Breakthrough in measurable LENR / Coldfusion

Transcript

[Music] we're talking with our own today alan smith uh you're in your lab and you just got back from the uh meeting down in assisi the hydrogen meeting that bill colas claudio pache and um asiya chilani also uh put together i heard the conference was tremendous and uh we want to hear about that you were there to talk about the frank gordon experiment that you're reproducing and there's a couple other people reproducing this experiment as well as you're in the lab can you talk about this frank gordon lec experiment what's so important about this why are so many people excited about reproducing this experiment well first of all i should point out i wasn't the only person talking about the frank gordon experiment john paul with barian also did a presentation on the same thing because he's been working on it too and and barbarian said it works and he's had he had more time than me before before the meeting so he was in a able to do a very significant test actually which was to get a working system and then put it under vacuum and it stopped working and he let the hydrogen back in and it started working again which kind of proves the hypothesis that somehow the the system is creating ionized gas charged gas molecules in the space between the two electrodes you know you have two electrodes a bit like this yeah and that there's a gap an insulated gap they don't touch they are completely separate electrically but there's a voltage between them just like the voltage you get on the battery and the only good hypothesis we have though it's not proven is that when the plates are prepared right the working electrode is prepared it's plated with iron or you could use palladium but iron works very well and hydrogen is is loaded into the into the plating at the same moment yeah hydrogen goes to the cathode the iron goes to the cathode and so you end up with a kind of peanut butter sandwich you've got you you have iron and hydrogen really pushed tight together and of course as head storms are theorized when you get hydrogen or deuterium loaded into these tiny gaps that it achieves intense pressure and it may well be that the coulomb barrier which may or may not exist but never mind what what we call the coulomb barrier is broken and and you so so there is some fusion of some kind but there's no radiation that we can measure i've tried with quite sophisticated equipment to look for particle emissions i haven't managed to find any but many years ago back in 1991 srinivasan and root uh that published a paper where they were doing something similar and they were using dental x-ray film i may have some here well i do have some here never mind i can't see the box at the moment but they were using dental x-ray films and that and the films were becoming fault when they were in close contact with with um a co-deposited hydrogen and metal surface so maybe that's what's happening here we've got some very very low energy x-rays beta rays alf probably alphas one would suspect alphas but very low energy um which are just charging putting an electric charge on the gas molecules in the gap between the plates and the electric charges being what they are in ionized gas they sort themselves out and the negative charge will go one way and the positive charge will go another there's a few different mechanisms by which this can happen but the original work goes right back to jj thompson in about 1898 to 1906 he did a lot of work and uh his book on uh two books he published on the conduction of electricity through gases and on the discharge of electricity through gases both talk about this phenomenon which he observed and studied so so um this is an experiment that's using kind of the lenar environment the cold fusion environment and hydrogen gas and generating voltages and electrical current directly what kind of voltages are we and current are we talking about at this time at the moment we have only built very small systems i mean my systems are bigger than in terms of surface area because you know when you think about batteries by the way let me let me just backtrack a bit you you talk about batteries have plates in well here's a plate yeah and as you see this one is about twice the size of a playing card right frank's so that has a you know a reasonable surface area frank has been using much smaller systems but the typical voltage might be anything between 200 and 400 millivolts so less than half a volt right and the currents are very small but they should not be there at all time is it for how long is the time have the time span is uh in hydrogen is some months yeah the current persists for some months but we have not really explored all the different parameters of the experiment frank has some ideas he's working on and now we're trying to engage some other people in replicating very likely that there's some people in sweden who may do this i mean they're talking about it i think i could prob possibly coax chakra to to uh to have a go um and we're looking around for other people to do more replications because there is obviously a lot of work to be done to take this from the this is interesting to this is useful stage yeah maybe maybe that's not possible maybe it will always just remain as an interesting phenomenon it's too early to tell but the obvious things to do are to use bigger plates to use more plates to build a bigger battery yeah because what it basically is is a nuclear battery but to make a nuclear battery like this you know you you you'd need a whole teaspoon full of polonium or something to produce the kind of outputs that we're seeing and here this is made with inexpensive materials it's it's very simple to construct and although there is an unknown about the radiation which may give some college health and safety uh committees cause for thought right basically it will be a wonderful first-year university experiment yeah and we see a lot of people on the lander forum that are trying to replicate it the last months two months have been quite interesting if we check on the lenovo room that's right that's right yeah and uh stevenson for remember he's done some wonderful work you know i mean i mean he's very expert experimenter and i'm very impressed with what is discovered and we i i have managed to actually do some of the same experiments that he has done and they've got exactly the same result yeah are all the people who are reproducing this are they generating the same uh relative amounts of voltage and current it looks like it from a simple system with just you know just two electrodes yeah and nobody as far as i know uh has built a system with multiple electrodes yet this is although franklin and harper whitehouse his colleague have been working on this for a long time um that i don't think they've they've actually not the engineering very much they've been mainly trying to understand the effects you know to because it's such a puzzle what the hell is going on you know have you seen something similar results no not at all not at all and i've looked yeah it's not photoelectric effect because there's no light in the system in in the ones here here the light can shine on the plates that i'm using but in the ones that stevenson and frank gordon have has created in their systems they're completely sealed there's no light there's no possibility so it's not photoelectric it's not galvanic because we we are pretty sure that there is no contact between systems yeah between the plates to to have a galvanic effect really you need two different metals yeah like like like so you know you have you have steel you have aluminium there you might get a galvanic effect but we ensure that nothing touches you know there is no contact and in fact if you do put the plates let the plates touch you lose the current immediately with this system it just vanishes yeah it's a short circuit in other words it's like pushing two plates of a battery together do we know how many have been replicated so far is this two or four or six people well at the ma as as far as i know there is uh a replicator uh working who works at los alamos who's done it in his spare time there's frankenharper there's uh bavarian the stevenson there's me and there is possibly one other so we think seven at the moment and before very long it's going to be 10. yeah this is great news yeah yeah this is good news yeah and it's very encouraging it's so reliable i mean if you if you think it's the right moment then i could show you something something about the work now yes yeah let's see it fine perfect it's going to be a little bit of noise because i'm going to turn the power supply back on [Music] and i'm going to attempt to switch cameras now should be possible somewhere here not like that ah ah here we go perfect is right so this this is i know it's a big one this this is a very conventional power supply and at the moment i'm i have a plating tank here which is full of this evil brown suit yeah which which is uh iron sulfate and uh sodium monosodium citrate and ammonia and so on which is the plating mixture and this here i can take it out now i'll turn the uh i've turned the plating current off because it's noisy but this this big and very horrible looking chunk of iron right it was it's a piece of stick piece of a big piece of heavy steel plate that's the anode so iron is being transferred onto the part from there onto the other part of the experiment which is which is this is the macguffin this is the bit we really want wow look at that oh it's pretty black but this is this is plated with iron and i think it has a surface coating of magnetite now i think it's magnetized so ah technical error there i just want to watch this again some of this magnetite is loose it's just sludgy stuff i did hope that this might fit into that beaker i should have picked the bigger beeper i never just i never checked you notice by the way i'm using my finger to clean this up that's because all this stuff is harmless yeah electrochemistry is very messy you you're not you're not kidding now i don't know if you can see now that the black sludge is gone that's the iron plate that's the bit we really want so there we are i'll hold it up to the camera hopefully you can see it's looking a bit silvery now this is a piece of glass by the way it's a piece of brass sheet and nothing special about it it's just ordinary commercial grass plate and i can disconnect this from that so now the only problem i have is it's wet yeah let's try it as carefully as i can more magnetite look see how black it is no yes yeah i've noticed that before with uh doing electrochemistry experiments with iron by the way that you make a lot of magnetite and under some conditions when you look at it it's nano magnetite which is commercially very very interesting and i don't see much in the literature by the way that anybody makes nano magnetite or even any kind of magnetite this way because you you see you could make commercially valuable magnetite which is used for all sorts of things water treatment and in lots of chemical processes you could make it from scrap metal but no bit by it by using electrochemistry but as far as i know nobody does yeah so there we are that's so here we have a business idea also there we are so that's it this is this is this is the b side and you can see that's kind of coppery it's changed color where it's been in the uh in the electrolyte because it looks more coppery than brassy that's because the electrolyte has stolen the zinc from it yeah it's eaten the zinc out of the grass is an alloy of copper and zinc and and the electrolytes stolen stolen some of the zinc off the surface but here we got the iron sight and it's reasonably dry i'd like to put this in the oven for a few minutes it doesn't make any difference to the experiment by the way but as you say you can see what's going on here can't you yeah that's it i'll move the camera a little bit which may help yeah you got all the bench so there's that one i've got this little meter here and i'll find i'm gonna i'm gonna put this one at the bottom and [Music] i'm going to find some spacers i've got some here these are microscope cover soaps which are glass yeah so consequently you'll have to take my word for it they really aren't there they're just point one of a millimeter thick so very very thin one 250th of an inch thick but they are insulating because they're glass so i'm going to put these on surface here to ensure that there is no physical contact between the plated iron and the other electrode which is going to be i think that'll do one one on each corner one in the middle and that one is not one but two okay now i have also a little wet the aluminium electrode here it just got splashed i'm going to put that on top there are you still with me yes you are very hard to actually see that see and on top of that i'm gonna put these these are lead weights yeah they're from my radiation shield wall they're not particularly difficult uh necessary for the experiment it's just that they are a very convenient way to keep everything still right now i've got this little meter here which is much more convenient for this and it's reading it will read many votes it's just sorting itself out give it a moment so it's reading when it settles down about 20 between it it's it's jumping around a bit there's probably stray electrical signals in the lab but it's reading 15 or 20 millivolts now if i put it onto this one sides already connected to the aluminium i put this one on the grass well like all good experiments it's not behaving it's showing me zero midi volts at the moment something wrong somewhere i think i've got a short circuit somewhere this is the experimenter's life you know was looking for things you can't find it you know it seems so simple when you do it but it really takes a a lot of skill to put all that together well maybe maybe ruby i've been doing this since i had long trousers that's a long time ago right okay but i've i've about the gap a little bit maybe that's what we needed reconnect it when i find the other end of this wire that's it come on it's good working on the farm here by the way especially on the saturday you should be quiet no it's still not working damn it trial and error yes as a this this is what the reward i get for saying that this experiment is worryingly without well um you're looking for the voltage but um don't we need some ionize like some hydrogen gas that will be ionized between these plates right now i've managed to get by holding them apart a little bit about 180 millivolts out of this right so yeah this system will work there are some there's something i haven't noticed going on here and it's always the same when you attempt to do experiments live you know they're very well i just got 250 million volts 300 millivolts just for but i'm only holding them apart yeah yes um to to get anything working for a long period you would need you definitely would need hydrogen because iron is so readily oxidized yeah but that seems to be the only reason i mean um it does improve the durability i'm going to switch cameras again does improve the durability of the experiment that's for sure but it's not actually key it's not actually required to run the experiment we've with matt lilly and i have had this working in air and in fact it's only a few days ago that i got the other half of the equipment working which is the vacuum chamber and the hydrogen generator so that we can run it in hydrogen but you see many gases as thompson discovered back in 18 the 1890s you can ionize many many gases and he and in fact he conducted experiments where he was using alcohol vapor carbon dioxide argon i think air hydrogen and so on yeah but the but the beauty of using hydrogen is that it stops probably or slows down the diffusion of hydrogen from within the from within the plate yeah so the hydrogen stays in there longer but the other key feature is the iron doesn't go rusty in a hydrogen atmosphere so so so so really it's practical chemistry but it's not necessary initially or when you're just doing quick experiments to to do it it may be that it's possible and i've been thinking about this but haven't yet a chance to do it to seal the hydrogen into the plate right for example um cadmium metal is used to plate the inside of steel hydrogen pressure storage vessels for storing gas because cadmium is impermeable and it may be that you could actually do this make make a plate like this and then put it back in a different plating bath and plate it with cadmium right and seal the hydrogen in there in which case cadmium by the way is a very good corrosion inhibitor for steel so maybe you could stop it going rusty and stop any requirement to run it in hydrogen and it would just run in there but i don't know yet that's just an idea i have a question for you uh now we have a receipt from frank gordon he show a recept how to do this quite cheap and uh what do we want to say to the community alan do you have some idea what do we want to see the upcoming six months 12 months well four laboratories i know although my demonstration today has not been very successful right this is the first time it's ever failed by the way he's never behaved yourself but not to worry um i think that we really need as many people as possible to replicate this if this became a meme on the internet then suddenly it becomes undeniable frank is very actually open very encouraging uh in terms of you know he's not in the least bit precious about this he's got his patents uh a couple secured there are uh a couple of similar patents which uh are known as the enterman patents which uh charlie enterman being the owner of a big bakery chain in america who was a big fan of cold fusion or maybe still is the supporter of confusion and he um somebody else who was working alongside i believe uh don't quote me on that but i believe they were working in the same lab as frank and harper also painted something somewhat similar not exactly the same somewhat similar so there is prior art as they call it in the paper business you know the the inventors of the technology are well known but frank is realizes that if this is as good as he hopes as good as he suspects it might be then all bets are off yeah it'll be a free-for-all [Music] when we talk about you know i talk about this is interesting but not yet useful but you could imagine the impacts that even a low power system would have if it was reliable if it was cheap and if it lasted for a long long time even without charging and was easy to recycle by the way all this stuff is very recyclable you know there are no there are no toxins there are no impossible materials in there every you know everything you could buy in home depot to do the experiment yeah the whole everything is available and everything is recyclable as well so it's pretty green as as systems go it's pretty green there are no nothing exotic about any of it now just imagine if for a few dollars because really there's no reason why a system should cost more than a few dollars that would power a mobile phone or maybe a few leds you could imagine that you could have a phone in your pocket that wouldn't each that maybe once a year you buy another lattice energy converter and put it in instead of a battery your phone would never need charging and maybe um maybe we've now got unlimited minutes so i carry on it may be that you could replace a billion kerosene lanterns in the world somebody said to me there are a billion people who who like their homes for kerosene yeah when they can afford it if you imagine we we we got rid of a billion kerosene lanterns in favor of a few leds for everybody what a difference it would make people wouldn't need to find the money all the time to buy the kerosene you know it the kids could do their homework after school without worrying about what it costs there would be less smoke and pollution and less co2 and less and less of everything and that's what that's what we need less of everything yeah is the time now to start replicate or do you think about the security you told us that we don't see any radiation do you think it's the time to start replicating or should they wait for something we haven't we have not been able to detect any reality radiation worth to mention maybe they found some when they were looking at los angeles probably with millions of dollars worth of equipment by the way but even that was inconclusive yeah so so it's not proven it's not disproven that's an unknown but there is certainly no penetrating radiation of any kind and as you know you can make x-rays by unrolling a a roll of scotch tape yeah maybe it's no more than that maybe it's even less yeah alan i got a question and i don't know if you can answer this but i know uh fabrice david uh spoke at the recent meeting hosted by bill collis and claudio pache and he's been working in the uh leonard direct energy electrical power space for a while do you know anything about his work and does it relate to what the lec experiment is very similar in that by the way apologies i should have mentioned that fabry spoke about this at the meeting uh it slipped my mind for the moment because he was talking about he did talk about what i described a little while ago the intimate hates the similar system but fabrice as you know has been working on something called the fusion diode system right which is more like a semiconductor i mean you know with semiconductors you you have what they call the band gap yeah and you encourage electrons to jump across the band gap which is in in a semiconductor is solid it's a solid material but it has holes in it which the electrons can go through well this there is a similarity that you might say that this was a bit like a semiconductor but but the band gap is is a gas not a solid so yes there are similarities and i'm a big admirer of fabrics and his work he's a very creative experiment you know and he does marvelously elegant experiments with very little material very often anyway yeah he's done some terrific stuff yeah and yes there is a relationship these so often you find as you dig into scientific phenomena interesting and unusual phenomena that appear to be totally unrelated the more you dig into them the more you find the links between them and and there was certainly a very strong link between the fusion diode that the fabrice david came up with and developed along with his trend in scotland and the work of frank and harper white house and the entertainment papers too yeah they're all related so not only is this generally speaking worryingly reliable if not today um then it's also the case that there are similar but not identical systems which are producing similar results yeah yeah so it does it does tend to suggest to me that we have a number of ways which are nevertheless producing a similar phenomenon yeah and if this is a new way of making electricity to me it seems to be quite revolutionary right because 200 years ago and how long it may take to develop i don't know but 200 years ago roughly speaking beccarel came up with the photoelectric the same effect that works it was 150 years before somebody bought a practical working photo cell which was a very very long development i'm not suggesting that the development code for this would be as long but we have we have we have volta and the battery we have becquerel and the photoelectric effects we have peltier and co and thermoelectricity this is something else it's something different it's another new phenomenon which we don't understand and it's all the labs check this out yes we need to know what is this to my mind it's very important yeah very important indeed and i think franken and his colleagues and harper and and the people who did the entertainment work and fabrics they have done some wonderful work some fundamental work and something that we we don't understand and at this level frank is happy to open source i'm sure that in in his lab harper and he are actually working on you know boosting the output on doing various things frank has suggested to me that they've got ideas about improving the output um and various ways in which it might be done and i don't know what they are but he does and i'm sure he will let us know he's very uh appreciative by the way of the support that he's had from from the forum in general and uh he he thinks it's great that we've picked it up to run with it because he wants as many people to do this as possible yeah we could create a meme ruby yeah well uh we should wrap this up right now and let's mention that we're getting frank gordon harper white house we're going to have a nice round table with some of the replicators and frank and harper are going to tell us about what they're doing next and where their research is now so i'm looking forward to that and seeing what has developed in the last couple of months because it does seem very quickly moving so um thank you so much alan for showing us this experiment and uh we'll see you next time david leonardforum.com we've got a thread for the frank gordon experiments uh we will post the links down here so uh check this out this is the most interesting thing this year it certainly is it may be the most interesting thing this century i think so bye-bye everyone all right see you next cold talk see you then bye [Music] you