Arlington Institute - Dr. Harold Puthoff - 3 of 7

Transcript

procedure no no i i your division directory could be inclusion too let's do another experiment only i'm going to pick the site fine so we do another experiment he picks a site we come back another hit we're ecstatic he mumbles it's got to be a fraud and i think i know how you did it you had the car bugged and we were talking about the site on the way out there let me pick another site and we're not going to talk about it in the car we're not even we're just going to drive to the site i'm going to pick it at random while we're driving okay fine so we do that it's a 30 minute experiment 15 minutes into the experiment he says quick jump in the car we're going somewhere else i say oh wait the experiment's not over he says yes but you might have had somebody following me and they've rushed back to tell them where we went so i want to go to second place meanwhile the poor remote viewer back in lab is saying it's only 15 minutes into the experiment and they're getting their car already anyway describe both sides we're ecstatic he's sure that it's still a fraud we couldn't believe what he had in mind now says well let me think about this overnight and i'll come back tomorrow and i'll i'll i'll somehow guard against what you're doing well russell and i were commiserating with each other and say you know nothing is going to change his mind we've got to pull out our trump card we've got to make him do it if he does it then he's got to deal with his own data he can't blame us because we had done that a couple of times and we were beginning to see that people normal people apparently can do this so he comes in the next day and he says okay i want to see another one where's the remote viewer and we say well today you're the room of yours he says what do you mean i don't believe in this stuff he said it much more strongly than that i gotta tell you we said well look i mean at least you'll see that it's not harmful we're not stressing the person out et cetera et cetera so anyway he agreed to do it so this time i was sent off to a site by the random protocol russell's there he says okay close your eyes and tell me what you see with regard to where hal is he says okay my eyes are closed it's dark i see the back of my eyelids he said well i mean let's face it this is a mental thing you have to use your imagination so i've got a great imagination i see him at a bridge over a stream that's just my imagination so i come back from the bridge over the stream target we take him out there he's absolutely flabbergasted we're ecstatic of course again we're driving back and say okay well we nailed it this time and he says it's a trick and i know how you did it and we said now wait a minute you did it we didn't do anything he said let's do another experiment and i'm going to foil your trick all right how do you want to do it i don't want any interviewer with me okay so i put him in the experiment room taped the door shut because he didn't trust him anymore he trusted us sent out to a site we come back take the take take the tape off the door open the door he's sitting crouched in the corner of the room with his hands over his ears he's made a little drawing it turns out by the way he really nailed the sight and we say okay well what's this thing about sitting in the corner and why didn't you want an interview it's better with an interviewer and he said well i had two hypotheses my first hypothesis was that the interviewer who of course knew the site would use subtle shifts in body language that to sort of guide me into what to put down so that's why i didn't want an interviewer my other idea was that the chair you had me sitting in had speakers in the cushions they were subliminally whispering a description of the sight to me and that's how i was getting it so that's why i sat in the corner so he said well okay well you see that's that's not it works static he's mumbling it's a trick and i just figured out how you do it hey all right so let's do another experiment this is what i want you to do you go to the site while you're at your site you take pictures you make tape recordings you do all that and when you come back you show me that stuff before i then show you what i drew he said okay this is a result of that experiment it's got sort of pie shaped sections which show up here uh arches and so on he turned it into cupula he didn't actually recognize it as a playground device he had to admit that there were definitely correlations and we said well what was this thing about us taking pictures and so on he said i finally figured out the only thing left was that when you left you didn't go anywhere if you just sat in the lobby you would come back and see what i had drawn and then take me to a site that looked like that okay well now about this time we had by the way he went back he was convinced now as you'll see later on he became one of our great all-time remote viewers anyway we had another problem about this time you have to realize that the only thing secret about this program was that it was secret and who were doing it for but you know we had volunteers come in and try out experiments and they'd go out and they would talk to people i mean my own my one of my own personal problems was the intelligence people were scouring the neighborhood uh asking if i ran around if i drank a lot and all this kind of thing to get my next level of clearance and so all my neighbors were coming to me and saying was that a secret project all these people been up well the only secret was a secret so about this time people were beginning to speculate so we really pressed on our sponsor at cia and said look you've got to let us publish something you know we've done a lot of experiments here we could publish something otherwise people are going to keep this whisper campaign that some secret project but if we publish something in the open literature that'll dampen that down so they finally agreed we could do that so we decided to write up some experiments we'd done and publish them in a journal where both my colleague russell targ and i had published many times the institute of electrical and electronics engineers proceedings we both published papers on vacuum tubes and lasers and microwave tubes and so on so we sent the manuscript off it went to bob lucky it was directory communications of bell labs he was the editor he comes back and says you know i don't know what to do i said why are is everybody trashing the manuscript he said no actually almost everybody thinks it should be published i said well what's your problem well one really heavy hitter a very leading light in in the engineering industry simply wrote this is the kind of thing i wouldn't believe in even if it were true so i don't know what to do i'm afraid that the engineers will go up and smoke if i publish this paper and i say okay how about this let us come to bell labs we'll present it to your engineering staff if they don't throw tomatoes publish it if they do don't say okay well that's fair so we went to bell labs we made a big presentation they loved it everyone's trying to figure out how it could possibly be in engineering terms so we thought that sort of sewed it up and again uh he got cold feet and so once again we put out a trump card we say okay why don't you do some experiments here in bell labs if your experiments work publish it he did them they worked and we published but of course there's a story that goes along with everything this journal this engineering journal is routinely published uh translated and published in russia so russians came back on this particular journal issue and said by the way we're going to leave out that paper on esp stuff and uh fortunately the proceedings ieee editor said well no no it's you take the whole journal issue or nothing they said okay uh well we want to at least leave out the references to the russian work that's what they're really afraid of that their own country men would realize they were doing research in this area but they the the ieee they held their ground said nope i published the whole thing the next ploy was well um there are a lot of terms here this is a new field can we at least send some questions for the authors to answer to help us do a good job in our translation so we all agreed to that so then comes a document about that thick asking everything about you know who's funding it what results we're getting blah blah blah blah so we all knew it had to come from the kgb so we just threw in the trash and they finally gave in and published it anyway years later a defector from the from russia came over and and approached this and said remember that big document you got i was the one that wrote the document for the kgb when we did the experiments published them in the ieee we had several series if you ever go back and read the paper now it's 1976 proceedings whenever you see visitor 1 visitor 2 visitor 3 that was our euphemism at the time for cia agent you'll see that even a series that they participated in turned out to be independently statistically significant about this time the higher-ups at cia were getting worried even though some even though fraudbuster came out and gave us a good bill he said how do i know the cia people aren't colluding with the researchers who are colluding with the subjects so one of the cia oversight people went to a different part of the agency and said pick out a target don't tell me what it is because good results come out of this i want it known that me being a monitor in the program was not involved including with the researchers and subjects so his friend at cia gave him the coordinates of a vacation cabin he had actually in west virginia and so uh we had two remote viewers engle swan and pat price ingo uh started to look at the places well i don't see much here you know i see some woods i see you know some cabins but the guy didn't realize who picked the site was it right over the crest was a super secret nsa facility ingo said well well right over there something looks really interesting it looks very military maybe that's what they want me to see so he gives all of that which turned out to match quite well we then targeted pat price on it price was a very adventurous kind of guy and so when he got there i mean he describes it like he's traveling he decided to wander around through the facility reading name tags sticking his head into a safe and a bunch of words popped up into his mind and so we wrote them all down passed them on pretty soon the entire intelligence apparatus of the country law enforcement apparatus ended up on our doorstep how did you get this information oh we're just doing some esp experiments go nami that who lead you this information it turned out that in fact it was very accurate the write-up of the experiment included this statement pat price who had no military intelligence background provided a list of project titles associated with current and past activities including one of extreme sensitivity also the code name of the site was provided they did a five-year investigation couldn't find any reason for the leak but what really saved us because suspicion was always going to be there was that as you can imagine this got briefed right up the chain it got up to john mcmahon who eventually became deputy director of cia at the time he was a division director and he said well don't waste it on our sites try a soviet site and see what happens if we get good data on the soviet side i don't care if it's leaked or what so we targeted pat price on a soviet site all we gave him was coordinates of the site and he laid out some buildings and roads and that kind of thing and then he drew this crane when he drew the crane he said i'm lying on my back on the top of a two-story building and this humongous crane is rolling over it's so big that a man would be half a wheel height and that's what i'm getting now i have to say i was embarrassed i knew the two cia guys were sitting in the hotel waiting to see the data to me this was science fiction couldn't possibly be so i went over that's i'm sorry to say but he's come up with a science fiction crane that's bigger than it's got to be bigger than any crane in the world there's the sight there's a crane there's a man i guess that's the building and they were really impressed so they came over they introduced themselves and then had him spend a week wandering around for this through the facility describing everything that he could find just to give an example here you can see them all for comparison to give an example the kind of data he got he said there