S1:E16 - UFOs, Energy, and the Future of Sustainability

Transcript

Yeah. Well, this week's topic is uh what could UFO disclosure do for sustainability? And then I'm saying UFO in the broad sense of the term, basically strange things in the sky, unidentified flying objects, or the modern term UAP, unidentified anomalous phenomenon. Um, >> and and I know like just to qualify this up front, um, I know this there's still a lot of stigma around this topic and you know, I don't know who who you are as a listener, but you could be in one's, you know, you could you could be super interested or you could be like, "Oh my god, this is a crazy topic. I don't want to listen to But actually, I think I'd say from both perspectives, from if you're super into it, then I think there's a lot of really interesting conversation to be had in terms of what how could it help shape our thinking around sustainability. And but if you're like, "Oh, no, this is nonsense." It's still interesting just as a thought experiment.

And so that's what I'd sort of say up front just for, you know, depending on where people land on this topic at the beginning. I think by the end people might be like, "Oh, yeah, that was interesting." That there's different ways we could think about the sustainability. >> And for those of you who listening who are like, "Oh, this is nonsense." I mean, spend 5 minutes googling. I mean, honestly, these days, [laughter] there's like so much so much so much out there. We're not we're really I don't I don't think we're being really out there at all if we're seriously having conversations about UAPs because there are very serious conversations happening about UAPs at public disclosures.

um uh you know government levels there's been public uh the US what called what they call Congress congress lots of >> yeah there've been lots of lots of stuff right now and this is stuff coming from very reputable and very you know very good sources >> yeah exactly and that's the reason we're talking about it is because we are at this time when you've got people in senior positions in government going under oath talking about this stuff as well as you know on camera in interviews um revealing >> is it is Is it a scop? >> Well, it may be. I genuinely, you know, haven't ruled that out. Um, like I said to you in my voice note, I >> don't know. Like, there's a lot of interesting stuff around this topic. I've got I've got views on it, but one of my views is that I don't know.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, could well be a scop. And I think it's probably a bit of a mix. I think I think there's probably it's probably a mixed bag of things where there's there's like scops, especially US government scops, um tend to be a mixture of truth and fiction >> and it's the it's one of the ways that they create confusion and they basically can kind of protect themselves against leaks because the the stuff that is true is so mixed up with absolute nonsense that when people then find out like, oh, but like the US government did people don't believe it because they associate that thing already with something that they also think is nonsense.

So, >> it's kind of a very very good uh strategy for kind of keeping things not just secret but even if they leak out like kind of keeping them out of like serious discussion. is the reason why there isn't as much effort put into sustainability by multiple governments around the world and sustainability in in the broadest concept because they know aliens are coming and they're like and they're like listen guys that isn't your problem we we need to sort some we need to sort some other stuff out >> I mean I hadn't thought about that as a perspective But I mean, here we go. We're only a couple of minutes in and already this is interesting, right? Because [laughter] >> because I mean, last was it two episodes ago, we were talking about end times and you know, like whether there's reasons. >> Are these the end times? Yeah. >> Yeah.

Are these the end times? And and you know, maybe end times doesn't literally mean end times, but it just means some sort of great like transition or big shift in society. And >> there is a load of stuff around particularly um 2026, 2027. um lots of people, you know, who are in official positions, you know, in the intelligence communities and um in connected with the UAP phenomenon mo mostly giving the date 2027 as like there's going to be an event. Um but it's never defined what it is. It's very very mysterious.

Um Jeremy Corbel who's one of the kind of ma main sort of journalists that's been focused on this issue for a long long time. Uh oh I I I think he seems like a decent guy. I mean you can never tell but I think I broadly think he's trustworthy. >> It's my gut feeling. >> He put out a video about a year ago saying that like he's seen documents that people you know he gets shown things that he's not allowed to publish by sources.

>> Yeah. and he said he's seen documents that show that this date of 2027 goes all the way back like decades and it's a very specific year and there's a bunch of other people talk about it and he said but the interesting thing was he said that 2027 is the date when we are going to be where we're all going to be told a big lie >> we're going to be told a big lie >> a big lie yeah there's going to be something that they tell us is real and it's going to be a big lie and I'm like hm Oh, that's interesting. It might we have to wait till 2027 to find out whether there's a big lie presented, but but it will be a lie. >> Well, that was that was he was saying he might be wrong, but this is like what he's been told and kind of a line >> the planning the documents he's seen are the planning for the disclosure of a lie, which which we think is probably going to be partially true. So, some of truth to it, right? So, some something's going to happen, but they're going to lie about what actually happened.

>> That would be my hunch. My hunch would be that there's something there is something real that happens and it's kind of spun in a way that is um like fits the agenda of of you know powerful people, powerful organizations. Um but it is very very mysterious. Um, so I I don't want to say what this event would be. Um, cuz I don't know.

And he even he doesn't say and these other people I've seen mentioning it, just dropping it in conversations, you know, they never say what the thing is. Um, they just say like, you know, 2027 is like the date that keeps being talked about. >> So, you get more followers if you don't actually uh, you know, reveal that. You leave the mystery. Follow me.

Follow me for information about the 2020. Yeah. There's like the year 2000. >> Oh yeah. Well, there's a well there's the quantum apocalypse which I I was researching the day as well which is kind of wild.

>> Yeah. Well, >> this question around like is there a connection between quantum computing, artificial intelligence, um UFOs, um maybe other weird things that are happening around this time um of history. And you know it's quite possible that with you know especially with sort of quantum uh technology that's all sorts of not just computing but like you know all sorts of weird things that humans are doing. Um who knows like what effect that is having in some like other kind of realms of reality. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> It does ripping apart other universes and just to do a a calculation about >> Yeah. financial probability, you know, it's just like it's just you destroyed our entire universe. [laughter] >> Exactly. Exactly.

Um, so but also the thing you said like you know do they do people in like high levels of power know there's something coming and that's why they're just not bothered about solving some of the problems cuz they're like actually well well sustainability I think has lost its tim >> as a end of times uh tool. So, for a while it had this kind of like this is the end of times and and we all know how wrong that messaging was, right? But it had like an end of times thing and everything you just described is a is an end of times thing. Um, which are kind of useful tools to I mean useful tools as as you know organi as governments to keep and maintain and control power. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Yeah, you need something to keep people afraid. And um >> and that if you keep saying the same thing for long enough, then I mean some things you keep saying them for long enough, people believe them, but if you keep trying to make people afraid of like a boogeyman that never quite turns up. Um and I'm not saying >> you have to you have to flip to a different boogeyman. >> Yeah. Exactly.

And that's and I'm not saying that context of saying that like environmental problems aren't real. I'm more just saying in terms of like the apocalyptic like predictions that were given like some of those dates have already passed >> and some of the things that like people were saying decades ago. Um, >> and it's not that bad things haven't happened. there being wildfires and you know big storms and so on. M >> um >> oh I I would say no but I I would definitely say that what you and me and I would argue kind of most of the people who are more uh involved deeply in this space would think of a sustainability is a very different type of problem than a sector of you know there's there seems to be two two camps we we're exploring like this broader aspect for sustainability.

Now it's more about and we mentioned about unity, but I think there's >> like we we we we count it as like just human like suffering in in general rather than just this like abstract kind of like couple of concepts. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And so to me when I think of sustainability I almost like think in my mind it's translated to like listen everybody here is we're all we're all it's for us. We're trying to make our lives better and the lives better for everybody.

And then um that's not what other organizations think of when they think of sustainability. They do think about listen there's this moment coming and things are going to go really bad. I don't know. I think there's this I don't I haven't quite figured out but there seems to be two very ours is a bit more fluffy like [laughter] I don't know more azy more azy more azy and more fluffy. >> Yeah.

Yeah. No definitely this other Yeah. >> Yeah. I think because our ours is much more rooted on like on the on the the general principle of as you said like reducing suffering and giving everybody the opportunity to live a good life in whatever way that means um rather than like focusing on like a specific threat. So it's like you you've got >> threat um threat avoidance, threat mitigation is I think kind of what mainstream sustainability has become >> rather than I think ours is a more broader kind of looking for >> the opportunity to evolve society in a good way.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When we want to move us towards something and they're trying to move away from something. I don't know.

I don't know if that's the way of putting it. I think that's a good way. It's also but also what the the what we're describing there is there's no money in it. We're not describing like billion dollars, trillion dollar industries. We're describing like very much the opposite and it's not linked to a lot of things.

I don't know. I forgot I've kind of put you off. I've even forgotten what you were just talking about. Well, [laughter] I mean your your point was just to kick us off about, you know, are elite people uh you know who are running corporations or just you know have a lot of political power or economic power? Are they just focused on other things because they know stuff about like what's really going on behind the scenes in terms of the trajectory of humanity that means that their priorities are different from the rest of us? And um and so while we're focused on when I say we, I'm just broadly, you know, I'm using that other kind of >> um collective sustainability community identity. Um like are we focused on things like climate change, but missing some other things that >> Yeah.

>> that that those people know about and they're just kind of keeping quiet because somehow for whatever reason it doesn't suit their agenda to put it on our agenda. M >> um and you know you you do have all these things like you've got for years Elon Musk has been talking about like we need to become an interplanetary species and you know he's building space rockets rockets as well. >> Bezos >> cuz Bezos knows something you know I don't know. >> Yeah we talked a couple of episodes ago about like you know billionaires with bunkers and this sort of thing. So there's like weird stuff going on and that might all just be cuz they're like boys with toys and they, you know, want to get a space and they're rich, so you know, why not? But I I can't help but think that there that there is something going on.

The fact that you have these like hearings, even if it's a scop, the question in my mind is if you've got official government hearings happening talking about these things and very credible government officials, when I say very credible, I mean in the like mainstream public view, very credible public officials talking about these things on camera. I I sort of feel like well if it is a scop we still have to ask why are they bothering like why are they doing the scop what is the scop for because no one's asking like the mainstream public aren't asking them like oh tell us about the UFOs like >> it's actually kind of the opposite where until really really recently if you were somebody in a like official position particularly in politics but even just generally in society like even now like I'm a bit self-conscious talking about this on a you know small scale a podcast. >> We are we are we have delved into the uh >> into the uh council territory. >> Yeah. So, so the question is like why are they going on record? Why are they holding congressional hearings when this is not a popular thing to be doing? You're not going to win votes doing this.

You're not going to win credibility like on the surface there's not like money to be made in an obvious way. There may be money to be made but not in an obvious way. Um, so if it is a site, which it may well be, um, it still raises the question of like, well, there's something weird going on here, something super weird, like that they're they're putting this on the agenda. Um, and then weirdly like you've got you've got all this going on with all these people officially talking about this stuff and then the mainstream media like barely touches it. So there there's like this strange kind of juxosition of like we've got sort of official people >> like sort of bringing stuff out into the open and then at the same time it's also sort of being sort of quietly ignored >> by mainstream media as well.

So there's a whole dynamic that um to me sort of says there's something to see here. And and I think this is a sort of a a general theme in life. I think for me is like look like look at look at the gaps like we're it's like it's like magic. It's like um it's what's what's the phrase they use for magic where it's um like slight of hand. You know, you're you you capture somebody's attention >> on a specific thing in but the magic's happening on this island.

Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. Not to divert them from what's happening in space. >> Misdirection.

>> Misdirection. That's it. Yeah. And um and I think that's true in a lot of things. And and I think this is one of those weird sort of things that people aren't looking at.

And you've got like the sustainability community is worried about existential threats and the future of humanity. And it's like, okay, well then, like, here's a big gap. [laughter] Like, we're being pointed at like all this stuff over here, which is like pollution and climate change. Like, okay, fine. That doesn't mean that stuff's not significant, >> but there's this big gap of like there is something going on here, and we're not looking at it.

I mean, if you want to go down that route, I I don't think I think the sustainability community is it's a broad catchal term and I think it's just a community of people who care about very specific things. Maybe not for rational reasons as well. Maybe just because the media and the the people they hang around with have said this is important or they believe this is important. Mhm. >> So like we've had the question before like when you said that I was like well they also don't call out wars >> genocides.

Yeah. You also so like if they're not going to call a war on a genocide they're not going to call out potential alien alien alien invasions. So like there's something I don't I don't I don't think we should have the expectations on like the sustainab I don't think this conversation could be a conversation around why isn't the sustainability community engaging with this topic because there's this by definition the sustainability community is a community who engages on a very specific topic >> which is not the whole of sustainability >> which is not the whole of sustainability. Um, >> yeah, >> maybe we should call about like like but I think to to speak to your point is like why aren't well it's a more vagger threat >> than even sustainability and and okay let's dive into that. Let's actually let's honestly dive into the question why isn't the sustainability community face looking at that you answered it I think to to a point already which is like well the reason people pay attention to sustainability is because it's in the news.

>> Yeah. Yeah. because it's there there's a lot of information and material and and and some of it is accurate and good and representative. Some of it is just there to create anger and anxiety and clicks, but it it drives like it's it's in front of your faces. It's in mainstream media.

Um and ever ever more so I remember like like 6 years ago I remember this kind of moment where it kind of did go far more into the mainstream and there was a lot more comment and there's a lot more articles and publications and it became much more mainstream I would say sustainability like very fairly recently I would say um which kind of grew the community of of people um that hasn't happened with any of this UFO stuff. But maybe there's the similarity there is like look two five 1985 there were people talking about sustainability and this stuff for ages and ages and ages. It was very obvious. There's lots of stats lots of like it wasn't like vague stuff. It was like look look at all this evidence that is clearly there >> and we all ignored it as a society you know on on mass in general like we ignored it and now we're starting to pay attention to it.

>> I think that's fair. >> Not enough. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean when we started our business in 2007, um it still was quite fringe in terms of like talking about it in the business world and people thought we're a bit strange talking about like sustainable branding and marketing and design and stuff like this and and just it was like a thing nobody it just didn't make sense to people. It's like that's not a thing. And now it is a thing and it's sort of relatively it's not it's still not the norm but it is a part of the mainstream I'd say. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. >> So yeah, I think you're right. I think you s we're on this sort of trajectory and I think if you track it back the I mean if you track it back the UP thing goes back thousands of years right to like Indian vibr sustainability doesn't sustainability doesn't so yeah >> yeah um but in terms of like the modern phenomenon the the UFO thing it really kicks off in like you know after the second world war with Roswell and um which obviously was not obviously but you know it's it's time-wise and locationwise, very closely related to like the first nuclear test. And um and then and then it sort of but it still is like this fringe slightly crackpot thing for most of like you know the best part of a century until well let's say 3/4 of a century until you get to like about 10 years ago and then there's like this flip that happens where >> um two things happen.

One is that NASA and some, you know, respected scientists start doing a complete 180 on the narrative that like there is no life out there in the universe. Basically, all of the 20th century was like, "No, no, we're the only people here. There is nothing out there. There's like there's no signs of life. It's impossible." Or just like so unlikely.

And then almost like out of nowhere around 10 years ago, 10 12 years ago, there's this flip where you start getting this series of press conferences from NASA and other scientists saying like, "Oh yeah, like we think we found some planets that might have some life and we think that oh like maybe there was like water on like this, you know, on Jupiter and you know all these sorts of things like they and they start talking about the idea that there's like more and more life out there in the universe until within like a decade we're now at a point where people like oh yeah there's like there's like hundreds of billions of >> there's like hundreds of billions of that might be able to have intelligent life. And that's a very quick turnaround on like human perspective of the universe. >> Um, and in that same 10 years, >> you've had like basically the beginnings of this kind of disclosure thing with congressional hearings and so on that um sort of goes back um sort of seven eight years or something. So, so those two things sort of like sit in parallel and and um and so you may be right that like we're just at the beginning of like you know sustainability was sort of becoming more mainstream. Maybe this is just at the beginning of that process but but I wonder >> 20 2027 >> 2027 is like they're going to hit the big green button and be like >> yeah [laughter] >> okay it's mainstream now it's on the BBC.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But like if it's be gone. No, >> I I was I was just going to say I think the question is um >> like if we said that okay >> this phenomenon is real.

We don't know exactly what this phenomenon is but there is a phenomenon and it seems to have certain characteristics which people on record have said that it does you know craft that basically um can go between mediums space atmosphere and sea like seamlessly they um can evade radar they can accelerate instantaneously they can travel at speeds that like no craft that we know of I'm going to caveat that no crowd that we know of >> could travel at and um they have all these properties that basically would mean that in order to >> in order to do what they do even if like you said oh it's the Russians it's the Chinese like whatever right maybe it might be but even if that was the case the amount of energy required with our known physics to build a not that we know how to build a craft like that but like the amount of energy required is so enormous >> that it's it's sort of like almost incomprehensible and to do it without like like a heat signature that you could like track with. >> Oh, it's it's I would I would argue it's definitely a technology that is not even remotely something that we are aware of until you know whether or >> I'd even argue like maybe maybe the the energy isn't even a problem to them because they figured something else out. So yeah, I I was in I was in your is your argument being that that that's why there's evidence that's why that's the evidence that supports that this isn't earthly technology is because of the amount of energy it would take. >> Well, I guess my argument is that you either way it sort of doesn't matter because we're all talking we're all like mainstream society like we're all talking about like what we need to do is we need to build more wind turbines, >> right? [laughter] >> There seems to be this this energy source that is like Yeah. >> Yeah.

That's like the elephant in the invisible flying elephant in the room is that there seems to be another source of energy that is like so far ahead of like what we're talking about and yet we're not talking about it. And like in the the film that came out recently, Age of Disclosure, um which I think is the most credible film on this topic, and that's I I'd also think that ironically it's part of the disclosure program. It's part of the scope. >> Yeah, >> we'll [clears throat] see. We'll time will tell on that.

But you know you've got you got scientists in there who are who are saying that like their calculations these are government you know people work on these programs um in the government um saying that their calculations say that like for these craft to do what they're observed doing like one craft would have to have like multiple times the entire energy output of the entire United States and you can't detect there's no heat signature so and they and they said that they've only got two hypotheses of how this could be done based on like and they could be infinite ways. But the only two hypotheses they've got are zero point energy which is basically pulling energy out of the um out of the the ether effectively cuz all of the universe is is full of like vast vast oceans of energy. Um which most scientists say is not possible but you know well what if it is? you would only need a tiny tiny fraction of it and you'd have like more energy than we're currently producing as a planet. Um, and then the other theory they came up with is even wilder than that which was quantum entanglement being used for like pulling energy from other sources in other parts of the universe. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

>> And it's like, okay, well, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm way way underqualified [laughter] to judge that. [gasps] But, um, but still, it's sort of like, well, this is these are phenomenon being observed on Earth. These are not NASA missions going out to like the edge of the galaxy and then saying, oh, we've observed some weird phenomenon like out there.

It's like, no, this is stuff going on here. Like for all the talk of wind turbines and solar panels like >> I feel like there should be a serious discussion around like if these craft ex craft exist >> what is powering them. You never watched that. You don't you don't you don't you don't strike me as a treky? I don't think >> I'm not really. >> Okay.

So, you're not you're not aware of the prime directive then. Um which I actually can't quote now that I think about it. I can't remember what it is. It's it's this law in Star Trek which is um you don't interfere that I think the planet you don't interfere with planets un with developing planets unless the planet has unless you can unless you can detect a warp signature. So the warp signature is like the right we can now come chat to you.

You're now you're now reached a level of evolution as a planet so that we we're now going to have interplanetary conversations. >> Okay. And it's kind of a really it's like a really and there's like there's a whole like many many many many episodes over like all the seasons and all the time of like where they kind of like had to like break the prime directive because the planet was going to they're going to do something or there's a disease or something and the and the and the captains like just his his ethics and his morals just wouldn't allow him to kind of take a step back and like >> they get they dress up as like weird they try and like blend into humans and like the Vulcan is always the problem cuz he's ears. So they have to like they have to try they dive in and then they try and like save and then and then they kind of like accidentally reveal themselves to a few other people on the planet who they who promise to like never tell anybody else and they go back >> and I was like well that obviously is is is something here as well. It's like so >> it does sound very on point cuz you've got this serious phenomenon that does seem to you know there's people there's things documented going back thousands of years.

Um but it really takes a big increase like I said after the second world war with the invention of of the nuclear bomb and the most like prominent place where you find uh UFO sightings um >> is nuclear sites, nuclear weapons storage like you nuclear uh like warheads out on on battleships, nuclear missile, you know, ballistic missiles being tested. Um, even nuclear power stations, there's like something and it could be energetic, you know, it could be like that there's just some weird phenomenon that we don't understand that's being created by the >> well nuclear. >> I was I was listening to I forgot the name uh an independent researcher on the Danny Jones podcast. Did you watch that one recently? I forgot his name. >> Well, there's lots on the nuclear scientist.

>> Yeah, I know. He has he has a lot of very low quality. >> Yeah. No, I haven't. I haven't.

>> Um he was a nuclear scientist. Um but more and he was talking about how um if we're talking about what is the technology that we're you know if there are certain nuclear so he's somewhere ancient his his very deep uh investigation areas in kind of like ancient Egypt. Um, and he actually did a really he actually did he's quite he did quite a good he's got a very scientific method. Like for instance, you know the the vases that we've been like talking about these incredibly >> perfectly. He did like a very and I wouldn't say his argument is like full-blown.

He's like, "Look, I've done some research. Here's my findings." And he did the research by by examining kind of many of them. He came up with like a a metric to determine how um how accurate they are. Then he took some modern vases how and he used the same metric with a machine drill and he basically pointed out his argument is like look like actually the vast majority of ancient Egyptian vasees were just obviously handmade and had the imperfections of handmade. There's a few examples where they were perfect and they're just about the same as um as modern machinemade ones.

And his conclusion was they're they're fake and forgeries cuz apparently like for hundreds and thousands of years for you know forged Egyptian artifacts was like a very lucrative market. The reason I'm saying that is because that kind of gave me some credibility for what he was other what other things he was saying because he was actually trying to explore this thing from a very scientific method. Um and he believes that the new nuclear science was known to the ancients in a way that are not known to us. And by nuclear science he means like literally like the science of understanding how uh atoms you know and like nuclear physics that the the the mechan it's not just it's not just about creating explosions. It's about kind of understanding how to manipulate matter at that level.

Yes. And that and that most of what and how most of the stuff was built was like you could actually um if you understood how to manipulate granite on a nuclear level, it could kind of like melt and form and be malleable and that's how you >> and so like you just mentioned like there is so there and the zero point energy is kind of like the the beyond below like nuclear. So there is like something there about kind of understanding how like this technology like maybe nuclear is like oh have they have they figured it out yet? >> Yeah. Let's let's go check it out. Let's check it check out cuz nuclear I suppose the other observation there is that nuclear physics is not just about blowing up or making a lot of energy.

It's potentially a very powerful science that we haven't all like explored to the level that we that we could and has many other applications in in this world. Um >> yeah, >> doesn't explain flying saucers though. >> No, no, but no, but I know what you mean. Like you've got nuclear medicine and so on. And um >> yeah, and in um there's a great book called The Hunt for Zero Point by a guy called Nick Cook who used to be a um >> used to be a defense uh journalist >> and um and and interestingly he I mean he he goes really really deep.

He spent like 10 years like traveling around the world researching it. But one of the strange things related to that that he comes across is that this whole kind of weird history of like 0 point energy research isn't just about producing energy. There's like also stuff around transmutation of materials. >> Um >> and and basically >> if you know if you got enough energy and you know how to control it then you can manipulate matter on a like an atomic scale. And >> yeah, >> and and it's like, you know, it's sort of you you hear from sort of the ancient world the idea of alchemy and then turning >> east metals into gold and so on.

And and obviously we're always told, oh, that's ridiculous. It's impossible. It's like, well, it's impossible in a conventional sense, but it's not actually like for >> it's not actually impossible >> in physics. It's just it's just very very difficult to do. Um but if you have a source of energy and a way of controlling it that is sort of completely on a different level then all sorts of opportunities open up.

And so um it's not it's you know we're talking often you know in the sustainability world about not just climate change but like cleaning up pollution and and things like this and it's like well and you know how do we get rid of our waste and you know all these sorts of problems we have and restoring the natural environment. And it's like, well, actually, if you could harness a form of energy that could manipulate matter >> in a like a fundamental way and and you're using it in a creative sense, not a destructive sense. So, you're not blowing stuff up like we like all of our energy technologies >> until other than other than renewables, but >> yeah, all of our non-renewable um energy technologies are basically blowing stuff up. You burn it. All the nuclear industry started from like the the Manhattan project and you know all of that.

Yeah. >> Blowing up Japan. Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly.

Um but if you if you had some sort of technology that was like fundamentally the reverse of that >> um that could like harness an energy in the universe that like pulls things together >> and >> and it and you know it opens up the questions around that we've talked about before around like how >> how does anything organized in the universe exist? like how do we have planets with life and like you know how do we exist like with these bodies that have been put together >> there must be some sort of force that is creative um and if we could we if we could you know flip our way we think about energy that it's actually about pushing things together rather than [laughter] >> rather than blowing them apart >> well creative just creative >> just creative >> creative rather than destructive yeah the divine feminine rather than the the divine masculine Well, I was going to because I remember because the last episode I I kind of gave you the the half thesis and I realized afterwards I forgot to give you a one point of my half thesis which was like what's the point in everything? I don't really know but it seems to be related to energy like plants organize themselves in a way that the most efficient way of taking energy that they have access to and turning it into something. I don't know what the thing is but like is it is it energy? Um, Steve Keenan, like the the econ we pull so many different things into our podcast. Steve Keenan, the uh the hetradox economist, um, has a thesis about how, you know, governments and countries and like the we shouldn't have we shouldn't measure ourselves through GDP. It just seems very arbitrary and doesn't really tell you anything. Whereas if you actually look at how the world works and why there's certain wars that happen, why there's certain politic that happen, it's all always about energy.

It's always about energy and that really we should have a metric for measuring the su the a metric for measuring countries should be based upon how much energy they have or they take and how efficiently they convert that energy to some sort maybe dollars some sort of useful like end product cuz you know if it kind of makes sense that each country is like the amount of energy you've got is proportional to everything to proportional to um the welfare of your people is proportional to how well you can defend yourselves is proportional to what you can manufacture is proportional to everything. So energy seems to be this fundamental aspect of all of our lives. We you've spoken about we've spoken about how like I mean access to energy has has transformed more for the lifestyle of people on this planet than anything else. One second. Oh.

Um so access to energy has kind of like really transformed uh I'm going to make a little note so I cut that out. Should I cut it out? >> Yeah. 51 minutes. >> 51 minutes. Let's cut it out.

Um I forgot what I'm saying. Oh yeah. Access to energy. >> Access to energy is um it's key to everything. It's key to everything that we've been talking about.

When we talk about sustainability, what have we been talk? You'd mentioned wind farms. What have we been talking about? We've been talking about fossil fuel production. I remember Michael Shelonburgger in his Apocalypse Never book, which I was told never to read. And then I read it and I was like, "Oh my god, this actually makes a lot of sense." Which is like, look, all we needed is nuclear power. If we just enabled nuclear, if we just let let it go on so many fronts, it would just solve so many of the sustainability problems we have right now.

It would raise the light the the the the livelihoods of so many poor people around the world. It's just like the most unbelievable technology that we're kind of restricting. And many people in the sustainability movement have been active in restricting nuclear roll out >> for a variety of reasons. >> Now you're mentioning like like like there seems to be evidence that you know just from just from I never thought about it from that perspective but like the the fact that there are these uh aerial it's not the fact that there are these weird aliens. It's the fact that my god how are they how are they energizing how are they getting the energy for this thing? And if that energy exists, then it would change our lives forever.

Makes me think, you know, back to the big lie, like it's almost like I if if we're thinking about who controls the levers of power, I think and and and I think if we understand that actually access to energy is the maj currency of the world is energy, not dollars, energy. >> It is. Yeah. >> Um >> it would almost be a threat to them, wouldn't it? If >> Yeah. >> Like 0.8 is a threat.

>> Well, >> 0.8 is a threat to a lot of if they can't control it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I actually looked this up cuz >> to to take a step back, like there was tons of um there was tons of research into like anti-gravity technology back in like the 1940s and 50s. And somehow, and I don't quite understand the physics of how these are linked, but somehow it seems that the technology and zero point energy in terms of like research is is connected and it goes it goes super dark like in the mid-50s after you've had all these like, you know, aerospace companies and so on boasting about their research and how they're on the verge of a breakthrough and then it goes completely dark and then they deny that they ever looked into it.

Uh, and and this is really interesting because this is the same pattern you had with nuclear where there was loads of like excitement about nuclear research and then it went dark when they actually realized like we're on to something. Um, the same was true with stealth research, stealth, you know, like stealth bomber kind of technology. >> Um, so it's a pattern that you can see and and and there's all sorts of theories around why might this go dark. Um but for me one of the most compelling is the money aspect because >> the oil industry in like last year the oil industry was 8 trillion >> and that's and we think like oh the oil industry like big bad oil industry they they they don't >> they don't want this but >> so they're going to like hush hush any kind of like new like major advances like oh they'll let you have a few solar panels but well they'll they'll push back against that but like there's a limit how hard they'll push But if there was something fundamental, they' push back against it. But then if you actually think about this, like if somebody had figured out whether it was 80 years ago or yesterday or or 80 years from now, if somebody figured out like, you know what, we've actually cracked this zero point energy thing, we can do this.

We could produce abundant energy for the whole world. Like everybody in Africa, we can lift them out of poverty. And um not only the whole of the global fossil fuel industry would literally go out of business, but so would the whole of the renewable energy industry, right? >> So, [laughter] >> so, so it's like this crazy kind of thing where you've got >> if you actually look at it as like an entire energy industry rather than like just fossil fuels >> and then you look at this as like it's not just one year, this is like forever. you're talking like hundreds of trillions of dollars of business is on the line. That that is the sort of thing that people will go to extreme lengths to, you know, stop that happening.

It's not, you know, it's not like, you know, a few million quid. It's it's sort of amounts of money that are un unimaginable. I was just I was just doing because I remembered it and on on Apple TV there's one of my favorite shows is um for all mankind and it's based off a of a book which is uh what if like what what if what if the Soviets won the Spain space race like what would have happened changed and I I won't go into the topic but there's there's one character in it and and what he he basically discovers fusion energy >> and the cuz cuz the show lasts like decades. It's like each season is like a decade and it's kind of lasted a long time. People have gray hairs now.

And one of the things that happened once he invented nuclear energy is fusion energy is like worldwide protests. You know, politicians going this is a disaster for our economy and my constituents. No one's got a job anymore. And people are like um so angry at the fact but but he's but through the development of fusion energy the world just like came so much better and you know they were able to do so many other things. So you're right like this development of this kind of like you know it is I'd say given given every pretty much every war you can look at the last like 50 60 years was around energy >> ignoring the fact that energy and threats to energy and uh threats to the change of energy control >> has driven wars and millions of people have died.

um it it really doesn't go out. It really really I don't think it's then like a hard push to think that there's actually a lot of vested interest in in in controlling that just not even not not even in it's it's it's better >> it's not even in the desire to control zero point energy. It's it's in the desire to make sure that that doesn't exist. >> That's what I mean. Exactly.

>> So that I doesn't matter what it is. it doesn't matter if it's zero point energy or something else. And I've I've heard people talking about fusion in the same way. Um, and one of the things that's interesting that again you kind of you can see a pattern when you look into the UFO phenomenon that then you can then see in other places is this idea that there's actually like there's two science worlds and we're told there's only one. We're told that science happens in academia and a bit of it happens a bit there's a bit like in corporate corporations in their labs and so on and that's fine.

>> Um but basically it's like that's what we consider science. It's like >> so corporate labs and academia >> and what we're not told about is what goes on in like private research in basically in like government and military contractors. Um, and the UFO phenomenon is interesting because you've got now people on record saying that yes, there are defense contractors who have craft, recovered craft, whatever these craft are, and they've been working for a long time on reverse engineering projects, >> you know, trying to reverse engineer technology. >> And you know, whether that's true, whether it's successful, the point is that >> you've got two worlds of science. And and what I've heard some scientists who are like concerned about this saying is that when certain things in academia look like they're getting to a point where the powers that be don't want this to like become a thing, >> it all goes under, you know, a bit like I was just saying about, you know, stealth and and so on.

>> It all goes underground, but it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't stop. >> It just goes it just goes dark. And and I've heard people saying about fusion that actually like it's kind of a bit of a wild goose chase that all the stuff that might actually work [laughter] is [gasps] is basically buried or it's like happening somewhere else. Um and that's why this joke like oh fusion is always like oh yeah we're like 20 years away from fusion and it's like >> yeah but like you said that 20 years ago and >> yeah a lot of things people say that yeah but like I can imagine like and knowing how academia works and and and saying that actually I I think academic method is like or the scientific method I should say not the academic method is is like probably one of the truest and a really honorable way to live like living this kind of scientific method. that's kind of you know um develop the academ academia I think that if you really wanted to if if you gave me like $100 million and said you need to develop a technology I wouldn't give it to academia I would get a private >> right >> private cuz the academics will be like we need to publish some papers because actually that's that's really what we're all about is it's academic world is all focused on prestige and there's this whole like ecosystem there and it's not really about you know there's a lot of signs it doesn't get done because it's not it doesn't fit into that mechanism whereas if you just open it's a a private thing and you said listen you just got to do it and you're going to get measured on this one thing which is like the delivery of this thing I think that money would go way further from potentially way further from that in that direction um yeah I don't know if that's what you want to do so yeah but but but then but then I don't know What would it be? I mean, I just I hear about this stuff.

Like I hear about Yes. apparently like Loheed Martin for one example has recovered recovered like I just I just imagine what it's like being like the CEO of Loheed Martin and you're trying to sell people this one thing but you also know that alien craft exists and like like cogn like if you're Elon Musk let's say Elon Musk knows about this stuff like fundamentally why the f is he building rockets like what's you But how could how? >> I know. It would be so demotivating, wouldn't it? >> Yeah. Can >> I just Can I just use that, please? It would be save me so much time if I could just use that anti-gravity technology. Do you know how much effort I've had to put into getting these rockets to go up and down? Like I That's what makes me feel like I feel like Elon would go like, do you know what? F you.

Like why aren't there the thing that makes me Okay, let let me let me be cautious about the whole thing because this would require a level of secrecy that is unreal. This would require Elon Musk. This would require Trump keeping it quiet. You're saying about the levels of secrecy being like unimaginable. And um so Nick Cook in in in the hunt for zero point he he talks about this and actually spends a lot of time um digging into a big part of like his research takes him into looking at like Nazi technology or or like Nazi R&D.

And um and one of the things that comes out of that is basically his theory that um the Nazis like had developed a system of like a a system of secrecy in of how how you basically stop a secret coming out. You through like different methods of compartmentalization and culture and so on. uh was so so deep that like it was sort of beyond anything that like western countries could do in terms of like their sort of you know state secrets and so on and um and so after the second world war one of the things you've got is you've got um you got project paperclipip which I think was originally called project overcast and it's basically was the the US government's program of basically going recruiting all the really valuable Nazis get letting them off the hook um and and getting them working on things that are valuable to America and and there were like several thousand as far as I understand. The most prominent of which is probably Veron Brawn >> who basically was like effectively the founder like the godfather of NASA um like the chief engineer on the V2 rocket um people and they don't make a big thing of that. They don't they don't make a big thing of like, oh yeah, NASA was like built off the back of like the Nazis V2 rocket program.

>> Um >> which which had which which used a lot of uh um Jewish uh effectively slave labor. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah.

Um and so so Nick Cook has this basically his hypothesis is that there was this thing called Dlocker which was like a project into some sort of like anti-gravity technology possibly zero point energy technology era >> in the Nazi era possibly time travel which is like that and he's he's basing that off the fact that they called it delocker which means the clock um and some people have speculated that it was some sort of time warping machine um >> but That's interesting because even in the age of disclosure, like they talk about like, well, if we were going to do if you were going to create a craft that did this, what you would do is you you basically create a a space-time warp bubble, >> which is effectively some form of time travel. Um, anyway, the point is that he's he basically says that he thinks that when the Americans recruited all these Nazis to come and work in their like very special programs to benefit America, they didn't just import the technology, they imported the culture. And a big part of that culture was like the basically the deep black research >> program >> formula of like how do you bury stuff so so deep that like nobody nobody can know it's there even the president >> like so you know you say about like how how do Trump keep his mouth shut? It's like well you know he might not have to because you know he [laughter] he won't even be told. Well, then that that I mean I I would that that I was thinking about it just now, but I was thinking about [laughter] like whoa like that and I'm not saying I I believe this. I was just thinking through like what would be the only mechanism that I think would work in this situation.

And I think um cuz I I I would agree. I I think that the whatever the mechanism is, I think you could create a system where most people who are involved in it and in an everyday activity could either be oblivious to it or you can even come up with mechanisms where they they knew about it but they were just under so much pressure that they wouldn't do it. What I'm interested in is more that that that Trump kind of billionaire class >> for whom a lot of those like what what even threats could you give them which would make them think I mean you've got like $400 billion. I mean there's not much in this world that you could you know there's an army you probably couldn't defend against an army. So, the only thing that seems to make sense to me is that um um it and I also don't think I don't I think what you just described it's not a government.

It's it's it's a separate entity to a governmental >> organization. I mean, it's basically outside of the democratic system. >> Yeah. And it would like it would live. It doesn't matter like if if I think Trump is the most interesting character cuz I think he would say it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Or he would hint he would just be like, "Oh, this will get me some twe some likes." He would I don't think he would be >> he would say or I think there's enough billionaires who theoretically like the the CEOs who you know they might tell their wives who tell there'd be enough kind of like there's enough kind of people at that level. So it has to be something which even keeps them in line. >> Yeah.

She even keeps them out >> or it just keeps them out >> or just keeps So yeah, I would agree I would agree with your your statement that that that's one angle of this which is they don't know. So it's like a separate thing. I think though they're well off enough that if we're talking about it, they're probably talking about it as well. They probably have enough resources to actually like figure some of this stuff out better than you and me can figure it out. >> Yeah, I'm sure.

And I have no doubt that they know a lot more than we know. Um but they might not really really know like the deep stuff. That might be something deep inside. >> They're not saying it, mate. I think I think this this thing only works I think the whole argument only works if there is actual pressure applied to keep quiet to a lot of people.

There has to be something where there's pressure applied. >> Yeah. But the whole history littered with people who mysteriously died. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

[laughter] And I think that's probably the greatest pressure of all is like, okay, no matter how much money I've got, I'm mortal, right? So, um, >> and but it's also got to be like cross country. I don't think I don't think this is any I don't think national don't think nations have anything particular to do with whatever this >> whatever this pressure is. It's like >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I think I think there's two sides to that though because one is like from a technological point of view.

Um, you know, like there was clearly a very very organized program before the Second World War ended, but the Americans basically got there ducks in a row and we're like, "Right, the Nazis are working on some pretty interesting stuff." And as soon as war ends, we're going in to get it and we're not sharing it. >> Yeah. >> This is going to be a big like a big benefit for us. Um, >> so it could just be the US. It could just be the US.

>> It could in the sense of like technological advantage of like even if you can only like reverse engineer a tiny tiny fraction of something that something could be super useful and could be worth a lot of money. Um >> but and then there's the military side of it. um you know, not just financial, but like if you you've got even if again you're only reverse engineering a tiny fraction or um whatever, but that has some like major military advantage, then that helps secure your kind of power as a as a nation. >> But then >> but then the the interesting thing is the age of disclosure movie. I mean, I was joking when I was watching it to um Venita like, >> you know, it's like 112 minutes.

I reckon they use this term national security 112 times. like it's like every minute there's someone saying it's a matter of national security and like and there and that that's probably just because nearly all the people in the film are from the kind of the military and the intelligence community. >> Um >> but and >> it might also be because the film is a scop and they're trying to get people psyched up about >> associate it with Yeah. national security. Like that's obviously why we're not told about it because it's national security.

>> Yeah. not not um empowerment of uh some sort of elite >> Yeah. thing. Yeah. >> Yeah.

Exactly. But they do say in the film in the context of national security that like the Americans aren't the only people who have programs that are monitoring this stuff trying to recover things. Um, and so there's like one angle of like some people um, basically saying like, "Oh, well, like it's it's like an arms race, you know, it's like the Cold War all over again where it's like it's a race to try and like harness this technology cuz whoever whoever gets it wins cuz if you could harness like some insane amount of energy. Um, that's just on a different, you know, order of magnitude to current technologies. suddenly like you'd have so much military advantage over the rest of the world that nobody would be able to touch you.

Um so that that makes sense. Um but then but then there's also the idea that actually maybe they all just kind of know about it and then maybe they're all talking to each other cuz they're all like what the hell is like we you know we're all kind of out of our depth here and it's a bigger it's a bigger thing than like geopolitics. Well, just imagine I don't think that that I think there's there's too much self-interest in the political class to kind of >> No, but I mean self-interest in the political class being like actually they're all kind of part of the same class, you know, like elite Chinese, elite Russians, >> you know. >> No, I think I think once you get to >> I do think once you get to kind of the billionaire level, you don't feel like you're part of anything. You feel like you're you're a country yourself.

for your sovereign rather than you can do whatever you want. Let let me let's walk through just just just as a thought experiment. I was thinking let's let's walk through like what might have happened like Nazis you take over the there's some Nazi technology in the US. You're probably some division that has a lot of autonomy. You're working in a very black you know maybe there people know about what the hell it is that you're doing.

you probably have a a huge pot of money that you can spend on whatever the hell you want and it's probably really hard to even kill you after you've not kill the program after you've done it because you you're you're you it's like you just invested in a startup um and you can't really kill it. It's like you just given a bunch of people a bunch of money. >> They then go away and discover 0ero point energy just discovered. So there's a group of people now have zero point energy. Would you then go to this kind of leadership that changes all the time cuz it's based upon like politics and democracy? Would you would you even feel yourself that they are your boss and you have to report this back up? >> Or would you go, I seem to now have all the power in the world to do whatever the f I want.

I'm not going to give it to the government. In fact, I'm going to stop anybody else from getting this technology. Full stop. Because if basically if you're the first person to discover 0 point energy, you kind of want no one else to discover 0 point energy. You kind of want to keep it secret, right? Secret's yours and you're desperate for for it not to leak cuz soon as it leaks, your power is diminished.

So then now you've ended up so now you've invested like billions and billions of dollars into this entity that's dying to to discover 0 energy. They discover it and suddenly they have all the power in the world and they then be form their own entity whatever it is and they're cross cross regional. They're not they don't feel affiliated to any particular country. They only feel affiliated to maintaining their own power like everybody in power is affiliated to maintaining their own power. Then they would go out of their way to stop anybody else from discovering the same technology.

M >> they would be the people with the power. If you're asking me like what would Elon Musk's what would Trump be scared of? I think they would be scared of an entity with infinite energy that could spend a gazillion gigawatt to fry your brain. Um just cuz they they might have a button that just they can press they can just kill anybody in the world. >> Yeah. Yeah, you know, with that amount of energy, it kind of gives you this unbel.

So, it has to be somebody or some entity with so much more power than you that even a 100 billionaire is scared shitless and that would have to be that Yeah. Yeah. Cuz at that level, then money doesn't mean anything. And it makes Yeah. But what you're saying is really interesting cuz if you if you brought it out into the open as you say like you'd have so much power initially of like you know revolutionary technology but because it's so abundant would like as soon as it then becomes enters the mainstream the abundance would then effectively like destroy the value of it.

Um know it's just like energy is now just abundant. other people can make these machines and so on and so once you know once people know it's possible then other people start engineering them. >> I mean you could you could also sorry to interrupt you could also you could also argue if I was in that situation you could also argue I I probably rationalize it to myself thinking >> if I gave this technology out they'd all destroy each other Trump would use it for something dumb. >> Yeah. >> Right.

So I'm actually saving the world by making sure that this technology isn't invented by anybody else. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is interesting because one there's an Austrian engineer called Victor Shawberger who I'm I'm quite a fan of and um he he did lots of interesting things and he was particularly focused on like how do we how do we do engineering in the way that nature does engineering was sort of his philosophy and um and he was working on um some sort of vortex energy machine for the Nazis during the Second World War, right? And then at the end of the war basically he got detained by the Americans for they kept him for like I can't remember it was like few months or something but they're trying to figure out like what's he working on cuz they thought it was nuclear and it wasn't nuclear but they didn't understand what it was. Um anyway eventually like they sort of they let him go and um he'd never actually like finished the project.

Um and then he starts getting approached by like American aerospace companies who were offering him lots of money to go to America and like finish developing his technology. And he had two conditions. Um one was that um one was that the technology had to be used for the benefit of humanity and the second was that it had to be done in the open and so that people would know that it exists. and he and he basically said to these companies that approached him like >> it's not about the money, it's about these two things. If you can like sign a contract with me agreeing to these two things, I'll come to America and I'll work with you on it.

Um, and the first few said no, like he was offered the equivalent of like $40 million or something. And he was like, no, if you won't sign these two things, but he was like, why won't they agreed to these two things? And then eventually he gets approached by another like a consortium of like strange characters. [laughter] um again you know related to American uh >> mhm >> aerospace sector who do persuade him that like okay we'll we'll do these things and um come and he was like 80 or something by then um so he went with his son who's also an engineer um just I think cuz he was old and he needed the you know somebody kind of by his side >> and um and he he didn't stay very long cuz he basically was like okay they've agreed to it I'll go and I'll start working on this with them and then he basically something happened where he him and his son Walter got the sense that actually these people were not benevolent and that they and that and essentially >> they realized that while they were looking at this from the point of view this could end all of humanity's like material problems like this this technology if we had like abundant energy not only does it power like >> things that are useful in our daily lives but you can also use it to like clean up the environment and stuff. Um that was sort of one of his visions. >> But um but then he realized that oh my god like you could weaponize it >> and and I think my understanding is like basically he he felt like that was what they were going to do and he said screw that and he he left and he like he didn't live for it.

He like died like a few weeks later or something after he got back to Austria. But um but it's just interesting that like okay these defense contractors were approaching him offering him lots of money and they won't agree to two basic things. It's for the benefit of humanity and it's out in the open. They weren't saying give it he wasn't given away for free. He was just saying it's got to be like publicly known that this is a thing.

>> Um >> so and you know what his technology was exactly is all a bit speculative. Um but you can kind of extrapolate out the pattern and say well that could be true of like other things that are um also offering kind of groundbreaking technology in that kind of way >> that they there might be a >> more power in keeping it under wraps as a sort of a thing that you can use and you have both from an energy point of view but also you can use it from a kind of like just dangle the threat like nuclear like really nuclear weapons are really now like it's the it's The threat of nuclear weapons is the power, not really the use of them. >> Yeah. >> Um, so if you had something more powerful than nuclear weapons, >> you can like, you know, you can do whatever you want. Like the world's your oyster.

>> You don't need to tell people you've got it. Um, you just need the people who you need to influence to give you what you want in life to know that you have extreme power. >> Well, you probably do need to express it in certain ways. You probably need to show >> probably need to show them your unidentified aerial phenomenon that you own, right? To demonstrate to them, you know, maybe maybe maybe the big uh maybe the big shows are all over America recently were them going, "Trump, look what we got." >> Yeah. Well, >> yeah.

I mean, it wasn't just in America. It was in the UK. It was in Germany. It was in the UK. Yeah.

I >> have a feeling there was some weird stuff going on in China. I'm not sure. Right. Okay. Yeah.

So, like the Yeah. And I think that's Well, what's the big lie? >> Um, well, very >> well. Three Atlas is is is kind of I don't know how how true three Atlas is. I was going to really dive into. So, for people like three atlas is a is a is I don't even know.

They they don't even I don't think the word comet is even associated with it because it's not it's not comments are mostly water. Yeah. It's a lot which is extremely weird on many many many fronts. Um and like the the the key things there are some people postulating that it it isn't a comet. It's something else.

It's behaving not in a way that you would expect from an inter interstellar object. It it it's got and I wouldn't say I I've I've I've read both the the pro it's something weird and the the con it's something weird arguments and I would say that the con ones are are compelling arguments but the the thing that keeps on coming back to me is there's so many of these extreme points that have been made like if it was just one point and there there's this other explanation for this one point of why it's outside the mean um but there's nine or 10 things about it that are like really really really odd and you can't explain all of them. I won't go into all of but there's there's like so many weird things about it. Um and I recommend people kind of go into it but um >> one of the theories um I think the weird and I don't know how weird this is but there are arguments that that it's not it's not that weird. I think I think the the weirdest things about it are like they don't seem they just it's not going to be such a wow moment for me to explain it, but it has a really high CO2 to water ratio.

>> Right. Right. [laughter] >> It's like so weird, man. It's crazy. It's crazy.

>> I'm tripping [laughter] tripping out on that. But it's like as in it's like it is ridiculous. It is like I I've got some of the stats here. Um so normally it's about 0 kind of 0.1 or something. 0.2 uh CO2 to water.

This is mostly CO2. >> It's 7.6 times the 7.6 more >> water than CO2. The more CO2 than water, which is like no one's like 63 times higher than anything else we've ever seen. >> Yeah. >> Ever.

>> It's speed is really fast. Huh. >> Is it frozen CO2? So, it's like a solid. >> It's frozen. It's a frozen CO2.

And some of this stuff is they're just they're trying to cuz you can't see it. So we don't know what it is. Um it it's it's brighter than anything else we've ever seen. And it's and it's not it's not it's not exhibiting the kind of increase in brightness that we would normally see. So it's like 17 times brighter than anything else.

And it's like a square it's a square law. So the the closer you get to the sun, the brighter it gets. So 17 times brighter is actually incredibly brighter once you get closer to the sun. than anything else we've ever seen. It's got multiple tails.

So, normally a comet has like tails and the solar wind is pushing it back. This has got multiple tails in different directions, including one going towards the sun. So, imagine you're going towards the sun. There's a tail now going towards the sun. Now, scientists have given arguments as to why this is the case.

Um, it's uh it's kind of outgassing. The heat is like outgassing. Yeah, >> just happens to be towards the sun. Then other people are saying, but it's also rotating and yet this tail is always pointing. These tails are always pointing in the same direction.

>> But the thing is rotating. >> It went behind the sun and when it came out the other side, it was going faster, which is normal. There's like there's like reasons for non it's called non it's more than just the slingshot effect. There's kind of non-gravitational acceleration is what it's called. And it's typically when the heat of the sun has kind of again created another outgassing which pushed it more further away.

>> But it's like it's it's not it's more than anything they've seen before and it's kind of accelerating away in a different way >> and just kind of like where it's got so many little weird and it it landed cuz our solar system has like a plane of the elliptic. So it's kind of like that >> and it's not like the same as the rest of the the galaxy that we're in. It's just h we just happen to be lining up like that. It's come in at that exact plane which is weird like statistically for something >> Yeah. from the somewhere else in the galaxy.

>> That exact plane the that all of our planets are on. >> It somehow managed statistically to come through and just get very close to a number of the planets which is like statistically like really and just plane for that to happen, right? >> You have to be on the plane for it to happen. So I'm just saying like each and every one of these has like a rational explanation but all of them together feels a bit odd. >> Yeah. Um, and one of like the Abby Lo who is like a very not he used to be quite well respected and now he's gone off off the rails which to you and me is like okay.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean he he went off the rails a few years ago. >> I think he still is. I'm not quite sure. Head of astronomy at Harvard.

Harvard, I think. >> I believe. Yeah, I think so. I don't I don't I don't Yeah. Yeah.

So he was like until fairly recently a lot of people said he's like the most respected astronomer in the world >> and then he and then there was this thing I think it was called Mama or something >> and um which was maybe six years a when was it less than another comet or >> it was less than six maybe only like three or four years ago >> um >> which is this other object that came in and and he basically started putting his voice behind the theories that like this doesn't fit the conventional explanation. maybe it's not even like a natural object behaviors it's got. Um >> um and that's when yeah I think that's when people started saying oh he's gone off the rails cuz he started talking about maybe it's a nonhumanmade craft of some kind you know. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but like >> Yeah.

But I mean his theory is and his his theory is is actually is actually um it's not a good alien. His theory his theory always is like from you know the dark forest like once like why do we not see evidence of civilization around in the galaxy if if life is abundant >> and the galaxy's been around for like billions of years. We should be seeing lots of evidence of even not even intentional communication but just you know evidence of civilizations and and and from other other planets. So dark forest hypothesis is there something out there that's killing him off and so his theory is like this is like yeah and this has come from you know so the theory is like if we if we are going to get some sort of interstellar alien it's here to kill us and so that's kind of like his thesis and one thesis is like it it it has kind of like come past and it's and it's and it's look it's zooming out again it's not like hasn't just come and stopped but it it could have like sent off and spit off some like drones phones or subspacecraft or something like that that's coming to us. I mean, if that's I mean, what's the lie? What's the lie? The lie could be like aliens are here.

The lie could be I mean, if let's forget about the dark forest hypothesis does feel like 2027 does feel like something. >> Yeah, >> I know. I mean, I I'm a very imaginative person, so I I I can convince myself of anything. I really want it. >> Anything is wanting.

Yeah, >> I could convince myself that 2027 the aliens who've come from the Atlas are going to land on the Earth and then they're going to lie about something. >> I mean, well, I mean, but we don't know. That's the point, isn't it? It's it's there's weirdness and we we just know what we're told. We can't go up there and check it. So, um it's good to have an open mind.

I I wonder if the lie is something around um it's sort of related some something around like a global threat. Um because there's been various presidents over decades have made speeches where they've basically well not basically they've said out loud um >> that if there was like an alien invasion then that would be like the thing to pull humanity together and even sort of hinted at like you know organizations like the United Nations sort of stepping in to to pull pull everybody together. And they say it in a very nice benevolent kind of way. But but it would also, you know, just in terms of the pattern, I guess there's two things. One, if there was like a if there was an alien invasion that was that was malevolent.

It was it was like dangerous. They the lie might be that they don't tell us the truth because actually then we'll all go completely crazy and everything will fall apart and that would actually be the worst thing in terms of like um because then we'll have no chance of dealing with anything cuz we're all hysterical. Um, yeah. On the other hand, the lie could be that there's we're gonna like basically realize that we're not alone and that there are other beings, >> other intelligent species here and they're going to tell us that they're scary because that's kind of the pattern of governments use like scary things to take away freedoms and and and claim more control. And when I say governments, I mean like, you know, >> elites um and their government friends.

So, um, and I I don't know, but I I'm sort of I'm wary of I'm I'm wary of anything where the news media is like shouting for us to be afraid and and and and with the whole Avi thing, I don't know. like he could be legitimate and he could just be his theory, but then the fact that he's like head of astronomy at Harvard and it was like so well respected and you got this all this weird disclosure thing going on makes me wonder whether he's part of some program to like basically like drip weird stuff out and like you know start amping up the fear just a little bit. I was asking Claude, I was like, Claude, this this this guy feels odd, >> you know? >> Right. So, you felt at Harvard. Yeah.

I felt like I was like, "This feels odd. >> Is this is he just trying to create like noise >> um to kind of distract us from something else?" And Claude Claude Claude Claude uh helped me to he Yeah, he did some they did some analysis with me and it was like because he's been doing this for quite a while. Um yeah, I I I but I don't I don't know if I'm convinced by what that conversation I had with the AI. He was trying to convince me it's not true. I kind of feel that AI is is is like Claude Claude's job is to kind of make me not crazy, make me not go down crazy rabbit holes.

So, I felt like I felt like it did did its job correctly. But yeah, there is something very weird about a guy who has that kind of tenure and that kind of like experience to kind of suddenly go off in this direction. And especially if he's if he is if he is postulating, you're right. if he's postulating that it's a that it's an that it's a dark forest and they're kind of like malevolent. That is kind of a very interesting argument which I just I just find it really odd cuz I don't even think that distance is real.

So the whole you know so like why would an alien why would they just feels weird. I don't I don't really think that that that that's >> well which goes back to this thing from um you know the the age of disclosure where they're they're talking about how this technology might work and you know basically you'd create a a warp bubble that warps time and space and how might it be powered if it's not zero point energy that it might be like quantum entanglement and they're like you're pulling energy from somewhere else in the universe because >> time and space are malleable or on some level don't even exist. So, um, so yeah, why would you send some like big object in to like fly around our solar system when you could just like show up directly? >> Show up. Yeah. [laughter] >> It's a very strange thing.

The only thing that makes sense right now in my head is back to my thesis that there is an entity out there uh not an entity like an organization out there that has discovered 0 energy or or some some some techn technological breakthrough that the UAPs that we're seeing and we're experiencing are ours that we've developed them that they have then created the avi and started kind of seeding kind of like popular culture with this whole idea of alien invasions and then the Abi lobe thing and you know you're right like and you you've said before that there has been discussions of having like using an alien so I brought my first episode using an alien invasion as a false flag operation to centralize into a one world government because who would who would want to have a one world government it would be this secret organization like kind of fed up >> you're kind of fed up with there's so much effort there's 173 the countries around the world, we have to constantly like put all this effort in. If there was just one world government, we could just be in charge of that and we could make the population believe that there's some sort of democratic thing, but we'll we'll just make it just make it easier for us to be in charge of everything if there's one world government. Um, that is probably right now the most plausible explanation for this whole thing, which means we're going to get shut down. I would just like to tell everybody that that that Tom and I are of sound mind. We're both very uh we we're we we don't have any depressive or suicidal thoughts.

We uh we both drive very safe cars. Our our cars are very safe with Teslas. They they they mine saved me through its electronics on the road. I'm very unlikely to to die in a car crash. Uh yeah.

I don't do any dangerous sports. Do you any dangerous sports, Tom? >> I don't do any dangerous sports. >> Dangerous sports. So So we're all >> a very very safe life in general. >> Very safe life.

[laughter] We don't do anything risky. >> Yeah. Uh we're good. Yeah. >> Yeah.

It's um Well, it's an interesting one. Yeah. I think I think there's a lot that we I just think that it would I'm I'm going to just before we wrap up, I'm going to just look at this quote from Halutoff who's Hal Put is one of the weirdest scientists. Um he's been in if if there's something weird in science that he's been involved in it somewhere. he just pops up all over the place.

Um, which on the one hand makes him super interesting. On the other hand, you know, you could be like, "Oh, I don't know about this guy." Um but um but he was he was talking he's in the film Age of Disclosure and and he was talking about like what it would mean um for and and he says that this knowledge is going to filter down into our society to where everyone realizes that the human species is actually in a melting pot of many species throughout the galaxy. What I expect to come out of that is a greater appreciation of what it means to be human. And to me, that kind of change on the human character is probably more significant than what we can learn about atoms and molecules and propulsion systems. And and this is coming from a guy who is, you know, a physicist who is interested in atoms and molecules and propulsion system, but he's also interested in consciousness.

And um and and I think on some level like that's that's super interesting because I feel like a lot of the problems that we face are cultural. When I say cultural, I just mean like like the way we see the world and the way we show up and behave and on a mass scale and and if there is some sort of you know you people worrying about like you know the state of politics and you know social issues and poverty and all these sorts of things. It would be really interesting to see like if we do wake up as he's suggesting and realize we're not alone in the universe. not only we're not learning the universe, but like there's other people here already, you know. Um, like whether that would fundamentally change human culture in some way.

It could be bad. Like it could be chaos, like I said, like we might just go hysterical and think, "Oh my god, the aliens are here." Um, but it could somehow shift us in some other direction where we actually are like, "Oh, you know what? Like, I've been worrying about all the wrong things." You know? >> So, mate, >> you don't think so? >> I don't think I don't think so. So, I don't think we'll get I I I don't I don't think we'd we'd care. I don't think we'd know. I think I think it might make a a a news cycle.

It might become a Tik Tok meme and then we'll just get back to the daily grind of our lives. I don't think it would I don't think it would have the kind of effect. I don't know. I don't know. It's kind of like discovering there's another country in this.

>> Imagine we discovered like Atlantis actually is real and it's been there the whole time. It's just like hidden. >> Yeah. um and we discovered it, it would be like, "Wow, that's really cool, man." Ah, cool. Okay, what we have for dinner tonight? >> What are we having for dinner tonight? >> Yeah.

What What can I buy on Amazon? >> Amazon. I think I think I think it it probably I think I think I think >> I don't know. I think uh I think it's the it's it's it's rather than the knowledge of the alien that they exist. I think it's what I think it's what will manifestly affect everybody's day-to-day lives that would like as in you just a technology I think it's more likely to be like we discover I think the whole argument of zero point is that that we discover this ability for us just to change our lives dramatically that would change everything I think if we all had access to unlimited amounts of energy it would change how we behave how countries wouldn't go to war anymore you wouldn't want to. I don't know.

It feels like that would be more impactful than just the pure knowledge of the >> Well, I think it depends what the knowledge was. I think it it depends on like what this uh like what we become aware of. If you become just aware that there's some other beings there, you can't really see them most of the time and they're just busy doing their own thing, >> then it's kind of easy to ignore. But if but if there's some sort of um more profound understanding that comes with it that these are like they're more intelligent than us and they've they haven't figured it all out but they figured out more than we have not just in terms of technology but in terms of like what really matters in life. >> Um then I think that could have a profound effect on >> like human belief systems and human culture and actually >> mean that we like >> collaborate and get on with each other in >> in very different ways.

I'm not saying exactly what those ways might be, but like like we we're sort of we're all living out the patterns of our childhood, >> but the patterns of our childhood are the patterns of our parents' childhood and their parents' childhood, you know, and it goes on and on and then suddenly you have this like intervention of like, oh, we have some other like we have some >> like some nonhumans with other ways of being um >> to sort of contrast ourselves with that could be like fundamentally >> um >> I mean if they just imagine like culture Wh what if on my street in 2027 there actually is about five lizards and they all [clears throat] come out the front door and they pull up actually thank you I'm just coming out now we're actually we've been here for there's actually loads of us and let me now show you I'm now going to sit here we're going to meditate I'm going to show you how to how to astrally project it's pretty cool skill I do it all the time and you like wa that's cool and then you would like learn this kind of like new way of like being by the way this is how This is how they built the pyramids. In fact, everybody can do it. It's quite easy actually. You just have to sing in a certain tone. [laughter] >> You just have to sing in a triangular formation.

>> Triangular formation and then yeah, the the the granite just melts. It's pretty cool actually. Let me show you. I mean that that that that would be revolutionary and it would be a complete threat to the because anything that changes like the power structures the power that is is it wants to revert to its own maintaining its power structure. I think that's what it is.

So if if the 3A Atlas is is like actually going to send out like nice happy drones it's going to come and show everybody what it's all about. they would want to tell the story that actually so if if the big lie is like 2027 we're going to be there's actually a good thing perhaps that's going to come and the governments are going to say it's a bad thing and so that's actually going to be quite interesting. Yeah. I love Oh god there's so much good stuff here man. You you've destroyed me.

[laughter] >> I I'm going to be I'm going be thinking about this 2027 to find out if I mean there might not be anything. 2027 might be the most uneventful year in history. [gasps] Who knows? >> No, mate. 2027 is going to come along and you and me are going to be on tent hugs for the whole year looking. We're going to be Is this the lie? Is this the lie? >> Is this it? This >> is it this is it this one or is it this one? I think it's this one.

We we but I have to go. Unfortunately, I don't think we we've covered the topic on how this affects sustainability. I think maybe we we did uh >> loosely. We'll leave that open to interpretation. >> Leave it open to interpret as per usual.

>> As per usual. [laughter] [gasps] Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. I've got to go.

Unfortunately, it's been wonderful. This has been a really fascinating conversation. I'd actually happy to chat for another hour, but I probably should be go. >> That's okay. >> Okay.

Catch you later. Bye. Bye.