UAP Hearing 03

Transcript

of the email and that an intelligence agency basically pulled it back and instructed the the author of the email hey this is you you just conducted what they call spillage into a lower classification level and when that's done the procedures are basically to remove any of the communication you're going to Silo it so um and you Mr Alando you said in your report and and your your testimony today um a government work on the UAP subject Still Remains classified excessive secrecies led to grave misdeeds against loyal civil servants military personnel in the public all to hide the fact that we are not alone in the cosmos Fair yes sir all right and and all of you and and and Mr shenberger by the way I've read several of your books Mr shenberg excellent stuff uh what I would say too is um you were asked about the veracity of the author of this report you comfortable with veracity yes okay okay and then uh and I'll get to you in a second Mr Gold we'll talk about cian and laosan uh scientific uh advancement and our we're obviating that through these processes but we'll get to that in a sec because what I want to really get to is um the ultimate question Al really becomes this for what purpose is the federal government over classifying because that's what they're doing they're over classifying and forbidding the public for getting access to this and and if you know if you have an explanation I'm I'm curious because um I I know what I've been told I just want to know from your perspective why do they over classify Mr Alando you look like you're finger on the button ready to go yes sir forgive me um I think there's several reasons um I think at the time when this first this this reality became evident to the US government we were um in the middle of the cold war with then Soviet Union and we did not want to tip our hands to what um our knowledge base was on this topic we did not want to broadcast that to uh the cold Wars cold war is long over it is her it is her uh there's also then the philosophical argument that um the Department of Defense and the intelligence Community is solution oriented and when you don't have answers it's it's a really tough spot to be in it's easier to be quiet and suppressed than if you don't have the answer indeed sir in fact there's a there's a very real example uh when we built the U2 spy plane and flew it over then um Russia and we're taking reconnaissance and when we first started flying the aircraft it flew so high and so fast we thought they were attracting Us in reality they were attracting every flight it wasn't until the Russian Russians could develop the sa2 surface ter missile and successfully shoot I would suggest to you also along with lakatos and and you also have a problem with Kenneth Arrow's um path dependence or increasing returns that's one reason why they won't disclose it it's too painful to admit but I just want to read a couple things from Mr shellenberger uh what he gave to us today because I think this is uh this is interesting stuff and and and and I just want to convey this to you on USG networks there exist infrared footage of and and imagery of a grouping of vessels engaged in signant and mass collection at night in a specific area of the Pacific Ocean this footage which was in close proximity to the vessels a large equilateral triangle UAP suddenly appears directly over the ships these bright three Bri uh excuse me three bright points are seen at each bottom corner of the uip which is observed to slowly rotate on its horizontal axis and he goes on to describe that uh and I just want to read one more and I'm doing this because uh I think I think it's interesting this is stuff as interesting uh as as anything so let's get this one here right here while performing a routine airspace surveillance and control mission in the Eastern air defense sector an F22 fighter observed multiple UAP contacts at Mission altitude moving to intercept the F-22 pilot noted multiple metallic orbs slightly smaller than a sedan hovering in place upon vectoring towards the uaps a smaller formation of the metallic orbs accelerated at rapid speed towards the F22 which was unable to establish radar locks on the presumed hostile uaps the F-22 broke trajectory and attempted to evade but was intercepted and Boxed In by approximately 3 to six uaps um and then I'll leave that there but because I I just have no more time left uh I well she's not looking so let's just get into let's let's get into to to part of this I thought I would be saved by the dev yeah no no let's talk about kunian laosan type of uh scientific development and the problem that we have here is you have institutional blockage of what would be normal development of scientific ideas and uh if you want to expand that Mr we're over time be very fast please um I'll just say I'm a recovering attorney so please take it EAS me on the science but uh all breakthroughs have been heretical at first and that's the challenge that we Face particularly with something as extraordinary is this which is why Gathering the data is so important and I'll just end by saying by the way the over classification of material is no way limited to UAP that is occurring throughout the government as well as the inability to get people classifications in a timely and efficient manner and then to have those classifications be broad enough to be useful so this is a larger issue that I hope the Congress will thank you thank you Mr BS I've been generous all right Mr Burleson I'll recognize you for five minutes of questions please thank you madam chair uh Mr Alando um I um are does the any branch of the United States government or defense contractors possess technology sir there's documentation um that I believe was submitted for the record that it was rele that's approved for release by the US Pentagon by the uh Department defense office pre-publication Security review and it is uh it states one of the reasons why my predecessor program assap uh was trying to collect material uh of uh Unknown Origin did you Su was it successfully collected um it was not what happened is that there was an aerospace contract company that requested to divest itself of the material that was collected 1950s uh unfortunately that that didn't actually occur so let's dive into that company in Las veg Nevada so there was a journalist Christopher sharp who who said that lock there was a transfer between Loy Martin Bigalow airspace and the CIA allegedly blocked this can you describe that um what I say is that it was blocked um why it was blocked I can I can only surmise um I was part of some conversations later on with some of those contract Personnel where they they had told all of us that is accurate um what we require was a memo from the secretary of the Air Force in order to make that complete and that never occurred and so when secretary Mattis became Secretary of Defense um I decided it would be appropriate for me to try to receive a memo from him as sect def as Secretary of Defense if we could not get a memo from the secretary of the Air Force to transfer that material so if that material exists today who's in possession Sor I wouldn't be able to have that conversation uh in in an open hearing we probably have said my question to you then is if we were in a secure setting if we were in a skiff would you be able to provide or get access to something whether it's a visuals or material that we could put our hands on or biologics that would convince me that would show me um that that we have non-human Origins so that decision would not be mine that would be to the gatekeeper still in the US government and who would we so if you were in our shoes where would you go from here how would you get that information how would where you know a lot of times we just don't know who to ask because we don't know uh where to go next so if you were in our shoes where would you go well I prefer to answer that question in a Clos session however we we established arrow for that very purpose and unfortunately under its previous leadership it failed um so one would hope that they would have the authorities necessary to do that um let's hope that this new iteration of leadership uh will be successful um in in the discussions it's it's simply about material or is there discussion about biolog it was previously testified that there's biologics that were collected are you aware of any of that I am sure aware of the reporting that biologics have been recovered again my focus was more nuts and bolts um looking at the the physical aspects of these phenomenon how they interacted around uh military equities and nuclear equities so I'm certainly not AIC expert um I would not be able to probably provide you a whole lot of value in that simply because I don't have the expertise was anything described as that we have possession of bodies yes yes we have POS is it multiple types of creatures or sir I I could answer that um I can tell you anecdotally that it was it was um discussed quite a bit when I was at the Pentagon the problem is the colle supposed collection of these biological samples occurred before my time in fact before I was even born and was this part of the locky Roswell discuss or is this a complet the biologist is a completely separate um separate yet related okay um has has anyone made contact sir I'm sorry could you specify has there been any to your knowledge any communication with a non-human life form so the term communication is a bit of a trick word because U there's verbal communication like we're having now and the problem is you also have non-verbal communication and so I would say definitively yes but from a non-verbal meaning when a Russian reconnaissance aircraft comes into US airspace we scramble two f-22s and we are certainly communicating intent and capability um I think the same goes with this we have these things that are being observed over controlled us airspace um and they're not really doing a good job hiding themselves they're making it pretty obvious they have the ability to even interfere with our our nuclear equities and our nuclear Readiness is is um the United States government or and our contractors are they pulling you technology from this are they're are the reverse engineering this sir as I previously stated please forgive me um I am not authorized to discuss specifics about Crash retrievals um I again I signed documentation with the US government um what I can say was after a very thorough review process by the Pentagon what I wrote about and that was my limit unfortunately that I was given thank you yes sir thank you I would like to recognize Mr Question hman Air Force Mr alzando you just said something interesting you said they don't seem to be hiding they don't seem to be hiding the UAP sightings are becoming increasingly um Brash if you will and you know we've been hearing about these for years but they've generally been isolated and not um as consistent and overcritical military installations um would you say that's fair is is this becoming increasingly uh of is it happening more and more great question sir um let me see I can answer this for you um certainly there seems to be some some indication that they're being provocative meaning that they're in some cases literally splitting aircraft formations right down the middle um so that's an air safety issue the question is it is it is it the frequency increasing and the the really the response is it depends yes it's possible that there is an increase in frequency but it's also possible that there's a heightened awareness now and there's also more pervasiveness of Technology out there that's collecting this information and I can record this information so we're not quite sure yet if it's actually an increase in in numbers of of these events or is it that we have better equipment now that to record these things and we can we have a better ability if you will to to analyze these things and that's my next question do you it seems that a lot of these sightings occur near mil military installations do you think that these um uaps are intentionally targeting military installations or do you think that we have increased abilities to monitor surrounding military installations sir maybe both um part of my concern is we have something in the Department of Defense and the intelligence uh Community called ipb in initial preparations of the battle space and we use equities like ISR intelligence surveillance reconnaissance and other type of equities and Technologies to prep the battle space um and certainly you know if I was wearing my National Security hat even if there was a 2% chance that there was some sort of of hostile intent here um that's 2% higher than we really can accept and so he must figure out there's a calculus capabilities versus intents in order to identify something as a national security threat we've seen some of the capabilities yet we have no idea in the intent and so this is why this discussion is is somewhat I think problematic from a governmental perspective because we have no idea sure thank you Mr shenberger you're particularly familiar with the Langley Air Force bace incident a year ago are you familiar just just from what I read just from what you've read um the I would imagine a large percentage of the of the American population became aware of that with the Wall Street Journal article would you agree with that yes and um were you aware of that incident prior to the Wall Street Journal article no um to the rest of the panel it was the Wall Street Journal article the first time that y'all were made aware of what was essentially an over two week um UAP frenzy over uh langle Air Force Base did were you all aware of this prior to the was Journal article any anybody Joan yes sir Dr G could you give me your how did you become aware of it well a colleague of mine who I referenced previously Chris melon he wrote a extensive article about this that there were other incursions of drones over langly before this as well as many many military installations over the last five decades and it's my understanding there's been an ever increasing in number and um trying to think how to say this because I wear two different hats I'm still in the Air Force um so I mean it seems that they're becoming increasingly Brash and the question that we really have to figure out is if is it China or is it non-human and I think that's the biggest question the American people want to know it's China it's scary because they have a lot of technology that we cannot explain and if it's nonhuman that's scary because we don't know the intent would you say that's fair uh yes congressman and in fact I really believe that we should use this hearing to as a catalyst to improve and bolster our uh air defense capabilities and and our Maritime a domain awareness capabilities because obviously they're holes in it whether it be UAP of non-hi direction or nhi direction or like you as you say Sir China or any other adversary are y all aware of any Task Force at the Pentagon or in the National Security apparatus that's trying to assess the answer to that question at at the current moment sir no but this is a great point from 2020 to 2022 there was a UAP t force in the dod and succeeding where Mr alzando worked led by J Stratton who had the first comprehensive whole government approach to UAP which involved Pathways to declassification and to increase transparency as as well as assessing the National Security risk of UAP this was this was a really wellestablished approach and we have all advocated that something like it return I'm running out of time the last thing is that we need authorities um the law enforcement military do not have authorities to actually engage and we need to Congress needs to act to give those authorities to local law enforcement in the military so they have clear guidelines on how to assess these issues going forward I you back thank you thank you I'd like to recognize Miss Boer for five minutes a question thank you madam chair uh now that we have all been cautioned in this Committee hearing uh that the mention of pentagon's Immaculate constellation program could uh put us on a list well um I already find myself on many lists I'm sure so um I speak my mind often so why not just keep going with it um may as well just go all out and say it the Earth is flat birds are government drones and uh we've never set on foot on the moon and Joe Biden received 81 million votes in the 2020 election so uh let's just see how many how many lists we could get on here today um but Mr shellenberger I wanted to ask you um I think I understand from this hearing that you would agree that classifying information like this is not in the best interest of the people is that correct yeah I mean with the c that of course I you know I would support classification necessary to protect Secrets essential to National Security but I think it's pretty obvious that there's over classification over classification yes and so in most instances if they can't tell us what do you think at some point they'll at least tell us why you know president-elect Trump has repeatedly committed to to Greater transparency both on the UAP issue on JFK files on yes Co Origins and many other things so I think that we need to make sure that the next Administration is held accountable for that agreed and this is for all four of you yes or no please I have many questions I want to get to um are there any known instances of recovered materials or techn um Technologies um that are not of human origin and um maybe connected um to any advanced bio bioscience defense programs within the USG I don't know I wouldn't be able to answer that ma'am I don't know I don't enough okay so um there are rumors that have come up to the hill um of a secretive project within the Department of Defense involving uh the manipulation of human genetics with what is described as non-human genetic material potentially for the enhancement of human capabilities hybrids are any of you familiar with that yes or no no ma' I am not ma'am I'm not no ma' okay I would like to know um with Immaculate constellation um how does this relate to U UAP activities Mr shellenberg um in Oceanic environments are there any instances where the Navy or other um Marine time uh um um forces have encountered uaps that could not be explained by known techn te ology or natural phenomena yeah the AIC constellation covers both terrestrial and oceanic and there's actually a number of cases described in the report that occur um in the ocean and do you believe that there is a concerted effort by the Pentagon uh to keep Congress out of the loop regarding these UAP activities specifically in our Waters yes I think it's about 5% of our ocean that's actually been studied in detail um by man uh and we've we've studied more of space and we had of our own oceans and so are there any accounts of uaps emerging from or submerging into our water which could indicate a base or presence beneath the ocean's surface I I don't know about a base but you know as I mentioned I had a different Source entirely described this pretty extraordinary footage that exists of orbs of an orb coming out of the ocean and being met by another orb um some would say that there's multiple hot spots where we see frequent activity so in and your investig if you AC come across any data or Visual Evidence like sonar readings um or underwater footage of these uaps I have not Beyond what's in the report um you've written about uaps not only in the air but in underwater um are there any specifics um on what you've learned about the UAP activity um in our oceans particularly have you um spoken with uh sources who have uh provided any evidence or eyewitness accounts of uh these uaps interacting with our Naval forces or um being detected um by our underwater surveillance systems nothing beond what's in the report and then the the specific case that I mentioned with the orb and so this report says it all there's there's no other information that we are aware of um regarding the activity within our Waters I have other sources that are have told me that have shared a signific amount of information but they're not comfortable uh with me sharing it at this point okay um are there any um um technological capabilities observed in um these uh Oceanic uaps that seem to defy our current understanding of physics or our engineering capabilities it seems like they all do yes I would agree with that um and uh my my time is up but I do appreciate um your bravery your courage for coming here and speaking today and seems like there's still some questions that we need answers to and we will not relent until we get those to the American people thank you all thank you I move to allow myself and the ranking member five additional minutes for questions without objection so ordered um Mr alzando were you read into the immaculate constellation program and I would not be authorized to confirm nor deny the existence of any ongoing or past program especially as it relates to a special Access program either by name or trigraph okay and then are there does the US government or private contractors they work with other foreign countries China for example to exchange data quote from a source uh that intelligence data about UAP um let me I can answer a little bit more generally ma'am we do have foreign material exploitation uh programs um that is something that is widely known and that term itself is unclassified how exactly that works becomes a bit sensitive uh a discussion we could certainly have in a in a Clos session if you like we do work with International partners and allies quite often not just in military exercises and workups but in other intelligence um efforts as well in terms of material that's given to private contractors there certain material given to certain contractors because of their experience so for example uh if it's um related to submerged and undersea propulsion would it go to a general contractor like General Dynamics yes ma'am absolutely correct um different contractors have different levels of expertise what's Lock's expertise Aerospace ma'am in in the UAP space that's all that uh they would do submerge I no I didn't say that ma'am okay Loy Martin and others do quite a bit of work both um in our atmosphere in space and and even underwater there are there are certain um efforts to it's a tough question you're asking put me on the spot here I'm ask I'm looking for the answer yes ma'am no they they are involved in a lot um I would rather let locky Martin explain um the different domains that they are involved with um I not authorized to discuss that but they are involved in a lot of lot of different areas and domains adal flight safety risks for our Pilots based on what you've experienced and seen in your career they're extensive and the one exercise I referred to where I received the email that was then deleted was the the pilots and this is worth bringing out there are debunkers out there who have said the go fast video was just a balloon that was only one video that was released there were dozens of these encounters that pilots and Friends of Ryan Graves who's in this room right here uh witnessed and and caused significant safety concerns and to almost call out and exercise it and shut it down which is very compressed and the the carrier getting ready for deployment the pilots have to get certified at land on the carrier it it's extreme to say the least all right I have two last questions um real quickly Mr shenberger how do we get more whistleblowers to come forward well this hearing does you know is very important and obviously you know I I can't en encourage whistleblowers to obtain information but I can um guarantee that I will protect them and go to prison to protect their identities come to me yes sir okay my last question the first hearing we had on this um I never breathed on uaps or what they were biologics nonhuman Etc how would you define each of you my last question how would you define non-human biologics non-human intelligence what are we actually talking about Admiral and we'll go down the line I don't think it's a stretch when you look at the diversity of Life on this planet and the size of this universe to think that there would be more diverse higher order non-human intelligence in throughout the Universe and that's probably what visiting us um I would take the scientific approach the the the definition would be the ability to react to a stimulus um in a manner that requires an intellectual thought process I just don't know I think we must be modest in our assumptions that we're looking for intelligence that could be biological it might not non-biological but what non-biological intelligence what does that me mean though uh artificial intelligence ml machines we assume that all intelligence would be like us and every time we look out in the universe we are humbled relative to what we don't know in terms of the forms of intelligence and what it may take I can assure you I probably can't ask you your question but I think the ultimate answer is going to surprise us all and then Mr Garcia you had a few closing remarks and and I know we're about to get hit votes here so I'll be brief just um I want to thank you all for for being here I want to thank chairwoman mace especially for holding this important bipartisan hearing uh and I want to thank all the committee members that are interested in this topic uh I think our commitment to to all of you and all the folks who have contacted us and certainly to of The Advocates and the pilots is that we need to continue um investigating uh uaps uh I think the country um owes uh the country's owed explanations and ensure the safety or national security is is always protected um this is a conversation and questioning that must continue so I'm very grateful to all of you um and I also just want to just add just just personally I think it's really important for me two things guide um my my questioning and my observations on uips is one is should always be guided by facts science and data and and stay serious on those issues and the second thing is I think that we should not limit our imag our imagination and our thoughts and our Curiosity on what uaps could actually be and I think those two things for me are really important and I'm grateful that for all of you to be here so with that I yield back okay and we have Mr ogles who is on the way he GNA be here any second is that correct check and he'll be the last uh last member with questions that we have today and then we're gonna we have votes so we want to thank you all for being here I want to thank Mr Garcia and folks on both sides Al for being here today and being patient we have a lot more questions um and I hope that this will open the door to more hearings and the future I obviously would like to know how much taxpayers are spending on this you have the right to know but also if we're spending money on something that doesn't exist why are we spending the money and if it doesn't and if it does exist why are we hiding it from the public and uh of course our national security is a huge issue because if there's technology that uh could harm us or Allies that are in the hands of our adversaries we obviously want to stay ahead of that uh to the best of our ability to ensure that um that that technology is not in the hands of someone who could use it against us or our allies anywhere in the world so Mr ogles you're just in time babe uh I will recognize you for five minutes of questioning before we head on out today well thank you all for being here and Madam chair one I out of breath because I sprinted to get here but uh this is an important hearing um I think we all know that there's something going on Mr uh alzando based on your knowledge of UAP sightings do you believe it's fair to say that they are especially common near nuclear sites yes sir uh Mr Congressman I absolutely uh am convinced of that as are my colleagues uh inside the government and the reason why I POS that question and this has been one of my talking points from the beginning is you know Oak Ridge is in Tennessee the so-called weather balloon that drifted that we now know was controll it it pass near Oak Ridge it obviously is a sensitive site both uh of interest to our adversaries and to whatever else this is because we know that at military installations at sensitive locations such as nuclear facilities that we're seeing this take place so the question is what is it do you believe they've caused an irregular activity and why might they be interested in those sites sir um in some cases it's actually regular activity uh you'd be surprised there's actually document documentation right now that's been submitted uh it's not just oakrid it's Savannah River Site SRS it's also Los Alamos um a lot of our uh sensitive R&D locations appear to be under some sort of surveillance and monitoring um why well because a lot of innovation comes out of those areas a lot of new technologies a lot of uh if you will disruptive technologies that we use for our National Defense um is originates out of out of those locations and advanced concepts and physics as well so if I was doing any type of reconnaissance um even on a foreign adversary that's a great Target uh to start with sure and and again this has been one of my talking points I do have questions um what role might the department of energy or its subsidiaries or AFF it's have in this type of Technology uh or possessing this type of Technology whether it's ours or others Mr gud day I think your testimony has been pretty clear but but would you please reiterate that do you believe uf's posst a threat to Pilots Excuse me yes sir I I absolutely they were threatening Navy pilots during the exercise that I was my people were involved with 2015 and it's my understanding that're they're risking uh pilot safet Commercial and Military today well considering and I understand that there's a need uh in some cases to keep certain Technologies secret but you believe that it is posing a threat to our Personnel correct yes sir so I think it's reasonable to conclude that if there is a threat to our Personnel who are serving our country Faithfully that there be oversight 100% congressman and in fact that's the one thing that we've not talked about enough during this hearing is is the fact that the government executive branch not sharing with Congress what it knows about UAP infringes on your legislative and oversight responsibilities to such an extent that's very concerning I mean what what else are we if you look at National Security or intelligence or Foreign Affairs or Appropriations you all have oversight and legislative responsibility regarding those this UAP issue may be the greatest issue of our time and it's being it's being hit from you well I mean to your point I I think we've seen over the decades that we have certain adversaries like China like Russia that uh techn technologically speaking are not as advanced as us that they they lack some of the lethality that we have and that we've seen that they've gone after our Technologies and in some cases succeeded in particular with missile technology and so again my concern whether this technology emanates from us or otherworldly that we know that we possess it and where's the accountability where are the stop caps what are the guarantees that if this were to fall in enemy hands that it isn't immediately weaponized against us and I'll say this it is clear from my experience and what I've seen that there is something out there the question is is it ours is it someone else's or is it otherworldly and Madam chairman I would posit that as the legislative body as the regulatory body we must know and anyone who prevents us from Gaining access to that information I would consider that criminality because we have us Personnel who may very well be In Harm's Way we have technology that ultimately May threaten our very existence with that Madam chairman I thank you for your Indulgence and I yield back thank you m ogal and with that and without objection all members will have five legislative days within which to submit materials and to submit additional written questions for the witnesses which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response if there's no further Business Without objection the subcommittee stands adjourned [Applause] [Applause] she e [Applause] [Music] [Applause] problem e