The Valensole Case, on the AAWSAP/AATIP Confusion & Prairie Lights | Ufos # 8 Live - July 7, 2024

Transcript

[Music] good evening this clob Bros will tell you that the truth about life on Earth will be revealed in government documents and I mean I guess in a very limited sense they're right we humans even all our friends who are government employees are humans after all government documents are material culture and all of this activity any of it at all is ultimately evidence of the activity of the Great Dragon the Great Dragon engulfs all other dragons that the giant terrasaurs that migrated between the world's farthest Shores are dragons too but they are only microscopic dragons on the scale of the D Great Dragon the largest living creature by far the longest creature by duration in the known universe and also that which contains all of us and is mother to all of us as well as every other creature organism or dragon on the planet the deeply ancient Great Dragon extends for billions of years into the past coiling and coiling about the sun along with the Earth's rotating surface which they envelop like a shell the head of the Dragon is the present moment for all of life and the length extends so deeply in time humans cannot comprehend at every moment dark and sleepy night covers half the Great Dragon while daytime covers the other half at every moment the sunrise pushes east across half the dragon in a long slender Arc from pole to pole where the dragon pulses into daytime activity and at every moment on the exact opposite side of the planet the Great Dragon wilts and hides at the last Red Light of the sunset which endlessly Retreats Westward word what will happen to the dragon during the climate crisis what will happen 100 years after a thousand a million or 10 years after what will happen to humans what will happen to the place you are now the answers to these questions will only come with the NeverEnding incremental disclosure of sunset deep lore drops in the prologue check this is a excuse me there is a very special type of Close Encounter of the Third Kind the kind that happens in the south of France on a lavender farm also Prairie Lights who are they really plus we reveal that UFO Sunset was just a nickname for our now defunct project a UFO themed AC capella group called a snap all this and more tonight I'm Rachel Nelson I'm Luis katanu uh Jeff Knox is not quite here yet due to some technical issues but he will be with us shortly here he is now hi Jeff hey je hey here he is now hi Jeff hello did not know I was on yet but okay cool hey that here's Jeff from 30 crap let me yeah oh there we go there we go sorry about that guys yeah I didn't know I was on yet I still don't have my my browser crashed today and I had to reboot my computer and still haven't got things loaded so that's quite all right hello welcome to UFO Sunset and now for the rebath a new paper defends the younger Drea's P hypothesis the younger drus was a cold period that L excuse me that marked the last major period of glaciers which lasted a little over a thousand years shortly after this period ended 11,700 years ago human agriculture first developed many researchers in recent decades have been promoting the IDE idea that this period was kicked off by an impact event about 12,900 years ago a paper published in May in the journal Air Bursts and cratering impacts offers new evidence in support of this idea they argue that shock fractured quartz is evidence of a bowed air burst or the explosion of an object from space in the Earth's atmosphere as these shock fractures are similar to shock fractures caused by atomic blasts the paper suggests that the younger Jus was kicked off by a comet that exploded into fragments in the atmosphere similar to the tunguska event in 1908 when a buy exploded over Siberia sending shock waves around the world and clearing hundreds of miles of forest from the article abstract quote sediment sequences spanning the 12,800 yearold lower younger dras boundary were investigated at three widely separated sites in eastern North America Parson Island Maryland a Newtonville sandpit in Southern New Jersey and Flamingo Bay South Carolina all sequences examined exhibit Peak abundance in Platinum micros ferals and mouth glass representing the younger dreas boundary Cosmic impact layer resulting from the Air Bursts SL impacts of a fragment comment of a fragmented Comet excuse me approximately 12,800 years ago unquote but this paper comes amid ongoing controversy around the younger D impact hypothesis in a lengthy paper published in earth science reviews in December of 2023 which is called comprehensive reputation of the younger drus impact hypothesis the authors argue that there is no clear evidence of an impact event among other criticisms they write in the abstract quote the physical evidence offered in support of an impact is nano to microscopic in scale Ed charal carbon spheral magnetic grains spheral Nano diamonds and platinum minerals to name a few however many have critical issues with their identification measurement and [Music] interpretation unquote this new paper also attempts to counter criticism of the impact hypothesis from the 2023 paper the 2023 paper argues that ice core measurements of a purported platinum anomaly that happened at the beginning of the younger dreas period excuse me were actually 30 years after the beginning of the younger trius cooling the new study critiques his finding and states that the new evidence of platinum anomalies at the three different sites in North America are all within 30 years of the of the younger tre's onset and bat murmurations appear on radar in Arizona an enormous flock consisting of thousands of bats was caught on radar emerging from a tunnel in Phoenix in late June Fox 10 News reported the bats are mostly female and Roost in the tunnel in the builtmore area of Arizona of Phoenix Arizona the bats use this place to incubate their young after which they will migrate south to Mexico Gabriel loo at the National Weather Service explained quote the radar switches to a clear air mode so that the antenna will scan more slowly and when it scans more slowly and when it scans more slowly excuse me it is able to pick up more artifacts that may be non-precipitation related such as any Airborne particulates dust and in this case bats unquote according to Jonathan derbridge from the school of natural resources and the environment at um I'm sorry I made an error there I believe that that is at the University of Arizona I will correct that later the numbers of bats will likely increase later in the [Music] summer also in the summer a visible Nova is forecast in the night sky sometime in the coming months astronomers forecast that a giant Stellar explosion called a Nova will become visible in a constellation in the northern hemisphere named Corona borealis the noble will resemble a new star temporarily blinking into the sky for around a week this will happen in the binary star in the binary star system excuse me T coroni Borealis or TCB for short which is located about 3,000 light years from Earth the system consists of two stars a red giant and a white dwarf the small and dense white dwarf pulls matter off of the red giant and about every eight 80 years it pulls off so much matter that it causes a massive explosion in Nova TCB has had previous novas one in 1946 and one in 1866 and before each of these tcrb brightened for several years before then dimming this brightening and then dimming has been observed in recent years too causing researchers to predict that t Corona Borealis is due for another Stellar explosion which we should get to view sometime in the next few months now we decided to rearrange the show just for this week a little bit so I'm going to go ahead with my piece first follow and then we're going to follow that up with Louise k ano's piece on the AAP a tip Shenanigans and then after that for our grand finale Jeff will have a wonderful detailed presentation on the Valen Soul close encounter case now if I was on a desert island and I could only choose the Corpus of all known references to one legendary or pero weird entity it would surely be uncanny lights that came out at night there have always been various different types of nocturnal light sightings and not just lights associated with UFOs or even airships no no not at all and it somehow wouldn't do if that was the case a world without nocturnal lights would be a darker World indeed now while airships and other Phantom aircraft May sometimes follow a pattern of waves like the 1896 and 97 Airship wave in the US do spook lights and other common nocturnal lights follow this type of pattern too I think we'll find that while the answer is sort of it's also very hard to tell in any case the spook light or ghost light is a very common feature in folklore some spook lights like the paing light in Michigan or the J in the jobin Missouri spook light are caused by simple Optical phenomena associated with cars driving at night I think we can probably expect these types of Lights to be reported pretty regularly since they have known physical causes that happened that happen regularly but reports of spook lights Spirit lights or ghost lights also commonly predate the era of cars let alone flying saucers here are some reports of Spooks at crawfordshire Indiana in 1891 these sightings were explained in one news story as a flock of kilder in a famous case from Norwich England in the late 19s there were numerous reports of luminous animl sightings there are diverse descriptions of other similar lights Hufford also CES for example Jacko Lantern sightings in New Finland around 1900 noting their similarity to some Modern UFO reports another common one in English-speaking folklore is the Willow the Wisp that misleads Travelers nocturnal lights are also reported in diverse cultures often associ ated with spirit with Spirits or Supernatural entities Spirit lights or hitodama that are in essence the ghosts of the dead as well as demon lights or onibe are described in the folklore and popular media of Japan for example now tonight I just wanted to highlight a few examples of the pre UFO era nocturnal light type report mostly from a few newspaper articles I found in the Library of Congress free online newspaper archives these are stories of so-called ghost lights reported in and perhaps around me County Kansas in at least February through April of 1913 what follows is a later citing by the Compton family in their horsedrawn Carriage from the April 16th Americus Daily Times recorder quote a few nights ago John C Compton traveling Overland with his family from Oklahoma to lakan Kansas drove hastily into Mi and reported seeing a strange light in the very vicinity where the mysterious Sand Creek ghost light formerly held forth we were driving along slowly when suddenly a great white light very bright appeared to be coming toward us said Mr Compton when the light came within a few rods of us it suddenly disappeared only to reappear in a short time it was Northwest of Lakeland just how far we were from the post office I cannot say but I should judge a about 6 or seven miles every time the light appeared the horses reared and plunged and we were compelled to stop to avert a runaway at first I thought it was an automobile light but it was too large and bright for that and as no machine appeared I gave up that idea it was certainly the most bewildering and gruesome Li I ever saw and I cannot understand what it was unquote it seems that many locals such as a WL painter were very familiar with the light one questioned says painter quote I have seen it on 25 or 30 different occasions but have never been able to explain it it would first appear like a the light of a lantern but immediately bloomed out as big as a full Moon it looked somewhat like the headlight of a locomotive coming around a curve suddenly and was accompanied by a roaring sound like the escaping of steam but there is no railroad within 20 miles it reappeared at intervals of from 1 to 7 days it would never get closer than 60 or 70 rods and seemed always to come from the northwest I and members of my family have observed it many times we know it in our neighborhood as the ghost light when it shows up it always badly frightens horses and has been the cause of Many runaway accidents the horses seem to know its approach before it is cited about 6 years ago about six years ago many others besides myself repeatedly saw this ghastly light and it disappeared about the same time that the Germans settled that portion of the country at one time it appeared to be directly in front of Del Leland post office and several times while driving at night as it appeared always causing the horses to be alarmingly frightened one citizen saw and attempted to go to it but it disappeared with no remaining sign or Mark Left To Tell the tale unquote I'm struck by the mention of the roaring sound could this offer an explanation for what the light was or was the reported sound caused by something unrelated to the light there were also articles in newspapers in the months before from the Hutchinson Kansas news on March 17th of 1913 quote a prominent me man now adds his experience to those who have already seen the light and this gentleman is known other is none other than hn holdeman our popular breeder of high class cattle and Hogs living 1 and a half miles south of the city on the evening of March 3rd Mr Holdman was going home from me and when he entered the North and South Road he noticed ahead of him quite a distance a light close to the ground as he drew nearer he noticed the strange light was in the road near the lane running to his residence at first he thought it was a snow bank near the corner of the fence so white was the light but as he approached no snow was visible and the Mysterious illumination led up the road and field for several yards around several rods around excuse me as soon as he reached the place where the ghost FL appeared he had once got out of his vehicle to make investigation as he approached within a few yards of light it Rose from the ground and came directly toward him and then apparently only a few feet away disappeared and was all dark Mr Holdman says it was a very strange experience and he would like very much for some scientists to inform him what this strange and uncanny light could be unquote this clipping comes from a collection of clippings on ghost lights that are available for free on k.org it's clear from this article that numerous other sightings were reported in February I found other articles from March and April too from the Topeka State Journal quote Lakeland Kansas March 18th farmers and stockmen here are making up a purse to bring a scientist here to investigate a ghost light which is seen almost nightly and is causing alarm RH painter Oren vanen and hn Holdman have observed the mysterious light at first appears as a Motorcar light but when approached it rises from the ground and disappears it has been seen most frequently in Sand Creek Township unquote personally these reports sound quite a lot like modern spook light reports and are likely some form of simple Optical phenomenon involving the light from distant car or train headlamps it's odd to me that this article mentions an RH painter and the witness from the much later article is named WL painter but this could easily just be a coincidence if not a highly improbable and with a without a doubt certainly not the case scenario of twins working telepathically with plasma entities now in his account W painter says that they've made many quote attempts to ascertain the cause of the strange light unquote I wonder if someone ever endeavored to explain the light by studying it in the field it seems doubtful but maybe from the Topeka daily State Journal April 26th 1913 quote The Mystery of the me County ghost light has not yet been solved to my knowledge although scientists investigators spiritualists and even more or less scientific gentlemen have been busy on the case there isn't any joke about this ghost light either remarked J Tomic remarked JK Thomas of me many of our best people have seen it and wonder at it the light is commonly seen in Lakeland Township it is very similar to a marsh light but it is much brighter there is no low ground there and no dampness and so it must be caused by something else than a marsh unquote here is another article that talks about a similar light observed on the dried out Walnut Creek bed near Hutchinson Kansas this time 3 years later in 1916 as with the Sand Creek light the light was reportedly observed decades earlier by a local witness one named Perry Bowman I think there is a lot more that can likely be said about this story there did appear to be a sort of minor scare or wave in February and March and perhaps again in April the statements of witnesses suggest that the light at Sand Creek may have occurred at different times in the past but if reports are correct then there were also previous sightings so the wave may have been more one of newspaper notoriety at the time than one that actually reflected the frequency at which people saw these particular lights without knowing what caused the Prairie Lights at Sand Creek Lakeland and other places in Kansas we can't really know for sure excuse me we can't really know for sure what caused them to be reported a wave of reports is only an indication of how often people reported something to have happened and not what happened or even how frequently it actually happened given the scant evidence I found so far which only amounts to news articles I have a feeling that none of these particular stories are the result of hoaxes but who knows maybe I'm wrong hopefully I will find more details on the Kansas ghost lights and talk about them in another episode sometime as for tonight I must say it was very light of you to join me on this strange journey and now for Mr Luis Kay [Music] um yep so there's my recent uh paper with v viente Juan bistos could we get the uh image there to be larger please I just want people to be able to read it um so that is the introduction there so this is a 74-page document which um took us a long time to write actually we tried to make it like up to the minute but at some point you just have to submit it because like you you'll just spend forever um updating it so um obviously this one was released recently you can find it on academia.edu I'm sure we'll provide the link for it and um here is the introduction and this is just a onepage intro it talks about basically what the paper's going to go into namely um the differences between and the confusion surrounding orap and atip so this is the DIA situated um program which is actually a UFO paranormal program but it was buil to the government and the military as a uh future threats um weapons program so it's like projecting into the future about what the likely systems which would threaten American platforms and systems in the future would be and how America should adapt to that um and also here it just goes a little bit into kind of what the rest of the paper is about so looking at the Historical uh backdrop of UFOs uh back into the 20th century and how even even going further back than that um this latest craze about U UAP and UFOs is actually uh retreading a lot of old ground but the motifs are a little bit different so each time they change but the basic Dynamics are the same um now the the book sorry the the paper itself is basically um it was conceived as a review of skinwalkers at the Pentagon by uh lki Kell Kela and nap so this is a 2021 book um looking at the yeah there's the the books right there so the one on the left is the original one although there had been previous books um within put by uh these authors um to do with skin walker and some paranormal stuff as well but this is the one that sort of brought together the uh the link between skin walker Ranch and the um oap program and it did clear up a few confusions regarding the difference between it and atip but there are still a lot of questions remaining um some of a lot of the output I should say of alsap has not been released um the uh the durs defense intelligence research documents I think or review documents um 37 uh unclassified documents have been released and there's a 38th one which is a classified version of another of a unclassified one but um these were contracted um documents and um orap did a lot of other work as well but most of those documents have not been released to the public um the other book that we kind of touch upon this is like the follow-up book by the same authors inside the US government cover us uo program initial Revelations goes into more detail about orap SLP and uh goes into more detail specifically about the different projects within that overarching program and it you know tries to defend the DS as well as being like proper scientific um research efforts although we've got some misgivings about that that we go into in the paper um but yeah let's maybe go to the next um image here please so uh the document after the intro starts off with a um chronology so this chronology is pretty long and it comes up into 2024 now the reason it starts in 1989 is because that's when George knp um investigative journalist with class TV in Las Vegas he reached out to Senator Harry Reid on a story linking Area 51 to UFOs and um you know nap would become famous for his uh breaking of the bobazar story and he's become very intimately tied to that ever since but the the chronology basically goes on uh from that date um it it talks about the National Institute for Discovery science or Neds which is a civilian um research organization set up by Robert Bigalow who featured very prominently in this entire Saga and um he's had ties to Senator Harry Reid and others he um is the one who won the contract for orap he set up an organization called bass um which is was underneath the umbrella of his company bigo Aerospace and um he's the one who provided kind of some of the resources although the money was actually put up by the government because it was a uh contracted program and so they responded to the tender they won the contract even though the contract had only been advertised for I think two months before the due date which is absurdly short but anyway uh Bigalow won that contract and then uh his organization was able to undertake the uh orap contract um you know specifications and uh mentioned there as well Hal POF uh jacqu Valle these are other personalities who have featured fairly prominently in this entire Saga as well uh valet would be will be probably known to many of you uh famous French ethologist who's been at this for I think 50 plus years now Hal POF has also been very prominent in the UFO scene he's done a lot of uh sort of physics research and um stuff stuff into Consciousness and psychic studies so a lot of these people sort of know each other they were involved in some of the um 1970s psychic uh research programs um linked to the CIA and the US Army and they've also tried to find links between Consciousness and UFOs actually previously talked a little bit about those links in a prior um show let's go to the next one please so after the chronology which does come up to the present date basically um and we do talk about some of those items in the chronology in more detail throughout the the rest of the paper but here it talks about the orap which stands for advanced Aerospace weapon systems applications program it was nicknamed uh atip so Advanced Aerospace threat identification program this uh these two names have caused a lot of confusion so there's been debate about whether were you know they were the same program were they different programs was one within the other one when did one start and the other start when did one begin and the other so when did one end and the other one end Etc and also to add more confusion um Lou alzono is obviously a very famous UFO person now um he he's been very intimately tied to the name atip and many people have taken that to mean the official UFO program at the DIA in fact um his initiative was actually a follow on from the official orap whose nickname was atip but he retained the name atip so we call it atip 2 later in the paper and we go into more detail about Al's role and the different ways that he kind of obfuscated or added confusion to this entire Saga he's actually got a book coming out pretty soon um I look forward to seeing what more contradictions he piles on top of the ones he's already contributed but here um it talks about um the aap's nature so what was it really about how was it sold to the diaa in the government who after all did foot the bill so $22 million not entirely clear how much of that money was actually spent but that's another you know murky area so we try our best to sort of clear up those uh confusions and provide what's actually known in a logical format and uh chronology so to let researchers kind of piece together what's actually happened we will be doing um updates on this document um in the future as well as more details come in so um a tip uh orap um the mon itself the ASP mon arose from an unclassified nickname uh inserted into a letter from Senator Harry Reid to the uh deputy secretary of defense requesting the creation of a special Access program uh this was ultimately rejected so he was seeking sap status which would have added another layer of secrecy um which is ironic because he's also mentioned in public that the government shouldn't hide things from citizens and yet herei was apparently trying to increase the secrecy of this UFO program um yeah and Pentagon spokes people have also uh contributed to the confusion uh about ATP versus OSAP um sometimes they've said that they're the same program at other times that they're different or that elisondo was involved in one way versus another so they've also contributed to this uh confusion although we regard the the primary responsibility for the confusion to have been um with the team principles and with aland okay let's go to the next one so the objective here would talk about the objective of orap and how it was sold so how well what did the the government think it was really about and um it talks about you know there in the original solicitation um placed by latsky so it talks about like Breakthrough technology applications into the future uh those sorts of potential threats to American systems doesn't ini it doesn't explicitly talk about UFOs or extraterrestrials or any paranormal aspects which actually kind of makes it more difficult to square with the fact that they it was actually about skin walker phenomena and the links you know between Consciousness and UFOs um and so like that's kind of hard to say what what does that have to do with this solicitation so you know we think that probably almost certainly the government was tricked um Dia per se or its leadership didn't know what the program was really about when they got into it later on they caught wind of that and they probably tried to extricate themselves from the program and you know um pool of funding Etc try to put it somewhere else make it somebody else's problem possibly there was also an ele of embarrassment there they felt that maybe they dropped the ball they should have know known what it was about but they didn't find out quickly enough and so maybe some of the obfuscation that's resulted in this entire Saga has actually been because of Dia leadership trying to do damage control so we can't prove that but it's uh certainly a plausible hypothesis all right let's go yes secrecy so here it talks about reads um you know he's a advocacy for transparency and yet he was you know trying to put orap into a under a sap umbrella special Access program um so that's kind of ironic uh but still orap was even though it wasn't classified at the level that Reed wanted um it was still hidden um and it was a cover 2-year program okay so we say here that the notable piece of Reed's political Legacy for our current purposes in thinking about UAP and UFO involvement by the US government uh is a piece of obscurantism all right location so where was it builded and the timing of it so when did it actually go from and to that's also an area of a little bit of um it's a a bit murky because we don't exactly know definitely when it started but the DIA awarded a 2-year contract from September 21st 2008 to September 30th 2010 extended by Dia at no cost through December 21st 2010 and um so it probably I mean it ended definitely in 2012 but you know how much of the money the original money was still being spent um in the like couple last years or so and when did it really begin so it's possible that Bigalow had already started to assemble people in 2007 for this program and so some people cite the beginning of orap as being 2007 late 2007 um instead of 2008 um this would also speak to a uh if that's true then this would also speak to a kind of insider trading um aspect to this program uh given the issues with the um the the tender so there are some you know timing issues as well so there's a lot of stuff in this about this program which is still kind of confusing it's it's not not known for sure yet and different sources say different things let's go to the next one so this is um Arrow historical reports summarizing the issue the timing issue as follows for orap orap ATP was terminated in 2012 upon the completion of its deliverables uh due to DIA and DOD concerns about the project excuse me so those concerns are namely to do with what have they actually gotten into because they almost certainly didn't know what it was really about what the team principles and participants were really doing again what as far as they were concerned the DIA was concerned um it was about a future projection of um you know weapons threats when in fact it was really about paranormal Skinwalker UFO phenomena but um this is from the arrow historical review that little quote there um volume one of the historical review and yeah so it was terminated in 2012 uh and the the deliverables uh that we definitely know about or that we can actually access are the DDS so 37 of those but there were a bunch of other deliverables that may or may not have actually been delivered to DIA um and they still haven't been issued to the public for inspection so those include various U monthly reports a really large 10-month report which is almost 500 pages long which was read apparently by Tim McMillan of Popular Mechanics he was able to actually take some photos and give some details but he didn't actually obtain a copy so he couldn't show it its entire contents this is actually a sort of interesting a recurring theme in euphology where uh researchers or historians are allowed to sort of take a look at a document but they can't keep it and they can just take a few notes so that's a kind of interesting Trope there that has recurred here as well this is a breakdown of Dia's uh the AAP program uh actual versus projected so um fiscal year contract term BAS option year appropriation and um some of this was not funded or executed and the DS that were produced so here you got 37 and then the other 11 DDS one of the 30 one of the 38 DDS was classified but we've got 37 unclassified DS okay uh management so it was U managed by latky is director and kaha um as well latky served under the aaces of Dia and Kela did so for Bass and um he served as a Deputy Administrator at Bass so other another known person uh Personnel person was John Stratton who would also come to feature prominently in the US government UFO slap Saga later on um many confusions and contradictions abound so Alondo has obviously tried to St um claim his place in the organiz ation um you know the 2017 New York Times article claimed that atip was run by him but atip was just a nickname for orap although alandre did apparently run some sort of more private restricted effort later on which uh assumed the name of atip we call that atip too later on I'll get to that but um he may have been a chief of Counter Intelligence and security for the Pro prog so he may have had some role but it's still not for sure what he really did um and he also wrote a DOD uh a complaint letter to the dod Inspector General okay so he was saying that he was uh was the head or the director for ATP and orap so there you can see at the bottom there and orap so that's not what he says in one of his tweets or Twitter uh X right one of the posts on that uh on that Forum he said that he has nothing to do or had nothing to do with orap so he's contradicted himself a number of times regarding his role with orap and um this has been um really investigated a lot by step Green Street of the New York Post and you can check out his articles and videos um to do with alzando let's go to the next one please uh funding so there it talks about the funding um so it's $22 million all up but there's still a little bit of a question about how much of it was of that $22 million was actually dispersed how it was used you know what programs got what um because it can't be that the dirs got most of the stuff uh most of the money I mean they did a lot of other stuff beyond the dirs but that has not been released to the public yeah and and maybe also just another thing about funding um it's also possible that Bigalow provided some of his own money towards the end as a kind of shoestring budget uh but anyway it's still there's still some things which are not known and and those documents which I mentioned which have not been released uh they are still at some facility at Bass um probably at bass not at DIA but if a Dia does know about stuff then it behooves them to release it to the public as a you know public Goodwill measure deliverables so we have the DDS um one of them is classified one of those 38 DDS is classified but it's a classified version of a released dird so these uh DDS were written by various contracted scientists um some of them may not have known the true purpose of orap so there are some UFO adjacent people who wrote some of the DS but other ones may not have kind of caught on and apparently Dia didn't catch on either even though it should have I think there were enough clues in things that bigo was saying to the media um that Dia should have caught on to that but it could also be that Dia doesn't have enough UFO Savvy people who kind of know the terminology or the Mythos and the history of the topic to kind of have caught on to what it was really about so but any in any case they may have been embarrassed by their oversight um there are some ethical questions as well about the deliverables so you know Dia may not have received everything it was meant to receive and yet it was you know this was a funded program using taxpayer money so we asked questions there about the ethics um there we say um massive Holdings of the original analysts journals data and photos remain in storage in other words these paid for assets were apparently never submitted to DIA is this ethical uh in the follow-up book that they write uh the authors write about the massive body of scientific papers and documents the program produced which have mostly not been made public the bulk of what the study produced has not been unveiled even now not even Congress has been able to access the vast data warehouse of the more than 100 papers produced by bass so you know taxpayers should really demand to know what happened to this output all right um now we get on to a tip two which was ELO's effort and we we call it a tip to he didn't call it that he tried to sort of fold them into each other so that when you talk about one you're talking about the other and to kind of maintain his proximity in the public eye to that program but in fact this was not AAP this is a more restricted and private effort by him possibly networking with some people who had been involved in orap but this was uh apparently looking more specifically into military um sightings by personnel and pilots and uh it it was not funded officially so it didn't have any budget uh items um anything like that because it was just Al's kind of private initiative he had another job um that he was doing you know to get paid but this wasn't the same thing as that so this was just kind of his own private project we don't know really what the deliverables were um okay the nature so it's officially it was officially non-existent after the unofficially extended orap definitely definitively ended in 2012 alzando followed an unofficial UAP effort of his own at the OSD um appropriate appropriating the title or atip which was the aap's nickname okay so uh there's again a lot of murkiness about who knew what and um you know his relations to various officials and people in orap um and also yeah so it just it it just gets really confusing I think probably by Design uh because he said things which just blatantly contradict each other so I don't think it's a mistake on his part that a lot of this stuff is very uh confused let's go to the next one so objective so Pentagon program it's also been called a uh project um but it wasn't an official Pentagon program it might have been situated at the Pentagon but he was doing it in his own in his own spare time and it had much less scope than orap so it was more about keeping tabs on Military sourced UFO signings not all the other skin walker and paranormal stuff although aland does lean into that stuff a little bit um in his public pronouncements um this version of a tip was apparently not focused on that stuff so alzando had formed a formal working group with other members of the intelligence Community here it says formal um it wasn't a formal program but he I think this is a quote by him but you know again um more of the confusion there about its exact status so it was set up to discuss and assess UAP activity uh whether this working group was itself properly speaking part of a tip 2 or whether it was a network of former orap insiders and others uh that was being utilized by Alexandre to support an individual effort uh that can be termed a tip 2 this may be a tedious point of Distinction but it still is another example of ambiguity uh in The Saga right let's go to the next one secrecy so laty defined this a tip2 as a classified Endeavor um this loose unfunded Endeavor variously referred to as a program or activity was kept from the American public until alzando gloomily quit the Pentagon in 2017 and started talking Non-Stop about it to the present day and it was located um at the Pentagon um at the yeah the office of the under secretary of defense for intelligence all right timing so it was created years later than orap which was again established in 2008 and the atip acronym was adopted uh much later than OSAP atip was of course already in use as a nickname for oap so we we really belabor that point just to draw the distinction between the proper atip versus alesandro's a tip um all indications are that the uh this informal group if it was really a group with this informal initiative by alesandro existed in some form from 2012 12 to 2017 um part of that portfolio if we can call it that but maybe the findings from this unofficial effort were handed off and then they become became the basis for other investigations like um the UAP task force which also had kind of an unofficial and an official VAR uh variance and also the AO IM MSG or a yeah aoi yeah I think aoi or a IO MSG which is a precursor for Arrow so there could have been some transfer of data between these different efforts but we don't know really um the deliverables I think that's in the next slide actually let's go to that or management so aland was the head if you want to call him the head um so we again we don't really know who was involved um could have been like an informal network of people that hid uh form with during orap but again we don't really fully know what he did at orap proper but still it could have utilized that um network of people and uh trying to find like different people yeah aoi Ms G thanks Steve long um these people who were kind of experts in different fields and different agencies like Navy CIA Etc he could have brought them together they could have had some discussions about UFOs trying to figure out what the pilots and others had seen and things like that um there was apparently a a share Drive known as y project on the jwx that's the joint worldwide intelligence communication system which is the dod secure internet system so there's apparently some data that was stored there but that hasn't been released let's go to the next one funding so New York Times article in 2017 um mistakenly linked a $22 million funding with alesandro's atip which he claimed that he led that uh money was meant for orap of course um so nothing went to ATP in other words a tip two despite widespread statements over the last several years um aland himself has said very slim resources um he's given various presentations as well where's given some details which have sometimes contradicted each other um but definitely almost certainly a tip 2 was not funded and it was a very restricted effort compared to orap okay we can go to the next one please this is a summary of the US UAP programs from 2008 to the present and it shows the the name the period the status and the organization uh so leadership as well so orap and ATP they occupied two rows there so September 2008 to December 2010 and then December 2010 to August 2012 so these were official and funded latky was the leader the head um under the aaces of Dia a tip 2 what we call alexandre's unofficial followon project so this is UN August 2012 to probably August 2017 Circa those dates um unofficial unfunded uh bed at the Pentagon or I shouldn't even say bed it was just like Alexander doing his own thing but he was at the Pentagon at the time possibly Stratton John Stratton was actually the leader of that initiative but we don't know for sure there are some rumors here and there um and Steven Green Street has talked about those but for now we don't really think there's much to those rumors but we could be wrong so maybe I mean we should keep tabs on that situation um the UAP portfolio um so September 2017 to December 2017 official funded and this was under the offices of uh Tipton at the Pentagon and then that evolved into the UA PTF the first instantiation of that program that was at the US Navy's uh Office of Naval intelligence John Stratton was the head and then we have the other uh version where it was bed at the Oni and the USD uh again Strat was the head the aoi MSG uh which went on till July 2022 uh us USD Cummings and um what was it Matthew Cummings and also Shan Kirkpatrick who would later on become the head of Arrow and um he was just there at the oim AO imsg for a short time I think the last couple or so months of its existence before it became Arrow he then went on to become the director of Arrow so this is still going on to the present day this organization it recently put out a very large lar report and it's going to do volume two very soon as well about the US government's historical involvement with the UFO subject and also um claims about uh coverups of alien technology or the aliens themselves yeah so uh Phillips is now the head of that or the acting director I should say um Kirk Patrick now works for one of the National Laboratories um but he still has some interest in the UAP topic but he's gone on to other things all right now we also mention here in this kind of more historical section that the UAP phenomenon is just a minor part of the UFO phenomena so this is a broader term it's more encompassing and it includes like all the scare waves in the past actually stretching back to several centuries so you think about you know things which are not known about or unex explained in the sky people have attributed that to various causes Through the Ages and of course more recently like in the past Century to extraterrestrials because that's the thing that is on people's minds in the space age but if you you were to go back you would encounter Airship stories or um immediately before the ET hypothesis really took off it was more to do with like the possibility that the Soviets were flying experiment or aircraft over America um but there are certain themes and dynamics that remain consistent throughout all of this history which is to do with how the media interacts with a topic and spreads these stories there's a psychosocial aspect as well where people kind of fit in the the motifs that they care about onto those phenomena that they see and can't explain um so you get these waves or these flaps of these um sorts of um sightings and they get reported and spread and then they get interpreted through a v various so um socioeconomic lenses next one that's a little table which is just summarizing some of those scare waves and flaps so you got the ghost rockets and Scandinavia in the mid 1940s so immediately after World War II um Foo Fighters during World War II and similar things and um those were reported in Europe but also some in other parts of the world uh mystery airplanes Phantom Flyers mystery airships okay and as airships were being used more and more um Phantom balloon scares uh Phantom airships balloon scares mystery visitors and balloon fear and um another great fear in France so if you look at those cases you'll find a lot of similarities to more recent UFO flaps we argue that that's the underlying connection is not some mysterious paranormal cause or causes it's actually human psychology and social dynamics so in that sense there is a UFO phenomenon or phenomena but it's got nothing to do with paranormal or alien visitors all right let's go to the next one um so UFO related legislative Provisions for fiscal year 2024 this is a really kind of tedious section um I mean I still encourage people to read it but it's probably was the most difficult part to write because there's so much uh bureaucratic jargon and terminology uh you kind of have to sift through it we got a lot of help with this section from Douglas Johnson Dean Douglas Johnson or Douglas Dean Johnson sorry um and and other people who are kind of experts on the legislative aspect so the fiscal year uh 20124 ndaa which spells out how America is going to spend its money on defense and intelligence um programs and it did allocate some money and um interest to the UAP topic so that's become a very important media item as well it's been used to sort of inflate the UFO topic to the level of uh true credibility because now the government is taking it seriously and and yeah so that's become a huge thing that people have talked about and there's some legislators who really want to push with this um even further and other ones who want to hold back a little bit because they're concerned that some of the information that gets Declassified may be of genuine National Security concern so you don't want to declassify everything hastily you want to really be careful about that of course some people take that to mean that the government wants to continue the so-called cover up of ET existence okay let's go on so this is a um table summarizing some of those Provisions so ndaa for fiscal year 2024 the division within the document it's just a very small part of the overall document because the rest is about you know sensor systems electronic warfare missile development blah blah blah all the stuff that you would expect the US Military and IC to request money for but there's a small part which is dedicated to UAP and these are the subtitles there for that anyway next one now we do have a word or two to say about the so-called UAP whistleblowers so um David grush obviously has been the most famous one but there's been another guy I forget his name but um there's another person as well now there's also David fraver and Ryan Graves who were um Navy pilots and they had reported their own UAP sightings or encounters or or being at least told by other aviators that they had seen stuff so they they also gave testimony but then you had David grush as the sort of icing on the cake or at least many people thought of him as that because he was uh supposedly spilling the beans about all these um secret programs which were illegally covering up alien technology from the American public and all that sort of stuff now David grush has never said that he himself saw any aliens or spacecraft he was only told by people who had worked in such programs or claimed to him that they had done that so there's already you know many problems with his story and the his so-called sources um we've gone into that in other places um or I have in a video of mine and you know other people have as well but there's many problems there so basically it's all hearsay um and rumor uh maybe even manipulation of grush and others um for whatever reason so there are many reasons that you know there could be this sort of Mythos which develops within the IC and the military where secrecy and compartmentalization are very common and on the margins or the periphery of those programs you may get uh people who hear certain things about secret projects maybe those projects have got kind of cosmic oriented names and then that adds to the mystery and the Intrigue and then they start to think maybe this is actually alien technology that's being covered up so that could be happening there's various programs um which have got kind of cosmic connotations or have to do with spacecraft retrievals and things like that so so you know all all of that could be going on um people as well who have had very illustrious careers within the government they could feel that they didn't get enough from their experience or they were not at the level that they wanted to be and so they have a sort of regret about not being able to reach that level and perhaps um to assuage their disappointment they kind of concoct or they start to believe stories about ET to you know kind of make their own role or their social uh status more prominent all right let's go to the next one um so the assessment of the book under review namely skin walker at the Pentagon we do mention that it's got some good things and some not so good things so it does clear up some confusions it does add some interesting caveats and details about the program and and you know the people involved what they did but the conclusions that they draw from it are completely in our view Fantastical so they really credit all this paranormal stuff they really do see a link between skin walker and UFOs and between UFOs and Consciousness in a sort of metaphysical or paranormal sense whereas we would argue that it's a psychosocial um Dynamic going going on within society and is mediated by the media um let's see anything else there so we also lament that the study of UFOs was not handled scientifically in this uh project in this program that was a missed opportunity and also that their methodology was at times not scientifically sound because they basically took many UFO encounters and reports as Bonafide examples of uh alien or paranormal uh visitations or encounters so when you have those sorts of commitments going in that can really contaminate the results because you're not being careful about the difference between what's real and what's imagined to be real okay so it's sort of like a circular logic or circular argument that they use which is that they assume what they're trying to prove they're going into it with a paranormal commitment next one um view to the Future so some of the things which could uh you know into the future what could be done and some of the possible things which will happen so we expect that there's going to be some more interest in this topic but that at some point the bubble's going to burst and um a lot of the people who are pushing the UFO narrative are going to kind of pull back from it to avoid embarrassment but there will still be a lot of people including in Academia and the scientific Community who will see the government's um promotion or acceptance let's say of UFOs as a kind of green light to look more into this topic and maybe even to credit some of the more esoteric explanations so um there's you know past UFO efforts like Nik cap and others um they also had some good and bad points to them and uh the the current ones going to have more advanced technology and more resources but doesn't mean that they're going to be more scientific all right we uh have acknowledgements here so various people we want to thank uh for comments and suggestions and Corrections and um green uh obviously stepen Green Street who's done a lot of work on the AAP and a tip story and also John Greenwald who has um got this excellent site The Black Vault which he's been maintaining for decades and uh he uncovered a lot of very valuable information through foyer he does kind of credit the ET hypothesis um but you know he still is pretty objective I think in terms of um evaluating the value of certain documents or claims so he's actually debunked a lot of nonsense and pseudoscience out there even though don't fully credit his his take and finally um we end with a cast of characters here so this table kind of summarizing who is involved in the Saga and the um various programs that they were involved with so you can see there on the far left SRI um Stanford Research Institute and that was involved with um CIA psychic research back in the 70s so some people who are now involved with the UFO Saga were involved back then as well um the ATP the advanced theoretical physics project this was actually run by John B Alexander this was an informal effort and it should not be confused with atip by the way completely different and it ended way before atip but this is like an informal effort by various people within the IC and the military to try to find out whether there was some secret knowledge of the US government of ETS and UFOs they came to the conclusion that there probably wasn't even though Alexander himself does have some paranormal beliefs and you know credits to skin walker stuff as well um then you've got nids which is uh set up by Bigalow so the National Institute for Discovery Science so they they were very interested in Consciousness and UFOs they put out some good stuff and some not so good stuff and then you had Bas which was set up to administer or to fulfill the requirements of the solicitation for orap of course they went on to do their own thing within that uh things which veered wildly from what the solicitation said uh orap and ATP itself uh situated within Dia ATP 2 which was Alonzo's effort um ttsa which was a initiative by Tom dong a famous um Blink 182 Rock um band member who's very interested in UFOs he um cooperated with some people in the UFO scene um including alzando uh UAP portfolio and then the UAP PTF there's two versions within the US Navy the aoi MSG and then arrow and um this other one on the far left there the uh that that's some sort of yeah with uh Ryan Graves so he set that up as a kind of um aerial safety and knowledge database for UAP now one more thing I want to say about the paper uh Jack safti who was a um Cornell physicist and um very strong believer in u the ET hypothesis he tries to use physics to try to prove that um ETS are actually using kind of quantum phenomena to induce like high high strangeness effects that that explains kind of time dilation and other things um discrepancies within UFO reports by Witnesses we think that um that's like completely off theark because there's the psychosocial hypothesis um and we think it's just psychology and cognitive science anthropology social science are going to explain this and and some an normalist um atmospheric phenomena okay and sightings which are just misidentified whereas he's trying to use um physics uh to try to prove that ETS are actually coming here and linking it to Quantum Mechanics so the problem there is that you know you're assuming your own conclusions again just like with orap um they're committed to the most exotic explanations and so their databases are going to become very contaminated by that anyway but safti has um you know issued critiques by email to myself and to vent Juan trying to basically trash the paper because of some things we supposedly get wrong we did actually get one thing wrong that he corrected which is that um John B Alexander did not have a PhD in physics he actually has got a PhD in education um but we think that the reason we initially thought it was physics is just a false memory because Alexander is interested in physics and he's got a PhD so we probably just conflated those two we didn't really look too much into that until you know safti corrected it so thanks to him for doing that but we think that the rest of his critique is not on the mark anyway back to you Rachel all right guys how's everyone doing today hope everyone's surviving it's 100 degrees here and uh quite hot and my AC is failing me so it's significantly hotter than I would like it to be uh but today we're going to be talking about the Valen Sol case uh this case has been called uh Europe's uh number one close encounter and one of Europe's best UFO cases by some of their top ufologists it was Jac filet's I guess most interesting case one of his best cases um and valinol uh so I'll just tell you a little bit about valeno Valen Sol is a small town in the French uh basis Alps uh that's kind of particularly well known for its Lavender Fields to the point that uh the Chinese travel there in large numbers when it's during the time of the year that they're growing um in order to take photographs uh do things like weddings um and in fact the scenery is used for a popular Chinese television show um now this small commune of uh Valen Sol and abs provance is roughly about 3,000 inhabitants that live in it um and it's uh also known for a much older event uh The Encounter of a 41y old farmer named Maurice mass and I also just want to give my my usual disclaimer uh for butchering and mispronouncing uh various place people names and whatnot I don't actually speak French uh so I apologize in advance for that and uh Maurice Mass had this kind of plot of a land on this this lavender plateau in valinol uh and this is basically where this encounter had happened and this event takes place during uh okay so start off during the last week of June 1965 Maurice moss and his father had noticed someone that had been picking the shoes from the lavender plants out on their Farm on their little farm or plot of land that's called the olival Lal Lal okay yeah sorry G but of the names and this plot of land is located roughly two kilometers Northwest of allenol uh the Damage Done to their uh Lavender is minor but he hopes to be able to catch them and kind of put a stop to it and about a week it's been going on for about a week and then on the early morning of July 1st uh mass is with his tractor on a field and he's getting ready to start his day and he decides to take a smoke break near a tall pile of rubble and debris it's about 5:45 in the morning and while he's smoking a cigarette he's suddenly startled by this loud whistling kind of sound he decides to step out from behind the pile to get a better look at what is causing the noise at first he thinks it's probably a helicopter that is landed in his field and he would tell people that uh helicopters have landed in or around his field in the past and he always makes an effort to go talk to the pilots he's a hunter and lot of these Pilots I guess like to hunt and fish and he makes an effort to go talk to them when they land but uh instead of a a helicopter he is greeted with an elliptical or what he refers to as a rugby ball shaped object that has a semi-transparent on top the object is resting on uh four to six legs he he reports six legs in pretty much all the initial reports um but you can only see kind of four legs in the drawing there uh but 46 legs roughly 90 meters away from massay in a spot in his lavender field that's just south of a Vineyard um and again like I say there you see four legs there all his initial reports like the John DS and in the media basically say six legs um but he would tell uh ufologist Shak Fila U that it was only four legs he says this object is roughly the size of a A Renault doine automobile uh and it has a center pivot a steel color Center pivot that is lodged into the ground and these are these Renault doine automobiles I guess they're quite popular car in France um at the time and like give you an idea of the kind of size I guess or perspective of these things now squatting down on the ground near this uh device were these two figures dressed in these suits that appear to be examining his lavender plants he would compare the size and shape of these creatures uh to an eight-year-old child uh but as soon as he saw them he knew this was no ordinary encounter Massie aware of the uniqueness of the situation um but a brave and courageous individual he was a resistance fighter in World War II and uh apparently was unafraid but still cautiously as to not like as to come up upon them with surprise uh cuts through this Vineyard uh in order to get a closer look at these creatures and he would call six weeks later in his uh August 18th uh testimony or interview to the Jean Dar Marie uh quote I got within a seven meters from the Machine by skirting around the vineyard that adjoins my field and them making for the machine when I could which I could from an angle from the moment that I had started out from the Heap of stones I knew that it wasn't with men that I had to deal and I watched them the whole time I was moving across through the vineyard both these be were down on the ground they were squatting down one had his back to me and the other one was opposite of him and it seemed to me that they were looking at a lavender plant when I had got to the distance of seven meters with them the one who was facing in my direction then saw me now from his new vantage point of only about 15 to 20 feet away about six or so six seven meters or so he was able to get a better look at these small men that were uh standing basically in front of them and he reports that they're roughly about 1.2 meters in height and they were covered in these kind of uh gray green coveralls and I will report that in a lot of the initial reports uh in some of the press uh reported the coveralls were an orange or like a yellowish color but most of the reporting from just as like a dark color or dark suit color um and the the color of this craft was supposedly like a little darker than the suit color was um but eventually he would say that they were these gray green color uh coverall suits and he reports that they have these large smooth bald pumpkin like heads and their skin is kind of very it's a pale skin he I say quotes their complexion didn't strike me it was close to that of a white man that's where he said it basically look like a a European man um their hands were bare uh but they appeared basically human they you know they didn't have any facial H either in addition to being bald uh where they they had these large kind of slanted eyes that I guess sort of s wrapped around uh you know towards the side a slight bit um but where the mouth was supposed to be all there was was this kind of like a hole and these illustrations kind of uh the problem with illustrations is they don't necessarily represent things exactly accurate the the illustration on the left kind of has a sliit for mouth but there were there basically like a hole there is no lips um and each of these beans also carried on the one right side a small case on the left side supported by a belt a larger case and these beans appear to communicate with each other through this kind of like a grunting or say a gurgling kind of like sound that did not appear to emanate from the mouth because men the the lips did not move as you would expect when somebody is speaking um and it was more like it was like a gutur roll kind of like a sound generating from within now one of the uh and Massi says quote he must have made a sign to the other I suppose both of them stood up and the one that had first faced had turned to face me had made a gesture with his right arm and hand in which I distinguished an object at that moment I was immobilized so I could do uh so I could do no movements I did not feel anything I wasn't numb or contracted I just couldn't make any gestures or move my head arms legs or bodies so uh the being that pointed this tube likee immobilizer uh device at him uh place it back in his case on the right side um on the other side was what Massie thought was a larger what he referred to as a weapon and he'd say that he quote if they had used the big one I wonder what would have happened with that they can stop an army elsewhere you basically said they could have leveled the whole valenceo PL Plateau with the with the larger weapon that they had uh instead they use a smaller weapon on him that is almost kind of like you would imagine the Men in Black neuralizer it just kind of uh freezes him in place uh but it's not a h it's not like a muscular contraction because he still has full control of uh you know like his involuntary movements like his heart still pumping he's still breathing um but he's just kind of Frozen in place it's almost like it's almost like when you go into a sleep State uh when you're asleep you're you know you still breathe your heart still goes but your body shuts off you know your your conscious movement and function so you're not like kicking around and moving around in your sleep uh so it was kind of kind of like that uh so he was immobilized by this object and he he hints that these being you know may have uh also had a telepathic communication um with him but he refuses to talk about what happens really after he becomes immobilized uh Relentless efforts by investigators over the years to try and you know discover his Secrets would fail um but he he would insist that the entities were kind and meant us no harm um and despite their larger skull which in some places are for is two to three times kind of larger than Norm normal uh their faces were typically human not just humanoid they were human um Mel would suggests that the differences such as the larger heads and whatnot were an adaptation for the environment uh they are from but it's the typical human form which would suggest a human genetic code he even goes on to suggest a a potential hybrid breeding program um based on selected you know utility and function that the these alien beings or whatever would need based on the environment and situation so uh and Massie he would say to Amy Miguel uh they they are good they have only good intentions St us that I am sure and Mel would respond back to him but but how do you know that and he says I can tell you I don't know how I know but I am sure of it so he was positive he couldn't explain why but he was positive of the good nature of these being now these two small beans uh after he after he becomes immobilized and there's a little bit of dispute here uh one of his reports to the je Mar say that uh uh it was four to five minutes after he was immobilized that these beings then took off um and during this time they were seemingly communicating with each other but the vast majority of the reports say that immediately after he's immobilized they quickly enter the craft to kind of take off and they enter this craft with you know with they say a surprising agility and I was a little bit confused by that as as were others but what I take it to mean is that the doorway of this craft was not much larger than their frame it was only slightly taller than they are and only slightly wider than they are so they kind of had to kind of go into it uh not that easily um but they had they moved through the doorway nimbly facing the right hand on the door uh first and then climbing in and with the left hand and then this door basically slides up uh from the bottom to the top so it's one of these sliding doors again and with a dull noise of whistling sound the pivot that was stuck into the ground retracts back into the hole disappearing and the metal legs start to rotate uh clockwise uh almost like uh like a helicopter that was upside down you know like it those legs apparently start to rotate around but while it's doing this uh there's you know there's no dust you know being or smoke that's raised by the devic's movement um and while it's raising up the ground Mass observes uh the two be are watching him through that transparent coua that's on the top of the craft while he's watching these beans the object begins to move away on an oblique trajectory uh so it's it's moving away in an opposite direction so if you're um Imagining the occupants are facing you uh and looking at you it starts to move basically like backwards away as they're looking at you in the opposite direction and it's it's doing this um at immense speed uh West towards uh the the town of manosque and this object remained visible uh for only about 20 meters uh in the air before it suddenly just disappeared a vanished uh in a you know immense great deal of speed and Amy mckel would ask him and trying to clarify like what he what he means by vanish like it like disappear or does it just get so fast that he couldn't follow it anymore and and he had a little difficulty explaining but he just said it was gone it just it it disappeared it was there and then it wasn't there anymore and he scanned the sky and he could not see it uh but despite uh not being able to see it after about 20 meters they did discover these traces in the ground of uh going for about 100 meters in the direction that the craft took off from he's still unable to move for about 15 minutes and when he's then finally able to slowly recover the use of his limbs 3 days after the event he would suffer from uh you know about of extreme lethargy he would basically require 12 to 15 hours of sleep a day instead of the usual 4 five hours that he typically required and this would go on for several weeks before sleep patterns would return to normal um and after gain regaining uh control of his body he went to investigate the spot uh this object had rested on um now at the Landing site he finds that the ground is soaked uh but it will later become extremely hard like cement when it dries and he finds a slight depression that's roughly 1.2 meters in diameter in the shape of a bowl and within the center a cylindrical hole about 18 cmers in diameter and 40 cmers deep that ends in these three small holes that could suggest that some sort of device was opening up in the base of the pivot and finally he discovers these four uh furrows forming a cross extending from the center hole um and these these cross basically represent where these Landing legs were the four points and he would return later that evening at about 8:30 p.m. with his 18-year-old daughter um and discovered that that liquid mud that he discovered in the morning had now hardened like cement and now that Center hole had become kind of the shape of reverse funnel or a SE sump pump if you know what that looks like if you look at that image of the ground traces with those three kind of legs you can kind of imagine it it looks like that um and now there's a little bit of uh uncertainty as to what he does after he regains full uh Mobility Beyond checking that uh Landing site um in the later in a later interview with the je dories he states that quote I remained immobilized for quite a long time after the Depression of the machine I estimate about 15 minutes obviously daring against my will and I was afraid of remaining so long without being able to move then I was able to move my hands and almost immediately the whole body and my limbs as before I then left for my tractor lit a cigarette and continued my work until half past 7 or 8 o' mounted on my machine i h my Vineyard a little which is not the one I mentioned above then I return home around 8:30 or 9:00 a.m roughly and you know he says he's not he has a watch but he's not in the habit of looking at it so he's not 100% sure on the time right uh and so this so in that version of the story he he continues working uh for you know at least a few hours um or a couple hours uh before he I guess returns home however this is not the version that is usually reported um and in this in most versions of the story he did not return to work or he he tried to turned to work but his heart was not in it instead he immediately went to town to visit a friend of his the proprietor of the Cafe des Sports um and he would report to uh in a different in one of his earlier was one of his first uh reports uh with the John DS on July 2nd that it was about 10:30 when he got at his friend's house so so if you recall this event happened at about 5:45 a.m. um if you figure you know it was maybe 15 minutes minutes till they took off uh maybe 15 minutes after that till he was nonparalyzed maybe 6:15 uh where did the four hours go so there's almost an element of unexplained or missing time here that hasn't been accounted for um depending on the versions of the stories but there does regardless what version seems to be several hours before this happens to when he actually ends up going to tell his friend uh the story uh and so he he gets to this Cafe day sports and he tells his buddy this story uh who's the proprietor of this Cafe and he tells him mass that he should report it to the police but Mass doesn't really want any attention and he doesn't want to be called crazy or to be locked away you know tot's insane and doesn't want to go out of his way but his friend of his doesn't really want to leave it there he ends up going out and checking the landing site and confirming that uh there are these marks there and starts to spread the story around the village and it gets around pretty quickly and people start to really come to the site uh and investigate it and he starts to get large amounts of visitors um and they start to kind of the marks end up getting kind of trampled down a bit uh and he uh the story would eventually be to the attention of the jeary the local jeary and venol uh commander on the evening of July 2nd now Massie would uh be interviewed by that local Valen Al Brigade commander in the evening at about 800m they would be joined by a company commander and a research Brigade Commander I believe from digy uh which is the the I guess the largest closest town um at about 10m who conducted a further investigation of the ground and took photos of the site um the these phot they were actually taken on the the morning of the 3D it was already 11 something uh at night um on the 2 and so on the morning of the 3 they came back to continue their investigation and take these photos and on the evening of the 2 uh they investigated uh or they interviewed uh mass and these are some of the photos they took uh where you can see these kind of I guess these furrows uh and this Landing Center impression Mark that the things left but that was basically all that was there they they could see that uh those some a lot of the landing marks I guess were overran by the people that kind of visited the site and the the John DARS themselves uh notied the presence of this ground depression uh but also like I said that the other traces have been erased by visitors uh but they're convinced of the kind of good faith and credibility of the witness uh he's a respected a man around town um not only does he own this lavender field and Farm um he he actually owns the local lavender Distillery the the lavender grown and distilled for the perfume industry and he was a partner with I believe two other two other farmers in the region that owned this uh theery that processed the lavender so he he a respected member of this small town community and so they they took his statement uh as truthful and in good faith but for several years uh the lavender would have trouble uh growing at the site Massie uh would uh plow the ground and try to replant the lavender but the new plants would not take and they would die and wlt away you know shortly after uh and the area would become overgrown uh with like weeds and grass and you can see that in this picture here uh which I believe was I believe this one was taken two years later uh and you can still see these grass and weeds growing in the area there and if fact that imprint would be continue to be uh visible to investigators visiting the site for years um these photos were taken in uh 1969 um by uh a French uh physicist uh who went there to investigate the case and you could still see the grass and weeds kind of overgrown and running in the field with this Landing with this craft you know kind of allegedly landed and it would take about 8 to 10 years actually before uh the lavender would kind of return and start to uh grow like normal now uh the Press became immediately involved in this story and uh a guy Victor Nathan who is a journalist with Le provol uh accompanied the John DARS on their invest uh on their investigation to the site on the second he would snag the first interview with mass and published a story and this is a translated English title obviously did a flying saua land in the low Alps on July 3rd um now several other articles would be published over the following days um in the regional and French Press um the uh newspaper La Deli Libya published an article a flying saucer in the basis Alps and uh these these initial two articles were what the first article uh in I believe flying SAA review uh that kind of broke the story to the English well that's not actually true uh the first story I guess the kind of uh English UFO literature uh the first story in F's review on this was based on these uh kind of two initial news print reports and uh he would follow it up again with another story the following day on July 4th mystery remains hold on the valon saw Flying Saucer now not everyone was convinced of the kind of uh phenomenal nature of this event and in uh the Paris paper the month on July 4th they would published an article that says the Flying Saucer was certainly a helicopter uh and say yeah so they were basically convinced that there were several helicopters in the area taking part in this operation uh and that he certainly would have been flying over on and near Valena and we'll get to that kind of operation um in a minute uh but they start to mention in the papers almost immediately but there is a lot of push back as well and again in L province in Ju on July 5th they push back and say saucer unknown craft but not a helicopter and Massie uh would basically a lot of people you know understandably would ask how could he confuse a helicopter at only such a short distance um but the suggestion that it was what was one of these Alouette helicopters uh and he couldn't tell it you know seemed ridiculous he would tell people that uh it he counted six legs on it but there was no rotor you know no blade uh so it it wasn't a helicopter so he very clear that it could not be a helicopter despite you know the Press publishing that that was the most rational explanation at the time and another paperwor published an article the sa of Valena Leal uh talking about his unusual experience uh he he was pest by reporters many reporters apparently for uh several day quite a few days that he ended up apparently having a nervous wreck or nervous kind of breakdown or at least that's what was reported uh in a follow-up paper uh and he basically took out of town got out of town um and went you know somewhere else for a while to visit uh supposed I guess his daughter uh they were on vacation in G or something um but he got out of town to get away from the reporters the porter still kind of followed him and still you know got in told got in touch with him while he was on vacation you know to try and get statements from him and it but it wasn't you know the only it wasn't Only The French Press uh that got involved in this uh pretty much immediately uh through the various Yi Services the US press got involved in the stories in fact as soon as July 3 the same day the first story published in the French media uh it was published in a Lancaster I believe it's Pennsylvania a newspaper uh saying fly saucers left tracks on a farm Frenchman says and it would be published in the the Sunday post I want to say it's the lond London Sunday post uh on July 4th and the Washington Post would pick it up for a much larger story on July 5th uh called Frenchmen sees a flying object and it would be included in many other papers throughout the United States uh even just small blips about a Frenchman you know encountering small beings on his farm in his farm in France so it got a lot of uh attention and coverage pretty immediately you you could see how somebody could become overwhelmed and want to get out of town for a while now on August 8th one of France's leading ufologists would show up on scene to investigate the site uh and this is I me been mentioning him already Amy mckel uh and he uh and and the site would also be investigated by a UFO group uh G EPA um and they were one of the also first people to publish a report on this story a local Anonymous magistrate uh uh for GPA did the investigation and that was also published in flying offer review but on August 8th Amy mcel shows up to kind of do his own investigation and he finds that the traces of lavender are visible for a good 100 meters along the direction of the takeoff of The Craft so he found those you know those marks that were left after the craft take off took off um and as far as even I guess this little kind of shanty or abandoned house uh towards Minos and even Beyond um and he says quote these traces are degeneration of the young suit shoots prior to July 1 which are going dry and falling off and a singular Vitality of the shoots after July 1 and Mel would returned to the site uh returned to Valen seven more times for a follow-up investigation in fact two years later uh on August 21st of 1967 Mel would uh come with uh flying saua review editor Charles Bowen they would drive to Valen Sol to interview mass and to investigate the site on this encounter uh they would find mass was calm and Serene uh compared to the visible distress that Mikel found him in two years earlier uh the results of these investigations that uh both male and Mel and Bowen and others would be published in flying SAU review over the uh late 1960s uh pretty much starting in Fall of 1965 and the last uh article was published in 1969 now one of the things that uh Mel did uh in August 1965 when he was there uh after he felt that he got all the information out of uh Mass because he didn't want to contaminate Mass's story with his own uh uh UFO information so after he fell he got all he could out of him he decided to show Mass a photo of what was a model of the sakuro New Mexico craft and now when M saw this uh this this photo which you know it wasn't a photo it was like a I mean a model basically uh he he was shocked he basically he reported Mel reported that it looked like death kind of washed over him that uh uh this was his craft he was so surprised and he would tell Mel like what where'd you get this somebody took a picture of my craft you know how'd they get this picture of my craft and Mel would say no this is just this is a model of a craft that a police officer saw in sord to Mexico the year before and it it was so similar to him that he said you see that I wasn't dreaming and then I'm not mad and there are plenty of act other crafts that kind of match of a similar description uh this is a case in Luca Italy from July 25th in 1952 of a craft that's also kind of on these legs it it almost looks like there's a different separate kind of platform there but there's a kind of a ladder going in it's it's not exact um but if you look at some of the this these sakuro New Mexico kind of illustrations and the artwork and and again illustrations not exactly like the case in these Soro illustrations apparently this first illustration um is a bit more more accurate uh uh it was seen really only on these kind of like two legs like that uh these four legs on the ground and on that side is Artistic Liberty but if you were to see a sakuro New Mexico sauce illustration like that and a Valen one you could quite easily think that they were of the same sighting in fact many of the illustrations from sakur almost looked like they were taken like it was like they're in a lavender field so so he was but basically so he shown this to Coro and he was confirmed to him that people are seeing the same thing as him and that it was real it was not his craft that they took a photo of but it was identical in his mind anyways now obviously the most down toe explanation is that moris Moss saw a military helicopter that has landed on his field perhaps one of the aloette 2 or aloette 3 Type in fact Mass did first report that he thought it was a helicopter landing in his field and that it is uh you know something that they have done in the past and that he had a habit of talking to the pilots uh when they had made those stops and as I briefly mentioned before in that newspaper article it is in fact known that there was a military operation going on at this time called prant 65 that has been that had been taking place in the area since June 30th and uh this again was published within you know the papers uh at the time and these helicopters were taking uh off from you know this base kind of area uh in the plateau of Alan nearby and this operation basically they were doing Maneuvers and practice drills and and I guess one of them perhaps was this uh drill that uh of like a potential nuclear attack or disaster and at this time or the year before uh the valeno plateau was actually being considered along with the plateau of albian as being the location of a a nuclear I guess missile site they wanted to put a bunch of nukes there they eventually chose albian um but Valen Soul was up for consideration along with albian in order for that that nuclear future nuclear project but we do know at this time that this province 65 operation was taking place and it was published in the newspapers and these are the the basically the type of helicopters uh that they suggest the the Alo two and the Alo uh three and you can see that uh particularly like this one on the left while it only impacts the ground in one point there there's two struts so you could almost mistake that as two legs but only getting one ground imprint from that you don't get the same kind of ground imprints you would with the the the ones kind of have these track kind of uh legs but if you also look at the the kind of pilot uniforms you can see the descriptions are kind of Fairly similar you've got a a covered uh they're wearing these coveralls the helmets they're wearing makes their head look bigger and like they have got large wraparound eyes and the size of a normal Soldier uh kind of squatting down might be about 1.2 you know millimeters and this paper uh shows uh basically you know flashlights these kind of guys might be carrying that do look like these two like devices that you might see uh now this uh this is from a paper by an Eric Malo mot uh where he discusses the the psycho kind of traumatic effects of uh kind of a psychot trauma theory for this case um where he did have this experience but uh the details perhaps kind of got distorted and he he describes I I just kind of want to read here a psychotraumatic event is a a phenomenon of an invasion of the psych and an overflowing of its defenses by violent excitations associated with the occurrence of an event that is aggressive or threatening to the life or Integrity either physical or just psychically of an individual who is exposed to it as a victim or as a witness or as an actor and he says it's usually things like disasters accidents assaults attacks and events are likely to generate these psychotraumatic disorders and when you're suffering from one of these kind of episodes of depersonalization or derealization um you suffer from effects that match quite well with producing experiences like this it says uh derealization may be associated with this experience as the feeling that the external world is strange or unreal the subject May perceive disturbing changes in the size or the shapes of objects known as macropa or micropia people may seem strange sometimes even robotic peering other frequently Associated features include anxiety symptoms depressive symptoms obsessive rumination somatic preoccupations and altered perceptions of time these Associated disorders are characterized by a partial or complete loss of the normal functions of integration of memories Consciousness Identity or immediate Sensations loss of control of bodily movement dissociate stup characteristics uh characterizes victims in a dazed and stupied state so his theory is essentially you know this guy could have had an encounter with these helicopters perhaps due to uh a kind of a post-traumatic stress event perhaps uh from his experience as a resistant fighter during the war and this encounter with these military helicopters or uh you know and this these men in military guard basically was a itic incident to him and those effects do you know you can see they they match in a way uh you know you do get kind of like a body paralysis you kind of get Frozen and and you've seen that you know in people that just get terrified for something it's like they're not physically paralyzed it's just they can't move they're kind of just like stuck there and He suggests that that's kind of what happened in this case here um I want to uh see if I can bring up a video here uh see see one of these things and I want you to pay attention at the end of the kind of the sound these things make you're asking hey as it as just put down [Music] he [Music] that so when these helicopters both shut down and take off you get a loud high pitch kind of whine or whistling kind of sound that is basically what was reported uh by mass when he was startled by that sound and wanted to see what was going on and that sound you know he did believe it was a helicopter at first possibly partially because of that sound he heard and so it's that's one thing to take into consideration um but you also have to again Ask how he would be confused uh by seeing a helicopter and he was quite certain that it did not uh contain uh a rotor or any of these other aspects that a helicopter typically had and how was he uh paralyzed uh uh you know if these beings pointed something at him how was he paralyzed again we have an answer a psychological answer let me see let's remove that St and uh Amy Mel would comment uh as well that quote the police who made the first investigation State categorically that the shape of the marks on the ground show that they were made by no known type of machine which is contrary to the explanations of the military authorities who have not even examined the marks so helicopter not a helicopter that's the rational explanation that was given at the time it's the rational explanation that is still given now about later Jack fet a French American ufologist would meet with mass in May 1979 and he met with valet he confirmed that this object actually only rested on four legs not six which again contradicts all the kind of earlier reports and which is reported as six legs in fact reports in the media and he would tell people it looked like a monstrous spider um although spiders do have six six uh have eight legs not six legs uh so uh valet met with him and he would uh also go on to tell him that he had uh witnessed to these Craft on other occasions as well and this is something that he would share with Amy Mel uh when they were there in 1967 um that he would have these other uh sightings or Encounters in the area he shared one of these stories uh in which he was kind of laying uh laying in bed sleep during one night and he was woken up uh as kind of almost told by a voice you know uh he got this feeling that they were back and that he should go look at the sky and you know see uh See if he could see these this object again and when he gets there he sees the light traveling pass now uh this event took place uh the exact time and location of a a Russian uh Cosmos rocket re-entry event uh that was seen by many people in the area and that unfortunately was likely what he saw but there's you know reason to believe that he had several more at least sightings and was told uh uh other sightings by people in the area over the years and he would deny to valet that this kind of experience had any sort of religious implications for him but it clearly did affect him on a deep level uh valet like many of the investigators before him would uh try and get get get his Secrets out of him you know try and figure out more what happened after he became a mobilized ized before the beans took off see if there was this message that was kind of uh given to him uh but like the investigators before him valet would leave with the feeling that it was quote clear Mass had never told the entire truth about his experience and I just want to show you guys a clip real quick here of uh valet briefly talking about this on a talk show because this goes on all over the world right all all different governments have absolutely the same stuff going on right I've had a chance to uh to study cases of course in France all over Europe and in in South America and of course in the US what's the weirdest case youve ever studied I'm not sure the you know weird is for right term for it the most stimulating from a scientific point of view is a a case in France in which a um a farmer was staring his tractor at 6:00 in the morning and he saw something in his field some distance away and he thought it was a helicopter or maybe a strange car that shouldn't have been there in his field so he walked over and all of a sudden he was paralyzed he saw two small creatures they were not quite the ones that you have here they looked they looked uh they were very small but they had normal heads and they were they had normal human features but he was paralyzed and they started speaking to each other in some strange language went back into the object the object took C the interesting things that there were traces left those traces were studied by various agencies of the French government there was no question he was not lying the the traces could not be duplicated um the and he was paralyzed for 20 minutes after the object left which is is very interesting from a point of view of the the effect of the kind of radiation that that object may have been creating and this is a very common report on the part of witnesses with they this feeling of paralysis so this case obviously had a great impact on valet and he considers it you know one of the most stimulating cases he has ever worked on he would uh publish it talk about it uh first briefly in his book dimensions and he would discuss it more deeply in his chap on Botanical data in his book confrontations a search for alien contact now uh however he would do a canid interview with that uh French physicist that I mentioned visited uh him uh or he wouldn't do can when that French visit physicist visited uh he he tried to talk to Moss but uh in fact he he met moss moss basically lied and said he wasn't Moss that oh yeah look like him but I'm not him and basically he wasn't able to get an interview with moss but he was able to get an interview uh with when he he tried to show up again that next day to trying again catch an interview with moss uh unsuccessful met Moss's wife and talked to her and she would relate to him that it was actually a very Spirit spiritual experience with moss he was permanently Changed by the experience and it would kind of end up following him for the rest of his life she said quote M had a feeling of religious respect for the beings from space he guarded The Landing site as having now become their property as a sacred place where he Mass was merely the manager in fact she says that he stopped watering the the ground which may have something to do with the plants not growing but uh so he stopped watering the ground because he felt that it wasn't his place to mess with the ground that this this land was the property of these beings that landed there um but but there's a little bit of a problem with this though because it it was such a sacred place that he ordered people not to touch or mess around with And he supposedly told his family not to sell the land and to never mess with the land even after he died uh then why did he talk about one wanting to dig it all up you know right after it happened and in fact he did his wife did say he buried the hole back in um and he did repow and reglow the area several times so that kind of contradicts this story that uh he considered it kind of like sacred holy land that he wouldn't touch anymore and he didn't want anyone else to touch but that is what his wife reported uh but he reported to valet directly that it was not a spiritual case for him uh but whatever happened uh it it had a deep impact on him for the rest of his life anyway uh now this case was also later investigated uh the French UFO group jeon um uh wasn't around at the time uh they didn't uh they didn't establish themselves until May 1977 and japon basically sense the group on unidentified air space phenomenon and they looked at this case and class ended up classifying it what's called a dtype phenomenon which means it was not identifiable by experts who had uh basically comprehensive accurate reports and were still unable to come to a final uh conclusion uh I imagine it's somewhat uh similar to kind of like how he would describe a UFO and so they they leave this case as a a a Class D or D type phenomenon case but 20 lers uh a group uh former group of former hn members and hdn was the institute for higher studies of National Defense would produce a famous uh French report called the Keda report which Leslie Kean is actually kind of famous for publishing in uh English and uh writing stories about and it kind of what what brought her into the UFO uh phenomenon uh supposedly and that Commander report uh included the balance all case uh in its uh uh feature permanently in its report that it put out in 1999 and it it basically even went so far as to saying that the witness who was shot with this tube or paralyzing device uh explained it way as a pulse microwave effect similar to being used today by other anti-personnel microwave weapons and so they they kind of reach I I think a little bit with that uh They concluded that the witness kind of like dejan d Armory did that they he didn't exhibit any of these kind of uh behaviors that was affect mythomania or that he was kind of hoaxing this situation and it's one of their very few cases that they consider unexplained uh divite despite what they consider the richness of the data available and this story uh would continue to uh uh be published kind of in popular media and culture throughout this uh presentation I have used a slides from a French comic by giggy and lob uh that I had translated the text into English uh but it was also featured uh in an American comic series called UFOs and flying saucers that was published by gold key Western in the late 70s and they take a bit more Liberty with the the way they illustrate and visualize uh this case than the French Comics that I used earlier did uh but it's it's still cool to look at all these different places illustrate this and and I actually own this comic uh right there in ex excellent shape uh and this story would kind of be taken up by this guy would kind of become its Advocate uh ma cheso uh and he was M's neighbor and Mass was again he he didn't like to talk to people about this story he really wasn't interested in uh sharing it and telling it to people and so when press and reporters would come around this guy this other Maurice uh would basically uh do the interviews and in a lot of the coverage you can find uh in documentaries and uh various news coverage going back so some years this guy is kind of like the main Advocate keeping the story alive and it's important to note that uh Maurice Moss died uh 20 years ago uh so he's no longer with us um his his grandchildren uh still are however and this guy also runs this kind of local Heritage situation uh local Heritage Association where he's got this uh mural that's painted of the the incident and newspaper articles from the time and he's put on various kind of festivals and events in 2015 he put on um a major kind of UFO conference in Valena uh to celebrate the case and they hold these expositions uh in town um there's one right now so if you happen to live uh in Bol or visiting southern France through the entire month of July uh you can go and visit this uh Valena case Exposition that they've got going on there I don't know if they do it every year I don't know about last year I know they didn't it in 2022 um but they they do these events uh to kind of keep the story alive and going and in fact they they kind of erected a historical landmark uh kind of out at or or near the site I I don't actually believe it's located on the exact coordinates um I think it's kind of like across like the road um and and this appears to be a temporary marker that they initially built perhaps at one of the earlier expositions uh and because it looks a little bit cheaper and a bit less structurally sound than what is there now if you use Google satellite and kind of like shared Google photos to look at it now the the craft looks to be a bit more structurally sound and permanent and instead of these little green guys they've got an actual kind of like a a farmer Moss figure and they've got like a little guy kind of like next to the craft but this is a temporary marker and people come still come out to visit it you know like say this is like Europe's supposedly best close encounter case and so people that are out there uh in France like to visit this location and they can visit this Landmark that you can find on Google Maps it's called under a wayar called uh bance Souls ET and in fact a year or two ago uh this guy Dominique F uh again sorry about the name would produce this documentary uh or drama I believe it's a a split I have not seen it um I would love to see it one day uh with subtitles um but there's obviously at least a bit an element of dramatization I think it's kind of like a docu drama um where they had actors kind of recreate the scenes uh looks kind of interesting and they I talked to his you know grandson and whatnot now there's there's a lot of um uh one of the things that kind of stands out to me about this case is that I'm almost I'm almost a little surprised that it's considered uh kind of the top close encounter because it's really not unique um like not even remotely like in fact there does not really seem to be anything really impressive or unique about this case at all um if people are aware France um and Italy had a big wave of sightings in October 1954 um some of like the more famous One was the mar uh Mario stald siding and quadral uh France uh but there was many sightings and all you have to do is look at uh Jack Vala's book passport to Magonia turn to the middle of October 1954 and you can read dozens of cases almost identical to Morris mes exciting involving these small four feet or so tall dwarf creatures um involving paralyzation Rays or beams or devices that paralyze either the person or a dog or you know something and then these crafts tend to take off or hover be briefly visible above the ground for a while before disappearing in advanced speed and so there's kind of this long history of these short dwarf like entity encounter cases with paralyzing r uh in the French Countryside in fact in many locations uh where uh Mass lived and were reported in the same newspapers uh regional and local newspapers that published his story so it it stretches the imagination to believe that he was not fully aware of many of these other stories that were going around um in the town that he lived in uh but it's up to you I guess to decide uh whether you thought uh he got some of the elements from his story I think it's possible there is definitely some cultural contamination or contamination from other events I kind of potentially seeped in to the story and kind of uh one other thing I just noted that stuck out to me when I stumbled across these illustrations uh this is from the first French edition of translation of HD Wells book The War of the World illustrated by Henrik aim Cora and in one of these illustrations here you can almost see it where uh it kind of almost looks like it's rugby ball shaped and it's got this Center kind of like a drill pivot behind it and it's on legs on the photo on the other side it doesn't really so much look like an electrical object or rugby shaped Ball but again you see these kind of central pivots and they're standing on you know what is what four three four legs uh and the ones shooting a ray gun so there clearly a lot of potential both contamination from science fiction and just a long history of UFO cases of this type in the very region and areas of France you know that uh Mass would be familiar with so uh with that I I will leave you basically with something that uh uh he Mass relay to valet when he was there in May 197 n um in regards to uh his sighting and what he thought about it and again M Mel uh would also Amy mcel would earlier in August 1967 say that Mr mess is a man that uh there no there dwells of certainty a man who no longer displays any curiosity as to what the folk who have studied the question at Great length like Charles bow and myself might say to him so he says you know Mass basically knows what he saws he's he doesn't need convinc uh and he doesn't need to convince anyone else and unlike us ufologists who uh have not experienced it and have been looking for answers he's already got the answers and and he says uh this to Jack Vala to observe something like this was qu the very best thing I could wish on anyone but added that a witness should not say anything not even to his wife and children one always says too much so he leaves us this case with this you know a bit of mystification where you know we don't know all the details it's it's potentially likely we'll never know all the details um supposedly he may have shared some of these secrets of his uh with some some researchers there's a a lady investigator who um says she plans to publish further information in a book but she's it's only coming out after she is dead so it's going to be a post humously published book uh of hers so not only is Val as mass dead for 20 years now we have to wait for this lady to die before we get to hear what he supposedly may have said at some point way back when um honestly I don't see all the point for that mystification uh and you know keeping these secrets but Mass felt that you shouldn't tell these encounters to anyone apparently and so we have again like many of the cases I've covered a a a fascinating and highly strange Strange Case uh but again with only one witness uh we we are left thinking perhaps it was a helicopter perhaps it was a traumatic incident U maybe it was a another explanation was the waking dream uh that we've seen given for many of the cases that I've covered the osil case um the Joe Simon pancake case and to me that does seem actually quite plausible we have all this missing time uh between when he showed up to tell his story and when incident took place and perhaps that's because when he was out there smoking a cigarette he actually just fell asleep and in a state of kind of a lucid dream one of these helicopters landed in his field and he distorted the facts you know and it became you know this crazy story that when he woke up that he went and told people who knows that's I guess will be up to you to decide or maybe he was visited by these creatures from from elsewhere uh I guess we'll never know again like all these stories the the main Witnesses are dead there's nowhere we can really else go with the evidence I think at this point and it'll be up to other people to decide uh what they want to deal with this case but but honestly while it's a fun and very interesting case and there's a lot of material on it I I don't see why it's been put up as like the best case because it's not even particularly unique um I think I think there's probably far better cases in Europe to be addressed well thank you guys very much so I just realized uh at some point during the show that my my mic was not plugged into my computer sorry if my computer was making weird sounds at the beginning I didn't notice it yeah it's uh yeah hey Jeff um one thing that immediately occurred to me is um the shape of that UFO in that French case it sort of looked kind of like an egg right yep so would you say that is there any evidence that there's a preponderance of like egg shapes in like uh rural or Farm based UFO sightings which could kind of speak to obviously the motif of an egg because that's what people kind of used to there but also like uh Brian santies and others have spoken of the egg as a kind of um alchemical symbol of creation so do you think those things could be incorporated into that sighting yeah maybe it's possible I I do know that there are sightings that that go back that do uh that are described in the same way um I found a sighting from I think n or uh but it was ating in 1954 uh again described as a rugby ball-shaped object uh you know with things coming off of it and so and and many of these sightings in France in these rural areas and even Italy were described as kind of like these elliptical or kind of rugby ball ooid shaped kind of like objects and of course we got them in sakuro and other places in the us but as far as why they actually see them as that kind of shape I mean who knows uh like I said I I can see a comparison with uh uh the helicopters P personally particularly if you were kind of suffering from either a traumatic incident or like awaking dream I know that I've been kind of half awake where where things have been going on around me and I kind of wake up with like this like distorted memory of like what happened um and uh you know that it does seem quite real you know to you many times seems more real than real life seems to you and I can see how you can get confused um but again with this guy there's a lot of uh with a lot of these guys there these these contradictions right like a lot of people say this guy's trustworthy like he never tell these crazy stories um we believe him he's a good member of the society but then you actually will read with mass in one at least one newspaper where they said they talked to towns people and said mass is known for telling literal Fish Tales like he loved to brag about trout he caught as long as his arm and he was known for telling crazy dramatic fantastic iCal stories around town that people found fascinating and interesting which contradicts literally everything else in the literature like that's only mentioned in like one of the news articles uh so it's like you always got you know some people in the town that will back up the guy say this guy's like top level he'd never you know make up something and you'd never have a crazy experience and but I one thing I I forgot to mention that I think is important to note uh when talking about these psych potential psychological explanations is that a lot of people are like like but not crazy like like he's a you know a sane reasonable levelheaded guy like and the problem is is like people thinking of it as crazy these events happen to literally everyone All Humans it's not like a special unique kind of person that suffers from these various traum psychotraumatic episodes or Waking dreams or we are all susceptible and become victim to them and they're typically like many times transient oneoff events and they're not indicative of like larger pathological issues the people involved and so rarely are despite this kind of straw man that's regly put up that you're calling people crazy rarely are you seeing they're actually crazy and they're hallucinating it's more often you're saying that perhaps they're misperceiving things or that they're suffering from memory issues from other incidents that doesn't make them crazy they're still perfectly normal functioning members of society they just had a one-off incident um and I think that's important to note that it it even if what he saw wasn't the exper experience as it really happened does not make him a crazy individual that just hallucinated it all that's another word I kind of hate that's used in ufology because again rarely things are outright hallucinated like you're not just seeing things that are not there you're seeing something you just Mis perceiving misinterpreting what it actually is and I think it's important that we distinguish that and kind of get rid of a lot of these Straw Men that you know you're calling people crazy and unwell when that's not what you're saying at all like you know you for me could just as easily be susceptible to having one of these incidences where we you know drastically reinterpret you know our experiences in a Fantastical way so yeah I agree I also found that a lot of people get into the various nuclear aspects and that nuclear project that they wanted they I guess put some like 18 nuclear missiles uh France wanted to show the world that you know they're at Power and they're ready to fight back and so there's that competition at the time that I guess also potentially would have had drastic effects on like the local economy and like Lavender Fields and plowing and stuff if you're kind of going to go replace that with a nuclear facility uh and so you know there could have been some underlying stress you know going on over that situation ultimately like I said it they chose the albian plateau a little bit you know nearby instead of the valinol plateau but they were doing those military operations which from what I read may have included simulated like nuclear attacks and maybe he encountered one of these kind of very secretive like nuclear attack simulations and they put this fear of death in him and you know that kind of created traumatic experience to him you know maybe these guys even went a little overboard with like the threats and that triggered you know a post tromatic stress incident from his time serving in the resistance during World War II who knows uh again we can't can't talk to him we could talk to some of the people that are still around that knew him and try and kind of gather more information about how he was affected by it but again with this case so many people seem insistent on continuing the mystification factor and keeping it you know a mystery so I'm not sure we'll ever get anywhere else with it unfortunately um well a couple of notes on the show tonight um it's really hot here on the West Coast for all us and uh we're just sitting here Sweating Bullets also apparently Jeff's dog Dorothy is feeling ill so please everyone send your wishes for Dorothy yes have her in your thoughts she's she's not even even where she is now she's been laying on the ground and she hasn't eaten anything in a couple of days and just threw up in four separate places right before the show that I had to clean up before the show and she she's drinking water but I hope it's just a temporary bug so yes send her your good wishes and thoughts some of the things that Jeff goes through preparing for this show he just he is such a trooper and I'm so grateful for him maybe my maybe my presentation my trial run I gave her before hand was just so nauseating that it made her spew all over the ground who knows you making fun of my presentation no yeah thank you oh yeah it could be the heat that's a good point Rich yeah thank you um also another thing um this uh segment that we're doing right here is what we like to call or what I like to call the the banter segment so it's basically like you know we get a talk on the show but we don't really get to the meat of you know a sort of a discursive uh and potentially critical response until the EOS chat next week but in the future what we're planning to do during this segment instead of doing banter is we're g to actually cover um the book uh UFO iwi or what is it called um the reliability of UFO witness testimony um so that's what you can expect during this part of the show in our next episode we'll just be going through the book chapter by chapter I think is probably what we're going to do and uh and talk about if you guys recall I I talked about three of the chapters in one of my previous things oh yeah that's true well we're going to start from the beginning of the book and run through it and when we get around to those chapters we'll just talk about them again sounds good because there's a lot to learn from that like I said when that book came out I shared I've shared it a lot and I continue to share it because the chapters are so great and there's just there's so many people in this topic that won't even look at that book they they see a book that's about the reliability of witness testimony and they're like it's just a bunker garbage we're not going to read this debunker nonsense and and that's just that's not a good like approach to take because if are serious about finding true Mysteries you need to be able to understand you know the fraility of human memory of witness testimony and these other factors if you're interested in actually getting to the truth and a lot of these chapters are written you know like they're not actually like mainstream they're not like Skeptics or debunkers like a lot of them are actual like like mainstream urologists like that are written these chapters like Eddie Bard you know B dros like uh you know a lot of these guys so it's it's important to read this stuff and I wish more people would look at stuff like that instead of just having a knee- reaction to dismiss it uh that all it is is going to be debunking people's experiences and it's not about debunking people's experiences it's about understanding them better yeah yeah so I agree yeah and if if we want to find like the really weird highly strange experiences you know like the people have actually had then we have to be able to identify those amidst all of the other reports like that's another type of signal to look for like if you're looking for ball lightning in UFO reports and you're going to look for a particular type of uh of reporting data and if you're looking for high strangeness uncanny or you know Vis Visionary you know experiences that involve entities and the on factor and stuff like that like how do we parse those experiences out from the from the reporting data yeah um go ahead I was going to say to add to Jeff's comment um about the book that you can't have science without a Baseline and so if you ignore the question of the reliability of testimony you're just ignoring that and you're automatically contaminating your own you know supposed scientific Endeavor yeah yeah there's like this line between people that actually want to like investigate you know cases and you know come to answers and and and the group of people that really don't even think they should be investigated that the experiencer is always right should never be questioned and you should take everything they say as absolute literal fact um and and like how dare you even like try and analyze or question the experience these people had and and that's you know that's one way to go that's like but it's not a scientific way to go if if you're trying to scientifically study this if you're trying to find answers you have to be able to look and analyze people's experiences and situations yeah and ultimately if you want to find some sort of weird new thing in nature uh then um the best way to rationally go about it is to use a null hypothesis and try to disprove whatever um fantastic uh hypothesis that that you're really interested in rather than trying to prove it and it also helps to know the the weird and unusual things that happen in nature that aren't unknown but are just rare and could be potential explanations because if you don't know uh if then that's that's again why and I mentioned in a previous episode why it's so important to study ifo cases identified flying saucers and I got a bit of a a bit of Kickback earlier uh this last week on one of the cases I posted which was another road sign um that basically they taking a photo of it as you drive by a road sign and it looks like a spinning almost kind of like a saucer and that recalls the famous uh sighting here in Oregon the relment pass uh photo and I got a lot of grief from some people for uh posting that like like what are you trying to do bring stigma and ridicule to the topic posting identified cases like this like why why are you posting this garbage why don't you just post it it's like well first of all I I post historical information not every case is going to turn out to be Fantastical or phenomenal uh but it still happened it's still part of the historical record and it still you know deserves to be recorded preserved and shared but also being said like we learn we tend to learn more from ifo cases than do from unidentified cases because really we can't learn a whole lot from an unidentified case because it's it's unidentified we haven't you know figured it out or learned anything from it it's from those ifo cases that we we do identify that we can kind of you know figure out baselines and kind of create a library in our mind of potential explanations that when when a sighting happens and we can say hey that shares a lot of similarities with a siding that turned out to be a rocket re-entry case or that shared a lot of similarities with a in that turned out to be a barium cloud and we can kind of go mine our our brains for uh potential rational explanations that we can then go test for and see if they are you know a legit explanation but we learn from them and so we need to study [Music] them okay well um on that note uh for our final story tonight there is no final story this author failed to write a final story tonight simply because she forgot to and then she paradoxically wrote a story about it 10 minutes before the show it was a very brief story as it ended with these words before we go if you enjoy this show we would like you to please consider subscribing to our Channel UFO Sunset please also hit the like button and hit the notification Bell icon if you'd like to get notified about upcoming videos and come and join our cozy and intimate live chat a great Plus for joining the live chat is that you can give us constructive feedback live on the air especially if we make any factual errors you can also join our Discord a temporary link to which will be found in the episode description as soon as I add it there after the show here at EOS our political and personal views are not the same and the work of each of us is independent work personal views or positions expressed in individual pieces are not necessarily those of EOS who is not a person and has no views or myself please be sure to check out our respective content I can be found at the Earth YouTube channel visit Luis kayano's website Ealy you apology is corrupt. comom and he'll give you five bucks not really and you can find Jeff knox's Daily Posts on history and the science of UFOs on Twitter or Facebook Jeff Knox spends all of his time studying UFOs and he makes almost no money off of it please consider please please consider visiting his patreon page and becoming his Patron thank you Jeff thank you L thank you xrx thank you drew Williamson thank you Steve long thank you Timothy brigam thank you to all of our lovely be lovely viewers um and in the words of the dis the truth is out there but so are [Music] lies I swear I don't know [Music] why the the words of the disc said that's spaceman's business not man business Spaceman [Music] business I'm sorry I don't know why this is happening all right good night everybody [Music] [Applause] [Music]