Using Psychedelics to 'Super-Charge' Creativity | Ning Li

Transcript

on today's episode of getting out of the machine with guest ning lee ning's path from studying the muscle cells of elephant seals to dropping out of grad school and becoming an a-list copywriter how a bad breakup led ning to inadvertently become a persuasion expert the process that both ning and i used to get exceptionally good in a very short period of time how psychedelics allowed ning to see his own triggers and in his opinion supercharged his copyrighting career then the dramatic conclusion we discuss how ning is getting messages from god that could change the world and while i'm obviously skeptical you shouldn't dismiss it until you hear the how and why my name is henry bingaman you're listening to getting out of the machine ning thanks for coming on the podcast happy to have you here i'm excited to be here and thank you for having me so your background is as a copywriter uh you helped paleo hacks go through their one of their big growth phases you were the top copywriter there i think you've since gone independent as a copywriter and you have a coaching program as well did i get that all right yes yes so one of the reasons that i really wanted to talk to you you know the podcast called getting out of the machine and you were on a very different career path prior to starting copywriting can you kind of talk about that yeah well i i've had a few zigs and zags you know in my life in my um in my college days uh early 20s i was studying biology to become a biology teacher and then i actually taught middle school and high school bio for like a year and then i went back to school to a graduate program to get a phd and it was in studying the muscle cells of elephant seals so um as soon as i started that program i uh found out that uh it probably wasn't for me like the way that my professor spent his day and his demeanor and his job i was like man if i'm i'm kind of headed on the path to be that and that doesn't look fun you know so i did the the normal thing which was type into google how do i make money online and then i kind of found my way into copywriting so that's kind of how i got out of the whole academia thing and i just kind of busted my i don't know if i can swear on this podcast i just busted my ass for about you know two three years learning this skill mostly on my own and with a little bit of direction from a mentor who i got really really lucky to to meet and then um and then i started getting work so that's kind of how i got out of the whole academia world but i was that was my main world before i transitioned to copywriting so what would you have been doing with the muscle cells of elephant seals i would have been um so uh i quit uh three years in to my program and what i was basically doing was going into the lab every day and pipetting [ __ ] [Laughter] you know those little agar gels those growing muscle cells in those in those gels and just like putting solution on them and all kinds of crap and then um doing experiments with them like uh putting them in uh hypoxic conditions no oxygen seeing how they react giving them different solutions some with a little more fat some a little more glucose seeing how they you know the difference in myoglobin content was what i was studying so i would have done that and then after six years i would have written a thesis on that and then after that i would have done a postdoc and done more pipetting and been in a lab and did that for another six years and then i would become a a professor and then i'd be writing grants uh to the government asking for money to fund that stuff yeah that sounds pretty miserable but you were really committed if you're three years into it um did you was there like familial pressure was it just this is the societal expectation that's why i went into this as like how did you get so far down that path before you changed lanes i was kind of i was kind of lost in my 20s you know um i i knew that teaching was something that i enjoyed and then i didn't like the bureaucracy of say like middle school in high school i did like teaching aspects so i thought maybe teaching in at university would be fun you know and i was a ta for a while and i did enjoy that um and it was a little bit of familial pressure like my parents were like proud that i you know that was going to get into a phd program you know that was doing a phd program they're like yes good job and that was one of the you know a few things they were proud of me for um and so that was a little it was a little bit of that and it was a little bit of just i didn't know what else there was i didn't know what other path there was for me so this is i kind of defaulted into it you know yeah it's kind of interesting so my path was uh you know i went and got a degree in fiction writing in college and you know there's not a whole lot of jobs waiting for fiction writers that graduated with no published works uh so my first job was as a flight attendant making twenty thousand dollars a year but flying all over the world uh so when i found copywriting like i didn't have anything else that made sense it's just it's interesting that you had the uh fortitude to kind of be like no i'm gonna give up this whole path that i've invested decade almost a decade and at that point four years and then three right in college and grads yeah so where did you kind of find the motive so one of the things that actually initially stopped me from or made me hesitate i think from going into copywriting was like it just to my friends it sounded like a scam industry they're like you're gonna be writing you know long-form ads on the internet and expect to get paid so how did you kind of get past that peer pressure to stay on the track okay so the the the story gets a little bit more complicated um if if we're gonna dive deeper so i'll just tell the full story okay yeah so so basically i had um when i decided to get into the phd program i had gone through a big breakup in new york okay so i spent most of my uh i i did my undergrad at cornell and my teaching degree at cornell and i went through a big breakup and um my reaction to the breakup was to get into a phd program i don't know that's just the way my brain worked at the time so i applied to a bunch of places i got into colorado state and i flew colorado state and at the same time that i was doing all this academia stuff i um was getting into a lot of like the men's dating material and um and as opposed to this breakup so i it was my first time discovering that um oh there's educational material out there and how to improve my dating life and so i got really into that and then when um i was following uh i know you probably heard this name jason capital uh i i've heard of him i don't know him right so he he's one of the the coaches in the you know the dating space where he used to be and i was following his material and was all you know online in the men's dating industry and then he started coming out with products teaching you how to make money online so at the same time that i was learning that i was doing all this academia stuff and going out to the bars a lot and trying to improve my dating life i um i was following this guy's material and in one of his products that i bought it basically said if you improved your dating life with women if you learn how if you learn this skill you can learn marketing okay you have a big leg up in martin because you understand psychology and all of that and so i was like hey i did get good at this skill you know i did you know improve my dating life a lot like maybe this is something that i can do so it was the initial that one line was like if you got good with women you can get good with marketing i don't know who on his team came up with that but i i really took that to heart and i was like oh you know i am good at learning skills okay what if i you know copyright looks like a lucrative thing maybe i can do this so that was the first kind of little fire that kind of lit up inside me and i was like oh there's hope right there is hope out of this life of being poor so um so i was like okay um well if i'm gonna learn copywriting or you know if i'm gonna start an online business or something what would i started in okay so my first initial um my first initial business was teaching asian men dating so i had it yeah i had a youtube channel and i wrote all my own vsls and um and i got like i got the youtube channel like 40k subs or something okay so um i worked really hard at it for about a year and a half and this whole time um this is the other side of the puzzle okay this whole time uh when i was just in the dating phase when i was going out to bars a lot i would journal in this forum it was a it was a pickup artist for him right and i would journal and be like oh okay so um i know i'm good at this i'm good at making this joke this joke seems to work a lot my goal is to talk to 20 women tonight um this is what i did well this is why i didn't do well i write my debriefs after i came home you know and i just kind of journaled my experience to try to keep myself accountable and on track it was in this forum and it became this long long it kind of worked on my writing chops too because it became like this 20-page journal because i journaled so much and um and people on the forum you know these guys would start commenting on it and some would start giving advice and i could tell that most of it was just kind of bs advice from people who didn't really go out but one guy started giving me advice i could tell was like pretty knowledgeable okay and his advice i started taking it and we started becoming it started becoming like a mentor-mentee kind of relationship on this dating forum okay and he started giving me advice on on women and at the time i was like oh i can't like i can't make a move to kiss a girl even if i know that she's interested and she's attracted to me i don't know what my mental block is he helped me kind of move through some of that and when i started writing in the same journal that i was learning this digital marketing stuff and i was writing vsl's learning this brand new thing called copywriting this guy that was mentoring me with women just wrote oh hey that's what i do that's like that's like my job that's i i i work in that world and i was like wait really so he started um i started sending him my vsls and he started just giving me some feedback send it back to me and that became my relationship for about a year and a half okay and i knew as the further and further this happened i knew that i was kind of getting lucky and getting a really good deal with someone who was really good i didn't know how good um until he he's like okay i think it's the point let's exchange facebooks okay get off this dating forum thing and exchange emails and um we did that and then suddenly one day i'm listening to a ken mccarthy podcast and i see his name on the podcast and i was like wait a minute this guy's like a big deal and uh that guy turned out to be dan ferrari [Laughter] that's crazy just happened to run into one of the top copywriters right yeah and uh and so that he was just giving me feedback for free and mentoring me for him and he was like one of the only people i would tell people about this and be like what the hell are you doing like what what is this nonsense that you're doing but he was one of the few people that were like hey you have potential you have talent in this i see it it's good the writing um let me give you feedback and i'm gonna support you and believe in you so he was like the one of the few people that believed in me and said you can go down this path and there's a there's a light at the end of the tunnel so i took that and i held on to it and that just became a relationship until it was maybe two three years in 2016 i think is when he sent me an email one summer and said hey do you want to make some money and i said yes and then him and aaron winter who was his mentor flew into denver to meet me they gave me a test project to write a sales letter and they gave me the test project and i said i i don't care what it [ __ ] takes i don't care what it i'm going to lock myself in the library and i'm going to make sure i pump the sales that are out and it's going to impress the [ __ ] out of them and then they're gonna hire me and so i did that for a month submitted it they were very impressed and then that's how my kind of professional copywriting career started that's awesome that's a great story yeah right yeah i had a similar so my first mentor was uh jed kansey well technically i so my first mentor was mark ford uh michael masterson is his pen name um you know he wrote this the awai six figure copywriting program and he you know he was one of the founders of agora so i was working with him a little bit in the health side at a company called uh natural health dossier which they gave me a flyer on a project there i met him at just a conference and they're like oh we have this product we're going to put under like it's not it was the early to rise health division and they were shut down early to rise they're like yeah we're going to shut this division down but if you want to take one crack at a sales letter to see if we can get anywhere with it you know i'd done a couple sales letters at that point but like yeah sure try it and so i wrote a sales letter it was decent and then i just worked with mark for a couple months to perfect it and it went on to do a million dollars my first million dollar sales letter and kind of revived that business which is actually still alive today cool but then mark introduced me to jed canty who was the one who really took an interest in me and he's like okay you have some talent i'm gonna work with you and our first couple calls he was working with newsmax at the time and they were doing a health promo and he'd only done financial stuff before so he's like why don't you come over you've done this health stuff you can make sure i'm not doing anything stupid and we had a couple phone calls on skype that lasted for literally 12 hours just reviewing copy and i think just the fact that i was willing to do that he's like all right you have the determination to do what it takes so you know a lot of people if you show any kind of initiative to somebody that's talented you can really get on their radar yeah 12-hour skype call what yeah 12 hours it's jed is a madman he's either entirely on or not paying attention at all but he has the stamina like you know we were both i was in my 20s at that point he was still in his 30s it was uh what the hell that was that was 2010. and that thing did well so you know that created a relationship that's still going today so yeah i mean just showing people that you're really interested and willing to work hard and smart the other thing you were talking about earlier is you were breaking down your uh just journaling about your attempts at the bars at night i think that's something about copywriters that tend to do well is they're extremely analytical because they don't go back and review things so one of the things i did earlier on was i would break down every sales letter that was doing well into its constituent parts and so i would find like where are the patterns here that things are doing well and you know what's different in each one so i ended up making some templates off of that that i still use somewhat to this day um that's like the basis of my entire what i teach in copywriting so when i started dan basically told me go to swipe.co which is owned by my buddy mike shower search for any ads any old newspaper ads by eugene schwartz gary bensavenga or gary halbert print them out and then hand copy them and then go back with a different color pen and then circle the different elements that you see okay so whether the proof the benefit the this the that and circle all those so you start seeing the language over and over again and now the way i teach copy is copy is made up of a bunch of ingredients 17 different ingredients there's a benefit the vehicle the proof easy if without even if without statements easy convenient i mean i teach all these different ingredients and when you put the ingredients in a little in an order like a recipe then you get strong copy so that's kind of how i teach beginners and that's kind of resonating with what you're kind of saying with the analytical piece hey guys it's henry cutting in really quick if you're enjoying this episode i have another video i think you'll really love especially if you're interested in copywriting in 2019 the legendary copywriter clayton makepeace invited me to speak at his financial copywriting intensive and he wanted me to talk about how i come up with my big ideas for copywriting promotions so i boiled the process down to just eight steps eight questions really to ask yourself to take a weak idea and turn it into a monster that does a million dollars 10 million or even 100 million dollars in revenue you can get that talk by going to henry b dot co slash idea once you sign up from an email list you'll get that talk and a whole lot more goodies again that's henry b dot co slash idea all right let's get back to the show so there's a lot of copywriters that are really good at what they do but can't teach other people uh i mean i see that pattern all the time so how i guess you have a degree in teaching is that do you think your educational background helped you in helping to communicate with students because correct me if i'm wrong but i believe you know you work with a little bit with justin and stefan in their copy accelerator program and the people you're coaching keep winning their contests from what i understand so what is it that you're doing differently in coaching that other copywriters can't really figure out um i uh so i've got a couple fluff philosophies around coaching um i think the teaching degree doesn't do jack [ __ ] but i do think my experience teaching does help and just speaking in front of a like a classroom and i used to tutor a lot and i used to ta a lot so i think that does help but i think i got started coaching very early so before copy accelerator existed before all these coaching programs existed i was coaching for a program called copy hour headed by derek johansen that started in 2018 i believe yeah so i was coaching in 2018 for that company and me and my buddy austin lee who's a financial copywriter we would coach six students at a time for two months at a time and then we do that over and over again so i think i just got a lot of reps in so i started seeing basically the same mistakes the same client questions the same all these i started seeing all the patterns right early on and then i just kept doing coaching because i loved it and i just got more and more reps at it and so i've seen basically every problem that a beginning copywriter can run through um i can predict off of the first five minutes how well they're going to do or how fast they're going to ascend or what problems they're going to run to um and a lot of the psychotherapeutic work that i did on my own has kind of added to my ability to see and added to my ability to teach and to influence the students so um if i had to boil all of it down to what makes my coaching effective is just repetitions i've just done it i think i've done more one-on-one coaching than any other person on the planet in in terms of copywriting that's a big claim i don't know if it's true or not it's just it's just what i think you know david garfinkel would disagree but uh sure i don't know it's hard maybe he's right i don't actually know you know but um so what are i don't want to say mistakes what are the things that new copywriters that i guess this can apply to business owners too anybody trying to do go out on their own what what are the things that gets the most in their way because a lot of the stuff comes internally so what do you think what what are kind of the the things that people are blocking themselves on that you see the most um are we talking about copywriters or business owners uh let's start with copywriters and then i want to do business owners too sure so uh if we're talking about copyright then i assume we're talking about a person who's just starting out right okay and uh there's a couple different types of people in this category okay there's a type of person um there's a couple different archetypes um some people have a block with time and energy allocation so they've got a nine to five and they're trying to learn copyright on the side okay um they may have a family they may not have a family okay i've taught students who have been they they drive trucks for nine hours a day and they're trying to learn copy on the side so if that's the case obviously there's going to be a time and energy that's the bottleneck right you'd finish driving trucks for nine hours a day how much mental energy you're gonna have to learn copy to write copy to struggle through that right so um so that's one type of person another type of person um who comes in uh is leaving a already successful career okay sometimes i've had students who you know had a successful career as a psychologist as a lawyer as a this as a that and those people tend to actually make a lot of fast progress because they understand they've already had success in this other field so the same sort of rules for success apply you know in terms of like taking action they understand that it's it's it's it's not a a button that you press and it's easy it's like okay i have to learn this skill they understand a lot of that whereas some of the younger writers who start they don't necessarily understand that yet they don't understand that the the path towards success is to do all the hard work so you're kind of saying the people that come in that were already successful don't have that particular block right that's i think that's a mental block that when they come in they already understand that i know i understand that it takes hard work and i know that the the more i just go towards the hard work and i just do it um the faster the success will come whereas there are other people who come in they're like is there an easy path here somewhere is there an easy pass somewhere and they're just avoiding the hard work path looking for the shortcuts yes yes yes yes yeah all right what about business owners what are the blocks you see because you know as copywriters we get to see inside in real good detail into a lot of different people's businesses and we are technically business owners so what are the kind of blocks you've seen holding business owners back oh man uh where do i start um there's a lot okay and if if a person comes in and they skip copyright and go straight into business ownership man there's just so many things you gotta learn there's so the way i teach like income scaling right so like how do i increase my income i've i have people who come in with making none and they want to make two 3k a month to people who come in making 10k a month how do i get to 20 people who are at 20 and they want to get to how do i get to more so the way i teach income scaling is that um as a copywriter for example you start by learning emails and short form copy and then you move on to what like long form and upsells you move on to all these progressively harder and harder pieces of copy and as you do that and you master each skill it's like a it's like a little graph and your income starts going up because you're doing progressively more valuable skills that other people cannot do right and then um once you've mastered all this stuff upsells a [ __ ] long ass front end long form you know and uh the next portion is offer creation right how do i create an offer so that's one of the growth areas i had in paleox was i started coming up with the offers instead of them handing me the offer and saying can you write the copy just for people listening an offer is the it's the the copy you use basically to sell a product it's what the whole package is that you get because you know offer is very specific to direct response especially in the marketing right so you know what's your your sales offer i guess is the best way to say it what's the product look like yeah exactly what product are we doing right that's that's basically the question all right so paleo hacks you said you were just starting to just take over the uh design of the offer right yeah offer construction what offer should we do next and cynic dave cynic would come to me and ask that and then i would decide and then the product development team would go off and start creating the product right so um so that's the next like skill as your money goes up right and then after that it's like it's like operations hiring managing and then you know like business operations manufacturing sourcing and app that's like on the far end of that in terms of owning a business right so when you jump into a business and you skip all this marketing stuff and you and you're trying to learn all these different pieces at once it's just overwhelming right so that's a beginner like business owner what i would say is the main blog it's just there's too much stuff to learn so that's why i don't really often suggest someone does that um i i think it's much more i think it's a smoother path if you master like say marketing first and then you become a business owner um because i think some some skill within the business is necessary where you really launch like don't just go off and start this was how i tried to start copywriting as i tried to write an ebook and sell it online myself with only knowing and only very vaguely knowing the copywriting process so all of the ad buying and all that stuff and this was 2008 so it was a very free market back then as far as ads and facebook ads but yeah it just failed because i hadn't really mastered the one skill so one skill at a time one skill at a time work inside of another successful business so you see what all the other skills are required yeah that's a good way to learn you know um and so yeah but for experienced business business owners coming in i would say people interactions is probably the biggest block um in general i would say that business owners the way they treat their employees is how they treat their kids or their like you know it's they're recreating a lot of family dynamics with their with the people in their business and how they manage the people and i think that's a really big tricky area um that i see a lot of blocks in and just the systems and the ops of businesses are usually just a mess you know so that's that's what i would say about that so one of the things that we talked about a little bit in our kind of get to know each other conversation was uh you've done a decent amount of experimentation with psychedelics is that something you're willing to talk about because i think the way you describe it is you're using psychedelics as a tool to help get rid of your own internal blocks because everybody has certain things that are getting in their way in our own head so can you kind of talk about your experience there because i have very little experience with psychedelics personally although i find the topic fascinating all right absolutely yeah i've talked about this all day so um about four years ago um i started work with a psychotherapist you and i both know him but he does not want to be named so um i won't name him um but i really took to this man's work okay so i went to a few seminars um i uh fell in love with the work and i saw so much suddenly the first 30 years of my life made sense you know so i started using the work a lot to cover i discovered that i have a crapload of i had a crapload of mental blocks okay from all the programming in my childhood so i got to work um fixing those blocks on my own for myself okay so i use his process did thousands of repetitions um i like to tell people that uh in the first year i did eight of his um exercises a day you know and the second year did four day and just really really went at it and as the more i did the better my life got and the more the healthier i felt so i just kind of doubled down on it okay around the third second or third year um i was at a mastermind and if you ever know if you know anything about rich people at masterminds they like to talk about business and they do a lot of psychedelics and uh one of one of my few experiences on psychedelics is uh on a mastermind event on a private island in croatia yeah baby bathwater or yeah that was the first time i did most okay and i did a real light dose and it was just a little yeah things got a little colorful so you're not gonna get any kind of movement or change from that but right that was the first time i ever experienced it right so um i uh from someone who's you know i look up to and i receive advice from they were like hey you gotta try shrooms you know if you're into this stuff the inner healing stuff you gotta try shirts so um my now my wife um but at the time she was my girlfriend we acquired some and decided to experiment after i did a bunch of research because i had always grown up like a straight edge i didn't drink didn't do drugs so this is a big step for me and we both tried it and um immediately it was a very eye-opening experience and um it allows you to see your own triggers a lot better so it elucidates all your own trees so a lot of times when you're doing the inner healing work one of the biggest blocks is that it's hard to be aware of your own stuff it's easy to see other people's gunk like their patterns or whatever it's hard to see your own patterns psychedelics allow you to see your own patterns much more clearly okay so that's kind of what i discovered and then i discovered that each time i did them okay i started trying to do the psychotherapeutic work while tripping and i discovered that holy cow this actually moves a huge block and what used to take me three months of these psychotherapeutic exercises to get rid of an emotional pattern or negative thought pattern or whatever now it takes me much it's much faster it's just one session it's gone right so i was like what if i just continued to do this and so i had some resistance against that because i was like am i [ __ ] my brain up am i but each time i did it i just felt better moved a bigger block made more money and so i just kept doing that kept doing that kept doing that and then um i guess my i want to be a little bit cautious because you you've obviously had a great experience but you know there are people that i've heard horror stories of like mental breaks and uh triggered schizophrenia and stuff so what kind of warnings would you give people um before they try something like this right so i'm not recommending anyone do anything because i don't want to hold myself liable okay but this is just my personal experience okay these bad trips and bad experiences with people i believe almost everything is a mental block okay it's it's it's a script it's programming and it's defense mechanisms with reactions to what your programming is from your childhood but if you're having a bad trip or something um you're you're basically missing this component of being able to talk to your inner child that's it the two really have to go together and if you're just doing psychedelics with no respect for this other side or no knowledge of this other side um you know there's a lot of stuff like i don't just do them willy-nilly i pay attention to set setting i have a a process that i i do and i walk my students through and yeah it's controlled okay and then when stuff comes up we use the process that i've kind of all these experiences i've developed this process to be able to process emotions and so we basically help students through that and that i have not had a bad experience yet and i've done dozens with students so this is just my personal belief okay maybe people out there have had bad experiences i trust that i'm not arguing against that but my personal belief is that with this process with the right process it's always a good thing so i don't know that's just my belief yeah i would really like i mean i i know the laws are changing around psychedelics very slowly but they're the therapeutic benefits are becoming more and more obvious especially mdma psilocybin uh people are kind of gravitating away from lsd and the research i've seen um but yeah in controlled settings like that's what the thing is we need more professionals around this to help guide people through the process people that are that actually done all the research and know what can go wrong and know how to fix these problems that's why you know i've always been hesitant to dive in any deeper just because i don't have that coach in my life that could guide me through that experience exactly um so again i just want to you know i just want to caution people before they dive into this thing to do it with a lot of intention and a lot of research and hopefully some good guidance absolutely but also for legal reasons don't do it at all that's illegal i i agree with everything you said all right so what is your what's your business like right now i know you're coaching some students are you also still working with clients um no so um i've gone through a process of really focusing and centralizing what i do um and so i did used to work with clients um my day you know let's say three years ago was like paleohacks work coaching and some client work on the side and then gradually i work less and less with clients because i just wanted to work with clients who i liked and i enjoyed working with and that i made good money from and i started tossing all the backlines i just started realizing that most clients suck so just stop looking for clients and just kind of focus on what i liked and so then it became just paleo hacks and coaching and then gradually the coaching side started taking off more and more because it's just people i coached would just um the other the other side of this is that like i started incorporating the mindset work in my coaching with copywriters and it just made the thing explode because students uh once you move their mindset blocks they just make a lot more money much faster so you know i had students with like they would just have fear around charging higher rates and uh we'd do some work around that that fear would be gone and then suddenly their income just doubles okay so um that's not uncommon it sounds great it sounds like marketing whatever but i'm just kind of stating what's what has happened with with me and my students it also depends on where their income's at like if you're at 80 000 a year it's a lot easier to double your income than if you're at 400. absolutely absolutely i don't want to just blanket statement double your income but especially for beginners it's believe it or not you will have a couple years of growth in there where you're doubling income from copywriting one you can really stick with it absolutely absolutely and so um what was the original question i kind of lost my train of thought i was asking if you were working with clients at all and you were just kind of explaining your right right so so that started taking off and um uh recently i quit payload hacks just to work on my coaching thing so that decision was just based on um how much money i made from the amount of time i spent doing something okay how much i enjoyed it and if i had passion for or not and i just started um recently i started feeling like this is my purpose in life is this coaching business right and it's it's gravitated even more and more towards i i had a recent launch of a program called zero to 5k it's just a beginner copywriters program but it's my specific take on it and basically we focus on two things is um you right i give you feedback okay and i've hired coaches that i've trained that have been past students that give feedback we do that as many times as possible and that's the one leverage point you take to get good really fast and then the other portion is buying tech calls so i started moving students through my mindset uh you know process and um yeah and that that was a program i just recently launched and i think my next offer is i i wanna i wanna release something that changes the world you know i wanna expose i wanna create an offer that spreads across the world in terms of you know being able to rewire your own brain re-structure your inner world and um i mean that's a fairly large uh ambition yeah so how that i mean that's i kind of want to dig into that more you're going from it's so you're trying to skip out incremental steps in there it feels like to change the world with one offer what's the plan like how do you plan on doing that that's just such an enormous claim yeah so um i'm skipping a lot of woo-woo stuff that i haven't mentioned as well um i've learned man okay well in the past six months i've kind of started i don't know what to call them okay other than messages from god or the universe or something sometimes i just get messages kind of beamed into me and i've like resisted them at first but then the more i started listening to them they're just the better my life gets so does that show up as like a sentence uh a thought like what is it so um i meditate a lot sometimes it comes to me as a sentence sometimes it comes to me as an image okay and sometimes uh it comes to me as is a here's a mental block you have that you need to work on in order to achieve so um i started working with a different coach um recently um who's a more uh an intuitive coach so it's it's even more in woo-woo realm and i've learned to just kind of uh if i have a goal in mind or something i write in something called surrender circle and then i ask the universe for it and i ask the units to show me signs as to how to achieve it okay um and so i've kind of been following that framework um sounds very woo-woo but uh i think one of my strengths is i have both the woo side and the like years and years of hard technical experience marketing and so combined um i think is a superpower so yeah so back to kind of my goal is i want to create a totally canned course okay so it's a video course and it's where i walk people through meditations and visualizations and teach them my process okay and then um it really should be like a two thousand dollar course or something okay but i'm not gonna sell i'm gonna sell for one dollar and then um the upsell one is going to be a uh a weekly call on zoom that i charge 200 for um 200 a month and um it's just a group thing on zoom you join the group call i coach the process i have people do hot seats um and then uh that's the whole funnel structure that i want to launch next how do you scale something that you know you have to be guiding to change the world or is the one dollar offer gonna be enough the one dollar offer is gonna so what i found with the majority of my students who go through my process is that they become walking testimonials and they tell everyone they know so i'm um my plan is to have the the same sort of phenomenon happen and have this course spread virally on its own organically so they go through it they get so much value out of it that they can't help but tell their friends then they just tell their friends then they buy it for one dollar and then they experience it and then a portion of those will get put into the weekly group continuity calls it's just one call a week and that's where the profit center is so i mean i'm skeptical but i'm eager to watch where it goes sure absolutely yeah i don't i would be surprised if you weren't skeptical so we're coming up on the end here where can people go to follow you and keep up with all the uh the coaching you're doing and the world changing programs you're coming out with so um you can sign up on my email list at ningleycopy.com ningli lee is spelled li it's just ninglycopy.com and i have a facebook group for copywriters it's called copywriters giving copywriters feedback you can join people just give each other free feedback on their copy and to improve because i think that's the biggest leverage point to improve and um all the mindset stuff is an offer i'll be launching soon um and it's not super built out yet i'm kind of using the zero to 5k group and the mindset calls i'm doing there to kind of set the framework and use those recordings as kind of like the basis for the offer so yeah all right very cool thank you so much for joining me today thank you