Frank Znidarsic on Antigravity, Dec. 29-2012

Transcript

I'm Tim Ventura from American Anti-gravity and I'm speaking today with Frank Zidnarik, a pioneer in gravity modification research and one of the early investigators of Pogclanov's rotating disc experiment in the 1990s. Well, Frank, I'd like to start out by asking a bit about your background and how that led you into the experiments with Poganov and NASA in the 1990s. Well, well, thank you Tim for inviting me on your show and it's it's a pleasure to be be here with you and I appreciate your efforts in this area. How I got interested in this work originally is I was a I'm an electrical engineer and I worked in the energy fields. I worked in coal.

I worked in power generation and I saw the environmental damage that was done by these resources and the limited finite nature of these fossil fuels. And I realized as our population increases and our population has become increasingly dependent on uh energy for transportation, for food, for making ammonia, for fertilizers. And I felt there must be a better way to produce energy and possibly get us off the planet to harvest natural resources from beyond the bounds of the earth. And so that's was my motivation. Oh, okay.

Now, this has led you to a new book that you've just published entitled Energy, Cold Fusion, and Anti-gravity. And so that really describes your current research. I'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit about that book and what led you down the path towards writing it. What I was interested in is control of the other forces beyond electromagnetism. Control of the electric and the magnetic field produced this marvelous age that we live in.

And the reason we can use the electromagnetic force that has a convenient range in strength. For instance, if you hold a magnet in your hand, it'll pick up some metal fragments. That magnet also has a gravitational field, but it won't pick up anything because the gravitational force produced by something you can hold in your hand is far too weak. And there did not appear a way to harness that. And that's what I studied.

Is there a way to increase the strength of the local gravitational field? And that's basically what I got in my book, some of my ideas on that subject. You're just referring to the fact that gravity is so many orders of magnitude weaker that the electromagnetic force is right. Yes. Gravity has the same effect as electromagnetism in some ways. It radiates outwards.

It's called a field that diverges outward and it affects uh material things and and electromagnetism reaches out and only affects charged particles. But the gravitational field is 10 to the 39th power weaker than the electromagnetic field. So, we know what to do with the electromagnetic field. We can spin it in the generator to make electricity. Put it in a speaker.

You're hearing my voice through a speaker. There's a magnet in there. We know what to do with that electromagnetism. As a matter of fact, the phone lines that are connecting us up enable this conversation. There's electromagnetism in there.

We can control it. We can vector it. But gravity is so weak that we can't even detect, you know, changes of it unless it involves a mass the of the entire earth. Now imagine a magnet as strong as the entire earth, big as the earth. We'd be like stuck, pulled down with tremendous force.

So gravity's been weak and current theory holds that it will remain weak at all times. Now it sounds like there are a couple of challenges there that one of the big ones is amplifying it, but the other one is coupling to it in the first place. And one of the things that you've really gone towards is graffidtomagnetism as a method of coupling to gravity. Can you tell me a little bit about what that is? How it potentially couples and and what led you to that as a mechanism? Yes. Okay.

Religion has laws ten commandments and you can violate these laws and you you will pay the consequences. Well, science has a similar set of laws are called the conservation laws. The conservation of energy, conservation of momentum. And these laws cannot be violated. You can't violate and pay the consequences later.

They're like impenetrable. And so we have to we have to look within the conservation laws to see what's possible. With electromagnetism, the electric field is very weak. Two, you can rub a balloon on your head and stick it on a wall, but the force is feeble. Or you rub a cloth in amber and it'll pick up some dust, but you can't do much with it.

When you move an electric field, it produces a magnetic field, and that's sort of weak, too. If you got a balloon, rubbed it on your head, then moved it past something, you wouldn't get much magnetism. But magnetism is not a conserved property of the universe. You can get more of it. And so when you have an electromagnet, it's a coil.

It's very weak. But you put some soft iron in that coil and it magnifies the electromagnetism, the magnetic component of it by a factor of 10,000 or more. So that shows us that it is possible to amplify the magnetic component of the electromagnetic field and the magnetic component of all of the force fields are not conserved. And so if we had the right material wouldn't necessarily be soft iron. There should be something out there that may be able to amplify the magnetic component of the gravomagnetic field.

And then we would have a very strong gravidom magnet. It would have the same structure as an electromagnet. It would curl around from one in and out from one pole to another. But it would affect everything not just charged particles. It would it would have an effect on all of matter.

And just as Faraday with his original experiments using uh amber and making a static charge could not predict that the control of electromagnetism will lead us to modern computers. I cannot envision where the control of gravomagnetism will take us but I'm sure it'll be equally as as astounding. Yeah. And and that that explains both the coupling that the choice of gravidom magnetism as well as the amplification because you're saying that since magnetism isn't a conserved force you can make these incredibly large fields but they also couple to gravity and this is an area where I believe there's a lot of ongoing research. Yeah.

Can't have a gravitational shield because if you had a gravitational shield everything above that shield would fly away. So the moon would be above it. would fly away and the whole a galaxy and a billion stars said obviously you made a gravitational shield it better have enough energy in that shield to move about half the universe and that's clearly impossible gravitational shielding is impossible and that's what polyenoff said he had but I think he misinterpreted I think he had a gravom magnetic field and a magnetic field is a local field a magnet will you know pull on stuff for a certain range and it doesn't pull anymore so you only have to put enough energy in a gravom magnetic field to infect the local environment so it's possible I I I think I think he did it. Oh, okay. Well, now speaking of Ponloinoff, I understand that NASA had difficulty replicating his original disc experiment.

And I think that was something that you were part of in some small way, but I understand that they only were able to achieve a small percentage of the rotational speed that he originally claimed to see the effect at. Well, they didn't really replicate his experiment. I I was down there. Uh they invited me to witness their experiment. So, that would be uh Lot Brantley.

I met David Noe ever down there and had some discussions with him and and uh Glenn Robertson. He and I followed through on that and recently published a paper peer-reviewed paper on this. But what Padlenof did was rotated a superconducting disc. It had multiple layers and I'm not sure what the layers had to do with it and he exposed it to a radio frequency wave. They never completed the experiment with exposing the disc to the radio frequency wave.

Now what I found amazing or what interested me was that the frequency of the radio wave and it was about 3 mhertz and the uh diameter of the disc was 1/3 of a meter. So I took the 3 megahertz radio wave multiplied it by 1/3 of a meter and I got a velocity of about 1 million meters/s. I didn't know what it was. I thought I thought that was something interesting. It should be important.

I had that intuition that it was important, but at that time I didn't know what it was and their funding was cut before they could duplicate that portion of the experiment. Now, were you able to find out what that was in the meantime? Well, what what happened about the same time as I went to Anaheim and I saw uh James Patterson in his clean energy technology cell and they were producing energy and this coal fusion experiment had a positive temperature coefficient. means the hotter that it gets the more energy produced. And thermal heat has a uh a vibration to it or frequency to it in the infrared band about 10 the 13 hertz. And also these things were occurring in the domain of about 50 nanometers.

So I multiplied the thermal frequency times the domain side and I got the same velocity 1 million meters/s that I saw in Pod Kletnos experiment. So now we have two vastly different experiments. one involving gravitational modification with the superconductive disc and one involving low-level nuclear reactions that exhibited the same velocity and when I saw that I said there's something going on here felt it was a fundamental importance yeah well what did it end up becoming are you able to talk about that at all oh yes absolutely and that's what I did in my book and uh that has to do with one of the greatest mysteries ever and and that has to do with the quantum lumpiness of the world uh for instance if you're going in your car and you you want to go a little faster faster you push your speedometer, you can go 10 mph faster, 1 m an hour faster, a tenth of a mile an hour faster. If you go to your faucet, you could turn it on full. You could tweak it, tweak it, tweak it, tweak it, any flow you want.

But in this quantum world, it's lumpy. You can only have certain speeds. The electrons orbit the atom in certain speeds. It's like if you're going down in down the road in your car and you push your accelerator and you're going 10, you want to go 15 and you jump to 20. You can't get to 15.

Why? Why does this quantum world have this jump to it? And nobody really knew. Uh plank wondered about this and uh from the very beginning uh why is it jumpy? And and the current train of thought is that the quantum world is the true world and this classical world that we live is only like an illusion and our brain that's wired to understand the classical world. We really can't understand the quantum because it's it'll always be mystical. And I never really believe that. what I saw in these experiments led me to a solution to that problem.

It it sounds like from what you've described, you're really a supporter of the idea, I guess, that Pogletenoff saw something unique and that it wasn't just a a measurement error. Would that be fair to say? Yes, that is definitely fair to say that that I believe he saw something unique, but some of his claims have been extreme that he's doing things faster than the speed of light and he's smashing bricks. and these extreme claims that he's made recently puts a shadow on his credibility. Yeah, that makes sense. But that original experiment, I think that that's kind of the one that you lean towards.

Yes. Well, what I found out is that velocity 1 million meters/s, that is the velocity of sound in the nucleus. And what I did was I set the velocity of sound in the nucleus equal to the velocity of light in the electronic structure of the atom. And that means a mechanical wave equals the speed of an electrical wave. And I got all these quantum jumps.

I got the spectrum of the hydrogen atom from that analysis. From a classical analysis, when I set them two equal, that that equal sign says that the sound of a mechanical wave equals the sound of an electrical wave. And so for those waves to propagate at the same velocity of the forces that mediate them has has to equalize. So during that quantum jump, the gravinoagnetic force acts strongly in it range and the electromagnetic force acts normally and the nuclear forces act at a longer range and at a reduced strength. So I was able to understand the quantum jump and what he's doing when he's spinning this disc, he's putting the whole thing into a state of quantum transition.

But it's very very difficult because he has to induce this velocity of of uh 1 million meters/s in the nuclear structure and sound only propagates at 2,000 meters/s. So to get that vibration going at 1 million meters/s is is quite a trick and and uh I think what they do in cold fusion is they have dissolved hydrogen atoms that they stimulate can drive them. And in Paul Clint's experiment he had light elements like hydrogen. called an optical photon sit there and vibrate and by the radio waves stimulating and they get them all to vibrate together and the wave appeared to move at that frequency. That's what I'm thinking happened.

Oh, okay. Yeah. See, I was going to ask about that next. I was wondering if he was able to stimulate those radio frequencies further if he might be able to get a more pronounced effect. Absolutely.

And and you you hit upon something. See, not everybody uh uses radio waves. uh it's possible to get that stimulation going with shock and and I worked with uh Yuri Potapov we brought him a group of us into Los Alamos and he was using cavitation and cavitation is like hitting something with a sledgehammer and so for that very brief instant you get a very strong impulse that tends to send that wave motion through the solid and so uh that's another way of doing it alo also followed through with his latest experiments with an impulse device where he hit the superconductor with a giant impulse pulse of electromagnetic radiation that induced the wave motion by shock, not just by a radio wave, but there there's other ways to do this. Yeah. And it's possible also that maybe it was the combination of the radio waves and the rotation and all of that that set up a resonance.

Yeah, that's the key. You have to be able to get the atomic structure moving at the same velocity as the velocity of sound in the nucleus. And you have to set a resonance up and you have to get the material just right. And you got to put the external stimulation and and when you do that then some remarkable things start to happen. It's it's a a situation of impedance matching.

If I can explain it uh when an electron jumps from state to state, it emits a single photon. Not a one photon, then a less another one of less intensity, another one another one. If you if you bounce a ball on the floor, it bounces and bounces. You get several bursts of sound until it finally diminishes to nothing. But when one Q ball, one billiard ball hits another, the first one stops and the second one flies away.

All the energy is transferred in one step. So you get one spike of sound. And that's what's happening in the quantum transition. You get that one spike. It's an impedance match system.

And that's why you got to match the velocity of the vibrations in the superconductive structure to the speed of sound in the nucleus. When those two speed matches, it allows a smooth transfer of energy between systems. And the energy flows from the gravitational system to the electromagnetic system, produces nuclear transmutations, and induces under the right conditions a strong getomagnetic field. Oh, okay. It sounds like you might be able to actually make this work without any rotation at all then if you were just able to find what those ultimate resonant frequencies are.

Yes, hopefully you you could. But there there is a lot a lot I don't know. Uh I'm at the very fundamental mentals of it looking at the mathematics. For instance, I have a 1925 radiola radio and I have a Kindle Fire HD. If you look at both of them, they're completely different technology.

One has great big triodes and the other one has little parts you can't even see. But the mathematics that that describes that motion is the same. you and I'm trying to look at the these systems and describe them mathematically, but I don't have the technology quite yet. It's it's it's another step. It's a lot more to do.

The technology could emerge into a new computer someday, but I'm trying to get it into that first step like that very first radio just just to demonstrate something. Yeah. What the reason I asked about that was um I'd spoken to Tony Robertson quite a while ago and he had talked about doing his own research into finding reliable methods to create those the crystal structure in those large diameter YBCO discs that Paul Kletnoff was using. And from what I understand those are really difficult to replicate. It's it's a 12-in disc, but um Robertson had claimed that there was a crystal structure on the inside of it and then the outside of it had a it was structurally a little bit different because the cining process and he'd said that the first few of these that he made, and these aren't cheap to press by any means.

The first few of them broke coming out of the press and then he finally started getting results, but he was having trouble with it, you know, even so. Yes. To get one and spin at that high velocity is quite an accomplishment because it's it's ceramic. It's like a flower pot. Try try spinning a flower pot at 1,000 RPM.

It'll be in pieces before you know it. And also he has layers in there. There's the one layer then another layer. It's not really understood what the layers do. I suspect that it opens up the structure to the stimulation so that it can respond mechanically to the applied electromagnetic radiation.

But I don't really understand that part of it. there's there's a a lot more work to be done. Yeah. Now, in terms of superconductors behaving like kind of microscale quantum particles or going through that quantum transition as you've described, I've read that this behavior or similar behavior is also observed in gas plasmas under certain conditions and I was wondering do you think that a gas plasma device might be possibly replacement for the superconductors that were experimented with in the past? I tried that and I suspect that there is something going on with gas plasmas and the manifestation of it is ball lightning. My father told me when he was a small child, lightning hit the chimney.

At that time they had a cook stove in the kitchen and a ball of lightning came out. Looked like a 25 watt bulb came out of the cook stove and rolled across the floor and rolled out in the yard and went out in the garden and exploded. So there's something really really really strange about these balls of lightning. Where do they get the energy from? I know from an electrical engineer, once you turn the power off and you have a high-speed camera, that that arc is extinguished within tenth of a second or less, it's not much thermal storage in in the air. So, how does that ball of lightning continue to supply energy for seconds or minutes? It might be related, but I don't have enough information, and we don't always see balls of lightning.

They're hard to find. They don't appear naturally in any circuits that we that we have now. Yeah, that's an excellent point that the reason I've asked about the gas plasmas is just because um it seems like that technology might cost less and be easier to manufacture on a large scale. Yes. When I'm presenting my way, many people have different ways.

Ning Lee said that uh we'd spin the nucleons up uh like a centrifuge many more get them spinning really fast the nucleus in each each atom and that would produce the uh gravomagnetic anomaly. I'm saying that if you put the whole state in a state of quantum transition by making the speed of sound in the nucleus equal the speed of sound in the uh the structure that produces the gravido magnetic anomaly. So so so many people have have many ideas and I I think from an outside perspective the verdict still I believe I'm right but I'm sure Ning Lee believes she's right too but how this is going to shake out I don't really know. Okay. I haven't heard anything mentioned about Ning Lee in several years now.

Do you know if she's still actively doing research? I haven't heard anything either, but I'm quite sure if she would have been do if something would have materialized from her work that that would have reached the press. So things like an old soldier slowly fade away. Yeah. If if there's no result. Well, you know, there was another result um by uh Dr.

from Martin Thyimar and he had done a rotation experiment and I believe that they used a marker almost like you you use a chalk mark and a flywheel and they they showed a very very very minute uh what they believed to be kind of a warping of time space that came from that. Have you heard about this experiment at all? Yes, matter of fact I met Martin Tymore at this space and he was there at my presentation. A matter of fact I have my lecture on the web and Martin's introducing me. He's a very nice man and he was uh had cryogenic helium in this uh device and spinning it and and looking for anomalies with this uh optical gyroscope and he detected some very small anomalies but much much larger than would be expected from general relativity but too small to do anything with. And I I asked him did he apply radio waves and try to vibrate this material and he said no.

And uh he was at my lecture there and I don't think that uh he followed my path. He's on his own path and he got so far and I think he's sort of stuck now. He's getting small anomalies but he hasn't done anything useful. Okay. Okay.

So, the radio waves might have an application there as well. And potentially maybe his experiment in a in a negative sense is almost kind of like a proof of concept for the the radio simulation. Yeah. His uh gravitational anomaly is way larger than anything predicted by conventional theory. So, it's it's it's an astounding accomplishment, but it's way too small to do anything useful.

We can't propel the spacecraft off of it. We can barely detect it. So, so, uh, he he's demonstrating a proof of concept, but I I'm not familiar with the latest that he does, but I suspect he hasn't moved beyond that stage. Oh, okay. Okay.

Well, I, you know, one thing I should ask is, do you know if uh the way that you're looking at harnessing gravom magnetism, is this a polarized phenomena? Like, Ning Lee had talked about an AC gravity where you could, you know, you could do push or pull with it. And I I guess one thing I'm wondering is, you know, with with potentially future experiments, do you know if this is something where you would only be able to create an anti-gravity effect or potentially, you know, create a stronger gravitational field as well? I suspect what it's going to do is is sort of like an electromagnetic force. It's going to tend to rotate things like a compass, but it's also going to tend to be expelled. So, it'll be a repulsive force that generates also a twisting motion. uh uh electromagnetism has two positive and negative charge.

Gravity only occurs in one charge. So the uh gravomagnetic field uh would sort of resemble the electromagnetic field of a neutron. It has no charge but it comes out of one and circulates back into the other. Uh and I suspect that that it's generally going to be repulsive so that we could repel off the atmosphere to get into space with the gravido magnetic field. That's the kind of thing I'm looking at.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and you know, that's that's kind of how I envisioned it as well. I I mean, what I've read about superconductors shield quote unquote shielding a magnetic field is obviously there there's no way to shield a magnetic field in the true sense, but what they do is create an equal and opposite field because it induces a current inside and that that has the effect of negating that magnetic field. It it constrains it.

Do do you think that this might do something similar with a gravitational field? Well, well, see, you're getting into dialectrics. You put a dialectric between two plates and it only reduces the strength of the original field. It it can't make any more make any less. But you put iron in the magnetic field and it actually increases the magnetic field. And so if we if we could find the this superconductor is the right stuff, the soft iron equivalent for gravomagnetism, then it would increase the gravomagnetic field and and that field will will look like uh electromagnetic field.

It'll curl around, but it'll have different properties. Uh I know you've done experiments with u your lifter, but the the thing about the lifter is it has to repel off a charged surface. It can't repel off a neutral air. So once it gets away from the charged surface, it's sort of done with lifting. But if you made a gravomagnetic field, it could repel off neutral air molecules and so it could repel off the atmosphere in general and take us into space.

And also Einstein said there's this principle of equivalence. So that inertial mass is equivalent to to gravitational mass. And once we start modifying gravitational mass, we may able we may be able to reduce the inertial mass of a spacecraft and uh propel it promptly to the next star with conventional propulsion. Oh okay. Okay.

Now that's a little more speculative. We have to get the gravo magnetic field before we can do that. But that that that's that's in the land of possibility. Yeah. Yeah.

Now the the other aspect of this is the low energy nuclear reactions or or the cold fusion. And one of the things that you'd indicated was that these same forces that allow you to couple uh gravity and magnetism may allow you to couple into the strong and weak nuclear forces, right? To be able to create these these elements, right? What I suspect's happening is this uh this material is is the soft iron equivalent for gravidom magnetism, but it's also this soft iron equivalent for the strong nuclear force. So it it's this vibrating superconductor is is like soft iron for all the forces and and one of the one of the reasons I suspect this is in cold fusion you get uh nuclear transmutations without producing any radiation and that's it's like a no no everybody that's in the field said this can't possibly happen and it's sort of like you're driving your car or speed bump when you hit that colombic ball potential wall they call it you hit the bump you get a bang and that's the sound wave would be equivalent to the gamma ray coming off. But if you were running blindly and taking big steps and you stepped over the speed bump, you would never know you passed over it. And so if this gravo magnetic force can be amplified and have a longer range than the strong nuclear force, energy can be exchanged without producing radiation.

So that's why I expect that the the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force. That's called the spin orbit force. It's similar in structure again to the gravitational force and the electromagnetic force but it's of nuclear origin but also because it's a magnetic force it is not conserved and I think it's amplified and reaches beyond the colombic and produces uh nuclear transmutations by a long range force wasn't there before. Oh okay. Okay.

So this could be something harnessed to produce. So essentially you'd be producing fusion types of energy except without the radiation. Yes. Yes. What it would do would be sort of like a compass which it's a magnetic force.

You know magnetic force makes your compass flip tend to make nucleus nucleons flip. When you flip them that's a beta decay and it would tend to make things progress on in in in a course of action called beta decay. Then when you get so many beta decays then you'd get an alpha. It would uh allow a new path for nuclear reactions to occur. Just like and when you're hearing the sound from your speaker, if somebody would have built a speaker and not put the soft iron magnet in there, it wouldn't have been any sound.

They put the speaker magnet in that increased the gravitational field, I mean the magnetic force in that speaker by 10,000. And then we we vibrate these superconductive discs that increases the gravitational the excuse me the magnetic component of the strong nuclear force the spin orbit force by a factor of maybe 10 to the 39th power and allows these transmutations to progress smoothly without emitting radiation. Okay. Okay. So that that's yeah I mean these are now what you're see if you look at what we're doing now we're learning how to control all the natural forces.

Everything that we have today is based solely on the control of the electromagnetic force. We have no idea on how to control the gravitational force and the nuclear force. We can well we do we let things fall down. That that's about our limit. And the nuclear force we bang things together but we have no way to control them.

But now that we're understanding the mechanism to control them, it opens up tremendous possibilities for new technology. Yeah, absolutely. Well, does this bring any experiments that come to mind for you? Do you have any experiments that that you've proposed to validate these concepts? I've been doing experiments, but I have a limited budget vibrating with radio waves and uh I really I haven't gotten any anomalous energy or anomalous gravitational effects. But when I was down at the the spa conference, uh this is on the web, I said that we need to use nanometer sizes. And professor Miley then, you can hear it on the lecture, was using crystals as large as he can get it.

And then uh it's becoming more and more apparent that small sizes 50 nanometers to 10 nanometers are the range that has to do with cold fusion experiments and and uh as more researchers are discovering this uh they're getting uh they're getting energy. Miley's now using small nanometer size uh crystals. uh Edward Storms he started using small nanometer sized crystals and that seems to facilitate the reaction. Now Storm says it just it just increases the amount of hydrogen that's absorbed. There's more surface to absorb it.

So you we get a more of an effect. Oh sure. And I I don't believe that's just the conventional thought. I think we have new physics here and the physics requires that size to get the velocity of sound because yeah the resonant frequencies that would produce Right. Right.

Um well now in terms of gravity modification do do you have any experimental ideas there or well one thing we have to do is is uh if we wanted to follow my path is is really figure out how to construct a superconductor that we could get a sound wave going through it at a million meters/s and that would it call something called optical phonons that that's a like a light hydrogen atom that's sort of stuck in there hanging loose so to speak and then have another one hanging loose at a distance away and then put radio waves on to get them moving in concert. So even though those atoms aren't moving at a million meters/s themsself like the water doesn't move at a million doesn't move at the velocity of the wave but the wave motion can be at that frequency and and nobody's nobody's following that leader trying to do that and that's a material science kind of thing and it's very complex. Oh yeah. It requires spe specialized people that may have expertise beyond mine. Yeah.

Yeah. Well and and this is all stuff that you're covering in your book right? Yes. What I what I do in my book is I take this velocity that I've observed in the uh cold fusion and the gravitational anomaly this million meters per second and I produce the energy levels of the hydrogen atom the energy and the frequency of the photon and this thing called the amplitude of harmonic motion which is the intensity of the spectral line some lines are dim some lines are are bright and I do it from a classical analysis that's a start and it says now we understand why atoms jump and they jump at points where the impedance matches and they jump at that means they jump at points where the gravidom magnetism equals the electromagnetism. They jump they have to jump all at once. So, so if you're let's say you're a rabbit and you're going to jump and you had you were a slinky rabbit and then your head was attached by a spring.

That spring would be like gravity. It's weak. So, you jumped to the next line and you jumped and about 10 seconds later here comes your head along the slinky rattling back and forth. Then you have another impact. So if if if electrons jumped like that they would have a emit one photon and then when the second part came they'd have another photon of weaker intensity but everything moves together and there's mechanical waves there's electrical waves and that implies that the gre gtomagnetism equals electromagnetism during the quantum jump and and now that we understand that can we put a an entire system in into a state of quantum jump and as you mentioned a superconductor is a macroscopic quantum system and uh can we put that macroscopic quantum system into a state of transition? And that's what I say.

Yes, we can by vibrating it. Wow. See, and this is amazing, amazing stuff. I'd like to uh thank you for joining us today. We're out of time for today, but I would definitely like to revisit this more with you in the future.

Yes. And keep an eye on the recent advances in cold fusion. I think the cold fusion is going to hit before the uh anti-gravity will, but it's the one and the same technology. There's not a hundred new laws of physics. There's one new law of underlying physics underlying both of these processes.

And when we understand one, it'll it'll facilitate the development in a second. Awesome. Well, thank you again. Okay. Thank you.