Dr. Garry Nolan sits down with Ross Coulthart: Full Interview | Reality Check

Transcript

[Music] hi I'm Ross cart welcome to reality check here in North America for news Nation I've come here to Huntsville Alabama Rocket City to attend the annual conference of the scientific Coalition for the study of uaps in fact I'm giving their keynote address you might recall that last year I interviewed Dr Gary Nolan one of the world's most eminent immunologists he gave me his views on his attempts to explain and understand the phenomena the Eerie strangeness of unidentified anomalous phenomena here's parts of his interview that we recorded last year Dr Gary Nolan is a world renowned immunologist a professor of pathology at Stanford and a bio Tech entrepreneur his breakthrough biotechnology gene therapy discoveries around cancer are used around the world he's also the head of the Soul Foundation which just announced a new Initiative for UFO research and policy so this is an interview with Professor Gary Nolan thank you very much for talking to me Gary the statement of intent for soul is that you aspire to be a serious well-funded cutting ede academic research into the nature of UAP and their Broad cosmological and political implications that's a noble aspiration how do you do that though with something like uaps which is so intangible we don't know enough about it how do you even begin to gather data where do you start so I think you start by clearing the table uh putting all of what is known not aside but into a place where you can pull it back in a bit at a time you categorize first what the questions are that you want to ask uh you bring off of the table or the material that you put off the table and you put it back on by basically cleaning up your bedroom right and that's really what this is about it's a putting putting things away in the right places now but I mean the the objective is once we've put all of the data into the right categories we then say okay well what of this meets academic standards and criteria of Excellence um so I know what that is from a scientific point of view Peter skafish knows what that is from a sociologic and anthropologic point of view uh so in in so doing we say okay well look all of this is nice and it's great information and a lot of people have thought about this but how do we start to put it we will start to put it together in a way that brings it to the government cuz it's it's not about telling them what to do necessarily it's about it's about talking with them about what kind of questions they want answered and then we begin to direct them uh down I think the necessary paths there's a bear in the room of course the government knows probably far more about uaps than it's letting on does that frustrate you as a scientist hearts of the government right so we often talk about the government as a as a as a as a single entity it it's a tentacular monster right so um there's parts of the government that don't want it and there's parts of the government that do want it and actually what you're seeing most of the information that's coming forward is is from the people who themselves are frustrated that uh the information is not out there what what drove you personally to get involved with a group like Soul why why did you recognize the need for a foundation to investigate uaps because really should this be being filled by government isn't it a government no oh my God not government that's the worst possible uh thing to do um when it comes down to it uh at least you know why did I get involved uh I saw that there was an incredible amount of data out there but that the right kinds of scientists were not involved uh and uh if I'm going to get my colleagues involved then I have to help make this credible so that they can feel they can come out of the Shadows there's plenty of people people who I talk to behind the scenes who are academics you know uh mainstream academics they just don't want to talk about it yet because they feel that the stigma is still too high but that actually that's quite different three years ago than what it is today I was going to ask are you seeing a change absolutely yeah such an incredible change uh of people saying first of all well thank you for doing this how can I help you know so it's I used to get a lot of emails thank you for doing it now I get a lot of emails saying how can I help uh and so that I think is the kind of change that we're looking for because it really is the sort of Grassroots effort that's going to move this forward you know and the other thing is that you you can't wait for Daddy government to tell you what you think you already know you don't need to give them they don't need to give you permission to move forward but why we do need government is that frankly you still need the funding structures right so how is it that we create an incentive both for the people on the inside as as well as the government to release the information I mean the the incentive shouldn't be we're all at the doors with pitchforks right the incentive should be that this is going to help uh the country in some way or the military if you do get breakthroughs in your research there's always the I admit distinct possibility that you might stumble across something that somebody's sitting on in private Aerospace or government are you worried you might get shut down I mean the government does have the invention Secret y act they can shut down research if they want to if they want to then fine but they can't shut down all research right I mean what what what are they going to do tell me I can't do my work in my lab right uh I mean I'm I'm not worried about that really that's actually that's almost the least of my worries at this point right good Science is based on of course the scientific method you test a hypothesis with experiment and replication by its very nature is anything related to the phenomenon of uaps repeatable oh for sure yeah I mean look if if UAP materials exist right allegedly and then there's plenty of people who are credible enough to say that they do uh they're perfectly subjectable to the scientific method so I'm and that's what I want you know I think the other way to look at it is that the best people are not necessarily on the problem that's not to say that there aren't good people in the government who are working on this but is to say that the best people are at research facilities in public institutions around the world and we want them involved and because you know it's the the best way to to solve a problem is to bring in the experts uh and it's not that academics are come in and say get out of the way we're going to do this we know what's we know know what's going on um it's that they need to be available for for instance me if I have a question from the government to say hey we need help on this I can use my position as an academic to reach out to that individual and bring them in you know in a good way for instance I was somewhere where a person scientist of very very high status uh I I said to her I need you for what she she asked and I told her and she says you're kidding me and I said of course not you know me but I need your help um and she said okay let's talk about it how much of the problem is that there's a dogmatic ISM in establishment science to even considering the possibility that this UAP issue is real MH mhm how much yeah how much of a problem is that for you um I don't see it as a problem I mean it was a problem previously but uh I mean frankly I don't care what these other people think about uh about what it is that I'm doing with my time um but I mean it's an interesting word that you used dogmatism where's Dogma most usually used in religion so the best comeback I've actually found that actually causes an almost visible um step back from uh scientists who are challenging me on this is to say that well first of all you should give your PhD back because you've just broken your oath because you're not asking the right questions and second you should go join a priesthood you know the thing I love most about what I've seen at the soul Foundation AGM is the idea of different people from different fields of science sharing ideas MH and that's the very thing that if they're telling the truth people inside the the alleged crash retrieval program say it's not happening good science is being frustrated by secrecy well I think you know just today's conversations alone uh where you had both scientists as well as sociologists talking I mean frankly I struggled through listening and trying to understand the points of view of some of the sociologists but realized ah this is a change where I need to understand because I can see what it is that they're saying I'm beginning to understand the language uh and because they as much as scientists are part of the conversation because there's a whole swath of uh the public who really doesn't understand or doesn't care a wit about the science but they're interested in the sociologic changes that might come and so there's people out there who are experts in that as well one of the things that came up of today's conversations was the fact that there's a lot of talk about technology analysis of metam materials you did a great presentation on the the samples that have been recovered from alleged spillage if you like from objects what about witness evidence people who claim to have had experiences how do you measure something like that I leave that to the sociologists um I mean it's it's what you would call an anecdote now believe it or not in medicine there's uh utility to anecdote you can publish an anecdote but that's us usually a medical anecdote of uh of something where you were able to take all of the criteria of the individual's um Health um anecdotes are important and and they they have a place and there's actually a science of how to use those kinds of stories but that belongs in the sociologist's area I have my own personal anecdotes but that's different I can't use them when I'm talking science because the science has a particular language and an approach a methodology that and I've said this many times my Mantra it's the data not the conclusion that the data if I can convince another scientist that the data is real then I can ask them to think about possible conclusions the reason I ask is because it's a matter of public record for example Jim laty has publicly said that he was witness or he's he has direct knowledge of craft crash retrievals so there are allegations on the public record now of retrievals does it frustrate you as a scientist that if we're talking about the analysis of materials the best science would be to be able to go directly to those materials test them directly yeah well of course I mean I would uh I would give uh this tooth uh to go and see them but I also realized that there's a process of uh basically a culturing those on the inside who've had uh good reason not to have or felt that they had good reason and na how do we incentivize them to agree with us and so yeah I mean I would love to I would I'd leave this room right now and and go uh go to do it Soul's head of research Peter skafish talked about how he thinks disclosure of the reality of uaps has already begun do you agree yes yeah I mean I think there's a disclosure of uh that there's that there's something that they're trying to hide right and you have the people who've come from within the government who've said it that it's it's real and then you have the government twisting itself into pretzels to try to not uh admit what's going on and using weasel word language to try to get around what it is that they're saying um for instance you know the head of uh Arrow uh saying well we have something that we don't know what it is it's moving in ways that we don't understand and that's verifiable but we have no if it's ET well really the question should be you will you please define what ET would be before you dismiss I mean so it's a really fascinating use of language that they're using to basically play a magician's trick and so I think what and and something quite interesting this just happened right public outcry against this lack of transparency you know at the very least caused the director to perhaps move on a little bit earlier I think there is a frustration isn't there that the government's not moving quickly right right I mean I respect what it is that Jean kpatrick has been doing I mean he's put in an extremely difficult place he's clearly a smart man uh so this is no disparagement of him uh but uh I I think he also has realized that given where the conversation has moved it's time for another kind of director it's like in a company a small company I've had many startups there have been times when the CEO of that company is no longer the right Talent as the company's grown so you need to bring in a different kind of individual I think we're seeing that right now with the ideas and the research that you're doing is that you hope you might be able to commercialize some of these ideas but what happens if you come up with a new propulsion system or a free energy system well I mean my entire career has been taking basic ideas from multiple d Doms merging them and then turning them into something useful uh and then realizing that you know early on just putting it on a library shelf is the best way to get that idea to just collect dust so um that's where you leverage your energy of belief in its utility with the commercial uh arm which is basically Venture Capital money and having that we sit amidst the best of it here in uh California and the Stanford area and so I think there there's an opportunity there as well um I mean I've said this publicly you know the UAP amendment is basically either or it stays secret the it'll be a panel that overlooks it it stays secret or it goes into the public domain you know frankly I think precious little will end up in the in the public domain if certain people have their way but there's this third arm in between which is where you can incentivize with commercial activity to basically bring in the best scientists but have somebody else pay for it so is that part of your hope your aspiration for so it's going to put the squeeze on government I wouldn't say put the squeeze I would just basically say here's here's the reason why it would be a great idea what is your greatest concern um my my greatest concern in what on the issue of UAP disclosure um that oh my god well I would say the well perhaps the easiest way to say about the greatest is that it it there's some world event uh that everybody turns and has to pay attention to like the pandemic sure uh and that uh those who want to keep it secret uh don't need to shut it down they just basically play the magician trick again and it gets it gets lost because there's an opportunity right now isn't there for Humanity the potential can you give me an idea of how strongly you feel about the potential of the technologies that are being expressed at least by what those objects represent if they're real what are the what are the potentials for Humanity that come out of that one of the things that I've always liked about a place like Stanford is that I've got a lot of people around me who are smarter than me at uh any of a number of different things and areas and I love being I'm not scared that somebody else might be smarter than me so I look at this and say well there's somebody smarter than us and so I don't think that I'm going to have an anti-gravity craft you know before the end of my existence but what I do see is New Way perhaps to think about the universe uh and so I look at that as an opportunity for to learn from somebody who's more intelligent it's simple as that and you're pretty upfront about this I know you have been with me in the past you think there is something real out there and it's non-human well the evidence seems to suggest that there's there's certainly data off the curve as we often put it that there's a line uh and then there's data that doesn't seem to fit you know the circumstantial evidence basically has me uh convinced that it's far that it's well worth my time to spend looking at it because I because because you know there's two kinds of questions there's the there's the uh what you call Las Vegas question where the answer is either yes or no and if it's no you waste your time or then there's what we call the Zen question no matter what the answer is it's interesting I think this is a Zen Question Time Professor Gary Nolan thank you very much yeah [Music] thanks for watching go to join nin.com to find newsnation on your television provider and please don't forget to click that red subscribe button to ensure you get more of news Nations unbiased and fact driven news coverage