A Conversation with Bob Greenyer on Cold Fusion, LENR

Transcript

well I'm here with Bob grea who I've just got to introduce myself to just uh before we began now and uh he is an engineer a researcher in the field of lenr which we're going to get into I think it's a very promising field for nuclear energy we're going to get into kind of a a lay of the land and introduction to this space so thank you for joining me Bob hi David and thank you very much for having me on well very good now first tell me a little bit about your organization the Martin fman Memorial project Martin fman was a huge figure in the space right he was and sadly I never got to meet him I saw the original press conference I'm old enough to have experienced that and the sort of uh supposed Fall From Grace o of the two uh electrochemists and and it it struck me as odd at the time and I was always interested in energy but how the project came about is quite simple uh there was a little bit more noise in the field in 2011 and got interested that had no connection with each other and we took it upon ourselves to arrive in South Korea at what was then the semiannual iccf 17 so this is the International Conference on Cold Fusion or condensed matter nuclear science and this was held in uh dejon in South Korea and uh I just sat down and I listened to the presentations and I realized a number of things that uh I understood a lot of the science uh I saw that there was a lot of commonality between people's work there wasle clearly something going on that was of interest and should be further studied but the scientists were getting old and in fact sadly Martin flerman who was intending to be there had died three weeks previously so I kind of missed NE never meeting him uh well I never me met him rather and and and the people that were having some success would uh get investment and then really they they closed themselves down and on and on the flip side the scientists were um they all wanted to succeed and there was about 130 different theories which obviously couldn't all be correct and uh you know everyone wants the Nobel Prize and uh so I I I've I've been through my career I've tried to look at radical ways to solve a problem um which are unconventional and so forth so I thought well if if the the problem is right from the beginning of the get-go is there is an absence of truth that people can believe in how can you demonstrate to people in in The Wider Community uh uh that the the what is going on is real uh in a way that is accessible to them and I thought with the power of the internet surely we should be able to do this online in real time uh so that they know what we're going to do beforehand they uh could observe the experiment being built anyone in the world could comment on what should be done to uh get the experiment right even old hands in the field and newcomers with fresh ideas then once the experiment protocol and and experiment itself is built we could conduct an experiment and data stream live uh through uh online feeds of the data uh and charting and also through YouTube and people could communicate with us real time whilst the experiment is being conducted and actually suggest uh things that should be tried during the course of the experiment but um that that they would get access to the data so that there couldn't be any cherry picking of the data going on and it would be the crowd the public that could even look at the the raw data and see if there's anything meaningful in there and in fact that's what we set out to do uh there was two things that we needed we needed uh someone who to share their technology because none of us had our own technology we needed to be fairly sure that it was going to work um and we also needed the ability to publish live on the internet which it wasn't even available from the mainstream providers of data acquisition systems at the time in in in the way that was going to be affordable for us to do and it had never been done before so we called this thing live open science uh right from the get-go and we called the project Martin FL Memorial project because unfortunately he had died three weeks previously and we thought well let's call it that it's it's the right name for it and and can can we get him some uh uh sort of uh credibility um reset uh uh through this methodology and so what happened was um Franchesco an who was presenting there and had actually brought along a reactor and it was showing apparent excess heat and he had ALS also showed this a week or two before at National instruments week uh uh in America and it would it was producing excess heat there and he was very open so he he worked infn which is a a nuclear um group uh uh government funded in in the uh it Italy and he said yeah okay you can have access to my wire here is the draw drawings and we work with him and um it it was FS uh U uh Tyler hooligan uh I can't ever say his name properly um it was uh uh Ryan hunt uh I'm gonna gonna have struggle to remember everyone's name now mat Matti vat um and Nicholas shoban and myself Bob Greener uh we we set up this uh project and uh we went off and within a number of weeks we had failed the first attempt because we changed something which is a fundamental thing that mistake that everyone makes they always think they can bring something to the table but to be fair to was uh the claimant had said that they were going to uh change the uh the outside tube of the Reactor with quartz from Bora silicate and we decided to do what he was going to do next and it didn't work so when we went back um uh to his original protocol with this normal sort of Bor silic glass uh we launched an experim experiment on the uh 12 seconds past 12 minutes past 12 on the 12th of the 12th of the 12th California time which I thought was a good date and time to start an experiment and uh It produced 12 and a half% within a two days or a number of days and I presented that in in Rome um 12 and a half% what was that 12 12 and a half% excess heat based on calibration and so um that for us as a group was um it's like an is it an inoculation I don't know it's kind of once you've seen it you can't ever go back um and whilst it's not can you can you um can do you have any uh demonstrations or visuals you can show us that might like a model or or or at least visually paint the the experiment for folks who are new to this so essentially what was taken was Constantin wire and this is a copper nickel wire that's a it's 60/40 mix and the reason it's used is because it has a very consistent result resistance over a wide range of Applied uh Power um and uh it was heat treated and and and it's called Jewel heated so uh it was put in air and uh along sort of like a meter of it and then it was pulsed with uh high intensity uh Power such that it heated up very rapidly and then the pulse was turned off and it cool and this produces an oxide layer and as the oxide layer builds it folds and it builds and it folds and it builds it folds and then he treated it with uh various chemicals which are all in published papers that uh Franchesco chelani has published and then we take this wire and we put it on some mic which turns out that it might actually be active in the uh uh overall heat producing system as well as the borica glass so it's on a mic support so it's kind of like a heater that you would have you know those old kind of heaters you might have in your barroom in days gone by an infrared type of heater and in a in a glass uh case the glass in this case being borosilicate and um what we were doing is we were measuring um a the temperature of the glass on the outside and using a uh some scientific equation called stepan boltzman which allows you to calculate the uh overall power that you're getting in in thermal power and we were doing that with a control wire which wasn't this special uh specially treated wire and with um uh the actual specially treated wire in a uh hydrogen atmosphere at three bars so that's three atmospheres of hydrogen gas and so um the control produced a line and that uh was used as the basis to calculate uh what potential excess was being produced now what we saw was um below what the claimant had seen but it's 12 and a half% and and bearing in mind that if the uh hot Fusion reactor Works um in uh Europe uh ITA um then then they're never going to be creating um excess electricity uh for a very small period of time they might create excess heat but that's got a long way to go to get that to electricity and and so um this is uh a table toop thing and and and then as the uh experiments progressed we we we thought well you know maybe there's something that's changed with pressure or something so we we had like the same cell but in a line so we had a control one on one side with the same pressure and then an active one on the other side and we did a comparison real- time comparison and and when the data was shared it was all shared live and streamed on the internet and uh in a lot of cases um it was the crowd that identified important parts of the data uh for us to to look at and it was then um a year later or roughly a year later in October 2013 when we had this dual cell and one side of it had a leak in it and what happened over a number of days the pressure would drop from the operating pressure of three bar down to atmospheric pressure one bar and uh we would have to recharge it with uh fresh hydrogen and what we found was that Matthew vat in France where the lab was at that time uh we had also a similar experiment running in Minnesota in the US hunt uh up there in Pine River but the the one in front this leaking one when we recharged it with when Matthew recharged it with hydrogen what happened was we had a giga counter outside of the cell so you you had the wire then you had the hydrogen gas then you had the borosilicate glass then you had an air gap and then you had your Giger tube this was recording almost a tripling of radiation counts which took a minute and a half or something to settle back down to um a normal level and this is interesting because you wouldn't expect this to be beta particles and you wouldn't necessarily expect it to be gamma particles that shouldn't be happening not neutrons so how was this device measuring this and it did it every time when we put the fresh hydrogen in you got this radiation signal being recorded so um I was very excited by this I stopped what I was doing I flew down to France I saw the experiment replicated right in front of me we published videos surrounding that and information surrounding that then what happened was uh there's a scientist called Jean Paul babarian and he's one of the uh luminaries in the field he's written a very good book recently I can't remember the name of it but go and look up John Paul Baran I think it's cold fusion in all its forms and this book um sorry this this scientist uh took some of this same type of wire and or did a test within 24 hours replicated our finding now when you replicate something yourself that's looking like science when a third party replicates it within 24 hours that is science and so um this was radiation being produced at some form of radiation we don't know what at that stage as I said you kind of like what kind of radiation is it because it's there and then it's not and it's only during this transition in temperature and pressure um we all we started getting all of these reports from around the world of people in the field things similar in the past in a wide range of completely different low nuclear reaction cold uh condensed matter nuclear science uh experiments and and so this this was when we we got the interest of some people we didn't know who they were but they were certainly interested in helping us um and so uh that th those two things um in in uh December 2012 and in October 2013 were really um transformational uh in my own personal life in terms of you know this is what I have to do now um and and and many of the people many of the people were inspired uh to get in into the field and start taking it more seriously um so we had excess heat within our second experiment um and and we had multiple experiments after that um the then then we had this radiation now the excess heat is almost uh trivial to explain away you you can always find an excuse for why it's not even when we had it in an ice of parabolic like a two water vessels and we had a control and an active and there was apparent excess here there you know still people would try and find a way but when you're seeing radiation and you can control when that radiation occurs and then someone else a third party replicates that within 24 hours it's becoming very difficult to argue that there's not something going on that's very interesting and what we learned is that the the most important data in this field is is actually uh radiation and transmutation and uh over the last several years we have discovered in a number of system systems uh this is a discovery to us but as we have found out it's not a new thing in the field um in fact Thomas barer uh is it Thomas barer uh to yeah I think it's barer I might forget got got his first name wrong but uh he he discovered characteristic x-rays uh but at the same time he discovered this thing called J radiation and this was in the uh early 1910s I think and he got the Nobel Prize for discovering characteristic x-rays but this J radiation was uh uh higher in energy than anything that you could get from the inner shell the K shell of an emission o of a atom and so um that radiation he spent basically the rest of his life trying to to find out what it was and it turns out that we might be actually seeing this radiation and this radiation is extremely interesting um because uh I I think the first time it was observed uh was in the 1950s in Russia when they were uh producing apparently a active uh I think I I I'll find the name for you right now but it was a a plaum dyum heater and the padium dyum heater oh sorry the padium dyum heater was also creating this type of radiation that was causing um radioisotopes to change their Decay rate and but that wasn't made public um but since then many other observers have um observed this phenomena of this changing of Decay rate and uh um in I think it was in uh the 1990s um uh there was a lot of um research done both in in Japan and in Russia and they found uh these tracks um which were eventually C coined uh by um one Leonid arot which is a a Russian researcher uh when he was exploding uh metal foils in uh water of various weights um and he called it strange radiation and this radiation uh appears to be able to Cluster into anything from a sort of spherical blob to bead chains to uh things that look like um Bucky Balls uh to things that uh end up looking like a pseudomagnetic monopole and uh they actually take the form of uh almost like a sliced Mushroom on an X-ray film and it's it's absolutely fascinating and this radiation has been shown by aidz curve to be able to uh he what he did in one experiment is he actually uh he had a metal two metal foils of ion 57 and ion 57 is a rare isotope of iron and it has a nuclear magnetic resonance uh which is well known and he had this 7 of a meter uh away from his reactor uh one one at 90° to each other so that one was 90° in one plane uh sorry was 7 MERS away in One Direction and then in 90° to that was7 M away in that direction and they had a two uh magnets on one one of them was had the North Pole attached to the back of the metal and the other one had the South Pole attached to the back of the metal and the idea was was this radiation uh a magnetic charge and what he found was that when he analyzed a control piece of iron 57 sheet and the uh ones that were uh relative respectively on the North and the South uh pole of a normal magnet he found that it it positively or negatively changed the fine uh Magnetic Moment recorded in the nuclear magnetic resonance uh when he analyed it after exploding this metal foil and these metal foil experiments were fascinating so for instance in uh they they use titanium titanium has a lot of an isotope which is a type of titanium that has a different number of neutrons and protons in it well actually the same number of protons but different number of neutrons and the titanium 4 48 was very abundant and what happened was the titanium 48 was lowered from its natural ratio and other elements either side of titanium were formed so you had in this experiment both transmutation uh going on and the emission of this radiation that was able to act in a way that it looked like it was magnetic charges and that that do you have a question sorry I've been talking oh no I'm just I'm just soaking it all in so can you explain that a little bit more how it was acting like a magnetic charge can you explain that so so basically um I if you imagine a normal magnet and you split it in half the the halves will still be have a north and south to them yeah um now these structures don't appear to be uh uh real magnetic monopoles uh so you have electric charge right and that that has a positive and and negative so a proton would have a positive uh uh electric charge and an electron would have a negative electron charge and if you had a buildup of say electrons you would have a high like NE negative electric charge uh on something now um Paul dur I think in 1931 wrote a paper based on quantum mechanics and said that really there should be the Symmetry in in in out there in science where you should have a thing called a magnetic charge as well so you would have like just Norths and just south well no one's ever observed this but these clusters of strange radiation these superclusters of strange radiation they they seem to be able to form something that can act as a uh virtual magnetic monopole and there is a patent by Boyd Bushman who worked for Lockheed Martin and he found that if you take mag magnets standard like nearium magnets and you arrange them in a cross for instance with all of the souths pointing into the center point and held there with a metal framework say aluminium that is non non-magnetic and then on the cross if you take the opposite axis so so you've got a cross and then you'll put you you're taking the other axis you you put another one with a South but on the opposite side you don't have it so if you can imagine you've got the center points of a cube and on every center point of a cube you've got a north and a South but always the south is pointing to the center of the mass uh uh the center of mass of that Cube but on one side only you do not have a magnet you will get a magnetic Bean coming out of there now depending on whether you have it all South it'll be a South magnetic beam and if you have them all the magnets uh turned 180° you will have a north magnetic beam and this is like a virtual magnetic monopole and what it is is your other Pole is suppressed and the you get this beam of uh magnetic field coming out now the that's in his patent it's um it's just one I've seen the interviews with him you know he's an interesting guy yeah so you can go and find this patent so look Boyd Bushman uh mag he passed away a few years ago right yeah yes and and it's a great shame because he was very interesting character so um but basically this is a very simple Arrangement now you could have have thousands of magnets around around the axis and then you could have part increasingly small axes and there's a there's a guy called I can't remember his name but he has this thing called the primer Fields you can go and look that up on on YouTube and effectively he's taken whe whether he knows it or not the Boyd Bushman pattern and and taking it to the nth extreme and the shape that he creates are these bowls and the bowls produce a field that's mostly going in One Direction and this is essentially the same kind of structure that you have uh that's produced Naturally by uh uh magnets because these things appear to be S sort of magnetic uh the individual Quant of them um so interesting I have a a friend of mine who comes on my radio show Nam Dr waying U and he's a physicist in the Aerospace uh industry and he has insisted to me and he's made a great case that every particle is made up of dipolar Mag itic particles so he's he's got his own view of of physics that's kind of radical from the Orthodox View and he's always insisting that it's that every he does he he does not accept like an orbiting electron he thinks it's just a magnet and every you know protons electrons and there's no monocharged particle everything is a dipolar magnetic particle and they're just different Arrangements that create the structures of the different elements that we see in the universe so and and you know there's there's no reason to say particularly that that is wrong and what we know from physically doing this at the macro level is that you can create something that looks like a virtual magnetic monopole but not in the truest sense um that that there is one pole that is suppressed you can physically do it with magnets and this is the basis of Boyd bushman's pattern but what You observe in things that are of various Quant scales and they are quite physically large is that these structures form from this radiation that's comes out out of these condensed M mat nuclear reactions now let's assume you can create something akin to a monopo there is a uh paper that was produced uh which was in uh a uh peer-reviewed uh publication by bogdanovich at Al at the Moscow Nuclear Physics Institute and this was published I think it was in 2019 or 2018 but anyway um he's observed OB D these things where they have a water jet and then they do high uh uh current uh very fast discharges through the water jet to a metal substrate and then after the experiment they take the metal substrate out and they observed uh on video and captured video of these pidal structures glowing uh like plasma likee glowing with a little tail so you can imagine it's kind of like a a big fat uh um you know uh when you when you you're wrapping a quote you have like a a little character there it's kind of like like like um how should we put like a little tadpole with its tail bent yeah um it's it's kind of like that but they do assume that it is a kind of toroid and they see these things moving around under Optical microscope and glowing two days afterwards okay and these are plasma things on the metal now I've been told by other parties is that they've observed these things one month after an experiment okay H and they're glowing I mean they're on a piece of metal how how on Earth is this happening but also in those same experiments they observed these uh and this was published uh in again in that same paper they observe these clustering into crystall likee structures and uh moving around on their own axis each of the subsections and the whole thing moving around on an axis and if you imagine these structures uh moving around on a piece of metal uh they may create the kind of strange radiation tracks which we have observed which are incredibly varied they are incredibly varied and these glowing objects that they recorded on film and in fact we appear to have observed one using a standard induction coil or rather another party has appeared to have observed a similar uh observation using a standard induction coil uh sprayed water and a modified SP dark plug a slightly modified setup to get the same kind of C crystall likee structure of what they what Winston Bostic called in the 1950s plasmoids and in his Publications in the New York time not New York Times the the the the sun I think in New York and in international press he said that these structures that we've observed in the 1950s which he was publishing in I think 1957 or 1959 these structures could explain not only every scale of everything in the universe up to entire galaxies it could explain everything down to the the the finest parts of the internal structures of the atom and so um some something is going on when you have these extreme changes um in uh uh disruption uh caused by uh it's essentially what you would call a dialectric barrier discharge where in in case a spark gap the dialectric is the air and you are building up a lot of charge and then there's a Cascade breakdown and what you're doing is you're getting a lot of coherence and a lot of monochromatic formation of electrons and these cluster into these toroids and these toroids are relatively stable and one author lot Yater using Quantum mechanic calculations he's calculated that these things that Bostic observed that Tesla would have observed in the late 1800s and that uh a guy called John Hutson definitely will have observed and the people that followed him these things um these toroids which uh a guy called Kenneth Radford shoulders uh who wrote a book having tried to study what John Hutchinson had done um these these things uh according uh to lot Yater presented iccf 22 last year and you can go and see the video on our Channel That's The Martin Flashman Memorial project Channel look up Loa he calculated that it's effectively like a lightning uh uh strike but it's a lightning strike that's folded in on itself so it's a effectively a pinched plasma which is superconducting and this causes the magnetic field that's created by this pinched plasma pulls in the electrons to such a point that they get to the to such a fine level that they're effectively only stopped by the electron degeneracy of of they can't go in any further because uh the PO Exclusion Principle they can't get any closer but what you get is you get a magnetic field in that pinch plasma of 50 million Tesla wow and so when you have when you go to your have an MRI magnetic resonance imaging you know at your um local hospital maybe you need a something looked at inside your body they're typically sort of two to three Tesla okay um and you have to take everything metal off otherwise it's all going to fly in there and and become part of the apparatus and and cause it problems so this isn't three Tesla this isn't 30 Tesla this isn't 30,000 Tesla it's not 30 million Tesla it's 50 million Tesla and this produces densities because what happens is youve got this negative thing and if there's any ions around it will pull in the ions and the ions and the um the uh electrons uh form this kind of plasma it's kind of like a plasma as Bostic called it a plasmoid um and that these have a density that is equivalent to in in less calculations of a pulsar I.E a neutron star this is very many orders of magnitude more dense than the center of the sun okay now when you have something that dense you have something that if it's clustered in a certain way then you get this monopole and if you have a monopole it's been well known that if you could ever see a monopole these things will pull in electrons but they'll also pull in ions and the the um the the the density and the pressure is so intense that it can cause proton decay and proton decay is far far far more energetic than fishion or Fusion right yeah now the the reason I'm arguing this at this point in in our conversation is I've got this book here and it's uh called discover cold fusion it's just out now by Ruby carrot and Matt ho howorth uh and in here it describes something that happened to Martin fman and Stanley pwns uh a few years before the infamous uh presentation uh uh in 1989 March the 23rd 1989 and there's a little sketch here I don't know if you can see that that your viewers won't but there's the sketch yeah and essentially what happened was they had a one cc of Palladium a little Cube I think it was or sphere sphere would be more ideal but a cube um and uh let's say it was Cube and then they were loading it for say 3 weeks with uh dyum oxide I heavy water uh electrically and nothing was really happening and this is the case it takes a long time to do these particular type of lener experiments and what happened was um nothing happening they asked someone to go in and to turn the uh voltage down and this in my understanding lowers the electrostatic pressure I.E the the the desire of the dutron to go into the padium and then uh they start to come out there's there's a flux out of the padium because there's L pressure pushing it in and this causes friction uh fractures rather in the padium that causes charge separation according to Ken shers the charge separation uh creates these exotic vacuum objects the Exotic vacuum objects take the monoatomic dyum and assemble these plasmoids and what actually happened was when they came in the following uh uh I think it was on the Monday was it happened over a weekend I think uh I'm you someone might be able to correct me on that but uh the entire water container where the whole experiment was uh being held had basically been heavily displaced a euphemism for exploded um and but instead of it going in all directions what happened was the the uh whatever it was had gone through the glass of the container through the lab bench that it was standing on and made a fist sized hole in the concrete and there were particles uh the whole uh environment was uh had a suspension of particles in the air wow right and this scared them so much that they decided never to use such a large this is one cc one cm by 1 cm by 1 cm of Palladium now if you can imagine you have a monopole and the monopole uh uh gets to a strength where it can suck in the electrons and then it it can um uh take in the padium uh and the padium let's say it's going a uh uh a reason to go in there it's an iron then then uh it gets disassembled and it feeds the Beast as it were and and and that would go into the ground and it almost doesn't matter in fact my understanding now of this technology is that you to keep this thing running you need to keep it in a metal but it'll get locked in a metal because it can't move anywhere you can then trigger it to you can give it um Scala waves or you can give it sound or you can give it light anything to cause it to move around and it'll eat the matter that it gets moved to or the matter that is able to impinge on it and there was this um researcher called stanislav adamenko and he learned the Russian uh method of cold nuclear transmutation in the 19 from the 1950s method and by the late uh 1990s he had managed to find an investor and I think in 1998 he agreed to take over the um the lab out outside of Kiev the old uh nuclear isotope lab outside of Kiev in the Ukraine and in 2000 I think what 2001 he ran their first experiment and this was a lab called the proton 21 lab um and they uh had a what they call it's a dialectric barrier discharge but it's a relativistic discharge so it's reaching good fractions of the speed of light the electrons and it's a large pulse of electrons ideally as monochromatic as possible I.E they are roughly the same energy as each other and they have a a bucket of sort of aluminium oxide alumin and they have a special inductive piece of metal and in their papers I think from 2006 or 2007 they describe this quite clearly how they have a capacitor bank they discharge it inductively held it in the metal and then there's a plasma Bridge which breaks the connection the discharge path and it can only discharge through the sample and they have a sample like of a piece of copper little Spike of copper and then they they have a disc of pure copper as an accretion disc so the electric beam uh comes from this kind of flat piece of alumin and it comes down and it all gets directed like many simultaneous lightning stripes of electrons at the same high energy go into this little Spike and in the spike it explodes and they see every element in the periodic table coming from one element and it almost does not matter what element you put in right and this was R this experiment was run with something like a 100 scientists for uh um six years so 600 man years uh and every time they ran the experiment they had transmutation and they published this book you can go and purchase it it's not cheap I think it's about $170 or something it's 700 and something pages so I guess it's good value per page um but it's very well described their experiments and what they observed and this was then moved to the US and with with the former uh founder and editor of fusion technology uh um I think I'm get this right George Miley I think I think I'm right in saying that um uh yeah so and he he that is now being moved to Oak Ridge at the moment and they're looking to produce uh Fusion Energy with that technology but in 2006 on the am American anti-gravity site there was an interview with uh I think it's Tim Ventura on there and he describes this strange OB observation that they had on some of their accretion discs and I think this one was copper and they observed this thing where they were they had this thing called a secondary ion Mass spectrometer and what they do is they were firing cium 133 ions at the disc and the idea is that these come in with such high velocity They smash onto the disc and they spray off fragments which uh atoms of the material that's on there so then they use the drift velocity to work out which atoms have been uh uh uh created at that point so it's a way of analyzing your material and in in this particular instance they were they were shooting at this particular area on this accretion disc and they weren't observing any secondary ions and they thought well this is just completely bizarre there's definitely something there we can see it's there we take it out and it's physically there we can see it with our eyes and we put it into the plate why can't we see anything when we're shooting at this particular structure in the um in in the plate well what they then realized was that they were even observing the primary ions of cesium 133 and this is absolutely incredible because normally so many ions of the Season 133 get sprayed off that they cause the phosphor on on the the the detection unit um to glow and they have to turn it off and kind of effectively kind of deal it but like remove let it let it calm down before otherwise you get burning and so um they they they when they turned the the power off they noticed that in the Center of this area where they weren't getting primary or secondary ions there was a glowing spot which decayed exponentially it was emitting light or something and so so they then did it again and then turned off off the power and they saw this glowing spot so it was consuming it was consuming the matter that was being shot at it and not emitting anything wow now that can only be in my view of two things a black hole or a monopole huh and so and now there is another case of a guy called uh uh Franchesco piantelli and in August he discovered the nickel hydrogen condensed matter nuclear science experiment this is in August 1989 but in 1994 he was running an experiment in uh near nearby Sienna University with a colleague from bologna University who was a very famous nuclear scientist called Sergio vardi vicardi and this experiment suddenly started producing an unbelievable number of neutrons so many neutrons that the lab was Untouchable the the moderation uh blocks were now useless and so forth and so this was pretty scary for him now a long time later he told us when we were invited to visit him in 2015 that what was occurring was that this metal rod was ejecting protons it was ejecting protons and uh those protons were interacting with vadium 50 in the choice of Steel that he'd used to build the reactor and the vadium 50 uh causes a reaction it's a known kinetic nuclear reaction that produces a neutron so this is where the neutrons are coming from he determined that by gold activation anyway the the nuclear authorities came in and they uh you know they uh dealt with it and this particular piece of nickel rod and I I saw it it's it's about 10 cm long and there was about a 5 to 7 mm section where all of the activity was going on and uh he took this after he got it back two weeks later and he put it into a cloud chamber the cloud chamber's probably atus 40° centigrade and uh what was coming out were protons this is two weeks after the experiment had finished and he's putting into the cloud and proton now protons don't normally come out of matter you get neutrons you get beta particles you get gamma rays you get x-rays for radioactive materials you don't normally get protons coming out however if you have something like a magnetic monopole or a black Hol analog okay and you have matter going in there for whatever reason just a bit of brownie and motion and gets within the Event Horizon then you have a scenario where if you've got atoms fusing together and they want to occupy the smallest space possible well they have to be a bon to form a bonic cluster in that nucleus that that that thing that's trying to squeeze it into a very small box but if you're squeezing things together but you youve got a spare proton uh uh it's not it's a Thermon so it can't occupy that space the same as all the other bosons can so it gets spat out right and it gets ejected and and he actually has his whole patent and Technology based on the fact that these protons get ejected I think with up to 6.7 Mega electron volts and this allows you to do uh the original nuclear transmutation that was observed by cockroft and Walton in 1932 and which proved Einstein's uh theory that you can use this um and where they took a proton and they fired it into SN lithium it goes to brillium 8 which is a kind of fusion but brillium 8 is not unstable so it decays to two alpha particles which regain the electrons and become helium and so um this is one of his preper preferred ways to make uh Power you have the the nickel it's it's being treated in such a way that it it able to produce these ejected protons and those go and interact with a secondary material could be uh it could be something like um uh Boron 11 and that goes to carbon 12 so these are a an neutronic reactions so what what's happening is there is a a burgeoning understanding uh of how these nuclear systems are working um and there there are many theories that are not possible um uh there are there are many theories that are a subset of the overall Theory as I said to you when when we started out it couldn't possibly be the case that all 130 theories were correct and it may be the case that what I'm suggesting now um to you is not the whole story or is only part of the story or is a partial in misinterpretation of the story um but the the the beauty of these structures uh and there's a very uh uh key researcher in this field unfortunately he died in 2013 as as uh Ken shers did as well but he is a Japanese scientist from saporo he's a nuclear scientist and he immediately start started on this cold fusion journey and he found that uh he he would produce these Rings or these U mesh clusters and these things would produce things that would look like black holes or or whatever and he had these transmutations now what would happen was he would have a piece of Palladium and it would be load loaded with uterum he'd run experiment he would see excess heat and so forth and then he would take the Palladium he would soore it in half and inside the center of the plaum he would observe that crystals of Palladium had been eaten away inside the center of the Palladium and that around these areas which the crystals have been eaten away there were transmutations of elements okay now what would happen if you cause a proton decay well you get muons coming out and they Decay extremely quickly into a m neutrino and Entin neutrino and electron I think that I might get that wrong but it's very quick so you get an electron out which you might be able to use to uce uh you know power and you get this you may get a monochromatic neutrino which may be helpful but those type of relativistic neutrinos don't interact very well as people will know you need light years of lead um and then you have a muon and the muon can go on to catalyze muon catalyzed Fusion which mu's like uh uh much much heavier like 207 times the weight of an electron and so when that replaces an electron in a dut dyum molecule um that brings the two dutron so close together that they can fuse and that produces energy and the muon gets released and it goes on to do another Fusion so this is that the muon doesn't disappear it goes around with a lot of muon with a lot of dyum atoms uh and and fuses them so this is called muon catalyze fusion and at the time uh this was the theory of how cold fusion worked by uh one Stephen e Jones and Stephen e Jones was the person that put up his hand uh in 1989 and and uh said I think to the assembled six other scientists who thinks that this science isn't a real thing or whatever and basically put an end to the pwns and fman initial story I it says here in the comic book here that I'm reading uh it says who here thinks there is no merit at all to the ponds and Flashman process and he put up his hand like predisposing their their output and all but I think one put up their hand so he was basically in competition at that time with Pon and Flashman now the the interesting thing is right now is there's a guy called Leif homid he's a scientist that works at a Swedish University and he's observed that he can create this thing called the ultra dense hydrogen and Ultra Den dyum now you could argue how these are ultra dense I would suggest that it is these structures that I've been talking about before that causes this production of these Ultra structures but anyway when he fires a laser at these Ultra structures he gets flashes of muons that he has observed being produced now you wouldn't at the same time as muon production you will also get Pon Productions which are like the the bits out that come from the center of a proton decaying and these would go on to cause widescale transmutation just as as observed by uh takaaki Matsumoto but these um these muons he's observed them like every day of the week and there's other I think there's a researcher in Norway that's replicated this and I think there's another uh researcher in in Iceland that may have I'm not sure about that but there C working in his team and they've got a they've got a company called noren Fusion uh to look to commercialize this technology but what I'm trying to say is they've started off with dyum they've got a catalyst which is a uh I think it's um like a dehydrogenation catalyst and used to make styring and things like that this has potassium in it which is absolutely critical in many of these uh um Technologies just as it was critical to the Alchemists of what y yeah um and there's a very good reason for that and and and I can expand upon that basically he is observing proton decay and the output is muons so it could be the case that both Stephen e Jones and Pon and Flashman were correct well very good well this is so exciting because I I really I really love the story of Martin Flashman and Stanley pawns and the work that you're doing and quick when do you think I know we're fast forwarding because there's a lot more we need to unpack together but when do you think I mean knowing what you know about the field when is something going to come to market with the LR called Fusion is it 10 years out five years I think if there hadn't been such a reputation trap and and uh uh disinformation uh campaign I think it would have happened before the end of the 1990s certainly Takaki Mato was Tak takaaki Matsumoto was very close as were others there's a Russian researcher called soin that had an awarded patent that produced uh transmutation and a 2001 application that was refused by by the US patent office which produced direct electricity so this could have all happened two or two and a half decades ago I feel like we're artificial Dark Ages when I hear stuff like that yeah I know but but this is the problem it's so the idea of proton decay which is specifically named in the Russian patent of Solin that is award was awarded in 1997 with a priority of 1992 he he he describes magnetic charges exactly the same transmutations everyone's observed and he says proton decay he says it right there in in his 1992 application so this was all known in in prior to 1992 so the the real barrier here is that no one who um has really got a clue is matched up with the people that have got the finance to make it happen in a scenario that's going to allow it to happen given all the vested interests that would want to stop it wow well let's leave it there that's a very good way to leave it that's the Practical rubber meets the road part of this conversation so Bob GRE you I really appreciate your time and where can people find your work as they want to continue to follow you we'll pick up soon but for now what your I would I would go to the Martin Flashman Memorial project YouTube channel uh we have a website where we had a lot of the historical research that I was talking about and some that I haven't even addressed uh where we shared all the data live and protocols that's at Quantum heat.or and uh if you look at our uh recent videos you will see some of the things that I've been discussing um and there's there's a a killer video coming out in the next few days uh which I think I would really encourage your listeners to look out for and I want to see those glowing tal can you show me the video for that the tootal structures that were glowing and spinning I want to see that uh I can't show you right now but um I it is on um if if you look up um bogdanovich uh on our YouTube channel uh you'll be able to see the uh and gain access to the links to to the published papers very good this is very exciting stuff and we'll continue soon so thanks for your time thank you very much and it's been a pleasure speaking to you David very good thank [Music] you [Music] [Music] [Music]