IQT Explains: The Art of Investing for National Security

Transcript

[Music] the year is 1999. a global technological evolution is underway the internet is widely available mobile applications are launching and the digital revolution has arrived at the same time the CIA and U.S government agencies recognize they are missing out on The Cutting Edge Innovative and impactful Technologies coming out of Silicon Valley and Beyond combining the security Savvy of government with a can-do curiosity of Silicon Valley iqt was born 20 plus years later and iqt continues to serve in the National interest connecting a diverse ecosystem comprising of the National Security Community The Venture Capital Community and startup companies developing world-class cutting-edge technology to identify research and cultivate new technology to support the Safety and Security of the U.S and its allies welcome to iqt explains a series on the iqt podcast where we explore technology Trends and their impact on National Security to provide insights and unique perspectives from thought leaders within iqt I'm your host Vishal santasera today we're going to lend insights into how iqt makes Investments and the impact they have on National Security joining me on today's podcast are AJ Bertone and Matt kempf two good friends and colleagues here at iqt AJ is a partner on iqt's investment team primarily focused on investments in Enterprise software companies prior to iqt in 2017 AJ was a consultant at Bain Company in San Francisco and is also a West Point grad and former military AJ welcome nice to have you thanks it's great to be here Matt is a vice president on iqt's agency partnership team focused on Outreach and account activity while accelerating the use of iqt portfolio company Technologies in the intelligence community's Mission and Technology infrastructure prior to joining iqt in 2018 Matt worked at the National Security Agency the NSA serving as a platform manager for the nsa's commercial engagement Center working with commercial companies to make our nation safer at home and abroad Matt welcome thank you so much it's great to have you both so before we get uh before we get going on a conversation I thought it might be useful to provide a very brief overview of what iqt is for our audience uh some it's reasonable to assume that some people might not know what it is and I thought maybe I'll start what like I always do with some definitions and today today's definition we'll we'll start with what iqt is uh so in a nutshell iqt identifies and matches emerging technology developed by startups to address gaps in National Security technological capabilities I like to talk about iqt from the concept of being a Strategic investment firm a lot of folks out there are probably familiar with the concept of a venture capital fund or a venture capital firm while different not too dissimilar I'd suggest iqt sort of focuses on Mission impact technological um relevance and and technological efficiency in the face of the intelligence community and its missions and perhaps secondary or tertiary on on financial outcome or gain as a not-for-profit dedicated to Mission impact and again not financial gain iqt invests in startup technologies that have commercial use and viable ability while demonstrating the capability to advance the mission needs of our government partners and we'll talk a lot about them today and their needs and Matt you have sort of a very right background with a particular set of our customers so very excited to talk to you and AJ you've got a very good and Broad Outlook sort of on the the technology landscape so I think it's great that we have you both as a part of today's conversation I think what we'll do is we'll start with the conversation around how does iqt even source and make investments so the world is a wide big place there's there's lots of great ideas out there a lot of really interesting people working on interesting things and iqt sort of has uh has a unique position to to go out and seek and Source these organizations and companies and make investments in them and AJ maybe we'll start with you uh to help us sort of start the conversation around thinking about what is it that we look for as iqt when you sit down with Founders and talk about ink utel and explain how we work and who we are what are the things that you bring to bear what do you highlight with them and what are some of the questions and answers that go back and forth yeah um so I normally give a little Spiel I think you tell 101 type thing um and I lead it off by saying incutel is a strategic investor for the U.S intelligence and defense communities and very simply we exist to bridge innovative commercially focused venture-backed startup Technologies to problems of National Security um and I don't always get into the details of this up front but like to unpack that a little bit because there's this underlying question of you know what do we focus on at incutel what technologies are interesting to us and you know at What stages of a company's life cycle are we going to invest in um you know Innovative we're looking for solutions that are differentiated or unique in some way that are ideally going to offer the government a more efficient or effective way of addressing their problem or problems uh commercially focused this one sometimes is a head scratcher especially for people who are less familiar with us and think you know you're a government entity which we are not um or that you exist to invest in government-focused technology we actually do not we were created back in 1999 one of the primary motivations was to tap into things that were being built for commercial markets that government was potentially going to have a difficult time accessing um venture-backed this ties into the commercial focus and some of the undercurrent and momentum that was building in 1999 in around Silicon Valley physically here in the Bay Area now that term means you know Tech Innovation early stage Tech Innovation around the world um but it really belies a company that's on a trajectory to capture a large Market opportunity a venture scale business um and then finally relevant to National Security and of course we can't expect Founders to know this Opera but um we exist to bring Technologies to National Security so of course they need to have a tie back to Mission uh so that's normally how I explain you know what we're looking for and what the objective of that work is um in terms of stage or like what that translates to it's everything from the most mundane you know could be nuts and bolts enterprise software stuff that Fortune 500 Enterprises are buying to highly specialized stuff that might go up on a satellite in space and from a stage perspective we're stage agnostic it could be that it makes sense to invest at the pre-seed because we have strong conviction that this is going to become impactful to our partners in a 12 to 24 month period of time or it could happen at the growth stage where companies are at you know potentially tens of millions of dollars in revenue and for one reason or another they they and ink utel now have a shared view that there's an opportunity to to be addressed in the near term in the public sector so that's a little bit of you know how initial or first conversations go and how I describe what we're trying to do there are many many layers below which I think we'll get to some of them during the conversation thanks AJ Matt same question to you when you sit down with government Partners what typically are you talking about and what are you highlighting and how does that conversation go that's a good question I think when we sit down with folks within the government and our mission Partners who've never been exposed to Inky tell or really kind of walk through who we are and what we do um I kind of like to remind them that we sit in this like intersection of three different worlds you've got the Venture Capital Community you got the early stage startup community and you've got our government Partners government Partners very unique requirements uh the commercial industry and the early stage companies you know they're building the tech to survive and to build a company and to build a lifestyle around you know whatever their product is and how they're going to change the world and the Venture Capital Community who's looking to invest in those startups that could change the world uh potentially to see you know a greater upside and you know making an impact um so literally the first thing that I really walk through is just what are you trying to solve what keeps you up at night when are you screaming at your machine when you're trying to do X or Y like walk me through the pain points on why you're looking for a solution or just simply walk me through your day uh and maybe you don't need a solution But ultimately when I sit down with government Partners the the focus is what what are the opportunities you're ex you're exposed to that you think maybe there's maybe a better solution out there AJ's team and the investment team and the tech staff here at inkytel we talked to a lot of companies uh annually and we're constantly exploring just what's within the realm of possible to bring into the building and to bring back to the government Partners to expose if we can you know talk to a thousand companies a year and bring all those you know insights and feedback back to our government Partners say this is what exists in the marketplace uh we're winning so when we're sitting down with the government Partners we want to be able to explain at a high level and as deep as we need to get do on the go on the ones and zeros on the tech like simply what is out there inform our government partners that these are the technical insights and resources available to you by working through inkytel and how we can bring that back to the table um but ultimately it's really a conversation of of enabling Inky tell to play matchmaker again what are your problems what are you trying to solve what have you already tried to solve inside the building that hasn't worked out that maybe an early stage company as as uh attempted and not only just early stage companies yes we're a not-profit strategic investor for early stage companies but we've been doing this for a very long time and our network is somewhat massive in the sense that maybe there's not an early stage company out there at least can expose them to what else might exist in the marketplace that's great I think it's useful for us to sort of do a very quick visualization exercise on behalf of our listeners um I know this certainly helps me um you know collectively I think we've got uh over maybe 25 years of linear experience if we were to add up the number of years that we've all spent at this organization but it's safe to assume that our audience has not so let me draw this out and tell me if I'm getting this right both of you feel free to chime in if we were to draw an entity diagram of the universe of cast of characters involved here so it looks like we've got a circle for encutel and other investors perhaps that that that work uh alongside and qutel we've got another Circle that is our U.S government Partners you know folks Within These agencies Matt uh your cus your former place of uh employment included and we've got another Circle that is this world of innovation the entrepreneurs the small startup businesses large startup business is whatever the case may be but place of pockets where Innovation and Technical development is taking place and if you tell sort of works in in a bi-directional fashion amongst all of these amongst all these characters am I getting that right so far I would say so Asia look to you yeah I mean it's pretty straightforward so I think yeah yeah excellent so with that in mind let's talk a little bit about what is it that we bring to the table to both of these what value let's talk a little bit about value proposition I guess and we'll start AJ with you when we talk about the entity diagram and the line the lineage that sort of exists between uh inqutel and startup Community the the founders the the small companies what is it that uh they get from us and what do we get from them you know I'll start maybe with the startups right so I think it's no secret that the government spends hundreds of billions of dollars on technology on an annual basis so the addressable Market or I should say rather the total Market is very large um but the percentage of that that's addressable is perhaps not and that's because it can be very challenging to find you know who is the person or where is the group in government that has a problem that is analogous to the one that I'm solving in the commercial World once I've identified that individual or set of individuals how do I access them um we often joke you know uh try and show up to the front door well there's not actually a front door really get to the gate of CIA let them know that you're there to talk to someone and how's that conversation going to go um so the point I'm trying to make is it's very difficult to figure out what the problems are that look like the problems you're solving when you have done that to access those problems and then once you've done those pieces to figure out like how do I actually get my product into the building there are a whole number of additional hurdles when it comes to actually getting product on the software side in particular deployed in many of these environments and to the question of inkytel's value prop I think one of the biggest things we can do for these startups that we're working with is give them leverage and de-risk that proposition um you know remove some of the opacity um you know chart a path through this Labyrinthian maze that it is to you know figure out these opportunities in public sector and actually sell into them um so you know we're leveraging our relationships with government our network with government our knowledge of the problems that exist in government um and and we expose them to early stage companies in unclassified ways right by creating these analogs and then in addition to providing our own guidance on you know our view based on what we see in government and in these commercial markets on where the company should take its technology we're also providing Capital uh to to de-risk the development of the product in ways that make it consumable by the government partners that we work with so I think that's you know largely you know a big component of Inky tells value prop when it comes to the early stage startup ecosystem AJ from your from your perspective what about the uh that the proposition of potentially opening up a new market for for some of the for some of these companies right there's uh I think um my question to you very succinctly is what is the appetite or what are the ranges of appetites that uh the companies that you've interacted with um when it comes to opening up to a US Government Market I mean I think it's it varies right we look at a lot of different companies across a bunch of different domains and it doesn't just vary based on that but it also has changed over time you know sentiment towards government and public sector it waxes and wanes uh it's in many ways it's political in nature it's also based on budget there are a number of reasons um you know why there is variance there um I would say you know my journal view like right now is that people are looking towards public sector um much more favorably than they have in years past um I think also some of the things we're seeing from a macro Market perspective government budgets tend to endure in different ways relative to Enterprise budgets in in you know macro market downturns and so I think yeah there is a bit of sentiment shift towards you know I think favoring going after public sector Market opportunities many of the criticisms are still there sales Cycles can be really long again some of the challenges I mentioned that get back to the eqtel value prop like as an early stage company when you only have 12 months of cash in the bank how can you justify to yourself or to your investors that you're going to go after this opportunity that you can't exactly say who is the person that has the problem you're going to try and go after and it's going to maybe take you 24 months to sell to that person right it's very challenging um but again the opportunity is there and the budgets are big you just have to have a way um or something that gives you confidence that you can crack into them and I think inkyutel is that thing that can give you that confidence and also again provide you that Capital so um I hope that answered your question it does it does thanks AJ so we've been a little history lesson you know incontel's been around again as I said at the top of our episode here since 1999 uh so you know over 20 20 years and in that time um you know I'm biased in my opinion but I'd like to think of us as being relatively successful in what and all the things that we've done and the things we've tried along along the way but I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that certainly there's competition uh in in this sort of area that we play in and I'd love your both of your thoughts on you know um other models or other other places that are doing something very similar and are also sort of targeting similar uh both you know pockets of innovation as well as Government Partners um and I will sort of couch this by saying I'd love to have a conversation around how All Ships rise in this instance but I think it is important to draw out uh perhaps what makes us uh different from or distinct from others in the space uh and Matt why don't we start with you first well I think at the end of the day you know Inky tail was founded as a way a better way again to bring that private sector insight into what the government was looking to solve whether it's an in-house commercial solution or elsewhere um the more tools the better is is what our government needs public-private Partnerships is an area that I've come from for many years we need to just constantly having that conversation that dialogue of what industry is looking to solve and what the government's trying to solve and have a trust between one of those you kind of figure out where this is going um there are a lot of different entities uh in our community within the government and even in Industry today that are woken to uh fund early stage startups that are going to support the national uh security mission space there are a lot of companies looking to simply be the next uh incubator that a large system integrator purchases to bring in-house there are a lot of tools out there and so the more the merrier the better great AJ your thoughts yeah I tend to agree on Rising tide lifts all boats um to the question of competition I mean to be kind of blunt about it I don't think I'm not aware of another entity that does what in qtel does um there is not another non-profit strategic investor for the U.S intelligence and defense Community we off uh we occupy a very unique position in this market if you want to think of it like that that being said there are other things that maybe look like us or you know are doing things that are complementary to us I think that's actually a better way of thinking of it these there are a bunch of things that are happening in the ecosystem that are complementary to us and you might put them in three different buckets um you have institutional Venture Capital firms financially oriented Venture Capital firms that like defense Tech or what people now commonly refer to as dual use technology they like that as an investment theme right my view on that is that that is bringing more Capital um to a category that 18tel cares about and that government Partners care about that's more opportunity for the startups we invest in to raise more money to grow into a larger business to stay around longer whatever that might be um spocket and Matt kind of alluded to this there are a number of you know defense contractors if you will Prime contractors so like Lockheed Martin comes to mind that have corporate Venture Capital firms but they tend to be a bit more oriented on bringing Technologies in-house or potentially you know getting access to Technologies for future contracts right that is that is not something that is largely competitive with what inqtel is doing um and then finally you have these government operated um you might call them Innovation entities or innovation activities ones that commonly come up nowadays are F Ventures and diu um there are a number of others as as Matt also mentioned and so because there are so many I think you know I'd be hesitant to like I think we need a lot more time to dive into them um one thing I could say uh relatively confidently is that um when it comes to distinguishing incutel from some of these other government Innovation entities and this is the fact that we're not a government entity is that um we come to the table as a venture capital firm as an investor um and I think in almost every other instance for these government Innovation entities they come to the table as a customer and that is a fundamentally different Dynamic um that has many second and third order effects in terms of how these entities operate um you know the their motivations what they're trying to achieve and ultimately what the output is from them and in my experience I think Utah over the past six years and working alongside a number of them again I think it gets back to they are far more complementary than they are competitive within Ketel yeah it's great answer I hope hopefully that was sufficient yeah very well all right all right so let's switch gears um and talk a little bit about the nuts and bolts of how inkyutel Works uh and to set the stage I'm going to make a playful narrative here so AJ you're on the investment team here at incatel Let's uh let's assume you have talked to a handful of uh entrepreneurs and you have identified a company of of uh interest that is uh a good Target Frankie to make an investment and and in fact we have made an investment there's a whole bunch of work that happens afterwards it doesn't quite stop there which is another reason why I think you can tell is is sort of very different from a traditional venture capitalist or um you know I think the fact that we tend to have these things called work programs and and we adapt products and all this kind of stuff make us very different and perhaps more Hands-On to sort of mitigate some of the the downstream usage of some of these Technologies and Matt I'd like to talk to you a little bit about what happens after AJ has identified a company we've made an investment after much sort of uh due diligence and sort of introspection this sets off a Cascade of things I think for you and your team and and the customers that you represent on this entity diagram that we talked about a little bit earlier on uh as far as USG Partners go why don't you talk us through uh through sort of the beginning middle and end of that I think I'll start before that actually and that's ultimately we are focused on opportunities to impact the National Security space and to have Mission impact so again it starts with a partnership if there's an opportunity for us to get a closer understand of what is keeping our government Partners up at night if they are in a position in an unclassified space or in a classified space to really share what they're trying to solve that empowers and arms teams on their investment team and the tech team to go out and Scout the market uh identify companies that could potentially solve these um Mission areas at the unclassified level you know and that's what enables us to really get to that the phrases work program where essentially a contract between inkytel and the company to enhance their product we want to be able to connect our government partners with the incatel staff to really walk through a pain point that they're experiencing inside the building that they just have not thought a private sector company could solve you know we're in a position to really sit down with our government partners and the company and until staff to really walk through creatively how can we enhance this product to solve for Mission need it can be a year it can be two years It ultimately depends the contractor the work program can last as long as it takes in terms of the effort that's needed to enhance that product to be tested and evaluated by our government Partners but it's not always a guarantee these are early stage companies we want to test their limits of where they're taking their technology with a creative partner in the government to really sit there and test and value and say hey this was supposed to Blink green it's not blinking green it should have been on XYZ whatever the case might be so again it's a dialogue between the government and the company and they're constantly at the table together to focus on how can this text Solve my problem and not how can I make a sale from the government the focus is always on the tech and I think that's a key piece that we we tend to focus on once a work program is kicked off and not worried about the the procurement of anything until they've proven the tech can solve the problem as close as they can and Matt you said something very important which is the word enhancement right um when it comes to the type of uh things that that our work programs or these sort of these these these contracts that we have with with the startups when it comes to these these contractors we're talking about enhancers we're actually talking about making useful changes to an already commercial or near commercialized product and what this typically means I think if you're on the on sort of the startup side is you're thinking through okay what is it that I'm going to improve upon or add as far as feature sets are concerned or capabilities I might want to bring uh closer in my in my product roadmap in terms of timeline open question to either of you um how often uh is it a concern that perhaps some of these enhancements uh may or may not in fact be of interest from a commercial standpoint so you know these companies are companies that already have commercialized or near commercialized uh products uh and I imagine incutella wants to mitigate the risk of you know forcing them down a path that might not be commercially viable how do we think about that how do we perhaps mitigate some of that um and and ultimately what what are sort of the large-scale outcomes you see in regards to the way features are actually added onto a roadmap for a startup yeah I can take a first crack at that when I when I explain the work program construct to to a Founder I normally say we're looking to do here is think of this as a Venn diagram on you know in one Circle it's what is on your commercial product path and then the other which they don't know but this is inqutel's job what does a product or technology or solution need to do in order to meet the use cases of the government and where is their intersection between those things that is what we want to focus the work program on 90 of what we do within the work program should be on your commercial path already things that are maybe 12 24 36 months out we're going to give you some funding to bring them in and now you're going to do them over the next you know six months or something like that but by and large the work program is not about building bespoke one-off stuff that only the government is going to consume that is a critical point that I think we could spend more time talking about um but critically you know it's about being interesting to the startup like and to the startups investors if anything we get pushed back from Venture Capital firms that are like no no this company needs to be focused on the commercial Market we do not want you to take it on a complete and total tangent but it's also for government we don't want the things we invest in to become shelfware and to the extent we invest in these capabilities and at the same time bring the government to a place where they can consume something that looks more commercial in nature they're going to benefit on an enduring basis from all the updates and all the Innovation that takes place in that commercial product so that's really important I will say sometimes there are things that we do that maybe do feel customer specific in Industry as well especially for large customers companies often will do specific customer related work that is part of what we do sometimes in some work work programs but by and large um you know majority of the effort is focused on the commercial product path um now I don't know if you have anything else to add yeah I'll give a specific example because oftentimes our even our government Partners tend to think like well I need this unique enhancement or feature to be added so one example often discussed is I love the product of the company but it's a SAS platform it lives in the internet I don't trust the Internet it's the joke of the day usually uh well when the company's thinking of putting this on-prem or in a self-hosted environment behind a firewall where it can't touch the internet then call me well guess what that requirement is probably something a bank a financial industry a healthcare companies there are other commercial vendors who would want a similar solution still to this day even though SAS is this thing they're going to still ask for that question so the company will be provided with the insights of like well that's on a roadmap further down to the right inkytel provides an opportunity to really sit down with the government Partners to Think Through like if this were to be on-prem behind a firewall what would it look like what are the features you needed to work and then the company can also take that to their other potential customers to say hey if we built this are these you know most time those those ask those value props that the government's pitching to the company line up to what the government uh or what the commercial industry is asking for and it's an easier conversation when you kind of walk through you know your specific needs are not so specific that no one else in the world would ask for the same thing yeah something interesting I want to ask you you talk we talk about building things um sometimes and I think I've heard the silver it definitely with colleagues from from your previous employer this idea of it not invented here or like you know building things in-house right so on on the one hand we're talking a lot today about the things that we can build out in the sort of private sector industry you know startup environment um but the US government has a long history of building things in-house and it has a long history of building very in my opinion uh successful big things in-house what is it that you tell someone like uh you know you know some someone that's sort of sitting in front of you from the US government um how do you get them off the ledge of hey you should not build this on your own you might want to consider outside capabilities what are some of the things that you espouse and how do you convince uh or change that mindset a little bit just ensuring the conversation takes place is goal number one um there are some things that need to be built inside the building for a variety of reasons and you're never going to convince uh those that are on that train off but if you can at least expose them to what you're trying to solve is already being solved or at least attempted in Industry I'd like to expose you to those conversations so again sitting down with tech staff and investment staff talking to a thousand companies here just bring them to the table to see what might be out there not so they walk away with a better way to build the thing internally I know that is often a concern that folks hear of like well I'm not going to talk to inkytel because they're going to show the government all my secrets not the case um it's just simply exposure of you know if you're going to build it internally you know have you taken the five to ten minutes to do your due diligence to see who else might have tried this in the past are there Lessons Learned is there a commercial vendor that does this today you can buy off the shelf or again is there an opportunity here to really creatively work with an early stage company that could potentially solve your mission need and if you sat down at the table and walk through what those enhancements might be maybe we can you know change thinking in terms of what that solution actually should be whether it's a combination of what's out on the market or what's in the building or whatnot but just encouraging the conversation to take place is usually our first goal when we're when we're talking to the government great thanks Matt gentlemen our time is approaching uh and before we go I wanted to take a little bit of time to sort of rattle off a few questions very common questions that I get I'm sure all of you get as well uh just to help set the record straight on a couple things first and foremost how big is inqutel Matt how big of a team are we all together what do we have these days uh so we have offices in Arlington Virginia Menlo Park California Waltham London and Sydney Australia I want to say 180 see the rice count it's definitely grown in the four years that I've been here but I think we're at 180 or so right now I think it seems right uh AJ how quickly do you make investment decisions we make investment decisions on two dimensions one is a traditional venture capitalist lens about a company's market opportunity the product they built for that market opportunity and their ability to execute on that the other is the National Security lens which is how is this going to fit into the national security problem space great thanks AJ last question for both of you actually and we'll start with Matt first how do you measure success so clearly I would imagine success is probably different for both of you I'd love to get a sense of what Matt thinks success is and how he measures it AJ same question to you after that how we measure success is did this technology impact the National Security space or the mission of our government partners and that can be yes a story but also you know through reporting through any of the other mechanisms that the government tracks uh it really it's a conversation piece to really how did we enable you to be faster stronger better did we save time did we say the analyst time did we give them a tool or did that company give them a tool and an enhancement that enables them to be quicker to do a transcript or whatever it varies but ultimately is there a story to show that shows and highlights you know the impact we had on the National Security Mission through the engagement of having a government partner sit down with a company walk through how their product could potentially you know solve a mission problem that we've been tracking for a while and and continue that success and it's not it's a one and done it's a hopefully this will remain on for years to come and it's still something we put on our our boards in the office and the government continues to talk through how you know this company was an equal company and without incatel we wouldn't have been able to do X and to pull on and to pull on that thread there um you know Matt's talked about impact on the National Security community and if I put you know the perspective or that put the startup hat on or the venture capitalist hat on the other you know stakeholders are part of this equation um ideally as a result of that impact that's being made on the National Security Community the National Security Community is making an impact on that startup's income statement right and that can be small or that can be big but at the end of the day the inkutel engine um and our value prop to all of our stakeholders depends on both Mission impact and companies that are providing the technology that has that impact getting something in return and you know commonly and crudely I think uh you know the first thing that's thought of is revenue there are also other benefits that many of our startups mean from working with us and working with our government Partners but at the end of the day I think you know when the things that we invest in are having an impact on Mission and also having an impact on that startup from a financial perspective that's the ultimate win-win scenario a great great thank you thanks AJ I've got a few other questions here I'm actually going to just rattle off some uh some answers and if either of you disagree how about you chime in uh a common question we get is incutel the Venture arm of the CIA the answer to that is no we're not iqt is actually a not for-profit solely uh here for Mission impact it's not a government entity nor a part of the CIA iqt is a partner to multiple agencies and you can learn more at iqt.org so I'll be making a few Shameless plugs along the way too so it's a warning there uh does iqt make international Investments Matt you alluded to this earlier we have some International office locations yes we do iqt supports a trilateral partnership between the U.S UK and Australia um the intelligence communities uh within those countries uh and we have investments in companies around 15 or so uh since Inception of iqt international Matt and AJ thank you so much for your time today I had a really great time talking to you learning a little bit more about the iqt model to our listeners thank you all for tuning in uh and if you'll stick around for another 30 seconds I'll leave you with a few resources uh online and in print that you can access to learn more about what Madden AJ talked about when it comes to inkutel's involvement in the startup space and also in the US government space so in closing thank you for tuning in to today's episodes of ICT explains please make sure to subscribe to the iqt podcast so you don't miss out on future content and leave us a review or comment to let us know what you think or what content you'd be interested to see us cover on a future podcast I also encourage you to check out iqt's website at www.iqt.org to explore more content about Cutting Edge technology to support and deliver insights and capabilities essential for National Security Mission impact you can also learn more about the history of incutel via the recent Harvard Business School case study and we'll post a link to this in the show notes but fair warning there's a paywall there our apologies in advance thank you Matt and AJ again and to our listeners thank you for tuning in we'll catch you next 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