#81 Garry Nolan - UAP, Immunology & more

Transcript

[Music] [Music] oh [Music] how's it going everybody welcome back to the channel it's good to uh it's good to be here um i've been looking forward to this one so as some of you may be aware gary nolan was originally due to join me for my science panel that i hosted um last week sometime which which was great but you know these things don't always pan out so gary graciously agreed to give me a one-on-one interview and here we are so let's jump straight into it guys let's bring in my guest for the day gary nolan gary thank you so much for being here hello everybody yeah um i thought i'd love to kickstart this off just to get your initial thoughts on the recent congressional hearings and what you thought of them well i thought they were remarkable despite the fact that um you know uh an alien didn't materialize on the congressional floor for everybody um you know the fact that people were asking these questions in a public forum at that level of government i mean it really is a first time i mean people will tell me it happened 40 years ago et cetera but at least in in uh living memory uh it is a first time where you saw such incredibly well thought out questions for the people uh the two dod uh representatives um first of all and second there was a because there was the social media aspect of it there was very quick reaction to the things that were being said and as well you could just see it on the faces of the of the congress people they were you could just see it you could read their minds they were saying you're lying to us we can we can see you dancing around the questions and the reaction that several of them had afterwards in response to uh reporters and things was exactly what you would want basically was we're calling yeah we're not gonna let you get away with this and if you think is this is the last time we're going to be asking questions you've got another thing coming and you know i already know that there are additional hearings coming you know when they will happen uh not quite sure but probably within the next few months um on the senate side and as well probably a follow-up congressional one so to me that's exciting and it's a it's a sea change you know i think a lot of people who live in the let's say the so-called disclosure world um are wondering why uh you know the whole world isn't on fire about these announcements and i think the answer is twofold one there has been enough of a slow drip over the years that people are accommodating themselves to you know the fact you know you ask a lot of people they go well of course it's here so and the other thing is something i've been pointing out is if it if it doesn't change your life uh in a moment-to-moment basis it doesn't affect the cost of fuel and the you know what you're putting on your table and who's going to pick up the kids um you know it's just another fact of life now yeah um you know and so it really will only affect us when there is some sort of let's say communication i would argue that what we're seeing is communication right now um and uh that if some sort of technology uh inference comes from understanding how these things are operating right or if frankly we get a hold of some of the actual pieces of the technology and can either one prove that it is indisputably not of human origin uh or we figure out a function of one of these objects that we can replicate that allows us to do something we couldn't do before um that's my take on it that's great no i like the fact because a lot of people really were disappointed and they felt like moultrie and bray i think it was we're just either lying or holding back or just really sort of gatekeeping the information further but i saw a lot of positives from it well i mean i don't even think that they were gatekeeping or necessarily lying i think that what it proved was that they were completely not read in to the facts you know one of the best ways to hide something is to put people out in front who know nothing if they know nothing you can tell nothing that's a good point and one thing that a lot of people have been discussing is this word amnesty which i know that you were more happy using the term immunity so do you feel like that is something that will be coming do you know if it's happening or not well i know it's happening for sure um it's 100 happening it's it's i'm speaking to some people about it on the inside and the the wording is you know in the 80 90 done point you know i mean i i only i was only picking on the words immunity versus amnesty because from a legal standpoint it does have a difference at least um you know amnesty actually has a is a broader term and can in some special cases include you know pre-facto forms of immunity um but from a legal perspective you do want to use the word immunity because let's say that you're an individual who uh is thinking about all right well maybe i should come forward and then i talk to my lawyer right or i'm i'm the person and i talk to my lawyer and my and i say well they're offering amnesty and my lawyer will if they're worth the money i'm paying them uh tell me that well you don't want amnesty you want immunity because you want you know you want predestined lack of liability sure um so i mean that's the only reason for using the word because if you use the word amnesty and people who aren't let's say legally uh aware um then they go to their lawyer and their lawyer tells them well you don't you know amnesty won't do you any good then they might go back in the closet so you you just want to prime the field with the right words so that it accelerates and you don't get through a lot of back and forth that's unnecessary frankly yeah absolutely um now i'd like to just take it back a few years and i i i can't remember clearly if i heard you say this or not but what was your relationship to the atip programme and i mean atip under the pentagon with louis zondo were you associated with them at all over the years i mean i was so lou probably knew about me long before i knew about lou right um you know because lou was deeply involved all the way across and i'm not going to get into the details of of that because there's people picking apart the words in ways that you know are just frankly stupid um and uh so um i was involved with the efforts that lou was behind the scenes let's say funding or enabling or even though i didn't know that lou was there right um now i knew of jay stratton um and i knew of the stuff that he was doing but he was sort of the in-between of uh lou and um me uh you know it was jay and a few and a few others so uh you know the the reason why people showed up at my door that day uh was probably and i don't know what the specifics of it at least in part instigated by uh by liu right okay um now with atib i i mean i'm sure you're aware of eight of the atip slides and in particular a tip slide nine and there are a few points on there and i wondered if you had any knowledge on these specifically you have like a tips like i don't know what's on it i i do i could bring it up if you just yeah yeah at the moment again i'm a scientist i need facts yeah yeah no of course um let me find a high-res copy i'll announce a video bear with me sorry i should have been prepared i wrote them down but i guess it's always good to uh see the file see the image i can't find it i'll i'll keep looking but i'll say the first one yeah well the first one was cognitive cognitive human interface and i wondered if that was something that you came across at all um [Music] i mean i have spoken about it with kit a few times um you know but i i don't know really what that is about i mean if it if it's meant to imply that these objects appear to be consciously moved then that might be it but other than that i don't know okay oops i just had it this is it here okay zoom ah bear with me the next one i wanted to mention is something as well that you may have come across is i'm gonna stop sharing for a minute bear with me sorry i wasn't prepared for that the alteration and manipulation of biological organisms in with i guess that's relating to uap but have you come across any manipulation or alterations maybe before and after a sighting or an interaction um alteration or manipulation does that are you talking about hitchhiker effect or you're talking about people i guess it's such a broad term it could be anything like i i mean no i mean i you know i when i've been involved in let's say post facto analysis of a of an event of some kind um you know we bring in trained observers we brought in a trained observer and sometimes even a trained psychiatrist psychologist um to listen to the you know the let's say the experience or the witness um for basically you know looking for those emotional body cues that are either one telling you that they're hoaxing it sure um that's usually your first concern or two uh you know picking up on their anxiety you know their anxiety ticks that you can see which can be indicative of of a truth right um obviously we don't have these people hooked up to lie detectors uh anything like that um but uh it's um you know it's it's important that you don't just take people and what they say at their word um especially if you're talking about something that is uh is you know maybe more an interpretation of an observation than the observation itself this is my caa handler here i think it's become quite the famous dog online recently um one thing i did want to mention as well is in these uh studies that you've done of people and maybe yourself and your colleagues where delta theta and alpha brainwaves ever factored in to what they look like maybe before or or further down the line no that's never been that's never been done that requires very specific equipment to measure correctly you know i'm not going to just buy something off of amazon to do that kind of stuff um you know because the devil's in the details and you want the kind of equipment that will give you uh detailed analysis and you know i i mean how unless everybody's running around with those things on their heads how are you going to know when the stuff's going to show up and of course the the biggest problem with the let's say the so-called science of this stuff is that it is although it's reproducible it's not reproducible on demand yeah and so you can't necessarily have all of the materials uh at the ready for this um you certainly don't have it before you don't have it aft during and you're lucky if you can get it after um and after is you know within a time frame that you know whatever happened is still you know it there yeah it was the same problem that i had when they asked me to study the blood of these people with the the instrument that my lab had developed um that uh you know in some cases it was years after the event and so there's just you know it just there just wasn't going to be a signature yeah you know unless it was like totally drastic and and we and of the analysis we did we never saw anything like that right that couldn't be explained by just the normal noise of human variation i see right yeah what about the immune system because obviously that plays such an important part and it's almost separate or i've heard it suggested that it's kind of separate from the brain it has its own brain it remembers everything the body's dealt with throughout its life is that um come into the research at all well that was really what i was saying is that what we were looking for was some sort of uh um of a change that you would expect from normal you know i mean what is normal is a huge problem in and of itself you know because much of your immune system frankly can depend on everything from what you last got infected with to you know what you ate this morning you know and is it allergy season or not i mean the the the subtle the subtle memory that is probably the best indicator of long-term effects are the b cells in the t cells okay um and uh you know they encode into proteins literally the memory of the what we call epitopes is the term but it's really the shapes of the of the diseases that they've encountered and that's what the whole covid vaccine is about it's giving people a shape that looks like what covet is and therefore you remember it um but what my lab is known for is what's called systems immunology that the memory of an event is not just those specific things but the network of interactions of cells and the correlations across the numbers of cells and their activation states that are actually sort of a a a broader memory system uh it's uh sort of the shape of the web uh is the memory that i was looking for but uh we could see no signature that um that tel that told us anything worthwhile i you know you really need something almost immediately after um you know but then of course you need before and the only thing that you can really do with somebody's before is rely upon you know 300 normals and say well this is most likely what the before looked like and now they are significantly deviated from the before of most normals yeah that makes sense it does absolutely and i guess sometimes when you're limited on on that you have to draw conclusions like you say from possibilities and that and what would you say is the most standout results or even strange result you've come across during your studies when it comes to uap well i think it's you know it's it's more an inference than a than a result per se and this is the cognate petainment thing right i'll i'll try again to make sure people don't misunderstand what i'm saying um it was a side observation that amongst the people who were damaged that cohort of individuals had this caudate pataman um phenomenon of the increased density of neural connections and it's it was not saying that the observations or the experience caused it it was really saying that the people who came forward were more likely to have it than not um well above background levels of people who have it one in 200 now whether that is what you would call cohort bias meaning it's just people who go into this these areas of let's say high functioning um areas are more likely to have it or whether they are more likely to see something because they can recognize something for what it is and not just think it's part of the background you know uh i don't know but i use the example of the um you know in psychology class you know people you're showing a video and told to watch the person playing the bass playing with the basketball and count how many times it goes and then the gorilla walks across don't see it and you know i failed that test as i say um i was completely disbelieving that they had i thought they were fibbing but um it's uh you know i think it's an element of that that people won't necessarily see it because it somehow doesn't stand out as obvious uh you know maybe it's kind of like you know you're you're it's called the mirror test for animals right can the animal recognize that it's itself in the mirror right or that it's actually seeing anything in the mirror um or not and there's a sort of a level of intelligence and i'm sorry i'm just gonna i'm gonna make the hypothesis that people with this feature are just seem to be more likely to be intelligent right or at least a kind of intelligence you know it's a form of intelligence now when it comes to like different theories of consciousness some people think that it's emergent others think that it's like just fundamental which way would you lean more towards well i i i sorry if i sound like i'm straddling the fence i think it's both i mean i think consciousness is fundamental but that um consciousness needs to be organized and so it is emergent because the brain puts together matter in a way that organizes the fundamental units of consciousness into something which is self-aware is how i would position it um there's a physicist i've spoken about before um where is his document i think his name is burkhart heim um german physicist and uh you know he basically has a let's say a theory of uh of space-time uh sort of a a unifying uh set of equations that basically says you know one of the outcomes of his way that he thinks the universe is organized could at a certain level of organization of matter the brain certain shape etc by virtue of that shape and electrical impulses etc that instantiates an object which he basically says is both self-aware and independent of the underlying thing that created it in the first place it's kind of like some you know uh uh some mad scientists thing that they make in the laboratory and you know the technical help says no don't do it don't do it he pulls a switch and you know because they've created something that is you know runs amok you know so i think frankly that that's a little bit of what's going on with consciousness i i don't think personally that you can explain it by just consciousness by just the the neurons firing in the brain it's not all here there's something that is it's organizing something behind the scenes i think do i have any proof of that no it's just a hypothesis and it's much more fun you know to me it's much more fun to think that the world is a bigger thing than what's currently explained and because the material side of things does not appear to explain it you have to consider alternative explanations it doesn't mean you have to go all the way to the woo to explain it but it needs to be part of the solution set because you don't want to take something off the table that might be the explanation because you could be staring at the answer right in your face and you're you're busy trying to prove everything else except the truth yeah absolutely i completely agree now when it comes to consciousness as well people often talk about things like ce5 and that they can actually contact these beings or craft to come in and and show themselves but could it be possible that uap and whatever it represents is just omnipresent it's always around us and just every now and again it blinks in and it it's maybe right place at the right time more than oh i did that well i think it is i mean and it obviously if you're looking for something you know then it's more likely to be observed because you're looking for it i mean i i walk through the forest and i don't see a lot of birds but if i was a bird watcher i might notice you know i might be able to tick things off in my list of birds i want to have seen you know if i'm looking for it if i'm looking for it it might be there you know if i'm calling for it maybe that's something that shows up as well more likely yeah it's a good way of looking at it i i you know i'm i i've never done a ce5 i have lots of friends who claim that it works um well tell the truth um actually i did go up into the santa cruz mountains once with a friend of a friend actually a friend of jacques vales um and um he was a had been actually a doctor at stanford for a while um and he lives up in a cabin up in the santa cruz mountains deep into the forest up there i didn't even know it was it was in the amazon rainforest you know um and we did basically sit out one night um with uh base with uh binoculars and and whatnot and there were some strange objects moving around um that i was like that's odd you know it but it was it whatever it was it was it was subtle it wasn't like hey we're here you know here we are but um he was able to make some things happen that's interesting and that's the one thing that i really i struggle with when it comes to ce5 is that these things if they appear for people they only seem to appear at a distance and i find that why can't we just have one where oh it came right up to me maybe it has and yeah i just maybe need a rule right maybe they have protocols on their side that say you know you know the i mean let's say that the the protocol is um don't give them the evidence that they can use to show to others only give them the evidence that can that can convince them yeah the observer and maybe it's all about self-realization and not something you can put on the front page of the new york times you know but i also you know i think people are looking for a one-size-fits-all answer as if it's just one thing i i you know it's it might be that this is many things yeah and that what the navy pilots are seeing is very different than the other things that people see and i've been going back and forth with someone here in california uh trying to get um down to where he lives uh because he has one of these situations where they see something multiple times and it's one of these things that has that drops material and he sees certain movement patterns that occur right before it drops material in this case the material is a metal come on and i'm actually trying to get jacques uh i i want to bring jacques to the situation because he has i quote sort of a sherlock holmes approach to seeing things and asking questions that but it needs to be on site you know to grok and gestalt the the you know the witness and the situation i mean that's sorry to interrupt that sounds much like the council bluffs iowa case it is no and that's what i i've you know i've said a couple of times that there's several of these and i've you know i mean there are several historical ones and then there's one that is still ongoing and um that's about as reproducible a situation as i could ever hope for and it's right in my backyard um and that's the recent case yeah yeah it's still it's still ongoing um and so uh you know if it i'll go spend the weekend uh looking into it um you know it's kind it'll be a fun a fun trip yeah absolutely that's fascinating that there's a recent one that's almost similar and with regards to the council bluffs is that still being analyzed the materials from that one because i know jacques looked at it or has that kind of been done now i mean it's done i mean it's done to at least my satisfaction with the you know um well it's it's done in there was there was a singular point about publishing that paper and that was showing people that you could put stuff through a real peer review and as much as i appreciate that there are journals out there that deal with the you know the let's say the paranormal or the you know and there's a new journal coming out the you know of for of uap research and and hopefully that will get the kind of respect i think it deserves but before that occurs before they get the kind of respect that they deserve um the fact that you can publish something in a mainstream journal uh was important uh and it wasn't just an opinion piece it was a a study because you can report you can get an opinion piecing anywhere um and so it was really to show people that it can be done and here was kind of a a a pipeline or a template of how to do it now i do think that there's more that can be done on it um you know deeper analysis i mean we did i mean frankly we did an embarrassingly uh you know low level analysis of the materials um and i'll underscore the fact that this stuff is it's expensive to do you know unless you have a materials analysis laboratory getting somebody to help you do the study you know renting the equipment time doing the analysis afterwards it's somebody's time right it's my time frankly you know and um it's uh you know so far so you know you're you're talking you're talking a laboratory with about probably five to ten million dollars worth of equipment and so because you need like ten different kinds of instruments now there are laboratories like that exit that exist and you can rent time on them uh but you're you know for a full and detailed analysis you're probably going to spend about a hundred thousand dollars per per detail to to give a metallurgist or materials analysis person the kind of data that will satisfy them yeah that's right yeah i mean that makes a lot of sense why it's not just thrown around here and everywhere so yeah uh now i know initially we said 30 minutes i've just got a few uh follower questions from the chat as well if you don't mind um first one from dolan's bar and do we know if more uap are originating from the oceans or the outer atmosphere gosh i don't know that there's been a um enough of a statistical analysis i mean who's going to collect that kind of information except people on the ocean um you know and the people most likely to see it are the navy and the navy is both over and under and the the the usos let's say um you know observation of something moving underwater is as as what i found it appears to be a little bit more classified in terms of it's harder to get information out from people um because you know i think we just don't want people to know where our submarines are or what they're capable of that makes sense absolutely um you know but i mean just look at the announcement today from nasa yeah saying that they're entering the fray in a positive sense so you know you put that kind of data together with what um avi loeb is doing and his you know he's got quite a network of individuals who are on the ready once data becomes available to help analyze it um so you know i i i think it's exciting times to be living in uh is it moving as fast as we would want or is it gonna snap your fingers and everything happens no but you know more than i ever dreamed of yeah absolutely um moving on to a question here from lara she says uh has mr nolan's study looked at the changes in the pineal gland of experiences and if so what has he found no we haven't um you know the uh i mean what would you measure uh the pineal gland releases hormones so you'd have to have a hormone test you know for for that there's no um size changes that we've looked at but the pineal gland is upstream of functions involved with what the caudate putamen does so it does release hormones that change the function of the of that you know what what we've primarily been looking at now and this is a sort of a follow-on study with a group at harvard and you can find the the paper that we've already published on it um is that we've been collecting the you know look the size variation of individuals and correlating it to either psychological or pathological or physiological states and we're finding remarkable correlations between the presence or absence of certain features or network it's called network correlations in the brain much like i talked about network correlations in the immune system is the network does the does the thinking not the individual pieces um that relate to function what that individual i think is really asking for is what's called a functional mri or where you would do functional mri along with brainwave alpha beta gamma etc uh and um you know that that would tell you something about you know and then you then you of course you'd want to be looking at hormone levels and stuff like that so you know taking blood uh tests uh that would be what would be necessary but i would do that with somebody who is let's say uh let's call them an on-call experiencer um a medium of some sort right oh you mentioned mediums there and i know that there was a conversation you were talking about the celebrity medium tyler henry on twitter is that something you would actually like to analyze and look into further yeah i mean i i think he's an ex he's an extreme case of uh of somebody with something i don't know what it is and i'm just being careful i i i i don't doubt anything about how people are interpreting it but he definitely has some capability to pick up information from the ether however you want to define that either in the real or in the extra real um that is worth understanding i mean how could you not i mean it's just i i just find it fascinating yeah no agreed i think a lot of people were quite happy to see that conversation happen so i think a lot of people feel that it it's worth looking into uh one more question by my mainstream friends oh my god you're talking about mediums and hello gary's off the rails oh who cares shut up i really don't i don't understand why people feel that they need to corral your thought process uh and what you can i mean half of them you know go to church every sunday and praise some you know some old guy in the sky sitting on a throne and and then they're yelling at me you know i'm sorry yeah i'm with you 100 um so yeah just one more question if you don't mind before before we finish um johnny asks what what did gary mean by being open when talking about the hitchhiker effect what are the foundations of that idea and can that be detected in the brain if someone is more open well you know i i think well the hitchhiker effect is something that you know happened to a few people where when the phenomenon seems to occur to certain people um and then they you know they they experienced it at the ranch and then they go home um and then they start experiencing it at home and other people at home see it i just find that interesting and i i happen to know the family that this happened to and i visited their house and i you know i've seen the stuff that they that they drew of what it is that they saw i mean i haven't seen this what they saw you know and it's very credible and it scared the bejesus out of them so you know it's it's an experience do i necessarily believe what they saw was real no but i believe that they experienced it that's an important distinction right you know i call him you know jason carl velveeta or whatever his name is uh you know um you know he tries to pick up people like him try to pick up on these things um and you know say that i believe this or he believes that or you know it's like no relating the experience that other people have had um i'm not going to demean another person's experience i'm going to pull it out uh and try to understand it and try to context it in you know the other things that i think are going on to try to come up with some explanation that explains the underpinnings of it um you know it's i mean and and why not if i am attracted and people like me i think are attracted to questions that are unanswerable i'm not interested in stuff that people already know it's in a book i can find it on wikipedia you know i'm interested in things that have not been answered and so why not why not do it why not go after it because i i get my jollies out of that moment of aha of having seen uh various things and putting it together and going wow okay that's it that's all right that's great and i think that's what a lot of people like about you that you you're doing the work you you're putting in the time and uh and it's really appreciated um so we're just about to hit 40 minutes thank you for letting me go over slightly i really do appreciate it gary um i wish you all the best your audience keep up the faith you know you will absolutely will you enjoy the rest of your day and uh and yeah take care bye-bye well guys thank you so much i really appreciate you guys being here and i'm sorry if i didn't get around to asking all the questions we were very pushed for time and but i really appreciate gary being here and talking i'm going to be back tomorrow where where i'll be speaking with uh researcher david marla who uh i'm absolutely fascinated by his work so you can find all my details on my social medias all the links are in the description um yeah guys enjoy the rest of your day it's been a very busy one if you look at the stuff that came out on the debrief today if you haven't seen it go and check it out and uh yeah enjoy the rest of the day i'll see you soon take care goodbye