Reality Check: UFO whistleblower & Aussie skinwalker ranch scientist l Backscroll

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[Music] Good day and welcome back to Reality Check. And as we promised you, we're bringing you the fulllength interviews with all of the interviewees in our special investigation into UAP crash retrievals. And one of the three men who strongly backed the credibility of our primary interviewe, Jake Barber, in the story was Fred Baker. And Fred Baker is a highly experienced former tier 1 operator who showed great courage to step up to back the credibility of our primary interviewe Jake Barber. Fred is a legend in the US Air Force combat control and special operations community.

He served with distinction in the US Air Force's 24th Special Tactics Squadron. That's the 24th STS, which is like the US Air Force Special Forces. It's one of the elite tier one units in the US Air Force special operations. He retired as a master sergeant with 20 years in combat control. Combat controllers are special tactics operators who specialize in air ground communication, including air traffic control, fire support, and command control and communications, including in covert operations.

It's a measure of how desperate some in the intelligence community are that in the wake of our UAP crash retrieval investigation, they actually tried to denigrate a veteran of the caliber of Fred Baker. This is a man who served his country with distinction. He has multiple bronze stars. In fact, he's earned the bronze star with valor. He has four of them.

Four oak leaf clusters. That's a big deal. He's earned multiple other commendations and awards, including a Navy presidential unit citation with one Oakleaf cluster. And it's a measure of just how desperate and frantic the legacy program coverup is right now that the bad apples in defense and intelligence are calling upon their shills in social media to attack a legend like Fred. It will backfire because the tier one community is angry at how their comrades are being treated for telling the truth.

Here's Fred Baker's story of his work with Jake Barber. >> Fred, can you tell me within the constraints of what you're allowed to tell me what's the story of your service? >> Uh, I joined in 2000 in the United States Air Force uh and went into the combat control pipeline and spent, you know, the majority of my actually the entirety of my uh career in uh special warfare. >> And you're a fairly well-known character in the social media community. You're a very prominent commentator on special operations and you refer often to the unit which I take to mean Delta Force. Are you able to talk about the fact that you were a Delta Force operator? >> Uh I was not uh I was strictly in the Air Force although uh where I was uh we worked quite often with the Army and the Navy as well.

>> Right. Okay. And I I think I know the name of the unit the US Air Force unit you're talking about but essentially it was a top um special operations unit in the US Air Force. >> Correct. is >> um I understand also your family has quite an illustrious history in in the US military.

Can you tell me a bit about that? >> Yeah, quite a bit. Uh fighters and farmers was uh since the revolutionary war. First uh Christopher Baker came over um was an indentured servant. Uh was forced into the British army. Did not like him.

Deserted and went to the uh the American side and fought for uh uh the Americans under George Washington. And then ever since we we have fought in every major conflict of the United States. >> So you're obviously very proud of your service. >> Uh yeah, absolutely. >> I really like this country.

So I appreciate that my lineage fought for it. >> You've obviously left the military. When did you leave the military? >> In 2001. I'm sorry, in 2021. >> 2021.

Correct. >> And since then you've been working largely with Jake. Uh there was a stent there where I was trying to go back into the into the normal world and took a normal job and it just didn't work out. Um I didn't like u I didn't like that atmosphere coming from where I was and it just so happened that uh when I was realizing this that a phone call happened and that's when u when I took a risk took a leap of faith and met Jake. So Jake recruits people like yourself from the elite of special operations for the work that he's been doing.

Um, were you surprised at the work that you were being asked to do when you started working with him? >> That's interesting. I would say yeah, surprised, but at the same time, you kind of knew that this kind of stuff was going on. We we try to rationalize it. There's no way. Not within our country.

There's no way. Uh, but then you hear stories, especially in 2021, there's a lot of stuff coming out then and I was like, that would be pretty cool if it did though. You know, that'd make a good movie. And then, uh, and then it actually is, and it was super interesting. >> Was there an aha moment for you when you went, oh my god, this is real.

>> I don't know. I think I'm still in that aha. I'm in the age part of the aha portion of it. And hopefully it'll get rounded out and we'll have a good answer. But uh what do you say to people watching this Fred who are very skeptical and who might be thinking there's no way you can keep a secret like this? Secrets leak.

Politicians blab. Everything leaks in the end. But this has been kept very well this secret, hasn't it? It has. I ask how many secrets individual people have that nobody knows about. Um it's very interesting what you can do in the realm of you know national security and patriotism and and how far people will go to protect that to protect this institution knowing that they're doing the right thing.

>> So when he contacted you and asked you to come and work with him and his team was it a shock what you were being asked to do? It was, but it was a shock, but also because it was what I was asking for. Um, leaving the special operations community like that feels like you're kind of dumping a gift off. You spent a large amount of your time uh being trained uh to do this certain level of things and then all of a sudden it's no longer needed. Um, I feel like there there are still there's still work out there to be done that need people like us. Um, and that gift I wouldn't say is getting wasted, but it's just not it's getting shelved.

So, I was very happy that it happened. Surprised, yes, but it felt like all the childhood dreams are coming together. What What do you say to people who might be saying, watching this, there is no way this can be kept secret. This can't possibly be true because it's just so crazy. UFOs retrieved craft.

It sounds sounds insane. Maybe. Maybe it sounds insane. Um I've never had that moment. Uh very open and very very aware that I don't know everything.

I think it's safe to say that we don't know everything. Uh humans are really good at one thing and that's debunking ourselves. We think we have something solved and then years later we figure out that was that was not correct. That was completely wrong. >> Had you ever seen anything anomalous during your time in the military? >> Uh yes I have.

Just one that I can remember. Um not associated with anything but being in Afghanistan you know it's super dark out there. Guys talked about being able to see satellites like oh cool. And just one night coming off security I looked up and I saw oh it's a satellite. Was not flashing.

is steady movement. I was like, "Cool." I've never seen a satellite in my life. And then it just stopped. And then it did a half circle and then it just shot off. And I had no idea what I just saw.

And I didn't tell anybody until a couple days later where the guy that relieved me was on his night vision and we were sitting the campfire and he started talking about this thing that he saw and I said, "I saw the same thing." So very happy that I wasn't losing my mind and he saw the same thing. Um, but that was my first and probably my prominent experience when I was in. I saw some other things that I don't really believe were uh alien, if you will. One of the things that I think a lot of people will have trouble believing about Jake Barber's claims isn't the fact of a retrieval program, but the concept of people being able to psychically psionically engage with technology. Have you seen that kind of psionic engagement with craft? I believe that I have.

Yes. What did you say? So we did conduct an operation that were using those assets uh human assets uh conducting experiments to see if what they were claiming was true. Uh and we were able to get pretty close to a 90% solution that this can be done. Uh just too many coincidences. What would you say to the debunkers who would say, "You're clearly letting your eyes play tricks with you.

>> Come on out. Come on out. We'll show you." I mean, I I am dead serious. U I I'm not I am a very open individual. I like uh I like that I don't know everything.

I like learning new things all the time. Um with my job, I'm ve very intimate with all of our aircraft that exists that we know of. Um, this was nothing in comparison. And on top of that, I got an extra little bonus of something that I didn't actually see, but it recorded. Uh, it was very exciting.

>> I I actually suspect a lot of people are ready for the idea that there is a nonhuman intelligence. Let me ask you that question. Seeing what you've seen, do you believe or do you know that there is a nonhuman intelligence engaging with this planet? >> Well, I I don't know for sure. I think it's it's healthy to have a bit of skepticism there to not lead you down this you know fairy tale path if you will if there is such a thing but there's there is absolutely something going on that we're unaware of and when you do uh interact with these things they play with you or they show you show do a showcase air show or whatever they're they are interacting with with us. So, let's go through the other objects that you've seen.

Have you seen triangles? >> Yes. >> What have you seen? >> So, I was working with a a friend of ours now, uh, an asset, psionic asset. Um, and he asked me to come out. I've never done anything like this before. Uh, he met me and so this is outside of work.

It's not a military related thing. >> No, no, no. We were both out of the military at the time. Uh this is shortly after I met Jake and uh he recognized me from Instagram at this other thing and he's like, "Hey, come on out if you if you want to see this." I'm like, "Okay." Um of course I had to convince the wife that, "Hey, I'm going to go do this weird thing, you know, all night. I won't be home." Um that was the hardest part.

Uh, and then so I went out there. Um, and he's walking me through how to be able to summon them. And uh, and again, it it's going through that it sounds, okay, this is getting kind of weird, but at the same time, I'm very open. Let's try it, whatever. And he's explaining how to do this, and I'm like, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to mess this up.

There's no way. Very, very positive emotions, very loving emotions. So you're projecting love to whatever the >> that's the way he explains it. Correct. Yeah.

Or that's his method of how he does it. >> I mean, forgive me if I if I indulge this a little bit, but I mean, you're a special operations soldier by training. You know, special operations soldiers don't generally talk about projecting love. >> It's It's quite cool. >> Yeah, it was very Again, I thought I was going to, you know, mess this up.

I thought I was going to fail the whole thing. Um I I I haven't I haven't tapped in that side of me for a very long time. So I thought for sure like yeah this is just going to be a waste of time but yeah that's he asked and I was like all right well I'll try it you know I'll I'll try it and uh very glad I did it was he also mentions that they it's very different for everyone obviously but they give you what they think you need. So I was a very impatient person. Uh I can be patient when the mission dictates it or whatever but the most part I'm just really like let's let's do this let's do this.

And all night it would just keep me waiting and then something would show up and then it would peak me peak my interest. What was that? And then hours go by again and then something pop up like what is that? And it kept doing that all night until the very end when this triangle showed up and that was only part of it. That was definitely the grand show. But >> what did you see? >> So I had just witnessed something that was unbelievable to me and I turned to talk to my friend. I was like that was unreal.

>> What What did you say? What was it? >> So, the very uh the beginning of the the show, if you will, uh this thing popped up way out in the atmosphere and it started to fall and it felt like if you'd imagine putting a pebble, a really small pebble in the water and it just kind of flutters down. That's what it was doing, just fluttering down. And as it got closer and closer, it get brighter and brighter. And when it hit the the very bottom of its movement, it was the brightest thing out there. Just imagine brighter than any star you've seen out there.

Just lit up. It did that for, you know, a millisecond and then it dimmed back down and it did the same movement all the way back up into the atmosphere. >> So clearly operating under some kind of intelligent control, >> right? It it did that three times and u >> that is pretty incredible. My jaw was on the ground. And the the whole I'm saying this out loud now to my to all of us.

Like, how do you fake this? Because I couldn't believe it. It's like, how do you fake the There's no UAV or or anything that does it. There's no light array. How do you The whole time I'm just saying out loud, how do you fake this? How do you fake this? I couldn't believe it. And that's when I turned around to him.

I was like, I don't understand. Like, how do you He's like, I told you, bro. This is this is what it is. And then he's talking to me and then he stops. He said, "Oh my god, it's the mother ship." He said he's only seen it two other times.

And I turned around and that's when this massive triangle was in the sky. And please don't ask me to figure out how big it was or how far away it was. It was just uh it was huge. >> Like hundreds of feet for sure. Probably more.

It was >> football field size. >> Bigger. multiple football fields >> for sure. >> Wow. >> How far away? >> I I couldn't tell you.

Uh I was so I had already been shocked and awe with this one little thing and then now they presented this massive thing with other little things going on as well >> like what? >> So the triangle itself it was moving uh it was moving west to east very slowly. The lead point of the triangle was very bright. with the two ends uh dimmer. >> So there are lights, >> correct? There are lights on the on each of the points. >> Do they glow? >> No, there they remain the same uh the same brightness the whole time.

>> Uh they were they were white with a little hint of orange in there, but mostly white. >> Is there a light in the middle? Sometimes on the triangles a light in the middle. >> No, there was nothing in the middle. >> Noise. >> No noise.

It had uh it had little minions, if you will, flying all around it. >> Orbs. >> Yep. Orbs. It would have been the same orbs that we we see all night that just kind of float around the sky.

Sometimes they pull, sometimes they just remain the same and move. Same ones, but now they're spiraling around this thing. So really interested to ask did you at that moment obviously I think I would have had a feeling of awe but did you have a sense of some kind of psychological contact psychic contact with the object? >> I mean I I don't know because I was so paralyzed with what I was seeing. I I just could not again saying out loud how do you fake this? I could not comprehend what I was seeing. >> It was a solid object.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Let's think of the skeptical debunker arguments. Could it have been some kind of temperature inversion in the air? Was it a cold night? >> It was a cold night. Yeah, it was.

>> So, was it a clear night? Could you >> It was absolutely clear. Yes. >> So, is it is it possible that what you were seeing was some kind of optical illusion? >> If it was, we were sharing it. There were two of us that shared that optical illusion. >> Your colleague, the psionic assist, had told you that it was coming.

>> Yes. it throughout the night he said this is a good sign every thing that we saw like this is a good sign it's going to be a big night so as we know and as Jake has disclosed this is what has been happening secretly in various secure installations around the United States for apparently quite a long time I find it sad that the knowledge of this has been kept from humanity. It's beautiful. I mean, I I I don't want to sound like a hippie or something, but it's fantastic. The idea that it's possible to psychically connect with an intelligent entity of some kind.

>> Correct. And I think it's going to lead maybe potentially, we haven't talked about, maybe it leads us back to the way we were when we were in touch with ourselves. >> Well, let's talk about that. I mean, do you think I mean, I think for Jake, if I can speak for him, it's clearly been quite spiritual. It's been a transformation of awareness.

Has it been the same for you? Yes, there there have been a lot of moments like that where I where I've been on my hands and knees begging for help and then it happens. It shows itself and it's just confirmation. It's telling you, you know, I'm not going to give you the answer, but we're here. or maybe it's telling me that you can do it, you can get it. >> What would you say? I mean, one of the criticisms that's been made is that there are people in various arms of the military who believe that this is demonic, that it's evil.

>> I really don't know, but I've had that conversation with a friend who is spiritual, religious. Uh, I was speaking to them about, I'm sure we'll get to it later, but things that I was seeing in my sleep or having visions or whatever it is, and they were telling me that those are demons. You got to stop. You got to stop because I'm telling them, I don't know what to do with this. And like, you have to stop that.

Now, with me personally, I'm I'm having this battle of, you know, are they benevolent? Are they benevolent? I don't know. Or are they indifferent? Um, I couldn't tell you. But there is definitely a positive sense there for the most part with them when you interact when you get that you get that interaction you get that verification there's not a sense of dread it's very much a this is the answer for us >> which begs the question is there something that you think perhaps humanity has lost in our technological civilization that means that it's been hard for us to learn how to connect in that way >> absolutely I mean we have things to to communicate with each other that as basic as written language all the way to technology now I can send a photo across the universe um for lack of a better term makes us lazy u you know we don't exercise that that specific muscle for long enough it becomes useless um if we don't use our consciousness and our mind in that capacity for god knows how long who's to say that we've lost those skills but they could still be there >> what do you think about the fact that this is being kept so secret. >> I mean, it would make life a lot easier, right? We wouldn't be very dependent on much uh when it comes to uh what we are now. >> But is it a good thing that the public doesn't know about this? I think people have a right to know that we're not alone.

>> Yeah, I think they have a right to know. Then they have the option. They can choose to venture on that or just completely ignore it or whatever. But it's still our choice. like we should have the option of whether I want to pursue this or not.

>> So let's go to one of the stories that Jake's told us. Jake Barber has told us how he was advised that there were high value targets, Panasonic tough books containing highly sensitive information which had been stolen from the program. There was an order out to recover them at all costs. Were you involved in part of that operation? >> I was. Yes.

>> What were you involved in? What was the part of the operation that you were involved in? >> More specifically, excuse me, more specifically to what you just said to to recover those assets. >> So, there was an operation where very high up in the Sierras, two hard drives were recovered. Were you part of that recovery operation where one was found in the bottom of a lake? >> Uh, no. I was I did recover two assets but a different location. Yeah.

>> Right. But obviously without going into detail and Jake doesn't want us to go into the detail of what ensued, but it was a dangerous operation. Um, there was concern, wasn't there, that perhaps you guys had been compromised in some way. Yeah, there were there were things adding up that did not make sense. >> Were you worried? >> Not as much as Jake was.

Uh but that's due to ignorance. It once I not once I saw that he was concerned uh then yes, absolutely. >> It's always a very difficult thing for any whistleblower to come forward to speak about things that are highly sensitive. But can I ask you this? Do you think Jake Barber is a patriot? Oh yeah, absolutely. >> Do you think he loves his country? >> For sure.

>> And do you think his motives are pure for why he's speaking publicly? >> Yes, absolutely. >> There's a thing I I know a lot of special operators talk about that, you know, there are certain types of men who you would want watching your back in a tight spot. Is he one of those guys? >> Absolutely. Trustworthiness is one of the top things that uh we're looking for. In fact, we would take a mediocre performer with high high level trust over individual has no trust but is a top performer.

He's a credible person, authentic. >> Correct. Yes. So, a decision was made by Jake that he wanted to go to, and we're not naming the private aerospace company involved, but he wanted to go to the private aerospace company's director of security for whom this operation had been done to recover these Panasonic tough books. Were you part of that operation where the meeting took place? >> I was.

Yeah. >> What was your role? My role was to uh locate the individual uh to confirm his location, excuse me, to confirm their location and uh build up a package for us to pursue them and eventually meet them. >> So, you can verify basically and that's all we're trying to do here. You can verify that that meeting took place. >> Correct.

Are you satisfied that there is still a an open question about who was responsible for what happened that I mean let's let's call it a dangerous incident. >> I believe there I I don't know if we'll ever get that answer. So yes, it's still open. >> Yeah. I mean it's legitimate though to be concerned that the safety of Jake and his team was in question as a result of what had happened.

>> Yeah. It it's it's pretty unsettling that it can get that far that someone can ask you to do something just for the mere fact of setting you up for something else. >> So you feel you guys were set up as well. >> It seems to look like that there. There is again a lot of coincidences.

>> Do you think it's possible somebody wanted you guys dead because you knew too much? >> I don't know that. I can't confirm that. So, you were also part of an operation where, as Jake has described it, the question was, has a whistleblower that's got these tough books gone to the disclosure advocate on UAPs, Dr. Steven Greer? What was your role in that operation? >> Uh, just merely transferring information to to and from. >> Right.

So, you met Dr. Greer and conveyed information to him. >> I did. Yes. Right.

>> And can you tell me what happened on your return from that exchange of information? Yeah. So, it's interest So, it's just a simple drop off, you know, here you go. Nice to meet you and be on our way, but he actually took uh an interest in me. Uh I don't know if it was me specifically, but potentially Jake and our our group and he just wanted to pry a little bit, but he he uh asked me some questions and we had a little bit of a conversation and went our separate ways. And uh I drove straight home from there about six hour drive or so.

Um, and when I got home, everyone was in bed and and obviously I'm tired, but I was not exhausted. I had enough energy left to get something to eat real quick, get a shower, get to bed. And it as soon as I laid down, I I as soon as I laid down, closed my eyes, I was in something. It was It was very interesting because I was still very aware of my surroundings. I could hear the fan going.

Uh my wife's sound machine was going. I could I I knew that I was in this moment. I was not asleep off in dreamland. And I was immediately in this. As soon as I closed my eyes, I was in this thing.

And it very much looked it was black and white. It looked like if you were running 100 miles an hour through the the woods, just black and white, branches going all over the place. And I could feel that I was there. And I was very excited, but somewhat confused. And then all of a sudden this white circle uh showed and it just started opening very bright white and I felt like I was pushing through something and I was getting really excited.

And then when I came through I saw this little boy that was in like 1920s 1930s garb the the the coat all wool coat with the the vest and tie. He had the wool shorts. He had the the ankle high boots on. He had that floppy cap on. I was like, "Oh, this is cool.

This is really awesome." And he's he's looking right at me. And I actually focus on his face and he's terrified >> of you, which terrified me. And I can see the background. It's a It's a dirt road with the the street corner. Look like a tea intersection.

>> So, this isn't a dream. >> No, I was there. It's real. I was absolutely terrified. Have you ever heard of the term remote viewing? >> I have.

Yes. >> Have you remote viewed? >> Not that I know of. >> I'd like to have an answer on that thing, but uh no, I I I haven't officially tried. No. >> So, it raises the question, what was it about your meeting with Dr.

Steven Greer that prompted that experience? Was there a was there a correlation, a causation? Do you >> I didn't I didn't correlate any of that. Uh, I just had this thing happen to me and then the next morning I'm trying to trying to reason with it and I and I just, you know, brought up to Jake, texted him about it and said, "Do these two would these two come together at some point?" Like I I they're two separate incidences, but I feel like there's something going on there. Now, I understand you're part of the Skywatcher team that's going to try to provide the service that's being done secretly in the military in private enterprise. >> Correct. Yeah.

>> Are you excited about that? >> Always. >> It's always exciting. It's always something different. But yes, >> from what you've seen, will it work? >> Seems so. We've had we had some pretty good luck, if you will, so far.

But uh interesting enough, it seems that a lot of these things that people are talking about is true. >> The implications of what you're saying though, Fred, are absolutely mind-blowing. >> Good. Good. Let's do it.

Let's rattle this thing up. Get us out of this uh you know, day-to-day mundane stuff and let's get to the next level. >> And you think that's what we can do by doing this? >> Seems like we can. Do you know it's funny? There have apparently been some people who've done the wrong thing, some bad apples along the way in the course of keeping this incredible secret that we're not alone. But the thing I find is perhaps the biggest secret is the most exciting one.

That it's possible for all humans potentially to do this. That we can all learn how to do this. And it's fascinating to see how touched you are and Jake is by what is obviously quite a spiritual experience. >> It's very exciting. It's it's it's something that will change us for sure uh for the inevitable future and probably in the right direction to get us away from uh starvation and war and need for this and need for that.

But we're getting back on alignment to what our maybe what our true purpose is. I mean, tell me if I'm taking this too far, but I mean, you're a warrior. You're a trained warrior. You're an absolutely elite soldier at the top of the American military in your time. There's a message here, and it's fascinating because to hear a a warrior talking about love being the way that you communicate with these objects is just mind-blowing.

It took me a long time to realize it, but we shouldn't be fighting wars for the fact that we hate uh a specific group of people, even if they're evil. It should be out of respect and love of what's behind us. So, you know, having experienced both as a as a kid, basically knowing that I I hated these evil individuals and we needed to kill them, that didn't set me on the right path. And it took me too long to realize I I shouldn't be doing this out of hate. I should be doing this out of the fact that I love these people, these innocent folks.

And and yes, evil shows his ugly head, but we can take care of that and continue back on our true purposes. You got kids? >> I do. >> What's your hope knowing what you know now about this phenomenon? What's the hope that you have for your kids? This is probably one of my top purposes is for them. I want to give them the better life. Who who parent what parent doesn't want the better life for our kids.

And right now all I'm seeing is the same. I'm going to give them the same life that I had. Potentially going to war, having to pay rent, whatever it is, it's the same same thing. So you told me that your family has a very proud history right back to the Revolutionary War in fighting as warriors for America. Is it your dream that your child might be able to do this engagement with the phenomenon in a loving and peaceful way and maybe break that mold? >> Absolutely.

I don't want my kids to end up where I where I've landed. Um and now I'm fighting another battle to get back to, you know, my humanity. Why have that why is that a necessary thing? Let's just give them the humanity that they should always have. >> Final question. I'm sure there are still people watching this going, "These guys have all gone crazy.

You know, he may be an elite soldier, but clearly he's nuts. This can't possibly be real." What do you say to those people? Have to think about that one. I don't think it's very far-fetched to I mean it's the the movies that we all love to watch and the books we all love to read is that happy ending where everyone is coming together where everyone realizes that love is the way and most of our religions are based on that and finding a center and finding a a better world for us. Why is that crazy to think about? So there really can be a happy ending. >> Absolutely.

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Together, we have the power to make as many women reclaim a youthful look as possible. Go watch the video at bhm numeral1.com/ros right now or just click on the link in the description box below. [Music] Hello and welcome back to Reality Check. So, I've had a long interest in the northwest of Australia. I start my book in plain sight at the place called the Harold E.

Halt Naval Communication Station, which is a very mysterious former United States facility, now an Australian facility that actually communicates with American nuclear attack submarines in the Indian and Pacific oceans using VLF, very low frequency radio waves. And the thing about this whole area is that it's been a hot spot for a very long time of, how does one say this politely? anomalous objects. And adjacent just to the east of the uh Northwest Cape is a place called the Pilbur Desert, a gigantic squathe Western Australia, rolling red desert country that to the Aboriginal people there is beautiful and also deeply mysterious. When the first settlers came to as colonists to Australia in the 18th century, they were puzzled by what became known as min men lights, orbs, glowing spherical orbs drifting through the art black. And the fascinating thing about it is thatund and something years on we still have no answer to that mystery.

Well, our guest today is Dr. Andrew Morgan and he's a Kiwi like myself and he's also a uh person who's got extraordinary scientific qualifications and he's taken a very very close interest in the whole subject of UAP's anomalous phenomena across that part of Western Australia. And what he's uncovered is actually quite fascinating. It's a poke in the eye for those people who constantly say, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah." if there really are UFOs and NHI, why do they only ever show themselves over cities in America? And that's not true at all. I just don't think we've been properly looking.

And I often think the only way we're ever going to crack this mystery is by sciencing it. And that's what Andrew is doing. He's a scientist. He's a teacher in science at a at a school in Western Australia, but he's got a very illustrious background in studying of science. He went to the University of Oakland, did an undergraduate degree in zoology, completed his Patty dive master qualifications, moved to Queensland in Australia in 1995, and did a master's in marine science at the University of Queensland in Brisbane.

Returned to New Zealand at the end of 98 and did a PhD in environmental and marine science at the University of Oakland. He was commissioned as an officer in the New Zealand Navy. Did his basic training, bridge watchkeeping, and vessel safety over two years. joined the active reserves in 2007, taught marine studies at the Bay of Plenty Polytenic in Talonger in New Zealand for 5 years while also consulting to the fisheries and aquaculture industry and he moved very sensibly to Australia in 2012 with his family and he consulted in the offshore oil and gas industry for 5 years is as an environmental adviser in exploration, drilling, planning and approvals and he's now the honorable profession ition of teaching in science I presume Andrew is that correct? >> Uh yes thanks Ross. Yes uh career science teacher so I've been 30 years in science now and back into the teaching profession again.

Now, the thing I find very brave of you to admit because it's very controversial for a scientist is that as well as being a scientist who's endeavoring to study anomalous phenomenon, ever since you were a child, you've been what is politely called an experiencer. You you believe that you have had encounters with NHI, with a nonhuman intelligence. Can you tell me about that? Yeah, that's a it's a lifetime experience and um I'm very careful about the the vocabulary I use as a scientist and I've written a book on it now too which has made me go back through my life and and look at all these patterns and occurrences uh with with entity interactions and all the common vocabulary. uh dreams, visions, astral projection, billocation and and that sort of phenomena that um no one ever talks about uh because of the stigma attached to it. What I wanted to do was say look here's a here's a career scientist um 30 years in science wants to understand more about how this has impacted his life.

I mean look at um professor Gary Nolan for example he's a he's an experiencer as well. So there's a lot of these people in very high up in their professions coming out and talking about this now. And I think we need to have a conversation about understanding how this impacts people's lives and what it all means. >> So what does it all mean? What were the kind of experiences you had? Let take me back to some of the earliest experiences you had as a child. As a child, I'd say at seven and n years old, I had I suppose it's a typical childhood experience of what they call little people in your bedroom.

Uh that I had twice when I was seven and when I was nine. Uh and back then I've got no concept of what UAP is, what NHI is. As a child, you don't. It's just a a novel experience, unusual, and then you put it in the back of your mind through your life. And it's only later on as a teenager where I have these really vivid experiences uh in my room.

Uh and I've always been able to remember my what I do when I'm asleep. It's I suppose it's a little bit unusual because I've been able to go back and recount and remember these experiences of being conscious while asleep and out of out of your body taking places uh when I got older uh and more recently that turned to in into even craft entity interactions um as as well. >> So you you've actually you believe you believe you're a classic abductee. you've been taken from your bedroom at night and and taken somewhere else to a craft perhaps. >> Yeah, I've cuz I had did did a bit of research on this cuz I didn't understand it myself.

Um because there's there's the physical phenomenon of that that you read a lot about. But then there seem to be some connection with consciousness uh and people are talking about how consciousness is is not your character and that that can be separated from your body physically. So I've gone more down that avenue and researching uh and talking to people about about how that works. Uh so that part of you can be taken places and then and then you come back. So science it for me.

You're the scientist. You're the guy who works on the kind of empirical scientific method. You believe clearly that what you've experienced ever since you were a child is real. that it's not some kind of hallucination, some kind of psychosis. Why do you believe it's real? What is it that has given you that confidence that you're dealing with something that is in fact nonhuman intelligence, NHI? >> I suppose I suppose the confidence comes from from my maturity uh in thinking over over 30 years in science and and understanding the science of consciousness.

Um because it's repeatable one, it's the thing is is it measurable? Uh yes, it's repeatable and there are common there are common themes through your life around uh the types of experiences and visions and even even places that you seem to be in and circumstances whether that's uh they call it flying dreams and they can often be in the same the same place or the same circumstances. There's um uh interaction with sometimes that can be interaction with a craft. Uh and I've I've I kind of in my book I classify them into different experiences. Normal normal dream processing which I've read about you know you're processing what happens during the day. Uh you may or may not remember that.

Then there's uh visions uh which are they could be precognition or of something that hasn't happened. Uh then you've got your out of body and astral projection uh which is going places. And then from there, the other one that I've come across is is the interaction in your room at night where uh you're you seem to be they I suppose they call it paralysis, sleep paralysis, and something's going on. There's a presence in the room. You can't move.

And what what I tried to understand is fear. Uh there's a lot of talk in consciousness studies about overcoming the fear of something that you don't know. And that once you can seek to understand it, you have more freedom to interact. And I've found that in in my older years, I've got more freedom in these circumstances to question, to interact, and to ask what's going on. >> Is it hard to speak about it? I mean, do there's a lot of stigma associated with saying that you've been abducted or that you've had interactions with NHI.

Are you concerned about blowback for talking like that? >> Uh, yes, yes and no. I think I think we need to develop the vocabulary because uh there's so much pop culture around UFOs and UAP even the word anti-gravity that was coined uh because they didn't understand what they were that what they were looking at. So, I'm trying I try to avoid the pop culture terminology terminology and and facilitate a discussion about the science behind it all because I believe I believe there's a science that connects all of this from UAPs to UFOs to consciousness studies to experiences and what they experience. I I think there's a whole and if you go back through ancient history, the ancients certainly document a lot of this stuff and had a deep knowledge of it from from what I can gather. So, uh, we need to have these conversations.

But, >> you know, the thing I love most of all is that your your mission, if you like, took you to one of my favorite bits of desert. It's beautiful country, the Pilra Desert. And I I think this all started to really happen for you, did, didn't it? When you were at a place called Newman, which is a mining town in the middle of the Pilra Desert. >> Yeah, that that's right. About five years ago, I took the opportunity to teach up there in science in that town.

Uh, and that's when things did take off by myself up there, coming back to Perth and the holidays to family. But, um, I had the opportunity to go camping uh, out there and also talk to indigenous people and locals at the pub and all that. And if once you get to know people, they they say there was some strange things happened up here. And there's some very interesting dream time stories as well. And because at the time I was writing a uh a novel series uh which places reverse engineered UFO technology in the deep sea mining industry, I was researching the topic and I went camping uh in Karagini with a telescope and I was looking around at the night sky and I just had this sense that there's a lot more to see than than just the the light the light spectrum, the visual light spectrum and I need some more gear.

So, I went and thought, I'm going to invest in some infrared uh digital camera. And then, so round two of my camping trip, I set up to do what I was going to do at night and and tested my film and that. And then after dusk, I was filming uh the sky and then the horizon. And what do you know, as you said, orbs appeared in my field of view. >> So, let's talk to one of those images.

There's a there's a beautiful image that you've sent me on video that you captured of it almost looks like a sun. It's a solid white spherical object moving very slowly tracking past trees presumably right in front of your campsite and it moves across open sky across trees again and then disappears out of sight. Was that one of your first classic sightings of the spherical orbs that you see in the outback? Yes, that was that was before I developed all the the field methodology to to apply the scientific method. I was just scanning and that was one of the first ones I saw that came right past me where I was filming uh on my first trip with those digital binoculars and that's what inspired me to get other gear. So, I went and got an electric magnetic field intensity meter, uh, a Geiger counter, and another gear.

And I I'm you'll probably talk about this soon, but I got in contact with someone I could, uh, trust to talk about how we develop the methodology in the field uh, to collect reliable and repeatable data and have a data data-driven program of research up there. >> So, that's what I really like about your work. You remind me a lot of my friends John and Jerry Toesco over in Long Island, New Jersey, who are currently dealing with a plague of a swarm of drone UAPs of some kind hovering over over the east coast of the United States. But, you know, they decided in their retirement years that they would science the subject of UAPs. And boy, did they find some interesting stuff.

And what I love about you is you've done the same. And you've teamed up with a guy called Brian Tyson. What what can you tell me about Brian and what role does he serve in your research? >> Yeah, that's right. So, several years ago, uh when when when I had this first field trip, I was hunting around for someone I could liaz with that didn't have uh an agenda uh was not interested in in in owning any of what I was doing, but would help out in the capacity that they could. And in his particular role, he he had a personal interest in UAP.

And I hooked up with him through my uh social media channels uh cuz I saw him commenting on UAP. And I just mentioned that I had this project going on uh in the Pilra and was he interested in looking at um like you a little bit of footage and some images and he said, "Yeah, happy to help. I'll have a look." And then the relationship evolved from there professionally and personally. and he became a key advisor on scientific methods uh interpretation, a bit of speculation, what we need to do to develop the research into the future cuz I I only had a self-funded budget. So, we came up proposals and and funding proposals for how we might expand that into the future.

So, he's been he's been quite key in the background and and wants to remain in the background due to the nature of his job and his work, which is fine. Uh but yeah, he's been a key player. >> And so one of the things h have you you've had papers published, haven't you? >> Uh we we self-published on research gate. Now that's an interesting story because we did submit to a journal uh and waited the six to eight weeks for the first lab paper to be reviewed, double double blind review. So, one reviewer came back positive, published with minimal uh corrections, and the other reviewer just focused on one thing, and that was the camera's only filming at 30 frames per second.

I can demonstrate they're all artifacts of filming. And so, the journal rejected the paper. Uh, and which means the other two papers we didn't even get to um have reviewed. So, what we did is we published them as research papers through research gate attached to our our lab, which we just call energycape. So they're they're published self-published on research gate.

Now >> let's deal with that. Firstly, um is 30 frames per second filming a liability for you scientifically improving your thesis? >> Uh yes and no because we should have a frame rate of about a thousand and Tedesco and Tedesco will would tell you that as well. But to compensate and I even say this in my research paper to compensate we looked at reli reliable repeatable measurable uh datadriven approaches over multiple times. So going back doing the same thing over and over and over again. >> So your your point is is that if this was a camera artifact it would occur incidentally.

It wouldn't occur pretty much all the time. How often are you seeing these objects that you call orbs and rods? >> Uh, every time we go to the same at the same site and do the same the same same standard pattern of data collection, the um intensity and the numbers of them might vary, but they're always at that site. Uh, we think uh talking to Dr. Tyson that it's connected to some sort of temporal or interdimensional anomaly at at the site as well. So, but to measure that we need more gear.

I mean, we've looked at electric magnetic field intens intensity. We've made correlations between the manifestation and intensity. >> Let's deal with that because you've mentioned a geer counter and you've also mentioned an EM detector. Let's talk about electromagnetic energy. Did you notice anything anomalous about the electromagnetic energy in the area where you were? >> Yeah.

Um so there are naturally occurring mag anomalies and there is with the Halan lights as well uh in Norway and we found that there was a buildup during the day in the middle of nowhere. There's nothing around that could there's no high voltage power lines we're away from anything that could generate the voltmeters and microteslas um that you would associate with suburbia. uh and that would build up to late afternoon. And then we found that the the intensity of the manifestation of orbs and rods had a correlation between zero and one with the intensity of the electric and magnetic field build up during the day. Now, I'd like to get more data on that because we only we had four data plots on a linear regression graph uh to get the cor a strong correlation.

So, we've got more work to do, but there's certainly an indication that there is something anomalous going on there. >> So, can you say that the the electromagnetic radiation that was anomalous, was it causitative or correlative to the appearance of the orbs and rods, do you believe? >> Uh, we posed a number of different theories on that. So, the key at the moment is not to say it's this or it's this or it's this. We posed several different theories and one in particular was to do with um energy coupling or energy cascades in the area because we got I think it's called pisio uh electric uh naturally occurring phenomena as well where you can get really small natural orbs um from the buildup of uh electric uh and magnetic intensity in in the atmosphere. So there's that as well, but we think that masks this other UAP phenomena as well, which could be a life form extension.

It could be technological. It could be hiding there. We simply don't know. >> Before we get into the life form issue, um, you also mentioned you had a radiation detector. Did you pick up any anomalous radiation? No, it's Yeah, the gamma the gamma radiation was on the same meter and I I tested for that and it was always baseline background levels and I think it's because you'd need to be right near a an actual object or an imprint or or physical trace for that for that to register.

So in terms of background levels, not above them. >> So paint me a word picture. I mean I love the Pilra. It's a beautiful part of Australia and the funny thing is the great mythology about Australia is we all walk around with big hats on and walk around the outback but very few Australians ever get out there and it is wild country. Uh paint me a word picture of where you are.

It's big red hills covered with scrub and blooming hot during the day. >> Yes. Yes. You go you go in the dry season between April and September because it simply gets walking around in 40° it's very difficult. Um yeah, it's Baron.

So Carajini uh National Park is where we are for the fieldwork. Uh so it's red rock and dirt. Uh lots of termite mounds, short bush and shrubs and and grasses. Lots of canyons. Uh gets down to freezing at night.

Uh so there you got gorgees and canyons of water. Um beautiful landscape during the day and at night. uh I found in in the area I was working and I did some you know field work at nighttime getting up in the middle of the night quite quite creepy because it's deathly silent almost not normal there's not no insects no birds uh extremely quiet and a little bit creepy when you're sampling and recording the stuff going on around you cuz you're ready for something to pop up in front of you and go oh my god where did that come from? Um, so I found that quite unusual as well when I've been out to night at night in other areas where you've got background insects and the odd bird fluttering. I mean, I did we did debunk some of this. We looked at um camera blurring.

We've looked at and I've filmed and recorded four different types of organisms in infrared and we know that they are organisms because we did a backbound re some backbound research on our nocturnal flyers up there. So yeah, very very desperate isolated place. So, do the Aboriginal people in that area, do they talk about anomalous portals or or objects themselves? Is there anything in their mythology or their dream time stories about this kind of object? >> Yeah, that's that's interesting. And there's a couple of things there cuz Newman Township uh the swimming pool there is built on top of a dream time story cuz the Aboriginals to make it rain up there. They had a rain dance and apparently where the swimming pool is there used to be some rock um big huge rocks in their dream time story and they would dance around them and apparently these rocks would split open and a light would shoot up shoot up into the sky and then it would rain and to to me that was a UAP story.

Uh I you'd probably have to ask the elders about their interpretation of that now from their dream time. But that's just one. And then I had a an anomalous experience up there with a a uh an elder that had passed on when we went camping somewhere overnight. And I asked a um a indigenous person about this experience of being my sleep being interrupted in my consciousness by an indigenous elder. He said, "Oh, they probably didn't want you there and you shouldn't have been there." So I took that as advice not to go camping back there without actually asking to be there.

So, let's go into the detail of the orbs and rods. You've written, you and Brian, a fascinating paper that in my view presents pretty compelling evidence that you're seeing something that is actually intelligent and responding to you. Can you explain why you think these orbs and rods are intelligently responding to you? Yeah, because we've got a huge archive of of video footage and done extensive analysis in and frame by frame analysis and and video clip analysis uh in a radial manner uh around the the cardinal directions. And we found that they demonstrated object avoidance uh so that's whether that was an obstacle that they they would turn on a dime uh in in instantaneous acceleration as well. So some of the five observables are camera recognition or being filmed in infrared.

Uh they they would come into the field of view and then turn and try and move out of it uh pretty quickly as well. And same with the observer. >> Can I just for a moment just interrupt you there? Okay, let's just try and think about that. An infrared camera itself is not emitting any energy, is it? To try and capture the images that it's capturing, is it? Yeah. Well, you Yeah, we have in the 850 nanometer spectra.

So, Cap, there must be something about that spectra that interrupts some of the I think it was orbs. Orbs did it, not rods. The orbs would do that. And then I found in one very interesting one where I was filming an orb and trying to track it as it moved up into the sky. uh it would try I would move to the left or right or up and down with it and then it would move very quickly backwards and forwards as if it was making fun of me trying to trying to track it.

So that >> there is a there's a trickster quality to this phenomenon. >> Yeah, there was a there was a trickster and that's that's been um mentioned in in other studies as well. So there was that. So there's object avoidance, there was some of the five observables, there's avoiding the camera, avoiding the observer uh as well. So words in your own words what you think this is intelligent can you explain to me uh you believe that this is intelligent >> we think yeah we we think there's some form of intelligence now now what what Dr.

Tyson and I came up with was a a little table that looked at that as to whether that represented a life form extension and or an extension of an ecosystem phenomenon that's not in the visible spectrum whether there's some sort of mixture there of naturally occurring and technological because we we've been speculating that these places with magnetic anomalies are good places to hide if you're NHI as well. So whether there's some biomimicry there uh so there's a technology that mimics natural phenomena and I talk about that in my papers as well uh and how that can be because these rods had counterrotating spindles around them because there's no there's no airframe like Aleron's fuselage um there's no wings like organisms but there were these counterrotating spindles in our digital analysis going around them and some of the orbs had bisected rings as well and yeah So it's very interesting. >> So you saw differences between the orbs and the rods. They don't behave the same, do they? What are the differences? >> So the the the rods have extreme velocity instantane in instantaneous acceleration uh turn with no inertia. Uh and the orbs and and predominantly the rods move in straight lines.

Uh we did see them avoid objects, but the orbs were more erratic. So they were slower, still still quite fast, slower. Um turned without inertia. Um but they tended to investigate more. So there was different types of orbs.

There were orbs that didn't seem to investigate what was around them, and there were orbs that just moved through the field of view. And the ones that investigated uh were able to turn instantaneously. Uh no inertia. So all of these objects uh were able to overcome inertia and demonstrate some of the five observables. >> You know what I find amazing about this Andrew is if what you're saying is right and if you can exclude the probability that these are artifacts inside your camera that are doing these effects.

You've found another form of life. >> Yeah. Uh yeah I did talk to Dr. Tyson about that about because one of the things with the life form extension and and I said well do you think it's sentient as an as an intelligent an intelligent organism and not just like um an animal uh is intelligent but actually capable of of of thought or thinking or some or some level of consciousness. But what what what he did say and what I thought was if this is a temporal anomaly, it could also be a silhouette of something that we don't have the full manifestation of in our own dimension.

Uh so we've been looking at that as well. >> So this is doing my head in. So you guys are theorizing that where you were filming in the Pilra Desert, Kareni National Park, there might be some kind of interdimensional portal that this life form, these orbs and rods are coming through. And and just to get my understanding of what you've just said, the reason why sometimes they appear translucent rather than solid is because they might only be partially in this dimension. there might be shadows of themselves from the other dimension.

>> Yeah, that that's one of the theories, one of the several theories we've got. U and I called it the looking glass effect because when I was filming, there was this perfectly still still still night. There was no wind, no breeze, no fog, no clouds, no no um fog coming up from the ground, but there was this haze uh quite quite a few times through through the footage, and it's not there when you're looking around. And in it was um what I call ghosting orbs that yeah it was sort of translucent and then there were the solid ones that would come out of that and be moving off and around. So that that was >> you say solid.

Were they solid objects? Do you think do you think you can say definitively that they were solid objects? Uh yeah, that's uh no no I wouldn't I wouldn't say that we've come to that conclusion because we don't know whether they're they're plasma uh whether they're uh they've got a structure to them underneath that because I said to Brian, what if they're actually harnessing the energy that's around them uh and not creating it themselves? >> But plasma itself is a solid because it shows up on radar sometimes, doesn't it? >> Yeah. Um yeah. And yeah, if we had the technology and some more instrumentation uh because that's one of the things brought up about our research papers is is understanding more about not just the the morphology of these objects but the underlying structure and how that plasma uh is generated. So whether they're generating internally or externally, yes, it's still a fourth state of matter as a as a light as a light bulb or a rod with a plasma around it. Now, the thing I find really shocking about this is because you can't afford a camera that can shoot a thousand frames per second.

That's the only reason that you didn't get published in a peer-reviewed journal that would give you the opportunity to publish your good science in a journal that might give you the approval, if you like, of the scientific community for what sounds like a potential discovery of a nonhuman intelligence. Yeah, I think yeah, it's um >> I find that incredible really when you think about it. The implications are extraordinary. I mean, we're spending hundreds of millions of dollars on SETI, you know, trying to communicate with radio signals across the universe. From what you're saying, you you you are hypothesizing and still working obviously on trying to prove it, but you've got a pretty solid basis for a hypothesis that what you are exploring is another form of life.

Yeah, I think I think we have the beginnings and the groundwork um to do that. And I think um the key is application of the scientific method. And yes, cheap yes, cheap gear, but cheap gear done well, cheap gear done well is better than expensive gear given to someone that has no idea what they're doing and just films and there's no methodology. I think the key here is methodology uh scientific meth methodology and hypothesisdriven research and yes we need funding to to prove or validate more what we're doing but u being rejected from a journal for I I mean I have to stay professional I can understand from this physicist perspective that he has concerns but there was another reviewer that said we should publish this as something here uh and move forward because we're not I think when you get a reviewer looking at one journal article, they don't see the other two papers that are coming after it. They don't see the hundreds of hours of video footage and stills and every they just get a summary.

Um, so in staying professional, yeah, I understand that and there are ways to self-publish now. And it's I think you know this whole publish or perish thing needs needs to be discussed more at universities as well because it's all tied to funding models as well of course as a university scientist. Well, let let me let me be the ultimate skeptic. I feel I feel the obligation to be the voice of debunking skepticism just for a moment here. Um, the the scientific community, would you agree, broadly takes the view that UAPs, UFOs, they're not capable of being proved in material science that that essentially it's never been verified and and that these things can't be, you know, you can't gather data on them, you can't measure them, you can't sense them.

Therefore, it's not real. What do you think of that suggestion, that hypothesis? >> I I think it's antiquated because technologies changed and our thinking has changed. Uh, and if if the scientific or academia is still thinking like that, I think very quickly and very soon, as you're probably well aware, they're going they're going to get left behind if they don't get on board. And yes, some of us have taken a risk professionally stepping up. you know, Gary Arvy lower.

Uh I'm myself I'm a little bit lower down the ladder professionally because I'm not an academic, but I have an academic background. I'm and I'm an educator and a scientist. So, I think if they don't change their mindset when this all starts to um accelerate as it is already, they're going to miss miss the boat on all this. Um yeah, the techn is there to do it now. Uh I don't understand why they would still I I I think it's entrenched.

It's an entrenched mindset within academia. It's it can't be therefore it isn't. I mean that's talked about a lot as well. And we know historically uh well for me personally I've written another book coming out next year on our missing science uh which we could discuss. And I've looked at the whole UFO UAP thing since World War II and some key figures that have come a foul scientifically of the powers at be including Otus car, Douglas Tour, Dr.

Ningley, Victor Shaw, Bersia, uh all these guys seem to be talking about the same science of field repulsion, field repulsion technology. I'm wondering whether if some of the stigma is facilitated by counter intelligence over those eight decades of legacy programs and all of this and that that's that's distilled into the university system and into their mindset. It's this it's a minefield as you know of counter intelligence personal agendas you know blue book uh project sign project grudge there's there's a whole history behind this in terms of academia that I think we need to overcome the stigma of to move forward >> now you and I have got a mutual friend Josh Josh York who's an anthropologist who operates in that part of the world and he's in touch with a lot of the Aboriginal communities across that desert area um I was fascinated when I first spoke to Josh he told me that it is a big thing in the Aboriginal communities that they frequently see what they describe as structured craft hovering over the landscape at times, black triangles. And it fascinated me because I start my book in plain sight with an account of a young woman who was at the Harold E. Hulk Naval Communications Station when it was an American base and there was a gigantic triangular craft that hovered adjacent to the base over a road leading up to the base.

And she told this chilling story about how when she was asked to come into the base to talk to officials about what had happened that night when she and two police officers had seen this gigantic hovering craft. It was quite obvious to her that the base personnel and more importantly the people who'd been flown in from overseas, from American military overseas and civilian personnel, they knew full well about these objects and the whole intention was to try and cover it up and shut it down. Is it a plausible possibility that what we're seeing is some kind of American testing of prototypes? I mean, the thing that fascinates me about her story is a lot of the accounts from the Aboriginal community in that part of the Western Australia desert and over the Northwest Cape, they started when our good friend George Knapp started reporting on Area 51, Groom Lake, the Nevada Test Range, and all of a sudden the um cover of Groom Lake was blown as a place where you could safely test military prototype vehicles. Is it possible that what you're seeing and what the Aboriginal community are seeing are some kind of secret military technology perhaps being tested in the Australian outback by the Americans? I think we could I think there's a lot of speculation in there. Uh yes, the the indigenous communities have had a long history.

Uh because I've talked to Josh myself and I've met with him and and a couple of indigenous people up there talk about objects and even around mine sites up there. We've got conversations in pubs about objects and lights and unusual lights at night. And and there's a particular person at a mine site up there sent me some photos of physical what I think is physical craft uh as well in terms of discs and cylinders. I didn't see a triangle. >> Can we see Can we see those photographs? That was one thing you hadn't sent me just yet, but can we see those images of the the person? trying I'm trying to get the high-res ones because they were low res off the phone so the when they were sent it reduced the file size so I didn't want to send those cuz it's they're too pixelated.

Uh so I'm still waiting to leaz and and get more of the high-res versions of those. >> So in anticip in anticipation of us getting them can you talk to those photographs and tell me what you see? >> Yeah. um cuz I got a little bit of video um sent to me as well around this mine site because I won't talk about companies and and naming mind sites. It's um that wouldn't be professional but around uh particular mindsite is an increasing occurrence of uh objects in the night sky and during the day. Uh this the typical rainbow colored one that's been filmed at night that I've got a bit of footage of that just changes flashes a whole lot of different colors and moves up and below the horizon.

Uh there was another footage of a large the silver cylinder one that people talk about. Uh I've got some footage of that just hovering in the night sky. And there was another one uh in the in the mine pit during the day and off in the distance up against or close to one of the the walls of of the pit uh that had a had a more of a jellyfish like um structure to it. But what this person did say was that they I don't know whether it's they're more aware of them now, so they're seeing them more or mine workers are reporting an increased uh presence or activity around around that area because it's it's a it's broad it's around the area outside of these mines as well. So it's they might be seeing objects that are a few miles away um from from where they're working.

There are actually quite a few fans of Reality Check way out there in that West Australian desert because they send me their own images of what they're seeing over their remote Aboriginal communities. And a lot of what they're describing is what you're describing. Um, spheres, silver spheres, silver tubes. What on earth are they, Andrew? Yeah, if you if you do your research historically and you go back to pre and post World War II, um there is the um what I call the pop culture narrative and then there's the uh the the um scientific narrative. So in the pop culture narrative, they talk about you know flying sauces and and cylinders.

I think there's a couple of books is it David Childress has written books about that whole uh Nazi Germany narrative for flying saucers and cylinders. So so there's there's the potential there for a technology that's already been secounded away uh in in the private aerospace sector approved and tested. Uh so there could be that as well and that's why we've had these hearings in in the US in Congress about all this as well about who's got this technology and why why why aren't we aware of it? Have our adversaries got hold of it and are they doing better than us? So there's that maybe the Australia maybe there isn't a presence up there that's a bit of both uh NHI and human engineered technology that with or without the help of NHI the triangles I I they're up there because I've been like you I've been sent a photo of triangle lights in the skies by community members up there uh in the clouds as well and I've seen a couple of objects myself uh one at night one during the day uh that were of a different structure So, and I think there's a difference too cuz obviously the engineered ones, you know, rivets um a structure that's been assembled and it tends to be the NHI ones have no external features that show that they've somehow been been uh assembled. >> Let's talk about what you referred to earlier, the po electric effects in the rocks. I'm I'm I'm searching here for prosaic explanations.

And um one of the things that really struck me when I was in Egypt was there was a lot of talk about the quartzsite in granite and the poetric effects of granite uh carrying a lot of quartzite that they are in in many ways conductive or attractive of electrical energy. Um can you develop that hypothesis for me? How might a poetric effect in rocks help or assist in an understanding of the UAPs we're talking about? >> Yeah, we talk uh and I think it was in the third paper that we've published a research gate, we talk about energy cascades uh enhancing uh the uh phenomena up there through natural accumulation of electric electrical energy. So with the quartzsite uh you've got mag you've got high-grade um magnetite there uh which is has a magnetic field. You've got quartzite uh which has a under pressure quartz under pressure generates an electric field. So when uh and uh the pill is a craton so it's one of the oldest rock formations on the planet.

So in terms of pressure and movement, uh you've got the excess electrical and magnetic energy in that whole area anyway. And combine that with freezing and thoring of water deep in the rock formations cuz it's a desert climate that generates pressure, friction and electrical uh energy as well. So that all comes up out of the ground uh and and it can coales and that's why they talk about these naturally occurring uh spheres small spheres that can that can form from concentrated em energy. >> Well that that's what I was going to ask. I mean, is it is it possible that the orbs and rods that you're seeing are something caused by the poetic effect of rocks simply rubbing rubbing together that we don't need an NHI explanation for this? That it could just be a geological explanation as I know they're looking for at Helin in in Norway as well.

you know, everybody's still looking for a a possible geological explanation to explain the phenomenon that occurs in this valley in Norway called Hestelin. >> Yeah. Um and I I compare and contrast Hell and Lights in in the papers that Brian and I have written. Um and I think even even in in uh is it uh Teodani in his papers talks about the potential for that that naturally occurring phenomena to mask the presence of any technological phenomena as well. The same could well apply that we need more research to look at that but uh there is the potential for that up there.

But what I found is some of these the kinematics and morphologies of some of some of these orbs and rods don't demonstrate a random a random a random pattern of movement that you could associate with a naturally occurring phenomena which implies that there must be some form of intelligence that is um connected to some of these orbs and rods and I think Rani in his papers and his work um poses that question as well is that do the kinematics in his style and demonstrate an intelligence? Is there a mixture of both in there? And we simply don't know at the moment. We we need more more fieldwork and more instrumentation to separate the two if they if they are mixed together in this in this area. It's one of the things that you would cite as evidence of intelligence that when you point your infrared camera at these objects and start detecting them, um I think you've described it as a phase shift. They appear to change phase and change shape or form in some way. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Uh the fa phase shifting was interesting because I've if they were just going on in and out of the field of view, you you you couldn't you couldn't say much about it. But when I went back through and looked at the frame capture analysis and at some of the videography, they would manifest in physical space in the field of view. And we and in my third paper, we show some frame capture of that of in infrared. this orb just appears and coaleses as a light as a light bulb out from out of out of nowhere.

Uh so it's not coming through the field of view. It's actually manifesting in the field of view. Uh the rods are too fast to do that because I don't have high again we talk about high-speed uh cameras to do that. But the uh orbs were moving slow enough and manifesting slow enough that we did capture that on film. And so if that was but again is that a naturally occurring uh light bulb or is that a form of intelligence? So it's what we we can't separate the two at the moment because you know the light the large light the large orb that you've got video of moving through the field of view when I first went up there.

That's a lot bigger and and it has a completely different morphology to a smaller one as well. So they're not all the same. Can I just ask this? For a bear with a very small brain, if light is light, those orbs are clearly some kind of light or energy or plasma. Do you agree? >> Yeah. Yeah.

There there is some kind of energy there. Light bulb, plasma, some form of energy. >> Why can't we see them on anything other than infrared? >> I I this is where I put forward to Dr. Tyson, the energy cascade hypothesis within an interdimensional anomaly is that to go from invisible to infrared to the visible spectrum requires a certain amount of of energy to manifest in physical space. So I put forth that as a theory is that and I think toani talks about this too uh that the level of energy required to be in the infrared spectrum and the visible spectrum is different.

So, and if they're harnessing energy externally, which is another model we put forward, not generating it themselves, then they're totally dependent within that temporal anomaly on available energy uh and energy cascades as to how how intensely they manifest. So, I'm recording them in the 850 spectra, nanometer spectra. uh and it may simply be that the the the intensity of energy required to manifest in the light vis visible spectrum is not enough. >> So So do you need more or less energy to show in infrared than you do in visible light? Uh, I'm still researching this, but I think in terms of energy cascades, it's more because I think >> I I I think because Yeah, I'll have to go and do some more research on this, but because I'm still talking to Dr. Tyson about about plasma and light bulb and and energy cascades within this anomaly if it is a temporal anomaly.

Uh because it appears the more the more you move away from the site the less of these objects there are. They still have the same intensity but there's less of them. So where where's the energy coming from uh for the for that number to manifest and concentrate radially around a certain area? Uh and is that energy intensity like you said related to their ability to manifest? Uh is it are they choosing or are they just choosing not to manifest visibly? Is there Dr. Tyson even talked about um what he called consciousness or the observer effect uh in in quantum mechanics is that you observe something and therefore it's matter and when you're not observing it it's a waveform. So there's that whole area of physics as well is the observer having an impact on the manifestation.

>> And and one of the final questions, Andrew, do do the things you see, the orbs and rods, do you only see them at night? >> Uh yeah, but that's mainly because of the gear I've got. Um I do electric and magnetic field density right through um day and night. Uh but the infrared camera I'm setting up to film uh in infrared uh at night. So daytime Yeah. >> What is it possible that they are showing themselves in the daytime? It's just you don't have the type of camera that could pick them up because the infrared would be lost against the daytime heat.

>> Yeah, exactly. Yep. And I think that's where if we get into more field work and a proposal to develop this further with with better technology that we can set up um sensor arrays 24/7 and look at uh other the full spectrum cuz we're we're very limited with 850 nanometer spectra and EM field intensity. What about the uh the rest of the infrared spectrum, the visible spectrum, even the ultraviolet spectrum? >> What would you need to be able to measure them during the day? high-speed cameras, hyperspectral cameras. What would you need? >> Yeah, we need Yeah, we need hyperspectral cameras so we can do day and night uh alongside EM field intensity and also the radar arrays as well to see if there is a signature from an are they an actual object.

So, you've got the um hyperspectral cameras, you've got your EM field intensity, you've got your radar array. Uh I think we'd be getting a lot further along the track in terms of what is going on there. All we all we can say definitely is something is going on here. It's anomalous. Uh it may or may not be naturally occurring and there seems to be some form of intelligence attached to it.

So we've written three papers on that. put forward our theories behind the data, suggested a way forward and put placed it in the context of the scientific literature literature globally uh and in particular the Hardin light research >> with the exception of um Hellin and the work of Msimo Teodorani the Italian scientist that you've mentioned a couple of times is anyone else researching these orbs and rods around the world >> I've had uh there's there's anecdotal evidence on from YouTubers. And there's also there's also historically I found on on the internet people have written books on and called them um spirits that have passed over. There's this whole uh that whole side of it too. And I I I stayed away from that.

I said look this there's a science to all this. Uh some people have connected these orbs to to spirits or passed over spirits or the spiritual side of things. And I think yeah, there's a consciousness consciousness connection, but let's let's let's be scientific and just because we don't understand something, let's not turn it into religion. Let's keep with the science and and find out what the science is uh behind it all. And I again I allude to the fact that there is there's a missing branch of science in the public arena that I think other people are well aware of.

>> What do you think that missing branch of science is, Dr. for Andrew Morgan. >> Yeah, we had a discussion about this. the book the book I my book on my life as an experience of the book on UAP coming out next year and all my background research in one word actually three words I could sum it up is field repulsion science uh everything seems to be connected to to that and if it's so highly coveted why and we had the conversation about okay scalar weapons technology uh even to go back to Maxwell's original quian notation where time is a scale of fourth dimension and that's all been taken offline and modified as well. So there's there's something missing across all of this.

>> So do you think some science is being actively suppressed by some in the scientific establishment or is that too big a call? >> No, I I I think yes and no. I think there's there's a naivity uh about it because you don't know what you don't know and the ones that do know uh it's maybe career ending or not a good idea. And then there's counter intelligence as well. So because if you go back through and look at all the stuff that's been taken offline and there's a stigma around it, people's careers have been altered, changed or they've disappeared or not working on it anymore and they're all in that area of research is is disc rotating disc technology, counter rotation, field repulsion. Uh and and go to I've gone into Russian work and even um torsion fields.

A lot of the torsion field research is is by Russian scientists in in nature uh and in terms of technology application and that's all connected to field repulsion science as well. So where where is all this science? Why is it not in universities in high schools uh connected to special relativity and quantum mechanics? So where is it? Because the big thing that fascinates me is even physicists like Eric Weinstein admit that there's a huge hole in modern physics. That string theory doesn't work. It doesn't explain the known universe. We've got a huge problem with modern physics.

And for much of the last 60 to 70 years, it's struggled to explain a unified physics theory that actually explains the whole universe. >> Um, what do you think this field propulsion technology is exactly? Can you explain that to a lay person without making our heads explode? >> Yep. Yep. It's key. It's key to to make sure we call it field repulsion, not propulsion.

So field repulsion. Uh and it's all to do with um uh go back to Maxwell's electromagnetic atom uh and spin uh a subatomic spin and electron spin uh and and everything spins. And when you when you generate an electric field from that uh you generate a repulsion. So if you looked at docu uh Dr. Ningley's disc technology, same sort of thing getting that that that spin technology to generate a repulsive field.

Uh you go to um Victor Victor Shaw's uh implosion drive spinning disc. uh again generating a field around it which allows it to shoot up in the air uh at in instant in instantaneously uh and then Otis car same sort of thing uh with uh with with u uh field repulsion so generating a spin and a repulsive field so that's that seems to be where this gap is but I I go I think we need to have a conversation about the relationship between Einstein and Maxwell Well, cuz I've been researching this and what happened to Maxwell's paternian notation uh in scale of time. So I think it all started from there. Uh whether that was on purpose or inadvertently because heavyside turned it into vector calculus and then Einstein did got his special relativity from from all of that. Um but Maxwell and Einstein knew each other.

So Einstein must have known about Maxwell's quitterian mathematics because he was a genius mathematician and helped Einstein. So has that been taken offline? What happened to it? Why is why are we not talking about scale of time and field repulsion uh since then? And every time it has been bought up, it's it's disappeared. >> Whether by design or oversight, a science is being suppressed. I >> I I think so. and and and and maybe there's good reason for that.

But we're at a stage now where we can acknowledge that yes, you can hold on to the technology, but give us our science back, please. Uh because we need to understand how how the universe works. And I think uh understanding the fourth dimension is going to uh in terms of what I've just talked about is going to unravel or bring back what Eric Weinstein was talking about in terms of our missing science and understanding deep space travel uh and hopping around space and and not moving through physical space to get to somewhere that takes hundreds of years to get to because that's never going to happen. I think people are well aware of this. >> Well, Dr.

Andrew Morgan, I think your little adventures in the Pilra Desert, examining mysterious orbs and rods, may one day provide us with an answer to that big question, and I sincerely hope it does. Dr. Andrew Morgan, thank you so much for joining Reality Check. Um, I think all of us would like to see your research continue. It would be great to see your um uh work better funded so that you can get the equipment you need to do the kind of research that's needed to definitively get a result and hopefully get you published in a peer-reviewed journal.

>> Yeah, thank thanks a lot, Ross. I think we have more questions than answers at the moment, but I I look forward to what the future holds. So, thank you very much. >> Thanks for watching. Go to joinn.com to find NewsNation on your television provider.

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