  as a subject matter to go away is you want a you   want a definitive statement from the government  that the material does or does not exist if it   does exist then I don't even need for that to  be given to anybody in the public but you would   want a confirmatory statement that it does exist 

Lou alzando has said publicly as have others that   he believes the United States government is in  possession of exotic materials Dr Eric Davis whom   I know you know very eminent physicist has also  said that he believes that the US government has   recovered craft MH do you think that the United  States government is secretly holding technology   non-human technology I mean the best way I can put  it is that I can see no reason that any of these   people would lie especially Eric Davis uh and 

Lou and in let's say more private conversations   that I've had with them I've pressed them on the  issue because I've said you know look I'm putting   myself out there uh I am taking your word for it  uh and I'm putting myself out there and pushing   the notion that this needs to be studied so in  my heart it's more maybe it's more of a hope that   it exists because I'm excited about the potential  of what we can learn if it's true that the United   States government really does have a spacecraft 

an alien spacecraft of some kind tucked away in   a cave at Area 51 it means that while we may not  know how to operate it or how to reverse engineer   it we might have the secret of anti-gravity of  free energy yeah I mean so for the audience when   you look at an object that can move like this at  least two things are three things are occurring   ing one the objects can move and accelerate uh  to 5,000 mph instantly and decelerate okay so   whoever is in there didn't get squished and so 

therefore they have control over momentum uh as   well as gravity these things can hover so for me  the open question is uh okay what's the propulsion   Source because uh as a physicist another physicist  has published if you were to take an object assume   it's one ton of weight and you were to Move It  instantaneously from 50 feet to 14 miles into   space which there has been observations of this  the total energy required for that instantaneous   acceleration and deceleration is more than the 

nuclear output basically of the whole planet   for a year so okay and they're doing it apparently  every second and this is real it's happening it's   it is it is observed visually by individuals at  least the instantaneous disappearance of the thing   but then it is observed by radar and other uh  electronic means to be occurring it's interesting   because one of the most important bases that  America has for monitoring things in orbit and   things on the ground that might be signs of ICBM 

launches is Pine Gap in Australia right and there   are other bases like Northwest cape in Western  Australia that's been the location for some very   very weird paranormal phenomena giant Craft um  even military records recording observations of   spheres over the base M at times of acute deathcon  height heightening during the Middle East War the   Chinese are taking an interest in this very  sensitive Australian military base that is   actually used by America to contact its nuclear 

submarines in the event of nuclear war what do   you know about China's secret UFO program right  do you think they know do you think the Chinese   and the Russian know more than the Chinese have  admitted that they have a program to investigate   this openly they have admitted that do you think  they've recovered the same technology that the US   has I wouldn't be surprised I mean Brazil has  had events Italy has had events Russia has had   events don't think they're avoiding China there's 

a cold war going on behind the scenes isn't there   the Russians and the Chinese want to know what the  Americans know and the Russians want to know sorry   the Americans want to know what the Russians and  Chinese know right well it's a you know it's um   in in science you know when I have a competitor  that I'm having lunch with we're both probing   and trying to get the others information so we  can put together the answer first you explain to   me sir as a scientist if a country could Master 

the technology that lies behind this phenomenon   mhm how important is that technology well it's  I mean it's a game Cher obviously I mean but   it's also I mean individually a threat I mean so  if you have anti-gravity and and you give it to   everybody anybody could go out to the asteroid  belt and push something our way and cause a big   problem if you have access to the supposed levels  of energy that these things require to move around   everybody's got a bomb you know that is you know 

of dangerous levels of consequence so if if you're   asking questions why might the US government  want to limit knowledge of this they have a   perfectly good reason for doing so and that's  it that they realize that we're it's dangerous   to play with this but do you think part of the  issue now is that the game's up yes the Americans   know that it's too well known about now there's  been too many verifications of this phenomenon   to ignore itm yeah I mean I the short answer is 

yes that and the you know there's an avalanche of   information that's coming uh that we're seeing  it day by day right I mean we have as you know   the US government coming out and saying we now  are creating a an internal secret channel for   people to break their ndas and come forward and  give information to Congress they've publicly put   in the record now for funding to bring it says  exactly this cadres of scientists to the table   who can have classification to study this right 

so they're basically admitting we don't have the   answers but we want to bring scientists in now  I'm going to take a little bit of credit for   that because I actually wrote a white paper uh to  these internal groups that said exactly this that   we need to bring in scientists in a classified  manner to work on this so you don't think the   Americans have secretly cracked anti-gravity and  got a working spacecraft to a cave some I just   I I don't think so I but who knows I I if they 

have Kudos be pretty outrageous if they've kept   it quiet for this long well it yes it would be I  mean but I don't know I don't know what to say to   that I mean it's it's uh it'd be the Holy Grail  wouldn't it if signed Discover it would be well   I mean if they have cracked gravity it means they  have an understanding of gravity that we don't   even today have in our current physics we don't  even understand gravity today with all of the   equations that get thrown around by physicists so 

why isn't this more mainstream I mean why is this   still such a stigmatized issue why why is it that  in private company when one admits that one has   an interest in uaps unidentified aerial phenomena  there's normally somebody in the group who makes   a silly smirk and talks about Little Green Men  right why do we do that well I think years of   decades frankly of this kind of disinformation and  purposeful uh dimunition of people's opinions has   had its uh logical outcome but it's unjustified 

I think it's totally unjustified I mean and from   a scientific point of view and i' because I  of course have been approached by scientific   colleagues that said Garry you're going to ruin  your reputation with this and my immediate answer   is what scientist takes a possible explanation  off the table especially when you've got so many   people credible individuals saying that this is  something that's happening so why not investigate   it and anyway it's my time so why is it your 

business to tell me what I should be doing why   do you think there is such hostility to the idea  of investigating the possibility of non-human   intelligent life well that would put us not at  the top of the food chain first of all and from   a from a religious point of view it's a context uh  Clash that okay uh well if these things exist and   they're there where do they fit in the hierarchy  to angels and God if that's your religion let's   talk about that do you think that possibly 

what we're talking about here might be what   our religions describe as God uh or Angels and  Demons so that you know you need an explanation   for something so you put it into your whatever  your current mythology is because the suggestion   that's being made by a lot of people who claim  to have had experiences with the phenomenon is   that whoever they are this Superior intelligence  is tinkering with human DNA yeah I you know I've   had a lot of people come to me about the whole DNA 

thing and are they you know I I think there's a   lot more ways you can guide a species other than  Direct ly interacting with its DNA I mean look   at what we've done with dogs over just a few  tens of thousands of years can I ask you one   thing I read a Hungarian scientist's paper he's a  mathematician and he looked at the probabilities   of DNA sequences and he suggested that there are  anomalies in human DNA that suggests some kind   of intervention is this the wow signal paper okay 

yeah what's your take on that well mathematically   it's sound uh the only problem is that if you're  let's say if you're a reader of Richard Dawkins   and the selfish Gene and how complexity can arise  out of selection uh the counter to the mathematics   is that selection can create something which is  statistically low the the thing that I find most   interesting though about that the the wow signal  in the DNA code is how ordered it is in terms of   like if somebody were to sit down and say this 

is how I want to design something I'm going to   design it in a nicely ordered way it is strangely  ordered which the only way you can I think uh   countenance it is to say there's something about  the structure of life that required that order so   you either created the order because you designed  it or the structure of Life required it and that's   why it came out to be looking like somebody  made it because when you think about Christian   theology Islam a lot of the great religions all 

of it's about Superior beings coming from the   sky MH there's often as in Ezekiel in the Bible  descriptions of strange craft a lot of it does   sound like UFOs uaps well jacqu valet actually  took that uh approach in his book The wonders   in the sky where he went back literally uh into  the libraries to get the original documents from   the scientists and Statesmen of the day who had  recorded these events which if you basically just   changed the or translated the words they were 

basically had encountered UFOs at the time of   shields in the sky Etc and then Diana Pula on the  other side of things has looked at this um from   the standpoint what what got her interested was  she was actually originally studying the ecstasies   of the Saints she's a theologian of Catholicism  she was studying the ecstasies of the Saints and   very often their interaction with angels as they  said and but she found fascinating is that many   of these angels showed up as white orbs and then 

it kind of clicked in her head that this was the   same story of people who were seeing UFOs white  orbs that would come and interact with them so   here you have a religious tradition a couple  of thousand years old very well written where   we lawed people and turned them into Saints  for their interaction with orbs of light and   yet when you turn around and hear it from the  neighbor down the street uh they're ridiculous   how much of your position on the phenomenon has 

been informed by your own personal experience I   mean so I have I did see an object very close up  when I was a kid I didn't know what it was can   you tell me that story so I was a paper boy uh  this was in Connecticut Windsor Connecticut uh   and there was a man at the end of the of the one  of the streets uh who needed his paper by 5:30   in the morning uh and so I would always be there  so I knew about the time it was dark it was March   or so uh and I would deliver I delivered his 

paper and then there was basically a cops of   woods through which I had to walk to get to the  next street to walk the other way delivered the   papers there um and uh because it was March uh  there were no leaves on the trees and as I was   walking through the woods I could see my shadow in  front of me and the Shadows of the branches around   me which first kind of caught me off guard because  it I don't I didn't remember the Moon being out   but what was more I guess dramatic was that the 

Shadows began to move uh as they got as uh as I   was walking and they were moving as if the there  was a light behind me that was moving which caused   me to look up and see an object right at the  top of the trees go right over my head silently   Now sort of object it just was a kind of roundish  object with I remember kind of like four or five   whitish lights pointing down uh and but you know  I think I can't even remember how old I was 10 or   12 whatever whatever it was no I wasn't scared 

because I didn't know what it was and I didn't   immediately say in myself I mean this would have  been 1972 73 uh and uh I didn't say oh there was   a UFO because I didn't even know what a UFO was  and it really wasn't until about 20 years or so   later that as I paid attention as anybody does to  movies and things and UFOs and it kind of clicked   in my head I said wait what was was that what I  saw and so you know this is that story is like   the story of of many people and so I now look at 

that as let's I would call it again preliminary   evidence preliminary data said okay well that's  worth understanding and if other people are seeing   the same thing that that's a kind of confirmation  so why are these people being derided for just   reporting what they've seen because if it is  something else like that it should be it should   interest any scientist in my mind you have had  other experiences too haven't you yeah can you   talk about those you know this is probably the 

more unusual one and again it's I I'm hardly the   only individual to have had this is you wake up  as a as a young boy I would have been probably   six or seven cuz it was in our first house uh  that we my parents had bought in Windsor uh of   little men in the bedroom you know I mean uh I was  awake I knew they were there I could see them uh scared I can't remember being scared but  I remember telling my parents the next day   about it could it have been a dream it could 

have been a dream but when when so here's the   interesting thing I saw these little men in  the uh in the bedroom um and uh it went on   for I guess a few weeks and then it just stopped  um so I promptly forgot about it it did but but   what was what was critical was about 20 years  again later actually here in paloalto I was at   a used bookstore uh and I pulled out uh a book uh  and I'm pretty sure it was it was either John Max   or Whitley striber book communion communion and 

there on the front cover was and I can feel the   hair on my arms going up was what I saw that's the  classic gray I and I remember I dropped the book   because it was like whoa and it was uh it was a  revelation I guess as the but but then you know   but then I'm also I've I've read young right and  the collective unconscious and so you know part   of my uh self-explanation for what it was that I  was seeing was just some collective unconscious   genetic memory uh that we all have it has nothing 

to do with anything from outside so being a good   scientist you can't say it was ET can't absolutely  not yeah it made you think it made me think I mean   and you know I think being a scientist is all  about being willing to ask the difficult question   has that informed your willingness to look at the  possibility that the phenomenon is some kind of   life form absolutely I mean what could be more  interesting about studying life on this planet   uh and how our ecology has been constructed 

than to compare it to the Ecology of another   planet right two things are always more important  than one in science that if you can find a confir   a confirmation that life has started elsewhere it  means first of all that we're not unique and then   begs the question of of all of the other things  that we're seeing out there how many other places   has life originated so you had another experience  in London that I thought was quite important right   yeah that was an interesting one because you know 

for no good reason uh lying there in the bed in   the hotel I woke up with my entire body buzzing  uh uh like uh I was sitting in an electric water   bath uh and I've you know I've been in Japan for  instance where electric water baths are the kind   of the thing this was a very different experience  everything from the tip of my fingers down to the   tips of my toes ears I could feel this buzzing  um I could hear it but at the moment of waking   up there were and I don't even can't even call 

called them words there was a let's say there   was words in my head that said this is how you  connect whoa and it but it wasn't that wasn't   the word but that's the best translation of the  moment uh and after about 10 to 15 seconds of   this I just you know and this is why I don't  think it was physiologic necessarily uh some   sort of odd physiologic effect I I just said this  has to stop make it stop and it did that suggests   to me that the phenomenon's trying to engage with 

you I mean it it could be but again it's it's I   can't imagine why I would be so important that it  would take any time to do so can I ask you this   this there are scientists people in defense people  in intelligence in government that I've spoken to   in Australia who've all admitted to me they've  had weird I guess you could call them paranormal   experiences some of them are UAP some of them  involve entities such as what you're talking about   what's your advice to people like those I think 

the advices don't be ashamed first of all don't   feel that you need to come forward uh with it but  I think uh the advice is uh others have seen it   so you can believe that you're not crazy I think  that's the first thing to do but then take solace   in the fact that the US government and other  governments are now coming forward and saying that   well you know what this is real and it's worth  studying the one thing I've learned from reading   about quantum physics is that there's a hell of a 

lot of science that we still don't understand yeah   like Newtonian ideas of physics no longer really  have much application when you start talking about   the quantum World true yes absolutely well I  mean it for uh thousands of years even going   back to Plato uh you know we would think of the  atom uh as an object right we think of even up   until when I was a graduate stud I mean even  not a graduate student a student in college uh   we would think of them as solid forms but now we 

realize they're all waves and uh that a particle   doesn't exist in any one place it actually exists  in a superposition in many places at once now one   thing you've been doing is you've been looking at  the brains of experiences you've been using MRI   imaging right have you reached any conclusions  about whether people who've been exposed to   the phenomenon have characteristics so I kind of  turned the question around in a different way so   what we've done is looking at these individuals 

we found that there is a bundle of nerves at   the head of the CATE and paman in their basil  ganglia this is an important area of the brain   that has to do with sensory uh perceptions uh and  actually integration of that information for goal   seeking the executive function says I want to do  something it gets passed down to this area this   area says well what in my environment do I need  to access or know about to accomplish that goal   and then it creates a a set of goals sub goals 

to accomplish the the desired outcome um so uh   this area of the brain uh and especially this one  area at the head of the C inment had overdeveloped   interactions uh with this with compared to normals  there was a density of neuronal structure there   and is that a positive thing well it's a positive  thing in so far as the individuals that we were   working with would be considered high functioning  individuals right so these are all people who came   from the intelligence agencies they Pilots 

uh High LEL physicists uh you know basically   smart people and so from that standpoint it was  fascinating because that that said that um that   just the study of people who might have had these  interactions revealed something about the human   brain that people at the time didn't know but now  has been confirmed not only by us but by multiple   other Laboratories who have nothing to do with  paranormal aspects of this but have shown that   the CATE is involved in intuition and uh and um 

intelligence now why it's important is that is   intimately involved with perception and so if  perception is about seeing something that's in   front of you and not ignoring it then maybe you  have part of the solution why certain people see   something that others don't and we all know the  story the one of the gorilla walking across the   stage right so these people who are having these  experien with unidentified aerial phenomena they   actually have differences in their brain in some 

of the cases you've seen that might explain why   they're seeing them yeah that they're basically  smarter and they realize what's sitting in front   of them and they don't ignore it I mean that  doesn't mean that they're magic it just means   that they see something for what it is and so  that does I mean people have asked me well is   this area of the brain created by the interaction  no because in some of the individuals we actually   were able to go back and look at their MRIs 

10 years earlier and see that they still had   it they're born with it and what's fascinating  is it runs in families I was going to say have   you tested yourself yes yes my family has it we're  way up on the scale there's one physicist I know   who's like twice as much as so it's my my mother  my brother and my sister we all because the I mean   since I did the documentary last year and wrote  my book I've been Amazed by the number of people   who've told me that the phenomenon of citing these 

objects and having these weird experiences that   I suppose you could call them paranormal it runs  in the family yeah Mom had it Dad had it Granddad   had it yeah it's quite common isn't it yeah I  mean and so I would I wouldn't turn it into a a   movie script of some sort of magical ability it's  just if it's a feature of intelligence uh then uh   no surprise that it gets passed down family to  family but what I find fascinating is is almost   like it's it's a it's a dominant trait because 

um if it's a multigenic trait multiple genes all   coming together to enable a certain what we would  call phenotype um it would be much more disparate   and less likely to be passed within immediate  families but the most interesting thing is this   it's found in about one in 100 people on average  to one in 200 people in a group of about let's say   20 people we found two husband wife pairs both of  whom had it okay do the statistics if it's one in   100 to basically find the other person in that 

one in 100 randomly is 100 squared a thousand   right or 10,000 sorry um and so but to have two  people find it in the same group is an even bigger   statistical uh flaw or anomaly so what does that  mean it means that these people are either in a   limited breeding group right they all went to  the same school and they're smart or they're   somehow attracted to each other that's smart  people or attracted to other smart people so   what does that do uh from an A really fascinating 

evolutionary point of view this is what you would   call the beginnings of speciation so speciation  is when you have a uniform breeding population and   let's say a mountain range over time comes between  them they now are separated no longer in breeding   they go in their own directions so people who are  attracted to UFOs are attracted to each other in   a way yeah or capable of seeing let's just say  capable of seeing I wouldn't say that they're   attracted to UFOs I would say that they're that 

they're I I would just say in the simplest point   of view that this area of the brain which has  now been replicated in numbers of of studies the   cod8 especially uh and size and interactions  is related to intuition and intelligence are   smart people are attracted to other smart people  Garry the the one area that I've wrestled with as   a journalist in this field is dealing with people  who claim to have been abducted people who claim   experiences with humanoid entities right and my 

gut instinct is to immediately be dismissive to   say it's rubbish this can't possibly be true how  do we even begin to investigate claims like that   I you know I struggle with it as well you know  I hear hear these stories I know people who've   made these claims um the problem is that there is  no or rarely any residual evidence of the event   right and uh you know others have said well why  didn't they pick up a pen you know an alien pen   and bring it back I I I don't know but you have a 

psychological trauma of some sort that's occurred   you know again people would call it maybe a screen  memory uh for a traumatic event that was otherwise   best Earthly explained uh I don't know what to  do about it I I I really don't except just to   say that it's just more evidence on a pile that  needs to be understood which is why we were drawn   to the story of Jim from Texas okay Jim's a guy  who claims to have had abduction experiences ever   since he was a little boy he describes beings 

with big heads gray aliens coming through the   wall to to take him away mhm some of it sounds  Fantastical and then all of a sudden he tells   us he's got this sphere this object that he was  given by a friend that the friend saw fall from   a UFO a craft of some kind now we're not saying  let's be clear we're not saying that Jim's got   extraterrestrial technology or alien Tech but  what can we do do to objectively investigate   that as a scientist yourself well I have seen the 

videos that you've seen of this ball spontaneously   rolling around the floor and Jim has apparently  had this for 40 years and and so why would it move   what kinds of uh propulsion inside might we use  to conventionally explain it well you can imagine   some sort of movement winds up a spring you put  it on the ground uh and that is why it moves   around at some level but um why would anybody make  something like that and why would anybody expose   thems to public ridicule by claiming that that 

it's alien technology well the most interesting   thing about this story is and uh you know uh that  the the metal sphere story came to my attention   because of a gentleman in England had been  noticing in a lot of the pictures of claimed UFOs   that they were often you'd have the central object  and then there would be at least three or four of   these metal spheres uh that would be surrounding  and almost as if they were scouts or guards um   and it's fascinating because he could go back 30 

40 years and find this exact same phenomenon you   would have the central UFO and then you would have  three or four spheres around it so you could uh   claim that any individual picture was a UFO but  this story of the Spheres these objects really   didn't happen until recently so how did a hoaxer  multiple hoaxers know five decades ago to not   only put a UFO in the picture to put put four or  five spheres because I have never heard this story   before and I've read a lot you've heard of the 

bits spheres I've heard of them I don't know as   much about it as I need to there family in Florida  in the mid 1970s who found in a forest a metallic   ball slightly smaller than the one that we've  seen but nonetheless a solid metallic sphere MH   um it did the same sort of things that are being  described by Jim it moved around on its own accord   in the house and um uh became the subject of great  hilarity and Fascination by different media and   indeed the US US military got involved and at one 

stage they admitted that they couldn't explain it   I can't remember did they take it and return they  did the US Navy took it for testing and apparently   when it came back it didn't work anymore it didn't  work anymore they probably just substituted it   for something else so um I mean I as you know i'  I'd love to get my hands on one of these things   and uh investigate it well we've got samples that  we'd like to give you in your lab we took as you   suggested some scrapings of the corrosion on the 

side of the sphere what could you do with those I   mean I would do the same kind of mass spectrometry  experiments that I've done before uh and then also   there's a there's a kind of um non-destructive  analysis you can do it's kind of it's called an   electron back scatter uh approach to determine  what some of the elements are um any Mass Petry   approach is inherently partly destructive  so I would be using the least of the dest   destructive uh approaches for this now one thing 

I hadn't thought about we we were obviously at   one stage Keen when we were in texus to get this  thing scanned in some way but obviously if there   is I mean a remote possibility that this is some  kind of Technology it's not just a steel ball mhm   nobody's going to put it into a scanner until  they know what's inside it well I wouldn't put   it in a scanner unless that scanner was in the  middle of a field surrounded by concrete because   I wouldn't want something bad to happen so it's a 

big issue how on Earth can we prove what Jim says   about that object so I think there are very simple  mobile scanners that you you know might cost a few   thousand dollars that you wouldn't mind losing  uh first of all uh to see if there's any kind of   um structure inside of the object you know as you  know you you measured the weight uh you measured   the circumference we could figure out what the  density was uh was the density significant to   you it wasn't pure iron that basically that the 

size of it if it were iron or anything else it   it uh it wasn't pure iron which means it's a  manufactured alloy of some it's a manufactured   alloy or or it is has Steel on the outside and it  has something else on the inside now one of the   explanations that was given for the bits ball  when it was discovered in the 1970s was that   it was part of a ball valve that it was identical  to or similar to a ball valve that's found inside   some industrial technology I that's possible with 

this one it is it's always the story and then the   provence of the uh object and how long uh you do  you trust the story and uh and is there any other   anomalous behavior of the object well it does move  around and so I kind of find that fascinating um   it makes me wonder why and we've talked about you  know conventional ways it could still do something   like that cuz it's possible I mean we we all  conceded when we saw it it was moving around   within a few minutes of when we put it on the 

ground it appeared to be stopped it appeared to   be stable but then somehow it started moving so  maybe it was movement from us walking across the   floor or something like that that made it move  we can't exclude that possibility right um is   there a machine even assuming one can get access  to be allowed to use the machine but is there a   machine that can look through still oh yeah oh  yeah I mean that's a standard I mean you know   whether anybody would let you do it is really the 

question um but I would say that uh you know there   are people I know uh in the government that would  have such instrumentation that would I don't know   if Jim would let the government have it to be I  know that's the that's part of the problem um I'm   not sure I would want to get it to them either you  know uh but we'll see when you say the government   been involved in a cover up do you think they've  been concealing oh yes it's an amazing I I I I   know it for a fact I mean I just know that why why 

do you know that because I've spoken to the people   who are about to come out and and whistleblow on  it wow so you know what's coming yeah so there has   been a cover up yeah and there has been an active  cover up and what's nice actually frankly about   the transparency is uh the um uh machinations  and maneuvering of the people who've been keping   keeping things behind the scenes there the light  has been shown on them I mean just just look at   what the Department of Defense announced last week 

they announced an office to study the phenomenon   money put aside they've said we're going to go  back to 1947 which is incredible that's the date   of Roswell yeah 1947 we want a list of every uh  every operation that you've done to disinform and   misinform we want and this is fascinating that  they did this we want a list of all of the ndas   the non-disclosure agreements that uh have been  instituted around these kinds of programs why is   that interesting it's not the ndas themselves 

it's the people who signed the M ndas because   that then is the paper trail to the individuals  and the programs in which that they're associated   are you aware of a document called The Admiral  Wilson document yes do you think it's genuine   yes wow I mean I know Eric Davis and um you know  Eric is uh of a kind of character that is just   impossible for him to lie the significance of that  document is that the former immediate director of   the defense intelligence agency Admiral Thomas 

Wilson allegedly had a conversation with with Dr   Eric Davis a renowned physicist where he imparted  his discovery that there was a secret UFO reverse   engineering program going on inside the US  government where they were hiding recovered   spacecraft mhm and it was being hidden in private  Aerospace in a private Aerospace Corporation the   journalist in me Garry thinks Americans can't keep  secrets I mean everything leaks in this country   and this is an example of it okay so you take 

that point yeah ultimately it did leak ultimately   it leaked but was interesting was that how it was  found it was found in Edgar Mitchell's uh effects   after he died uh so it wasn't like anybody went  out of their way to put it out there and it Apollo   14 astronaut yeah and Eric Davis had written it  and I don't know what the story was as to how   Edgar uh got m do Dr Mitchell got a hold of it but  nobody was looking to actively reveal this it was   the work of journalists who finally got a hold of 

Edgar's materials who decided to release it um so   it it why would Eric Davis lie about writing  something that he never intended to go public   in the first place he was just doing what an  intelligence agent does on a regular basis which   is write reports of what it is that they've been  doing and Eric conspicuously has never made any   comment one way or the other about the veracity of  the document right well he can't can he he can't   but well before this came to light I already knew 

of the document so uh because you know Eric was   part of a group that I was associated with around  this the implications of that are mindblowing   Garry I mean this conversation you told me that  you you you believe on evidence that there is a   non-human intelligence of advanced technology  on this planet right Advanced capabilities now   I don't know whether it's a technology per se  because I'm leaving open the idea that it's some   form of Consciousness that is non-material and I 

know my say to my colleagues out there I know this   all sounds absolutely crazy but if you've seen  the things that I've seen you would only be able   to come to a similar conclusion uh you know I and  I know again my reputation takes a hit I'm sure   that there are you know prizes and other things  that I am never going to get because I'm talking   about this that's nowhere near as important as the  subject matter to me the best science isn't it is   when you go against the grain yeah well that's 

the you know Thomas cun's book the structure of   scientific revolutions uh eventually the anomalies  and the things that don't fit the picture add up   to the point where you can't ignore it anymore  and so that's what has just recently happened   we're watching a cunan moment this is huge isn't  it we're at a huge moment in human history right   now to me I mean either it's a gigantic F of  do right uh it's a f of bazillion people or   it's real and so on the off chance that it's real 

I'm willing to spend uh any amount of time doing   it I mean you know the the you the Mega Millions  Power Ball is this weekend uh guess who went down   and bought 20 even though I know that there's  like you know one in a 300 million chance that   I'm going to get it and I bet you'd spend all the  money on science I probably would yeah I wouldn't   be doing my job Garry if I didn't come back to  the fact that you've told me you've spoken to   some of the whistleblowers mhm how hard has it 

been for them to come out of the black world and   admit that they know about a government cover up  well it has I think it's been extremely difficult   for them um up until what Lou alzando and Chris  melon have accomplished right basically getting   the US government to come out and create now uh uh  an atmosphere of allowance to talk about it I mean   it happened even like a two years ago with the  Navy where they said now we want you to tell us   about these events that you're seeing we we we 

want you to stop hiding it do you believe that   though I mean I'm sorry I'm very cynical about  the idea that elements of the US armed forces   have suddenly undergone a religious conversion  and decided that they want to be disclosure   activists I just don't buy it I mean I think the  US Air Force in particular is trying to gag this   whole story isn't it yes but I mean you just use  the word religious experience I mean it's uh I   mean I hate to say it it's it's pretty well known 

that the people within the government who are the   most uh the most anti- letting of this information  out are religious fundamentalists who believe that   this is I mean talk about crazy they're the ones  who think it's the devil yeah right so so they're   saying it's demonic I I've actually had people  with conversations with people in the US Air Force   who've told me this is demonic you shouldn't be  looking at this this is evil right and and uh so   how do you counter that kind of uh world view um 

to me even if it is demonic I want to understand   what they're doing and what their intent is well  that was my next question do you think on the   evidence it's well intentioned whatever it is I  think it's uh neutral to be honest it's ambivalent   to that it's ambivalent and you know if we kind of  get in the way of whatever it is they're doing uh   you can get hurt do you think the others whatever  they are these aliens that you believe are here do   you think they want to be known about well they're 

obviously not doing much uh to hide themselves   right I think they're showing us what they can  do right they they do show up they''re showing   up around the nuclear sites we all know this now  we've seen them over bases in Australia right   we've seen seen them around the USS limits and uh  it happens multiple times a week I mean even today   and I've been speaking with people about that  by definition that's a threat isn't it yeah it   doesn't mean they're going to kill us but it's by 

definition a threat because they're breaching the   security of some of the most sensitive military  installations on the planet right and I I guess   what they're saying is Well who said this was  your space anyway you know but but but I mean   but so why the interest in nuclear sites I mean I  I've said this before that um you know so Humanity   I think is on the verge of leaving the planet  as we know and I think any intelligence that   would be looking at us from the outside that's 

been around as long as perhaps they have knows   what the trajectory of humanity might be uh and  that would be to move out into the solar system   and maybe eventually even if it takes conventional  means to accomplish it move out into other stars   so here we are a planet full of angry monkeys uh  and uh we can't even take care of our own planet   and we're threatening to move out into the you  know nearby you know galactic arm you know might   take us a thousand 10,000 years to do it maybe our 

neighbors uh want to know uh what it is that we're   capable of doing there's a document I wrote about  in my book called slide nine and Chris Millan had   accidentally left it on his website and it was  discovered by a very clever British researcher   who was just going through and checking to see  what Chris had on his website it's a document   that was prepared as a briefing document for  the under Secretary of Defense by members of   the UFO task force I think Lando's team MH the key 

thing about it is that it advises that whatever   the phenomenon is it's capable of manipulating  human perception mhm human consciousness right   it can make us see things that are there mhm  do you think that's possibly what we're seeing   in the sky in the form of I mean I think that's  part of what makes it so difficult to reproduce   is that different people see different things I  mean the best example of this that I know uh is   a a story that Jack uh valet brought to me of a 

family in uh France driving down the highway uh   this was like in the last 5 to 10 years and uh  they had a a glass topped car and they look up   and they see a UFO you know basically paralleling  them down the highway the mother looks around and   sees that no other individuals nearby are freaking  out about this thing above them the children in   the back take out their cell phones take a picture  of it they get home and they look at the pictures   on their camera and they don't see an object 

they see a little star-shaped thing about 30   so feet above it and I have the picture uh that  doesn't look anything like a drone it's like a   I think it has like seven Spokes and a a central  hole of some sort so you're you're left with this   they saw a giant craft but the picture shows  that there was nothing else there nobody else   could see it so even if it was an object it was  that was there others weren't capable of seeing   it so it was manipulating Vision so yes is the 

short answer there's a possibility Garry that you   are one of the few scientists in the world who who  are investigating what is potentially the biggest   scientific discovery of all time isn't there yes  and what I actually hope to find let's say is that   on the inside there are other scientists who've  been working on this problem for way more years   than I've even been interested in it and they  can basically I'd be perfectly happy with them   stepping forward and taking the Limelight because 

it's not about what I want to find it's about what   is and if others are there which already know  it let's catch everybody else up so Jim let's   talk about Jim for Texas right Jim's happy to  be interrogated he wants to be challenged MH   he he's so thrilled that there might be any kind  of scientific investigation into what he says is   there interest in having a look at what he's  got oh absolutely I would but again it's the   resources and capability have to be there I'm not 

going to go down down there and ask him to give me   the thing and then I just take it home and wait to  you know set up the kinds of analyses that need to   be done if when you've got a laboratory that will  accept absolutely this technology and be able to   scan it properly you'll do it oh absolutely why  not you know I mean I have looked at many things   over the years you probably the you know some of  your listeners might know the aama mummy example   somebody wanted it to be an alien I said hm let's 

use science to study it no it turns out to be uh   unfortunately a uh probably a still birth of some  kind and I I noce Dr Greer has maintained that you   were obviously got at by the intelligence agencies  to stop you from revealing the fact that it was   alien well he he knows where the sample is and the  good thing about science is he could go back and   test it again so the point that you're making is  that you're prepared to be rigorous and challenge   the Believers right when you can prove it there's 

actually another uh there they called it the star   child skull uh that I you know basically got my  hands on to look at it also is just human I mean   it's it's not about the most spectacular cases  and this is the same thing in science the best   science is always noticing the points that are  off the curve that are the unexpected because you   first of all you have to explain why that point  is off the curve because it might be something   wrong with your experiment but if it is off the 

curve and it's absolutely reproducible then you've   discovered something novel this is what we're  looking at right now it's off the curve if it is   real it is as you say the biggest Discovery uh in  human history but if it is real it's already been   discovered by the governments so let's just get  it over with and get the information out and start   you know bringing the collective uh intelligence  of the planet to study it final question from   what you know of these whistleblowers and the 

determination of the people in the Congress and   people like Lando and Chris melan do you think  we're going to get answers soon yes how soon   I I think in the next two years and do you think  there will be public hearings where people reveal   into the Congress what they know whether their  public hearings at the beginning uh no I don't   think but I think there is we are getting ready  for a public announcement wow think and do you   think that Public Announcement might be there is 

another life form of Intelligence on this planet   yes I mean that's the only trajectory we've got  I mean I've always said that I've only ever been   interested in studying the inevitable or  working on the inevitable in my science   so I think it's inevitable Professor  Garry Nolan thank you very much thank you