Physics • Dr. Eric Davis

Transcript

this video was shot at physicist Hal put offs Institute for advanced studies at Austin I'm the senior research physicist here and uh uh my doctorates in astrophysics and my background is in Quantum field Theory and general relativity and I apply those fields to uh an applied physics research area that I specialize in called breakthrough propulsion physics and it's about the physics of propulsion for inter flight and the Breakthrough means uh we're trying to go beyond the means or beyond the limitations of Newtonian rocket propulsion physics which has limited us to speed limited us to uh how much we can uh fly into space and instead try to find ways to go faster into space reach uh you know go further faster out into deep space even reaching the nearby stars as well as uh the outer solar system and uh it also entails uh studies on whether we can break the light speed barrier or not using uh the current laws of physics Dr Paul Smith persuaded his good friend Dr Davis to come in on a Saturday to speak with me because Paul knew that I was in Austin to speak with physicists to see if they knew anything about physicist Tom Campbell's digital virtual reality Theory so I started by showing Dr Davis animations to illustrate a controversial area of Campbell's Theory which you can see in detail on the quantum physics page of all reality.com Dr Davis basically said that if some of the physicists I had spoken to on the previous day disagreed with Campbell then perhaps Campbell had misunderstood something but being a good scientist Dr Davis said said that he didn't really know that much about the questions at hand and so it didn't feel like he could really speak to them but that was fine because the discussion quickly led into unknown territory for me a non-scientist that were so fascinating that I just sat back and enjoyed the ride and I invite you to do the same as Dr Davis starts the journey by talking about physicist in Austria working on something called The Bell theorem or the Bell violation they have finally done the last experiment to close the loophole on the Bell violations Bel theorem violations and because there's been this series of things that have been laid out for decades that well you have a weak experiment that'll that'll prove the Bel Bell theerum violation then you have gradually strong experiments but then there's all these other experiments we came up with and the list is finite it's not infinite which you know could which could possibly when when when performed could possibly show that Bell's theorem is actually obeyed and there is no quantum entanglement so they one by one have been demolishing these things what is the bell's uh um that's the the the basis of entanglement B it's the basis of entanglement yeah it's it's just I I'm not an expert in that area that's not my field um if you violate Bell's theorem you have Quantum manglement in other words Bell's theorem okay Bell's theorem has to do with the correlation of quantum systems and a classical correlation where there's causal interactions in time and space between interacting systems the theorem would be obeyed okay if the interactions are a causal in other words there's something fast there's an influence going faster than light across time and space yeah then the theorem is violated and the correlation is not classical it is now falling into the quantum domain okay so so they have knocked every one of these things down for the last 20 some plus years and they just got to the last one so they' because there's always some little fidgety thing that somebody comes up with that's like a little back door a little angle or hitch that could uh bring the whole thing down in favor bels there being obeyed and and classical physics huh and supporting classical physics yeah and that's right and they and so uh they have to be tested because it's a hypothesis that's been put out there and it's the duty of the scientist to take that hypothesis and test it in order to find out whether that part of quantum theory uh stands or Falls and they sure enough it it not only violated Bells theorem it maximally violated Bells theorem so um classical physics is wrong and I mean there was another article just a couple years last showing that quantum entanglement is not a Quantum phenomenon Quantum as in Quantum scale it is they have proven it to be at macroscopic scale they see it at over centimeter scales they see it over meter scales they're seeing it over up to temperatures of a th000 Kelvin High pressures I mean all of a sudden we're going from these little fragile Quantum states of molecules and atoms and whatnot or even photons and they have to be quiescent they have to be cryogenically cool can have any thermal jittering from background heat or or acoustical VI vibrations and they have to be Quantum system it has to be a photon or or a molecule or an atom and here we're finding blocks of crystals and uh macroscopic scale objects that are actually exhibiting the effects of quantum manglement in what way oh it's I'd have to dig it out to find it it's it's it's a whole bunch of things um one when primary here's one primary one the process of photosynthesis converting um solar energy into um is it sugars in the in the plant that the plant consumes probably okay well anyway it's the process of photosynthesis photosynthesis had never actually amazingly enough as well as the photosynthesis Theory worked it was still not a closed Theory um when physicists looked at it in detail they found out that the energy conversion process was inefficient it it didn't in other words the physics prediction of how it worked didn't match the high efficiency seen experimental they got to be specific Eric the classical physics explanation yeah that's um so this is biochemical that's what it is it's a chemical explanation so the chemistry of photosynthesis predicts that sunlight comes in you're going to have all these chemical reactions going on and you're going to have energy come out into the biology of the plant you know it's whatever energizes the plant right it's getting energy out of it to live okay well they found out that the efficiency is bad it's so bad that there's a gap in the energy conversion and they and all of a sudden it's like wait a minute this theory has been so well understood so locked down how is it that this Gap uh has been existing all this time and we didn't realize it chemistry should have been able to biochemistry should have been able to clean this up you don't even have to have biochemistry just straight up organic chemistry of light hitting the surface of the cell you got the basic sugars and whatever and things going on uh uh Along come some physicists who took a look at this and I don't know the motivation involved but what happened is they decided to uh they discovered that it was quantum entanglement that solved the problem there's quantum entanglement going on in the reaction that keeps the cell going supports life on Earth yeah and it turns out that that quantum entanglement was necessary to close the efficiency and energy conversion Gap and it closed it perfectly so in other words PL can't convert sunlight into cell energy without entanglement so essentially it's an Miracle happen no that was the miracle that's what I mean yeah that was the Mir that's right okay so so let me let me add so that's a macroscopic version of quantum quantum entanglement is necessary for photosynthesis to to completely work properly yeah and it's not on a Quantum level yeah a macroscopic level so that's awesome I I heard that that's not Bruce lion involv no that's somebody else so let's well let's forget about the delayed Choice thing and let me ask you uh about I I started to say earlier one of the reasons that I heard uh thought when I heard Campbell stuff is that he might be on to something with his digital VR physics because it gives the only only explanation I've ever heard from any physicist of why light in uh a certain case is a maximum now you mean has a finite speed yeah has a finite speed limit and it's the maximum speed limit no it's not a maximum finite speed I'm saying a maximum in a special I can Infinity is a maximum speed limit classically so the um and I've never heard you know I've heard all the explanations of how you prove that it's that it's it has the value there it has a value but why i' never heard until this digital VR explanation which is the I mean digital VR is saying that basically we're we're living in a simulated reality that's that's digital U that acts the same way it's analogous to digital virtual reality Games people play where you're like the Matrix yeah yeah and you know world Warcraft whatever where you're there's a server serving that reality on a constant time Loop and it's rendering that reality every T um and on your computer screen your resolution is determined by how many pixels you've got and so on well the digital VR physics explanation of the nature of this reality is that it operates similarly so that with each delta T you get a render of this reality and the resolution is determined by the plank length which I know determine determines a plank Cube that's that's analogous to a pixel on them on a monitor and because the the delta T is so fast that we get a new render every 10 the minus 43 seconds that even the fast you know a jet airplane or whatever is going to take millions of renders before its Leading Edge is going to hit the next PL Cube but light is so fast that with every render of a frame of reality its bleeding edge is hitting the next plank Cube It's always on the next plank Cube it's going so fast but it can't go any faster than that unless it's going to skip plank cubes in a render and that would be teleportation you know teleportation well if you're skipping plank what however you want to say it's we understand that light is moving constantly through space so that it's it's can't have its speed added to it it's not uh okay well there's something more parsimonious than that and uh we have experiments that have already demonstrated that there are no plank cubes Unfortunately they have been looking for that that has an equivalence in in Quantum graph where SpaceTime at the plon scale looks like a foamy structure like the head of a beer or soda um it's called quantum foam the quantum foam is like a bunch of little mini wormholes popping in and out of existence mold it's called mully connected space what that means is space has holes punching in it there's all kinds of hole donnut Holes going in and out of existence fluctuating and they occur at the plunk Lan and at the plunk scale of 1035 m and there are predictions cosmological predictions of what that should do to quazar light when it's emitted from a quazar and it reaches our telescopes over cosmological distances and there are happen to be quazars that pop into existence and just lucky enough an astronom will detect them uh even supernovas and distant galaxies do the same thing and and they emit all they all emit gamma radiation gamma radiation is the highest radiation we know of in the electromagnetic spectrum and so it's very high energy so the it it's at Ultra short wavelength and high energy and it's perfect for being a diagnostic of plant fluctuations in space as it propagates through space and so they've already determined that the effects the accumulated effects of maybe a 100 million or a billion light years of travel of a of a of a gamma ray from a quazar event or a supernova event to the Earth's telescope SC that accumulated distance of of 100 million to a billion light years of space travel is going to add up a whole bunch of plunk foam fluctuations acting on that gamma ray the consequence of that would be to shift its frequency okay we know what it's frequency is like in the lab but then how does that frequency compare when it hits the telescope is there a shifted frequency um and they have not seen it they've done a a handful of experiments using different detector methods different methodologies for uh looking at these things and measuring them and they all have not seen any sign of frequency shifting of gamma rays going through space due to plunk due to the plun fluctuations in the vacuum so what that means is if you have plun volume of a virtual reality then it should have been there it should have been seen because it doesn't matter whether you call it vacuum fluctuations of of the geometry of space or whether you call it the plunk volumes of virtual reality they're still going to have an effect on on a on a on a Gamay going through it after a billion years of travel billion light years of travel I'm sorry in distance so you're saying that supports the idea that you don't have plank yeah because you're just not seeing the frequency shifts that would be associated with any kind of plant length structure whether it be in space itself using via the Einstein model for SpaceTime as a geometry or whether it' be that because that has to to support the propagation of light through that structure and we're not seeing frequency shifts and so you're saying that instead supports the idea of this phone no it does not it shows the phone doesn't exist oh so you're saying that the plon the fact that we don't observe the frequen sh frequency shift of distant gamma rays arriving at Earth means that the plun foam is not there I I we're getting a null result so I didn't realize PL foam was what was phone's everywhere it's going to have to be because space is uniform isotropic homogeneous okay okay under the theory is going to be everywhere but we just heard from you that it isn't everywhere it isn't anywhere anywhere you just said that foam can't exist or You' see a frequency ships in G radiation no I'm saying the frequency shifts are indicating that the plung Pham doesn't exist yes okay well likewise that's that that's the Einstein model of SpaceTime at a Quantum level uh actually it's wheeler it's really John Wheeler's model okay now he's talking about a virtual reality where we're going to have plunk cubes which is his equivalent of the P yeah uh I don't know it it doesn't have to be but if he's structuring space that's almost sounds like the quantum uh lattice or Quantum Loop Theory and I can't can't remember who bed Quantum Loop Theory but uh Quantum Loops are on the order of a PL L and we just don't see the structure so so now I need to resolve what sounds like a contradiction in what you're saying first of all you say that the nonshift frequency sh shift in gamma radiation that you're not getting a frequency shift emitted by a quazar or super that would be associated with the effects of either this or with fo yeah you're saying that doesn't exist and yet with in another sentence you said that the quantum foam is everywhere so is there quantum foam or is there not no you're not understanding me I'm saying I was just answering this question because I thought he said quantum foam is not everywhere I thought that's what one of you guys said I said so are you saying based on the fact that you're not seeing a frequency shift are you saying that there is no quantum foam and then you say yes there is okay I I I didn't understand it okay okay the answer is no uh the the the lack of frequency shift indicates that there is not there's not appear to be any Quantum right anywhere then because you know it doesn't matter which way you look at a quazar in space you'll see one there you'll see one there you see a super over here back there they're emitting gamma rays and you just don't see the signs I got you okay so P foam is a failed Theory based on observation yeah based on the lack of evidence lack of this is that theory so what do we have instead of quantum foam what do we have well there's the quantum loops and I think are uh I think that's also a problem and then I don't know if if his virtual reality it's hard to say I I don't I don't know his theory so I don't know what he's saying uh it's either there's either going to be a very real consequence for space to explain what space is see space is not nothing space is a physical structure and we already know that Quantum mechanically Quantum mechanically we know that space is still with Quantum vacuum fluctuation but they're not the vacuum fluctuations of John wheelers and Einstein space geometry space is not a geometry geometry is points lines and curves okay but space is not such a thing space behaves like an optical medium like a prison through which or a tank of water through which a beam of light goes through we're back to The Ether it is an ether and Einstein reinserted The Ether with General relity the either of geometry the SpaceTime metric was Einstein's either and Einstein was asked about that and he said well guess what folks I just said that SpaceTime is a stretchable elastic material the SpaceTime metric is the mathematical quantity that describes that stretching of SpaceTime guess what I just reintroduced either into relativity Theory okay but that's an either geometry and we know that when astronauts fly into space they're not bumping into a bunch of differential manifolds and points and neighborhoods of points and mappings of functions and and differential equations and all that crap that's all mathematical that's all Visual and imaginative it produces physics very well when you do uh experimental predictions based on but that's not physical space quantum theory says the physical space is filled with vacuum fluctuations fluctuations of what matter and any kind of a field that uh that um that uh propagates a force of nature so um can this be digital digital so the just just think of the quantum Fields as an infinite array of coupled harmonic oscillators little balls connected to other little balls by a spring and there's other little balls connected to those by Spring us that example yesterday they used that example yesterday okay so you have an array of all these little balls of massless they don't have mass they're just IDE realiz Point little balls that are connected to each other across the universe infinitely and they're connected by uh Springs and they're vibrating and when they vibrate a certain way they're representing the electromagnetic field when they vibrate in another way they're representing firion in elementary particle physics when they vibrate or like quarks and electrons for example if they vibrate another particular way that would be uh yeah never mind when when they vibrate another way they would represent the higs B on and whatnot okay so what's the difference between that and a string theory a string string is a whole different freaking so don't answer that question yet because you haven't solved what you're actually trying to get at and he's only partway through that so vacuum fluctuations his question I think what the heck are they is that your question okay so it's it's the infinite field of all these couple oscillators vibrating okay now when you turn the temperature off when you turn off their energy it should classically it says the whole field of oscillators should go at Absolute rest they should be still at Absolute no motion whatsoever there should be no VI oscillations of the of the oscillators oscillators I mean no vibrations of the oscillators oscillators should classically be absolutely still but Heisenberg's uncertainty principle says that at the quantum scale of har there's no such thing as an absolutely quiescent uh space time in other words energy is fuzzy time is fuzzy space is fuzzy and momentum is fuzzy when you get to the absolute minimum of of Zero Energy Zero temperature kinetic and potential energy of a system the total energy of the system comprising its kinetic motion and its potential energy um classical Newtonian physics says the whole system is dead zero there's no energy but quantum theory says because of the fuzzy nature of space and time energy and momentum that you will never have a zero uh infinite field oscillat the oscillators will come down to what's the minimum Quantum amount of oscillation they will have H bar Omega uh well no that's an energy they will have the oscillation of H bar over two and the quantum energy Quantum energy of a system like a particle will be H Omega over two and that's a Zero Point Energy that means at the zero point of temperature it's going to have an energy that's not zero classically it has to be zero quantum theory says it has to be 1 half of an energy of a photon or the energy of a vibration where Omega is the vibrational frequency so the vacuum is never totally silent the vacuum is not quiescent it's not silent it's not so now let's go back it's not deadline like a heart attack there you go so let's go back to the final question or the final question here what is what are those pairs what the part the the spring connecting the little things connected by the string by the by the spring what are those things Oh you mean the oscillators yeah oh the oscillators can be anything they could be electromagnetic oscillators for the electromagnetic field the oscillators for the electric fi the electron field uh the oscillators for the cork field the oscillators for the gluon field so what is an oscillator for a quark field a quark oscillator it's it's a Quark itself well that's a quantized quark yeah you you picture that the vacuum of a quark okay a quark's vacuum state is going to have Quantum fluctuation okay okay all right now the cork particle is above the vacuum it's it's an in other words okay particles are an excited vacuum okay okay photon is the excited vacuum state of of electromagnetic field okay that's what that represent okay a photon is just the excited vacuum it's excited so that represents one Quantum of light so then this goes and the field go you'll have what are these what they also refer to as virtual particle pairs that is the other there's okay there are multiple vacuums okay there's oh yes there's not one vacuum my friend we have the quantum vacuum is very very complicated there's no such thing as a single vacuum it is a multiple vacuum that coexist with each other okay keep talking okay now what you just asked about is the direct vacuum the direct vacuum is the vacuum of fion light still yeah everybody's okay the dra vacuum is the vacuum of ferons okay f are particles with okay fion are particles with one half spin those are electrons and quirks simp um if they're multiple vacuums are you saying that all all of those multiple vacuums IST coexist to create just this physical reality or are the so yes that's exactly it it's it's the vacuum state of the physical reality physical reality is not a vacuum State that's a state where this matter is excited to form the table you know matter in him is excited to form the atoms in him and the elementary particles that form his atoms the vacuum is is the Quantum is the is the uh state of no particles where there's no Quantum particle representing that field so it's a very complic I know it's a very difficult thing to understand but that's how we mathematically represent it uh so if you have a photon with energy H bar Omega that's plant's reduced constant times the frequency of the photon all right that the then the vacuum state for that Photon for that light field represented by the photon is now going to be H one half of that right H bar Omega over two okay so I I I think think we've got roughly going that but now we go back to the question he has is it possible the universe is digital it's all information which is one of the pop I don't know it's uh I can't say yes I can't say no two from what you're saying to me there's there's two other possibilities that below those cojin spring connected um qu you have oscillators for quarks oscillators for electrons oscillators oscillators all the way down oscillators and and multi all they're all interweaving okay good so to me it sounds like you could be creating those digitally they could be virtual and although I've not really followed this but it sounds like these oscillators it's very close to instead of saying two balls connected by a string you could to by a spring you could have a loop of a string that's vibrating sounds like the quantum super string um I stayed away from it because it's uh that's so heavy and uh it's it it doesn't go it's not going anywhere anymore I'm not particularly interested myself it's just a a plunk size plunk length onedimensional object I don't I think they will have a mass I think their Mass would be associated with a particle so that you're going to have a vibrating string it vibrates one particular way it represents an electron vibrates another way it represents the Quantum graviton the quantum gravity particle which is called the graviton it vibrates another way it's going to represent a quirk it vibrates a different way it's going to be a glue one and and these oscillators are doing the same thing the way depending well these oscillators no no no that no that's just the analogy of quantum field Theory super string theory is a completely different thing okay super String Theory does not make use of the of the oscillator field analogy that I just gave you for electromagnetic radiation as a as a first principle and is there any experimental evidence at this point of the the oscillator Theory uh no that that's a mathematical Foundation to build Quantum field Theory from it's not that you're looking for that that's just that's just the math we use the math we use that best predicts the phenomena we observe in nature is a Quantum harmonic oscillator equation the the hamiltonian is a total energy uh that's a Quantum op that's a Quantum operator that represents the total energy of a system a Quantum system it represents the sum of the kinetic energy plus the potential energy and the hamiltonian that we use is the harmonic oscillator hamiltonian that we use to model the quantum field that's why so isn't the lamb shift haven't you guys in the past the lamb shift is a direct verification of the existence of the effect of quantum Z Point Energy on the uh fine structure of the El Ron ground state orbit and hydrogen atom and then uh there was actually one earlier than that before quantum theory was even published in 1924 somebody did a boron monoxide experiment and saw a shift in the Spectrum which could only be explained by the effect of quantum Zer Point Energy on the electrons so there is some experimental verification oh more than that the quantum the cmir effect is a direct verification of that there was this question you want to know if there's if there was I don't know what the lamp shift lamp shft lamb shift it's where an electron shift States it's it's an hydrogen atom it's the hydrogen atom orbits okay electron orbits a proton and a hydrogen atom uh but there are little these little fine sh fine structure they call it little different shifts in the orbit it's not a perfect orbit and it's shifted by various things like external electric Fields magnetic fields and whatnot well they find that there's a little ship that Willis land discovered and it's due to the fact that the vacuum fluctuations in space are constantly hitting that electron and the consequence of them hitting that electron it's like a pressure being exerted on that electron so it shifts its orbit by so many whatever and the measure of that shift is usually given in terms of an energy unit or a frequency unit corresponding to the shift of the orbital from one from one place to another place so uh it it the frequency shift would be on the order of uh couple something like 100 megaherz or whatever and you multiply that by har bar and whatever you and you get the energy equivalent of that ship so it's kind of like a per being affected by Brown in Motion in a fluid in a way yeah that's essentially like what Einstein was looking at this stuff he said yeah that's uh all the original mathematical development for fluctuations it's called the fluctuation dissipation theorem all started with the experimentation with brown motion and Einstein did a lot of I don't know how many papers he did but I know he did Publications if not one on brownan motion and he pioneered a lot of the subject himself okay good well now I'm the oscillate what what do we call the oscillating Theory what's what do you call that theory of the various vacuums the ill well it's just Quantum field Theory Quantum field Theory yeah so um that has to do with the experiments you guys are doing here wait a second you need a clear answer Quantum field Theory covers a much broader range than yeah it covers everything so what does that particular as particular one with the oscillating the spring loaded oscillators what is that theory called no like I said that's just the picture for which we uh designed the hamiltonian to represent the total energy of all he wants to know is what is that subset of quantum field Theory called that refers the the vacuum fluctuation that we've been discussing oh it doesn't have a name oh it doesn't no that's it's just it's just the vacuum state of a field okay that's all that is I call it the oscillating Theory not it's not um all right um the springloaded oscillating the U but so that sounds to me like that has to do that mathematics or whatever you want to call it has to do with your experiments here because you're yeah I mean we exploit theoretically exploit the use of quantum vacuum fluctuations to look at things involving the warping of SpaceTime for the uh for uh altering uh in Einstein's picture be altering the geometry of space to create a space warp that allows you to go faster in line in Hal's model how has the polarizable vacuum model of general relativity po polarizable vacuum representation of general relativity and that's not using the Einstein geometry instead we're using the vacuum fluctuations vacuum fluctuations are like the atoms in a prism a glass those atoms are electrically polarizable and polarized glass has something to do with whether light propagates slow or fast then its vacuum value okay compared to its vacuum value and the equivalent of that actually reproduces general relativity so what you see in the geometry picture of space time can be reproduced up to a certain point by the uh Optical medium or the either version of of Relativity general relativity where the vacuum is not uh a geometry but it's an actual physical either it's a plenum of quan backing fluctuation and if you exert an external feel you can p on that on those fluctuations you can polarize them and the consequences of the polarization could either speed up this increase the speed of light or decrease the speed of light or and the and the consequences of that have the equivalent of producing a wormhole or what work drive and so you're saying that very recently published research confirms that view uh this just just theoretically now very recent research uh theoretical studies on using Quantum field Theory have confirmed that view for the definition of the speed of light they've actually been able to Define by calculation using those vacuum fluctuations what the constants of universal constants are when you multiply them together it's the uh electric field permitivity the magnetic field permeability uh of vacuum and they have const fixed constants no one ever understood why that is you multiply the two together take the square root invert it and that's the speed of light so they've been able to calculate that from first principles using Quantum vacuum fluctuations for the first time so that shows you that the speed of light has its finite Universal value because it's going through a polarized vacuum it's being in other words it's like a beam of light going through a block of glass that that energy and that beam of light is being absorbed by the at in the glass re Reit it reabsorb Reit it reabsorb so that that darn light can cannot move at the vacuum value because it's not in vacuum it's being slowed down it's being dragged down like there's friction there's a friction acting on it from the re constant reabsorptions reemission so in this case the vacuum itself is just like as a nonlinear Optical medium it's got uh fluctuations and dissipations going on among the fluctuating fields of nature and it just so happens that those fluctuating fields are slowing the speed of light down from whatever value it could be it probably could be infinite slowing it down to a finite value that we observe it today and unless it needs a medium to propagate through because it is a medium yeah okay well that is a medium but if if light needed a medium to propagate through if there was no medium it doesn't have a theoretical infinite speed it cannot go any faster than the medium within which it probably I don't know the answer to that question because I've never seen anybody do a calculation where if there's no median well look classically it's always been treated that vacuum is not a medium that's right and and so it always has a find out but that's that's inco that's in congruent we don't know using that picture that classical picture why the speed of light has the value it does here with the point of vacuum fluctu fluctuation being the medium of space that explains why the speed of light has its finite Val but recall no no emanation can propagate without a medium that the kind of medium it requires to propagate you don't get sound going through a vacuum because there's nothing to propagate it right correct so if you so light is propagating across that that probably is its own it means yeah that that's its medium of propagation and so this it's almost meaningless to talk about light without the vacuum that's right that's meaningless there is no there's no such thing yeah because the vacuum is not a zero state right it it's not there we don't know what a zero state is well it's not because vacuum is a zero state because light needs that Medium that's right that's right and hence saying that light might have an infinite speed if it didn't have a vacuum if it didn't have vacuum fluctuations is essentially a nony yeah the two papers that got published were in the European physics journal D and I've got them I can print them out for you they're very teal I that's okay I we understand the concept yeah yeah yeah but I think this I think that case um I'm not sure if they used the particle pairs of the direct vacuum they might have done that m I think that's what they were using with the particle pairs like the like the virtual electron and Quirk pairs okay so I'm looking for just a yes or no here okay is uh say how's work on and whoever else is involved in here on momentum and inertia is that you mean mass and inertia all right mass and inertia is that proposed in terms of the direct particle field or some other aspect of the vacuum he started that no it's the answer is no he he began that on the basis of the electromagnetic vacuum good that's all I want to and that's a mistake because he now knows that the vacuum is more complicated than that you don't have one vacuum you got several here are the vacuum you have the electromagnetic vacuum and you have the let's let's start with forces in nature we have three forces gravity is not a force by the way when Einstein derived general relativity it removed gravity as a fundamental force of nature it proved that gravity is an emergent force it emerges from curving curving SpaceTime SpaceTime curvature the change in Geometry around but you just said that that's wrong that space isn't geometric well I know well that's that's the next step we already know Einstein's general theory isn't perfect we already know it has problems it works beautifully I mean it it it uh predicts all the phenomena we've observed including the really bizarre stuff and there are more to uh to verify more predictions we have to verify experimentally before we wrap it up but it has other problems okay and I'm not going to get that's besides the Point okay so uh my train of thought is lost so I got to get back no you're saying you're talking about the three forces and your okay yes so um it's an emergent Theory and it resides within the fact that a mass or a glom of energy in a local region of space will bend that space and that bending is what we feel is gravity it's not that there's there's not a fundamental force and you wanted to address the three so the three forces of nature are really the the electromagnetic force the weak Force which is responsible for radioactive decay and particle particles changing their identity and um which is a form which is another way of saying particle Decay okay uh and the strong nuclear force which is basically the force of quirks and gluons okay all right so uh so you've got those three things the different kinds of vacuums yeah so you got those three things to deal with and how's analysis didn't consider those other things now here's the interesting thing it was shown later on by Steven Weinberg and OB Salon who got the Nobel Prize in physics 4 unifying the electromagnetic force with the weak Force so that force is called the electro weak Force so it turns out that the vacuum for the electromagnetic field the quantum vacuum is the same vacuum for the weak field because it's not two separate forces they're the same Force okay at low energy they break apart and be and appear to be separate forces but when you look at the fundamentals of the weak Force we we force is buil up out of the photon States okay photons are the quantized electromagnetic field okay so um so there's really now you're really down to two real vacuum uh vacua uh the electro weak vacua which is BAS a vacuum which is basically the vacuum of the electromagnetic and the wheat Force UniFi and then the two vacuum structures that are buried within the court force and that's another story and that story is so where is the dire field fit in there is that one no string is out because we're direct oh direct field Theory or the direct part of the theory is that a sub one of those or is it a yeah it's in the yeah Drax Drax equation is used in court Theory okay it is used to build the field Theory the the the equation how was originally talking about yeah so how how was doing the electromagnetic okay so what how left out was now it doesn't matter that you leave off the weed Force that's actually ridiculous because actually the weak force is weaker than the electromagnetic force so you could you could and the weak Force only acts on the scale of in less than the size of a proton okay so that's how unimportant it is okay it only acts within the scale over the scale within the size of a proton so or the volume so you don't need to worry about the weat force just focus on that electromagnetic now for the strong force okay the strong force has to do with a dual vacuum structure it's got two two vacuum and you have the vac we need for our house yeah this is really scary um it depends upon the type of particles you have you have what are called hadrons and hadrons are the class of particles that have two different classes of particles buried in the subclasses of hyrons are masons and the other subass of hyrons are Barons the Barons are the protons and neutrons that form our Atomic nuclei okay that's a barion had the m ons are actually uh temporary transient particles they are a particle which is actually a vacuum a living vacuum fluctuation it is a quirk anti- quork pair but they don't annihilate because it's because to annihilate you have to have the same quk and its anti- particle in order to annihilate like for example uh you know they up and down strange top and bottom quirks and charm quirks okay for a quirk anti- quork pair to annihilate it has to be the up Quirk and The anti-up Quirk Okay Okay the reason why Masons don't disappear in a flash of annihilated energy like gam and whatnot is because they're made out of a of an up Quirk and an anti-d down quk or a strange Quirk and an anti- charm quk or a bottom Quirk and they don't match they don't match that's right they cannot annihilate so the only way a particle anti-particle pair can annihilate is if the two particles in the pair are the matching oppos yeah so so when they're not matching anti-particle particle pairs they cannot annihilate so that's why Masons are long lived okay okay well that is a vacuum fluctuation because those are virtual those particle pairs come out of the vacuum and they live for a period of time and the purpose of what they do is they transmit the strong one part of the strong nuclear force the the Barons those are the things that form matter okay that that's what our the nuclei of atoms are build out of neutrons protons and they excited versions of those and we don't need to worry about those Barons have you said you said the um the um you said they were virtual yes the Masons are composed of virtual electron I mean virtual P ahead meaning there meaning there is no masks or what what what do you mean they have a mask they have a Mas they have a mask associated with the energy the the court and he wants toal why virtual means that they are uh they don't they're not they don't live in our world they live in the in the world that we don't have access to you got to come with a better explanation than that I can't they're they're in a even physicists don't give it let's just say it's a shadow world where all the vacuum fluctuations live the vacuum state of everything we don't we don't feel that we don't interact it sence scientific instruments can but all of us we don't have any okay it's like a shadow universe in our at our level of existence okay okay so I think you're interested here because the word virtual sounds somewhat like what Camp's talking about yeah see that's what we're I'm trying to get to eventually good go there okay okay now the uh now the Barons have three quirks any combination of three cours okay now inside them it turns out that they have there's a vacuum inside you know why those quarks have really low mass matter of fact those quirks almost are just a couple of hundred times more massive than electrons surprisingly or something on that uh okay something on that order okay so they're very low mass and as a matter of fact they happen to be at the ground state those quirks inside protons and neutrons live in the ground state well the ground state is the oldfashioned quantum mechanical uh terminology for vacuum state so those you know what the mass of those uh protons and neutrons really are than FEA that's right that was another big paper just a couple years ago somebody used a whole bunch of supercomputers they used Quark Theory uh yeah they Ed it's called Quantum chromodynamics that's the field theory for quarks and gluons build up out of the direct equation okay that theory can't predict the mass of the proton or the neutron and it should because you've got the energy of the three quirks inside that that bag we we say that the body that produces the proton and neutron is a bag there's some kind of a boundary condition there and the nature of the force of quirks is they don't fly free they're absolutely bound inside that bag and they can never fly free unless they're hit by a lot of energy that can break them apart temporarily and then they're going to go back to being bound again so we've gone from String Theory to Bag Theory I got it keep going okay you tie the bag the as a matter of fact it's called it's called ASM totic freedom in other words the Cor about that go ahead okay the quirks are bound together by Three Springs the Springs have very powerful spring coefficients to pull one of these quirks or any all three of the quirks away from the center where all the Springs come together the further part you pull them the harder it becomes to pull because the spring coefficient climbs exponentially so when they're inside that little tiny bag which is the size of a Proton or Neutron or any other barion they're free to move around they free they just Bounce Around free inside there but if you start trying to pull one of those or both of those or all three of those quirks out beyond the dis beyond the radius of the bag forget it that the string the string coefficient the I'm sorry the spring coefficient of the of the of the quantum chromodynamic Force increases linearly it increases linearly and it pulls those quirks back in okay all right so this this is setting the stage here so just bear with me so so those three quarts are running around loose and free on the inside of that bag so and they have very and they have ground state energy vacuum State energy very low mass all right turns out that most of what's in that bag is vacuum just empty space so they didn't know how to use quantum thermodynamics field Theory to calculate the mass of the proton based on that model when they did the calculation finally for the first time ever they got the mass of the proton perfect to within like uh I don't remember whole bunch of desmal places it was like a Six Sigma calculation I think it was okay for the first time and you know what that you know what gave it that answer most of the mass in the proton is vacuum energy is due to the vacuum energy like 0.001% of the mass of the proton is due to the quirks alone that means over 99% of the mass of the Quark is due to the vacuum energy contained inside of it but is that any different inside than is outside yes that's a free vacuum inside where the quirks can bounce around on the outside where the quirks can't be pulled out that's called the Frozen vacuum that is called the Frozen vacuum that's because the uh because now you're in the region where the spring Force the spring connect coupling those three quirks together is so powerful the quirks you you can't do anything with them those if you get those quirks out of the bag right there they're just froze they're stuck there uh and I'm using a very crude analogy here yeah um so it's called the Frozen non-pa vacuum in other don't worry about that terminology but it just means that U you in a different vacuum on the outside of the barion on the outside of the proton on the outside of the neutron then you are on the inside and that has a completely different energy associated with it okay so let's let's take your protons and let's So and I've got a I've got a good book to give you guys I can print it out for you that one of my professors at the University of Arizona wrote back in the 80s called the struct the structured vacuum and he goes through that whole thing he and his buddy burnt Mueller another physicist have a conversational inter interaction with each other where they're burnt talks ref felski talks and they're asking and answering each other's questions and they have graphical illustration you guys will love it because it will perfectly explain everything I've said okay so my next just brief question because it's not necessarily gerain but okay so you youve got one kind of vacuum inside the Barry on right okay inside the bar wait no no let me say it right you've got one kind of vacuum inside you've got it now when I say kind I don't necessarily mean ontologically different I just mean it's it's yeah it is by the way it has a name anything inside anything that's bounded by a boundary condition that has a boundary condition involved whether whether it's a ball two parallel plates a parallel pipe it things like that it's called the Casmir vacuum all right so energy so the vacuum inside that that Proton or Neutron is a Casmir vacuum the energy on the outside is not it's a melted vacuum okay melted vacuum stop right there melted Vu I'm sorry I'm sorry that's a wrong word it's the Frozen vacuum right that's what you said before froz no stop right there and you just gave me the answer I forgot that Casmir vacuum has a second name because those quirks are loose and free because the spring has nearly zero spring Force inside it's called the melded vacuum it's because the Frozen vacuum on the in on the outside is melted on the inside that's why the the quirks are like they're in a liquid they're they're bouncing around like a gas like a gas good now you've got the melted vacuum inside the barri correct the you have the Frozen vacuum but then do you have when you get outside of that area is there a different vacuum superposing the Frozen Quirk vacuum is the electromag electromagnetic vacuum I see okay that's where they coexist I see whether the electromagnetic vacuum exists inside of a barion we don't know because I don't know Maxwell's equations have ever been taken down to that level actually it's Quantum electrodynamics so it might be a matter of scale that would keep that from happen yeah and I don't know who's done any work on that uh I know that the equations for quirks do involve color charge because quirks have one3 electric charge they also have color that's the nature of the strong force that's another charge well the the equations that describe the interaction looks just like Maxwell's equations of electrodynamics you have electric forces and magnetic forces but those are acting on the color charges now I have you're off track huh we're trying to get to the virtual part okay well that's it the virtual part has to do with the uh very interesting well the virtual part would be the Frozen vacuum we don't experience the Frozen vacuum so that's got to be the virtual vacuum for quirks and gluons well that doesn't explain the term virtual at all I know look virtual just think of it as a shadow a shadow universe that that we live in we our instruments can see it can feel it but we can't because we're too big scale it's operating it's operating it's operating out everywhere it surrounds us but we can't see what it's doing well that's maybe you should read rafelski Mueller's book and you might get a better idea it might give you a big better pict I think it give me a headache but that's okay but they use common language you know there's some there's some jargon but they don't go out of the way to I'm more worried about mathematical there's map okay good this is there's no map well maybe at some point then not this was a beautiful little book they they went out of print and you get a PDF of it for free on the internet so I'll print it out for you it's like send me the like excuse me send me the L you okay oh I'll just send you the PDF I don't have the how many of these shadow vacuums are there well if you reduce out the fact that the weak force is really the electromagnetic force then there's an electromagnetic vacuum and there's two court vacuum two two two Quantum chromodynamic vacuum and now that they've discovered the Hig particle that is a vacuum so it has its own vacuum okay just a brief side thing you are you think they have discovered the higs particle don't explain it just say as or not because I don't want to detract from where we were going they haven't confirmed it to my satisfaction okay good that's what I how I felt about it yeah they have not confirmed it to my satisfaction and even they have said even they're saying they they feel even now they have said they confirmed it but they said that that did not exclude the existence of other higs particles and that's the first time I ever heard of other higs particles I am a student of quantum field Theory and when I was brought up at the University of Arizona in the 80s there was only one freaking higs particle that ever existed in the standard model that was added into the standard model of particle physics and all of a sudden some I haven't been paying attention to the higs theory so between then and now somehow there's been an explosion of additional Hig particles I don't know how many there are so they're saying okay we definitely see the one but that does not exclude the existence of others at the at nearby Mass so par parsimony is being complicated yeah it's getting more complicated yeah okay I just don't know that higs is going to live up to its uh height its reputation as being the particle that gives Mass to particles um or the field that gives M to particles the original HS concept I understood and and I understood that in its ground state its vacuum State there is a coupling to other fields of nature the other vacu up that make the particles like the electron and it will give Mass to the electron it will give Mass to the neutrino it'll give Mass to quirks and whatnot but they don't know what the coupling Co coefficients are between the vacuum state of the higs and the mass and the hick Theory doesn't even predict that the hick Theory doesn't even predict what the vacuum state is and the higs vacuum state is what gives it its energy okay good so I'm notam jump in yeah so they have discovered at least that but I'm not I'm not satisfied until I see like a Six Sigma result they claimed they're uh Somewhere Out going up to four Sigma 5 Sigma by now oh I think they said they've got five Sigma that's pretty convincing but they still need to do more statistics to see what the darn thing is okay all right so we have these shadow at least Shadow vacuum structur yeah vacuum structures which sound like more mathematical constructs no it's physical okay well it it is based on the fact that there it is predicted by a mathal am amazingly we see its consequences in experiments okay so um one of the reasons that might actually be what he's talking about and he's Miss he I don't know what he's doing so he may have it in there and I and and I don't know it or he may be missed disconnecting he he's not he's got a disconnect there I think the part of is he uses a different vocabulary than you do and so the question is if you're talking about the same thing or not yeah that's a good question is his virtual reality the Shadow the virtual vacuum fluctuations or is it something different is it a is it a an overlayer of the vacuum fluctuations of nature or is it below that